[Gimp-developer] Re: New microsoft image format
From: Michael Natterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's already ambivalent to have GIMP running on windows at all, I'm not interested in taking this any further by supporting these formats, and thereby supporting M$. The free software community doesn't get any support from them either. I have designed speed-up improvements for PDF. There is place for an improved format. But I hope the MS's preference is not in copy control, i.e., that their format would be tied to DRM. Now to the quoted text. In my software, I have already thought of using a license which forbids their use in Windows. I don't know the license details yet; perhaps GPL + restriction. The major point is that domestic computers are sold with Windows preinstalled. I have not seen a domestic computer sold both with Windows and Linux, or with Linux only. This is not entirely about what people want: the Windows typically is ripped-down version which comes with ripped-down, bannered versions of software. The system is barely usable as standalone (not usable if you ask my opinion). If GIMP and other major free software could not be used in Windows, domestic users would perhaps ask for other OS. Having piracy laws and copy control improving, would leave people no option than purchase the products for Windows. Then the free software could be a winner. Then the consept that major free software cannot be used in Windows will work. I have played recently with the idea that what if only preinstalled OS is Linux. How many would buy Windows anymore? How many software companies would develop for Linux because everyone would have Linux? Suse Linux costs $70 and Windows $270 -- people would save money too. I have got replies to above that OEM version of Windows costs less, but I call it price dumping, bribing, breaking trade-laws to sell products cheaper in preinstallation context. The computer manufacturers may not get the discount if they dual preinstall both Windows and Linux. How many GIMP users the world has? How many copies are downloaded yearly? What about Photoshop? OEM/bundled versions excluded? Included? Juhana -- http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev for developers of open source graphics software ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: New microsoft image format
Juhana Sadeharju wrote: Now to the quoted text. In my software, I have already thought of using a license which forbids their use in Windows. I don't know the license details yet; perhaps GPL + restriction. Then please refrain from using the GPL at all. Thanks, Michael -- GIMP http://www.gimp.org | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp Wiki http://wiki.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de Plug-ins http://registry.gimp.org | ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: New microsoft image format
On Saturday 03 June 2006 05:49 am, Juhana Sadeharju wrote: Now to the quoted text. In my software, I have already thought of using a license which forbids their use in Windows. I don't know the license details yet; perhaps GPL + restriction. The major point is that domestic computers are sold with Windows preinstalled. I have not seen a domestic computer sold both with Windows and Linux, or with Linux only. This is not entirely about what people want: the Windows typically is ripped-down version which comes with ripped-down, bannered versions of software. The system is barely usable as standalone (not usable if you ask my opinion). Just to stand the point: here they are starting to sell computers with linux only on the low end market. It is a step forward, but smaller than it looks like. Salesperson thenselves offer to install pirated windows versions on these computers for a small fee, for example. On the other hand some of the vendors thenselves make such a crappy install of Linux that no one can handle using it. Linux Magazine Brasil tested a low end machine by HP that came with 128MB RAM and 1GB Swap space. The result: OpenOffice would take full 3 min. to start! And now, leaving this subject and back on what the main thread become: I am just finishing a 4 month course on the GIMP for people wiht little knowledge on computers and little wealth. All of then run Windows , if they have PC's - and if the GIMP did not run on windows, they'd have to be using some other software athome instead of the gimp. But, step by step we are getting there. Regards, JS -- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: New microsoft image format
On Saturday 03 June 2006 08:08, Joao S. O. Bueno Calligaris wrote: On Saturday 03 June 2006 05:49 am, Juhana Sadeharju wrote: Now to the quoted text. In my software, I have already thought of using a license which forbids their use in Windows. I don't know the license details yet; perhaps GPL + restriction. The major point is that domestic computers are sold with Windows preinstalled. I have not seen a domestic computer sold both with Windows and Linux, or with Linux only. This is not entirely about what people want: the Windows typically is ripped-down version which comes with ripped-down, bannered versions of software. The system is barely usable as standalone (not usable if you ask my opinion). Just to stand the point: here they are starting to sell computers with linux only on the low end market. It is a step forward, but smaller than it looks like. Salesperson thenselves offer to install pirated windows versions on these computers for a small fee, for example. On the other hand some of the vendors thenselves make such a crappy install of Linux that no one can handle using it. Linux Magazine Brasil tested a low end machine by HP that came with 128MB RAM and 1GB Swap space. The result: OpenOffice would take full 3 min. to start! Here in the US Wallmart was selling PC's with Linux (Lindows) pre-installed. These were basic entry level machines being sold at very reasonable prices (US $200 2 years ago). I don't know if they are still selling these. In addition HP and Sun has been offering PCs with Linux pre-installed for several years now. In 2000 Linux was installed on about 1.5% of all desktop machines world wide. By 2003 this had grown to 2.8% and some are projecting that it will reach 6% this year and 12% by 2010. Currently the Mac is at about 2.9%. Clearly the use of OSS systems on the desktop is growing at a very rapid pace with desktop market share doubling every 3 to 5 years. If OSS systems like Linux are going to become dominant on the desktop then this will happen because they are over all superior to proprietary systems not because of restrictive licensing. In fact one of the advantages of using OSS systems and software is the fact that restrictive licenses are not the norm. And now, leaving this subject and back on what the main thread become: I am just finishing a 4 month course on the GIMP for people wiht little knowledge on computers and little wealth. All of then run Windows , if they have PC's - and if the GIMP did not run on windows, they'd have to be using some other software athome instead of the gimp. But, step by step we are getting there. Regards, JS -- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: New microsoft image format
On Saturday 03 June 2006 11:49, Juhana Sadeharju wrote: Now to the quoted text. In my software, I have already thought of using a license which forbids their use in Windows. I don't know the license details yet; perhaps GPL + restriction. That would make this software non-free (and non-open-source). Reading from the Free Software Definition ( http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html ): * The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). * The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. That put aside, you are not obliged to take an extra effort to make your software portable to Windows. But if you want it to be free, you need to allow other people to port it there if they desire to. Regards, Shlomi Fish - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ 95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the bottom 5%. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: New microsoft image format
On Saturday 03 June 2006 11:49, Juhana Sadeharju wrote: In my software, I have already thought of using a license which forbids their use in Windows. I don't know the license details yet; perhaps GPL + restriction. You might wish to look at the licensing of the Xara Xtreme software. They have recently Open-Sourced (and GPLed) Linux and Mac versions of their drawing program while maintaining a commercial license on the Windows platform. They were able to do this because they wrote the software and obtain agreements from other contributors before incorporating their contributions into the commercially licensed versions. This hybrid licensing seems to be a reaction to Microsoft's intent to enter the vector graphics drawing program arena and not really anti-Windows motivated. The contributor's agreement can be examined at http://www.xaraxtreme.org/contributor_agreement.html ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
