Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Hi, On 2016-04-05 20:22, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote: Am Freitag, 25. März 2016, 20:34:02 schrieb Jehan: [...] > Lately in IRC I mentioned icon usability tests. Here are the links: > > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-testing/ > http://user-prompt.com/methodology-of-testing-icons/ > > I didn't have time to work out user tests, but at least I want > to give us the chance to optimize our icons for great UX. > Perhaps we find a way for it. As said on IRC, we would welcome these tests, as well as any other UX user testing. I unfortunately really can't make the time myself to construct such tests. But if anyone is interesting and would prepare good and relevant tests about this topic or others, we would review these, and upon validation, I would be in favor of running these (either in events, like LGM for instance, or from the web by making some form advertized through a news on gimp.org…). I'll be at LGM, so if you need a guinea pig to see how people cope with the themes I'd he happy to help. Unfortunately I don't think anyone has prepared any usability tests. Or at least I haven't heard about these. But come say hi anyway! Jehan ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Am Freitag, 25. März 2016, 20:34:02 schrieb Jehan: [...] > > Lately in IRC I mentioned icon usability tests. Here are the links: > > > > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-testing/ > > http://user-prompt.com/methodology-of-testing-icons/ > > > > I didn't have time to work out user tests, but at least I want > > to give us the chance to optimize our icons for great UX. > > Perhaps we find a way for it. > > As said on IRC, we would welcome these tests, as well as any other UX > user testing. I unfortunately really can't make the time myself to > construct such tests. But if anyone is interesting and would prepare > good and relevant tests about this topic or others, we would review > these, and upon validation, I would be in favor of running these (either > in events, like LGM for instance, or from the web by making some form > advertized through a news on gimp.org…). I'll be at LGM, so if you need a guinea pig to see how people cope with the themes I'd he happy to help. > So yes, feel free. :-) > > Jehan Tobias > > Greetings and thanks to all people involved into the theming work. > > > > Sven signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Hi, On 2016-03-23 21:27, Sven Claussner wrote: Hi, I'm also for renaming the current 'Default' to 'System' to point out that this theme aims for integration into the system's look. For theming I'm also for obeying Jimmacs and other designers' advices. They deal with such topics all day which is much more than we devs do, so they are more experienced. Furthermore Jimmac was involved in the icon design. My personal favorite is the Dark theme with the light symbolic icon theme. Many well-known graphics application nowadays have a dark UI, so it can be considered a standard. It's unobtrusive and not distracting. Ok after thinking a bit and reading the comments, I think the dark theme + Symbolic icon theme are the best default, at least what is expected nowaydays in graphics software. I will commit such a change. Lately in IRC I mentioned icon usability tests. Here are the links: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-testing/ http://user-prompt.com/methodology-of-testing-icons/ I didn't have time to work out user tests, but at least I want to give us the chance to optimize our icons for great UX. Perhaps we find a way for it. As said on IRC, we would welcome these tests, as well as any other UX user testing. I unfortunately really can't make the time myself to construct such tests. But if anyone is interesting and would prepare good and relevant tests about this topic or others, we would review these, and upon validation, I would be in favor of running these (either in events, like LGM for instance, or from the web by making some form advertized through a news on gimp.org…). So yes, feel free. :-) Jehan Greetings and thanks to all people involved into the theming work. Sven --- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Hi, I'm also for renaming the current 'Default' to 'System' to point out that this theme aims for integration into the system's look. For theming I'm also for obeying Jimmacs and other designers' advices. They deal with such topics all day which is much more than we devs do, so they are more experienced. Furthermore Jimmac was involved in the icon design. My personal favorite is the Dark theme with the light symbolic icon theme. Many well-known graphics application nowadays have a dark UI, so it can be considered a standard. It's unobtrusive and not distracting. Lately in IRC I mentioned icon usability tests. Here are the links: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-testing/ http://user-prompt.com/methodology-of-testing-icons/ I didn't have time to work out user tests, but at least I want to give us the chance to optimize our icons for great UX. Perhaps we find a way for it. Greetings and thanks to all people involved into the theming work. Sven ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Hi, On 2016-03-22 09:14, Kevin Payne wrote: Well I'm pleased you've re-named them in git because I was about to complain about the names- Darker is a relative term, It's darker than what? Than the Dark? Than the Grey? But you have now established that Darker is darker than Dark! (and Lighter is lighter than Light) and thankfully we don't have to think about localising the names. As you say, the theme defines which symbolic icon-theme to use, and my choice of theme would be the mid-grey (but personally I will modify it to make the text white instead of dark) With the light symbolic icons. As far as a new name for the "Default" theme - I think "System" does the job. And on a side note, I'm not continuing with making pixel-aligned icons because I've been unable to get anyone to communicate a decision about what sizes are the default. Sorry lately I could not make the time to think much on this specific topic. :-/ Jehan --- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Kevin From: gimp-gui-list on behalf of Jehan Sent: 22 March 2016 00:23 To: gimp-gui-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme? Oh one more question! On 2016-03-22 01:21, Jehan wrote: Hello all, Now we have 5 themes in GIMP: lighter, light, gray, dark and darker. The "Default" theme will likely stay since it corresponds to the default theme of your desktop. The "Small" theme will disappear as soon as we have customizable icon size (which should be soon, there is already a working patch, but I have to take the time and improve it before merging). We have a symbolic icon theme in light and dark colors, and a new color icon theme. Hopefully all these should be vectorial in the end, allowing various scaling, while still be pixel-perfect at least for the default size. The original icon theme stays under the name "Legacy". Now for GIMP 2.10, the default icon theme should likely be one of the symbolic themes, since this is the direction where most software are going, and historic GIMP/GNOME icon designer Jimmac really things this is the way to go. So the questions are: 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the light one? 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ limits the possible answers to 2/)? 3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop theme. So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else? Jehan Thanks! Jehan ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Hi, On 2016-03-22 09:42, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 3:21 AM, Jehan wrote: So the questions are: 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the light one? 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ limits the possible answers to 2/)? These questions don't make a lot of sense to me. Light symbolic icon theme doesn't work well with lighter UI themes. Dark symbolic icon theme doesn't work well with darker UI themes. Otherwise the contrast is compromised. Well that's why I explicitly said: "the answer to 1/ limits the possible answers to 2/". Hence if the system/default UI theme is considerably light, you automatically go with the dark icon theme. Yes the alternative is to keep using the "Default/System" theme. But as you note, we would need to know whether this is a light or dark theme. Now there may be a way, but I just can't find it. I am a little lost in all this GTK+ theming thing. We don't want to use light icons on a system light themes, nor dark on dark. So either someone gives me the solution to this, and then I think keeping the system theme is clearly the best solution (at least for Linux distributions. On Windows and OSX, this probably doesn't matter), or we have to choose one of our new themes and make our own default choice, not caring about what how the system theme is configured. Last alternative is of course to keep using color icons (since they go on every shade of grey), but then we go against the opinion of Jimmac and other designers. 3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop theme. So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else? 'System' looks good to me :) Seems most people think "System" is good. I guess I'll rename it this way, then. Jehan --- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
I personally prefer the dark theme with light icons, but I think that a medium gray theme with the classic icons might look more professional and generic. As to the classic theme name, System does sound good to me too. Yeshua -Original Message- From: "Alexandre Prokoudine" Sent: 22/03/2016 10:42 vm. To: "gimp-gui-list" Subject: Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme? On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 3:21 AM, Jehan wrote: > So the questions are: > 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the light > one? > 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ limits the > possible answers to 2/)? These questions don't make a lot of sense to me. Light symbolic icon theme doesn't work well with lighter UI themes. Dark symbolic icon theme doesn't work well with darker UI themes. Otherwise the contrast is compromised. Hence if the system/default UI theme is considerably light, you automatically go with the dark icon theme. > 3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be > renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop theme. > So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else? 'System' looks good to me :) Alex ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 3:21 AM, Jehan wrote: > So the questions are: > 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the light > one? > 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ limits the > possible answers to 2/)? These questions don't make a lot of sense to me. Light symbolic icon theme doesn't work well with lighter UI themes. Dark symbolic icon theme doesn't work well with darker UI themes. Otherwise the contrast is compromised. Hence if the system/default UI theme is considerably light, you automatically go with the dark icon theme. > 3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be > renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop theme. > So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else? 'System' looks good to me :) Alex ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Well I'm pleased you've re-named them in git because I was about to complain about the names- Darker is a relative term, It's darker than what? Than the Dark? Than the Grey? But you have now established that Darker is darker than Dark! (and Lighter is lighter than Light) and thankfully we don't have to think about localising the names. As you say, the theme defines which symbolic icon-theme to use, and my choice of theme would be the mid-grey (but personally I will modify it to make the text white instead of dark) With the light symbolic icons. As far as a new name for the "Default" theme - I think "System" does the job. And on a side note, I'm not continuing with making pixel-aligned icons because I've been unable to get anyone to communicate a decision about what sizes are the default. Kevin From: gimp-gui-list on behalf of Jehan Sent: 22 March 2016 00:23 To: gimp-gui-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme? Oh one more question! On 2016-03-22 01:21, Jehan wrote: > Hello all, > > Now we have 5 themes in GIMP: lighter, light, gray, dark and darker. > The "Default" theme will likely stay since it corresponds to the > default theme of your desktop. > The "Small" theme will disappear as soon as we have customizable icon > size (which should be soon, there is already a working patch, but I > have to take the time and improve it before merging). > > We have a symbolic icon theme in light and dark colors, and a new > color icon theme. Hopefully all these should be vectorial in the end, > allowing various scaling, while still be pixel-perfect at least for > the default size. > The original icon theme stays under the name "Legacy". > > Now for GIMP 2.10, the default icon theme should likely be one of the > symbolic themes, since this is the direction where most software are > going, and historic GIMP/GNOME icon designer Jimmac really things this > is the way to go. > > So the questions are: > 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the > light one? > 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ > limits the possible answers to 2/)? 3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop theme. So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else? Jehan > Thanks! > > Jehan ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
I would opt for the dark theme to be the default, personally. On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 7:26 PM Jehan wrote: > Oh one more question! > > On 2016-03-22 01:21, Jehan wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > Now we have 5 themes in GIMP: lighter, light, gray, dark and darker. > > The "Default" theme will likely stay since it corresponds to the > > default theme of your desktop. > > The "Small" theme will disappear as soon as we have customizable icon > > size (which should be soon, there is already a working patch, but I > > have to take the time and improve it before merging). > > > > We have a symbolic icon theme in light and dark colors, and a new > > color icon theme. Hopefully all these should be vectorial in the end, > > allowing various scaling, while still be pixel-perfect at least for > > the default size. > > The original icon theme stays under the name "Legacy". > > > > Now for GIMP 2.10, the default icon theme should likely be one of the > > symbolic themes, since this is the direction where most software are > > going, and historic GIMP/GNOME icon designer Jimmac really things this > > is the way to go. > > > > So the questions are: > > 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the > > light one? > > 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ > > limits the possible answers to 2/)? > > 3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be > renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop > theme. So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else? > > Jehan > > > Thanks! > > > > Jehan > ___ > gimp-gui-list mailing list > gimp-gui-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list > -- Pat David https://pixls.us http://blog.patdavid.net ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Oh one more question! On 2016-03-22 01:21, Jehan wrote: Hello all, Now we have 5 themes in GIMP: lighter, light, gray, dark and darker. The "Default" theme will likely stay since it corresponds to the default theme of your desktop. The "Small" theme will disappear as soon as we have customizable icon size (which should be soon, there is already a working patch, but I have to take the time and improve it before merging). We have a symbolic icon theme in light and dark colors, and a new color icon theme. Hopefully all these should be vectorial in the end, allowing various scaling, while still be pixel-perfect at least for the default size. The original icon theme stays under the name "Legacy". Now for GIMP 2.10, the default icon theme should likely be one of the symbolic themes, since this is the direction where most software are going, and historic GIMP/GNOME icon designer Jimmac really things this is the way to go. So the questions are: 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the light one? 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ limits the possible answers to 2/)? 3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop theme. So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else? Jehan Thanks! Jehan ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
[Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?
Hello all, Now we have 5 themes in GIMP: lighter, light, gray, dark and darker. The "Default" theme will likely stay since it corresponds to the default theme of your desktop. The "Small" theme will disappear as soon as we have customizable icon size (which should be soon, there is already a working patch, but I have to take the time and improve it before merging). We have a symbolic icon theme in light and dark colors, and a new color icon theme. Hopefully all these should be vectorial in the end, allowing various scaling, while still be pixel-perfect at least for the default size. The original icon theme stays under the name "Legacy". Now for GIMP 2.10, the default icon theme should likely be one of the symbolic themes, since this is the direction where most software are going, and historic GIMP/GNOME icon designer Jimmac really things this is the way to go. So the questions are: 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the light one? 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ limits the possible answers to 2/)? Thanks! Jehan -- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot ___ gimp-gui-list mailing list gimp-gui-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
