Re: [GNC] Reorganize Trading accounts
On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 12:49:29 -0400 King Mak wrote: > Hi, > > I have just acquired a new computer. I moved all my gnucash files to > the new computer by copy-paste. But when I open my accounting files > in the new computer, I notice that some of the transactions are > missing . What do I do? start a new thread here after doing your basic checks on file sizes etc. Liz ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Reorganize Trading accounts
On 4/24/2023 4:24 PM, R Losey wrote: If you have a trust (I assume that it is for someone else), a business, and personal accounts, why not just have three separate books? Not necessarily. From the description, probably only one tax ID. I am guessing the trust might be a revocable trust (we have one for estate planning). As long as you are still alive, it isn't that separate from yourself (because revocable) and only used so the property in it at time of death ISN'T considered part of your estate for will/probate purposes (and will follow its own rules**). Because in this state, the amount of an estate that can use simple, not formal probate is small, almost all of our property (including all but small bank accounts) is technically owned by the trust. However -- even when a business is really just yourself, I would be inclined for it to have its own books. Especially if it is a business you might sell << you would be showing a potential buyer its books, but why show them your personal books >> Michael D Novack ** Probably dumping whatever is in it to a second trust that will distribute to heirs and other beneficiaries. But that second trust needs no books now (it is currently empty) and things like getting a tax ID, keeping books, filing reports, etc. will be whoever you have designated as trustee(s). ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Reorganize Trading accounts
If you have a trust (I assume that it is for someone else), a business, and personal accounts, why not just have three separate books? On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 1:37 AM Fred Tydeman wrote: > When I first setup my file, all of the investments / securities were > organized by type: > Cash-US > Cash-International > Bonds-US > Bonds-International > Stock-US > Stock-International > RealEstate-US > RealEstate-International > > Sometime later, I learned about Trading accounts, so turned on that > feature. I noticed that the Trading accounts mirrored the Securities > organization. > > However, with my initial setup, I am finding it difficult to produce > some reports. So, I am thinking of redoing my chart of accounts. > > I have a business, a trust, and my personal items. Both the business > and the trust are passthru items for income tax purposes. So, for a > tax report or a net worth report, it would be best if all three were > in the same file. But, for balance sheet or income statement, it would > be best if the business and trust were each in their own file. > > The problem is some Trading accounts are a mixture of transactions from > personal, business, and/or trust. I need to seperate them so I can do > correct balance sheets. > > So, I am thinking of three sub-accounts: > Personal > Business > Trust > under each of: > Assets > Liabilities > Equity > Income > Expenses > Trading > > That way, it is easy to pick subsets of accounts (and their children) > for the balance sheet or income statement reports. > > Can I redo the Trading accounts setup and still have things work OK? > Do I also need to redo how the securities are organized? > > Aside: It is possible for the same security to end up in: > Personal - taxable > Personal - tax deferred (regular IRA) > Personal - tax free (Roth IRA) > Trust - taxable > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Reorganize Trading accounts
It might be easier at this time to keep separate books and then export and manipulate further in a spreadsheet for the combined reports. (while I understand some reports can be either consolidated or separate, the fact that you need separate Balance Sheet Reports tells me the books should be separate) Maybe when/if some sort of tag/category ability is added to the Balance Sheet & Income Statement report (like the Transaction Report regex filter) then you can have a consolidated book filtering those reports for the type of transaction (Personal, Business, Trust) Alternatively, since the Transaction Report has this ability, you could maybe get close enough using it and then finish that off in a spreadsheet and keep the consolidated book as-is, save having to go back and 'tag' all of your existing transactions in either Description, Notes, or Memos. (you could also do separate Find operations based on those tags and then export those results as an Account Report for different sections of the Balance Sheet & Income Statement) I think your proposed alternative of replicating accounts can also work as there are some folks using that method for managing projects and properties. Only you can decide based on your circumstances how much work that will be to set up and then maintain and work with. Regards, Adrien On 4/23/23 1:36 AM, Fred Tydeman wrote: I have a business, a trust, and my personal items. Both the business and the trust are passthru items for income tax purposes. So, for a tax report or a net worth report, it would be best if all three were in the same file. But, for balance sheet or income statement, it would be best if the business and trust were each in their own file. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Reorganize Trading accounts
Most people would have separate books for a business and for personal, possibly also the trust, if it has its own Tax ID (at least in the US). Alex On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 9:00 AM wrote: > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Fred Tydeman > To: Gnucash Users > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 09:36:29 +0300 > Subject: [GNC] Reorganize Trading accounts > When I first setup my file, all of the investments / securities were > organized by type: > Cash-US > Cash-International > Bonds-US > Bonds-International > Stock-US > Stock-International > RealEstate-US > RealEstate-International > > Sometime later, I learned about Trading accounts, so turned on that > feature. I noticed that the Trading accounts mirrored the Securities > organization. > > However, with my initial setup, I am finding it difficult to produce > some reports. So, I am thinking of redoing my chart of accounts. > > I have a business, a trust, and my personal items. Both the business > and the trust are passthru items for income tax purposes. So, for a > tax report or a net worth report, it would be best if all three were > in the same file. But, for balance sheet or income statement, it would > be best if the business and trust were each in their own file. > > The problem is some Trading accounts are a mixture of transactions from > personal, business, and/or trust. I need to seperate them so I can do > correct balance sheets. > > So, I am thinking of three sub-accounts: > Personal > Business > Trust > under each of: > Assets > Liabilities > Equity > Income > Expenses > Trading > > That way, it is easy to pick subsets of accounts (and their children) > for the balance sheet or income statement reports. > > Can I redo the Trading accounts setup and still have things work OK? > Do I also need to redo how the securities are organized? > > Aside: It is possible for the same security to end up in: > Personal - taxable > Personal - tax deferred (regular IRA) > Personal - tax free (Roth IRA) > Trust - taxable > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Reorganize Trading accounts
Hi, I have just acquired a new computer. I moved all my gnucash files to the new computer by copy-paste. But when I open my accounting files in the new computer, I notice that some of the transactions are missing . What do I do? On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 2:37 AM Fred Tydeman wrote: > When I first setup my file, all of the investments / securities were > organized by type: > Cash-US > Cash-International > Bonds-US > Bonds-International > Stock-US > Stock-International > RealEstate-US > RealEstate-International > > Sometime later, I learned about Trading accounts, so turned on that > feature. I noticed that the Trading accounts mirrored the Securities > organization. > > However, with my initial setup, I am finding it difficult to produce > some reports. So, I am thinking of redoing my chart of accounts. > > I have a business, a trust, and my personal items. Both the business > and the trust are passthru items for income tax purposes. So, for a > tax report or a net worth report, it would be best if all three were > in the same file. But, for balance sheet or income statement, it would > be best if the business and trust were each in their own file. > > The problem is some Trading accounts are a mixture of transactions from > personal, business, and/or trust. I need to seperate them so I can do > correct balance sheets. > > So, I am thinking of three sub-accounts: > Personal > Business > Trust > under each of: > Assets > Liabilities > Equity > Income > Expenses > Trading > > That way, it is easy to pick subsets of accounts (and their children) > for the balance sheet or income statement reports. > > Can I redo the Trading accounts setup and still have things work OK? > Do I also need to redo how the securities are organized? > > Aside: It is possible for the same security to end up in: > Personal - taxable > Personal - tax deferred (regular IRA) > Personal - tax free (Roth IRA) > Trust - taxable > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- *Dr. Polycarpe N. Makinga* MD., Dip Obst., Dip HIV Man., Adv Cert Health Mangt., MPH., MMed (FamMed) Mobile: +1 438 2278912 Fax: +27 86 512 4653 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Reorganize Trading accounts
When I first setup my file, all of the investments / securities were organized by type: Cash-US Cash-International Bonds-US Bonds-International Stock-US Stock-International RealEstate-US RealEstate-International Sometime later, I learned about Trading accounts, so turned on that feature. I noticed that the Trading accounts mirrored the Securities organization. However, with my initial setup, I am finding it difficult to produce some reports. So, I am thinking of redoing my chart of accounts. I have a business, a trust, and my personal items. Both the business and the trust are passthru items for income tax purposes. So, for a tax report or a net worth report, it would be best if all three were in the same file. But, for balance sheet or income statement, it would be best if the business and trust were each in their own file. The problem is some Trading accounts are a mixture of transactions from personal, business, and/or trust. I need to seperate them so I can do correct balance sheets. So, I am thinking of three sub-accounts: Personal Business Trust under each of: Assets Liabilities Equity Income Expenses Trading That way, it is easy to pick subsets of accounts (and their children) for the balance sheet or income statement reports. Can I redo the Trading accounts setup and still have things work OK? Do I also need to redo how the securities are organized? Aside: It is possible for the same security to end up in: Personal - taxable Personal - tax deferred (regular IRA) Personal - tax free (Roth IRA) Trust - taxable ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
Maybe, because it's all we've got for differentiating two securities with the same symbol. Regards, John Ralls > On Apr 22, 2023, at 1:20 AM, Fred Tydeman wrote: > > Is there a relationship between Security Namespaces and Trading accounts? > If I change which Namespace a security is in, should that affect a Trading > account? > > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 11:29 PM john <mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us>> wrote: >> No, the naming scheme is hard-coded. Ralf Habacker made a start at removing >> name dependencies but got it working only for opening balance accounts. >> >> Regards, >> John Ralls >> >> > On Apr 21, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Fred Tydeman > > <mailto:tydeman.f...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > Can Trading accounts be moved around? >> > That is, given a new parent. >> > ___ >> > gnucash-user mailing list >> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > - >> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
Is there a relationship between Security Namespaces and Trading accounts? If I change which Namespace a security is in, should that affect a Trading account? On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 11:29 PM john wrote: > No, the naming scheme is hard-coded. Ralf Habacker made a start at > removing name dependencies but got it working only for opening balance > accounts. > > Regards, > John Ralls > > > On Apr 21, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Fred Tydeman > wrote: > > > > Can Trading accounts be moved around? > > That is, given a new parent. > > ___ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > - > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
No, the naming scheme is hard-coded. Ralf Habacker made a start at removing name dependencies but got it working only for opening balance accounts. Regards, John Ralls > On Apr 21, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Fred Tydeman wrote: > > Can Trading accounts be moved around? > That is, given a new parent. > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Trading accounts
Can Trading accounts be moved around? That is, given a new parent. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
This is one side of the story. For another view of things you might take a look at https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html. You could also look at https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html which is outdated but still might be useful. If you want to fix things by adding trading account splits where needed you could use the "Check and Repair" commands in the Actions menu. If Trading Accounts are turned on these commands should add the splits where required. I would certainly make a backup copy before trying this. Mike On 26 Jul 2022, at 20:39, David Carlson wrote: I forgot to address fixing the mess. I think there are two ways to fix it. The easiest is to restore your last backup from before turning on TA's. The other, iirc, is to manually delete all those TA's. On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 7:24 PM wrote: Fred, Not early in the guide, but in the section dealing with multiple currencies https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/currency_trading_accts.html and discussed on the wiki (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Trading_Accounts). I don't think anyone has yet written anything about any application to trading stocks and I don't think they are intended to be applied there. It is recommended to read the guide and help manual fully before using GnuCash. I didn't, like many other users, but I did have a general accounting background coming in. You will find a lot of discussion in the mailing list archives re stock trading and unrealized gains and losses.. If they were mentioned earlier it is likely they would confuse new users with limited experience of double entry accounting and accounting practice. It is a compromise to get new users in the door. Trading counts are about providing information in the accounts for unrealized gains and losses involving currency transactions. It is not normal accounting practice to recognize unrealized gains or losses in the books as income/expenses and the circumstances under which they may be recognized in some jurisdictions are likely to be highly variable. They are not normally taxable until the gains are actually realized in the majority of jurisdictions. That is why they aren't a default option. I wouldn't think there is any need to redo past transactions unless the information re unrealized gains and losses through currency exchange transactions is necessary for some specific reporting process. David Cousens On Tue, 2022-07-26 at 18:46 -0400, Fred Tydeman wrote: Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. Besides normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe that my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other assets whose value varies) were done wrong. Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
Geoff, Changing values of reconciled transactions without notice renders a book completely unreliable for any accounting purpose. If that's not evil, what is? David T. On July 27, 2022 2:46:34 PM GMT+03:00, Geoff wrote: >Lots. > >(And they aren't really evil, just wilful). > >;--)) > >Geoff >= > >On 27/07/2022 8:36 pm, David Carlson wrote: >> This has confused me. Is the recent thread titled " >> [GNC] Evil Lots Behavior" about lots or trading accounts? >> >> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:10 AM David T. wrote: >> >>> David C. >>> >>> Trading accounts are not the same as lots. Different concept, different >>> code. Just a for instance: trading accounts are turned on by book; lots can >>> be enabled by account. >>> >>> David T. >>> >>> On July 27, 2022 3:33:37 AM GMT+03:00, David Carlson < >>> david.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I believe that you are witnessing first hand why trading accounts are not >>>> enabled by default, i.e. they create a royal mess in your trading history. >>>> >>>> You might want to re-read the recent thread about evil trading accounts. >>>> They may work ok for some users who's documentation goals align with the >>>> design parameters of TA's. >>>> >>>> Other users will prefer to continue either manually tracking lots in >>>> external spreadsheets or trusting their brokers back rooms to do it for >>>> them. >>>> >>>> Oh, I am neither a developer nor an accountant, just a long term user. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 5:47 PM Fred Tydeman wrote: >>>> >>>> Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into >>>>> GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. >>>>> Besides >>>>> normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and >>>>> many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" >>>>> accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading >>>>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe >>>>> that >>>>> my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other >>>>> assets whose value varies) were done wrong. >>>>> >>>>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? >>>>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? >>>>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price >>>>> varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. >>>>> >>>>> Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? >>>>> >>>>> Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial >>>>> early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. >>>>> >>>>> What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? >>>>> -- >>>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>>>> -- >>>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>>> -- >>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>>> >>>> >> ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
The thread I started, with the title "Evil Lots Behavior" was about the Gnucash *Lots* feature, which is designed to "assist" users in the management of individual lots of stock and mutual fund shares. (For the record, the lots feature will change reconciled gains transactions without notification, something I believe to be a dangerous bug...) You suggested that the OP consult that thread. I'm saying it's not the same problem, and the ELB thread has nothing to do with trading accounts. David T. On July 27, 2022 2:46:34 PM GMT+03:00, Geoff wrote: >Lots. > >(And they aren't really evil, just wilful). > >;--)) > >Geoff >= > >On 27/07/2022 8:36 pm, David Carlson wrote: >> This has confused me. Is the recent thread titled " >> [GNC] Evil Lots Behavior" about lots or trading accounts? >> >> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:10 AM David T. wrote: >> >>> David C. >>> >>> Trading accounts are not the same as lots. Different concept, different >>> code. Just a for instance: trading accounts are turned on by book; lots can >>> be enabled by account. >>> >>> David T. >>> >>> On July 27, 2022 3:33:37 AM GMT+03:00, David Carlson < >>> david.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I believe that you are witnessing first hand why trading accounts are not >>>> enabled by default, i.e. they create a royal mess in your trading history. >>>> >>>> You might want to re-read the recent thread about evil trading accounts. >>>> They may work ok for some users who's documentation goals align with the >>>> design parameters of TA's. >>>> >>>> Other users will prefer to continue either manually tracking lots in >>>> external spreadsheets or trusting their brokers back rooms to do it for >>>> them. >>>> >>>> Oh, I am neither a developer nor an accountant, just a long term user. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 5:47 PM Fred Tydeman wrote: >>>> >>>> Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into >>>>> GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. >>>>> Besides >>>>> normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and >>>>> many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" >>>>> accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading >>>>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe >>>>> that >>>>> my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other >>>>> assets whose value varies) were done wrong. >>>>> >>>>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? >>>>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? >>>>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price >>>>> varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. >>>>> >>>>> Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? >>>>> >>>>> Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial >>>>> early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. >>>>> >>>>> What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? >>>>> -- >>>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>>>> -- >>>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>>> -- >>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>>> >>>> >> ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
Lots. (And they aren't really evil, just wilful). ;--)) Geoff = On 27/07/2022 8:36 pm, David Carlson wrote: This has confused me. Is the recent thread titled " [GNC] Evil Lots Behavior" about lots or trading accounts? On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:10 AM David T. wrote: David C. Trading accounts are not the same as lots. Different concept, different code. Just a for instance: trading accounts are turned on by book; lots can be enabled by account. David T. On July 27, 2022 3:33:37 AM GMT+03:00, David Carlson < david.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: I believe that you are witnessing first hand why trading accounts are not enabled by default, i.e. they create a royal mess in your trading history. You might want to re-read the recent thread about evil trading accounts. They may work ok for some users who's documentation goals align with the design parameters of TA's. Other users will prefer to continue either manually tracking lots in external spreadsheets or trusting their brokers back rooms to do it for them. Oh, I am neither a developer nor an accountant, just a long term user. On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 5:47 PM Fred Tydeman wrote: Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. Besides normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe that my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other assets whose value varies) were done wrong. Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? -- gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. -- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -- gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. -- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
This has confused me. Is the recent thread titled " [GNC] Evil Lots Behavior" about lots or trading accounts? On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:10 AM David T. wrote: > David C. > > Trading accounts are not the same as lots. Different concept, different > code. Just a for instance: trading accounts are turned on by book; lots can > be enabled by account. > > David T. > > On July 27, 2022 3:33:37 AM GMT+03:00, David Carlson < > david.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I believe that you are witnessing first hand why trading accounts are not >> enabled by default, i.e. they create a royal mess in your trading history. >> >> You might want to re-read the recent thread about evil trading accounts. >> They may work ok for some users who's documentation goals align with the >> design parameters of TA's. >> >> Other users will prefer to continue either manually tracking lots in >> external spreadsheets or trusting their brokers back rooms to do it for >> them. >> >> Oh, I am neither a developer nor an accountant, just a long term user. >> >> On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 5:47 PM Fred Tydeman wrote: >> >> Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into >>> GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. Besides >>> normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and >>> many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" >>> accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading >>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe that >>> my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other >>> assets whose value varies) were done wrong. >>> >>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? >>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? >>> Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price >>> varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. >>> >>> Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? >>> >>> Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial >>> early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. >>> >>> What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? >>> -- >>> gnucash-user mailing list >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>> -- >>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> >>> -- >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> -- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >> -- David Carlson ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
David C. Trading accounts are not the same as lots. Different concept, different code. Just a for instance: trading accounts are turned on by book; lots can be enabled by account. David T. On July 27, 2022 3:33:37 AM GMT+03:00, David Carlson wrote: >I believe that you are witnessing first hand why trading accounts are not >enabled by default, i.e. they create a royal mess in your trading history. > >You might want to re-read the recent thread about evil trading accounts. > They may work ok for some users who's documentation goals align with the >design parameters of TA's. > >Other users will prefer to continue either manually tracking lots in >external spreadsheets or trusting their brokers back rooms to do it for >them. > >Oh, I am neither a developer nor an accountant, just a long term user. > >On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 5:47 PM Fred Tydeman wrote: > >> Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into >> GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. Besides >> normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and >> many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" >> accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading >> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe that >> my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other >> assets whose value varies) were done wrong. >> >> Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? >> Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? >> Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price >> varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. >> >> Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? >> >> Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial >> early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. >> >> What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? >> ___ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> - >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >___ >gnucash-user mailing list >gnucash-user@gnucash.org >To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >- >Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
I forgot to address fixing the mess. I think there are two ways to fix it. The easiest is to restore your last backup from before turning on TA's. The other, iirc, is to manually delete all those TA's. On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 7:24 PM wrote: > Fred, > > Not early in the guide, but in the section dealing with multiple currencies > https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/currency_trading_accts.html > and > discussed on the wiki (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Trading_Accounts). > > I don't think anyone has yet written anything about any application to > trading > stocks and I don't think they are intended to be applied there. > > It is recommended to read the guide and help manual fully before using > GnuCash. > I didn't, like many other users, but I did have a general accounting > background > coming in. You will find a lot of discussion in the mailing list archives > re > stock trading and unrealized gains and losses.. > > If they were mentioned earlier it is likely they would confuse new users > with > limited experience of double entry accounting and accounting practice. It > is a > compromise to get new users in the door. > > Trading counts are about providing information in the accounts for > unrealized > gains and losses involving currency transactions. > > It is not normal accounting practice to recognize unrealized gains or > losses in > the books as income/expenses and the circumstances under which they may be > recognized in some jurisdictions are likely to be highly variable. They > are not > normally taxable until the gains are actually realized in the majority of > jurisdictions. That is why they aren't a default option. > > I wouldn't think there is any need to redo past transactions unless the > information re unrealized gains and losses through currency exchange > transactions is necessary for some specific reporting process. > > David Cousens > > On Tue, 2022-07-26 at 18:46 -0400, Fred Tydeman wrote: > > Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into > > GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. > Besides > > normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and > > many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" > > accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading > > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe > that > > my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other > > assets whose value varies) were done wrong. > > > > Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? > > Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? > > Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price > > varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. > > > > Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? > > > > Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial > > early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. > > > > > What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? > > > > ___ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > > - > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
I believe that you are witnessing first hand why trading accounts are not enabled by default, i.e. they create a royal mess in your trading history. You might want to re-read the recent thread about evil trading accounts. They may work ok for some users who's documentation goals align with the design parameters of TA's. Other users will prefer to continue either manually tracking lots in external spreadsheets or trusting their brokers back rooms to do it for them. Oh, I am neither a developer nor an accountant, just a long term user. On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 5:47 PM Fred Tydeman wrote: > Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into > GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. Besides > normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and > many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" > accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe that > my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other > assets whose value varies) were done wrong. > > Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? > Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? > Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price > varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. > > Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? > > Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial > early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. > > What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts
Fred, Not early in the guide, but in the section dealing with multiple currencies https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/currency_trading_accts.html and discussed on the wiki (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Trading_Accounts). I don't think anyone has yet written anything about any application to trading stocks and I don't think they are intended to be applied there. It is recommended to read the guide and help manual fully before using GnuCash. I didn't, like many other users, but I did have a general accounting background coming in. You will find a lot of discussion in the mailing list archives re stock trading and unrealized gains and losses.. If they were mentioned earlier it is likely they would confuse new users with limited experience of double entry accounting and accounting practice. It is a compromise to get new users in the door. Trading counts are about providing information in the accounts for unrealized gains and losses involving currency transactions. It is not normal accounting practice to recognize unrealized gains or losses in the books as income/expenses and the circumstances under which they may be recognized in some jurisdictions are likely to be highly variable. They are not normally taxable until the gains are actually realized in the majority of jurisdictions. That is why they aren't a default option. I wouldn't think there is any need to redo past transactions unless the information re unrealized gains and losses through currency exchange transactions is necessary for some specific reporting process. David Cousens On Tue, 2022-07-26 at 18:46 -0400, Fred Tydeman wrote: > Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into > GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. Besides > normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and > many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" > accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe that > my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other > assets whose value varies) were done wrong. > > Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? > Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? > Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price > varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. > > Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? > > Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial > early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. > > What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Trading accounts
Over the past several months, I have been importing Quicken data into GnuCash. There is about 6 years of data and lots of transactions. Besides normal income and expenses, that data involved many different stocks and many different currencies. Recently, I saw a reference to "Trading" accounts. I have now enabled that feature. Based on reading https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial, I believe that my old transactions that involve currencies (and maybe stocks and other assets whose value varies) were done wrong. Do I need to redo old transactions involving currencies? Do I need to redo old transactions involving stocks? Do I need to redo old transactions involving any assets whose price varies? This probably depends upon the asset, eg. no for Real Estate. Is there an easy way to fix the mess I have created? Aside: I do not recall any mention of trading accounts in the Tutorial early on when it talked about setting up the Chart of Accounts. What is the reason that Trading accounts are not turned on by default? ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts
OK no problem – does the developer community see the same error I get? Part of the bug description looks similar. But this is what I have right now. [cid:image001.png@01D76B61.848D6E20] Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: D.<mailto:sunfis...@yahoo.com> Sent: 27 June 2021 12:45 To: David H<mailto:hell...@gmail.com> Cc: Michael via gnucash-user<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>; Public Address<mailto:public.addr...@hotmail.co.uk> Subject: Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts My apologies. I was remembering a different thread and bug from the same time frame. Original Message From: "D. via gnucash-user" Sent: Sun Jun 27 07:42:45 EDT 2021 To: David H Cc: Michael via gnucash-user , Public Address Subject: Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts This may or may not be the same problem as in the earlier issue. The earlier issue concerned accounts created in Equity erroneously, not Trading. The (mis-) creation of trading accounts in different tree structures sounds like a different but related problem. Perhaps the fix implemented there will work for this as well, but then again, maybe not. Original Message From: David H Sent: Sun Jun 27 03:55:29 EDT 2021 To: Public Address Cc: "gnucash-user@gnucash.org" Subject: Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts I think this is a known bug discussed/reported back in late April which has been fixed and will presumably be released in v4.6 shortly. Check out https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2021-April/096343.html for more details. Bug report at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798093 Cheers David H. On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 17:00, Public Address wrote: > Version: 4.5 > Build ID: 4.5+(2021-03-27) > Finance::Quote: 1.49 > Windows 10 > > I have been entering stock transactions. All stocks are successfully set > up in the security editor. > > However, if (say) I buy AMD shares > > > 1 Buy 10 shares in Brokerage account:AMD > > 2 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash > > 3 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:AMD > > 4 Which is fine > > 5 Then buy 20 shares of MSFT in Brokerage account:MSFT > > 6 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash > > 7 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:MSFT > as a totally separate tree ie not under TRADING:NASDAQ created in 3 > > So for every ticker GNU is creating a separate tree. > > I get that I can move the MSFT under NASDQ to sit with AMD but why is GNU > creating a totally separate tree each time? > > Thanks > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts
Thanks David, I look forward to the update as I have about 10 separate trading trees now! Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: David H<mailto:hell...@gmail.com> Sent: 27 June 2021 08:55 To: Public Address<mailto:public.addr...@hotmail.co.uk> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> Subject: Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts I think this is a known bug discussed/reported back in late April which has been fixed and will presumably be released in v4.6 shortly. Check out https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2021-April/096343.html for more details. Bug report at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798093 Cheers David H. On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 17:00, Public Address mailto:public.addr...@hotmail.co.uk>> wrote: Version: 4.5 Build ID: 4.5+(2021-03-27) Finance::Quote: 1.49 Windows 10 I have been entering stock transactions. All stocks are successfully set up in the security editor. However, if (say) I buy AMD shares 1 Buy 10 shares in Brokerage account:AMD 2 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash 3 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:AMD 4 Which is fine 5 Then buy 20 shares of MSFT in Brokerage account:MSFT 6 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash 7 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:MSFT as a totally separate tree ie not under TRADING:NASDAQ created in 3 So for every ticker GNU is creating a separate tree. I get that I can move the MSFT under NASDQ to sit with AMD but why is GNU creating a totally separate tree each time? Thanks ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts
My apologies. I was remembering a different thread and bug from the same time frame. Original Message From: "D. via gnucash-user" Sent: Sun Jun 27 07:42:45 EDT 2021 To: David H Cc: Michael via gnucash-user , Public Address Subject: Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts This may or may not be the same problem as in the earlier issue. The earlier issue concerned accounts created in Equity erroneously, not Trading. The (mis-) creation of trading accounts in different tree structures sounds like a different but related problem. Perhaps the fix implemented there will work for this as well, but then again, maybe not. Original Message From: David H Sent: Sun Jun 27 03:55:29 EDT 2021 To: Public Address Cc: "gnucash-user@gnucash.org" Subject: Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts I think this is a known bug discussed/reported back in late April which has been fixed and will presumably be released in v4.6 shortly. Check out https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2021-April/096343.html for more details. Bug report at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798093 Cheers David H. On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 17:00, Public Address wrote: > Version: 4.5 > Build ID: 4.5+(2021-03-27) > Finance::Quote: 1.49 > Windows 10 > > I have been entering stock transactions. All stocks are successfully set > up in the security editor. > > However, if (say) I buy AMD shares > > > 1 Buy 10 shares in Brokerage account:AMD > > 2 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash > > 3 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:AMD > > 4 Which is fine > > 5 Then buy 20 shares of MSFT in Brokerage account:MSFT > > 6 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash > > 7 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:MSFT > as a totally separate tree ie not under TRADING:NASDAQ created in 3 > > So for every ticker GNU is creating a separate tree. > > I get that I can move the MSFT under NASDQ to sit with AMD but why is GNU > creating a totally separate tree each time? > > Thanks > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts
This may or may not be the same problem as in the earlier issue. The earlier issue concerned accounts created in Equity erroneously, not Trading. The (mis-) creation of trading accounts in different tree structures sounds like a different but related problem. Perhaps the fix implemented there will work for this as well, but then again, maybe not. Original Message From: David H Sent: Sun Jun 27 03:55:29 EDT 2021 To: Public Address Cc: "gnucash-user@gnucash.org" Subject: Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts I think this is a known bug discussed/reported back in late April which has been fixed and will presumably be released in v4.6 shortly. Check out https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2021-April/096343.html for more details. Bug report at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798093 Cheers David H. On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 17:00, Public Address wrote: > Version: 4.5 > Build ID: 4.5+(2021-03-27) > Finance::Quote: 1.49 > Windows 10 > > I have been entering stock transactions. All stocks are successfully set > up in the security editor. > > However, if (say) I buy AMD shares > > > 1 Buy 10 shares in Brokerage account:AMD > > 2 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash > > 3 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:AMD > > 4 Which is fine > > 5 Then buy 20 shares of MSFT in Brokerage account:MSFT > > 6 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash > > 7 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:MSFT > as a totally separate tree ie not under TRADING:NASDAQ created in 3 > > So for every ticker GNU is creating a separate tree. > > I get that I can move the MSFT under NASDQ to sit with AMD but why is GNU > creating a totally separate tree each time? > > Thanks > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts
I think this is a known bug discussed/reported back in late April which has been fixed and will presumably be released in v4.6 shortly. Check out https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2021-April/096343.html for more details. Bug report at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798093 Cheers David H. On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 17:00, Public Address wrote: > Version: 4.5 > Build ID: 4.5+(2021-03-27) > Finance::Quote: 1.49 > Windows 10 > > I have been entering stock transactions. All stocks are successfully set > up in the security editor. > > However, if (say) I buy AMD shares > > > 1 Buy 10 shares in Brokerage account:AMD > > 2 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash > > 3 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:AMD > > 4 Which is fine > > 5 Then buy 20 shares of MSFT in Brokerage account:MSFT > > 6 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash > > 7 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:MSFT > as a totally separate tree ie not under TRADING:NASDAQ created in 3 > > So for every ticker GNU is creating a separate tree. > > I get that I can move the MSFT under NASDQ to sit with AMD but why is GNU > creating a totally separate tree each time? > > Thanks > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] GNU cash keeps adding trading accounts
Version: 4.5 Build ID: 4.5+(2021-03-27) Finance::Quote: 1.49 Windows 10 I have been entering stock transactions. All stocks are successfully set up in the security editor. However, if (say) I buy AMD shares 1 Buy 10 shares in Brokerage account:AMD 2 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash 3 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:AMD 4 Which is fine 5 Then buy 20 shares of MSFT in Brokerage account:MSFT 6 GNU reduces cash in Brokerage account:USD Cash 7 GNU then automatically creates TRADING:NASDAQ:MSFT as a totally separate tree ie not under TRADING:NASDAQ created in 3 So for every ticker GNU is creating a separate tree. I get that I can move the MSFT under NASDQ to sit with AMD but why is GNU creating a totally separate tree each time? Thanks ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
On 4 Apr 2021, at 3:29, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: Do you think I should file bug reports? Sure, if you can specify detailed step by step instructions for reproducing the errors. The more information you can give the more likely it is to get fixed. Mike ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
On Sat, 2021-04-03 at 03:21 -0400, Mike Alexander wrote: > On 3 Apr 2021, at 1:31, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > Another issue that I just realized and is related to the > > functionality > > of trading accounts, but maybe not the one that we are discussing > > here, > > is the security/currency of the top level placeholder account > > Trading. > > Shouldn't that be set in my base currency EUR? Strangely enough in > > my > > case it's set in VOW which is a security I trade. > I'm not sure where that came from, but I don't think it matters. I > can't think of anything that GnuCash would use that commodity for. > Another thing that we've sort of passed over without comment is that > trading accounts don't have much to do with realized gains. You still > need to record them as you presumably have been by using splits to a > "realized gain" income account with zero shares and non-zero value. > Trading accounts are more about making the books balance with > unrealized gains. > Mike Yes you are right and that was what I was looking for when I first looked into the functionality. The problem is that it produces a lot of new transaction splits that don't make sense to me or to my usecase scenario. I think for now my testing is over and I will move on deleting the trading accounts and all related splits, as I have read in some previous messages in the list. I have turned the feature on in another book, an individual upstart bussiness that I am now starting and see how this works out in a different setting. Anyhow for my use case I have discovered 3 following issues, which could be bugs - Trading placeholder account is set in the wrong security / currency - Splits are automatically created in past cross-currency/commodity transactions - Trading accounts do not obey commodity value smallest fraction Do you think I should file bug reports? ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
On 3 Apr 2021, at 1:31, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: Another issue that I just realized and is related to the functionality of trading accounts, but maybe not the one that we are discussing here, is the security/currency of the top level placeholder account Trading. Shouldn't that be set in my base currency EUR? Strangely enough in my case it's set in VOW which is a security I trade. I'm not sure where that came from, but I don't think it matters. I can't think of anything that GnuCash would use that commodity for. Another thing that we've sort of passed over without comment is that trading accounts don't have much to do with *realized* gains. You still need to record them as you presumably have been by using splits to a "realized gain" income account with zero shares and non-zero value. Trading accounts are more about making the books balance with *unrealized* gains. Mike ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 13:38 -0700, John Ralls wrote: > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 12:23 PM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 11:58 -0700, John Ralls wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 9:42 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 08:47 -0700, John Ralls wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:37 AM, John Ralls > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 4:05 AM, > > > > > > zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which by the way it > > > > > > > does not use the default security fraction which is > > > > > > > 1/ > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > 1/. > > > > > > > > > > > > The price is in Euro, so it displays as 1/100 of the Euro's > > > > > > fraction. That's for display only, the actual calculated > > > > > > price > > > > > > is > > > > > > as exact a fraction as can be represented with two 64-bit > > > > > > integers. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, you meant that the BTC amount in the trading split is > > > > > rounded > > > > > to 1/1000. Maybe there's a 1/100 clamp left somewhere in > > > > > the > > > > > balancing logic? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > John Ralls > > > > > > > > > Yes you are right, the account created by the trading > > > > subsystem, > > > > Trading:Crypto Currency:BTC-EUR, is in BTC which is a security > > > > in > > > > the > > > > system not in eur which is a currency. > > > > Although I have switched to use "commodity value" in the > > > > "smallest > > > > fraction" switch it still uses 1/ instead the 1/. > > > > But this is somehow minor issue as I assume it does not affect > > > > the > > > > actual value of the account, it's just visual. > > > > > > No, it's pretty clearly keeping the transaction from balancing > > > because .0012 != .00115652. > > > > > > As for the trading splits miraculously appearing, did that happen > > > to > > > all cross-commodity transactions in your book or just ones that > > > you > > > touched? > > > > > > Regards, > > > John Ralls > > > > > > > > To all cross-commodity transactions, I haven't touched - balanced > > any > > transaction yet. > > I turned on trading accounts just a few days a go and still trying > > to > > evaluate my situation, whether I will keep the feature on or not. > > Well, you've touched at least the one from the screenshot. You can't > get that dialog box unless you've opened the transaction for editing. > > If you open the register for Trading:BTC-EUR are there lots of > transactions listed? > > Regards, > John Ralls > Sorry did not understand that by touching you meant click inside. Yes I have touched several transactions. No there are not lots in Trading:Crypto Currency:BTC-EUR Another issue that I just realized and is related to the functionality of trading accounts, but maybe not the one that we are discussing here, is the security/currency of the top level placeholder account Trading. Shouldn't that be set in my base currency EUR? Strangely enough in my case it's set in VOW which is a security I trade. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
> On Apr 2, 2021, at 12:23 PM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 11:58 -0700, John Ralls wrote: >> >> >>> On Apr 2, 2021, at 9:42 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 08:47 -0700, John Ralls wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:37 AM, John Ralls >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 2, 2021, at 4:05 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> which by the way it >>>>>> does not use the default security fraction which is >>>>>> 1/ >>>>>> but >>>>>> 1/. >>>>> >>>>> The price is in Euro, so it displays as 1/100 of the Euro's >>>>> fraction. That's for display only, the actual calculated price >>>>> is >>>>> as exact a fraction as can be represented with two 64-bit >>>>> integers. >>>> >>>> Sorry, you meant that the BTC amount in the trading split is >>>> rounded >>>> to 1/1000. Maybe there's a 1/100 clamp left somewhere in the >>>> balancing logic? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> John Ralls >>>> >>> Yes you are right, the account created by the trading subsystem, >>> Trading:Crypto Currency:BTC-EUR, is in BTC which is a security in >>> the >>> system not in eur which is a currency. >>> Although I have switched to use "commodity value" in the "smallest >>> fraction" switch it still uses 1/ instead the 1/. >>> But this is somehow minor issue as I assume it does not affect the >>> actual value of the account, it's just visual. >> >> No, it's pretty clearly keeping the transaction from balancing >> because .0012 != .00115652. >> >> As for the trading splits miraculously appearing, did that happen to >> all cross-commodity transactions in your book or just ones that you >> touched? >> >> Regards, >> John Ralls >> >> > To all cross-commodity transactions, I haven't touched - balanced any > transaction yet. > I turned on trading accounts just a few days a go and still trying to > evaluate my situation, whether I will keep the feature on or not. Well, you've touched at least the one from the screenshot. You can't get that dialog box unless you've opened the transaction for editing. If you open the register for Trading:BTC-EUR are there lots of transactions listed? Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 11:58 -0700, John Ralls wrote: > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 9:42 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 08:47 -0700, John Ralls wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:37 AM, John Ralls > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 4:05 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > which by the way it > > > > > does not use the default security fraction which is > > > > > 1/ > > > > > but > > > > > 1/. > > > > > > > > The price is in Euro, so it displays as 1/100 of the Euro's > > > > fraction. That's for display only, the actual calculated price > > > > is > > > > as exact a fraction as can be represented with two 64-bit > > > > integers. > > > > > > Sorry, you meant that the BTC amount in the trading split is > > > rounded > > > to 1/1000. Maybe there's a 1/100 clamp left somewhere in the > > > balancing logic? > > > > > > Regards, > > > John Ralls > > > > > Yes you are right, the account created by the trading subsystem, > > Trading:Crypto Currency:BTC-EUR, is in BTC which is a security in > > the > > system not in eur which is a currency. > > Although I have switched to use "commodity value" in the "smallest > > fraction" switch it still uses 1/ instead the 1/. > > But this is somehow minor issue as I assume it does not affect the > > actual value of the account, it's just visual. > > No, it's pretty clearly keeping the transaction from balancing > because .0012 != .00115652. > > As for the trading splits miraculously appearing, did that happen to > all cross-commodity transactions in your book or just ones that you > touched? > > Regards, > John Ralls > > To all cross-commodity transactions, I haven't touched - balanced any transaction yet. I turned on trading accounts just a few days a go and still trying to evaluate my situation, whether I will keep the feature on or not. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
> On Apr 2, 2021, at 9:42 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 08:47 -0700, John Ralls wrote: >> >> >>> On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:37 AM, John Ralls wrote: >>> >>> On Apr 2, 2021, at 4:05 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: which by the way it does not use the default security fraction which is 1/ but 1/. >>> >>> The price is in Euro, so it displays as 1/100 of the Euro's >>> fraction. That's for display only, the actual calculated price is >>> as exact a fraction as can be represented with two 64-bit integers. >> >> Sorry, you meant that the BTC amount in the trading split is rounded >> to 1/1000. Maybe there's a 1/100 clamp left somewhere in the >> balancing logic? >> >> Regards, >> John Ralls >> > Yes you are right, the account created by the trading subsystem, > Trading:Crypto Currency:BTC-EUR, is in BTC which is a security in the > system not in eur which is a currency. > Although I have switched to use "commodity value" in the "smallest > fraction" switch it still uses 1/ instead the 1/. > But this is somehow minor issue as I assume it does not affect the > actual value of the account, it's just visual. No, it's pretty clearly keeping the transaction from balancing because .0012 != .00115652. As for the trading splits miraculously appearing, did that happen to all cross-commodity transactions in your book or just ones that you touched? Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 08:47 -0700, John Ralls wrote: > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:37 AM, John Ralls wrote: > > > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 4:05 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > which by the way it > > > does not use the default security fraction which is 1/ > > > but > > > 1/. > > > > The price is in Euro, so it displays as 1/100 of the Euro's > > fraction. That's for display only, the actual calculated price is > > as exact a fraction as can be represented with two 64-bit integers. > > Sorry, you meant that the BTC amount in the trading split is rounded > to 1/1000. Maybe there's a 1/100 clamp left somewhere in the > balancing logic? > > Regards, > John Ralls > Yes you are right, the account created by the trading subsystem, Trading:Crypto Currency:BTC-EUR, is in BTC which is a security in the system not in eur which is a currency. Although I have switched to use "commodity value" in the "smallest fraction" switch it still uses 1/ instead the 1/. But this is somehow minor issue as I assume it does not affect the actual value of the account, it's just visual. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
> On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:37 AM, John Ralls wrote: > > On Apr 2, 2021, at 4:05 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> which by the way it >> does not use the default security fraction which is 1/ but >> 1/. > > The price is in Euro, so it displays as 1/100 of the Euro's fraction. That's > for display only, the actual calculated price is as exact a fraction as can > be represented with two 64-bit integers. Sorry, you meant that the BTC amount in the trading split is rounded to 1/1000. Maybe there's a 1/100 clamp left somewhere in the balancing logic? Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
On Apr 2, 2021, at 4:05 AM, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > which by the way it > does not use the default security fraction which is 1/ but > 1/. The price is in Euro, so it displays as 1/100 of the Euro's fraction. That's for display only, the actual calculated price is as exact a fraction as can be represented with two 64-bit integers. Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
I have been using lots and scrubing my investment accounts to track realized gains. But since I have turned on trading accounts I have not scrubbed any account. I am attaching an example of 2 splits created after turning on trading accounts. As a side-note some of the account names are in Greek... This is a past purchase of bitcoin using euros. So the system has created (1) a split to Trading:CURRENCY:EUR for 39.90 and (2) a split in Trasing:Crypto Currency:BTC-EUR fro 0.0011 BTC, which by the way it does not use the default security fraction which is 1/ but 1/. Furthermore the system recognises that the transaction is not balanced and each time I try to change the splits it pops up the window that I am attaching you in the 2nd file. To my understanding the system has created a bunch of splits in all my transactions involved with my crypto portfolio that I need to go and manualy rebalance. Did any of the above helped to you to understand the situation better? On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 03:32 -0400, Mike Alexander wrote: > On 28 Mar 2021, at 11:21, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: > > > The problem I am facing is the following, after activating trading > > accounts the system created the hierarchy for all the trading > > accounts, > > but also created a bunch of splits in already recorded > > transactions. > > So > > from the beginning the trading:currency:EUR account has a balance > > of > > almost 2.300 eur and includes all my transactions related to my > > crypto > > portfolio. > > Merely turning on trading accounts shouldn't create any new splits in > existing transactions. I suspect you must have used one or more of > the > scrub commands to create them. > > I would have to have more details to see what is going on, but if you > use one ore more commodities for crypto and have transactions that > buy > or sell those commodities in Euros, then it is normal for trading > account splits to be created for those transactions, but only when > the > transaction is edited or scrubbed. > > Mike ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Trading accounts functionality
On 28 Mar 2021, at 11:21, zuperkoleopt...@gmail.com wrote: The problem I am facing is the following, after activating trading accounts the system created the hierarchy for all the trading accounts, but also created a bunch of splits in already recorded transactions. So from the beginning the trading:currency:EUR account has a balance of almost 2.300 eur and includes all my transactions related to my crypto portfolio. Merely turning on trading accounts shouldn't create any new splits in existing transactions. I suspect you must have used one or more of the scrub commands to create them. I would have to have more details to see what is going on, but if you use one ore more commodities for crypto and have transactions that buy or sell those commodities in Euros, then it is normal for trading account splits to be created for those transactions, but only when the transaction is edited or scrubbed. Mike ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Trading accounts functionality
I've been using gnucash since 2014, recording my personal finances and investments. I am in Europe so my main currency is EUR. Up until now my investments were in EUR currency as well as some crypto, which are again expressed in EUR currency. Lately I started building an investment portfolio in USD, so I started exploring the trading accounts functionality. I have read both articles from P. Selinger and browsed through the documentation and mailing lists, for related subjects. The problem I am facing is the following, after activating trading accounts the system created the hierarchy for all the trading accounts, but also created a bunch of splits in already recorded transactions. So from the beginning the trading:currency:EUR account has a balance of almost 2.300 eur and includes all my transactions related to my crypto portfolio. Is this normal for the trading system to create splits in already recorded transactions? And what does it mean for the trading:currency:EUR to have a positive balance of 2.300 eur, is this exchange realized gain? ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
Hi Mike, Lukas, I am using trading accounts since multiple years and can confirm that the UI can be pretty cumbersome. I got used to it. Besides the regular problems in getting the transactions straight it works pretty well Cheers, Christoph > Am 22.01.2021 um 06:13 schrieb Mike Alexander : > > When I implemented trading accounts several years ago they were a bit > controversial. Some people thought they were more trouble than they were > worth and argued that they should be an opt-in choice. One of the initial > design goals was that if you didn't turn them on nothing would change in the > way GnuCash behaved. The initial implementation had some rough edges too, > which didn't help. It's been a while since any significant problems have > come up with them (although a new bug was filed on them today) so maybe this > question should be revisited. > > It's also the case that the user interface leaves a bit to be desired. It is > harder than it should be to enter multi-currency transactions with trading > accounts turned on. At the time I implemented them there was an effort > underway to rewrite the code that supports the register UI and the new > implementation would have improved this. Unfortunately that effort was later > abandoned and we're left with the old UI code. I have ideas for how to > improve it, but my time and ability to do much coding is limited these days > so I probably won't get to it soon. See > https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797913 for more information about > this. > > I know what you mean about multiple currencies. I haven't moved around as > often as you have, but I've lived in a couple of countries and spend a lot of > time traveling in various others. I think I have accounts in nearly 30 > currencies over a 30 year period. I used to have income and expense accounts > in multiple currencies, but this turned out to not work well so I now use > only one currency for all of them and convert transactions in other > currencies into USD. This works for me since it is still my home currency > although I am under increasing pressure to move to Canada. > > Mike > > On 21 Jan 2021, at 21:06, Lukas Haase wrote: > >> Hi Christopher, >> >> This is very sad. Sad for various reasons. >> >> I went over these documents previously (but did not read them thoroughly). >> >> My takeaway is: >> * Storing the conversion rate per transaction makes the accounting equation >> as a function of time inconsistent (but it is consistent for each snaphot in >> time). >> * Trading account accounts for these inaccuracies. >> >> My question was more why the trading accounts (which seem to me the cleaner, >> superior and better way) are not enabled by default. >> >> Also, can you comment a bit more why precicely this would be a major >> minefield? (If you know it, of course). >> >> Multiple databases are just extremely hard for some people (like me). >> >> Consider living for a couple of months to a year in a different place. There >> is just no way to separate this in a clean way without replicating all the >> transactions in different databases. BTDT. >> >> Also I moved multiple times. Even then, there is no clear cut: Initially I >> would use credit cards, ATM etc. from previous country. Even the first or >> second rent may be partially paid with funds from the previous location. It >> takes a few months until I could consider the books between two countries >> sufficiently separate. The only ways are a) Massive transaction Replication >> b) booking everything I pay with funds from old country into old database. >> But with my rent example, it gets very inconsistent how much I paid rent at >> the new place. >> >> Lastly, simple portfolio accounting (e.g. crypto currencies) if they are >> bought in different countries. >> >> I am curious what the potential mines are so I can try to avoid them. >> >> Lukas >> >> >> >> On 2021-01-21 20:20, Christopher Lam wrote: >>> Multicurrency is a major minefield. >>> Start from https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html >>> and finish with >>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the >>> background on trading accounts. >>> From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach is >>> to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better >>> off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips abroad >>> gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU.
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
Personally I'd stick with 1 book = 1 currency, and record all transactions in their home currency only. I'd only record the same transaction in both books if they're a formal currency transfer. A simple issue is balance sheet: if you hold stocks eg TSLA in your USD account, and ANA from your Japan account... the overall balance sheet in USD will convert ANA->JPY->USD. This has a chance of being accurate if you have *daily* USD/JPY prices. Most users don't. On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Lukas Haase wrote: > Hi Christopher, > > This is very sad. Sad for various reasons. > > I went over these documents previously (but did not read them thoroughly). > > My takeaway is: > * Storing the conversion rate per transaction makes the accounting > equation as a function of time inconsistent (but it is consistent for > each snaphot in time). > * Trading account accounts for these inaccuracies. > > My question was more why the trading accounts (which seem to me the > cleaner, superior and better way) are not enabled by default. > > Also, can you comment a bit more why precicely this would be a major > minefield? (If you know it, of course). > > Multiple databases are just extremely hard for some people (like me). > > Consider living for a couple of months to a year in a different place. > There is just no way to separate this in a clean way without replicating > all the transactions in different databases. BTDT. > > Also I moved multiple times. Even then, there is no clear cut: Initially > I would use credit cards, ATM etc. from previous country. Even the first > or second rent may be partially paid with funds from the previous > location. It takes a few months until I could consider the books between > two countries sufficiently separate. The only ways are a) Massive > transaction Replication b) booking everything I pay with funds from old > country into old database. But with my rent example, it gets very > inconsistent how much I paid rent at the new place. > > Lastly, simple portfolio accounting (e.g. crypto currencies) if they are > bought in different countries. > > I am curious what the potential mines are so I can try to avoid them. > > Lukas > > > > On 2021-01-21 20:20, Christopher Lam wrote: > > Multicurrency is a major minefield. > > Start from > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html > > and finish with > > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the > > background on trading accounts. > > From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach > is > > to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better > > off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips > abroad > > gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU. IANAA YMMV. > > https://techcrunch.com/2010/08/14/internet-must-be-true/ > > > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:59, Lukas Haase wrote: > > > >> Hi Mike, > >> > >> On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: > >>> On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: > >>> > >>>> So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my > >>>> previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross > >>>> (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). > >>>> > >>>> How do I best deal with this? > >>>> Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and > >>>> use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? > >>>> > >>>> If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data > >>>> does not suddenly get inconsistent? > >>> > >>> You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions > >>> menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I > >>> would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on > >>> a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is > >>> not unlikely that this won't do exactly what you want, but it's worth a > >>> try assuming you have good backup. > >> > >> Thank you, I think that worked indeed. > >> > >> I still need to cross-check everything (at the first glance things look > >> OK). > >> > >> So then I'd have a general question on the multi currency feature: > >> > >> 1.) Are "Trading Accounts" just an *alternative* way to handle multi > >> currencies (and as such have nothing to do with "trading")? > >> > >> 2.)
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
The issue is when currency fluctuates, you have capital gains or losses, depending on whatever you consider to be your home currency. These gains/losses are unrecorded (but not unrealised). C On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 04:36, w...@theprescotts.com wrote: > I am probably missing something here. > > I have bank accounts in two countries and regularly transfer money between > them. Whenever I move money, I record the transaction and the amount for > each side of the transaction. Gnucash automatically makes an entry in the > Price Database recording the conversion rate. > > It seems much cleaner than treating one currency or the other as a > commodity that is bought or sold at some rate. One thing that is a little > strange is that the Price Database has separate tables for each direction. > I suppose it depends on which side of the transaction I use to record the > transfer. But I almost never look at the Price Database so it doesn't > bother me much. > > Will > > On 2021 Jan 21, at 01-21 20:06:04, Lukas Haase wrote: > > Hi Christopher, > > This is very sad. Sad for various reasons. > > I went over these documents previously (but did not read them thoroughly). > > My takeaway is: > * Storing the conversion rate per transaction makes the accounting > equation as a function of time inconsistent (but it is consistent for each > snaphot in time). > * Trading account accounts for these inaccuracies. > > My question was more why the trading accounts (which seem to me the > cleaner, superior and better way) are not enabled by default. > > Also, can you comment a bit more why precicely this would be a major > minefield? (If you know it, of course). > > Multiple databases are just extremely hard for some people (like me). > > Consider living for a couple of months to a year in a different place. > There is just no way to separate this in a clean way without replicating > all the transactions in different databases. BTDT. > > Also I moved multiple times. Even then, there is no clear cut: Initially I > would use credit cards, ATM etc. from previous country. Even the first or > second rent may be partially paid with funds from the previous location. It > takes a few months until I could consider the books between two countries > sufficiently separate. The only ways are a) Massive transaction Replication > b) booking everything I pay with funds from old country into old database. > But with my rent example, it gets very inconsistent how much I paid rent at > the new place. > > Lastly, simple portfolio accounting (e.g. crypto currencies) if they are > bought in different countries. > > I am curious what the potential mines are so I can try to avoid them. > > Lukas > > > > On 2021-01-21 20:20, Christopher Lam wrote: > > Multicurrency is a major minefield. > > Start from > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html > > and finish with > > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the > > background on trading accounts. > > From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach > is > > to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better > > off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips > abroad > > gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU. IANAA YMMV. > > https://techcrunch.com/2010/08/14/internet-must-be-true/ > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:59, Lukas Haase wrote: > >> Hi Mike, > >> > >> On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: > >>> On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: > >>> > >>>> So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my > >>>> previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross > >>>> (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). > >>>> > >>>> How do I best deal with this? > >>>> Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and > >>>> use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? > >>>> > >>>> If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data > >>>> does not suddenly get inconsistent? > >>> > >>> You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions > >>> menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I > >>> would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on > >>> a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is > >>> not unlikely that this won't do exactly what you want, but it's worth a >
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
When I implemented trading accounts several years ago they were a bit controversial. Some people thought they were more trouble than they were worth and argued that they should be an opt-in choice. One of the initial design goals was that if you didn't turn them on nothing would change in the way GnuCash behaved. The initial implementation had some rough edges too, which didn't help. It's been a while since any significant problems have come up with them (although a new bug was filed on them today) so maybe this question should be revisited. It's also the case that the user interface leaves a bit to be desired. It is harder than it should be to enter multi-currency transactions with trading accounts turned on. At the time I implemented them there was an effort underway to rewrite the code that supports the register UI and the new implementation would have improved this. Unfortunately that effort was later abandoned and we're left with the old UI code. I have ideas for how to improve it, but my time and ability to do much coding is limited these days so I probably won't get to it soon. See https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797913 for more information about this. I know what you mean about multiple currencies. I haven't moved around as often as you have, but I've lived in a couple of countries and spend a lot of time traveling in various others. I think I have accounts in nearly 30 currencies over a 30 year period. I used to have income and expense accounts in multiple currencies, but this turned out to not work well so I now use only one currency for all of them and convert transactions in other currencies into USD. This works for me since it is still my home currency although I am under increasing pressure to move to Canada. Mike On 21 Jan 2021, at 21:06, Lukas Haase wrote: Hi Christopher, This is very sad. Sad for various reasons. I went over these documents previously (but did not read them thoroughly). My takeaway is: * Storing the conversion rate per transaction makes the accounting equation as a function of time inconsistent (but it is consistent for each snaphot in time). * Trading account accounts for these inaccuracies. My question was more why the trading accounts (which seem to me the cleaner, superior and better way) are not enabled by default. Also, can you comment a bit more why precicely this would be a major minefield? (If you know it, of course). Multiple databases are just extremely hard for some people (like me). Consider living for a couple of months to a year in a different place. There is just no way to separate this in a clean way without replicating all the transactions in different databases. BTDT. Also I moved multiple times. Even then, there is no clear cut: Initially I would use credit cards, ATM etc. from previous country. Even the first or second rent may be partially paid with funds from the previous location. It takes a few months until I could consider the books between two countries sufficiently separate. The only ways are a) Massive transaction Replication b) booking everything I pay with funds from old country into old database. But with my rent example, it gets very inconsistent how much I paid rent at the new place. Lastly, simple portfolio accounting (e.g. crypto currencies) if they are bought in different countries. I am curious what the potential mines are so I can try to avoid them. Lukas On 2021-01-21 20:20, Christopher Lam wrote: Multicurrency is a major minefield. Start from https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html and finish with https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the background on trading accounts. From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach is to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips abroad gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU. IANAA YMMV. https://techcrunch.com/2010/08/14/internet-must-be-true/ On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:59, Lukas Haase wrote: Hi Mike, On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). How do I best deal with this? Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data does not suddenly get inconsistent? You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on a few transactions first. Your situation is
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
https://www.accaglobal.com/us/en/technical-activities/technical-resources-search/2015/march/frs102-foreign-currency-translation.html This is all I can offer in supporting information. Experienced users can undoubtedly offer more. On Fri, 22 Jan 2021, 12:36 pm w...@theprescotts.com, wrote: > I am probably missing something here. > > I have bank accounts in two countries and regularly transfer money between > them. Whenever I move money, I record the transaction and the amount for > each side of the transaction. Gnucash automatically makes an entry in the > Price Database recording the conversion rate. > > It seems much cleaner than treating one currency or the other as a > commodity that is bought or sold at some rate. One thing that is a little > strange is that the Price Database has separate tables for each direction. > I suppose it depends on which side of the transaction I use to record the > transfer. But I almost never look at the Price Database so it doesn't > bother me much. > > Will > > On 2021 Jan 21, at 01-21 20:06:04, Lukas Haase wrote: > > Hi Christopher, > > This is very sad. Sad for various reasons. > > I went over these documents previously (but did not read them thoroughly). > > My takeaway is: > * Storing the conversion rate per transaction makes the accounting > equation as a function of time inconsistent (but it is consistent for each > snaphot in time). > * Trading account accounts for these inaccuracies. > > My question was more why the trading accounts (which seem to me the > cleaner, superior and better way) are not enabled by default. > > Also, can you comment a bit more why precicely this would be a major > minefield? (If you know it, of course). > > Multiple databases are just extremely hard for some people (like me). > > Consider living for a couple of months to a year in a different place. > There is just no way to separate this in a clean way without replicating > all the transactions in different databases. BTDT. > > Also I moved multiple times. Even then, there is no clear cut: Initially I > would use credit cards, ATM etc. from previous country. Even the first or > second rent may be partially paid with funds from the previous location. It > takes a few months until I could consider the books between two countries > sufficiently separate. The only ways are a) Massive transaction Replication > b) booking everything I pay with funds from old country into old database. > But with my rent example, it gets very inconsistent how much I paid rent at > the new place. > > Lastly, simple portfolio accounting (e.g. crypto currencies) if they are > bought in different countries. > > I am curious what the potential mines are so I can try to avoid them. > > Lukas > > > > On 2021-01-21 20:20, Christopher Lam wrote: > > Multicurrency is a major minefield. > > Start from > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html > > and finish with > > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the > > background on trading accounts. > > From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach > is > > to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better > > off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips > abroad > > gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU. IANAA YMMV. > > https://techcrunch.com/2010/08/14/internet-must-be-true/ > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:59, Lukas Haase wrote: > >> Hi Mike, > >> > >> On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: > >>> On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: > >>> > >>>> So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my > >>>> previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross > >>>> (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). > >>>> > >>>> How do I best deal with this? > >>>> Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and > >>>> use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? > >>>> > >>>> If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data > >>>> does not suddenly get inconsistent? > >>> > >>> You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions > >>> menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I > >>> would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on > >>> a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is > >>> not unlikely that this won't do exactly what
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
I am probably missing something here. I have bank accounts in two countries and regularly transfer money between them. Whenever I move money, I record the transaction and the amount for each side of the transaction. Gnucash automatically makes an entry in the Price Database recording the conversion rate. It seems much cleaner than treating one currency or the other as a commodity that is bought or sold at some rate. One thing that is a little strange is that the Price Database has separate tables for each direction. I suppose it depends on which side of the transaction I use to record the transfer. But I almost never look at the Price Database so it doesn't bother me much. Will On 2021 Jan 21, at 01-21 20:06:04, Lukas Haase wrote: Hi Christopher, This is very sad. Sad for various reasons. I went over these documents previously (but did not read them thoroughly). My takeaway is: * Storing the conversion rate per transaction makes the accounting equation as a function of time inconsistent (but it is consistent for each snaphot in time). * Trading account accounts for these inaccuracies. My question was more why the trading accounts (which seem to me the cleaner, superior and better way) are not enabled by default. Also, can you comment a bit more why precicely this would be a major minefield? (If you know it, of course). Multiple databases are just extremely hard for some people (like me). Consider living for a couple of months to a year in a different place. There is just no way to separate this in a clean way without replicating all the transactions in different databases. BTDT. Also I moved multiple times. Even then, there is no clear cut: Initially I would use credit cards, ATM etc. from previous country. Even the first or second rent may be partially paid with funds from the previous location. It takes a few months until I could consider the books between two countries sufficiently separate. The only ways are a) Massive transaction Replication b) booking everything I pay with funds from old country into old database. But with my rent example, it gets very inconsistent how much I paid rent at the new place. Lastly, simple portfolio accounting (e.g. crypto currencies) if they are bought in different countries. I am curious what the potential mines are so I can try to avoid them. Lukas On 2021-01-21 20:20, Christopher Lam wrote: > Multicurrency is a major minefield. > Start from https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html > and finish with > https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the > background on trading accounts. > From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach is > to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better > off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips abroad > gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU. IANAA YMMV. > https://techcrunch.com/2010/08/14/internet-must-be-true/ > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:59, Lukas Haase wrote: >> Hi Mike, >> >> On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: >>> On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: >>> >>>> So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my >>>> previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross >>>> (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). >>>> >>>> How do I best deal with this? >>>> Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and >>>> use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? >>>> >>>> If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data >>>> does not suddenly get inconsistent? >>> >>> You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions >>> menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I >>> would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on >>> a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is >>> not unlikely that this won't do exactly what you want, but it's worth a >>> try assuming you have good backup. >> >> Thank you, I think that worked indeed. >> >> I still need to cross-check everything (at the first glance things look >> OK). >> >> So then I'd have a general question on the multi currency feature: >> >> 1.) Are "Trading Accounts" just an *alternative* way to handle multi >> currencies (and as such have nothing to do with "trading")? >> >> 2.) Trading Account seem to be way more powerful than storing the >> exchange rate in each transaction >> >> 3.) Why exactly aren't they enabled by default if they are so superior? >>
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
Hi Christopher, This is very sad. Sad for various reasons. I went over these documents previously (but did not read them thoroughly). My takeaway is: * Storing the conversion rate per transaction makes the accounting equation as a function of time inconsistent (but it is consistent for each snaphot in time). * Trading account accounts for these inaccuracies. My question was more why the trading accounts (which seem to me the cleaner, superior and better way) are not enabled by default. Also, can you comment a bit more why precicely this would be a major minefield? (If you know it, of course). Multiple databases are just extremely hard for some people (like me). Consider living for a couple of months to a year in a different place. There is just no way to separate this in a clean way without replicating all the transactions in different databases. BTDT. Also I moved multiple times. Even then, there is no clear cut: Initially I would use credit cards, ATM etc. from previous country. Even the first or second rent may be partially paid with funds from the previous location. It takes a few months until I could consider the books between two countries sufficiently separate. The only ways are a) Massive transaction Replication b) booking everything I pay with funds from old country into old database. But with my rent example, it gets very inconsistent how much I paid rent at the new place. Lastly, simple portfolio accounting (e.g. crypto currencies) if they are bought in different countries. I am curious what the potential mines are so I can try to avoid them. Lukas On 2021-01-21 20:20, Christopher Lam wrote: Multicurrency is a major minefield. Start from https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html and finish with https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the background on trading accounts. From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach is to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips abroad gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU. IANAA YMMV. https://techcrunch.com/2010/08/14/internet-must-be-true/ On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:59, Lukas Haase wrote: Hi Mike, On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). How do I best deal with this? Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data does not suddenly get inconsistent? You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is not unlikely that this won't do exactly what you want, but it's worth a try assuming you have good backup. Thank you, I think that worked indeed. I still need to cross-check everything (at the first glance things look OK). So then I'd have a general question on the multi currency feature: 1.) Are "Trading Accounts" just an *alternative* way to handle multi currencies (and as such have nothing to do with "trading")? 2.) Trading Account seem to be way more powerful than storing the exchange rate in each transaction 3.) Why exactly aren't they enabled by default if they are so superior? Why let people my default use the way that makes things less consistent and error-prone? Thanks, Lukas ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
Multicurrency is a major minefield. Start from https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html and finish with https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html for the background on trading accounts. >From discussion with accountant, it would seem that the safest approach is to have 1 book per home currency. When you move countries you'd be better off with a new book with a new home currency. Taking temporary trips abroad gets the currencies translated to home currency. AFAIU. IANAA YMMV. https://techcrunch.com/2010/08/14/internet-must-be-true/ On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 00:59, Lukas Haase wrote: > Hi Mike, > > On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: > > On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: > > > >> So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my > >> previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross > >> (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). > >> > >> How do I best deal with this? > >> Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and > >> use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? > >> > >> If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data > >> does not suddenly get inconsistent? > > > > You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions > > menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I > > would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on > > a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is > > not unlikely that this won't do exactly what you want, but it's worth a > > try assuming you have good backup. > > Thank you, I think that worked indeed. > > I still need to cross-check everything (at the first glance things look > OK). > > So then I'd have a general question on the multi currency feature: > > 1.) Are "Trading Accounts" just an *alternative* way to handle multi > currencies (and as such have nothing to do with "trading")? > > 2.) Trading Account seem to be way more powerful than storing the > exchange rate in each transaction > > 3.) Why exactly aren't they enabled by default if they are so superior? > Why let people my default use the way that makes things less consistent > and error-prone? > > Thanks, > Lukas > > > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
Hi Mike, On 2021-01-21 02:24, Mike Alexander wrote: On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). How do I best deal with this? Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data does not suddenly get inconsistent? You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is not unlikely that this won't do exactly what you want, but it's worth a try assuming you have good backup. Thank you, I think that worked indeed. I still need to cross-check everything (at the first glance things look OK). So then I'd have a general question on the multi currency feature: 1.) Are "Trading Accounts" just an *alternative* way to handle multi currencies (and as such have nothing to do with "trading")? 2.) Trading Account seem to be way more powerful than storing the exchange rate in each transaction 3.) Why exactly aren't they enabled by default if they are so superior? Why let people my default use the way that makes things less consistent and error-prone? Thanks, Lukas ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
On 19 Jan 2021, at 20:08, Lukas Haase wrote: So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). How do I best deal with this? Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data does not suddenly get inconsistent? You should be able to use the "Check & Repair" commands in the Actions menu to add the trading account splits to existing transactions. I would certainly save a copy of my data before doing this, and try it on a few transactions first. Your situation is complex enough that it is not unlikely that this won't do exactly what you want, but it's worth a try assuming you have good backup. Mike ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Switching to trading accounts in existing database
Hi, I have been using gnucash for over ten years. My data contains all data (Sqlite database ~20MB). I have lived in four different countries and since the move never was a clear cut, I ended up having four separate Equity/Assets/Liabilities/Expenses/Income hierarchies, one for each. I made extensive usage of the multi-currency functionality (e.g., living in country A, paying with credit card from country B) which has an exchange rate for each transaction/split when the two accounts have different currencies. Recently I stumbled into this problem: "Securities" (crypto currency) which I buy from different brokers in each country. So I have a broker in Canadian dollars, US Dollars, Euro. Now these "shares" (=Bitcoin) get transfered to my personal wallet. This personal wallet is represented as Stock account with security BTC and the sources of its transactions are the stock accounts of each trader with different currencies. Suddenly it gets messy ... the personal wallet account would mix different currencies in the same ledger (Price/Buy/Sell values represent 1:1 the values of the source accounts -- there is no currency conversion). So I got recommended using trading accounts. But suddenly all my previous multi-currency transactions get a small grey box with a cross (hinting the transaction is inconsistent). How do I best deal with this? Is it possible to keep my old multi currency transactions as-is and use trading accounts only for securities/stocks? If not, how do I migrate while ensuring my ten years worth of data does not suddenly get inconsistent? Thanks, Lukas ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] The type of trading accounts
They show up in their own section if I'm not mistaken. While the original question is interesting, I wonder how practical the answer is. Regards, Adrien On 10/17/20 11:58 AM, Stan Brown wrote: And of asset accounts. One way to determine whether its expense account or an asset account is to run a balance sheet and see if it shows up there. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] The type of trading accounts
On 2020-10-17 04:42, Gal wrote: > But on the other hand, when I open a trading account register, I see that > money coming into the account (debit) is increasing its balance, and money > going out of the account (credit) is decreasing the balance, but this is the > behavior of expense accounts. And of asset accounts. One way to determine whether its expense account or an asset account is to run a balance sheet and see if it shows up there. -- Stan Brown Tehachapi, CA, USA https://BrownMath.com https://OakRoadSystems.com > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] The type of trading accounts
Does a trading account, i.e. an account of type "Trading" that was auto created by the system, acts like an income account or like an expense account? On one hand the concept behind this account type classifies it as an income account: https://www.mscs.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html "By convention, gains are recorded positively and losses negatively, and therefore a currency trading account is a kind of income account." The tutorial also classifies it as an income account by its placement and sign in the accounting equation: https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/currency_trading_accts.html Assets = Liabilities + Equity (+ Income -Expenses) + Trading But on the other hand, when I open a trading account register, I see that money coming into the account (debit) is increasing its balance, and money going out of the account (credit) is decreasing the balance, but this is the behavior of expense accounts. -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Gnucash automatically created trading accounts
Thank you David. On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 5:56 AM David Cousens wrote: > Gio, > > There is one problem that does occur with importing multiple currencies > associated with the price that I am aware of. If the price is expressed as > a > rational number i.e. one integer number divided by another integer number > or > 1+ a rational number, GnuCash sometimes does not appear to parse the price > information correctly. I have mainly experienced this while reimporting > exported data while testing the importer. One thing to try is if the price > information is expressed as a rational number in the CVS file try > converting > it to a decimal number before importing. > > To use the Actions > Edit Exchange Rate you need to select the split of the > transaction which will have the exchange rate information attached to it. > Try selecting the other split. I am able to edit the exchange rate /price > information in both registers an exchange rate transaction affects, but > only > one split in each register has the price information attached, the other > split has a price of 1 so you will need to apply this action to the right > split. > > Hope this helps > > > David > > > > - > David Cousens > -- > Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- cheers, Gio ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Gnucash automatically created trading accounts
Gio, There is one problem that does occur with importing multiple currencies associated with the price that I am aware of. If the price is expressed as a rational number i.e. one integer number divided by another integer number or 1+ a rational number, GnuCash sometimes does not appear to parse the price information correctly. I have mainly experienced this while reimporting exported data while testing the importer. One thing to try is if the price information is expressed as a rational number in the CVS file try converting it to a decimal number before importing. To use the Actions > Edit Exchange Rate you need to select the split of the transaction which will have the exchange rate information attached to it. Try selecting the other split. I am able to edit the exchange rate /price information in both registers an exchange rate transaction affects, but only one split in each register has the price information attached, the other split has a price of 1 so you will need to apply this action to the right split. Hope this helps David - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Gnucash automatically created trading accounts
So I started a new file. Then I imported csvs containing transactions which have been pre-populated with Gnucash expense accounts. While Gnucash expense accounts are in 1 currency, there are some accounts that have other currencies. After importation, I find that gnucash created a trading accounts category. Also the amounts on the imported transactions were not converted. Now that I enter in the split the correct currency by doing Actions > Edit Exchange Rate. But nothing happens. How do I correct these? Thanks. -- cheers, Gio ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts for Securities
When I set up a trading account for a USD stock, gnucash diligently added transactions in the trading account for the stock and for USD. The stock trading account simply tracks the number of shares in the account (which is what the asset account for the stock already does). The USD trading account shows the amount spent or received. So the trading USD account shows dollar amounts for all stock transactions in USD. I did not see a way to set up trading accounts for the currency side of each stock separately, but there may well be a way. When I sell a security I post a debit to the checking account the money goes into, a credit to the security at the PURCHASE price. The remaining out of balance amount is the capital gain (loss). That is pretty simple. For a traditional IRA, I post dividends to an Income:Deferred IRA:FB account. The income is not taxable in the current year, and at year-end I will close it to equity. But its nice to know. No need really to track your basis since it is all taxed as ordinary income when distributed. If you want to keep IRA out of "income" you could just as well post the dividend to an Equity:Deferred Income account. Then when you take a distribution you can debit Equity:Deferred Income and credit Income:IRA Distribution. YMMV Keith On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:57 PM, Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote: > On 2018-02-21 12:00, Keith Bellairs wrote: > > > In the end I do not see that I get anything from using trading accounts. > I > > can see that they would be useful for currency if I had to track the > > exchange rate on every foreign currency transaction. But the IRS lets me > > use an average rate for my CDN income(expense). > > > > Am I using trading accounts wrong? > > I'm kind of wondering what they could do for me, and you've fueled my > doubts. > > I have three Vanguard accounts (taxable, Roth IRA, and traditional IRA) > and a company 401(k) to which I'm currently contributing. > > The 401(k) has "fake funds" -- they're not traded on any exchange, or if > they are then the customer service rep couldn't give me valid ticket > symbols. So I have to keep track of that myself and post realized gains > or losses in dollars, not shares. > > The Vanguard funds are all invested in subsets of the same about eight > mutual funds -- for instance, all three have VTI and VXUS, and two have > BND -- so GnuCash could look up values there. But I'm not clear on what > that would buy me, with my "set it and forget it" portfolio. > > For the two IRAs I don't need to do any tax accounting: the Roth is tax > free and any withdrawal from the traditional will be ordinary income. > > The taxable account has just two Vanguard funds in it, and that's not > going to change. But since dividends are reinvested automatically, every > month there are purchases of fractional shares, which I'd have to tell > GnuCash about. Is that worth it, or am I better off to stick with the > spreadsheet I've already developed, and just make one-off entries in > GnuCash, in dollars not shares, when I buy or sell (which will be rarely)? > > -- > Regards, > Stan Brown > Tompkins County, New York, USA > http://BrownMath.com > http://OakRoadSystems.com > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts for Securities
Thanks, Derek. I get that. I guess trading accounts do not provide for a use case I need. Keith On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:10 PM, Derek Atkins <de...@ihtfp.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Trading accounts do not show you UNREALIZED gains. They exist to help you > balance out REALIZED gains once you have a sale transaction. > > -derek > > On Wed, February 21, 2018 12:00 pm, Keith Bellairs wrote: > > I started looking at using trading accounts but I may be missing > > something. > > > > The trading account created by gnucash for a stock shows as a balance the > > number of shares in the account. This is also the balance shown in the > > asset account for that stock. > > > > Transactions for all stocks post to the USD (in my case) trading account. > > So the USD trading account seems to show the aggregate of purchases, > > sales, > > gains. losses etc. of all the stocks - sort of like the amount of money I > > have on the table for trading. But I would rather see the realized gains > > in > > an income account. And I can see the total unrealized gain(loss) in an > > advanced portfolio report. > > > > I had guessed that unrealized gains would somehow be reflected in the > > trading account when the value of the underlying security is updated. In > > that way the trading account would look like the marginable value of my > > stocks. Then I looked at the documentation. The examples only show > > realized > > gains being posted. So again, the actual asset account for a security > > provides me more info. I guess I could manually post unrealized gain to > > the > > trading account each time I look up the price of a security, since the > > Trading Account - USD does not have to match the real amount of cash on > > hand. > > > > In the end I do not see that I get anything from using trading accounts. > I > > can see that they would be useful for currency if I had to track the > > exchange rate on every foreign currency transaction. But the IRS lets me > > use an average rate for my CDN income(expense). > > > > Am I using trading accounts wrong? > > > > Keith > > ___ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > > - > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > > > -- >Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 >de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com >Computer and Internet Security Consultant > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts for Securities
Hi, Trading accounts do not show you UNREALIZED gains. They exist to help you balance out REALIZED gains once you have a sale transaction. -derek On Wed, February 21, 2018 12:00 pm, Keith Bellairs wrote: > I started looking at using trading accounts but I may be missing > something. > > The trading account created by gnucash for a stock shows as a balance the > number of shares in the account. This is also the balance shown in the > asset account for that stock. > > Transactions for all stocks post to the USD (in my case) trading account. > So the USD trading account seems to show the aggregate of purchases, > sales, > gains. losses etc. of all the stocks - sort of like the amount of money I > have on the table for trading. But I would rather see the realized gains > in > an income account. And I can see the total unrealized gain(loss) in an > advanced portfolio report. > > I had guessed that unrealized gains would somehow be reflected in the > trading account when the value of the underlying security is updated. In > that way the trading account would look like the marginable value of my > stocks. Then I looked at the documentation. The examples only show > realized > gains being posted. So again, the actual asset account for a security > provides me more info. I guess I could manually post unrealized gain to > the > trading account each time I look up the price of a security, since the > Trading Account - USD does not have to match the real amount of cash on > hand. > > In the end I do not see that I get anything from using trading accounts. I > can see that they would be useful for currency if I had to track the > exchange rate on every foreign currency transaction. But the IRS lets me > use an average rate for my CDN income(expense). > > Am I using trading accounts wrong? > > Keith > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Trading Accounts for Securities
I started looking at using trading accounts but I may be missing something. The trading account created by gnucash for a stock shows as a balance the number of shares in the account. This is also the balance shown in the asset account for that stock. Transactions for all stocks post to the USD (in my case) trading account. So the USD trading account seems to show the aggregate of purchases, sales, gains. losses etc. of all the stocks - sort of like the amount of money I have on the table for trading. But I would rather see the realized gains in an income account. And I can see the total unrealized gain(loss) in an advanced portfolio report. I had guessed that unrealized gains would somehow be reflected in the trading account when the value of the underlying security is updated. In that way the trading account would look like the marginable value of my stocks. Then I looked at the documentation. The examples only show realized gains being posted. So again, the actual asset account for a security provides me more info. I guess I could manually post unrealized gain to the trading account each time I look up the price of a security, since the Trading Account - USD does not have to match the real amount of cash on hand. In the end I do not see that I get anything from using trading accounts. I can see that they would be useful for currency if I had to track the exchange rate on every foreign currency transaction. But the IRS lets me use an average rate for my CDN income(expense). Am I using trading accounts wrong? Keith ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts
Thanks, that is what my test file indicates. I am adding Trading Accounts to my production GC file. Les On 02/13/2018 02:59 AM, Wm via gnucash-user wrote: On 12/02/2018 17:12, Les wrote: I use, in addition to USD. AUD, HKD, CAD, CNY and SGD. I buy in tranches for average cost. So, not sure that means I have complicated trades but I make sure I never have any orphan accounts. I checked my test file for capital and it did not list any. Although, at the bottom of my accounts list, there is a list of currencies and exchanges with totals for each. But, again, there isn't any difference in income and expenses. Trading Accounts may well help you given the mix of currencies. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts
On 13/02/2018 02:27, David Carlson wrote: Be sure to compare what Gnucash generates to what your broker reports to the government. Gnucash has trouble calculating the net gain that the IRS wants to see. Many of us still use spreadsheet s to compare to the brokerage reports that are sent to the IRS. The joy being that gnc doesn't take a view :) P.S. I sometimes forget I have to get through Liz first so you'll be reading this next week. -- Wm ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts
On 12/02/2018 17:12, Les wrote: I use, in addition to USD. AUD, HKD, CAD, CNY and SGD. I buy in tranches for average cost. So, not sure that means I have complicated trades but I make sure I never have any orphan accounts. I checked my test file for capital and it did not list any. Although, at the bottom of my accounts list, there is a list of currencies and exchanges with totals for each. But, again, there isn't any difference in income and expenses. Trading Accounts may well help you given the mix of currencies. -- Wm ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts
On 12/02/2018 12:41, Les wrote: I have a "test" laptop with GC 2.6.17 running the latest Linux Mint. I opened GC and tried using Trading Accounts, did check and repair, noted the totals of assets, liabilities, income and expense before and after. There was no difference. I then ran a Income and Expense report for year 2016 (which is the same as my production GC and compared the two. Again there was no difference in totals between the two GC files. So, exactly what does Trading Accounts actually do? I noticed that when viewing a stock transaction using auto-split view, there are added lines showing trading: currencies and trading: exchange and stock symbol, that does not appear without trading accounts. Don't use Trading Accounts unless you know what they are in gnc terms. Follow the links ChristopherL has given first, you probably need to understand Selinger first, promise. -- Wm ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts
Good advice David.
I have always just used my broker reports for tax purposes. I guess I
never really relied on GC for such reporting. I use GC to keep track of
my day-to-day transactions; inputing from paper receipts as I receive
them. Also reconciling bank and brokerage accounts at month end.
Les
On 02/12/2018 08:27 PM, David Carlson wrote:
Be sure to compare what Gnucash generates to what your broker reports
to the government. Gnucash has trouble calculating the net gain that
the IRS wants to see.
Many of us still use spreadsheet s to compare to the brokerage reports
that are sent to the IRS.
David C
On Feb 12, 2018 2:27 PM, "Les" <lellio...@gmail.com
<mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I ran a balance sheet for 2016 and compared the two. Everything
looks the same until I reach the equity account. Here is where
the difference occurs (and I completely missed it initially). In
the GC file without the use of Trading Accounts, I have unrealized
gains, whereas in the GC file using Trading Accounts, I have
trading gains.
I think I need to start using Trading Accounts, if I want to
obtain a more accurate set of accounts.
For what it is worth, I have been relying on my brokerage accounts
to determine gains and losses for tax purposes.
I am thinking about copying my production GC file to my test
computer and run balance sheet and income and expense for ye 2017
and compare. I think it will be significant.
Les
p.s.: I did read the the link from Christopher.
On 02/12/2018 12:05 PM, David Carlson wrote:
If you read Christopher's links, they go into the theory behind
the development of trading accounts.
I personally do not need them for my use, so I am not conversant
with how they work.
I think that you may need them, based on the fact that you are
looking into using them, but I cannot help with details.
Perhaps another user that does use them can chime in (hint Hint)
David C
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Les <lellio...@gmail.com
<mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I use, in addition to USD. AUD, HKD, CAD, CNY and SGD. I buy
in tranches for average cost. So, not sure that means I have
complicated trades but I make sure I never have any orphan
accounts. I checked my test file for capital and it did not
list any. Although, at the bottom of my accounts list, there
is a list of currencies and exchanges with totals for each.
But, again, there isn't any difference in income and expenses.
Les
On 02/12/2018 08:18 AM, David Carlson wrote:
UnfOrtumately I cannot read the article that zchristofer
cited from my
clunky Tablet ant tablet really messes up mystery
composition skills.
I think that if you have always correctly calculated
every capital gain in
every closing transaction and never had any ambiguously
matched lots there
will not be any overall difference with or without
trading accounts.
I would guess trading accounts help the most for users
with more
complicated trades.
I am sure that you would need to drill down to the
capital gains and
incomes in closing transactions to see where the T A
could make a
difference.
David C
On Feb 12, 2018 6:53 AM, "Christopher Lam"
<christopher@gmail.com
<mailto:christopher@gmail.com>>
wrote:
Hi Les
Really interesting question, with a simple and a
complicated answer.
Simple answer: I think Trial Balance would differ if
you deal with
multiple currencies or stock (i.e. multiple
conversions with differing
dates and prices).
Complicated answer:
https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html
<https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/%7Eselinger/accounting/tutorial.html>
https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html
<https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/%7Eselinger/accounting/gnucash.html>
C
On 12/02/18 20:41, Les wrote:
I have a "test" laptop with GC 2.6.17 running the
latest Linux Mint. I
opened GC and tried using Trading Accounts, did
check and repair, noted the
totals of assets, liabilities, income and expense
before and after. There
was no difference. I then ran a Income and
Expense r
Re: Trading Accounts
Be sure to compare what Gnucash generates to what your broker reports to the government. Gnucash has trouble calculating the net gain that the IRS wants to see. Many of us still use spreadsheet s to compare to the brokerage reports that are sent to the IRS. David C On Feb 12, 2018 2:27 PM, "Les" <lellio...@gmail.com> wrote: > I ran a balance sheet for 2016 and compared the two. Everything looks the > same until I reach the equity account. Here is where the difference occurs > (and I completely missed it initially). In the GC file without the use of > Trading Accounts, I have unrealized gains, whereas in the GC file using > Trading Accounts, I have trading gains. > I think I need to start using Trading Accounts, if I want to obtain a more > accurate set of accounts. > > For what it is worth, I have been relying on my brokerage accounts to > determine gains and losses for tax purposes. > > I am thinking about copying my production GC file to my test computer and > run balance sheet and income and expense for ye 2017 and compare. I think > it will be significant. > > > Les > p.s.: I did read the the link from Christopher. > > > On 02/12/2018 12:05 PM, David Carlson wrote: > > If you read Christopher's links, they go into the theory behind the > development of trading accounts. > > I personally do not need them for my use, so I am not conversant with how > they work. > > I think that you may need them, based on the fact that you are looking > into using them, but I cannot help with details. > > Perhaps another user that does use them can chime in (hint Hint) > > David C > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Les <lellio...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I use, in addition to USD. AUD, HKD, CAD, CNY and SGD. I buy in tranches >> for average cost. So, not sure that means I have complicated trades but I >> make sure I never have any orphan accounts. I checked my test file for >> capital and it did not list any. Although, at the bottom of my accounts >> list, there is a list of currencies and exchanges with totals for each. >> But, again, there isn't any difference in income and expenses. >> >> Les >> >> On 02/12/2018 08:18 AM, David Carlson wrote: >> >>> UnfOrtumately I cannot read the article that zchristofer cited from my >>> clunky Tablet ant tablet really messes up mystery composition skills. >>> >>> I think that if you have always correctly calculated every capital gain >>> in >>> every closing transaction and never had any ambiguously matched lots >>> there >>> will not be any overall difference with or without trading accounts. >>> >>> I would guess trading accounts help the most for users with more >>> complicated trades. >>> >>> I am sure that you would need to drill down to the capital gains and >>> incomes in closing transactions to see where the T A could make a >>> difference. >>> >>> David C >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2018 6:53 AM, "Christopher Lam" <christopher@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Les >>>> >>>> Really interesting question, with a simple and a complicated answer. >>>> >>>> Simple answer: I think Trial Balance would differ if you deal with >>>> multiple currencies or stock (i.e. multiple conversions with differing >>>> dates and prices). >>>> >>>> Complicated answer: >>>> >>>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html >>>> >>>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html >>>> >>>> C >>>> >>>> On 12/02/18 20:41, Les wrote: >>>> >>>> I have a "test" laptop with GC 2.6.17 running the latest Linux Mint. I >>>>> opened GC and tried using Trading Accounts, did check and repair, >>>>> noted the >>>>> totals of assets, liabilities, income and expense before and after. >>>>> There >>>>> was no difference. I then ran a Income and Expense report for year >>>>> 2016 >>>>> (which is the same as my production GC and compared the two. Again >>>>> there >>>>> was no difference in totals between the two GC files. >>>>> >>>>> So, exactly what does Trading Accounts actually do? I noticed that when >>>>> viewing a stock transaction using auto-split view, there are added >>>>> lines >>>>> showing trading: cu
Re: Trading Accounts
I ran a balance sheet for 2016 and compared the two. Everything looks
the same until I reach the equity account. Here is where the difference
occurs (and I completely missed it initially). In the GC file without
the use of Trading Accounts, I have unrealized gains, whereas in the GC
file using Trading Accounts, I have trading gains.
I think I need to start using Trading Accounts, if I want to obtain a
more accurate set of accounts.
For what it is worth, I have been relying on my brokerage accounts to
determine gains and losses for tax purposes.
I am thinking about copying my production GC file to my test computer
and run balance sheet and income and expense for ye 2017 and compare. I
think it will be significant.
Les
p.s.: I did read the the link from Christopher.
On 02/12/2018 12:05 PM, David Carlson wrote:
If you read Christopher's links, they go into the theory behind the
development of trading accounts.
I personally do not need them for my use, so I am not conversant with
how they work.
I think that you may need them, based on the fact that you are looking
into using them, but I cannot help with details.
Perhaps another user that does use them can chime in (hint Hint)
David C
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Les <lellio...@gmail.com
<mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I use, in addition to USD. AUD, HKD, CAD, CNY and SGD. I buy in
tranches for average cost. So, not sure that means I have
complicated trades but I make sure I never have any orphan
accounts. I checked my test file for capital and it did not list
any. Although, at the bottom of my accounts list, there is a list
of currencies and exchanges with totals for each. But, again,
there isn't any difference in income and expenses.
Les
On 02/12/2018 08:18 AM, David Carlson wrote:
UnfOrtumately I cannot read the article that zchristofer cited
from my
clunky Tablet ant tablet really messes up mystery composition
skills.
I think that if you have always correctly calculated every
capital gain in
every closing transaction and never had any ambiguously
matched lots there
will not be any overall difference with or without trading
accounts.
I would guess trading accounts help the most for users with more
complicated trades.
I am sure that you would need to drill down to the capital
gains and
incomes in closing transactions to see where the T A could make a
difference.
David C
On Feb 12, 2018 6:53 AM, "Christopher Lam"
<christopher@gmail.com <mailto:christopher@gmail.com>>
wrote:
Hi Les
Really interesting question, with a simple and a
complicated answer.
Simple answer: I think Trial Balance would differ if you
deal with
multiple currencies or stock (i.e. multiple conversions
with differing
dates and prices).
Complicated answer:
https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html
<https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/%7Eselinger/accounting/tutorial.html>
https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html
<https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/%7Eselinger/accounting/gnucash.html>
C
On 12/02/18 20:41, Les wrote:
I have a "test" laptop with GC 2.6.17 running the
latest Linux Mint. I
opened GC and tried using Trading Accounts, did check
and repair, noted the
totals of assets, liabilities, income and expense
before and after. There
was no difference. I then ran a Income and Expense
report for year 2016
(which is the same as my production GC and compared
the two. Again there
was no difference in totals between the two GC files.
So, exactly what does Trading Accounts actually do? I
noticed that when
viewing a stock transaction using auto-split view,
there are added lines
showing trading: currencies and trading: exchange and
stock symbol, that
does not appear without trading accounts.
Thanks,
Les
On 02/12/2018 04:41 AM, David Carlson wrote:
It would be more fun to make a test copy of an
existing file!
David C
On Feb 12, 2018 4:13 AM, "Les"
<lellio...@gmail.com <mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>
mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>>>
wrote:
Re: Trading Accounts
If you read Christopher's links, they go into the theory behind the development of trading accounts. I personally do not need them for my use, so I am not conversant with how they work. I think that you may need them, based on the fact that you are looking into using them, but I cannot help with details. Perhaps another user that does use them can chime in (hint Hint) David C On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Les <lellio...@gmail.com> wrote: > I use, in addition to USD. AUD, HKD, CAD, CNY and SGD. I buy in tranches > for average cost. So, not sure that means I have complicated trades but I > make sure I never have any orphan accounts. I checked my test file for > capital and it did not list any. Although, at the bottom of my accounts > list, there is a list of currencies and exchanges with totals for each. > But, again, there isn't any difference in income and expenses. > > Les > > On 02/12/2018 08:18 AM, David Carlson wrote: > >> UnfOrtumately I cannot read the article that zchristofer cited from my >> clunky Tablet ant tablet really messes up mystery composition skills. >> >> I think that if you have always correctly calculated every capital gain in >> every closing transaction and never had any ambiguously matched lots there >> will not be any overall difference with or without trading accounts. >> >> I would guess trading accounts help the most for users with more >> complicated trades. >> >> I am sure that you would need to drill down to the capital gains and >> incomes in closing transactions to see where the T A could make a >> difference. >> >> David C >> >> >> >> On Feb 12, 2018 6:53 AM, "Christopher Lam" <christopher@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Les >>> >>> Really interesting question, with a simple and a complicated answer. >>> >>> Simple answer: I think Trial Balance would differ if you deal with >>> multiple currencies or stock (i.e. multiple conversions with differing >>> dates and prices). >>> >>> Complicated answer: >>> >>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html >>> >>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html >>> >>> C >>> >>> On 12/02/18 20:41, Les wrote: >>> >>> I have a "test" laptop with GC 2.6.17 running the latest Linux Mint. I >>>> opened GC and tried using Trading Accounts, did check and repair, noted >>>> the >>>> totals of assets, liabilities, income and expense before and after. >>>> There >>>> was no difference. I then ran a Income and Expense report for year 2016 >>>> (which is the same as my production GC and compared the two. Again >>>> there >>>> was no difference in totals between the two GC files. >>>> >>>> So, exactly what does Trading Accounts actually do? I noticed that when >>>> viewing a stock transaction using auto-split view, there are added lines >>>> showing trading: currencies and trading: exchange and stock symbol, that >>>> does not appear without trading accounts. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Les >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02/12/2018 04:41 AM, David Carlson wrote: >>>> >>>> It would be more fun to make a test copy of an existing file! >>>>> >>>>> David C >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 4:13 AM, "Les" <lellio...@gmail.com >>>> lellio...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, Adrien, David & Christoph for your replies. I think >>>>> opening a new GC file and testing Trading Accounts is a good idea. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Les >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 02/12/2018 01:40 AM, Christoph R wrote: >>>>> >>>>> And run “Actions -> Check & Repair -> Check & Repair All” to >>>>> add the needed splits to existing transactions. >>>>> >>>>> Gruß, >>>>> Christoph >>>>> >>>>> Am 12.02.2018 um 01:27 schrieb David Carlson >>>>> <david.carlson@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:david.carlson@gmail.com>>: >>>>> >>>>> I think that if you want
Re: Trading Accounts
Hi Les Really interesting question, with a simple and a complicated answer. Simple answer: I think Trial Balance would differ if you deal with multiple currencies or stock (i.e. multiple conversions with differing dates and prices). Complicated answer: https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/gnucash.html C On 12/02/18 20:41, Les wrote: I have a "test" laptop with GC 2.6.17 running the latest Linux Mint. I opened GC and tried using Trading Accounts, did check and repair, noted the totals of assets, liabilities, income and expense before and after. There was no difference. I then ran a Income and Expense report for year 2016 (which is the same as my production GC and compared the two. Again there was no difference in totals between the two GC files. So, exactly what does Trading Accounts actually do? I noticed that when viewing a stock transaction using auto-split view, there are added lines showing trading: currencies and trading: exchange and stock symbol, that does not appear without trading accounts. Thanks, Les On 02/12/2018 04:41 AM, David Carlson wrote: It would be more fun to make a test copy of an existing file! David C On Feb 12, 2018 4:13 AM, "Les" <lellio...@gmail.com <mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks, Adrien, David & Christoph for your replies. I think opening a new GC file and testing Trading Accounts is a good idea. Regards, Les On 02/12/2018 01:40 AM, Christoph R wrote: And run “Actions -> Check & Repair -> Check & Repair All” to add the needed splits to existing transactions. Gruß, Christoph Am 12.02.2018 um 01:27 schrieb David Carlson <david.carlson@gmail.com <mailto:david.carlson@gmail.com>>: I think that if you want to stop using trading account s it is difficult to turn them off. I would set up a test file to try them on until you decide whether you like them. David C On Feb 11, 2018 5:39 PM, "Adrien Monteleone" <adrien.montele...@gmail.com <mailto:adrien.montele...@gmail.com>> wrote: Yes, you can add trading accounts (or any other accounts) as needed to your current file. Regards, Adrien On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Les <lellio...@gmail.com <mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>> wrote: I have been using GC for several years, and although I trade stocks, I have never used the "Trading Accounts" option. Can I just start using it, or would I need to start a new GC file? Thanks, Les ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user <https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists> for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user <https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists> for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user <https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/lis
Re: Trading Accounts
I have a "test" laptop with GC 2.6.17 running the latest Linux Mint. I
opened GC and tried using Trading Accounts, did check and repair, noted
the totals of assets, liabilities, income and expense before and after.
There was no difference. I then ran a Income and Expense report for
year 2016 (which is the same as my production GC and compared the two.
Again there was no difference in totals between the two GC files.
So, exactly what does Trading Accounts actually do? I noticed that when
viewing a stock transaction using auto-split view, there are added lines
showing trading: currencies and trading: exchange and stock symbol, that
does not appear without trading accounts.
Thanks,
Les
On 02/12/2018 04:41 AM, David Carlson wrote:
It would be more fun to make a test copy of an existing file!
David C
On Feb 12, 2018 4:13 AM, "Les" <lellio...@gmail.com
<mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks, Adrien, David & Christoph for your replies. I think
opening a new GC file and testing Trading Accounts is a good idea.
Regards,
Les
On 02/12/2018 01:40 AM, Christoph R wrote:
And run “Actions -> Check & Repair -> Check & Repair All” to
add the needed splits to existing transactions.
Gruß,
Christoph
Am 12.02.2018 um 01:27 schrieb David Carlson
<david.carlson@gmail.com
<mailto:david.carlson@gmail.com>>:
I think that if you want to stop using trading account s
it is difficult to
turn them off.
I would set up a test file to try them on until you decide
whether you like
them.
David C
On Feb 11, 2018 5:39 PM, "Adrien Monteleone"
<adrien.montele...@gmail.com
<mailto:adrien.montele...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
Yes, you can add trading accounts (or any other
accounts) as needed to your
current file.
Regards,
Adrien
On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Les
<lellio...@gmail.com <mailto:lellio...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I have been using GC for several years, and
although I trade stocks, I
have never used the "Trading Accounts" option.
Can I just start using
it,
or would I need to start a new GC file?
Thanks,
Les
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Re: Trading Accounts
It would be more fun to make a test copy of an existing file! David C On Feb 12, 2018 4:13 AM, "Les" <lellio...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, Adrien, David & Christoph for your replies. I think opening a new > GC file and testing Trading Accounts is a good idea. > > Regards, > > Les > > > On 02/12/2018 01:40 AM, Christoph R wrote: > >> And run “Actions -> Check & Repair -> Check & Repair All” to add the >> needed splits to existing transactions. >> >> Gruß, >> Christoph >> >> Am 12.02.2018 um 01:27 schrieb David Carlson <david.carlson@gmail.com >>> >: >>> >>> I think that if you want to stop using trading account s it is difficult >>> to >>> turn them off. >>> >>> I would set up a test file to try them on until you decide whether you >>> like >>> them. >>> >>> David C >>> >>> On Feb 11, 2018 5:39 PM, "Adrien Monteleone" < >>> adrien.montele...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Yes, you can add trading accounts (or any other accounts) as needed to >>>> your >>>> current file. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Adrien >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Les <lellio...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have been using GC for several years, and although I trade stocks, I >>>>> have never used the "Trading Accounts" option. Can I just start using >>>>> >>>> it, >>>> >>>>> or would I need to start a new GC file? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Les >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>>>> - >>>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>>>> >>>> ___ >>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>>> - >>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>>> >>>> ___ >>> gnucash-user mailing list >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>> - >>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> >> ___ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> - >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts
And run “Actions -> Check & Repair -> Check & Repair All” to add the needed splits to existing transactions. Gruß, Christoph > Am 12.02.2018 um 01:27 schrieb David Carlson <david.carlson@gmail.com>: > > I think that if you want to stop using trading account s it is difficult to > turn them off. > > I would set up a test file to try them on until you decide whether you like > them. > > David C > > On Feb 11, 2018 5:39 PM, "Adrien Monteleone" <adrien.montele...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Yes, you can add trading accounts (or any other accounts) as needed to your >> current file. >> >> Regards, >> Adrien >> >> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Les <lellio...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I have been using GC for several years, and although I trade stocks, I >>> have never used the "Trading Accounts" option. Can I just start using >> it, >>> or would I need to start a new GC file? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Les >>> >>> ___ >>> gnucash-user mailing list >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>> - >>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> ___ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> - >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: Trading Accounts
I think that if you want to stop using trading account s it is difficult to turn them off. I would set up a test file to try them on until you decide whether you like them. David C On Feb 11, 2018 5:39 PM, "Adrien Monteleone" <adrien.montele...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes, you can add trading accounts (or any other accounts) as needed to your > current file. > > Regards, > Adrien > > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Les <lellio...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I have been using GC for several years, and although I trade stocks, I > > have never used the "Trading Accounts" option. Can I just start using > it, > > or would I need to start a new GC file? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Les > > > > ___ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > > - > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Trading Accounts
I have been using GC for several years, and although I trade stocks, I have never used the "Trading Accounts" option. Can I just start using it, or would I need to start a new GC file? Thanks, Les ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
