Re: [Goanet] Re: Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re bogus charges of imperialism)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Vidyadhar Gadgil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The dangers of such confusion are clear, to make an analogy, what if people the world over start blaming Christians in general and 'Christian religious authorities' for the imperialist agenda of George Bush, which is clearly motivated by his skewed interpretation of Christian fundamentalist doctrine? Question everything -- Karl Marx Mario responds: Vidhyadhar, You were doing fine until your deep seated Marxist sentiments got the better of you. Like your icon, Karl Marx, a REAL imperialist on behalf of communism, you also failed to question your own vicious and unsubstantiated accusation before gratuitously including it in a totally unrelated subject, though you recommend to us in every Goanet post that we question everything. As a Marxist on the losing side of history you probably dislike President Bush's policy of encouraging freedom and democracy around the world as a pre-requisite to a lasting world peace. God knows you Marxists tried REAL imperialism for decades until your philosophy imploded under failed economic policies that could not sustain your imperialist ambitions. As a Marxist you would obviously resent President Bush's open acknowledgment of his personal Christian faith. However, I defy you to find any public statement by him of using his faith to justify any US policy, or of being accused by any responsible American political opponent, of which he has many, that he has done so. All he has affirmed is that he prays for the strength to do what is right. That must grate like nails across a chalkboard to any committed Marxist. Perhaps, like Marxists worldwide, you also resent the liberation of Muslim populations from Muslim tyrants, and have the same contempt for the three successful elections in Iraq. Perhaps, like Marxists worldwide, you support a weak and feckless UN, that allowed 16 UN resolutions to be laughed at by Iraq, aided and abetted by Russia, China and France. Your accusation against President Bush of a renegade Christian imperialism is false on it's face. It shows an abysmal ignorance of his documented reluctance to engage in nation building, which led to squeals of protest worldwide in 2001 that the US was becoming isolationist. It was Osama Bin Laden that declared war on the US in 1998 at the height of Bill Clinton's appeasement-oriented administration which emboldened the Islamic terrorists you seem to sympathize with by failing to respond to a series of attacks against US interests throughout the 90's. Even after 9/11, President Bush first asked the UN to take the lead and waited for them to fail to do so before attacking the Taliban that was harboring Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. President Bush then asked the UN again to bring Saddam to heel for his failure to comply with 16 UN resolutions that required him to account for the destruction of his WMD's. It was only after Iraq failed to comply with UN resolution 1441 which threatened serious consequences, and France said they would oppose any UN led action to bring Saddam to account no matter what in the infamous words of Dominic de Villepin, that the US decided to form a coalition and liberate Iraq. You also seem to be unaware that it was Bill Clinton who asked for and signed the Iraq Liberation Act in 1998 based on Iraq's failure to account for it's WMD's and the fear that he would provide these to the enemies of the US who had declared war on the US. It would behoove you to know the facts of the 12-year run up to the liberation of Iraq and the US commitment, repeated just this month, to leave Iraq as soon as the Iraqi government asks it to do so. Also, if the US was interested in imperialism, why did it leave and go home in 1991, when it controlled virtually the entire middle-east after the first Gulf War, and why, in spite of being the world's only super-power, is there not a single US ruled territory anywhere in the world outside it's traditional territories? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re evangelisation)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- On 22/06/06, Vidyadhar Gadgil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet] Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re evangelisation) The Pope is talking about conversions that take place in India voluntarily. MV Kamath, writes this in his letter: The Pope owes an apology to Hindus and to India on bended knees. M.V. Kamath is a well-known ideologue and apologist for the Sangh Parivar, and need not be taken seriously. Or maybe one could say that K.S. Sudarshan owes an apology to Christians and the Vatican on bended knees :-) RESPONSE: The post was forwarded from a communist news source! Please, this kind of confusion is dangerous. What Hindu religious authorities? Since when did the Bajrang Dal and the BJP and their brethren acquire the status of religious authorities? We must always be careful to distinguish between Hinduism (the religion) and Hindutva (the political ideology). The dangers of such confusion are clear, to make an analogy, what if people the world over start blaming Christians in general and 'Christian religious authorities' for the imperialist agenda of George Bush, which is clearly motivated by his skewed interpretation of Christian fundamentalist doctrine? -- Question everything -- Karl Marx RESPONSE: Believe it or not! I and many others who oppose George Bush's and Tony Blair's doctrine, are many times tarred with the same brush...but we soldier on. You are on the ball, about being mindful, of being absolutely correct about our perceptions. We have to be clear, whom we point the finger at! These right wing fundamentalists, of whatever creed or beliefs, are an ill wind that blows nobody any good. -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re evangelisation)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Dear Vid, We seem to be on agreement on the whole. When I referred to Hindu religious authorities, I did not mean the polity. I meant was there a collective apology to Christians, on behalf of Hindus for the atrocities carried out. In general, I do not seek apologies because I really do think they are redundant. My point was simply that there has been insanity on all fronts in the name of religion. Let that be water under the bridge and let's move on as a secular India. Elisabeth --- We must always be careful to distinguish between Hinduism (the religion) and Hindutva (the political ideology). The dangers of such confusion are clear, to make an analogy, what if people the world over start blaming Christians in general and 'Christian religious authorities' for the imperialist agenda of George Bush, which is clearly motivated by his skewed interpretation of Christian fundamentalist doctrine? -- Question everything -- Karl Marx _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re evangelisation)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 17:22 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet] Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re evangelisation) The Pope is talking about conversions that take place in India voluntarily. And it is the moral right of every human being to convert if he so desires. Certainly. That is what is so objectionable about all these anti-conversion laws being passed in BJP-ruled states. The Indian constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and the freedom to convert is implicitly guaranteed as well. George's idea of a moratorium on evangelisation/proselytisation is certainly good -- as long as it is self-imposed, and not brought in through clearly unconstitutional legislation. There are certainly some 'forceful' conversions still taking place, but the existing laws which bar the use of material inducements already cover this aspect. MV Kamath, writes this in his letter: The Pope owes an apology to Hindus and to India on bended knees. M.V. Kamath is a well-known ideologue and apologist for the Sangh Parivar, and need not be taken seriously. Or maybe one could say that K.S. Sudarshan owes an apology to Christians and the Vatican on bended knees :-) Really, did Hindu religious authorities offer apologies to Christians or the Pope, when they saw fit to burn Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two sons. Please, this kind of confusion is dangerous. What Hindu religious authorities? Since when did the Bajrang Dal and the BJP and their brethren acquire the status of religious authorities? We must always be careful to distinguish between Hinduism (the religion) and Hindutva (the political ideology). The dangers of such confusion are clear, to make an analogy, what if people the world over start blaming Christians in general and 'Christian religious authorities' for the imperialist agenda of George Bush, which is clearly motivated by his skewed interpretation of Christian fundamentalist doctrine? -- Question everything -- Karl Marx _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: Further to the Da Vinci Code
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- Hi Cornel I had previously suggested an indefinite moratorium on evangelization and proselytizing (not just in Goa/India but around the world). Given the high levels of intolerance these days by fundamentalists in all religions (including Christianity), this is the only way to prevent communal fires from being stoked. Regards, George --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Goanetters, The people of Goa have demonstrated muscle over the Da Vinci Code whether we agree with this or not, and the mechanism by which this was achieved. I now sincerely hope that, such muscle will be shown against the highly risky and misguided business of the Catholic Church in its assertiveness over evangelisation in India. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
