Re: [Haskell-cafe] QuickCheck 2

2010-06-10 Thread wren ng thornton
wren ng thornton wrote: Since GHC 6.12 ships with QC2 it looks like it's finally time to get around to converting some old testing scripts. Unfortunately, one of the things I couldn't figure out last time I looked (and hence why I haven't switched) is how to reconfigure the configuration

Re: [Haskell-cafe] QuickCheck 2

2010-06-10 Thread wren ng thornton
Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org writes: Since GHC 6.12 ships with QC2 it looks like it's finally time to get around to converting some old testing scripts. Well, the Haskell Platform does, not GHC... Fair enough (it was one of the two :) Unfortunately

[Haskell-cafe] ANN: bytestring-trie 0.2.2 (major bugfix)

2010-06-10 Thread wren ng thornton
-- bytestring-trie 0.2.2 (major bugfix) Another release for efficient finite maps from (byte)strings to values. This version corrects a major bug affecting all users who merge tries.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Proposal: Sum type branches as extended types (as Type!Constructor)

2010-06-07 Thread wren ng thornton
Gabriel Riba wrote: New proposal draft: Proposal: Type supplement for constructor specific uses of sum types Purpose: Avoid error clauses (runtime errors), exception control or Maybe types in partially defined (constructor specific) functions on sum types. As an example, with data List a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: random-fu 0.1.0.0

2010-06-07 Thread wren ng thornton
James Andrew Cook wrote: In particular, functions such as 'uniform' and 'normal' which directly construct RVars are very useful in defining the rvar implementation of other types. I have been reluctant to drop the rvar function from the Distribution class because it is very useful to be able

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Span function

2010-06-07 Thread wren ng thornton
R J wrote: Can someone provide a hand calculation of: span ( 0) [-1, -2, -3, 0, 1, 2, -3, -4, -5]? I know the result is ([-1, -2, -3], [0, 1, 2, -3, -4, -5]), but the recursion flummoxes me. Here's the Prelude definition: First, let's simplify the definition. span _ [] = ([],

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Proposal: Sum type branches as extended types (as Type!Constructor)

2010-06-03 Thread wren ng thornton
Jake McArthur wrote: On 06/03/2010 10:14 AM, Gabriel Riba wrote: No need for runtime errors or exception control hd :: List!Cons a - a hd (Cons x _) = x This is already doable using GADTs: data Z data S n data List a n where Nil :: List a Z Cons :: a -

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: random-fu 0.1.0.0

2010-06-03 Thread wren ng thornton
Richard O'Keefe wrote: There's something in that package that I don't understand, and I feel really stupid about this. data RVarT m a type RVar = RVarT Identity class Distribution d t where rvar :: d t - RVar t rvarT :: d t - RVarT n t Where does n come from? Presumably from

[Haskell-cafe] ANN: list-extras 0.4.0

2010-06-01 Thread wren ng thornton
-- list-extras 0.4.0 A minor (but interface-changing) release for common not-so-common functions for lists. -- Changes (since 0.3.0)

Re: [Haskell-cafe] A question on existential types and Church encoding

2010-05-30 Thread wren ng thornton
Jason Dagit wrote: In Church's λ-calc the types are ignored, Not so. Church-style lambda calculus is the one where types matter; Curry-style is the one that ignores types and evaluates as if it were the untyped lambda calculus. Church encodings are based on the untyped LC rather than

Re: [Haskell-cafe] currying combinators

2010-05-28 Thread wren ng thornton
Lennart Augustsson wrote: So what would you consider a proof that there are no total Haskell functions of that type? Or, using Curry-Howard, a proof that the corresponding logical formula is unprovable in intuitionistic logic? It depends on what kind of proof I'm looking for. If I'm looking

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Chuch encoding of data structures in Haskell

2010-05-28 Thread wren ng thornton
Ivan Miljenovic wrote: On 28 May 2010 15:18, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: Stefan Monnier wrote: churchedBool :: t - t - t Important detail: the precise type is ∀t. t → t → t. encodeBool x = \t e - if x then t else e So the type of encodeBool should be: Bool → ∀t. t → t → t

Re: [Haskell-cafe] currying combinators

2010-05-28 Thread wren ng thornton
Lennart Augustsson wrote: Yes, of course you have to trust Djinn to believe its proof. That's no different from having to trust me if I had done the proof by hand. Our you would have to trust yourself if you did the proof. True, though I think I didn't make my point clearly. The question is,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] currying combinators

2010-05-27 Thread wren ng thornton
David Sankel wrote: keep :: ((t - b) - u - b) - ((t1 - t) - b) - (t1 - u) - b On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Lennart Augustsson lenn...@augustsson.net wrote: There are no interesting (i.e. total) functions of that type. I wonder how one would prove that to be the case. I tried and

Re: [Haskell-cafe] currying combinators

2010-05-27 Thread wren ng thornton
wren ng thornton wrote: David Sankel wrote: keep :: ((t - b) - u - b) - ((t1 - t) - b) - (t1 - u) - b Lennart Augustsson wrote: There are no interesting (i.e. total) functions of that type. I wonder how one would prove that to be the case. I tried and didn't come up with anything

Re: [Haskell-cafe] currying combinators

2010-05-27 Thread wren ng thornton
Dan Doel wrote: On Thursday 27 May 2010 3:27:58 am wren ng thornton wrote: By parametricty, presumably. Actually, I imagine the way he proved it was to use djinn, which uses a complete decision procedure for intuitionistic propositional logic. The proofs of theorems for that logic

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Chuch encoding of data structures in Haskell

2010-05-27 Thread wren ng thornton
Stefan Monnier wrote: churchedBool :: t - t - t Important detail: the precise type is ∀t. t → t → t. encodeBool x = \t e - if x then t else e So the type of encodeBool should be: Bool → ∀t. t → t → t whereas Haskell will infer it to be ∀t. Bool → t → t → t Those are the same type.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] currying combinators

2010-05-27 Thread wren ng thornton
Dan Doel wrote: On Thursday 27 May 2010 1:49:36 pm wren ng thornton wrote: Sure, that's another option. But the failure of exhaustive search isn't a constructive/intuitionistic technique, so not everyone would accept the proof. Djinn is essentially an implementation of reasoning

Re: [Haskell-cafe] double2Float is faster than (fromRational . toRational)

2010-05-23 Thread wren ng thornton
Daniel Fischer wrote: There are more rules elsewhere. If you compile with optimisations, GHC turns your realToFrac into double2Float# nicely, so it's okay to use realToFrac. However, without optimisations, no rules fire, so you'll get (fromRational . toRational). That must be new, because it

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Speed of Error handling with Continuations vs. Eithers

2010-05-13 Thread wren ng thornton
Andrea Vezzosi wrote: wren ng thornton wrote: With this change [1] I can't notice any difference for your benchmark[2]. Then again, all the runTest calls take 0 msec and I've had no luck making the computation take much time; perhaps your computer can detect a difference. On my machine

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Speed of Error handling with Continuations vs. Eithers

2010-05-13 Thread wren ng thornton
Antoine Latter wrote: While I also offer a transformer version of MaybeCPS, the transformer *does* suffer from significant slowdown. Also, for MaybeCPS it's better to leave the handlers inline in client code rather than to abstract them out; that helps to keep things concrete. So perhaps you

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Speed of Error handling with Continuations vs. Eithers

2010-05-13 Thread wren ng thornton
Andrea Vezzosi wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:51 AM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: Andrea Vezzosi wrote: wren ng thornton wrote: With this change [1] I can't notice any difference for your benchmark[2]. Then again, all the runTest calls take 0 msec and I've had no luck making

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Speed of Error handling with Continuations vs. Eithers

2010-05-11 Thread wren ng thornton
Max Cantor wrote: Based on some discussions in #haskell, it seemed to be a consensus that using a modified continuation monad for Error handling instead of Eithers would be a significant optimization since it would eliminate a lot of conditional branching (everytime = is called in the Either

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Speed of Error handling with Continuations vs. Eithers

2010-05-11 Thread wren ng thornton
wren ng thornton wrote: Here's one big difference: newtype ErrCPS e m a = ErrCPS { runErrCPS :: forall r . (e - m r) -- error handler - (a - m r) -- success handler - m r } The analogous version I use is: newtype MaybeCPS a = MaybeCPS (forall r. (a - Maybe r

Re: [Haskell-cafe] IO (Either a Error) question

2010-05-09 Thread wren ng thornton
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote: It's not a call, it's a definition as shown above. The simpler translation is: x - y becomes y = \x - (note incomplete expression; the next line must complete it) and the refutable pattern match takes place in the lambda binding. But because of the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell and the Software design process

2010-05-09 Thread wren ng thornton
Rafael Cunha de Almeida wrote: I don't think that safeSecondElement is worse than secondElement. I think it's better for the program to crash right away when you try to do something that doesn't make sense. Getting the secondElement of a list with one or less elements doesn't make sense, so you

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell and the Software design process

2010-05-09 Thread wren ng thornton
Gregory Crosswhite wrote: Yes, but I think that it is also important to distinguish between cases where an error is expected to be able to occur at runtime, and cases where an error could only occur at runtime *if the programmer screwed up*. Well sure, but how can you demonstrate that you (the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] mixing map and mapM ?

2010-05-09 Thread wren ng thornton
Pierre-Etienne Meunier wrote: This way : do times-mapM PF.getFileStatus filenames = return.(map PF.modificationTime) Or also : do times-mapM (PF.getFileStatus = (return.(PF.modificationTime))) filenames let sorted=... I do not know exactly how ghc compiles the IO

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Bulk Synchronous Parallel

2010-04-23 Thread wren ng thornton
Peter Gammie wrote: Alice/ML is the place to look for this technology. http://www.ps.uni-saarland.de/alice/ The project may be dead (I don't know), but they did have the most sophisticated take on pickling that I've seen. It's an ML variant, with futures, running on top of the same platform

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Proper Handling of Exceptional IEEE Floating Point Numbers

2010-04-23 Thread wren ng thornton
Casey McCann wrote: The only correct solution would be to strip floating point types of their instances for Ord, Eq, and--therefore, by extension--Num. For some reason, no one else seems to like that idea. I can't imagine why... I'm not terribly opposed to it. But then, I've also defined

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Move MonadIO to base

2010-04-19 Thread wren ng thornton
Anders Kaseorg wrote: Isaac Dupree wrote: Do you see the difference? The effects are sequenced in different places. The return/join pair moves all the effects *outside* the operations such as catch... thus defeating the entire purpose of morphIO. Yes; my question is more whether Wren has a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Move MonadIO to base

2010-04-19 Thread wren ng thornton
wren ng thornton wrote: Anders Kaseorg wrote: Isaac Dupree wrote: Do you see the difference? The effects are sequenced in different places. The return/join pair moves all the effects *outside* the operations such as catch... thus defeating the entire purpose of morphIO. Yes; my question

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Move MonadIO to base

2010-04-18 Thread wren ng thornton
This bounced because I have different emails registered for cafe@ and libraries@, so forwarding it along to the cafe. wren ng thornton wrote: wren ng thornton wrote: Heinrich Apfelmus wrote: Anders Kaseorg wrote: This concept can also be generalized to monad transformers: class MonadTrans

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: cabal: other-modules

2010-04-18 Thread wren ng thornton
Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: Why are people suddenly using the term morally when they mean why doesn't this do what I think it should? None of its definitions seem to match what you mean: The usage on this thread seems a bit nonstandard, but I'm assuming it's based off the more general idiom

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Cabal dependency hell

2010-04-13 Thread wren ng thornton
Duncan Coutts wrote: On Sun, 2010-04-11 at 18:43 +0200, Maciej Piechotka wrote: - Privacy problem. I don't want the software to call home with data without asking. Obviously it is important that the data be anonymous and that we do not send stuff without the user's knowledge. While there is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Cabal dependency hell

2010-04-13 Thread wren ng thornton
Ketil Malde wrote: Perhaps it would also be possible to suggest library upgrades likely to remedy the problem in case of a build failure? +1 for good error messages. +2 for should I try upgrading libfoo? [yn] integration (if configurable as AlwaysYes, AlwaysAsk, or AlwaysNo). -- Live

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org re-design

2010-04-08 Thread wren ng thornton
Ivan Lazar Miljenovic wrote: Thomas Schilling nomin...@googlemail.com writes: http://i.imgur.com/kFqP3.png Didn't know about CSS's rgba to describe transparency. Very useful. It's a vely nice!! (in a Borat voice) +1. Both for the design, and for the content. -- Live well, ~wren

Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell gsoc proposal for richer numerical type classes and supporting algorithms

2010-04-08 Thread wren ng thornton
Gregory Crosswhite wrote: On Apr 8, 2010, at 12:25 PM, Casey McCann wrote: Seriously, floating point so-called numbers don't even have reflexive equality! They don't? I am pretty sure that a floating point number is always equal to itself, with possibly a strange corner case for things

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Hackage accounts and real names

2010-04-06 Thread wren ng thornton
Ertugrul Soeylemez wrote: Human identity is much more than just a file descriptor or a map key, and people from academia often don't get this, because they don't have to fear using their real names. Particularly in economically illiberal countries being known as the author of a certain Haskell

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Apparently, Erlang does not have a static type system, since with hot code loading, this is intrinsically difficult.

2010-04-05 Thread wren ng thornton
Jason Dusek wrote: 2010/04/03 Casey Hawthorne cas...@istar.ca: Apparently, Erlang does not have a static type system, since with hot code loading, this is intrinsically difficult. It is doubtless hard to statically check a program that is not statically available :) Well, so long as you

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Data Structures GSoC

2010-03-31 Thread wren ng thornton
Nathan Hunter wrote: Hello. I am hoping to take on the Data Structures project proposed two years ago by Don Stewart herehttp://hackage.haskell.org/trac/summer-of-code/ticket/1549, this summer. Before I write up my proposal to Google, I wanted to gauge the reaction of the Haskell community to

[Haskell-cafe] ANN: logfloat 0.12.1

2010-03-31 Thread wren ng thornton
-- logfloat 0.12.1 This package provides a type for storing numbers in the log-domain, primarily useful for preventing underflow when multiplying many probabilities as in HMMs and other probabilistic

Re: [Haskell-cafe] More Language.C work for Google's Summer of Code

2010-03-30 Thread wren ng thornton
Stephen Tetley wrote: Much of the behaviour of CPP is not defined and often inaccurately described, certainly it wouldn't appear to make an ideal one summer, student project. But to give Language.C integrated support for preprocessing, one needn't implement CPP. They only need to implement the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?

2010-03-28 Thread wren ng thornton
Jon Fairbairn wrote: Another (provocative) observation is that most of the women programmers I've known were good at it and thought they might not be, but most of the men claimed to be good at it but were not. I've observed this too, but it's a bit droll. Let: p = proportion of people who

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?

2010-03-28 Thread wren ng thornton
Günther Schmidt wrote: One thing that I keep hearing is I'm not trying to be offensive. I think it's easy to get caught up on not being offensive so that we don't make any progress. It's impossible not to offend people -- but it is possible to take the time to listen and correct problematic

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?

2010-03-28 Thread wren ng thornton
Jason Dagit wrote: On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 8:29 PM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: Jon Fairbairn wrote: Another (provocative) observation is that most of the women programmers I've known were good at it and thought they might not be, but most of the men claimed to be good

Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC vs GCC

2010-03-27 Thread wren ng thornton
David Menendez wrote: On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Thomas DuBuisson thomas.dubuis...@gmail.com wrote: Using bang patterns didn't help almost anything here. Using rem instead of mod made the time go from 45s to 40s. Now, using -fvia-C really helped (when I used rem but not using mod). It

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any female Haskellers?

2010-03-27 Thread wren ng thornton
Alberto G. Corona wrote: because math abilities are not a -primary- reason for survival. Tools engineering and mastering is. I don't see the difference. Being able to use a lever, wheel, pulley, fire,... is obviously helpful for survival. But intellectual tools like mathematics, logic, and

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any female Haskellers?

2010-03-27 Thread wren ng thornton
wren ng thornton wrote: Alberto G. Corona wrote: because math abilities are not a -primary- reason for survival. Tools engineering and mastering is. I don't see the difference. (That is, the difference between CS and mathematics. Conversely, I don't see the similarity between physical

Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell platform questions

2010-03-24 Thread wren ng thornton
Gregory Collins wrote: wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org writes: w...@semiramis:~ $ ls /usr/local ls: /usr/local: No such file or directory w...@semiramis:~ $ ls /usr/bin/cabal ls: /usr/bin/cabal: No such file or directory But http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/new/contents.html tells me

Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell platform questions

2010-03-24 Thread wren ng thornton
Don Stewart wrote: You should file a bug on the Haskell Platform bug tracker. http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_Platform#Trouble_shooting And I'm CC'ing the dmg maintainer -- it may also be a GHC issue as well. -- Don warrensomebody: I downloaded the new

Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell platform questions

2010-03-22 Thread wren ng thornton
Gregory Collins wrote: wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org writes: I'm still on 10.5.8. I don't have cabal-install installed yet, but I just installed GHC-6.12.1/HP-2010.1.0.0. I can verify that ghci works fine so far. I'll check out cabal-install in the next couple days. If there is an issue

Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell platform questions

2010-03-21 Thread wren ng thornton
Gregory Collins wrote: Warren Harris warrensomeb...@gmail.com writes: I downloaded the new haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386.dmg today... ran the uninstaller, ghc installer and the platform installer. When I run ghci, it seems to work fine, but when I try cabal, I get this crash: $ cabal

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Parsec to parse tree structures?

2010-03-18 Thread wren ng thornton
Stephen Tetley wrote: hi wren Where I've used it, random access does seem conceptual more satisfactory than trying to avoid it. I was thinking more about performance issues (avoiding disk seeks) which would also alleviate the problem of needing random access when it's not available. For

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Parsec to parse tree structures?

2010-03-17 Thread wren ng thornton
david fries wrote: My my concern was how you would perform random access in a functional parser. You're points are interesting too. I guess if we really had wanted to work with parsed objects, retaining the shared references would have been a must. Out of curiosity, was there *really* a need

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: If wishes were horses...

2010-03-15 Thread wren ng thornton
Ben Millwood wrote: In general, laziness behaviour can get complicated quickly and so I'm not convinced that the type signature is a good home for that information. Certainly it can. A lot of the same problems arise in the logic programming community under the topic of modes, i.e. whether a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] generalized newtype deriving allows the definition of otherwise undefinable functions

2010-03-12 Thread wren ng thornton
Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Am Donnerstag, 11. März 2010 00:37:18 schrieb wren ng thornton: Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Hello, some time ago, it was pointed out that generalized newtype deriving could be used to circumvent module borders. Now, I found out that generalized newtype deriving can even

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: If wishes were horses...

2010-03-12 Thread wren ng thornton
Ketil Malde wrote: What should the type look like? If memory serves, Clean allows bangs in type signatures, something like: foldl' :: (a - b - a) - !a - [b] - a but I thought it just added a seq under the hood, much like bang patterns like foldl' f !z xs = ... do in Haskell, so it's

[Haskell-cafe] If wishes were horses... (was: Re: definition of sum)

2010-03-11 Thread wren ng thornton
David Leimbach wrote: Note that foldl' has a ' to indicate that it's not the same as foldl exactly. I would propose that sum' exist as well as sum, and that sum be lazy. I wish Haskell allowed ! to occur (non-initially) in alphanum_' identifiers as well as in symbolic ones. Then we could be

Re: [Haskell-cafe] generalized newtype deriving allows the definition of otherwise undefinable functions

2010-03-10 Thread wren ng thornton
Wolfgang Jeltsch wrote: Hello, some time ago, it was pointed out that generalized newtype deriving could be used to circumvent module borders. Now, I found out that generalized newtype deriving can even be used to define functions that would be impossible to define otherwise. To me, this is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Real-time garbage collection for Haskell

2010-03-04 Thread wren ng thornton
Simon Marlow wrote: So it would be pretty easy to provide something like disableMajorGC, enableMajorGC :: IO () Of course leaving it disabled too long could be bad, but that's your responsibility. It seems like it'd be preferable to have an interface like: withMajorGCDisabled :: IO()

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Pointfree composition for higher arity

2010-02-20 Thread wren ng thornton
Matt Hellige wrote: Thanks! I'm glad to know that people have found this approach useful. In cases where it works, I find it somewhat cleaner than families of combinators with (what I find to be) rather obscure names, or much worse, impenetrable sections of (.). We can write the original example

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Pointfree composition for higher arity

2010-02-19 Thread wren ng thornton
Sean Leather wrote: The second option approaches the ideal pointfreeness (or pointlessness if you prefer), but I'd like to go farther: (...) :: (c - d) - (a - b - c) - a - b - d (...) f g x y = f (g x y) infixr 9 ... I go with infixl 8 personally. It seems to play better with some of the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Linguistic hair-splitting

2010-02-14 Thread wren ng thornton
Alexander Solla wrote: On Jan 27, 2010, at 4:57 PM, Conor McBride wrote: Yes, the separation is not clear in Haskell. (I consider this unfortunate.) I was thinking of Paul Levy's call-by-push-value calculus, where the distinction is clear, but perhaps not as fluid as one might like. What,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: How many Haskell Engineer I/II/IIIs are there?

2010-02-14 Thread wren ng thornton
Michael Lesniak wrote: elegance of Haskell. Whether Haskell becomes an easy choice for commercial work or remains a boutique language depends on how easy it is to build today's applications. Do you (or anyone reading this thread) know of some kind of wishlist of missing features and/or

Re: [Haskell-cafe] FFI, C/C++ and undefined references

2010-01-18 Thread wren ng thornton
Stephen Tetley wrote: Also binding to a C library is easier than binding to a C++ one, if you can think of another library rather than SRILM that will meet your needs... Alas, SRILM really is the standard tool for this so there aren't other (worthwhile) options AFAIK. But it's pretty standard

Re: [Haskell-cafe] short licensing question

2010-01-11 Thread wren ng thornton
Sebastian Fischer wrote: What reasons do people have to use a BSD license over a Public Domain license, for example with the license text from: http://www.lemur.com/pd-disclaimers.html ? Is the only difference that, with a BSD license, the copyright notice must be maintained? One important

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Lambda's

2010-01-09 Thread wren ng thornton
Thomas DuBuisson wrote: - Michael Snoyman mich...@snoyman.com: - Ivan Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com: - Michael Snoyman mich...@snoyman.com: Some of us prefer not to look at that kind of material. I'd appreciate if, in the future, you could either refrain from sending such

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Data.Ring -- Pre-announce

2010-01-09 Thread wren ng thornton
Tom Tobin wrote: - Heinrich Apfelmus apfel...@quantentunnel.de wrote: Since the name Ring is already taken by an ubiquitous mathematical structure, and thus already in hackage for example as Algebra.Ring in the numeric-prelude , I suggest to call the data structure Necklace instead.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] install-dirs on Mac OS X

2009-12-25 Thread wren ng thornton
Graham Klyne wrote: Mark Lentczner wrote: [*] The Apple guidelines for the /Library and ~/Library files are here:http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFileSystem/Articles/LibraryDirectory.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20002282-BAJHCHJI Thanks for the link. I

Re: [Haskell-cafe] install-dirs on Mac OS X

2009-12-24 Thread wren ng thornton
Mark Lentczner wrote: First, we must look at how Apple intends the various Library directories to be used. Please see the Apple docs on it[* link below]. Essentially, /Library is the Mac OS X equivalent of /usr/local. However, I would be opposed to storing anything in /Library or /System.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC 6.12 on OS X 10.5

2009-12-22 Thread wren ng thornton
Aaron Tomb wrote: I've come across the issue with iconv, as well. The problem seems to be that some versions of iconv define iconv_open and some related functions as macros (that then call libiconv_open, etc.), and some versions of iconv have exported functions for everything. In particular,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] install-dirs on Mac OS X

2009-12-22 Thread wren ng thornton
Mark Lentczner wrote: Taking a cue from the various preinstalled language systems on Mac OS X, up over in /Library might be a better place: Python puts installed packages in: /Library/Python/version/site-packages Ruby puts installed packages in:

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: install-dirs on Mac OS X

2009-12-22 Thread wren ng thornton
Tom Tobin wrote: On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Heinrich Apfelmus apfel...@quantentunnel.de wrote: Likewise, ~/Library/Haskell seems to be the best place for user installs. While I don't mind the /Library/Haskell path for global installs, I'm not sure how I feel about this for local

Re: [Haskell-cafe] install-dirs on Mac OS X

2009-12-22 Thread wren ng thornton
Mark Lentczner wrote: On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:35 PM, Duncan Coutts wrote: One thing I think I've seen said before however is that things in /Library and ~/Library are supposed to be app bundles or frameworks or some other special OSX packaging thing, rather than traditional Unix-style

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Pattern matching, and bugs

2009-12-19 Thread wren ng thornton
Ketil Malde wrote: András Mocsáry amo...@gmail.com writes: Now we have a problem, which is most generally fixed in these ways: C-like: switch ( x ) { Case 0: Unchecked Case 1: Checked Case 2: Unknown Default: Nothing } This is not a fix, this is a workaround for a design bug, namely

Re: [Haskell-cafe] sizeOf on a type

2009-12-19 Thread wren ng thornton
Sean Leather wrote: I can see what's going on: it can't tell that the a I am writing there is the same a that's in the type specification, but is there any way that I can make it identify a with the a in the specification for nextPtr? Lexically scoped type variables:

[Haskell-cafe] naming naming conventions (was: Re: Allowing hyphens in identifiers)

2009-12-17 Thread wren ng thornton
Richard O'Keefe wrote: (Why do people call baStudly syle camel? Is there somewhere in the world a species of camel with three or four humps, like XmlNodeSansChildren?) camelCase differs from StudlyCaps in the case of the first character (that is, XmlNodeSansChildren is *not* camelCase). The

Re: [Haskell-cafe] What about adding a wiki for each haskell project?

2009-12-13 Thread wren ng thornton
Ketil Malde wrote: wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org writes: Using a wiki page for each project enables anybody to add comments.[...] I think this is a great idea. Because of Duncan's concerns about imposing too much burden on authors, and because there are many mature projects which

Re: [Haskell-cafe] What about adding a wiki for each haskell project?

2009-12-12 Thread wren ng thornton
Marc Weber marco-owe...@gmx.de wrote: Hackage is missing one feature: It is very static. I mean if you have a patch or a question or a comment you have to lookup the darcs repository, write the patch then contact the author and wait.. If the author replies everything is fine. If he doesn't you

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why?

2009-12-10 Thread wren ng thornton
John D. Earle wrote: This is a matter that I genuinely at the present time do not grasp and I am hoping that some of you who are more familiar with the Haskell language may be able to help enlighten me. I feel the question to be an important one. What material benefit does Haskell derive from

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Type system speculation

2009-12-09 Thread wren ng thornton
Andrew Coppin wrote: What we're really trying to do here is attach additional information to a value - information which exists only in the type checker's head, but has no effect on runtime behaviour (other than determining whether we *get* to runtime). As far as I can tell, Haskell does not

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Natural Language Processing

2009-12-09 Thread wren ng thornton
John D. Earle wrote: Is Parsec capable of parsing a mildly context sensitive language? In particular does it parse a combinatory categorial grammar? Does Haskell have such tools in its shed? What sort of facilities does Haskell have for natural language processing? If you come back at the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there standard idioms for lazy, pure error handling?

2009-12-07 Thread wren ng thornton
Nicolas Pouillard wrote: Excerpts from Henning Thielemann's message of Mon Dec 07 20:36:27 +0100 2009: @Apfelmus: For practical purposes I think Train should have swapped type parameters in order to make Functor act on the type of the list elements. data Train b a = Wagon a (Train b a)

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Low Level Audio - Writing bytes to the sound card?

2009-12-05 Thread wren ng thornton
Andrew Coppin wrote: Unfortunately, I've yet to find a single Haskell package that binds to C which will actually compile on Windows. :-( Take a look at logfloat[1], it builds cleanly on Windows XP using GHC 6.10.1 without needing Cygwin nor Mingw/Msys (however GHCi has some DLL errors[2]).

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there standard idioms for lazy, pure error handling?

2009-12-04 Thread wren ng thornton
wren ng thornton wrote: One of the nice things about not having a Nil is that it lets you easily be polymorphic over things ending in () ---a normal list---, (Maybe a) ---a fallible list---, (Either a b) ---your progress type---, etc. Whereas the version that has both Nil and End forces us

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there standard idioms for lazy, pure error handling?

2009-12-04 Thread wren ng thornton
Jason McCarty wrote: wren ng thornton wrote: concat1 :: T a b - (b - T a b) - T a b This could just as easily be concat :: T a b - (b - T a c) - T a c right? It's a little weird to call this concatenation, but I bet it could come in handy. Er right, that's what I meant. (Again

Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC magic optimization ?

2009-12-04 Thread wren ng thornton
Luke Palmer wrote: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Mark Lentczner ma...@glyphic.com wrote: On Dec 4, 2009, at 2:43 AM, Luke Palmer wrote: So GHC leaves it to the user to specify sharing. If you want an expression shared, let bind it and reuse. Does GHC treat where and let the same in this

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there standard idioms for lazy, pure error handling?

2009-12-03 Thread wren ng thornton
Duncan Coutts wrote: I've got an open mind on the suggestion to amalgamate the two ways the list could end. I'm not especially in favour of generalising for the sake of generalising, especially if it looses the connection to the notion of annotating your ordinary data structure with extra

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Optimization with Strings ?

2009-12-03 Thread wren ng thornton
David Menendez wrote: Alec Berryman wrote: I don't know of a library to intern strings, but it's not too hard to implement. I couldn't find the code I wrote to do this, but I looked around a bit and this is about what I remember doing:

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there standard idioms for lazy, pure error handling?

2009-12-02 Thread wren ng thornton
Nicolas Pouillard wrote: Excerpts from Heinrich Apfelmus's message of Tue Dec 01 11:29:24 +0100 2009: I propose to (trivially) generalize this type to list with an end data ListEnd a b = Cons a (ListEnd a b) | End b because it may have other uses than just lazy error

Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell in online contests

2009-11-28 Thread wren ng thornton
vishnu wrote: I always thought lazyness was automatic and seq made strictness possible. Laziness is the default, but that doesn't mean it's everywhere. For example, every time you do pattern matching you enforce strictness: foo (x:xs) = 5 == foo _|_ == _|_ However, there's also

Re: [Haskell-cafe] haskell in online contests

2009-11-28 Thread wren ng thornton
vishnu wrote: wow ok, I'm not even able to see why they're different in the desugared version They're different because case is strict binding (see caveat below) whereas let is lazy binding. If we say, let foo = big ugly computation in bar Then if foo isn't used in bar, it'll never be

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Status of TypeDirectedNameResolution proposal?

2009-11-19 Thread wren ng thornton
Twan van Laarhoven wrote: My point is that desugaring x.f to (f x) and treating some instances of (f x) as (ModuleToGuess.f x) are two separate things. In the current proposal these two are combined, but I see no reason to do so. To be a bit more concrete, I would propose: * General Type

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Status of TypeDirectedNameResolution proposal?

2009-11-17 Thread wren ng thornton
Neil Brown wrote: Having skimmed the page, it seems like the re-use of . is one of the major difficulties of the proposal. Would it be possible to use -? It has been used for accessing members in C and C++, so it is not too unusual a choice. It's also the one that Perl went with. It is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] help with musical data structures

2009-11-16 Thread wren ng thornton
Stephen Tetley wrote: Hello Mike A pitch class set represents Z12 numbers so I'd define a Z12 number type then store it in a list (if you have need a multiset - duplicates) or Data.Set (if you need uniqueness). If you want an efficient implementation for *sets* of Z12 numbers I'd recommend

Re: [Haskell-cafe] What does the `forall` mean ?

2009-11-15 Thread wren ng thornton
Mark Lentczner wrote: I also think I understand that the implicit 'forall' inherent in Haskell falls at different places in various constructs, which also had me confused. For example, while the above two function type declarations are equivalent, these two data declarations aren't:

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Could someone teach me why we use Data.Monoid?

2009-11-13 Thread wren ng thornton
Magicloud Magiclouds wrote: Hum... simple like that. So you meant the Monoid just abstracts/represents the ability to build a stack, right? The key idea behind monoids is that they define sequence. To get a handle on what that means, it helps to think first about the free monoid. If we have

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Could someone teach me why we use Data.Monoid?

2009-11-13 Thread wren ng thornton
Stephen Tetley wrote: Hi Edward Many thanks. I've mostly used groupoid for 'string concatenation' on types that I don't consider to have useful empty (e.g PostScript paths, bars of music...), as string concatenation is associative it would have been better if I'd used semigroup in the first

Re: [Haskell-cafe] (state) monad and CPS

2009-11-11 Thread wren ng thornton
Nicolas Pouillard wrote: Excerpts from jean-christophe mincke's message of Tue Nov 10 21:18:34 +0100 2009: do acc - get put (acc+1) ... Since this pattern occurs often 'modify' is a combination of get and put: do modify (+1) ... Though the caveat about laziness applies here as

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