Re: [IAEP] [ASLO] Testing of Activities

[Tony Anderson]

I posted issues for each indicating the results of the tests.

Tony

On 04/19/2017 08:50 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

Do you have the details re the broken activities?

regards.

-walter

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Tony Anderson > wrote:


I spent the last two plus days testing the 137 activities with
repositories in github/sugarlabs.

Of these, 103 work on Ubuntu 16.04 sucrose. This leaves 34 which
do not work.

The biggest problem is version control. Most of these activities
were placed in github during GCI early in 2016. The two main
contributers apparently were unaware of the activity version
number in activity.info . As a result, even
after upgrading to GTK3 (sugar3), the version number was unchanged
from the original taken from ASLO. This caused a lot of lost time
as a test on the version in ASLO failed only to find that the
version in github worked.

In many cases the activity version shown to users of ASLO is not
the most recent version (and, indeed, is a non-working version
although there is a working version available). The most recent
version as the result of some quirk in procedure or software is
available by the 'view older versions' link. At the top of that
screen is the warning: Be careful with old versions.

Try to imagine the reaction of a Sugar user who downloads an
activity from ASLO which fails to start. I can't think of anything
more likely to turn off a learner.

It was possible to get several working by obtaining a missing
component or in case of the MaMaMedia activities, to remove
reference to abiword (losing the integral lessons). In other cases
the GCI contributors failed to complete the upgrade to GTK3 which
has the property that it is all or nothing. So in several cases,
the activity fails because of an indirect or overlooked reference
to gobject. One concern is activities based on a screen-size of
1200x900. One game activity is unplayable because essential
controls are off the screen (1024x768).

As a community we need to come up with standards and procedures
for creating and maintaining activities in github.

Presumably, this is managed by an Activity Team. While there
are many registered members and owners, many of them are not
active at the moment. The website description of the Activity Team
is obsolete (dates from 2014

Currently someone who wants to contribute an activity registers
with the developer hub on ASLO. This request is answered by email
similar to the procedure for joining an mail list. How is that to
be handled now.

It appears that most of the changes made by GCI contributors were
done by direct git commits. However, more generally, work on an
activity would be done on a clone to later be merged through the
PR process. As now, actual release of an activity to ASLO is done
by someone other than the developer. So one could imagine a
process where a responsible member of the Activity Team would
generate a bundle with setup.py and install the bundle as the most
recent version on ASLO with an updated version number.

Currently, ASLO displays information about the activity that is
not available in the bundle itself such as the developer, summary,
description, 'works with', release notes, home page, and
repository link. Perhaps the standard should be to include this
information in the bundles activity.info  so
the ASLO page could be generated by examination of the bundle. The
'works with' needs to be expanded to show which platforms are
supported. In addition, it should show specific restrictions. A
classic is the level activity which requires an XO with an
accelerometer. Any other Sugar user should pass. Others require
special hardware such as a midi connection, a makeymakey or gogo
board, or Butia components.

Localization also needs some attention. The setup.py enables a
developer to generate a master Pot file while building a bundle
for release to ASLO. That is probably the limit of the developer's
responsibility. However, existing activities over time have
developed localization for many languages. Changes to the messages
will need new translations. Perhaps the developer can use diff to
find differences in the Pot and to eliminate un-needed changes and
test that new messages are passed through. This could enable
prompt release of a new version without waiting for the
localization team to provide translations for dozens of languages.

Tony
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--
Walter 

Re: [IAEP] [ASLO] Testing of Activities

[Walter Bender]

Do you have the details re the broken activities?

regards.

-walter

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> I spent the last two plus days testing the 137 activities with
> repositories in github/sugarlabs.
>
> Of these, 103 work on Ubuntu 16.04 sucrose. This leaves 34 which do not
> work.
>
> The biggest problem is version control. Most of these activities were
> placed in github during GCI early in 2016. The two main contributers
> apparently were unaware of the activity version number in activity.info.
> As a result, even after upgrading to GTK3 (sugar3), the version number was
> unchanged from the original taken from ASLO. This caused a lot of lost time
> as a test on the version in ASLO failed only to find that the version in
> github worked.
>
> In many cases the activity version shown to users of ASLO is not the most
> recent version (and, indeed, is a non-working version although there is a
> working version available). The most recent version as the result of some
> quirk in procedure or software is available by the 'view older versions'
> link. At the top of that screen is the warning: Be careful with old
> versions.
>
> Try to imagine the reaction of a Sugar user who downloads an activity from
> ASLO which fails to start. I can't think of anything more likely to turn
> off a learner.
>
> It was possible to get several working by obtaining a missing component or
> in case of the MaMaMedia activities, to remove reference to abiword (losing
> the integral lessons). In other cases the GCI contributors failed to
> complete the upgrade to GTK3 which has the property that it is all or
> nothing. So in several cases, the activity fails because of an indirect or
> overlooked reference to gobject. One concern is activities based on a
> screen-size of 1200x900. One game activity is unplayable because essential
> controls are off the screen (1024x768).
>
> As a community we need to come up with standards and procedures for
> creating and maintaining activities in github.
>
> Presumably, this is managed by an Activity Team. While there are many
> registered members and owners, many of them are not active at the moment.
> The website description of the Activity Team is obsolete (dates from 2014
>
> Currently someone who wants to contribute an activity registers with the
> developer hub on ASLO. This request is answered by email similar to the
> procedure for joining an mail list. How is that to be handled now.
>
> It appears that most of the changes made by GCI contributors were done by
> direct git commits. However, more generally, work on an activity would be
> done on a clone to later be merged through the PR process. As now, actual
> release of an activity to ASLO is done by someone other than the developer.
> So one could imagine a process where a responsible member of the Activity
> Team would generate a bundle with setup.py and install the bundle as the
> most recent version on ASLO with an updated version number.
>
> Currently, ASLO displays information about the activity that is not
> available in the bundle itself such as the developer, summary, description,
> 'works with', release notes, home page, and repository link. Perhaps the
> standard should be to include this information in the bundles
> activity.info so the ASLO page could be generated by examination of the
> bundle. The 'works with' needs to be expanded to show which platforms are
> supported. In addition, it should show specific restrictions. A classic is
> the level activity which requires an XO with an accelerometer. Any other
> Sugar user should pass. Others require special hardware such as a midi
> connection, a makeymakey or gogo board, or Butia components.
>
> Localization also needs some attention. The setup.py enables a developer
> to generate a master Pot file while building a bundle for release to ASLO.
> That is probably the limit of the developer's responsibility. However,
> existing activities over time have developed localization for many
> languages. Changes to the messages will need new translations. Perhaps the
> developer can use diff to find differences in the Pot and to eliminate
> un-needed changes and test that new messages are passed through. This could
> enable prompt release of a new version without waiting for the localization
> team to provide translations for dozens of languages.
>
> Tony
> ___
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> a...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/aslo
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Sebastian!

On 17 July 2016 at 03:14, Sebastian Silva  wrote:

> El 15/07/16 a las 07:37, Dave Crossland escribió:
>
> Alright! Back to this whole Sugar Network thing that I feel like I don't
> totally understand :) I have some immediate practical questions I hope you
> can answer :)
>
> Where is the source code?  
> https://notabug.org/school-network is gone.
>
> If an instance of School Network is to become ASLO, does it provide the
> same APIs Sam has mentioned?
>
> I also have some organizational questions :)
>
> Why is the source code not in a Sugar Labs repo? Why is School Network not
> a Sugar Labs project? Who owns the school-network.org domain?
>
> Who owns the project? Will they be willing to shift the upstream to the
> Sugar Labs github org, and make School Network an official Sugar Labs
> project, and transfer ownership of the school-network.org domain to
> Conservancy?
>
> Who has been involved in its initiation and development?
>
> Who are the current users of School Network?
>
> *sugar-network* is a previous version of the same codebase that was
> extensively tested and came to production in Peru reaching over 38k unique
> users online since 2015.
>
> We will be looking for a successor, perhaps compromising on features.
>

I'm still confused :) Do you mean that it is obsolete code, no longer
maintained, and not worth maintaining or keeping available online?

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Sebastian Silva]

El 15/07/16 a las 07:37, Dave Crossland escribió:
> Alright! Back to this whole Sugar Network thing that I feel like I
> don't totally understand :) I have some immediate practical questions
> I hope you can answer :)
>
> Where is the source code? https://notabug.org/school-network is gone.

>
> If an instance of School Network is to become ASLO, does it provide
> the same APIs Sam has mentioned?


>
> I also have some organizational questions :) 
>
> Why is the source code not in a Sugar Labs repo? Why is School Network
> not a Sugar Labs project? Who owns the school-network.org
>  domain?

>
> Who owns the project? Will they be willing to shift the upstream to
> the Sugar Labs github org, and make School Network an official Sugar
> Labs project, and transfer ownership of the school-network.org
>  domain to Conservancy? 
>
> Who has been involved in its initiation and development? 
>
> Who are the current users of School Network?

/sugar-network/ is a previous version of the same codebase that was
extensively tested and came to production in Peru reaching over 38k
unique users online since 2015.

We will be looking for a successor, perhaps compromising on features.

Thanks Aleksey for your support for all this time,

Sincerely

Sebastian

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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

On 15 July 2016 at 08:43, Tony Anderson  wrote:

> A lot of questions. I believe Sebastian Silva would be your best source.
>

Sure! My email is in reply to his, and I expect he will answer these
questions on this list when he has time? :)
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 15 July 2016 at 04:29, Tony Anderson  wrote:

> This proposal needs some details.
>

I agree


> ASLO supported many functions including the developer hub, authentication,
> and so on. A simple static site that is functionally equivalent is
> ambiguous.
>

Yes. Since the python Sugar Desktop is going away, and ASLO has broken, I
am proposing a minimum viable product replacement that offers users the key
functionality.


> Aleksey's proposal has been implemented and is on-line (sugar network). Is
> this what you are proposing to implement?
>

It is not what I am proposing, no.

It could be a good web app to host on the ASLO domain or it could not
be. I can't find the source code so I can't tell.

What I can tell from looking at
http://school-network.org/hub/?view=Catalog=activity=newest
is that all the functionality it provides can be provided be a single
static HTML page, but it


> Are you volunteering to undertake this task?
>

Yes


> When would you expect to be able to get ASLO back online for our users?
>

I have about 8 hours free time tomorrow, I was going to work on my GSOC but
since this seems pretty urgent, I could work on this.

However, I think probably the first thing is to get ASLO's php5 codebase
back up and running like it was, before developing a secure and stable
replacement before it dies again.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

A lot of questions. I believe Sebastian Silva would be your best source.

Tony

On 07/15/2016 02:37 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


Hi!

On 15 July 2016 at 00:14, Sebastian Silva > wrote:


> I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is
> functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.

Aleksey had proposed this:
http://school-network.org/hub/?view=Catalog=activity=featured


Alright! Back to this whole Sugar Network thing that I feel like I 
don't totally understand :) I have some immediate practical questions 
I hope you can answer :)


Where is the source code? https://notabug.org/school-network is gone.

If an instance of School Network is to become ASLO, does it provide 
the same APIs Sam has mentioned?


I also have some organizational questions :)

Why is the source code not in a Sugar Labs repo? Why is School Network 
not a Sugar Labs project? Who owns the school-network.org 
 domain?


Who owns the project? Will they be willing to shift the upstream to 
the Sugar Labs github org, and make School Network an official Sugar 
Labs project, and transfer ownership of the school-network.org 
 domain to Conservancy?


Who has been involved in its initiation and development?

Who are the current users of School Network?


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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

On 15 July 2016 at 00:14, Sebastian Silva  wrote:

> > I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is
> > functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.
>
> Aleksey had proposed this:
> http://school-network.org/hub/?view=Catalog=activity=featured


Alright! Back to this whole Sugar Network thing that I feel like I don't
totally understand :) I have some immediate practical questions I hope you
can answer :)

Where is the source code? https://notabug.org/school-network is gone.

If an instance of School Network is to become ASLO, does it provide the
same APIs Sam has mentioned?

I also have some organizational questions :)

Why is the source code not in a Sugar Labs repo? Why is School Network not
a Sugar Labs project? Who owns the school-network.org domain?

Who owns the project? Will they be willing to shift the upstream to the
Sugar Labs github org, and make School Network an official Sugar Labs
project, and transfer ownership of the school-network.org domain to
Conservancy?

Who has been involved in its initiation and development?

Who are the current users of School Network?
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Dave

This proposal needs some details.

ASLO supported many functions including the developer hub, 
authentication, and so on. A simple static site that is functionally 
equivalent is ambiguous.


Aleksey's proposal has been implemented and is on-line (sugar network). 
Is this what you are proposing to implement?


Are you volunteering to undertake this task? When would you expect to be 
able to get ASLO back online for our users?


Tony

On 07/15/2016 06:14 AM, Sebastian Silva wrote:

El 14/07/16 a las 11:43, Dave Crossland escribió:


We need a plan to move off this php5 codebase.

I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is
functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.


Aleksey had proposed this:
http://school-network.org/hub/?view=Catalog=activity=featured



.



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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Sebastian Silva]

El 14/07/16 a las 11:43, Dave Crossland escribió:

> We need a plan to move off this php5 codebase.
>
> I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is
> functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.
>
Aleksey had proposed this:
http://school-network.org/hub/?view=Catalog=activity=featured



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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I don't know where this (as well as many of Sugar's APIs) are documented.

It would be best to look at the original PHP code as well as the clients'
intent:

   -
   
http://git.sugarlabs.org/slo-activities/mainline/blobs/master/site/app/webroot/services/update-aslo.php
   -
   
http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/sugarlabs_activities/kspost.60.nochroot.aslo.sh
   -
   
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/src/jarabe/model/update/aslo.py

There are ways to build XO builds and update Sugar activities without ASLO
(although no automated one for apps installed to a user's home directory).
A bigger decision might be to eliminate getting Activities through this API.


On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

>
> On 14 July 2016 at 13:13, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
>
>> The build utilities for XO laptops hook into ASLO to download
>> applications.
>>
> Cool!
>
>> Some sort of backward compatible API should be made for that.
>>
> Sure. Where is the API documented?
>
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 July 2016 at 13:13, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:

> The build utilities for XO laptops hook into ASLO to download applications.
>
Cool!

> Some sort of backward compatible API should be made for that.
>
Sure. Where is the API documented?
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 July 2016 at 14:22, Tony Anderson  wrote:

> The obvious question is why? What functionality do we add for our users by
> rewriting everything in Python 3?
>

The functionality of being able to run the software, because the underlying
Python 2 packages are going away.
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

The obvious question is why? What functionality do we add for our users 
by rewriting everything in Python 3?


Tony

On 07/14/2016 06:43 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On Jul 14, 2016 12:26 PM, "Tony Anderson" > wrote:

>
> The problem is ASLO, our primary interface and support for our user 
community.

>
> If we are going the github route, we need to set up a means for 
updated versions of Activities to be made into bundles and installed 
on the ASLO repository.


It seems to me that the ALSO repository is dangerous unmaintained code 
and has been on its last legs for a while and those legs just broke. 
We can put them in a cast, but they are not going to heal.


We need a plan to move off this php5 codebase.

I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is 
functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.


> Presumably documentation (but no code) would be required to document 
a procedure to submit or update activities.


Right.

> In the case of ASLO, the code base is PhP. At one time, it was 
proposed to implement in Python using Django - following the lead of 
Mozilla. This apparently didn't happen. Jekyll is clearly a much 
better framework, it's website promises that installing Jekyll is 
sufficient to create a website. :)


Is mozilla addons still a libre codebase?

> The 'crumbling to dust' applies to the code not Python. Any software 
needs support. Most of the original developers of the Sugar activities 
have moved on to greener pastures. We have activities that failed 
because they incorporated object code which was not recompiled for 
ARM. We have activities that failed because they were build with 
hulahop. We have activities that failed because they imported Abiword. 
I have not seen a single example of a Sugar activity that had to be 
updated because of Python 2.7.


Right :)

Python 2.7 packages themselves will be dropped and all python 2 code 
needs porting to 3 well in advance of that.


Eventually all i386 packages will be dropped too.

We need to plan for these eventualities :)



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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Samuel Greenfeld]

ASLO isn't just a site for manual downloads.

The build utilities for XO laptops hook into ASLO to download applications.

Some sort of backward compatible API should be made for that.
On Jul 14, 2016 12:43 PM, "Dave Crossland"  wrote:

>
> On Jul 14, 2016 12:26 PM, "Tony Anderson"  wrote:
> >
> > The problem is ASLO, our primary interface and support for our user
> community.
> >
> > If we are going the github route, we need to set up a means for updated
> versions of Activities to be made into bundles and installed on the ASLO
> repository.
>
> It seems to me that the ALSO repository is dangerous unmaintained code and
> has been on its last legs for a while and those legs just broke. We can put
> them in a cast, but they are not going to heal.
>
> We need a plan to move off this php5 codebase.
>
> I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is
> functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.
>
> > Presumably documentation (but no code) would be required to document a
> procedure to submit or update activities.
>
> Right.
>
> > In the case of ASLO, the code base is PhP. At one time, it was proposed
> to implement in Python using Django - following the lead of Mozilla. This
> apparently didn't happen. Jekyll is clearly a much better framework, it's
> website promises that installing Jekyll is sufficient to create a website.
> :)
>
> Is mozilla addons still a libre codebase?
>
> > The 'crumbling to dust' applies to the code not Python. Any software
> needs support. Most of the original developers of the Sugar activities have
> moved on to greener pastures. We have activities that failed because they
> incorporated object code which was not recompiled for ARM. We have
> activities that failed because they were build with hulahop. We have
> activities that failed because they imported Abiword. I have not seen a
> single example of a Sugar activity that had to be updated because of Python
> 2.7.
>
> Right :)
>
> Python 2.7 packages themselves will be dropped and all python 2 code needs
> porting to 3 well in advance of that.
>
> Eventually all i386 packages will be dropped too.
>
> We need to plan for these eventualities :)
>
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>
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

On Jul 14, 2016 12:26 PM, "Tony Anderson"  wrote:
>
> The problem is ASLO, our primary interface and support for our user
community.
>
> If we are going the github route, we need to set up a means for updated
versions of Activities to be made into bundles and installed on the ASLO
repository.

It seems to me that the ALSO repository is dangerous unmaintained code and
has been on its last legs for a while and those legs just broke. We can put
them in a cast, but they are not going to heal.

We need a plan to move off this php5 codebase.

I am proposing a simple static site that hosts xo bundles, that is
functionally equivalent to the php5 codebase.

> Presumably documentation (but no code) would be required to document a
procedure to submit or update activities.

Right.

> In the case of ASLO, the code base is PhP. At one time, it was proposed
to implement in Python using Django - following the lead of Mozilla. This
apparently didn't happen. Jekyll is clearly a much better framework, it's
website promises that installing Jekyll is sufficient to create a website.
:)

Is mozilla addons still a libre codebase?

> The 'crumbling to dust' applies to the code not Python. Any software
needs support. Most of the original developers of the Sugar activities have
moved on to greener pastures. We have activities that failed because they
incorporated object code which was not recompiled for ARM. We have
activities that failed because they were build with hulahop. We have
activities that failed because they imported Abiword. I have not seen a
single example of a Sugar activity that had to be updated because of Python
2.7.

Right :)

Python 2.7 packages themselves will be dropped and all python 2 code needs
porting to 3 well in advance of that.

Eventually all i386 packages will be dropped too.

We need to plan for these eventualities :)
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

The problem is ASLO, our primary interface and support for our user 
community.


If we are going the github route, we need to set up a means for updated 
versions of Activities to be made into bundles and installed on the ASLO 
repository. Presumably documentation (but no code) would be required to 
document a procedure to submit or update activities.


In the case of ASLO, the code base is PhP. At one time, it was proposed 
to implement in Python using Django - following the lead of Mozilla. 
This apparently didn't happen. Jekyll is clearly a much better 
framework, it's website promises that installing Jekyll is sufficient to 
create a website. :)


The 'crumbling to dust' applies to the code not Python. Any software 
needs support. Most of the original developers of the Sugar activities 
have moved on to greener pastures. We have activities that failed 
because they incorporated object code which was not recompiled for ARM. 
We have activities that failed because they were build with hulahop. We 
have activities that failed because they imported Abiword. I have not 
seen a single example of a Sugar activity that had to be updated because 
of Python 2.7.


Tony


On 07/14/2016 02:47 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:



On Jul 14, 2016 8:15 AM, "Sam Parkinson" > wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Dave Crossland > wrote:

>>
>>
>> On 14 July 2016 at 07:13, Sam Parkinson > wrote:

>>>
>>> What do you mean?  ASLO is based on very old technology, which is 
going to get broken.

>>>
>>> 10/10 would love to improve ASLO.  I actually did an "ASLO2" 
effort a while ago, although that failed for reasons that are 
documented on my blog.  I would be up for using a AppStream and 
PackageKit based stack to reinvent the activity store experience though.

>>
>>
>> I think if ASLO can't be resuscitated, something VERY simple - a 
set of XO files and a Jekyll-like simple HTML site that links to them 
- would best replace it.

>
>
> Nice idea.  That is very simple!  But remember that you also needs 
search,


As a single page the browser search provides that. Site wide Google 
Search  provides that.


> i18n,

Its static content. i18n can be done inline.

> provide an api for Sugar to get list of bundles to update.

What is the current api URL schema and do we have examples of sample 
data or do we need to bring aslo back up?


Jekyll can provide structured data in html, XML, json, etc.

> The current ASLO also has other features, like a developer interface 
(how do devs submit updates to the static site)


Github pull request.

> and only showing the user activities that are compatible with the 
version of Sugar they are running.


They click the version and a <10 line JavaScript script hides the 
irrelevant information.


>>> Re Sugar using python2; a port to python3 was previously 
investigated as part of last years GSoC. We can port it baring our 
telepathy-python dependency.  (FYI there has not been a commit for 
telepathy salut or gabble in the past 2 years.  Dead upstream?


Salut could just be stable. The spec is at least a decade old. 
Telepathy and Gabble might be lost causes.


> Still, there are so many bugs that affect sugar.  10/10 would love 
to port collab to using something like Matrix.Org - the spec is *way* 
is more easy to understand than telepathy.


Yes matrix is very nice. However I don't know if it supports 
collaboration otself, I think we need a crdt library or something 
similar on top? Or was that the case with telepathy anyway?


> Telepathy seems much more complex than Sugar needs - we don't need 
abstract multi-backend support.


What are examples of Activities that deeply integrated collaboration? 
Write?


>> I think we should not upgrade to python3 but javascript.
>
>
> Py2 -> Py3 is a small change.  Py2 -> JS is massive.

The return on investment is the same, though.

> And moving to JS means you have to replace telepathy, for Py3, we 
can easily port the python-telepathy library ourselves (it is very 
small library)


Lionel already has real time collaboration working on Sugarizer, this 
is no biggie.


> What do you mean by javascript?  It is javascript and HTML?  Or 
javascript on top of GJS, using the same amazing Gtk+ technology stack?


I am proposing sunsetting the python codebase because it is crumbling 
to dust before our eyes. The Sugar Python codebase could go back to 
being maintained by OLPC Inc and Sugar Labs become a web shop. It 
seems the new "OLPC Laptop" will be running vanilla Ubuntu.


> One idea that had been in my mind recently is moving parts of 
sugar-toolkit-gtk3 to Vala or C.  In Vala/C, you can expose the 
objects via Gobject Introspection - meaning that they are accessible 
from Python{2,3}, Javascript, Vala, Perl, and probably more.  Don't 
know if it would be worth the barrier that it adds to 

Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

On Jul 14, 2016 8:15 AM, "Sam Parkinson"  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 14 July 2016 at 07:13, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you mean?  ASLO is based on very old technology, which is going
to get broken.
>>>
>>> 10/10 would love to improve ASLO.  I actually did an "ASLO2" effort a
while ago, although that failed for reasons that are documented on my
blog.  I would be up for using a AppStream and PackageKit based stack to
reinvent the activity store experience though.
>>
>>
>> I think if ASLO can't be resuscitated, something VERY simple - a set of
XO files and a Jekyll-like simple HTML site that links to them - would best
replace it.
>
>
> Nice idea.  That is very simple!  But remember that you also needs
search,

As a single page the browser search provides that. Site wide Google Search
provides that.

> i18n,

Its static content. i18n can be done inline.

> provide an api for Sugar to get list of bundles to update.

What is the current api URL schema and do we have examples of sample data
or do we need to bring aslo back up?

Jekyll can provide structured data in html, XML, json, etc.

> The current ASLO also has other features, like a developer interface (how
do devs submit updates to the static site)

Github pull request.

> and only showing the user activities that are compatible with the version
of Sugar they are running.

They click the version and a <10 line JavaScript script hides the
irrelevant information.

>>> Re Sugar using python2; a port to python3 was previously investigated
as part of last years GSoC.  We can port it baring our telepathy-python
dependency.  (FYI there has not been a commit for telepathy salut or gabble
in the past 2 years.  Dead upstream?

Salut could just be stable. The spec is at least a decade old. Telepathy
and Gabble might be lost causes.

> Still, there are so many bugs that affect sugar.  10/10 would love to
port collab to using something like Matrix.Org - the spec is *way* is more
easy to understand than telepathy.

Yes matrix is very nice. However I don't know if it supports collaboration
otself, I think we need a crdt library or something similar on top? Or was
that the case with telepathy anyway?

> Telepathy seems much more complex than Sugar needs - we don't need
abstract multi-backend support.

What are examples of Activities that deeply integrated collaboration? Write?

>> I think we should not upgrade to python3 but javascript.
>
>
> Py2 -> Py3 is a small change.  Py2 -> JS is massive.

The return on investment is the same, though.

> And moving to JS means you have to replace telepathy, for Py3, we can
easily port the python-telepathy library ourselves (it is very small
library)

Lionel already has real time collaboration working on Sugarizer, this is no
biggie.

> What do you mean by javascript?  It is javascript and HTML?  Or
javascript on top of GJS, using the same amazing Gtk+ technology stack?

I am proposing sunsetting the python codebase because it is crumbling to
dust before our eyes. The Sugar Python codebase could go back to being
maintained by OLPC Inc and Sugar Labs become a web shop. It seems the new
"OLPC Laptop" will be running vanilla Ubuntu.

> One idea that had been in my mind recently is moving parts of
sugar-toolkit-gtk3 to Vala or C.  In Vala/C, you can expose the objects via
Gobject Introspection - meaning that they are accessible from Python{2,3},
Javascript, Vala, Perl, and probably more.  Don't know if it would be worth
the barrier that it adds to development though.

If we want to provide software for all the world's children we must develop
software that runs on all platforms.
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Sam Parkinson]

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:


On 14 July 2016 at 07:13, Sam Parkinson  
wrote:
What do you mean?  ASLO is based on very old technology, which is 
going to get broken.


10/10 would love to improve ASLO.  I actually did an "ASLO2" effort 
a while ago, although that failed for reasons that are documented on 
my blog.  I would be up for using a AppStream and PackageKit based 
stack to reinvent the activity store experience though.


I think if ASLO can't be resuscitated, something VERY simple - a set 
of XO files and a Jekyll-like simple HTML site that links to them - 
would best replace it.


Nice idea.  That is very simple!  But remember that you also needs 
search, i18n, provide an api for Sugar to get list of bundles to 
update.  The current ASLO also has other features, like a developer 
interface (how do devs submit updates to the static site) and only 
showing the user activities that are compatible with the version of 
Sugar they are running.




Re Sugar using python2; a port to python3 was previously 
investigated as part of last years GSoC.  We can port it baring our 
telepathy-python dependency.  (FYI there has not been a commit for 
telepathy salut or gabble in the past 2 years.  Dead upstream?  
Still, there are so many bugs that affect sugar.  10/10 would love 
to port collab to using something like Matrix.Org - the spec is 
*way* is more easy to understand than telepathy.  Telepathy seems 
much more complex than Sugar needs - we don't need abstract 
multi-backend support.


I think we should not upgrade to python3 but javascript.


Py2 -> Py3 is a small change.  Py2 -> JS is massive.  And moving to JS 
means you have to replace telepathy, for Py3, we can easily port the 
python-telepathy library ourselves (it is very small library)


What do you mean by javascript?  It is javascript and HTML?  Or 
javascript on top of GJS, using the same amazing Gtk+ technology stack?


One idea that had been in my mind recently is moving parts of 
sugar-toolkit-gtk3 to Vala or C.  In Vala/C, you can expose the objects 
via Gobject Introspection - meaning that they are accessible from 
Python{2,3}, Javascript, Vala, Perl, and probably more.  Don't know if 
it would be worth the barrier that it adds to development though.


Thanks,
Sam
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 July 2016 at 07:13, Sam Parkinson  wrote:

> What do you mean?  ASLO is based on very old technology, which is going to
> get broken.
>
> 10/10 would love to improve ASLO.  I actually did an "ASLO2" effort a
> while ago, although that failed for reasons that are documented on my
> blog.  I would be up for using a AppStream and PackageKit based stack to
> reinvent the activity store experience though.
>

I think if ASLO can't be resuscitated, something VERY simple - a set of XO
files and a Jekyll-like simple HTML site that links to them - would best
replace it.


> Re Sugar using python2; a port to python3 was previously investigated as
> part of last years GSoC.  We can port it baring our telepathy-python
> dependency.  (FYI there has not been a commit for telepathy salut or gabble
> in the past 2 years.  Dead upstream?  Still, there are so many bugs that
> affect sugar.  10/10 would love to port collab to using something like
> Matrix.Org - the spec is *way* is more easy to understand than telepathy.
> Telepathy seems much more complex than Sugar needs - we don't need abstract
> multi-backend support.
>

I think we should not upgrade to python3 but javascript.
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Sam Parkinson]

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Tony Anderson  
wrote:

Apparently, it is another victim to 'deprecation'. Possibly the most
important feature of Sugar today is that it is based on Python 2.7 
which is

not being 'enhanced'.


What do you mean?  ASLO is based on very old technology, which is going 
to get broken.


10/10 would love to improve ASLO.  I actually did an "ASLO2" effort a 
while ago, although that failed for reasons that are documented on my 
blog.  I would be up for using a AppStream and PackageKit based stack 
to reinvent the activity store experience though.


Re Sugar using python2; a port to python3 was previously investigated 
as part of last years GSoC.  We can port it baring our telepathy-python 
dependency.  (FYI there has not been a commit for telepathy salut or 
gabble in the past 2 years.  Dead upstream?  Still, there are so many 
bugs that affect sugar.  10/10 would love to port collab to using 
something like Matrix.Org - the spec is *way* is more easy to 
understand than telepathy.  Telepathy seems much more complex than 
Sugar needs - we don't need abstract multi-backend support.


Thanks,
Sam
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO

[Tony Anderson]

ASLO, which is our most used service to our user-base, is back online, 
but is not operational.

Yesterday, it reported a long list of error messages.

Apparently, it is another victim to 'deprecation'. Possibly the most 
important feature of Sugar today is that it is based on Python 2.7 which is

not being 'enhanced'.

At the next Board Meeting, we need to consider ,  how to restore this 
service and to see that it is properly supported going forward.


Certainly the developer hub needs to be re-considered in light of the 
decision to move the activities to github.


Tony

On 07/11/2016 06:00 PM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: [Systems] Maintenance downtime today for OS upgrades
   (Sebastian Silva)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 09:26:43 -0500
From: Sebastian Silva 
To: Laura Vargas , Bernie Innocenti

Cc: "Lim, Aleksey" , systems
, Sugar Devel
, IAEP 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Systems] Maintenance downtime today for OS
upgrades
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

I restarted the wiki service for the pe.sugarlabs.org domain.

I run it in `screen` but I will make it a proper service or maybe apache
can launch it.


El 11/07/16 a las 09:17, Laura Vargas escribió:

Hi Bernie,

Thanks for the maintenance. This is tI report you our wiki is also down!

http://pe.sugarlabs.org/ir/

Thanks in advance.

2016-07-10 12:44 GMT-05:00 Bernie Innocenti >:

 On 10/07/16 12:57, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 > On 09/07/16 19:15, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 >
 >> Most notably, activities.sugarlabs.org
  is still down. It probably
 >> doesn't like PHP 7... The wiki is also very slow because I had to
 >> disable APC until I understand how to make Mediawiki use the
 new APCu.
 >
 > I'm still working to restore ASLO. It's an old codebase that was
 still
 > using PHP features that were deprecated in PHP 5.5 and removed
 in PHP 7...

 I finally got ASLO to display its front page, but activities are not
 being listed. I had to switch the DB backend to mysqli because the
 mysql
 extension has been removed in PHP7.

 Aleksey, since you're familiar with ASLO's codebase, would you be able
 to look into the outstanding issues?

 --
  _ // Bernie Innocenti
  \X/  http://codewiz.org
 ___
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--
Laura V.
I SomosAZUCAR.Org

Identi.ca/Skype acaire
IRC kaametza

Happy Learning!



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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Editor Application

[Gonzalo Odiard]

Alan,
Now you are a editor, a great task to do, should be update the screenshots
in the activities,
and add a link to a page in the wiki for every activity without a website.
Is not needed you do all the work, but may be is a good task to coordinate
with other volunteers.
What you think?
Regards,

Gonzalo



On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

   Hi Alan.

  Welcome you are now an ASLO editor.

 thank you very much!

 Regards!

 Alan

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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Editor Application

[Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn]

Yes.. I can...
There are only 39 activities without page...I can make it alone.. there are 
few...
I don't know how to make it in the page.. but searching.. maybe can find the 
way...
Regards!
Alan
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:51:52 -0300
From: gonz...@laptop.org
To: alan...@hotmail.com
CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; raf...@activitycentral.com
Subject: Re: [IAEP] ASLO Editor Application

Alan,
Now you are a editor, a great task to do, should be update the screenshots in 
the activities,
and add a link to a page in the wiki for every activity without a website.
Is not needed you do all the work, but may be is a good task to coordinate with 
other volunteers.

What you think?
Regards,

Gonzalo



On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:





 Hi Alan.
 Welcome you are now an ASLO editor.

thank you very much!

Regards!
Alan  

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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Editor Application

[Rafael Ortiz]

Hi Alan.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:


  Name: Alan Aguiar

 Mail: alan...@hotmail.com

 Activities: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/sugar/user/418

 GIT: http://git.sugarlabs.org/~alanjas

 SugarLabs activities:


 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AntaXnq4oy2_dFJjNE9TemZUUGtzLVNEQnF4UlIwQkE

 Test of compatibility with os883 (Sugar 0.94.1):


 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AntaXnq4oy2_dHpvZHhLeGRQYzc1cDlRZU9Mc1NldGc

 Random thoughts:

 Viewing the list of activities, I found 82 that are in SandBox. And 38 not
 public/no page..

 When an activity not is aprovved, we must give a feedback to the
 developer... Because, the developer
 not have idea for what his activity was rejected..

 And when activity is approved, would suggest ideas to improve it..

 Another thing that I don't like: trusted activities. That increases the
 time of a new version of an activity
 takes to be public, but it may go against users: a simple bug, error that
 the developer not see when try
 the activity, we can obtain it..

 Regards!

 Alan

 Welcome you are now an ASLO editor.



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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Editor Application

[Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn]

 Hi Alan.
 Welcome you are now an ASLO editor.

thank you very much!
Regards!
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Re: [IAEP] [ASLO] Result of test activities on Sugar 0.94.1

[Thomas C Gilliard]

Alan:

This is a very nice set of tests.

Since I last responded to your previous set of tests; I have continued 
to work on very recent activities versus  Soas-v5; Trisquel 5 Sugar 
(Toast) and SoaS-v6 using a live CD and XO-1 and XO-1.5 with the latest 
software. [1]


I tested activities using the contents of the  ASLOxo CD [2]  plus the 
current new activities announced on  the  
sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org  loaded in a 8GB USB-stick.

This is work is still in progress.

Older versions of SoaS v1-SoaS-v4 activity tests, that were done over a 
year ago, are located here [3]


I hope somehow that our work can get consolidated.
This information is very important for the community.

Cordially;

Tom Gilliard
satellit_ on #sugar IRC


[1] 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Activity_Matrix#Most_Recent-Activity_Test_Results

[2] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit#ASLOxo-6
[3]http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Activity_Matrix

On 01/14/2012 06:15 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn wrote:


Hi,

Some days ago I make a complete list of the activities of the 
SugarLabs page...


Now, I make a test of the activities that only have compatibility with 
old sugar (from 0.82 to 0.88)


There are 81 activities that runs to 0.90 or 0.92 that need to be 
testeds.


I think that this activities works good... Between 0.90 to 0.94 not 
are some changes in Sugar...


Only test public activities. The experimental are 82. And without 
page: 38.


Most of the activities run correct in 0.94.1 (Ensamble 883 - Firmware: 
Q2E48).


The major problem is that sugar changes, and the developers can't 
follow the train...
In some activities, when you use the mouse, and request it, the value 
x, y were integers.. now, are
float.. the same problem in another things of the screen.. that 
waiting a integer and have a float..


I have an activity: Conozco Alimentos that have that problem.. When 
I make it, not have this

problem.. In the I know America, I fix it...

Another problem with SugarLabs page: you need make another version 
to can select between

that Sugar works...

Well.. the 
list:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AntaXnq4oy2_dHpvZHhLeGRQYzc1cDlRZU9Mc1NldGc 
%20https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AntaXnq4oy2_dHpvZHhLeGRQYzc1cDlRZU9Mc1NldGc


The column enters means if you can enters to the activity: the red 
means that have error while load...

or directly: not load never..

The column notes have the comments for each activity. When I said: 
log with some inecessary information
I try to say that not are errors, but are some information that not 
are useful.


I await your comments...

Regards!

Alan



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Re: [IAEP] [ASLO] XOplanet

[Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero]

Hello all.

I really don't know, but we can ask in olpc-uruguay.

cheers!.
Rafael Ortiz



On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
 maybe dirakx knows more about who maintain xoplanet

 On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 11:35:45AM -0300, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 This community portal in Spanish looks very similar to ASLO in scope and
 design:

   http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/

 I wonder who maintains it, and if we could get in touch to see what
 opportunities exist to coordinate better.

 --
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  \X/  Sugar Labs       - http://sugarlabs.org/

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Re: [IAEP] [ASLO] XOplanet

[Aleksey Lim]

maybe dirakx knows more about who maintain xoplanet

On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 11:35:45AM -0300, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 This community portal in Spanish looks very similar to ASLO in scope and
 design:
 
   http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/ 
 
 I wonder who maintains it, and if we could get in touch to see what
 opportunities exist to coordinate better.
 
 -- 
// Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
  \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/
 
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Reviews

[Jim Simmons]

Aleksey,

I would agree that checking the user agent is not the best idea.  I'd
go for a more conventional spam-prevention technique, like making the
user do a simple arithmetic problem.  Just as long as its enough to
discourage spammers but not annoying to commenters.

James Simmons

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 05:37:49PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Jim Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote:
  My guess is that we get few reviews because you need to create an
  account on ASLO before you can do it.  A normal Activity user has no
  other use for such an account.  If you could post a review without
  logging in perhaps more people would do it.

 If the Browse user agent string is present, we could allow posting a
 review without logging in.  (Maybe even use the user's Sugar Nick if
 that is available to the server)

 I bet that would be enough to stop casual spam, but I don't know how
 much work it would take to implement on the ASLO side.

 do you mean sugar = aslo account integration
 or just checking useragent string for spam detecting?
 (if sugar will be so popular and spammers will use sugarized useragent
 string, we won't change useragent too fast :)

  I'd love to see more reviews of my own Activities, even really
  negative ones.  I've gotten some pretty good download numbers but
  without feedback the numbers don't seem real to me.

 Yeah, same here.

 Best,
 Wade
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Reviews

[Jim Simmons]

Wade,

My guess is that we get few reviews because you need to create an
account on ASLO before you can do it.  A normal Activity user has no
other use for such an account.  If you could post a review without
logging in perhaps more people would do it.

I'd love to see more reviews of my own Activities, even really
negative ones.  I've gotten some pretty good download numbers but
without feedback the numbers don't seem real to me.

James Simmons


 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:59:25 -0500
 From: Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com
 Subject: [IAEP] ASLO Reviews
 To: iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Message-ID:
        7087c32a0911291259o5a94933bk59769696b8bd...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 Hi all,

 The download counts on activities.sugarlabs.org are very high, but the
 review counts are low.  Typing Turtle [1] has nearly 50,000 downloads
 but only 2 reviews.

 Most reviews are from within the Sugar community; there aren't many
 from deployments.

 Is there something we could to do encourage users of
 activities.sugarlabs.org to write reviews?  Are there teachers on this
 list who would be up for having their students review Sugar
 activities?

 Thanks,
 Wade

 [1] http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4026
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Reviews

[Wade Brainerd]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Jim Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote:
 My guess is that we get few reviews because you need to create an
 account on ASLO before you can do it.  A normal Activity user has no
 other use for such an account.  If you could post a review without
 logging in perhaps more people would do it.

If the Browse user agent string is present, we could allow posting a
review without logging in.  (Maybe even use the user's Sugar Nick if
that is available to the server)

I bet that would be enough to stop casual spam, but I don't know how
much work it would take to implement on the ASLO side.

 I'd love to see more reviews of my own Activities, even really
 negative ones.  I've gotten some pretty good download numbers but
 without feedback the numbers don't seem real to me.

Yeah, same here.

Best,
Wade
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Reviews

[Aleksey Lim]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 05:37:49PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Jim Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote:
  My guess is that we get few reviews because you need to create an
  account on ASLO before you can do it.  A normal Activity user has no
  other use for such an account.  If you could post a review without
  logging in perhaps more people would do it.
 
 If the Browse user agent string is present, we could allow posting a
 review without logging in.  (Maybe even use the user's Sugar Nick if
 that is available to the server)
 
 I bet that would be enough to stop casual spam, but I don't know how
 much work it would take to implement on the ASLO side.

do you mean sugar = aslo account integration
or just checking useragent string for spam detecting?
(if sugar will be so popular and spammers will use sugarized useragent
string, we won't change useragent too fast :)

  I'd love to see more reviews of my own Activities, even really
  negative ones.  I've gotten some pretty good download numbers but
  without feedback the numbers don't seem real to me.
 
 Yeah, same here.
 
 Best,
 Wade
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Re: [IAEP] [ASLO] [NOMINATION] Skype-1

[Aleksey Lim]

I guess its another point for future policy[1] for ASLO editors,
should we allow non-FOSS software on ASLO.

[1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Library/Editors/Policy

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 10:14:56AM -0500, Sugar Labs Activities wrote:
 New activity was nominated to be public.
 
 Name: Skype 
 Version Number: 1 
 URL: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/sugar/addon/4247 
 Review Link: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/editors/review/29469 
 
 
 
 Sugar Labs Activities
 http://activities.sugarlabs.org
 
 ___
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Re: [IAEP] [ASLO] [NOMINATION] Skype-1

[Chris Ball]

Hi,

I guess its another point for future policy[1] for ASLO editors,
should we allow non-FOSS software on ASLO.

Even in the unlikely event that we decided to allow non-FOSS software
on ASLO, we are legally unable to distribute Skype because its
copyright license doesn't allow us to.  The activity should be taken
down immediately, for that reason.

(Sorry, Marcos.)

- Chris.
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO testing

[Aleksey Lim]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 01:42:50PM -0700, Josh Williams wrote:
 If you have a minute please test:
 
 http://activities-testing.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/
 
 Bugs fixed since last round of testing:
 
   1. # of Activities downloaded number added
   2. Fixed pagination for long search results
   3. Fixed user profile section
   4. cleaned up a few general typographical inconsistencies
 
 Thanks,
 
 Josh
 

overlapping and selcolor in dev menu on
http://activities-testing.sugarlabs.org/en-US/developers/addon/edit/4055/

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Re: [IAEP] ASLO testing

[Rubén Rodríguez Pérez]

 If you have a minute please test:
 
 http://activities-testing.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/

It's the first time I come into this page, and it looks very cool!

I have two complains though: the color scheme looks nice, but the
contrast level (mostly the light blue text) seems a little low to me:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CSS-TECHS/#style-color-contrast

But more important, some activity descriptions have no license info.
Showing that every activity is free software is an important issue and
should be enforced. This is a problem in the current ASLO site too.

Other than those two things, I like it a lot :)


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Re: [IAEP] ASLO updates

[Bernie Innocenti]

[cc += dfarning, alsroot, syst...@]

El Wed, 14-10-2009 a las 17:47 -0700, Josh Williams escribió:
 I've made some bug fixes to the new ASLO design, I've tested it lightly 
 and it seems to work in all major browsers (even ie6). If you have a few 
 moments, please test it out (download/upload activities, browse around) 
 and let me know if you see any display bugs or major usability issues.
 
 http://activities-devel.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/

All links to activity bundles appear to be broken :-(
For example:

 
http://activities-devel.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/file/26072/xpi/labyrinth-7.xo?src=addondetail

I'm not sure how to fix it, but I can imagine that it may be related
with moving the activity bundles from their old location
(/srv/www-sugarlabs/activities/files) to the upload directory
(/srv/upload/activities/) done by Dfarning in order to enable
Mirrorbrain.

Earlier today, alsroot asked me to fix some permission issues that would
prevent aslo from writing new activities in the new location. Now I'm
also noticing that there's still a copy of the activities in the old
location, and it is also bigger by 40MB!

/me is very confused :-/

Could anyone who was involved please write a short description of what
was changed exactly? I'm only trying to reconstruct the current
situation, not looking for a scapegoat.

Hmm... well, perhaps we can learn something from this accident:

The classic way to avoid the too many cooks syndrome would be to
appoint a single official maintainer and make all the change requests go
through him. However, I feel this solution would create lots of
critical roles and ultimately defeat our ongoing attempts to
decentralize system administration.

Instead, we shall establish simple procedures to improve sysadmin
coordination and communication. For example:

1) commit configuration changes in git along with a short description
   of what was done and why. We already have repositories for /etc and
   also and we could create more repos as needed;

2) write a short report for systems@ when we make substantial changes
   to a service;

3) write or update the wiki documentation for important sysadm
   procedures such as installing a new instance of a service

Use your common sense to decide what needs to be documented and how much
detail is needed. At all costs, we want to avoid putting too much
bureaucratic burden on volunteers because it's the most effective way to
make them look for something more exciting to do.

We could save time by coalescing steps (1) and (2): all we need to do is
enabling a post-commit hook in the repositories that would send patches
to systems-logs@ . We need to be extra careful not to expose passwords
in this way. Any volunteers to write and test this procedure?

-- 
   // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/

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Re: [IAEP] ASLO updates

[Aleksey Lim]

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 02:42:15AM -0400, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 [cc += dfarning, alsroot, syst...@]
 
 El Wed, 14-10-2009 a las 17:47 -0700, Josh Williams escribió:
  I've made some bug fixes to the new ASLO design, I've tested it lightly 
  and it seems to work in all major browsers (even ie6). If you have a few 
  moments, please test it out (download/upload activities, browse around) 
  and let me know if you see any display bugs or major usability issues.
  
  http://activities-devel.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/
 
 All links to activity bundles appear to be broken :-(
 For example:
 
  
 http://activities-devel.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/file/26072/xpi/labyrinth-7.xo?src=addondetail
 
 I'm not sure how to fix it, but I can imagine that it may be related
 with moving the activity bundles from their old location
 (/srv/www-sugarlabs/activities/files) to the upload directory
 (/srv/upload/activities/) done by Dfarning in order to enable
 Mirrorbrain.
 
 Earlier today, alsroot asked me to fix some permission issues that would
 prevent aslo from writing new activities in the new location.

Thats intended to be so, activities-devel is just mysql copy of
activities, I thought, it shouldn't affect activities-devel testing(but
you can create new activity/version and it should be downloaded).

 also noticing that there's still a copy of the activities in the old
 location, and it is also bigger by 40MB!

Thats because /srv/www-sugarlabs/activities/files contains some tmp
directory, it shouldn't affect .xo downloading.

 /me is very confused :-/
 
 Could anyone who was involved please write a short description of what
 was changed exactly? I'm only trying to reconstruct the current
 situation, not looking for a scapegoat.

We just tried to utilize AMO feature when it lets user download
public .xos from mirror sources and from files/ for other cases.
Recently all .xo were downloaded from files/(even after creating symlink
in /upload to files/).. and it was done from several attempts.

For now we have two independent sources for .xo downloads:
* /srv/www-sugarlabs/activities/files for not public activities
  and for 30min age public activities 
* mirrored /upload/activities for all public activities,
  after making new .xo public, ASLO uploads it to /upload/activities

 Hmm... well, perhaps we can learn something from this accident:
 
 The classic way to avoid the too many cooks syndrome would be to
 appoint a single official maintainer and make all the change requests go
 through him. However, I feel this solution would create lots of
 critical roles and ultimately defeat our ongoing attempts to
 decentralize system administration.
 
 Instead, we shall establish simple procedures to improve sysadmin
 coordination and communication. For example:
 
 1) commit configuration changes in git along with a short description
of what was done and why. We already have repositories for /etc and
also and we could create more repos as needed;

Yeah, for now, ASLO configs are stored only in
~activities/site/app/config

 2) write a short report for systems@ when we make substantial changes
to a service;
 
 3) write or update the wiki documentation for important sysadm
procedures such as installing a new instance of a service
 
 Use your common sense to decide what needs to be documented and how much
 detail is needed. At all costs, we want to avoid putting too much
 bureaucratic burden on volunteers because it's the most effective way to
 make them look for something more exciting to do.
 
 We could save time by coalescing steps (1) and (2): all we need to do is
 enabling a post-commit hook in the repositories that would send patches
 to systems-logs@ . We need to be extra careful not to expose passwords
 in this way. Any volunteers to write and test this procedure?

Well, we don't need such ASLO specific administration 24x7, most of time
it could be just regular file-permissions/apache/etc administration.

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Re: [IAEP] ASLO updates

[Bernie Innocenti]

El Thu, 15-10-2009 a las 07:34 +, Aleksey Lim escribió:
 We just tried to utilize AMO feature when it lets user download
 public .xos from mirror sources and from files/ for other cases.
 Recently all .xo were downloaded from files/(even after creating symlink
 in /upload to files/).. and it was done from several attempts.

Hmm... I'm not sure Mirrorbrain would still work if you symlink away
from the /srv/upload directory where it is active.

To check, use wget on one of the URLs: you should see a 302 redirect
before the download starts.

Btw, we should start to get psychologically ready to move aslo to
beamrider in the future or, better, cluster it on both machines.

 
  We could save time by coalescing steps (1) and (2): all we need to do is
  enabling a post-commit hook in the repositories that would send patches
  to systems-logs@ . We need to be extra careful not to expose passwords
  in this way. Any volunteers to write and test this procedure?
 
 Well, we don't need such ASLO specific administration 24x7, most of time
 it could be just regular file-permissions/apache/etc administration.

Ok. For now we'll limit it to /etc only.

-- 
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 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/

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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Suggestion

[Aleksey Lim]

Hi all,

Let me finalize this What tags we should use for GCompris/Fructose/etc
discussion :)

New AMO version and incoming ASLO v3 version have collections feature
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/collections

I think we can move tags GCompris and Fructose(Core, etc) to collections
moreover every user/deployer/editor could create theirs own collections.

Is it the way to go?

On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 09:50:31AM -0500, James Simmons wrote:
 The new style sheet for ASLO reminds me that something has bugged me 
 about the design of the site from the beginning.  The site does not do a 
 good job of showing just how much is available.  When you click on a 
 category you see entries for three or four Activities, seemingly picked 
 at random, and no indication that these Activities are not the only ones 
 available in the category.  Yes, there is a link to show everything in 
 the category.  It's not that you can't find anything if you really want 
 to.  It's that the site doesn't do a good job of selling what it has.
 
 What I would suggest is to put totals for each category in a prominent 
 place on the page.  When you first come into the site and no category is 
 selected you should see something like 500 Great Activities 
 Available!  Choose a category like Documents and the line would read 
 10 Activities In This Category.
 
 The other thing that has bugged me is the Recommended Activities.  We 
 need to put more thought into what gets recommended.  Currently one of 
 the Activities that is recommended is Read.  Now an XO owner or SoaS 
 user already has Read, so why recommend it?  Is there some reason I 
 should remove the Read I already have and install this one?
 
 Recommended Activities should promote Sugar.  They should meet the 
 following criteria:
 
 1).  Fairly robust.
 2).  Not included by default with anything.
 3).  Should do something interesting.  Think of the iPhone commercials 
 that show all the apps that are available.  Why not recommend something 
 like Food Force or Story Builder?
 
 I also question the category GCompris.  I understand these Activities 
 are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful 
 to a teacher or a student.
 
 A little salesmanship could go a long way in making this site better.
 
 James Simmons
 
 
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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Suggestion

[Gary C Martin]

On 11 Jun 2009, at 08:37, Aleksey Lim wrote:

 Hi all,

 Let me finalize this What tags we should use for GCompris/Fructose/ 
 etc
 discussion :)

 New AMO version and incoming ASLO v3 version have collections feature
 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/collections

 I think we can move tags GCompris and Fructose(Core, etc) to  
 collections
 moreover every user/deployer/editor could create theirs own  
 collections.

 Is it the way to go?

Yes this seems to be a solution. Allows the tags (categories) to be  
simple and learner friendly, while collections can be used for for the  
rest (collections are a secondary site UI, so don't clutter up the  
main site unless you visit their page).

Regards,
--Gary

 On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 09:50:31AM -0500, James Simmons wrote:
 The new style sheet for ASLO reminds me that something has bugged me
 about the design of the site from the beginning.  The site does not  
 do a
 good job of showing just how much is available.  When you click on a
 category you see entries for three or four Activities, seemingly  
 picked
 at random, and no indication that these Activities are not the only  
 ones
 available in the category.  Yes, there is a link to show everything  
 in
 the category.  It's not that you can't find anything if you really  
 want
 to.  It's that the site doesn't do a good job of selling what it has.

 What I would suggest is to put totals for each category in a  
 prominent
 place on the page.  When you first come into the site and no  
 category is
 selected you should see something like 500 Great Activities
 Available!  Choose a category like Documents and the line would read
 10 Activities In This Category.

 The other thing that has bugged me is the Recommended Activities.  We
 need to put more thought into what gets recommended.  Currently one  
 of
 the Activities that is recommended is Read.  Now an XO owner or SoaS
 user already has Read, so why recommend it?  Is there some reason I
 should remove the Read I already have and install this one?

 Recommended Activities should promote Sugar.  They should meet the
 following criteria:

 1).  Fairly robust.
 2).  Not included by default with anything.
 3).  Should do something interesting.  Think of the iPhone  
 commercials
 that show all the apps that are available.  Why not recommend  
 something
 like Food Force or Story Builder?

 I also question the category GCompris.  I understand these Activities
 are related to each other, but the relationship would not be  
 meaningful
 to a teacher or a student.

 A little salesmanship could go a long way in making this site better.

 James Simmons


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Re: [IAEP] ASLO Suggestion

[David Farning]

I think the Recommended activities are still those which were uploaded
early just to test the the recommendations worked.

IIRC, for a long time search was more broken than recommendations
Thus, search got the love.

That being said, modifying and updating recommendations are handled
through a web interface by editors.  If you have the time and interest
recommendations could use some love from you:)

david


On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:50 AM, James Simmonsjim.simm...@walgreens.com wrote:
 The new style sheet for ASLO reminds me that something has bugged me
 about the design of the site from the beginning.  The site does not do a
 good job of showing just how much is available.  When you click on a
 category you see entries for three or four Activities, seemingly picked
 at random, and no indication that these Activities are not the only ones
 available in the category.  Yes, there is a link to show everything in
 the category.  It's not that you can't find anything if you really want
 to.  It's that the site doesn't do a good job of selling what it has.

 What I would suggest is to put totals for each category in a prominent
 place on the page.  When you first come into the site and no category is
 selected you should see something like 500 Great Activities
 Available!  Choose a category like Documents and the line would read
 10 Activities In This Category.

 The other thing that has bugged me is the Recommended Activities.  We
 need to put more thought into what gets recommended.  Currently one of
 the Activities that is recommended is Read.  Now an XO owner or SoaS
 user already has Read, so why recommend it?  Is there some reason I
 should remove the Read I already have and install this one?

 Recommended Activities should promote Sugar.  They should meet the
 following criteria:

 1).  Fairly robust.
 2).  Not included by default with anything.
 3).  Should do something interesting.  Think of the iPhone commercials
 that show all the apps that are available.  Why not recommend something
 like Food Force or Story Builder?

 I also question the category GCompris.  I understand these Activities
 are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful
 to a teacher or a student.

 A little salesmanship could go a long way in making this site better.

 James Simmons


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Re: [IAEP] ASLO - rebranding

[David Farning]

Hey,

That is awesome!

david

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Josh Williamsj...@tucson-labs.com wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 I've been working on the css for ASLO, you can see where I'm at
 http://activities-devel.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/ . I've tried to make
 this fairly consistent with the design of sugarlabs.org.

 If any developers would be kind enough to upload some activities it
 would help with checking for inconsistencies it would be greatly
 appreciated.

 I'd like to push this to the live site in the near future, so please let
 me know what you think.

 Cheers,

 Josh


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Re: [IAEP] ASLO vs. Activities Portal

[Eben Eliason]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote:
 To me, Portal is the weak word in Sugar Activities Portal.  Portal doesn't
 give the warm, learning, discovery place like the word Library.

 So I would propose Sugar Activities Library.  A place to check out
 activities and discovery what is free to learn.

+1!
Maybe just Activity Library (non-plural, and dropping Sugar unless
discussing it outside the Sugar context)?

- Eben


--Fred

Sean and Marketing people,

 Could you please share your thought on naming
 activities.sugarlabs.org.  I wonder if it is better to use a common
 term such as 'Sugar Activities Portal' or create a new term such as
 ALSO.

 david
 +1
 Sugar Activities Portal

 Hits on three important messages we are trying to get out

 Sugar-The underlying system-Sugar is the core building blocks(Foundation)
 which activities can be built upon
 -Much like Sugars are core building blocks of the Human Body(Sugar at its
 most basic levels are essential and good)
 -Sugar is a set of building blocks for Education and your Mind.(Sugar as an
 Educational Platform is essential and good)

 Activities-Are the next set of building blocks that allow Teachers and
 Students to
 Learn How To Learn through active engagement.
 -Great activities that allow Teachers to enhance their lessons and allow for
 a creative hands on learning experiences
 for their students.

 Portal-Indicates a communal place to visit to access these Building Blocks.
 It will be important to have links that lead to information on how Teachers
 and
 Students can find and work with Developers.


 John Tierney


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Re: [IAEP] aslo mockup

[Martin Dengler]

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 07:22:42AM -0700, Josh Williams wrote:
 Hey everyone,

 I've created another mock up for aslo, that's more inline with the HIG,  
 uses our color palette, and excludes gradients and rounded corners.  
 Please let me know what you think.
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Addons_Portal/Design

I'm not so sure about the electric blue, green, and purple
combinations, but otherwise it looks nice.

Martin


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Re: [IAEP] aslo mockup

[Gary C Martin]

Hi Josh,

On 21 Mar 2009, at 14:22, Josh Williams wrote:

 Hey everyone,

 I've created another mock up for aslo, that's more inline with the  
 HIG, uses our color palette, and excludes gradients and rounded  
 corners. Please let me know what you think.

As per my quick irc comment about the dashed lines looking out of  
style; how about making the lines solid and with the logo choice  
outline colour, with all the box fills matching the logo fill colour?

--Gary

P.S. The green mock-up was a little acidic/bitter to my eye, blue  
purple was better, but I'm an oldie :-)

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Addons_Portal/Design
 aslo-mockup-blue- 
 purp-3-21.gif___
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Re: [IAEP] aslo categories

[Luke Faraone]

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 I don't know what the solution is, but I have issues with the above
 taxonomy.

 Is art music? Is music art? Where does synth lab fit it? Art, music,
 programming, science? Is a memorize a game when you are making math
 facts cards? Or is it geometry when you make a name that country game?
 Or is it English-language learning when you making pronunciation
 cards?Typing Tutor can be used for spelling, not just learning to
 type.


IMHO, music should be a subcat of music.

In any case, it doesn't matter if there is overlap, we can just have some
applications in both categories as we do now :)

-- 
Luke Faraone
http://luke.faraone.cc
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Re: [IAEP] aslo categories

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 19:07, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 It seems to me (I could be wrong) that the Mozilla add-ons can appear
 in multiple categories.

 Some systems build the categories dynamically from tags, of course the
 key with that is to limit the tag vocabulary.

 OSX widgets listed on the Apple site are usually in one category only,
 and in my opinion rarely in the category I'm expecting.

 By the way, I'm sorry to say the a.sl.o page has succeeded in annoying
 me, I was wondering why there was no content in the homepage on one of
 my computers (only in the categories). It turns out the page wants to
 force me to read it in French, I suppose because that's the browser
 language on the machine I happened to be on. I tried to change the URL
 substituting en for fr, but the page stubbornly told me to sauter dans
 le lac. I did eventually find the language choice bar, hiding at the
 bottom of the screen under a big white space (no idea there was even a
 footer, and it's a very big screen). And when I select English, the
 page comes alive with Recommendations!

There's still a lot of work to do on that site, we need people
entering tickets and php hackers fixing bugs and upstreaming changes.

Regards,

Tomeu

 Sean



 On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I don't know what the solution is, but I have issues with the above
 taxonomy.

 Is art music? Is music art? Where does synth lab fit it? Art, music,
 programming, science? Is a memorize a game when you are making math
 facts cards? Or is it geometry when you make a name that country game?
 Or is it English-language learning when you making pronunciation
 cards?Typing Tutor can be used for spelling, not just learning to
 type.

 IMHO, music should be a subcat of music.

 In any case, it doesn't matter if there is overlap, we can just have some
 applications in both categories as we do now :)

 --
 Luke Faraone
 http://luke.faraone.cc

 ___
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 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

 ___
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Re: [IAEP] aslo categories

[Carol Farlow Lerche]

The offered categories are not a taxonomy but rather a set of tags.
Presumably activities would be tagged with multiple of these if
appropriate.  Have you ever looked at the amo site to see how the Firefox
add-ons appear there?  You can see add-ons under multiple of the
descriptions they provide.  Yes, you can also search the site.



 Is art music? Is music art?

Educators and school curricula usually use the term art to refer to the
visual arts.  The tags are a finding tool, not a definitive designation of
every aspect that an activity may present.


 Where does synth lab fit it? Art, music,
 programming, science?

It seems like  you can attach four tags if you think these are all
appropriate.  Personally, I think programming is stretching the term to
meaninglessness.


 Is a memorize a game when you are making math
 facts cards? Or is it geometry when you make a name that country game?

Just because you can't perfectly describe every activity doesn't detract
from the usefulness of general tags that conform to educators' and parents'
notions of broad areas that a learning activity could contribute to.

Or is it English-language learning when you making pronunciation
 cards?Typing Tutor can be used for spelling, not just learning to
 type.

 Literacy covers all those areas.



 Perhaps we can search on descriptions? And if reviewers could add a
 word or two description of what they used the activity for, and Gary
 generates an interactive SOM for the search...

Nothing prevents someone from using local or google searching.



 -walter
 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org
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-- 
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it. -- Upton Sinclair
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Re: [IAEP] aslo categories

[Gary C Martin]

On 18 Mar 2009, at 17:47, Walter Bender wrote:

 On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Gary C Martin  
 g...@garycmartin.com wrote:
 [snip]
 So, summing up so far, this could give us something like:

 Art
 Communication
 Games
 Geography
 Literacy
 Maths
 Music
 Programming
 Science
 Utilities

 I don't know what the solution is, but I have issues with the above  
 taxonomy.

 Is art music? Is music art? Where does synth lab fit it? Art, music,
 programming, science? Is a memorize a game when you are making math
 facts cards? Or is it geometry when you make a name that country game?
 Or is it English-language learning when you making pronunciation
 cards?Typing Tutor can be used for spelling, not just learning to
 type.

It's funny I've ended up on this one, I'm really not a fan of  
ontologies, it's all shades of grey for me :-) But at least the  
current ASLO system does allow more than one category per Activity to  
get to that slightly fuzzy feeling.

 Perhaps we can search on descriptions? And if reviewers could add a
 word or two description of what they used the activity for, and Gary
 generates an interactive SOM for the search...

Oh my, you are thinking big on this one, here was me thinking we just  
needed some refinement on the current ASLO process to keep us  
rolling :-) I'd be happy to see the categories UI go and have  
something tag cloud like instead, but that's more work for someone...

FWIW: I did start making SOM's using my Activity test results as the  
input feature vectors for each Activity, then marking the Activity  
icons on the resulting map. It was kind'a fun but I decided I should  
spend more time testing and less time messing with my SOM code :-) I  
could only sensibly collect about 5 test feature vectors per activity,  
without going nuts, but I guess the process would be interesting if we  
could pool formal results, perhaps from an automated Activity test rig  
(now I have jhbuild running, perhaps I should look at sugarbot again).

Regards,
--Gary

 -walter
 -- 
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] aslo categories

[Walter Bender]

Peace... I wasn't trying to derail the use of categories; just trying
to go further if and when we can. The evidence of the web suggests
that search will trump categories in the end, but we can get quite far
with pretty much any taxonomy at this scale.

-walter

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche c...@msbit.com wrote:
 I'm someone who finds the original AMO site's categories for examining
 add-ons to be extremely useful.  I just don't understand the controversy
 here.  We're talking about just another finding tool.  If Walter doesn't
 find it helpful, he can just use search.  If other categories/tags would be
 helpful, add them (that was my original suggestion regarding the literacy
 activities).  I think this is yet another case of the perfect as the enemy
 of the good.



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-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
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