Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-03 Thread Joel C. Ewing
On 12/03/2015 12:16 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:43:38 -0600, Joel C. Ewing wrote: >> ... Because DOS/VS had native support for source and object >> libraries, those were kept online, but there was no decent native >> support to effectively submit production job JCL from libra

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-03 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <028001d12dea$d995b7c0$8cc12740$@mxg.com>, on 12/03/2015 at 10:51 AM, Barry Merrill said: >I can't recall if they were automatically send You had to order what you wanted. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-03 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:43:38 -0600, Joel C. Ewing wrote: > >... Because DOS/VS had native support for source and object >libraries, those were kept online, but there was no decent native >support to effectively submit production job JCL from libraries ... > Astonishing. You could RYO editor but no

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-03 Thread Barry Merrill
riginal Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel C. Ewing Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 10:44 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture l

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-03 Thread Joel C. Ewing
On 12/02/2015 11:09 PM, Ed Gould wrote: > On Dec 2, 2015, at 2:58 PM, Joel C. Ewing wrote: > >> I just weighed the one almost-full box of some old programs and data >> cards that I have retained for show-and-tell over the years, and it is a >> little over 8 lbs. Since the cards have holes punched,

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread Ed Gould
On Dec 2, 2015, at 2:58 PM, Joel C. Ewing wrote: I just weighed the one almost-full box of some old programs and data cards that I have retained for show-and-tell over the years, and it is a little over 8 lbs. Since the cards have holes punched, have some lighter cardboard spacers, and new c

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In , on 12/02/2015 at 05:33 PM, J O Skip Robinson said: >One urban legend (not necessarily fiction) is an explanation for the >curious layout in EBCDIC coding. UL? It's well documented. See, e.g., IBM System/360 Principles of Operation, A22-6821-7[1], Appendix F, USASCII-8 and EBCDIC Charts,

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread Ward, Mike S
Yea, you still have to feed the punch. :) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kirk Wolf Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 5:44 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Stra

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In , on 12/01/2015 at 10:51 PM, Mike Schwab said: >Or a small flash drive of 64M to 2G. Are they still making those? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congres

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread Joel C. Ewing
On > Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353 > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:59 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine > hardware architecture level?] > > Re: "ton" of JCL, at least one large shop of

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread Doug
MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 8:34 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?] > On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 10:02:01 -0600, Da

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread J O Skip Robinson
External):Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?] On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 10:02:01 -0600, Dana Mitchell wrote: >On Tue, 1 Dec 2015 23:03:59 +, J O Skip Robinson wrote: > >>(This whole season feels like Friday.)

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 10:02:01 -0600, Dana Mitchell wrote: >On Tue, 1 Dec 2015 23:03:59 +, J O Skip Robinson wrote: > >>(This whole season feels like Friday.) A doughnut, on the other hand, >>requires the hole for its very definition. The hole supplies no mass or >>nutritional value, but withou

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-02 Thread Dana Mitchell
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015 23:03:59 +, J O Skip Robinson wrote: >(This whole season feels like Friday.) A doughnut, on the other hand, requires >the hole for its very definition. The hole supplies no mass or nutritional >value, but without it the thing is not a doughnut. By contrast a punch card

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread Ed Gould
On Dec 1, 2015, at 10:54 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: Correction. 16 IBM 350 disk drives, each weighing a ton. Is that what Tennessee Ernie Ford was singing about? Yea but what about the power requirements and the architectural building requirements? Ed ---

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread Mike Schwab
-Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353 >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:59 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: St

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread Mike Schwab
t; From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353 > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:59 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine > hardware

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread Ed Gould
Paul: A Bank I used to work for had "tons" of credit card (remember the days when they issued a receipt w/carbon paper and a "card" in the back ? They read them in (scanned?) I never saw that part of the operation other than they wheeled carts of cards through the computer room. I *vague

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread Kirk Wolf
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Barry Merrill wrote: > I think a box of 2000 IBM cards is on the order of 6 pounds, > so a TON of JCL cards would be 333 boxes, or about 666,666 > card images. > > But, the useful weight is zero, since we only use the holes. > > Barry > > Since this is a thread we

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread zMan
SERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Barry Merrill > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 12:42 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: (External):Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward > way to determine hardware architecture level?] > > I think a box of 2000

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread J O Skip Robinson
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Barry Merrill Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 12:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?] I think a box of 2000 IBM cards is on the order

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015 14:41:58 -0600, Barry Merrill wrote: >I think a box of 2000 IBM cards is on the order of 6 pounds, >so a TON of JCL cards would be 333 boxes, or about 666,666 >card images. > >But, the useful weight is zero, since we only use the holes. > But as XKCD once said, "Four boxes of p

Re: What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread Barry Merrill
t's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?] Re: "ton" of JCL, at least one large shop of my prior acquaintance (20 or so years ago) had over 250,000 members in the production applications JCL libraries. Not sure how much of

What's a "ton" of JCL? [was:RE: Straightforward way to determine hardware architecture level?]

2015-12-01 Thread Farley, Peter x23353
Re: "ton" of JCL, at least one large shop of my prior acquaintance (20 or so years ago) had over 250,000 members in the production applications JCL libraries. Not sure how much of that was obsolete at the time, but the batch operations control product they used had vast quantities of data as we