AW: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
sto...@interchip.de (David Stokes) writes: No, that wasn't me. Not that I really dispute such facts, just the assumption that anyone could have done much better at the time (and also provided an OS that normal people could use fairly easily). -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag von Anne Lynn Wheeler Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juli 2012 23:10 An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? sto...@interchip.de (David Stokes) writes: The virus vulnerability (and number of spambots and DOS attack bots) on the Internet is much more a function of the Operating Systems of the user nodes connected to the Internet than of the Internet itself. Much of the current problem stems from early MS Windows design philosophy, which didn't take the Internet seriously and implicitly assumed networking and data sharing would would only involve local networking where all parties had benign intent; so, MS made it easy for machines to share active content that could access and alter content on remote machines or even initiate remote programs on other machines, and put the integrity management burden on end users without providing any tools to make management possible. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#84 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#87 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#88 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#89 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#90 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? early days of desktop computing was stand-alone machines ... with some number of applications (like games) evolving that effectively took over whole machine. later small business (safe) local-area-networks also evolved for desktop machines. in both these environments, desktop machines didn't have any countermeasures for attacks or compromises. for the small business, safe, local-area-networks ... convention developed where automatic scripting (typically basic) was added to application-specific (mostly business) data files ... these files would be exchanged on the small business, safe, LAN environment ... where applications would automatically execute the embedded scripts included in the data files. at the 1996 MSDC conference at Moscone ... all the banners were proclaiming support for the internet ... however he subtheme in all the sessions were protecting your investment ... basically paradigm of automatic execution of embedded scripts in application data files would continue ... and there would be simple retargeting of the small, safe LAN support to the internet (with no additional countermeasures for attacks or compromises) I've periodically used the analogy of going out the airlock in open space w/o a spacesuit. Before he disappeared, Jim Gray had con'ed me into interviewing for position of chief security architect in Redmond. The interview went on over a period of serveral weeks but we were never able to come to agreement ... i even used the above description describing the situation (lack of countermeasures) during the interview process. a few past posts mentioning 1996 MSDC at Moscone: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#26 realtors (and GM, too!) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#63 who pioneered the WEB http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#66 What is the protocal for GMT offset in SMTP (e-mail) header http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#37 (slightly OT - Linux) Did IBM bet on the wrong OS? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#36 Favourite computer history books? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#9 The IETF is probably the single element in the global equation of technology competition than has resulted in the INTERNET http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#40 The Great Cyberheist http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#50 IBM and the Computer Revolution http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#58 IBM and the Computer Revolution http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#15 Identifying Latest zOS Fixes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#57 Are Tablets a Passing Fad? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#59 The lost art of real programming http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#141 With cloud computing back to old problems as DDos attacks http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#81 The PC industry is heading for collapse http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#93 Where are all the old tech workers? and few past posts using empty space w/o spacesuit http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#77 ZeuS attacks mobiles in bank SMS bypass scam http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#19 E-commerce and Internet Security: Why Walls
Re: ShopZseries Change
Oh no, time to talk to the network team, which is always painful :D I think the first hostname in the table is wrong ddelivery03-bld.dhe.ibm.com. Looks like an extra d on the front. Worth noting that the new IP addresses are additional. The old IP addresses are still used for other delivery functions. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: useful? XML encoded SMF.
I imagine a tool to extract particular types of SMF data, maybe summarize and export as Xml for further processing could be pretty useful. That would not necessarily be an excessive load on Xml tools, although maybe one underestimates the processing power of a modern PC. Certainly processing raw SMF data is a somewhat specialized operation. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag von Andrew Rowley Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Juli 2012 10:46 An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: useful? XML encoded SMF. You would have more chance convincing vendors to write something if you at least pretended you might pay money for it ;-) I don't think it would be particularly difficult to incorporate output to XML into EasySMF, but I'm not convinced that SMF data in XML format would be generally useful. The volume of SMF data is difficult enough to deal with in binary form. XML would be worse. Are the XML reporting programs really able to cope with the quantity of data that comes from SMF? Regards Andrew Rowley -- Andrew Rowley Black Hill Software Pty. Ltd. Phone: +61 413 302 386 EasySMF for z/OS: Interactive SMF Reports on Your PC http://www.smfreports.com On 25/07/2012 2:46 AM, McKown, John wrote: In my case, it is strictly due to the lack of tools on z/OS. We used to have SAS and MXG. That was perfect. We then lost SAS due to cost. So we ran MXG on a PC running SAS. But that was then considered to be too expensive too. So we lost SAS and MXG. We now have _nothing_ and no money to buy anything. But management would still like to see graphs and charts. So we have a few HLASM in-house written programs. Which extract some information which is downloaded to a PC running Excel. Which is used to make the pretty pictures so beloved by management. In addition to this, our management is still pushing us to try to reduce our Group Capacity cap so that we will save even more money due to reduced license costs. So, if I could have XML formatted SMF data, I could easily download and process that on my Linux desktop. Because Linux, and the software I run on it, does not cost the company anything other than electricity to run the PC. And I have many tools on my Linux system which can process XML and then create graphs from the processd data. IOW, it is not enthusiasm ... against all rational argument, it is for my convience due to lack of money. If management didn't want the graphs, I wouldn't care one bit about SMF - XML. And yes, I could write it myself. But my manager is against that due to the necessity of our doing maintenance to any in house written code if IBM makes changes to an SMF record that we use. So, in reality, there is no real reason to think that IBM, and other vendors, would be interested in this. But dreaming is still free. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: useful? XML encoded SMF.
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:00:47 +0200, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl wrote: ... ??? Lol - well, what followed didn't transcribe too well. Interesting product - some time ago I looked at knocking up some C code to ship RMF data from the Distributor down to a Linux client so I could do a poor mans RMFIII. Ugly, seriously ugly to get big-endian binary data full of binary zeroes down a little-endian client. Had a play with Python for the GUI, but it was hard work. Then IBM announced the were planning on shipping the CIM server (I *did* say some time ago). Whoot !!!. Time passed, the world changed ... But there is a lot to be said for a properly constructed XML solution to this data -all of it, not just (some of) the RMF records. As an aside, I was also going to plug Barrys solution (lots of customers like that), but he got in first. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using CGIPARSE in REXX
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:21:44 -0500, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: This is a snippet from a REXX CGI that has been running for a few years: /* get the POST data into the qs variable */ qs= do while(lines()) snip Thanks for the info John, it looks to me like cgiparse was ported to rexx without concern as to whether it was useful in a rexx environment or not. Your examples are both a little too heavyweight for my application, I think I will parse the Query string myself. Dana -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: useful? XML encoded SMF.
BMC do the SMF to XML in their performance product, that I played with a few years ago. Personally I prefer Barry's solution, as it just does it as is without XML, but I am biased having used it for more years than I care to remember. Paul G... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Shane Ginnane Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2012 9:10 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: useful? XML encoded SMF. On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:00:47 +0200, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl wrote: ... ??? Lol - well, what followed didn't transcribe too well. Interesting product - some time ago I looked at knocking up some C code to ship RMF data from the Distributor down to a Linux client so I could do a poor mans RMFIII. Ugly, seriously ugly to get big-endian binary data full of binary zeroes down a little-endian client. Had a play with Python for the GUI, but it was hard work. Then IBM announced the were planning on shipping the CIM server (I *did* say some time ago). Whoot !!!. Time passed, the world changed ... But there is a lot to be said for a properly constructed XML solution to this data -all of it, not just (some of) the RMF records. As an aside, I was also going to plug Barrys solution (lots of customers like that), but he got in first. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AW: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
In E36DC330434FBA4ABA45590D5370A88B076C4765@INTERCHIP-SBS.interchip.local, on 07/24/2012 at 12:19 PM, David Stokes sto...@interchip.de said: Yeah, right. Much better to restrict it to government and corporations who never abuse things. That's your proposal, not mine, TYVM. What would have been better would have been a planned transition that included the same type of oversight that ARPA and NSF had with regard to network abuse. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
In 500ec8bf.5020...@acm.org, on 07/24/2012 at 11:09 AM, Joel C. Ewing jcew...@acm.org said: That certainly would have been nice, but I'm not convinced anyone at the time understood the potential scope of those problems, They understood enough to warn against it, whether or not they understood how bad it would be. much less would have been seriously motivated to have come up with a technical solution It's not a technical problem, it's a managerial and political problem. The virus vulnerability (and number of spambots and DOS attack bots) on the Internet is much more a function of the Operating Systems of the user nodes connected to the Internet than of the Internet itself. It's the predictable result of not cutting off providers that tolerate abuse and compromised systems. But does anyone think MS would have had any inclination to harden their Windows designs and reduce virus vulnerability if they were not forced to do it by problems made evident by connecting Windows systems to the Internet? Are you agreeing with me? Because forcing providers to drop compromised clients would have forced M$ to clean up its act. Even motivated by that pressure What pressure? They had no economic incentive to fix the problems. In hindsight we can now see things that should have been done better, but I doubt if much of that would have been obvious without our experience with the current Internet. It was obvious at the time, although nobody publicly predicted just how bad it would get. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
In cae1xxdher2jjpx0cyzr+ku8g-6afdj7n4q13ww7g+jbe-hx...@mail.gmail.com, on 07/24/2012 at 04:09 PM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com said: The scientific community made early and significant use of the DARPA predecessor of today's Internet, and almost none of the problems that afflict us today emerged during that period. There was no money to be made by chicanery, and little of it therefore occurred. The reason that there was no money to be made was that ARPA and later NSF would cut you off at the knees if you tried. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: REXX ISPF edit FIND failing
In 9251321842665626.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on 07/24/2012 at 10:39 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: And remembering that Rexx considers lower case characters special. Not quite, but the default value of an uninitialized variable is the upper case name. Do these have different semantics? No; ISREDIT will recognize the extraneous ISREDIT command and process the remainder of the string. However, these have the same semantics: Address ISREDIT foo Address ISREDIT foo If ISPF assumes that an ampersand in a command string has special meaning to the scripting language It doesn't. '(L) = LINE' ILine Is this yet another convention? Yes. Is it not sufficient? Not with current ISPF syntax. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
That's your proposal, not mine, TYVM You're welcome. My proposal being quite ironically intended, of course. One really has to ask however what exactly In an anarchic fashion that opened us up to all sorts of network abuse. actually means or what the proposed solution would actually look like. Of course it's easily to refer to something like a planned transition that included the same type of oversight... without giving any hint of what it really means. What is and who decides what is abuse, then? And who is going to be in charge of not allowing it? And what exactly would this look like? I see basically two possibilities, not allowing unauthorized people onto the Net at all (now who might they be?) or expanding the technology to enable authorities to control and censor anything they didn't like and only allow access to government/corporate authorized services. Well of course, there have been and still are plenty of attempts to do exactly that. All of them come down to restricting normal people's access with extended government and/or corporate control. Which would of course lead to exactly the second part of my proposal. Is that then what you are actually hoping for? . And whether that would really mean maybe without the epidemics of, e.g., spam, virus attacks, DOS attacks. is highly dubious. All attempts to create security in computer systems seem to be doomed as clever people find ways around them. The Internet is more like a living organism that wants to live and expand than a traditional piece of technology. As far as counterfactuals go though, I'm actually pretty sure that with planned transition and oversight we wouldn't have an Internet at all, just some more pipes for advertising, entertainment and (mis)information. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag von Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juli 2012 23:30 An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: AW: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? In E36DC330434FBA4ABA45590D5370A88B076C4765@INTERCHIP-SBS.interchip.local, on 07/24/2012 at 12:19 PM, David Stokes sto...@interchip.de said: Yeah, right. Much better to restrict it to government and corporations who never abuse things. That's your proposal, not mine, TYVM. What would have been better would have been a planned transition that included the same type of oversight that ARPA and NSF had with regard to network abuse. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
AW: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
No. Starting ten years lat(t)er is your concept, not mine Well no, not mine. I wasn't responding to you here. I like your fantasy view of how things might have been, though. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag von Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juli 2012 23:51 An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? In E36DC330434FBA4ABA45590D5370A88B076C4863@INTERCHIP-SBS.interchip.local, on 07/24/2012 at 08:00 PM, David Stokes sto...@interchip.de said: In other words, if everything had happened ten years later we would now be around the same point we were 10 years ago. No. Starting ten years latter is your concept, not mine. No one could have foreseen the problems the Internet would bring until there was an Internet. The Internet started with the ARPAnet-MILNET split. Not only could people forsee the problems of uncontrolled commercialization, they *did* forsee those problems and their warnings were ignored. Otoh, without Windows, who really would have been using the Internet Pretty much everybody who is now. Without windows they'd be running, e.g., OS/2, MacOS, Linux. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using CGIPARSE in REXX
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dana Mitchell Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Using CGIPARSE in REXX On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:21:44 -0500, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: This is a snippet from a REXX CGI that has been running for a few years: /* get the POST data into the qs variable */ qs= do while(lines()) snip Thanks for the info John, it looks to me like cgiparse was ported to rexx without concern as to whether it was useful in a rexx environment or not.Your examples are both a little too heavyweight for my application, I think I will parse the Query string myself. Dana That's reasonable. However, always remember that example code (especially from me), is not always the best possible implementation. Mine was just what I came up with. And the code is not used very often, perhaps 20 times per month, so it doesn't really need to be optimal. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? snip Otoh, without Windows, who really would have been using the Internet Pretty much everybody who is now. Without windows they'd be running, e.g., OS/2, MacOS, Linux. What, no mention of CP/M-86? I don't think that MP/M ever had a x86 version. I do remember running Pick on my XT clone. Now that was a weird beastie. And you totally ignored things like the Amiga. I loved what I saw of that software. I wish now that my boss at the time hadn't convinced me to go with an XT clone. Also IBM Instruments(?) had a Motorola 68000 based system. And the joys of the ATT 3B series of machines cannot be overstated. VBG Man, I loved that era of many different choices. Now, it is basically Wintel. Windows is so entrenched that, IMO, it will only be shaken loose by a major change in paradim. Perhaps a super tablet, which are dominated today by Android and iOS. I don't know about the new Windows 8 tablets. If they run like Windows PCs, people are not going to like them. They'll be overpriced, under performing (bloat), and the software will cost too much. The Andoid SDK is totally cost free. So anybody with a PC can develop Android code. I cannot imagine MS giving away their SDK. Unless they are clever and begin with a zero cost SDK, then start increasing the price if Windows on tablets become a majority. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) writes: What, no mention of CP/M-86? I don't think that MP/M ever had a x86 version. I do remember running Pick on my XT clone. Now that was a weird beastie. And you totally ignored things like the Amiga. I loved what I saw of that software. I wish now that my boss at the time hadn't convinced me to go with an XT clone. before windows there was ms-dos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS before ms-dos there was seattle computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Computer_Products/a before seattle computer there was cp/m http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/M/a and before cp/m, kildall worked on cp/67 (cms) at npg (gone 404, but lives on at the wayback machine) http://web.archive.org/web/20071011100440/http://www.khet.net/gmc/docs/museum/en_cpmName.html/a cp67 not just npg ... but also various other places ... also gone 404 but lives on at the wayback machine http://web.archive.org/web/20090117083033/http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/list-archive/0409/8362.shtml as undergraduate in the 60s, I was doing lots of operating system stuff and even got requests from vendor to do certain things. I didn't learn about those guys until a long time later ... but in retrospect, some of the change requests were of the nature that they may have originated from such organizations. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
I can certainly see some value in remotely shutting down PCs, assuming one can be absolutely certain that it is a legitimate operation. Of course, whoever has this power probably won't stop there. And then again how will one get back on the Net? I see a host of other problems with such attempts. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag von Anne Lynn Wheeler Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Juli 2012 15:54 An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? sto...@interchip.de (David Stokes) writes: is highly dubious. All attempts to create security in computer systems seem to be doomed as clever people find ways around them. The Internet is more like a living organism that wants to live and expand than a traditional piece of technology. As far as counterfactuals go though, I'm actually pretty sure that with planned transition and oversight we wouldn't have an Internet at all, just some more pipes for advertising, entertainment and (mis)information. in the 90s, the major (internet) exploit was from buffer overflow vulnerabilities related to C-language programming convention for handling strings. The vm/370 tcp/ip product implementation was done in vs/pascal (earlier in thread, I mentioned having done rfc1044 support for the product, getting possibly 500 times improvement in the bytes moved per instruction executed) ... and had none of the buffer overflow vulnerabilities found in c-language implementations. Multics operating system was implementated in PLI and old security vulnerability assessment found no buffer overflow vulnerabilities found in C-language implementations. lots of past posts mentioning buffer overflow vulnerability http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#overflow IBM research did a study/paper/presentation Thirty Years Later: Lessons from the Multics Security Evaluation (one of the references was no buffer overflow vulnerabilities) http://www.acsac.org/2002/papers/classic-multics.pdf security evaluation paper http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/history/karg74.pdf About a decade ago, the exploits had shifted to approx. 1/3rd buffer overflow vulnerability (related to c-language features), 1/3rd automatic scripting vulnerability (previously mentioned from 1996 Moscone MSDC), and 1/3rd various forms of social engineering (enticing individuals to executing malware applications which would install exploit code into their machines). Earlier in the thread, I also mentioned in the 90s, there was EU FINREAD standard that was countermeasure for malware compromised internet-connected PCs (but various unfortunate circumstances resulted in abandoning the effort). Part of the issue is that there is a fundamental different security paradigm for desktop machines that operate stand-alone and/or on small, safe networks and require no security countermeasures (especially those with heritage of applications, like games, that have convention of taking over the machine) ... and internet appliances ... nearly diamtetrically opposing security requirements (my early reference to going out into open space w/o spacesuit). old post of some work I did on CVE database (2623 reported vulnerability descriptions) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#43 I was trying to categorize CVE vulnerabilityexploit reports. I talked to the CVE people about suggestion for requiring more structure in the reports ... but at the time, their response was they were lucky to even get the unstructured descriptions. earlier posts in this thread: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#84 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#87 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#88 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#89 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#90 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#93 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#94 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
John, I agree, there seems to be no sense of responsibility. Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Jul 24, 2012, at 4:09 PM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote: The scientific community made early and significant use of the DARPA predecessor of today's Internet, and almost none of the problems that afflict us today emerged during that period. There was no money to be made by chicanery, and little of it therefore occurred. Things are now very different. The availability of millions of new Internet dupes has spawned whole new classes of crime and greatly facilitated others that are much older than it is. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) writes: What, no mention of CP/M-86? I don't think that MP/M ever had a x86 version. I do remember running Pick on my XT clone. Now that was a weird beastie. And you totally ignored things like the Amiga. I loved what I saw of that software. I wish now that my boss at the time hadn't convinced me to go with an XT clone. re: http:/www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#98 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? other folklore trivia from silicon valley ... long ago and far away at some silicon valley watering hole gathering of current former people working on vm370 ... talking to some vm370 sysprog that had worked at another vendor ... described how he had done the mp/m implementation. for another article drifing back to the original post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? Obama Was Right: The Government Invented the Internet; Don't believe the outrageous conservative claim that every tech innovation came from private enterprise. http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/07/who_invented_the_internet_the_outrageous_conservative_claim_that_every_tech_innovation_came_from_private_enterprise_.html above also references: Brief History of the Internet http://www.internetsociety.org/internet/internet-51/history-internet/brief-history-internet History of the Internet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet a similar discussion played out in a.f.c. in the late 90s ... part of the posts in that discussion archived here http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm as an aside ... during the 90s, the RFC (internet standards) editor (Jon Postel) ... use to let me do part of the updates for the periodic STD1 other posts in this thread: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#84 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#87 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#88 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#89 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#90 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#93 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#94 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#97 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Some IBM internet IP addresses changing on 26 Aug 2012
On 24 Jul 2012 14:43:08 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: For your awareness (this information is provided in lots of other places, but I wanted to repeat it here): SMP/E Internet Service Retrieval and Shopz download servers will change hostname and public internet IP addresses on August 26, 2012. These IP address changes may require customer action. See http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg3T1018808 . Why should customers have to be aware of this? Can you see Microsoft being able to deliver the similar functions to its users (including me) if they did this sort of thing? IBM is relying on the fact that its customers in the z area are paid to check this sort of thing. However if this means updating network security to recognize the new addresses, there can be problems. Frankly, changing the names and addresses seems to be user surly. I realize that you are the messenger and this is a (mis in my opinion)management issue but if others agree with me, maybe this can be brought up at SHARE and other venues. Clark Morris Thanks, Marna WALLE z/OS System Install IBM Poughkeepsie -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
Otoh, without Windows, who really would have been using the Internet Pretty much everybody who is now. Without windows they'd be running, e.g., OS/2, MacOS, Linux. Quite funny you'd say that. Now I was also around in those times. I remember struggling to get TCP/IP to work on OS/2 for our P/390. So much for OS/2. I was connecting with bulletin boards and using the Compuserve network back then (remember me?) W95 was the first OS that made using the Internet more or less practical (well, for normal people). Linux was almost uninstallable for non-specialists until sometime in the 2000s (and maybe still is) and would probably never have existed in its present form without the Internet as we know it (ie, without all that oversight). And re IE and Mac, well IE was the standard browser for many years, I seem to recall. Also we know what a lover Apple is of open systems. Of course back then they were competing with MS. After getting their successful iPhone monopoly the gloves came off. Great world it would be if you could only access the Internet from your PC via Apple authorized applications. Of course it's just so easy to claim all this stuff and assert eg that security issues were obvious at the time (amongst the computer elite, one supposes). I remember when you could get into supervisor state with the SPIE macro, and the ages it took IBM to integrate RACF fully with the rest of the OS. Experience comes slowly and mostly after the issues have become very obvious, I would tend to say. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag von Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juli 2012 23:51 An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? In E36DC330434FBA4ABA45590D5370A88B076C4863@INTERCHIP-SBS.interchip.local, on 07/24/2012 at 08:00 PM, David Stokes sto...@interchip.de said: In other words, if everything had happened ten years later we would now be around the same point we were 10 years ago. No. Starting ten years latter is your concept, not mine. No one could have foreseen the problems the Internet would bring until there was an Internet. The Internet started with the ARPAnet-MILNET split. Not only could people forsee the problems of uncontrolled commercialization, they *did* forsee those problems and their warnings were ignored. Otoh, without Windows, who really would have been using the Internet Pretty much everybody who is now. Without windows they'd be running, e.g., OS/2, MacOS, Linux. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Replacing CA products
For Panvalet/PanAPT, in addition to SCLM you might (also) consider IBM Rational ClearCase or Rational Team Concert. IBM has three solid choices in that general category. RDz and ISPF work with all of them. If you're a CICS Transaction Server shop then CICS Configuration Manager may be relevant if you have a lot of developer deploy/test cycles into CICS, particularly for complex applications. Timothy Sipples Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Who's blacklisting IBM-MAIN
Attempting to connect to the archives from my employer's WAN, I get: Compliance Alert:URL - http://listserv.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=ibm-main; Category - Malicious Sites And access to the archives is unbearably slow to impossible from elsewhere. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Who's blacklisting IBM-MAIN
I got to the archive url without any problem. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:14 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Who's blacklisting IBM-MAIN Attempting to connect to the archives from my employer's WAN, I get: Compliance Alert:URL - http://listserv.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=ibm-main; Category - Malicious Sites And access to the archives is unbearably slow to impossible from elsewhere. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Replacing CA products
Mitch, As an example, IBM does not have an internal solution but instead uses other vendors. I dont know where you get that information. My recent past and present experience is that IBM has a strong presence in this area - The SMPO (Systems Migration Project Office) provides strong and experienced services in this area. I am not saying they always do it themselves - I also know they can contract out .. Mike Wood -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
FFST question
Does anyone know if the FFSTCKPT, FFSTLOGx AND FFSTDUMP data sets must be unique? I always thought they must be setup by system... but I can't find anything to confirm or deny whether they are unique or shared. Rob Schramm Senior Systems Consultant Imperium Group -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
l...@garlic.com (Anne Lynn Wheeler) writes: cp67 not just npg ... but also various other places ... also gone 404 but lives on at the wayback machine http://web.archive.org/web/20090117083033/http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/list-archive/0409/8362.shtml re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#98 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? majority of the internal network was vm370 ... since MVS/JES2 nodes had to be relegated to mostly boundary nodes ... JES2 was unable to define the complete network and had unpleasant characteristic of discarding traffic if the origin /or destination node wasn't in its local table. Also JES2 had periodic characteristic of crashing MVS ... when it received traffic that originated at JES2 at didn't release level (in fact, there was large library of VNET NJI drivers to talk to JES2 that specifically reformate traffic originating at other JES2 nodes to try and prevent MVS systems from crashing). also mentioned in this recent post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#90 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? this old post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#18 Unbelievable references: On p. 13 of The REXX Language by M.F. Cowlishaw, there's a reference to how the development was done. IBM has an internal network, known as VNET, that links over 1600 mainframe computers in 45 countries. That book is dated 1985. ... but 1600 count would have been when book was written before actual publication date. this old post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#26 DEC eNet: was Vnet : Unbelievable. has this statistic BITNET435 ARPAnet 1155 CSnet 104 (excluding ARPAnet overlap) VNET 1650 EasyNet 4200 UUCP 6000 USENET 1150 (excluding UUCP nodes) ... snip ... also from sometime in 1985 (up from 1000 nodes in 1983). But there are also references by end of 1985 there was 2000 nodes on the internal network ... referenced in this old email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#email850625 However, the arpanet/internet was rapidly increasing and sometime either late '85 or early '86 passed the internal network in number of network nodes. post containing the 25Jun85 email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#50 The Future of CPUs: What's After Multi-Core? references 435 BITNET nodes on 18Jan1985, 1155 arpanet nodes 22Jan1985 and by 1988 there were 2691 nodes (BITNET/NETNORTH/EARN). Big boost for arpanet/internet growth was switch-over to internetworking protocol on 1jan1983 (and off the IMP-based arpanet ... approx. only 100 IMPs and 255 hosts on 1jan1983). The other factor in internet exceeding size of internal network ... was the communication group trying to preserve its dumb terminal oriented paradigm ... with the internal network being restricted to mainframe hosts ... while the internet nodes were starting to include a growing number of workstation and PC nodes. there were numerous efforts by communication group to protect their dumb terminal paradigm and install base ... also discussed http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#90 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Who's blacklisting IBM-MAIN
I get Bad Reputation when using http://listserv.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=ibm-main but can get in using https://listserv.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=IBM-MAINX=0037327AD56875015C -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
2014 (yes, 2014) VM Workshop location survey online.
Cross-posted to Linux-390, IBVVM, and IBM-MAIN discussion lists. To: VM Workshop attendees and those who would like to attend, Background: The VM Workshop is a very inexpensive (registration only $100 each of the last 2 years), all-volunteer, 2.5 day technical conference held in mid-June and focused on z/VM, Linux for System z, and support of other guest operating systems (E.g. z/OS, z/VSE). For more info: see http://www.vmworkshop.org Were the locations of the latest two revived VM Workshops, and the previous workshop era sites unsuitable for your attendance? Do you have your own ideas for other VM Workshop locations that would encourage your attendance? Well... you now have a vote in future site selection! To submit your vote, please visit: http://www.vmworkshop.org/2014SiteSurvey The text before the survey describes the site selection criteria (cheap, easy airport/driving access, central-U.S.) and permits voting for up to two 2014 sites (2013 sites are already being analyzed). The survey probably won't be closed until mid-2013, so you can change your mind later and vote again - only your most recent vote will be counted. You are NOT required to be registered with a VM Workshop web site userid to vote; that's the point - permit those who have not attended to have a voice in the 2014 site selection so they can attend, too. Mike Walter On behalf of the VM Workshop Planning Committee -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:12:14 +, David Stokes wrote: Otoh, without Windows, who really would have been using the Internet Pretty much everybody who is now. Without windows they'd be running, e.g., OS/2, MacOS, Linux. I remember struggling to get TCP/IP to work on OS/2 for our P/390. So much for OS/2. I bought my first IBM-comapatible computer early in 1995. It came with Windows 3.1 installed and I bought OS/2 Warp 3 with it. Installed OS/2 and quickly connected via dial-up. At about the same time, I got my first computer at work, also with OS/2 Warp 3, which I installed and connected via ethernet with no problem. I was connecting with bulletin boards and using the Compuserve network back then (remember me?) I was doing the same in the early 1980's, with my second computer. And in 1973 I was occasionally using the Merit network to connect to work, so that I could work from home. W95 was the first OS that made using the Internet more or less practical (well, for normal people). Wrong. Linux was almost uninstallable for non-specialists until sometime in the 2000s (and maybe still is) LOL! And re IE and Mac, well IE was the standard browser for many years, I seem to recall. That's what M$ wants you to believe. And what M$ tried to force upon you. Also we know what a lover Apple is of open systems. What does that have to do with this discussion? Are you a troll? Of course back then they were competing with MS. Back when? 1977? 1980? Nope. After getting their successful iPhone monopoly the gloves came off. iPhone monopoly? If you mean that you can only get an iPhone from Apple, that's about as useful as saying that Ford has an F-150 monopoly. If you mean that Apple has monopolized the smart phone market, you have it wrong. They may be the most popular. That doesn't make them a monopoly. Microsoft has a monopoly on desktop operating systems. Apple does not have a monopoly on smart phones. To the extent that they might have for a while, it was because they designed and marketed an innovative product. One that many people want. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AW: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
In E36DC330434FBA4ABA45590D5370A88B076C4A24@INTERCHIP-SBS.interchip.local, on 07/25/2012 at 12:25 PM, David Stokes sto...@interchip.de said: No. Starting ten years lat(t)er is your concept, not mine Well no, not mine. I wasn't responding to you here. Well, you were responding to Joel C. Ewing who in turn was responding to me, but I don't see anything in his text remotely close to your In other words, if everything had happened ten years later we would now be around the same point we were 10 years ago. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
In E36DC330434FBA4ABA45590D5370A88B076C49FF@INTERCHIP-SBS.interchip.local, on 07/25/2012 at 12:21 PM, David Stokes sto...@interchip.de said: One really has to ask however what exactly In an anarchic fashion that opened us up to all sorts of network abuse. actually means It means not pulling the plug on abusers. or what the proposed solution would actually look like. ARPAnet and NSFnet, with a much larger set of nodes. Of course it's easily to refer to something like a planned transition that included the same type of oversight... without giving any hint of what it really means. But it's difficult to force people to pay attention to the hints, and it's easy for them to pretend that they weren't there. What is and who decides what is abuse, then? I would have been happy for it to continue to be NSF, but InterNIC was the obvious candidate. I see basically two possibilities, Look farther. Is that then what you are actually hoping for? Are you bank robber? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea0115baa1...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 07/25/2012 at 08:02 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: What, no mention of CP/M-86? It never had enough market share; DR-DOS would be more likely. And you totally ignored things like the Amiga. Did either Amiga or Atari have enough market share to count? I also ignored NeXT, which might have caught on. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
The Cookoo's Egg by Cliff Stoll Google it... PDF Damn good read. Jay Campbell IBM OS Support Section -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Anne Lynn Wheeler Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:48 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? sbire...@rocketsoftware.com (Steve Bireley) writes: About 10 years ago I was in a meeting with Vint Cerf and couple of others executive from Worldcom. One of our sales guys made a joke about Al Gore inventing the Internet. Instead of starting the meeting, Vint invited us to his office to show us pictures of him with Al Gore (and a bunch of other famous people), and gave us a short history lesson of the Internet and the large role Al Gore played in making the Internet available to the public instead of keeping it for the military and academia. Though Al's role was only legislative, I found it interesting that Vint Cerf gave him so much credit. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? as referenced upthread and old email, the NSFNET backbone funding was coming out of funding for the supercomputing efforts to promote better USA global computing competitiveness ... originally I was going to get $20m ... but then the NSF budget got cut and corporate politics prevented me from doing anything directly (and the communication group was spreading mis-information about how SNA would apply to NSFNET backbone). some other articles starting to appear ... like Obama Was Right: The Government Invented the Internet; Don't believe the outrageous conservative claim that every tech innovation came from private enterprise. http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/07/who_invented_the_internet_the_outrageous_conservative_claim_that_every_tech_innovation_came_from_private_enterprise_.html and No credit for Uncle Sam in creating Net? Vint Cerf disagrees http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57479781-93/no-credit-for-uncle-sam-in-creating-net-vint-cerf-disagrees/ one of the comments in the article: You might have ended up with OSI. Many engineers considered this to be an overly complex design and it was not very much implemented. ... snip ... I would suggest that one of the contributing factors for internet breaking free for commercial use ... was federal government started to mandate OSI (GOSIP) and the elimination of internet/tcpip. at interop88, lots of booths were showing OSI products for federal gov. federal gov. contractor customers. misc. past posts mentioning interop88 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#88 the other issue was there were a lot of commercial interests contributing (unfunded) resources to the NSFNET backbone with motivation to enhance environment for the development of the next generation bandwith hungry applications ... also mentioned upthread http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#88 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? browsers and html had started to appear ... and companies were being formed to produce commercial versions. mentioned in original post, GML evolution to SGML then HTML, as well as first webserver (on slac's vm370 system) outside europe one of the early browsers was done at the supercomputer appication datacenter/univ (part of the NSF supercomputer effort NSFNET backbone). people left and formed a startup in silicon valley. for other trivia ... we are doing ha/cmp product along with cluster scaleup ... old post with reference to early jan1992 meeting in ellison's conference room http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13 old cluster scaleup related email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa possibly within hrs of the last email in above (end Jan1992), the scaleup is transferred we are told we can't work on anything with more than four processors. within a couple weeks it is announced as supercomputer ... press item from 17Feb1992 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters1 we then decide to leave. now two of the other people in the early jan1992 meeting, also leave and join small client/server startup responsible for something called commerce server; we get called in to consult because they want to do payment transactions on their server; the startup had also invented technology called SSL, the result is now frequently called electronic commerce. The startup is also using a corporate name that was used at the supercomputer application datacenter/univ ... the univ objects. One of the major router vendors in silicon valley has an unused trademarked name that is donated for the startups new name. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the
Re: Using SSH or SCP in REXX under TSO
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:12:01 +, Uriel Carrasquilla wrote: Does anybody have a sample REXX that can be shared to either scp or ssh to remote Unix from TSO? I have seen JCL to that effect using BPXBATCH but I have not tried it since I need the REXX. Crudely (error recovery is left as an exercise for the student), but it works: /* Rexx */ signal on novalue; /* Doc: Using ssh from a Rexx EXEC. run on or */ trace R user_host = *** /* Sorry! */ source_file = *** parse source . RC = SYSCALLS( 'ON' ) address 'SYSCALL' 'open /dev/null' O_RDWR /* busy out stdin, stdout, stderr. */ 'open /dev/null' O_RDWR 'open /dev/null' O_RDWR say RC RETVAL 'open (source_file)' O_RDONLY stdin = RETVAL map.0 = stdin map.1 = 1 map.2 = 2 arg.1 = 'ssh' arg.2 = user_host arg.3 = 'set -x; cat foo-sshtest; echo done' arg.0 = 3 env.1 = 'PATH=/bin:/usr/sbin' env.0 = 1 'spawn /bin/ssh 3 map. arg. env.' say RC RETVAL 'close' stdin say RC RETVAL exit( RC ) -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: useful? XML encoded SMF.
Paul: WHOH there... SMF is an issue but the MVS control blocks (especially the TSOe ones) are frozen in stone. While I would not want to talk on IBM's behalf the proverbial hell would have to freeze over before any TSO/e control block would/could be changed. Ed On Jul 24, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:30:37 -0500, McKown, John wrote: Why? Because it is easier to process XML using standard tools, of which many exist in UNIX and Linux, if the XML does _not_ include binary blog data. And it is easier to ftp non-binary XML to an ASCII based system accurately in order to process it there. Yes, I still want to offload processing from z/OS to Linux. And if the SMF data themselves were kept in XML, obstacles to technological advances such as 64-bit addresses and usr iDs 7 characters would largely be removed. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: FFST question
Chris, I read that section of the manual. However, I don't think we are referencing the same dump data sets. The book is not remotely specific in regards to the treatment of these DD statements in the EPWFFST proc. I think that the section you are referencing are dynamic dumps that are in addition to the ones coded in the proc. Perhaps I am reading the manual incorrectly. But I think the phrase FFST will dynamically... indicates that the dynamic dumps are not related to the DD statements. From the book... When a software probe is executed and the caller chooses to request a dump, FFST will dynamically allocate a data set and generate an unformatted dump. The name of the data set will be as follows:user_name.system_name.applid.DMPx To add to the general weirdness, I have two systems sharing the FFSTLOGx DD and there are updates from both systems. Which I suppose is to be expected when using DISP=SHR. I cannot make any definitive statement as to the general integrity of the contents of the data set. VBG Rob Schramm On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Chris Mason chrisma...@belgacom.net wrote: Rob Does anyone know if the FFSTCKPT, FFSTLOGx AND FFSTDUMP data sets must be unique? I always find this form of posing a question very curious! The answer is always Yes if the product referenced is at the very least still being maintained.[1] I'm sure what you really and simply mean is as follows: Must the FFSTCKPT, FFSTLOGx AND FFSTDUMP data sets be unique? Or, more elaborately, as follows: Would someone be so kind as to tell me whether or not the FFSTCKPT, FFSTLOGx AND FFSTDUMP data sets must be unique? Anyhow the answer for at least the FFSTDUMP data set, as hinted in the sole manual covering MVS and VM FFST, is Yes. quote x is a sequence number which makes the dump data set name unique /quote http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/EPW1A103/1.2.1 Perhaps you just need to check the references to FFSTCKPT and FFSTLOGx in this sole manual to answer your question regarding the these other data sets. - [1] If you search the archives for the thread What is the point of FFST? from April, 2011, you will find that whether or not FFST is still being maintained was under discussion. Mr Zelden even simply considers FFST worthless - as one can assume does the Wizard of Lodz. - Chris Mason On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:55:39 -0400, Rob Schramm rob.schr...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know if the FFSTCKPT, FFSTLOGx AND FFSTDUMP data sets must be unique? I always thought they must be setup by system... but I can't find anything to confirm or deny whether they are unique or shared. Rob Schramm -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Who's blacklisting IBM-MAIN
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:13:50 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: And access to the archives is unbearably slow to impossible from elsewhere. Likewise profundo. Getting a full listing of (this) month on the web interface can take days (of attempting to refresh the page) to accomplish. And I though it was my flakey copper link or maybe a clogged pipe under the Pacific. Shane .. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Show the //SYSIN DD * lines when using TYPRUN=SCAN?
On 7/12/2012 3:57 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:27:37 +, Gibney, Dave wrote: Using the ST(atus) display instead of I, H, or O generally shows all the info you want. However, IIRC, it does not show SYSOUT dynamically allocated from a z/OS UNIX (USS) session. Something about such sessions are not jobs, thus not eligible for ST. Ed Jaffe, whom I trust fully, has said that (E)JES has an all-in-one display. I wish we could afford (E)JES for all our systems. I value your trust... :-) Yes, we go to great lengths to display so-called spin-off 'jobs' (those created via subtask JSAB) as if they are 'normal' jobs. For example, they are surfaced on STATUS and other job-oriented tabular displays. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Show the //SYSIN DD * lines when using TYPRUN=SCAN?
On 7/13/2012 5:47 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: In 6700504004248585.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on 07/12/2012 at 10:41 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: TYPRUN=SCAN's checking is a bad joke. IIRC, it fails to report errors as fundamental as DSNAME 44 characters. Is that true in JES3 or only in JES2? That particular error should be caught be the Interpreter, which JES2 does not invoke until the job is selected for execution. Not true in JES3. Both converter and interpreter are invoked at C/I time before the job is queued to wait for an initiator. The JCL errors JES2 does not catch are caught by JES3. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
