date:20131105

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 11:33:12 +, DASDBILL2 wrote:

 Every young person contemplating a mainframe career should spend a week 
 reading IBM-Main.  Maybe they do and that’s another reason why the profession 
 is dying. 

That's a bit close to the bone.

Shane ...

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Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-05 Thread Mark Jacobs


On 11/04/13 19:00, Ed Jaffe wrote:

On 11/4/2013 9:23 AM, Russ Teubner wrote:
I don't think customers mind using (and paying for) high-value MIPS 
for high-value apps. However, everything else (e.g., integration and 
plumbing) should be run on specialty engines (within the bounds of 
IBM's rules).


Agreed. For example, it would be good if monitors such a RMF and 
others did not use costly machine cycles.




The Tivoli Omegamon suite for one jumping up and down, waving hands

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Time Customer Service
Tampa, FL


The quiet ones are the ones that change the universe...
The loud ones only take the credit.

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers


On 5/11/2013 8:01 PM, Shane Ginnane wrote:

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 11:33:12 +, DASDBILL2 wrote:


Every young person contemplating a mainframe career should spend a week reading 
IBM-Main.  Maybe they do and that’s another reason why the profession is dying.

That's a bit close to the bone.


Indeed! It's and old story isn't it? If youngster's don't have easy 
access to a platform they will not be interested in it. They can install 
Linux on a cheap PC and hack away to their hearts content.
IBM really do need to wake up and start providing either emulation or 
cheap virtual machines to as many universities as they can reach.



Shane ...

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Re: How can I write this program to a load library


On 11/4/2013 8:59 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 20:21:38 -0700, Steve Comstock wrote:


To do that has nothing to do with COBOL: it's JCL you need to
brush up on. Point LKED.SYSLMOD to a PDS/PDSE that contains
load modules or program objects.


Be very careful doing that!  When I was very young I tried something
similar without understanding that the following GO step contained:

 //STEPLIB DD DISP=(OLD,DELETE),DSN=*.LKED.SYSLMOD

Oops!

-- gil




Yeah, I did something similar once. State of New Mexico was down
for two days.

But the point is that the OP really needs to beef up his understanding
of JCL as well as his knowledge of COBOL if he is teaching for the
z/OS environment.

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The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-355-2752
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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread Ronald Kristel

On the contrary..., I subscribed to IBM-Main mainly because it actually helped 
me understand a few things on my road of 'learning z/OS'. 

For me,  It is usually the 'history' that is missing for understanding why 
certain things work as they work today.  (Cobol v5.1, PDSE .. thread for 
example ;) )

 

 

 

Ronald Kristel

 

NL

 

 
 

 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 11:33:12 +
 From: dasdbi...@comcast.net
 Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 
  Every young person contemplating a mainframe career should spend a week 
reading IBM-Main.  
 
 
 
 
 Bill Fairchild 
 
 Franklin, TN 
 
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Re: How can I write this program to a load library

2013-11-05 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht

Paul Gilmartin wrote:

 Be very careful doing that!  When I was very young I tried something similar 
 without understanding that the following GO step contained:
  //STEPLIB DD DISP=(OLD,DELETE),DSN=*.LKED.SYSLMOD
 Oops!

A common trap. RACF can help you to protect your dataset with access = UPDATE. 
This is why production loadlibs should not start with your userid.

One of my users, an ancient and somewhat crazy lady has a bad habit to delete 
her datasets and then ringing up the director (instead just calling our direct 
boss) saying WE deleted her things. When the director's contract was ending, 
he/she just call the new director and warn him/her about that troublesome user. 
Eventually we have a daily batch job which run backups incrementally. ;-)

Steve Comstock wrote:
Yeah, I did something similar once. State of New Mexico was down for two days.

Two days! Ouch. You really make those New Mexicans very OLD!! ;-)

But the point is that the OP really needs to beef up his understanding of JCL 
as well as his knowledge of COBOL if he is teaching for the z/OS environment.

Agreed. 

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: How can I write this program to a load library

2013-11-05 Thread George Young


Have a look at

http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg27036733

and pick your compiler version release and have a look at the 
Programming Guide chapter that discusses cataloged procedures.


For example, for Enterprise COBOL for z/OS 4.2, see Chapter 14 Compiling 
under z/OS, section Using a Cataloged Procedure.


You might also want to reference the JCL books and consider breaking 
this into 2 steps, 1 that does the compile and link, and one that does 
the GO, which is a better example of the 'real world'  (where compile, 
link and go are rarely done at the same time).


For JCL books, I'd start here:

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/bkserv/

there are lots of ways to find books in there, so I won't try to go into 
that, but you want to look for these 2


MVS JCL Reference
MVS JCL User's Guide

George


On 11/4/2013 9:49 PM, Cameron Seay wrote:

All:

I am a re-newbie to COBOL (learned it years ago but it's very rusty). I am 
teaching it to my students because it's a great job skill now.  Below is job 
that contains the source code inline and runs great.  It compiles, links and 
runs error free.  What I want is the syntax to place the LOAD module into a 
data set.  I tried what I thought would work, but it didn't.  Many thanks!

//KC02177B JOB (12345678),'V HAMPTON',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=0M,
// NOTIFY=SYSUID,MSGCLASS=A,CLASS=A
//
//COBOL1  EXEC IGYWCLG,
//  PARM.COBOL='TEST,RENT,APOST,OBJECT,NODYNAM,LIB,SIZE(5048376)'
//COBOL.SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
//COBOL.SYSIN DD *
IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. 
0004
PROGRAM-ID.  PROG1.  
0006
AUTHOR. VICKI HAMPTON.
   *  LAB EXERCISE 1.
0007
ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
0009
CONFIGURATION SECTION.   
0011
INPUT-OUTPUT SECTION.
0017
FILE-CONTROL.
0019
 SELECT INPUT-FILE   ASSIGN TO DA-S-INPUT.   
0021
 SELECT PRNT-FILEASSIGN TO UR-S-PRNT.
0024
   *   INPUT-FILE IS THE NAME THE PROGRAM WILL USE
   *DA-S-INPUT TELLS JCL TO ASSIGN THE INPUT DATA
   *TO THE FILE NAME INPUT-FILE, SAME FOR PRNT-FILE
   *AND UR-S-PRNT
EJECT
0025
   *   EJECT DIRECTS THE PRINTER TO START THE NEXT
   *   OUTPUT TO BEGIN AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE
DATA DIVISION.   
0026
SKIP3
0027
   *   SKIP 3 INSERTS 3 BLANK LINES
FILE SECTION.
0028
SKIP2
0029
   *SKIP TO INSERTS 2 BLANK LINES
FD  INPUT-FILE   
0030
BLOCK CONTAINS 0 RECORDS 
0031
   *  THIS INFORMS THE SYSTEM THAT NO RECORDS ARE PRESENT
   *  WHEN WE START (WE ARE READING OUR DATA FROM
   *  AN INLINE STREAM
LABEL RECORDS ARE STANDARD.  
0032
01  INPUT-REC PIC X(80). 033
SKIP2
0034
FD  PRNT-FILE
0045
LABEL RECORDS ARE OMITTED.   
0046
01  PRNT-REC.
0047
03   PIC X(60).
03   PIC X(65).
   *  THIS IS FORMATTING FOR OUR REPORT
SKIP2
0048
EJECT
0049
WORKING-STORAGE SECTION. 
0050
SKIP2
0051
   **
0052
   *   LAYOUT FOR THE INPUT FILE   *0053
   **
0054
01  INPUT-DATA.  
0055
03  I-NAME PIC X(20).
0057
03  DEPT   PIC X(10).
03  FILLER PIC X(50).
0058
   *  FILLER IS USED FOR PADDING
SKIP2

Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-05 Thread Mike Wawiorko

If this is a z/OS system consider AT-TLS instead of openssl.


Mike Wawiorko
 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Janet Graff
Sent: 04 November 2013 17:25
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: using ./Configure to generate listing files

I am attempting to build openssl on the mainframe.  Can I set up my ./Configure 
OS390 line to generate a listing file for every module compiled?



I need something like this

OS/390,c99:-O -Wc,ascii -Wc,LIST(fname.LIST) -DB_ENDIAN -DNO_SYS_PARAM_H 
-D_ALL_SOURCE -DASCII -D_XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED=1 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 
-D_POSIX_SOURCE -D_OPEN_THREADS=2 
-DOPENSSL_EXPORT_VAR_AS_FUNCTION::-DPTHREAD:::THIRTY_TWO_BIT DES_PTR DES_UNROLL 
MD2_CHAR RC4_INDEX RC4_CHAR BF_PTR:::,

where the fname on the LIST option is whatever the name of the currently 
compiling module is. 

Is this not the way to do this?  Is there a better way?

Janet Graff

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Re: soft capping query

2013-11-05 Thread mario@tiscali

A LPAR exceeding its defined capacity will be soft-capped i.e. not 
allowed to exceed it (in your example 350msu) until the 4HRA drops below 
the defined capacity. So in your terms it will still enjoy the soft 
capping value.


This also means that 4HRA will potentially keep growing above the 
defined capacity for some time.


Hope this helps,
mario

On 11/05/2013 11:47 AM, Tommy Tsui wrote:

hi all,
I   want to clarify, if the relative weight is 531msu for only one lpar,
the defined capacity = 350 msu, this lpar may enjoy the 4 hour rolling
average exceed the defined capacity if first 2 hours utilized ony 100msu,
is it right, if this lpar keep continue busy greater than defined capacity
350 msu, what happen to the actual utilization, is it still enjoy the soft
capping 350 msu or lower than 350msu?

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers


On 11/5/2013 12:51 AM, Robin Atwood wrote:

Diverting the thread a tad, does anyone know where you can do an HLASM
course? My young colleague wants to be inducted into the mysteries of the
ancient craft and we found various IBM courses (see below) but none of them
are currently being offered. Of course, various outfits are happy to come to
your shop and give one-on-one instruction, but HR won't wear the expense of
that.



Well, there may be a middle way ...

If you have someone who can mentor your colleague, perhaps
you could purchase our course materials and have him or
her take these courses as mentored self-study.

This allows the student to go at their own pace. And it
allows your organization to use the materials to teach
other students later at no additional charge.

With our going out of business sale in full swing, you can
purchase our four main Assembler courses for USD 2600 (actually,
if you buy them all at the same time the price is just USD 2210).

Of course, the student may need an ISPF course and / or a JCL
course at some time in the process: it's not clear what they
already know.

The price is just USD 200 per course day to purchase any of our
courses in the sale; and if you buy ten or more days at one time
you get an additional 15% off.

These are complete training kits: lecture version, handout version,
setup notes, instructor notes, data for lab files.


You can use this page as a price calculator:

  http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale/LicenseOrderForm.html

plug in various options and it shows you the price; then instead
of placing an order (the 'Submit' button), you can cancel the
order (the 'Cancel' button) or just leave the page.


Tons of detail are available here:

  http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale/


So a little different perspective that might help you meet your need.

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock, founder
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.




ES10AGB
http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?pageType=c
ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES10AGB
ES34GB
http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?pageType=c
ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES34GB
ES35GB
http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?pageType=c
ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES35GB

He is in the UK but travel would not be a problem. Any suggestions
gratefully received!

Thanks
-Robin

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: 05 November 2013 10:15
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 4 Nov 2013 11:49:17 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:


They said enough -- just because some are doesn't mean there's enough!


Somehow I got into the field with only 1 course in Numerical Analysis and
Programming for Digital Computers (2 semesters) in 1961 and 1 course in
Symbolic Logic.  I was lucky that my company sent me to several IBM course
and from 1977 to 1990 to SHARE.  Should Colleges and Universities be
teaching vendor specific operating systems? Should they be teaching the
basic concepts of operating systems and of security?

Clark Morris



-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

-Original Message-
From: George Rodriguez george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org
Sender:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:58:04
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

That's not 100% true...

Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.

There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc...
and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe
computer systems.

We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs...



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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 12:34:17 +, Ronald Kristel wrote:

On the contrary..., I subscribed to IBM-Main mainly because it actually helped 
me understand a few things on my road of 'learning z/OS'. 

Good for you - it's certainly an education. If you can winnow out the drivel.

Dave also wrote:

: Indeed! It's and old story isn't it? If youngster's don't have easy 
: access to a platform they will not be interested in it. They can install 
: Linux on a cheap PC and hack away to their hearts content.
: IBM really do need to wake up and start providing either emulation or 
: cheap virtual machines to as many universities as they can reach.

Not just the youngsters mate.
I have periods where I am between work. I can't practice (literally) my trade 
- not zPDT, not Dallas, not nuthin.
What a bloody schmozzle.
IBM tipped their hand by screwing Fundamental (those of you with zPDT take a 
close look at what you have) - and PSI.
Linux is a lot more fun for the technically inquisitive these days IMHO.

Shane ...

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Re: How can I write this program to a load library


On 11/4/2013 8:21 PM, Steve Comstock wrote:

On 11/4/2013 7:49 PM, Cameron Seay wrote:

All:

I am a re-newbie to COBOL (learned it years ago but it's very rusty). I am

teaching it to my students because it's a great job skill now. Below is job that
contains the source code inline and runs great. It compiles, links and runs
error free. What I want is the syntax to place the LOAD module into a data set.
I tried what I thought would work, but it didn't. Many thanks!

To do that has nothing to do with COBOL: it's JCL you need to
brush up on. Point LKED.SYSLMOD to a PDS/PDSE that contains
load modules or program objects.




//KC02177B JOB (12345678),'V HAMPTON',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=0M,
// NOTIFY=SYSUID,MSGCLASS=A,CLASS=A
//
//COBOL1  EXEC IGYWCLG,
//  PARM.COBOL='TEST,RENT,APOST,OBJECT,NODYNAM,LIB,SIZE(5048376)'
//COBOL.SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
//COBOL.SYSIN DD *


Lots of very old syntax here.


IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. 
0004
PROGRAM-ID.  PROG1.  
0006
AUTHOR. VICKI HAMPTON.


   Obsolete paragraph, AUTHOR


   *  LAB EXERCISE 1.
0007
ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
0009
CONFIGURATION SECTION.   
0011
INPUT-OUTPUT SECTION.
0017
FILE-CONTROL.
0019
 SELECT INPUT-FILE   ASSIGN TO DA-S-INPUT.   
0021

 just   ASSIGN TO S-INPUT is fine,

  my bad; S-INPUT won't work; AS-INDD would
  work for ESDS

  better would be:
ASSIGN TO INDD
   (the DA-S stuff is ignored, but 'INPUT' itself is a reserved word)



 SELECT PRNT-FILEASSIGN TO UR-S-PRNT.
0024

   just ASSIGN TO PRNT is better



   *   INPUT-FILE IS THE NAME THE PROGRAM WILL USE
   *DA-S-INPUT TELLS JCL TO ASSIGN THE INPUT DATA
   *TO THE FILE NAME INPUT-FILE, SAME FOR PRNT-FILE
   *AND UR-S-PRNT
EJECT

   EJECT and SKIP are only relevant when you print out
   your compiles to hard copy; otherwise pretty meaningless


0025

   *   EJECT DIRECTS THE PRINTER TO START THE NEXT
   *   OUTPUT TO BEGIN AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE


  Well, yes, but the output of the _compile_, not the
  output of the report


DATA DIVISION.   
0026
SKIP3
0027
   *   SKIP 3 INSERTS 3 BLANK LINES


   the current compilers simply accept blank lines



FILE SECTION.
0028
SKIP2
0029
   *SKIP TO INSERTS 2 BLANK LINES
FD  INPUT-FILE   
0030
BLOCK CONTAINS 0 RECORDS 
0031
   *  THIS INFORMS THE SYSTEM THAT NO RECORDS ARE PRESENT
   *  WHEN WE START (WE ARE READING OUR DATA FROM
   *  AN INLINE STREAM


  No, it does not. It tells the operating system to
  choose the block size


LABEL RECORDS ARE STANDARD.  
0032

   ' recording mode is F. ' is more important

   This is unnecessary, since it is the only option
   for disk and the default for tape


01  INPUT-REC PIC X(80). 033
SKIP2
0034
FD  PRNT-FILE
0045
LABEL RECORDS ARE OMITTED.   
0046

   Unnecessary;
   ' recording mode is F. ' is more important


01  PRNT-REC.
0047
03   PIC X(60).
03   PIC X(65).
   *  THIS IS FORMATTING FOR OUR REPORT
SKIP2
0048
EJECT
0049
WORKING-STORAGE SECTION. 
0050
SKIP2
0051
   **
0052
   *   LAYOUT FOR THE INPUT FILE   *0053

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Richard,

Love it, yeah I agree we are an enigma 

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD

'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'


 On Nov 4, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com wrote:
 
 Yeah, but farmers have their own dating site www.farmersonly.com. Never seen 
 one of those for system programmers.
 
 
 
 --- scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com
 To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:26:28 -0800
 
 Skip,
 I totally agree, grew up in Indiana , saw similar situations. I think its a 
 bit generational...if there is such a word. When you have to work hard for 
 what you have, there is a sense of appreciation.
 
 Scott J Ford
 Software Engineer
 http://www.identityforge.com/
  
 
 
 
 On Monday, November 4, 2013 11:40 AM, Skip Robinson 
 jo.skip.robin...@sce.com wrote:
 
 I happen to have some personal knowledge about the shortage of farmers. 
 Two of my uncles owned their own farms in southern Idaho. They didn't grow 
 rich, but they supported their families in very comfortable style. They 
 both had kids including one boy each. None of the kids in either family 
 had any interest in farming. Both boys became engineers. The farms were 
 eventually sold with proceeds going--where else?--to the kids. 
 
 It was not about training. Farmers' kids--especially boys--get saturation 
 training as they grow up. It's about desire. In the words of the esteemed 
 Yogi Berra:
 
 If people don't want to come out to the ballpark, how are you going to 
 stop them?
 
 .
 .
 JO.Skip Robinson
 Southern California Edison Company
 Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
 SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
 626-302-7535 Office
 323-715-0595 Mobile
 jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
 
 
 
 From:   Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com
 To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, 
 Date:   11/04/2013 08:03 AM
 Subject:Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
 Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 
 
 
 On 11/4/2013 8:58 AM, George Rodriguez wrote:
 That's not 100% true...
 
 Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.
 
 There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL,
 etc...
 and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe
 computer systems.
 
 You missed the pun: 'mainfarmers', not 'mainframers'
   ~~~
 
 
 -Steve Comstock
 
 
 
 We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs...
 
 
*George Rodriguez*
 *Specialist II - IT Solutions*
 *IT Enterprise Applications*
 *PX - 47652*
 *(561) 357-7652 (office)*
 *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
 *School District of Palm Beach County*
 *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
 *Room B-251*
 *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
 *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*
 
 
 On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-)
 
 Dave Salt
 
 SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
 
 http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
 
 
 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600
 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za
 Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 
 News for you aging Sysprogs... :-)
 
 It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new
 young
 guys/gals into mainframes.
 
 The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South
 Africa and United States.
 
 Now read up those links before you retire! ;-)
 http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746
 
 
 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391
 
 etc. Happy reading.
 
 Groete / Greetings
 Elardus Engelbrecht
 
 
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 _
 Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
 
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Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security

Elardus,

They had cameras on the Autoroute when I lived in Switzerland ...nobody stole 
things, too many police cars 

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD

'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'


 On Nov 4, 2013, at 2:29 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht 
 elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za wrote:
 
 Jon Perryman wrote:
 
 Germany has solved this by sending you a photo with you in the driver seat 
 and shows the license plate / time  date / your speed. The photo was really 
 good night time photo for the distance. Officer's just set the radar gun at 
 the side of the autobahn and just leave. Here, someone would probably steal 
 it.
 
 If my sources are correct, Germany is using a South African innovation 
 http://www.truvelo.co.za/traffic/index.html 
 
 Here in Sunny South Africa those fixed cameras are mounted high, very high, 
 skyhigh on poles, otherwise they will be stolen/vandalized. ;-D
 
 And if the cops lose those laser or radar guns, they're in trouble of course. 
 Not my problem. ;-)
 
 Groete / Greetings
 Elardus Engelbrecht
 
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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread Robin Atwood

Steve -
Thanks for the pointer. Curiously I have already been contacted by a company
offering courses in the UK, much to my surprise. I thought my colleague
might have to go to India!

But thanks anyway.

-Robin

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: 05 November 2013 21:09
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 11/5/2013 12:51 AM, Robin Atwood wrote:
 Diverting the thread a tad, does anyone know where you can do an HLASM 
 course? My young colleague wants to be inducted into the mysteries of 
 the ancient craft and we found various IBM courses (see below) but 
 none of them are currently being offered. Of course, various outfits 
 are happy to come to your shop and give one-on-one instruction, but HR 
 won't wear the expense of that.


Well, there may be a middle way ...

If you have someone who can mentor your colleague, perhaps you could
purchase our course materials and have him or her take these courses as
mentored self-study.

This allows the student to go at their own pace. And it allows your
organization to use the materials to teach other students later at no
additional charge.

With our going out of business sale in full swing, you can purchase our four
main Assembler courses for USD 2600 (actually, if you buy them all at the
same time the price is just USD 2210).

Of course, the student may need an ISPF course and / or a JCL course at some
time in the process: it's not clear what they already know.

The price is just USD 200 per course day to purchase any of our courses in
the sale; and if you buy ten or more days at one time you get an additional
15% off.

These are complete training kits: lecture version, handout version, setup
notes, instructor notes, data for lab files.


You can use this page as a price calculator:

   http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale/LicenseOrderForm.html

plug in various options and it shows you the price; then instead of placing
an order (the 'Submit' button), you can cancel the order (the 'Cancel'
button) or just leave the page.


Tons of detail are available here:

   http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale/


So a little different perspective that might help you meet your need.

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock, founder
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.



 ES10AGB
 http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?page
 Type=c
 ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES10AGB
 ES34GB
 http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?page
 Type=c
 ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES34GB
 ES35GB
 http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?page
 Type=c
 ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES35GB

 He is in the UK but travel would not be a problem. Any suggestions 
 gratefully received!

 Thanks
 -Robin

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
 On Behalf Of Clark Morris
 Sent: 05 November 2013 10:15
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

 On 4 Nov 2013 11:49:17 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

 They said enough -- just because some are doesn't mean there's
enough!

 Somehow I got into the field with only 1 course in Numerical Analysis 
 and Programming for Digital Computers (2 semesters) in 1961 and 1 
 course in Symbolic Logic.  I was lucky that my company sent me to 
 several IBM course and from 1977 to 1990 to SHARE.  Should Colleges 
 and Universities be teaching vendor specific operating systems? Should 
 they be teaching the basic concepts of operating systems and of security?

 Clark Morris


 -
 Ted MacNEIL
 eamacn...@yahoo.ca
 Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

 -Original Message-
 From: George Rodriguez george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org
 Sender:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:58:04
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

 That's not 100% true...

 Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.

 There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL,
etc...
 and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe 
 computer systems.

 We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs...


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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 07:16:52 -0600, Shane Ginnane wrote:

Linux is a lot more fun for the technically inquisitive these days IMHO.
 
It's far less encrusted with the patina of antiquity.  Much of OS/360
made sense in the resource-constrained batch environment in which
it originated.  Nowadays, its residue is a requirement for compatibility;
an enormous burden for novices.

My favorite example is copying a data set with IEBGENER: an EXEC
statement plus four DD statements each having several parameters,
versus a single cp command with two parameters in Linux.  A
single LMCOPY command?  Well, yes, but how much setup?

-- gil

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Re: How can I write this program to a load library

2013-11-05 Thread Mike Myers


Cameron:

I can't help you with your COBOL (not one of my languages), but what you 
need is some JCL help. Retired Mainframer set you on the the right 
direction by saying you should look for another procedure. As he said, 
language (assembler and compiler) procedures usually come in three 
forms: xxxC (compile only), xxxCL (compile and link/load) and xxxCLG 
(compile, load and go). You used IGYWCLG . There is an IGYWCL procedure 
on the Marist system, which you can use to to do what you want.


One thing you will have to do is find or set up a load library where you 
can link the load module you are creating. You can model the load 
library after the SYSLMOD DD statement in the LKED step in the 
procedure. SYSLMOD is where the LINK step puts the load module it 
creates. So you want to override this statement, creating a permanent 
library of your own or using a library of your own that already exists. 
If you don't have such a library already, I'd suggest:


//LKED.SYSLMOD DD DSN=KC02117.MY.LOADLIB,DISP=(,CATLG),UNIT=SYSALLDA,
//SPACE=(CYL,(1,1,5)),DSNTYPE=LIBRARY MAKE THIS A PDS/E

This needs to go after the end of your COBOL source code in order for it 
to be seen as being a part of the LKED step (hence LKED.SYSLMOD).


Creating the library as above does not name the member program, so you 
need to tell the link step what you want to call it. In the LKED step 
you will also see the //SYSLIN DD statement which concatenates the 
output of the COBOL compiler with an optional set of control statements 
for the link step. These statements, if supplied, would follow a //SYSIN 
DD statement, if supplied, so you want one after the SYSLMOD statement 
above. It should look like:


//LKED.SYSIN DD *
 NAME PROG1(R)  - this supplies the member name for your program 
and can be anything, but it will have to match what you put on the EXEC 
statement for your GO step, which you will need to create and is 
described below.  The (R) option causes the program to be replaced if 
you have to run the job again.


Last, you have to create a replacement for the GO step which is not a 
part of the procedure you had used. BTW, the //GO.ddname items as 
defined in your existing JCL will result in JCL errors, so you have to 
change all //GO.ddname DD statements to //ddname DD statements (remove 
the GO. part).


I would recommend you model your new GO step after the JCL in the 
IGYWCLG procedure. Keep the EXEC statement, but change it to EXEC 
PGM=PROG1 (or whatever you choose to use in the NAME statement for the 
LINK step).


You should keep the //STEPLIB DD statement in the CLG procedure, but you 
will want to concatenate your load library created above to  it, so 
follow up the existing STEPLIB DD statement with:


//  DD DSN=KC02117.MY.LOADLIB,DISP=SHR   - make sure 
this matches the name in the SYSLMOD statement above


Now follow up the STEPLIB concatenation with the remainder of your JCL 
originally intended for your GO step, but remember to remove the GO. 
parts of these DD names.


This should do it for you. There are other ways you could handle this, 
but I thought this was the easient fo explain and hope it will beef up 
your understanding of JCL. Good luck.


Mike Myers
Mentor Services Corporation


On 11/04/2013 09:49 PM, Cameron Seay wrote:

All:

I am a re-newbie to COBOL (learned it years ago but it's very rusty). I am 
teaching it to my students because it's a great job skill now.  Below is job 
that contains the source code inline and runs great.  It compiles, links and 
runs error free.  What I want is the syntax to place the LOAD module into a 
data set.  I tried what I thought would work, but it didn't.  Many thanks!

//KC02177B JOB (12345678),'V HAMPTON',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=0M,
// NOTIFY=SYSUID,MSGCLASS=A,CLASS=A
//
//COBOL1  EXEC IGYWCLG,
//  PARM.COBOL='TEST,RENT,APOST,OBJECT,NODYNAM,LIB,SIZE(5048376)'
//COBOL.SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
//COBOL.SYSIN DD *
IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. 
0004
PROGRAM-ID.  PROG1.  
0006
AUTHOR. VICKI HAMPTON.
   *  LAB EXERCISE 1.
0007
ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
0009
CONFIGURATION SECTION.   
0011
INPUT-OUTPUT SECTION.
0017
FILE-CONTROL.
0019
 SELECT INPUT-FILE   ASSIGN TO DA-S-INPUT.   
0021
 SELECT PRNT-FILEASSIGN TO UR-S-PRNT.
0024
   *   INPUT-FILE IS THE NAME THE PROGRAM WILL USE
   *DA-S-INPUT TELLS JCL TO ASSIGN THE INPUT DATA
   *TO THE FILE NAME INPUT-FILE, SAME FOR PRNT-FILE
   *AND UR-S-PRNT
EJECT

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread Dana Mitchell

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 08:13:14 -0600, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:

It's far less encrusted with the patina of antiquity.  Much of OS/360
made sense in the resource-constrained batch environment in which
it originated.  Nowadays, its residue is a requirement for compatibility;
an enormous burden for novices.

-- gil


+1 gil!   exactly!

I've long thought that z/OS needed a good dose of modernization and overhaul to 
come kicking and screaming onto the hardware of the 21st century  Does 
anyone use FLPA any more?


On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 20:32:38 +0800, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote:

Indeed! It's and old story isn't it? If youngster's don't have easy
access to a platform they will not be interested in it. They can install
Linux on a cheap PC and hack away to their hearts content.
IBM really do need to wake up and start providing either emulation or
cheap virtual machines to as many universities as they can reach.


This is the exact same  problem facing the IBM i community,  no cheap/free 
option for experimentation and exploration.  IBM should make available a free 
download of IBM z/OS emlated to run on a PC just for this purpose.  On second 
thought, that would highlight all the 'encrusted patina of antiquity' and 
probably send the 20-somethings running for the hills!

Dana 

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Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-05 Thread Kirk Wolf

Janet,

Take a look at the archives for this list, specifically the thread:

openssl make - z/OS UNIX question - Help

from April 2012.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Janet Graff janet.gr...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I am attempting to build openssl on the mainframe.  Can I set up my
 ./Configure OS390 line to generate a listing file for every module compiled?



 I need something like this

 OS/390,c99:-O -Wc,ascii -Wc,LIST(fname.LIST) -DB_ENDIAN
 -DNO_SYS_PARAM_H -D_ALL_SOURCE -DASCII -D_XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED=1
 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_POSIX_SOURCE -D_OPEN_THREADS=2
 -DOPENSSL_EXPORT_VAR_AS_FUNCTION::-DPTHREAD:::THIRTY_TWO_BIT DES_PTR
 DES_UNROLL MD2_CHAR RC4_INDEX RC4_CHAR BF_PTR:::,

 where the fname on the LIST option is whatever the name of the currently
 compiling module is.

 Is this not the way to do this?  Is there a better way?

 Janet Graff

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread John Gilmore

My own experience is that teenagers, preternaturally  bright ones
admittedly, can learn to cope with what I shall limit myself to
calling the patina of antiquity.  (The phrase encrusted patina of
antiquity is euphonious; but encrustations obscure, very shortly
indeed destroy patinæ.)

What I miss in these discussions, or would miss if they were serious,
is any consideration of the strengths of z/OS.  For example, no Linux
or Unix that I am familiar with does record i/o at all well; and even
their stream i/o, which they certainly do better,  is much inferior to
the asynchronous stream i/o of z/OS PL/I.

Or again, z/OS is decimal orders of magnitude more reliable,
available, and secure than either Linux or Unix.

I do of course agree that z/OS is perceived to be boring, but that is
another question.

---jg

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Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-05 Thread Janet Graff

Kirk,

Yes!  That excellent thread is what enabled me to get as far as I did and 
produce my needed libcrypto.a library.

I've been through that thread multiple times in the last three weeks but I 
don't recall a discussion of changing the ./Configure settings to produce 
listing files for every source code module compiled during the make phase.

Do you know that there is a reference to listing files in that thread (in which 
case I will go back through the thread again line by line) or was that a 
reference to general topic equivalence?

Thanks!
Janet

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Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-05 Thread Janet Graff

Mike,

This particular usage of openssl is specifically for the bignum support.  
AT-TLS is for the SSL support which we aren't using.  Do you know of a bignum 
replacement for openssl for z/OS?

Janet

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Re: Serialization without Enque

Sorry for the confusion but that's not the question that I was asking. I agree 
with you on guaranteeing the consistency using the count.

I'm talking about TCB1 using PLO CSDST to store 2 adjacent words (4th  6th PLO 
operands) and TCB2 using LM or LG for those same 2 words. There is a very small 
window between the 2 store's where TCB2 will pick up inconsistent inconsistent 
values. In other words, the first store has completed and the LM/LG occurs 
before the second store completes. This window is extremely small because PLO 
cannot be interrupted and the instruction was prepared before performing the 
stores. 

I think the window is so small that even under heavy usage, you would only see 
an error every couple of months but it does exist. I think TCB2 must also use 
the PLO compare and load to avoid this situation.

Thanks for the great information, Jon Perryman.

From: Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com


The order of stores is unpredictable except that  according to the POM,
operand 2 (in this case, the count) is always stored last. 


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Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security

2013-11-05 Thread Ze'ev Atlas

What's the story about the name Kumuondanam Bimba?
ZA

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Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security

2013-11-05 Thread R.S.

W dniu 2013-11-05 18:17, Ze'ev Atlas pisze:

What's the story about the name Kumuondanam Bimba?
ZA
Just an example of foreign name. It could be Ze'ev Atlas as well (no
offence intended).

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Lodz, Poland

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread Ze'ev Atlas

Robin Atwood said:
Diverting the thread a tad, does anyone know where you can do an HLASM
course? My young colleague wants to be inducted into the mysteries of the
ancient craft and we found various IBM courses (see below) but none of them
are currently being offered. Of course, various outfits are happy to come to
your shop and give one-on-one instruction, but HR won't wear the expense of
that.

Don't misunderstand me, I do feel your pain, but let's examine some (tongue in 
cheek) alternatives :)

1. Print the Principles of Operation and the various current books about HLASM 
and let the poor soul read them!
[I broke my teeth on the 360 POO and the 370 POO and even though English is not 
my native language, I had a pretty good command on what was said there.  Years 
later IBM enhanced the books (i.e. farmed them out to 'professionals') so when 
it got to the ESA POO I began to look at the (then) new commands and the only 
thing I could've said was that the explanation was written in some dialect of 
English.]

2. Adopt the methodology of the Unix, Linux and Windows echosystems, abandon 
any assembly whatsoever, license C and write all code in that language.  Some 
of the new guys (those that did not have Java as the only language) know that 
language from their collge days.  That requires management to shell the money 
for C compiler (nobody on the mainframe needs that stuff!,) but that might be 
cheaper then the HR shelling money for training.  If many places do that, then 
maybe we'd get a descent port of GCC after all.

3. If you go for alternative #2, then, I am ready to come to your site, take 
inventory and convert all Assembly code into either C or Cobol (I assume that 
if you have difficulties getting Assemler guys, PL/I [and PL/X] is next :(


BTW, I listened to  Larry Wall (of Perl fame) talking about the most important 
current languages.  He discussed Java as the COBOL of the twenty first century, 
verbose... good point

ZA

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

 On 11/5/2013 at 12:54 PM, Ze'ev Atlas zatl...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 Adopt the methodology of the Unix, Linux and Windows echosystems, abandon any 
 assembly whatsoever, license C and write all code in that language.

Not quite.  Performance critical sections are sometimes still written in 
hand-crafted assembler, particularly in the Linux kernel.  If it weren't for 
that, I would just as soon see the ability to embed assembler in C source code 
be removed from GCC.  Putting assembler code in applications makes them a real 
pain to port to different operating systems and architectures, and so in 
general not cool.


Mark Post

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Define user to Z/OS LDAP Server

2013-11-05 Thread Mohamed Juma

Hi list,

It is my first experience with LDAP, trying to add a user to TDBM database 
using DB2 V8.

my Configuration file of LDAP:
database TDBM GLDBTD31 
suffix o=moi 


  Adding user using  Nasser.add: 
Nasser.add:
dn: cn=nasser shaer,ou=users,dc=moi,dc=com  
objectclass: person 
sn: nasser  
userpassword: password  
 
 ldapadd -h 127.0.0.1 -p 3389 -D cn=root -w secret -f  nasser.add
 
 Error: adding new entry cn=nasser shaer,ou=users,dc=moi,dc=com 
    
ldap_add: Undefined attribute type  
ldap_add: additional info: R001012 Attribute type 'sn' is not defined (normalize
_attr_value_list)  
 
 Adding user using Nasser2.add file:
  
 File nasser2.add
 dn: cn=nasser,ou=users,dc=moi,dc=com  
objectclass: person   
userpassword: password 
 
 ldapadd -h 127.0.0.1 -p 3389 -D cn=root -w secret -f  nasser2.add  
 
error: adding new entry cn=nasser,ou=users,dc=moi,dc=com
   
ldap_add: No such object    
ldap_add: additional info: R010015 No backend for DN 'CN=NASSER,OU=USERS,DC=MOI,
DC=COM' (process_backend_request)  
 
 Any help appreciated. 
king regards 
 
Mohamed Juma 


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Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-05 Thread Lloyd Fuller

Janet,
 
When I have some options that are not part of the normal, I specify a different 
shell script for compiling (like xlc64.sh for example), and specify that as the 
compiler in ./configure or make or whatever.  Then that shell script calls 
the compiler once it has set up things like I want.
 
This allows me to test new options without breaking existing things:  just 
comment the real compiler name and specify the new one.  Then to reverse 
things, uncomment the real compiler and comment the new one.
 
Lloyd



 From: Janet Graff janet.gr...@yahoo.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files
  

Kirk,

Yes!  That excellent thread is what enabled me to get as far as I did and 
produce my needed libcrypto.a library.

I've been through that thread multiple times in the last three weeks but I 
don't recall a discussion of changing the ./Configure settings to produce 
listing files for every source code module compiled during the make phase.

Do you know that there is a reference to listing files in that thread (in 
which case I will go back through the thread again line by line) or was that a 
reference to general topic equivalence?

Thanks!
Janet

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Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-05 Thread Janet Graff

The -Wc,LIST(filename) option would work fine to indicate that I want a 
listing file.  But without a file name it defaults to STDOUT.  The specific 
filename doesn't adjust for different source code files.  Is there a 
replacement variable for ./Configure that says use the source code file name 
so that I can add something like -Wc,LIST(${source}) to my options and get a 
seperate listing file for each source file?

Janet

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Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security

2013-11-05 Thread John Gilmore

Poles must be conceded a great deal of retaliatory freedom in the
matter of inventing 'foreign' names.

A parenthesis-free notation devised by Jan Łukasiewicz---It is
presented in a footnote in his classic little English-language book on
the relationships between Aristotelian and modern logics---is called
Polish notation in English because anglophones are judged to be too
language-challenged to pronounce Łukasiewicz.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-05 Thread Kirk Wolf

I don't see anything like that in the Makefile.

I'm far from an export on make, and the OpenSSL Makefile is pretty nasty.
My best guess is that you need to define your own inference rule something
like:

%.o : %.c
   $(CC) -c $(CCFLAGS) -Wc,LIST $ $*.list



Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Janet Graff janet.gr...@yahoo.com wrote:

 The -Wc,LIST(filename) option would work fine to indicate that I want a
 listing file.  But without a file name it defaults to STDOUT.  The specific
 filename doesn't adjust for different source code files.  Is there a
 replacement variable for ./Configure that says use the source code file
 name so that I can add something like -Wc,LIST(${source}) to my options
 and get a seperate listing file for each source file?

 Janet

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z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

We know Gilmartin considers UNIX elegant so he is a lost cause but it's sad 
that he's bringing others to the dark side. He often gives UNIX examples that 
he feels are at the forefront of technology when in reality there are z/OS 
solutions that work as well or even better. Case in point is the CP  command to 
merge files. A simple exec to alloc the files and merge them can easily be 
created. How often do you merge files?  If anyone considered this a 
requirement, they would have created the solution in less than a minute.  So a 
newbie knows intuitively that CP is copy and help is -?.

z/OS certainly has it's problems and we are willing to admit it. z/OS may have 
a petina but UNIX / Linux has been rusting over time and some don't even 
recognize those problems. E.g. The CLOUD came into existence because UNIX was 
not able to solve basic problems so it came up with a way hide them. Instead of 
solving major limitations, it simply redefines them as non-problems. I am 
actually an advocate for both operating systems but I realize they both have 
their limitations. As for showing that z/OS is not as bad as some would make it 
out, here are some of the issues the cloud has addressed but not truly resolved:

1. Disk full: 
* Cloud: Some disk manufacturers have implementations that work well but they 
exist more as NFS than as a local filesystem and they are still not in heavy 
use. Other implementations simply use Unix filesystems but they require more 
disk space than is needed.
  
* UNIX: Applications often do bizarre things with disk full. Admin's usually 
find out there is a problem from user reporting the problem. Adding a disk 
immediately won't solve the problem because the file system must be copied. 
Adding a mountpoint doesn't help. Admin must search / delete files to free 
space. Increasing the file system size requires the sceduling of down time 
(it's not just adding space). 

* z/OS: Applications will die but we can have automation to add disks to a 
storage group in a  matter of seconds. We can easily steal disks from our test 
systems in an emergency where we don't have sufficient extra's.  We have HSM to 
migrate seldom used files to tape. Admins can change the migration interval.

2. CPU busy.
* Cloud: There are a few implementations to spread workload (e.g. SOA). They 
all are the same basic principle but with different standards. They all 
basically send a request and wait for a response. It still exists within the 
restrictions of UNIX.

* UNIX: Can't dynamically add a cpu without reboot. Loosely coupled. Can't 
offload workload without purpose built applications (E.g. Peoplesoft and SAP). 

* z/OS: We have WLM to prioritize workload. CPU's can be dynamically added (IBM 
often has spares in the box that can be quickly purchased). Our systems are 
tightly coupled thru sysplex. IMS, CICS, TSO and batch can easily be spread on 
any / all systems within the sysplex.

3. Networking:
* Cloud: Same as UNIX.

* UNIX: TCP/IP was not publicly available until the 70's. Prior to that, simple 
communications were available.

 * z/OS: SNA existed long before TCP/IP was available. SNA was a robust, 
reliable and secure communications methodology. Once TCP was became available, 
we had the same situation as Betamax versus VHS. TCP won.


4. Data recovery:
* Cloud: Cross your fingers and hope that your cloud provider is taking 
sufficient precautions.

* UNIX: Backup and recovery utilities exist but an admin is often required to 
perform recovery. In addition, recovery is often an interactive process (start 
request / mount tape then repeat).

* z/OS: HSM, DSM, FDR and other products exist. HSM allows user's to issue 
multiple HRECOVER commands which are queued to the server and you wait for 
notification of completion. It's been too long for me to remember the other 
products but I suspect they work as well.

I could list more if necessary but that would be a waste of time. z/OS 
improvements often go unnoticed. They are often embedded and transparent to 
most users of the system. Granted that IBM does detrimental actions that 
overshadow the advantages of z/OS. I too think their user base would increase 
if they weren't so restrictive. This dinosaur hasn't died yet and probably 
won't in the near future.

Jon Perryman. 



 From: Dana Mitchell mitchd...@gmail.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
 

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 08:13:14 -0600, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:

It's far less encrusted with the patina of antiquity.  Much of OS/360
made sense in the resource-constrained batch environment in which
it originated.  Nowadays, its residue is a requirement for compatibility;
an enormous burden for novices.

-- gil


+1 gil!   exactly!

I've long thought that z/OS needed a good dose of modernization and overhaul 
to come kicking and screaming onto the hardware of the 21st century

Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security

2013-11-05 Thread Mike Schwab

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnlRurTwFg
UK Speed camera vandalism.

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Elardus,

 They had cameras on the Autoroute when I lived in Switzerland ...nobody stole 
 things, too many police cars

 Scott ford
 www.identityforge.com
 from my IPAD

 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'


 On Nov 4, 2013, at 2:29 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht 
 elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za wrote:

 Jon Perryman wrote:

 Germany has solved this by sending you a photo with you in the driver seat 
 and shows the license plate / time  date / your speed. The photo was 
 really good night time photo for the distance. Officer's just set the radar 
 gun at the side of the autobahn and just leave. Here, someone would 
 probably steal it.

 If my sources are correct, Germany is using a South African innovation 
 http://www.truvelo.co.za/traffic/index.html

 Here in Sunny South Africa those fixed cameras are mounted high, very high, 
 skyhigh on poles, otherwise they will be stolen/vandalized. ;-D

 And if the cops lose those laser or radar guns, they're in trouble of 
 course. Not my problem. ;-)

 Groete / Greetings
 Elardus Engelbrecht

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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-05 Thread Bob Rutledge


Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

PMFJI here Ed, but PSPI and DMTI aren't acronyms that I recognize.  
Translations please?

Peter


Product-Sensitive Programming Interface (The underlying software can change and 
this interface can change or disappear.)


Diagnosis, Modification and Tuning Information (Look, but don't touch.)

Bob

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht

Jon Perryman wrote:

[ ... lots of interesting comparisions between z/OS and UNIX / Linux ... ] 

Lets see, you wrote about disk management, Apps, CPU, Networking, Recovery, 
WLM, etc. Cool comparisions. Now I know. Thanks! ;-D

Could you be kind to list the differences between these systems on Security? 
z/OS has RACF (or other ESM). What do you use in UNIX / Linux / other world for 
security? Audit trails? Product management? Intrusion detection? etc?

* UNIX: Backup and recovery utilities exist but an admin is often required to 
perform recovery. In addition, recovery is often an interactive process (start 
request / mount tape then repeat).

What if the person responsible for this manual work has gone home to sleep? 

z/OS improvements often go unnoticed. 

Indeed. Now and then a thread appears in IBM-MAIN about something which was 
actually implemented/announced years ago without the OP knowing it or just 
discovered it 'yesterday'. Example thread: BPX.DEFAULT.USER.

This dinosaur hasn't died yet and probably won't in the near future.

Around 1990 and so when death of mainframe has been predicted [1], someone said 
to me: The technology to completely replace big iron has not been in place 
properly. Now, it is still, to my astonishment, somewhat true! Rather, new 
things evolved in the meantime.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

[1] - I don't take any predictions seriously at all. I got tired/bored about 
those 'predictions' at every end of decades that the world will end or 
something like that.

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Re: Serialization without Enque

2013-11-05 Thread Kenneth Wilkerson

This is a complicated question that is very dependent on the design of your
application. So if the design needs to use a PLO Compare and Load, by all
means do so. I try to design these applications to avoid as many PLO Compare
and Loads as possible. The memory serialization (once at the start and once
at the end) are expensive but much less so than software locks. This means
that I design the update operations so that loading the pointers during a
PLO operation will; at worse, simply result in outdated information. As I
explained in my first example, this is possible regardless of whether you
use PLO or a lock. It's just a consequence of concurrent activity and the
order in which these activities occur. 

In reality, I don't normally use PLO Compare and Swap and store (any flavor)
for chains. They work fine for singly linked lists.  Usually I use it (just
wrote something today) to dynamically add an entry to a pre-allocated slot
in a cell. In this case, the cell has pre-allocated slots with a high water
mark pointer and a count, consecutive words in a double word. In this case,
the high water mark and count are the 2nd operand and the lock word. Since
the  2nd operand always updates last, any references would not even know of
the new addition until the PLO completes. 

I fall back to my original provision. The use of PLO is heavily dependent on
designing the application to use PLO. Just yesterday, I debugged a problem
in a task that was not doing a PLO Compare and Load to get a count.
Certainly, all references to the counts in a Compare and Swap Store should
all be updated with a PLO and probably require a PLO Compare and Load. 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Jon Perryman
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque

Sorry for the confusion but that's not the question that I was asking. I
agree with you on guaranteeing the consistency using the count.

I'm talking about TCB1 using PLO CSDST to store 2 adjacent words (4th  6th
PLO operands) and TCB2 using LM or LG for those same 2 words. There is a
very small window between the 2 store's where TCB2 will pick up inconsistent
inconsistent values. In other words, the first store has completed and the
LM/LG occurs before the second store completes. This window is extremely
small because PLO cannot be interrupted and the instruction was prepared
before performing the stores. 

I think the window is so small that even under heavy usage, you would only
see an error every couple of months but it does exist. I think TCB2 must
also use the PLO compare and load to avoid this situation.

Thanks for the great information, Jon Perryman.

From: Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com


The order of stores is unpredictable except that  according to the POM, 
operand 2 (in this case, the count) is always stored last.


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STP Setup question for IBM 2818 processsor

2013-11-05 Thread Cifani, Domenic

HI ;
Wondering if anyone can tell me when I try to setup STP on the HMC and I am 
doing the Network Configuration Setup. I enter Preferred time server and check 
of the only allow the server specificied above to be in the CTN. Would I have 
to select the initialize time and if so what will this task do. Any insight is 
appreciated.
Also what would the force configuration da as well.

Thanks Ben


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Re: AW: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1

2013-11-05 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

In
vmime.52775d37.1c6.c642028117b26...@dms02.intranet.set-software.de,
on 11/04/2013
   at 09:39 AM, Michael Knigge michael.kni...@set-software.de said:

THE might be a good tool for everyone who needs/likes an 
?XEDIT-Clone, but it is a bad choice for everyone who looks for an 
ISPF-like editor.

Sure, and a hammer is a poor choice for everyone who looks for a
screwdriver.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-05 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

In 2048766999.1432321.1383584199930.javamail.r...@comcast.net, on
11/04/2013
   at 04:56 PM, DASDBILL2 dasdbi...@comcast.net said:

SRBs can do I/O.  They can't do SVC instructions, however.  You 
can start an I/O request without an SVC if you use the STARTIO 
macro, which requires your code's being authorized.  You can know 
when the I/O is complete by testing an ECB's 

ECB? We don't need no stinking ECB. Were you thinking of EXCP[VR},
which does use an ECB?
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-05 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

In 8610219510148556.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on
11/04/2013
   at 06:00 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:

Is it GUPI?

No, but STARTIO is also not bare metal.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-05 Thread DASDBILL2

No.  I was thinking that if one wanted to one could design an unnecessary ECB 
into the communication path somewhere just so one would feel at home with the 
ancient access method artifacts.  Having an ECB does not require than any code 
ever WAIT on it, of course.  It's just another place to have a flag bit that 
means I/O is finished. 
  
Bill Fairchild 
Franklin, TN 

- Original Message -

From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 9:39:34 AM 
Subject: Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation 

In 2048766999.1432321.1383584199930.javamail.r...@comcast.net, on 
11/04/2013 
   at 04:56 PM, DASDBILL2 dasdbi...@comcast.net said: 

SRBs can do I/O.  They can't do SVC instructions, however.  You 
can start an I/O request without an SVC if you use the STARTIO 
macro, which requires your code's being authorized.  You can know 
when the I/O is complete by testing an ECB's 

ECB? We don't need no stinking ECB. Were you thinking of EXCP[VR}, 
which does use an ECB? 
  
-- 
     Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT 
     ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. 
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) 

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Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-05 Thread DASDBILL2

In the z/OS world, bare metal means SSCH and TSCH.  These are not for the 
faint-hearted, or even the heavy-duty. 
Bill Fairchild 
Franklin, TN 

- Original Message -

From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:04:01 PM 
Subject: Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation 

In 8610219510148556.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on 
11/04/2013 
   at 06:00 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: 

Is it GUPI? 

No, but STARTIO is also not bare metal. 
  
-- 
     Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT 
     ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. 
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) 

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Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-05 Thread Tony Harminc

FWIW, the UNIX services for file I/O are callable in SRB mode. But if
you are in SRB mode you own the world in any case.

Tony H.

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

 On 11/5/2013 at 02:49 PM, Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: 
-snip-
 As for showing that z/OS is not as bad as some would make 
 it out, here are some of the issues the cloud has addressed but not truly 
 resolved:
 
 1. Disk full: 
 * Cloud: Some disk manufacturers have implementations that work well but 
 they exist more as NFS than as a local filesystem and they are still not in 
 heavy use. Other implementations simply use Unix filesystems but they require 
 more disk space than is needed.

I have no idea what you're talking about here, and my company has a product 
that lets you create your own private cloud infrastructure.

 * UNIX: Applications often do bizarre things with disk full. Admin's usually 
 find out there is a problem from user reporting the problem. Adding a disk 
 immediately won't solve the problem because the file system must be copied. 

Wrong.  Logical Volume Manager solved that well over 10 years ago.

 Adding a mountpoint doesn't help. Admin must search / delete files to free 
 space. Increasing the file system size requires the sceduling of down time 
 (it's not just adding space). 

Wrong.  File systems have been able to be resized online for well over 10 years 
now.  Some will even let you shrink them while they're online.

 * z/OS: Applications will die but we can have automation to add disks to a 
 storage group in a  matter of seconds. We can easily steal disks from our 
 test systems in an emergency where we don't have sufficient extra's.

This is no different in the distributed world.  It all depends on how friendly 
you are with the storage administrators.

 We have 
 HSM to migrate seldom used files to tape. Admins can change the migration 
 interval.

There are products that will do this, but I wish they had more capabilities.  
HSM is one of the (very) few things I miss about z/OS.

 2. CPU busy.
 * Cloud: There are a few implementations to spread workload (e.g. SOA). They 
 all are the same basic principle but with different standards. They all 
 basically send a request and wait for a response. It still exists within the 
 restrictions of UNIX.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about here.

 * UNIX: Can't dynamically add a cpu without reboot. Loosely coupled. Can't 
 offload workload without purpose built applications (E.g. Peoplesoft and 
 SAP). 

Wrong.  CPU hotplug and removal has been around quite a long time.

 * z/OS: We have WLM to prioritize workload. CPU's can be dynamically added 
 (IBM often has spares in the box that can be quickly purchased). Our systems 
 are tightly coupled thru sysplex. IMS, CICS, TSO and batch can easily be 
 spread on any / all systems within the sysplex.

Sorry, but I don't see sysplex as being tightly coupled.  At least that's not 
the definition I learned 30 years ago.  In many ways, sysplex is the z/OS 
implementation of High Availability.  Being a specialized implementation, it 
could do some nice magic with coupling facilities and so on.  It's also 
extremely expensive, as we've all come to expect from the industries pricing 
models for the mainframe.

Linux has similar prioritizing capabilities, but without a lot of the undue 
complications that WLM introduces (even if you're just talking about the 
blasted terminology).

 3. Networking:
 * Cloud: Same as UNIX.

Again, what?

 * UNIX: TCP/IP was not publicly available until the 70's. Prior to that, 
 simple communications were available.

We're not living in the late 60's any more, so I don't see how this is relevant 
to today.

  * z/OS: SNA existed long before TCP/IP was available. SNA was a robust, 
 reliable and secure communications methodology. Once TCP was became 
 available, we had the same situation as Betamax versus VHS. TCP won.

And for good reason.  The industry has always swung back and forth between 
proprietary standards and open standards.  As time has gone on, the realization 
has been that using technologies that implement open standards reduces costs 
and vendor lock-in while increasing flexibility.  SNA had its advantages, it 
was a real pain to manage and modify network designs.  I don't miss it in the 
least.

 4. Data recovery:
 * Cloud: Cross your fingers and hope that your cloud provider is taking 
 sufficient precautions.

Or run your own private cloud.  It's not that hard, and it's certainly cheaper 
than using a public cloud.

 * UNIX: Backup and recovery utilities exist but an admin is often required 
 to perform recovery. In addition, recovery is often an interactive process 
 (start request / mount tape then repeat).

Can't say I've seen these limitations in the systems I've worked with.  You may 
not get what you pay for, but you almost certainly don't get what you won't pay 
for.  Distributed systems can use automated tape libraries, real or virtual.

Now if you want to point a finger at some things in Linux that really, really 
could use improvement, let's talk about diagnostic instrumentation in the 
operating system, as

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread Pommier, Rex

Jon,

First a caveat:  I'm a z/OS bigot from the get-go.  I much prefer z/OS to *nix 
but I supported both HP-UX and AIX at a previous position alongside my z/OS 
work.  I have no experience with Sun's flavor and precious little with Linux so 
I can't comment on them.  I need to take a couple exceptions to your comments.  

1.  Disk full - HP-UX with online JFS gave me the ability to dynamically add 
disk to volume groups and filesystems dynamically back around the 2001 
timeframe.  Yes, online JFS was a separately priced option, but the ability 
was/is there.  Same with AIX (AFAIK built in, no add-ons), I was dynamically 
adding disk to filesystems.  I will concede that applications often did funky 
things when a filesystem got full, but the problem could be fixed without an 
outage.  

2.  CPU busy - The HP boxes I was working with had hard partitions.  I had to 
shut down partitions to move CPUs form one to another (in chunks of 4 CPUs and 
their associated memory).  IBM p-series on the other hand, where I was running 
machines with multiple LPARs and if the hardware was configured correctly (with 
ranges of memory and CPUs defined to the LPARs) I could dynamically add/remove 
CPUs and memory from the LPARs without any kind of outage.  If I had to take 
memory away from an LPAR to give to another one, the LPAR losing the memory 
would page migrate it's data to other memory or out to disk and tell me when it 
was done so I could go add it to the other LPAR.  

That being said, I still maintain that it is no accident that Unix and LSD were 
both developed at the same university at the same time (probably by the same 
people...just kidding on this last part.)

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jon Perryman
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 1:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

We know Gilmartin considers UNIX elegant so he is a lost cause but it's sad 
that he's bringing others to the dark side. He often gives UNIX examples that 
he feels are at the forefront of technology when in reality there are z/OS 
solutions that work as well or even better. Case in point is the CP  command to 
merge files. A simple exec to alloc the files and merge them can easily be 
created. How often do you merge files?  If anyone considered this a 
requirement, they would have created the solution in less than a minute.  So a 
newbie knows intuitively that CP is copy and help is -?.

z/OS certainly has it's problems and we are willing to admit it. z/OS may have 
a petina but UNIX / Linux has been rusting over time and some don't even 
recognize those problems. E.g. The CLOUD came into existence because UNIX was 
not able to solve basic problems so it came up with a way hide them. Instead of 
solving major limitations, it simply redefines them as non-problems. I am 
actually an advocate for both operating systems but I realize they both have 
their limitations. As for showing that z/OS is not as bad as some would make it 
out, here are some of the issues the cloud has addressed but not truly resolved:

1. Disk full: 
* Cloud: Some disk manufacturers have implementations that work well but they 
exist more as NFS than as a local filesystem and they are still not in heavy 
use. Other implementations simply use Unix filesystems but they require more 
disk space than is needed.
  
* UNIX: Applications often do bizarre things with disk full. Admin's usually 
find out there is a problem from user reporting the problem. Adding a disk 
immediately won't solve the problem because the file system must be copied. 
Adding a mountpoint doesn't help. Admin must search / delete files to free 
space. Increasing the file system size requires the sceduling of down time 
(it's not just adding space). 

* z/OS: Applications will die but we can have automation to add disks to a 
storage group in a  matter of seconds. We can easily steal disks from our test 
systems in an emergency where we don't have sufficient extra's.  We have HSM to 
migrate seldom used files to tape. Admins can change the migration interval.

2. CPU busy.
* Cloud: There are a few implementations to spread workload (e.g. SOA). They 
all are the same basic principle but with different standards. They all 
basically send a request and wait for a response. It still exists within the 
restrictions of UNIX.

* UNIX: Can't dynamically add a cpu without reboot. Loosely coupled. Can't 
offload workload without purpose built applications (E.g. Peoplesoft and SAP). 

* z/OS: We have WLM to prioritize workload. CPU's can be dynamically added (IBM 
often has spares in the box that can be quickly purchased). Our systems are 
tightly coupled thru sysplex. IMS, CICS, TSO and batch can easily be spread on 
any / all systems within the sysplex.

3. Networking:
* Cloud: Same as UNIX.

* UNIX: TCP/IP was not publicly available until the 70's. Prior to that,

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Bill,

I agree my gf is at a university. Young ppl for whatever reason lack critical 
thinking skills, not all of the youngsters, some

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD

'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'


 On Nov 5, 2013, at 6:33 AM, DASDBILL2 dasdbi...@comcast.net wrote:
 
 I have a former software developer colleague who is now teaching math at a 
 large state university.  He agrees with me that colleges and universities 
 should educate young minds rather than train them for careers.  His 
 preference is to teach students how to think about mathematics rather than 
 how to crank out calculations.  If I were a teacher, I would add to his 
 preference the teaching of young minds how to think critically and not accept 
 blindly what everyone else around them believes or does. 
 
 
 We both began our programming careers when computing was still interesting, 
 and there was enough time in every job to think about what was going on 
 rather than servicing the corporate money machine.  Every young person 
 contemplating a mainframe career should spend a week reading IBM-Main.  Maybe 
 they do and that’s another reason why the profession is dying. 
 
 
 
 
 
 Bill Fairchild 
 
 Franklin, TN 
 
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Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security

2013-11-05 Thread Don Imbriale

How is this mainframe-related?


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:28 PM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Poles must be conceded a great deal of retaliatory freedom in the
 matter of inventing 'foreign' names.

 A parenthesis-free notation devised by Jan Łukasiewicz---It is
 presented in a footnote in his classic little English-language book on
 the relationships between Aristotelian and modern logics---is called
 Polish notation in English because anglophones are judged to be too
 language-challenged to pronounce Łukasiewicz.

 John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

jperr...@pacbell.net (Jon Perryman) writes:
 * UNIX: TCP/IP was not publicly available until the 70's. Prior to
 that, simple communications were available.

  * z/OS: SNA existed long before TCP/IP was available. SNA was a
 robust, reliable and secure communications methodology. Once TCP was
 became available, we had the same situation as Betamax versus VHS. TCP
 won.

arpanet was host-to-host with IMPs from late 60s ... and in many ways
similar to SNA (but well before SNA). big problem was that it wouldn't
support large distributed ... and frequently autonomous, decentralized
infrastructure ... and so start was made on internetworking protocol.

the great change over of arpanet to internetworking (tcp/ip) protocol
came 1Jan1983. at the time there was approx. 100 IMP network nodes with
around 255 connected hosts.

by comparison in 1983, the internal network was rapidly approaching 1000
nodes which it passed Jun1983 ... some internal network references for
1983 in this past post (in some sense it had gateway in every node which
greatly simplified semi-autonomous expanding the network and was major
factor in it being larger than arpanet/internet from just about the
beginning until possibly late '85 or early '86)
 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#8
other past posts mentioning internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

note ... virtual machines, gml (morphs into sgml, html, etc), lots of
interactive stuff ... all came out of the IBM cambridge science center
... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

the internal network also came out of the science center, co-worker
responsible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edson_Hendricks

the internal network was not SNA ( not VTAM) ... technology similar to
the internal network was also used for the univ. bitnet (where this
ibm-main mailing list originated) ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet
wiki reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BITNET

starting in the early 80s, I had a HSDT project with T1 and faster speed
links ... supporting both internal network protocol and tcp/ip ...  some
past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

one of the issues was SNA/VTAM only supported up to 56kbit links ... in
the mid-80s, we were having some equipment built on the other side of
the pacific. Friday before a trip, the communication group announced a
new communication discussion group with the following definitions

low-speed:   9.6kbits
medium-speed:19.2kbits
high-speed : 56kbits
very high-speed: 1.5mbits

monday morning on the other side of pacific

low-speed:   20mbits
medium-speed:100mbits
high-speed:  200-300mbits
very high-speed: 600mbits

...

As part of trying to justifying only having support up to 56kbit links,
the communication group prepared a report for the executive committee
why customers wouldn't want T1 support until sometime in the 90s.  As
part of the report, they did a study of 37x5 fat-pipe support at
customers ...  multiple parallel 56kbit links treated as single logical
link. They showed that the number dropped to zero around five or six
parallel 56kbit links. What they possibly didn't realize was that telco
tariffs for 5 or 6 56kbit links were about the same as single T1 link
... and customers would switch to full T1 and non-IBM boxes. At the
time, we did a trivial customer survey of installed T1 links and found
over 200.

I was also working with various institutions and NSF ... and we were
suppose to get $20M to tie together the NSF supercomputer centers.  Then
congress cut the budget and a few other things happened, and finally NSF
released an RFP. Internal politics prevented us from bidding on the RFP
... the director of NSF tried to help, writting the company a letter
(copying the CEO) but that just made the internal politics worse (as
references to what we already had running was at least 5yrs ahead of all
RFP responses).

Some old NSFNET related email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
NSFNET backbone eventually morphs into the modern internet, reference
http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/401444/grid-computing/

along the way the communication group was spreading all sorts of FUD and
misinformation (regarding NSF supercomputer backbone) ... some of the
misinformation email was collected by somebody in the communication
group and forwarded to us ... reference here (heavily redacted to
protect the guilty)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email870109

In later part of the 80s, the communication group attempted a patchwork
solution with the 3737 ... a box that supported T1 link ... but only had
aggregate throughput of 2mbit/sec (T1 is full-duplex 1.5mbit/sec or
3mbit/sec aggregate, EU T2 is full-duplex 2mbit/sec or 4mbit/sec
aggregate). Because VTAM line processing wouldn't keep the faster links
busy ... the 3737 spoofed a CTCA to the host vtam and immediately ACKed
the local VTAM

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

David, 
So true , i am 63 still working..Unfortunately, we need money to live...lol

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD

'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'


 On Nov 5, 2013, at 7:32 AM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On 5/11/2013 8:01 PM, Shane Ginnane wrote:
 On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 11:33:12 +, DASDBILL2 wrote:
 
 Every young person contemplating a mainframe career should spend a week 
 reading IBM-Main.  Maybe they do and that’s another reason why the 
 profession is dying.
 That's a bit close to the bone.
 
 Indeed! It's and old story isn't it? If youngster's don't have easy access to 
 a platform they will not be interested in it. They can install Linux on a 
 cheap PC and hack away to their hearts content.
 IBM really do need to wake up and start providing either emulation or cheap 
 virtual machines to as many universities as they can reach.
 
 Shane ...
 
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Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-05 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 13:33:37 -0600, Kirk Wolf wrote:

I don't see anything like that in the Makefile.

I'm far from an export on make, and the OpenSSL Makefile is pretty nasty.
My best guess is that you need to define your own inference rule something
like:

%.o : %.c
   $(CC) -c $(CCFLAGS) -Wc,LIST $ $*.list

One of the problems I've had doing this sort of thing is that the options
to c89 require the use of shell metacharacters.  This is made worse because
./configure has (at least) two different passes, one of which evaluates the
command through one more level than the other, frustrating any attempt
to quote the metacharacters.

But that was long ago; perhaps xlc has become more configure-friendly.
At that time, I concluded that the IBM designers really didn't care about
the GNU expectations.

-- gil

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za (Elardus Engelbrecht) writes:
 Around 1990 and so when death of mainframe has been predicted [1],
 someone said to me: The technology to completely replace big iron has
 not been in place properly. Now, it is still, to my astonishment,
 somewhat true! Rather, new things evolved in the meantime.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#16 z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = 
Aging Farmers

mid-80s, top executives were predicting revenue would double (to
approx. $215B in today's dollars) mostly based on mainframe and
instituted massive internal building program to double mainframe
manufacturing capacity ... this was just at the start when things were
began to go in the opposite direction (and it wasn't exactly career
enhancing to point it out, also see previous post to the reference about
drop in disk sales and communication group stranglehold on the
datacenter).

early 90s, the company went into the red and top executives re-orged the
company into the 13 baby blues in preparation for breaking up the
company ... this was before the board brought in Gerstner to reverse the
breakup and resurrect the company (he refocused the company from
hardware products to services). The people in POK had been expecting to
be totally shutdown and were sending out email referencing would the
last person to leave POK, please turn out the lights.

Mainframe sales have been running around $5B/annum (compared to the
prediction for $200B+) ... or the equivalent of approx. 180
max. configured z196.

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers


On 6/11/2013 5:40 AM, Mark Post wrote:

Now if you want to point a finger at some things in Linux that really, really 
could use improvement, let's talk about diagnostic instrumentation in the 
operating system, as well as much better data for performance management.  The 
latter particularly is pretty much a joke.  If I were competent to hack on the 
kernel, that's  what I would like to see improved.


Wouldn't it be nice if Linux had something like the z/OS system trace.

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers


On 6/11/2013 12:37 AM, John Gilmore wrote:

I do of course agree that z/OS is perceived to be boring, but that is
another question.


I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user 
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's easy to copy files
using a simple command. For those that prefer GUIs they can drag and 
drop or copy/paste. On the mainframe one has no choice but

to run JCL. JCL certainly is an antique, and a very unpleasant one.

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

For security, the ones I know about are LDAP, RSA.and standard UNIX security 
model. I suspect there are others in the GRC field.  


What makes UNIX so fun is what makes it so much work. There are many methods 
and interfaces to do the same thing. In z/OS, we tend to have one or two 
interfaces. E.g. standard security on z/OS is provided by a single programming 
interface regardless of the ESM you are using.

Jon Perryman.




 From: Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za



Could you be kind to list the differences between these systems on Security? 
z/OS has RACF (or other ESM). What do you use in UNIX / Linux / other world 
for security? Audit trails? Product management? Intrusion detection? etc?


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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I meant to say when TCP/IP was publicly available. I think ARPANET was only 
available to the military.

Jon Perryman.

 From: Anne  Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

jperr...@pacbell.net (Jon Perryman) writes:
 * UNIX: TCP/IP was not publicly available until the 70's. Prior to
 that, simple communications were available.

  * z/OS: SNA existed long before TCP/IP was available. SNA was a
 robust, reliable and secure communications methodology. Once TCP was
 became available, we had the same situation as Betamax versus VHS. TCP
 won.

arpanet was host-to-host with IMPs from late 60s ... and in many ways
similar to SNA (but well before SNA). big problem was that it wouldn't
support large distributed ... and frequently autonomous, decentralized
infrastructure ... and so start was made on internetworking protocol.

the great change over of arpanet to internetworking (tcp/ip) protocol
came 1Jan1983. at the time there was approx. 100 IMP network nodes with
around 255 connected hosts.

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

jperr...@pacbell.net (Jon Perryman) writes:
 I meant to say when TCP/IP was publicly available. I think ARPANET was
 only available to the military.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#16 z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = 
Aging Farmers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#17 z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = 
Aging Farmers

attachment and IMPs required arpa approval ... which limited uptake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

lots of universities  non-DOD, milnet was the part of the arpanet for
unclassified DOD traffic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MILNET

note that nsfnet backbone in the late 80s also had AUP (acceptable use
policy) for non-commercial use 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Science_Foundation_Network

... although there was freely available tcp/ip protocol implementations
available on lots of platforms ... and could be used for private
networks ... even if they didn't connect to regional and/or backbone

it was until early 90s and CIX that you have transition to commercial
backbone. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Internet_eXchange

i've periodically commented that tcp/ip was the technology basis for the
modern internet, nsfnet backbone was the operational basis for the
modern internet and (finally) cix was the business basis for the modern
internet.

RFC standard specifications for both arpanet and tcp/ip were publicly
available and anybody could implement support. my RFC index
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm

trivia, until Postel (rfc editor) passed, he let me do part of STD1.

as undergraduate in the 60s, I did a lot of operating system changes
... both os/360 and (virtual machine) cp67. cp/67 shipped with 1052 and
2741 terminal support ... but univ. also ascii tty terminals ...  so I
did the work to add ascii tty terminal support. cp/67 did dynamic
terminal type identification for 1052  2741s ... so I tried to extend
it for tty support (this was picked up by the science center and shipped
in standard cp67) ... which didn't quite work the way I wanted. leased
lines were fine ... but I wanted a single dialup number (hunt group)
for all terminals. the problem was IBM had taken short cut in terminal
controller; it was possible to dynamically change the line-scanner for
each port (SAD CCW) ... but the line-speed (oscillator) was hard-wired
for each port.

somewhat as a result the univ. started a clone controller project ...
reverse engineer a channel interface board, program an interdata/3
minicomputer to emulate ibm terminal controller (with own channel
interface board) ... supporting both dynamic terminal type and dynamic
terminal line-speed. this later was extended with an interdata/4 for the
channel interface and cluster of interdata/3s for port interfaces.  this
was made available to interdata which marketed it commercially (later
Perkin/Elmer bought Interdata and continued to sell under PE logo).
Four of us got written up for being responsible for some part of the
clone controller business ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcm

early 70s, IBM had the Future System project (would completely replace
360/370) ... a major motivation was to significantly raise the bar for
clone controllers (lack of 370 products during this period is credited
with giving clone processors a market foothold). Later when FS imploded
there was mad-rush to get products back into the 370 pipelines. some
past posts 
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

there have been claims that the extreme complexity in the PU5/PU4
(VTAM/NCP) interface was attempt to meet the base FS objectives of
significantly raising the bar as countermeasure to clone controllers
(major design point for sna architecture).


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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

These aren't imagined ills. They are ill's that have been healed in recent 
year's (in the scheme of things). Maybe Unix isn't as rusty as I thought. In 
the last few years, it seems to have matured some but it still doesn't make it 
better than z/OS. 

Gilmartin is the one who is stating imagined ill's about z/OS which started 
this. TSO alloc  exec's have existed for decades that could easily merge 
datasets. Use of UNIX rename over the use of GDG's which has also existed for 
decades. 

10 to 15 years ago is about the same timeframe as the cloud so there is some 
good that has come about partially due to it's requirements. Living 30 years 
without LVM and CPU hotplug (both came in about the same timeframe) or some 
sort of shared resources seems like a long time.


As for CPU usage, my point is that MVS has WLM to balance workload. It's a 
standard interface that vendor products can influence and participate with. In 
the cloud and Unix, is there a standardized tool or a standardized method for 
vendors to participate and influence workload? There must be methodologies but 
what is their commonality.

What is your definition of tightly coupled? Tightly coupled is shared memory 
and shared I/O. That's exactly what is provided by sysplex.

I won't argue the pricing model. That's all IBM so they are to blame. 

On the other side, Unix has seen many of it's improvements because of z/OS. You 
may not think so but look at the timelines and make comparisons. The last one I 
personally saw was high availability. IBM implemented SAP/HA on z/OS and SAP 
received the SAP/HA modifications. A few years later, Linux-HA came out to 
support SAP/HA.

My point is that z/OS is no worse than UNIX. It's not the beast that UNIX 
people believe it to be. Granted there could be improvements but that's true 
for anything.

Jon Perryman.





 From: Mark Post mp...@suse.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
 

 On 11/5/2013 at 02:49 PM, Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: 
-snip-
 As for showing that z/OS is not as bad as some would make 
 it out, here are some of the issues the cloud has addressed but not truly 
 resolved:
 
 1. Disk full: 
 * Cloud: Some disk manufacturers have implementations that work well but 
 they exist more as NFS than as a local filesystem and they are still not in 
 heavy use. Other implementations simply use Unix filesystems but they 
 require 
 more disk space than is needed.

I have no idea what you're talking about here, and my company has a product 
that lets you create your own private cloud infrastructure.

 * UNIX: Applications often do bizarre things with disk full. Admin's usually 
 find out there is a problem from user reporting the problem. Adding a disk 
 immediately won't solve the problem because the file system must be copied. 

Wrong.  Logical Volume Manager solved that well over 10 years ago.

 Adding a mountpoint doesn't help. Admin must search / delete files to free 
 space. Increasing the file system size requires the sceduling of down time 
 (it's not just adding space). 

Wrong.  File systems have been able to be resized online for well over 10 
years now.  Some will even let you shrink them while they're online.

 * z/OS: Applications will die but we can have automation to add disks to a 
 storage group in a  matter of seconds. We can easily steal disks from our 
 test systems in an emergency where we don't have sufficient extra's.

This is no different in the distributed world.  It all depends on how friendly 
you are with the storage administrators.

 We have 
 HSM to migrate seldom used files to tape. Admins can change the migration 
 interval.

There are products that will do this, but I wish they had more capabilities.  
HSM is one of the (very) few things I miss about z/OS.

 2. CPU busy.
 * Cloud: There are a few implementations to spread workload (e.g. SOA). They 
 all are the same basic principle but with different standards. They all 
 basically send a request and wait for a response. It still exists within the 
 restrictions of UNIX.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about here.

 * UNIX: Can't dynamically add a cpu without reboot. Loosely coupled. Can't 
 offload workload without purpose built applications (E.g. Peoplesoft and 
 SAP). 

Wrong.  CPU hotplug and removal has been around quite a long time.

 * z/OS: We have WLM to prioritize workload. CPU's can be dynamically added 
 (IBM often has spares in the box that can be quickly purchased). Our systems 
 are tightly coupled thru sysplex. IMS, CICS, TSO and batch can easily be 
 spread on any / all systems within the sysplex.

Sorry, but I don't see sysplex as being tightly coupled.  At least that's 
not the definition I learned 30 years ago.  In many ways, sysplex is the z/OS 
implementation of High Availability.  Being a specialized implementation, it 
could do some

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers


On 6/11/2013 8:31 AM, Jon Perryman wrote:

For security, the ones I know about are LDAP, RSA.and standard UNIX security 
model. I suspect there are others in the GRC field.


Your forgot kerberos, probably the most significant. z/OS supports LDAP 
(Tivoli) and kerberos and so it should. It has to play nicely with 
others and open standards are

the best way to achieve that.



What makes UNIX so fun is what makes it so much work. There are many methods 
and interfaces to do the same thing. In z/OS, we tend to have one or two 
interfaces. E.g. standard security on z/OS is provided by a single programming 
interface regardless of the ESM you are using.


It's a shame to same can't be said of the file system. In Unix 
everything is a file and shares the same API. I use the same interface 
for files, sockets, printers, terminals, modems or any other device.

I wish OS/360 had a similar unifying design principle back in the day.


Jon Perryman.





From: Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za



Could you be kind to list the differences between these systems on Security? 
z/OS has RACF (or other ESM). What do you use in UNIX / Linux / other world for 
security? Audit trails? Product management? Intrusion detection? etc?


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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-05 Thread Gerhard Postpischil


On 11/5/2013 7:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:

I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's easy to copy files
using a simple command. For those that prefer GUIs they can drag and
drop or copy/paste. On the mainframe one has no choice but
to run JCL. JCL certainly is an antique, and a very unpleasant one.


IIRC, IBM has had a simple COPY command ever since TSO/E - no JCL 
needed. JCL is unpleasant only if you're not used to it; I've run on 
Univac, Unisys, CDC, and other systems, and found JCL to be a good 
compromise of simplicity and power.


And I find cp terribly confusing - to a neophyte does it stand for 
copy, or compare, or compress (as in disk reorganization). It might make 
more sense if I could assign an alias of COPY to it.


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, Vermont

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers


On 6/11/2013 10:33 AM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote:

On 11/5/2013 7:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:

I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's easy to copy files
using a simple command. For those that prefer GUIs they can drag and
drop or copy/paste. On the mainframe one has no choice but
to run JCL. JCL certainly is an antique, and a very unpleasant one.


IIRC, IBM has had a simple COPY command ever since TSO/E - no JCL 
needed. JCL is unpleasant only if you're not used to it; I've run on 
Univac, Unisys, CDC, and other systems, and found JCL to be a good 
compromise of simplicity and power.




I've been using JCL for over 25 years and I still find it unpleasant! In 
the early 90s I was introduced to AS/400s which had a very nice language 
called CL. It was light years ahead of JCL and a pleasure
to use. Yet again, it comes back to antiquity. JCL was invented for 
OS/360 and were stuck with it. IIRC, Fred Brooks described JCL as the 
worst programming language ever designed and lamented the fact that it 
happened on his shift.


And I find cp terribly confusing - to a neophyte does it stand for 
copy, or compare, or compress (as in disk reorganization). It might 
make more sense if I could assign an alias of COPY to it.




Yes, those Unix commands a very terse. They could of at least stuck a y 
on the end :)



Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, Vermont

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Unix and Windows have a lot of similarities. User interfaces are often similar. 
Most users will continue using those if possible. 


z/OS has TSO, CICS and IMS. We have webservers. We can run X-window clients. We 
can run Emacs. The ability exists. The problem is that the desire is not there 
and it's not cheap.


People are creatures of habit and most don't like change. In my early days, I 
worked for a company that couldn't throw money away fast enough so we could buy 
anything we wanted (equipment would show up and they would tell me to make it 
do something useful). We literally had to remove card punches forcing them to 
use the terminals. Even with that, they still insisted on using full screen 
librarian which was a split screen with source displayed at the top and you 
entered librarian change statements at the bottom. Basically the same as when 
we used the card punches. I convinced many to use the VM editor but even by the 
time I left, there was still a few using that program.  

Jon Perryman.




 From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com


On 6/11/2013 12:37 AM, John Gilmore wrote:
 I do of course agree that z/OS is perceived to be boring, but that is
 another question.

I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user 
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's easy to copy files
using a simple command. For those that prefer GUIs they can drag and drop or 
copy/paste. On the mainframe one has no choice but
to run JCL. JCL certainly is an antique, and a very unpleasant one.


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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:18:39 +0800, David Crayford wrote:

On 6/11/2013 5:40 AM, Mark Post wrote:
 Now if you want to point a finger at some things in Linux that really, 
 really could use improvement, let's talk about diagnostic instrumentation in 
 the operating system, as well as much better data for performance 
 management.  The latter particularly is pretty much a joke.  If I were 
 competent to hack on the kernel, that's  what I would like to see improved.

Wouldn't it be nice if Linux had something like the z/OS system trace.

What like ftrace ?.
.. 0r perf, or LTTng, or Systemtap, or a bunch of others ... ?

The functionality is there, although your favourite vendor may not have 
included the appropriate kernel options. I note RHEL 6.4 for z is missing the 
function tracing option for ftrace. Very unfortunate.
ftrace is lightweight and easy enough to dynamically activate.

Shane ...

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

jperr...@pacbell.net (Jon Perryman) writes:
 On the other side, Unix has seen many of it's improvements because of
 z/OS. You may not think so but look at the timelines and make
 comparisons. The last one I personally saw was high availability. IBM
 implemented SAP/HA on z/OS and SAP received the SAP/HA
 modifications. A few years later, Linux-HA came out to support SAP/HA.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#16 z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = 
Aging Farmers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#17 z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = 
Aging Farmers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#18 z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = 
Aging Farmers

about the same time that SNA architecture was originally being created
(major requirement was complexity of vtam/ncp interface as
countermeasure to clone controllers), my wife was co-author of
peer-to-peer networking architecture (internal document AWP39).

later she was con'ed into going to POK to be in charge of
loosely-coupled architecture and while there she did peer-coupled shared
data architecture ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#shareddata

which saw little uptake (except for ims hotstandby) until sysplex (
parallel sysplex) little uptake and periodic battles with the
communication group trying to force her into using san/vtam for
loosely-coupled operation, resulted in her not staying long in the
position.

late 80s/early 90s we did cluster scaleup ha/cmp for rs/6000 ... some
past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

while out marketing ha/cmp in the early 90s, i coined the terms
disaster survivability and geographic survivability ... some
past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#available

i was also asked to write a section for the corporate strategic
continuous availability document ... however both Rochester (AS/400) and
POK (mainframe) complained that they couldn't meet the specification
... and the section was removed.

recent post discussing distributed lock manager for ha/cmp in
greater detail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#86 'Free Unix!': The world-changing 
proclamation made 30 yearsagotoday

and old post mentioning cluster scaleup ha/cmp meeting in ellison's
conference room early jan1992 ... 16-way by mid92 and 128-way by ye92
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

shortly later, cluster scaleup was transferred and we were told we
couldn't work on anything with more than four processors (possibly
contributing was mainframe DB2 complaining that if we were allowed to
proceed, it would be at least five years ahead of them).

it was then quickly announced as ibm supercomputer ... for scientific
and technical only ... press item 17Feb1992
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#6000clusters1

and as a result we decide to leave. later folklore is that oracle
reverse engineers ha/cmp DLM and ports it to other platforms.

DB2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_DB2

from above ... non-mainframe (rs/6000) DB2

In October 2009, IBM introduced its second major release of the year
when it announced DB2 pureScale. DB2 pureScale is a database cluster
solution for non-mainframe platforms, suitable for Online Transaction
Processing (OLTP) workloads. IBM based the design of DB2 pureScale on
the Parallel Sysplex implementation of DB2 data sharing on the
mainframe. DB2 pureScale provides a fault-tolerant architecture and
shared-disk storage. A DB2 pureScale system can grow to 128 database
servers, and provides continuous availability and automatic load
balancing.

... snip ...

17yrs after ha/cmp was going to ship 128-way ... from the annals of
release no software before its time ... past post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#43

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers


On 11/5/2013 5:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:

On 6/11/2013 12:37 AM, John Gilmore wrote:

I do of course agree that z/OS is perceived to be boring, but that is
another question.


I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's easy to copy files
using a simple command. For those that prefer GUIs they can drag and drop or
copy/paste. On the mainframe one has no choice but
to run JCL. JCL certainly is an antique, and a very unpleasant one.



Actually, in a TSO session (analogous to a UNIX session),
you can use the SMCOPY command without JCL. It's just
that most people aren't aware of it.

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  TSO CLIST Programming in z/OS - 3 days
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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers


On 6/11/2013 11:31 AM, Shane Ginnane wrote:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:18:39 +0800, David Crayford wrote:


On 6/11/2013 5:40 AM, Mark Post wrote:

Now if you want to point a finger at some things in Linux that really, really 
could use improvement, let's talk about diagnostic instrumentation in the 
operating system, as well as much better data for performance management.  The 
latter particularly is pretty much a joke.  If I were competent to hack on the 
kernel, that's  what I would like to see improved.

Wouldn't it be nice if Linux had something like the z/OS system trace.

What like ftrace ?.
.. 0r perf, or LTTng, or Systemtap, or a bunch of others ... ?

The functionality is there, although your favourite vendor may not have 
included the appropriate kernel options. I note RHEL 6.4 for z is missing the 
function tracing option for ftrace. Very unfortunate.
ftrace is lightweight and easy enough to dynamically activate.


I know you can trace syscalls etc but do any of those traces compare to 
system trace? Are there any traces for zLinux which report 
hardware/software interrupts?



Shane ...

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Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

 On 11/5/2013 at 09:33 PM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net wrote: 
 And I find cp terribly confusing - to a neophyte does it stand for 
 copy, or compare, or compress (as in disk reorganization). It might make 
 more sense if I could assign an alias of COPY to it.

Try alias copy=cp
or
alias compare=diff
or
alias compress=gzip

It's just like anything else.  It's really not that hard, if you spend any 
amount of time working with the commands.  If you don't, they fade pretty 
quickly.


Mark Post

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:40:15 +0800, David Crayford wrote:

I know you can trace syscalls etc but do any of those traces compare to
system trace? Are there any traces for zLinux which report
hardware/software interrupts?

All the tools I mentioned are (predominantly) kernel-space.
ftrace (nominally {kernel} function trace, but more than just that) exports a 
ring buffer via a debugfs mountpoint - so you don't even need to get a 
failure/dump to look at it. The probe points are instrumented in the kernel but 
dormant until activated.
perf can reach down to the counters in the hardware - TLB purges, cache misses 
that sort of thing. Think HIS data but documented. Not sure how much is 
implemented in z; I did see mention a while back but it slipped by. Not 
something you'd run all the time.

Now for my wishlist, I'd like something (closely) akin to IPCS ... as if.

Shane ...

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Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers