Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-06 Thread Timothy Sipples
IBM has done some recent work improving SMF efficiency, for example via SMF exploitation of the new zEnterprise Data Compression (zEDC) feature. If you have moderate to heavy SMF activity then I would advise taking a close look at the zEDC feature. (There are other reasons to consider zEDC, too.)

Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security

2013-11-06 Thread Scott Ford
Jon, We had the same on the Autoroute in Switzerland ...then sent you the ticket, if you didn't believe the ticket, they sent you a picture and charged you for the picture, I loved it Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Nov 3, 2013, at

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
On 11/6/2013 4:15 PM, Rich Greenberg wrote: I have been around a long time. Retired 10 years and the first "mainframe" I touched had tubes in it. (Bouroughs 220) A historical note for Gerhard and others who wonder about the cryptic commands in Unix (and derivatives). It was largely because of w

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread David Crayford
On 7 Nov 2013, at 9:47 am, "Gibney, Dave" wrote: >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] >> On Behalf Of David Crayford >> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 5:37 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Agi

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
On 11/6/2013 12:03 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: I believe that you're thinking of TSO Data Set Utilities: COPY, FORMAT LIST and MERGE. The only good thing that I can say about it is that it led me to order the ASI TSO Superset Utilities, a much more reliable and better supported replacemen

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers and other mind wanderings....

2013-11-06 Thread Duffy Nightingale, SSPI
Robin, That sounds pretty cool. Is the mainframe server code you are talking about applications or something else? Not to enrage the assembler bigots on here, after all, I am one but COBOL seems to be the simplest, easy to read, easy to teach programming language I have ever seen. I always thou

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Don Poitras
In article <4212144266386912.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu> you wrote: > On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 15:02:48 -0800, Frank Swarbrick wrote: > >Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS?? Seems to me GUI things such as > >the Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc.

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Gibney, Dave
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of David Crayford > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 5:37 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers > > Who knows what the future holds with PCI

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread David Crayford
On 7/11/2013 7:22 AM, Tony Harminc wrote: On 6 November 2013 18:02, Frank Swarbrick wrote: Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS? Seems to me GUI things such as the Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc., and even RDz could be well served by being X-Wind

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 15:02:48 -0800, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS?� Seems to me GUI things such as >the Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc., >and even RDz could be well served by being X-Windows client applications.� But >w

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
If using UNIX on z/OS, then your hitting the network. Instead you are staying within the same TCP stack. Even if it's on another system in the SYSPLEX, then it would go thru the coupling facility. If you are going off platform, then you would need samba or NFS anyways. If no one is accessing it,

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 16:15:56 -0500, Rich Greenberg wrote: > >A historical note for Gerhard and others who wonder about the cryptic >commands in Unix (and derivatives). It was largely because of what was >available as interactive terminals at the time. Sloow TTYs. 60 to >100 chars per minute.

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
I've run the XTERM and EMACS clients a few years ago. It worked first time without a problem. I wish we had EMACS fully setup for z/OS. I use XEMACS on my PC which has similarities. Jon Perryman.  > > From: Frank Swarbrick >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >Sent:

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:15:34 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote: >It's been a long time but I though DFS had a server (SMB or NFS) that did >exactly what you want. �I think this was one of the configuration I setup. I >won't swear to it though. > True. I was hoping to bypass TCP/IP and network overhead.

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Tony Harminc
On 6 November 2013 18:02, Frank Swarbrick wrote: > Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS? Seems to me GUI things such as > the Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc., > and even RDz could be well served by being X-Windows client applications. > But what d

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Frank Swarbrick
Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS?  Seems to me GUI things such as the Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc., and even RDz could be well served by being X-Windows client applications.  But what do I know... > > From: Jo

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Gord Tomlin
On 2013-11-06 16:52, Pommier, Rex wrote: I would have to say that my 'favorite' *nix commands has to be awk. Talk about a command name having nothing to do with the function. For those who don't know, awk is the first letters of the last names of the 3 people who invented it. It is a text

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Pommier, Rex
I would have to say that my 'favorite' *nix commands has to be awk. Talk about a command name having nothing to do with the function. For those who don't know, awk is the first letters of the last names of the 3 people who invented it. It is a text manipulation language. Rex -Original

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread John McKown
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Gord Tomlin wrote: > On 2013-11-06 15:06, DASDBILL2 wrote: > >> My first thought when I see "cp" is "central processor." >> >> How about using "NIO" as an alias of "cp" (meaning "copy"), where "NIO" >> stands for "Not Intuitively Obvious"? "cpy" is much more intui

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Gord Tomlin
On 2013-11-06 15:06, DASDBILL2 wrote: My first thought when I see "cp" is "central processor." How about using "NIO" as an alias of "cp" (meaning "copy"), where "NIO" stands for "Not Intuitively Obvious"? "cpy" is much more intuitively obvious to me than "cp". Our MVS world is not without sim

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Rich Greenberg
>IIRC, IBM has had a simple COPY command ever since TSO/E - no JCL >needed. JCL is unpleasant only if you're not used to it; I've run on >Univac, Unisys, CDC, and other systems, and found JCL to be a good >compromise of simplicity and power. > >And I find "cp" terribly confusing - to a neophyte

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
Sorry, I must have been thinking of a different product. Not sure which one. Jon Perryman. > > From: Bill Godfrey > > >In case this is causing confusion to some readers, the Session Manager that >includes the SMCOPY command, which was mentioned earlier, has not

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Steve Comstock
On 11/6/2013 1:06 PM, Bill Godfrey wrote: In case this is causing confusion to some readers, the Session Manager that includes the SMCOPY command, which was mentioned earlier, has nothing to do with multiple sessions. There is a chapter about it in the TSO/E User's Guide. http://publibz.boulde

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
It's been a long time but I though DFS had a server (SMB or NFS) that did exactly what you want.  I think this was one of the configuration I setup. I won't swear to it though. Jon Perryman. > > From: Paul Gilmartin > I would make an addition of a virtual file

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread DASDBILL2
My first thought when I see "cp" is "central processor."   How about using "NIO" as an alias of "cp" (meaning "copy"), where "NIO" stands for "Not Intuitively Obvious"?  "cpy" is much more intuitively obvious to me than "cp".   Our MVS world is not without similar egregious examples.  E.g, so

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Bill Godfrey
In case this is causing confusion to some readers, the Session Manager that includes the SMCOPY command, which was mentioned earlier, has nothing to do with multiple sessions. There is a chapter about it in the TSO/E User's Guide. http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IKJ4C2

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
jperr...@pacbell.net (Jon Perryman) writes: > 2. It is the only tool where we can easilyt segregate interactive > versus long running programs. This allows WLM give more resources to > interactive users because they are personally waiting. Sysprog's > encourage it's use by setting WLM such that a u

Re: Size limits on hsm cds files?

2013-11-06 Thread John Eells
Michael Bieganski wrote: Hi, We have an hsm ocds cds file sized cyl(4000,0) a bcds1 cds file sized cyl(4000,0) a bcds2 cds also sized cyl,(4000,0) an mcds1 cds file sized cyl(4000,0) and an mcds2 file also sized cyl(4000,0) About every 3 months or so, 1 or more of these start creeping into the

Re: JCL

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
He's talking about visual sequence  address TSO "ALLOC DDN(XX) DSN('xxx') SHR" address LINKMVS "XXX" versus  //STEP1 EXEC PGM=XXX //XX   DD DSN=XXX,DISP=SHR Jon Perryman. > > From: Gerhard Postpischil > > > >> Yeah, once you get past the backwards idea of exe

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
I don't know if IBM still maintains session manager. When they acquired Candle, they had CL/Supersession which provides different but similar functionality. They need CL/Supersession for OMEGAMON so if they were to get rid of one, it would probably be session manager. Session manager is the equ

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
JCL, TSO and UNIX are very different by nature. While they all are controlled by WLM, WLM handles their defaults differently. TSO has a user who won't tolerate the screen being locked because they want to continue working. JCL is disconnected from the user and the user is willing for the job to

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread John Gilmore
The problem with all of these arguments is that each of us is a creature of his or her own unique experience. What I find felicitous may well, often does, seem counter-intuitive to you. STIMER is not called WAIT because another macro is called WAIT, etc., etc. I do agree that aliasing facilities

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
On 11/6/2013 1:22 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: But why didn't they follow the same direction naming library macros? And why isn't STIMER named WAIT, and why isn't LOAD named GET and ... And why do most of them defy the component prefixing conventions? Macros were contributed by different groups,

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On 2013-11-06, at 11:06, Bob Shannon wrote: >> The "//" hack has long been deprecated by POSIX. IBM should have heeded >> that caution and avoided it. > > Since IBM's use of "//" predated POSIX by twenty years, perhaps POSIX should > have avoided using it. > I think that by deprecating it,

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 10:06:39 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote: >JCL not having loop capabilities has nothing to do with rewinding card readers. > *I* believe he was being facetious. >It has to do with variable substitution occurring as interpretation time. How >would you get out of a loop except by usin

Re: JCL

2013-11-06 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
On 11/6/2013 1:06 PM, Pommier, Rex wrote: It was a light-hearted comment. When I first started using MVS - coming from a quasi-competitor - putting DD cards after the EXEC card came across to me as bizarre. On the other box, we allocated the files needed then ran the program using the allocated

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 13:04:08 -0500, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: > >IBM did users a favor by (mostly) not using obvious names. When I worked >at ADR, the help test asked for assistance with a problem they couldn't >solve - the user has a CoBOL program that invoked the sort, but kept >blowing up no mat

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread efinnell15
Guess in the late 60's was working as a co-op student for Bell South doing central office 'noise surveys'. Anyway all the alarms in the place started going off and people from AT&T long lines started calling. What's going on? Turns out Western Electric was doing a power upgrade to Autodin for ex

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread John McKown
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: > When I first looked at *nix, I did not find either cp, or any alias > capability. The standard copy was pip. > UNIX had pip? I used "pip", peripherial interchange program, in CP/M-80. "alias" isn't usually called a command. It is a sh

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread John Gilmore
Overloaded acronyms are probably inevitable, as in ACM Association for Computing Machinery Academy of Country Music which neither group thinks felicitous. Still, one of the uses of a Google search is to avoid embarassing ones. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:03:14 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > >I believe that you're thinking of TSO Data Set Utilities: COPY, FORMAT >LIST and MERGE. The only good thing that I can say about it is that it >led me to order the ASI TSO Superset Utilities, a much more reliable >and better supp

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about TSO and IDCAMS REPRO. We have this same problem with acronyms now having multiple meaning. Jon Perryman. > > From: John Gilmore > > >The REPRO [assembler] instruction causes the data specified in the >statement that

Re: JCL

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:48:48 -0500, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: >On 11/6/2013 11:28 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: >> it works pretty well. >> >> Yeah, once you get past the backwards idea of executing the program before >> you allocate the datasets. :-) > >I don't understand that comment. In a normal

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
JCL not having loop capabilities has nothing to do with rewinding card readers. It has to do with variable substitution occurring as interpretation time. How would you get out of a loop except by using the CC?  Except in extreme cases, would running the same program multiple times without a JCL

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Bob Shannon
> The "//" hack has long been deprecated by POSIX. IBM should have heeded that > caution and avoided it. Since IBM's use of "//" predated POSIX by twenty years, perhaps POSIX should have avoided using it. Bob Shannon Rocket Software ---

Re: JCL

2013-11-06 Thread Pommier, Rex
Gerhard, It was a light-hearted comment. When I first started using MVS - coming from a quasi-competitor - putting DD cards after the EXEC card came across to me as bizarre. On the other box, we allocated the files needed then ran the program using the allocated files. If you look at the JCL

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
On 11/6/2013 9:54 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: Whereas it's intuitively obvious that IEBGENER means "copy". Give me a break! You can assign whatever alias you choose (even IEBGENER) to "cp" with a single command; either as a shell alias or as a symbolic link. When I first looked at *nix, I did n

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:35:37 -0500, Mitch wrote: > >..., there are a number of tools on the market for managing JCL and a couple >that can actually manipulate and create JCL. > For money!? I build most of my JCL with either Rexx EXECs or POSIX shell (plus sed and awk) scripts. It relieves me of

Re: Size limits on hsm cds files?

2013-11-06 Thread Lizette Koehler
I would check out the current DEF CL suggestions from IBM in SYS1.SAMPLIB (I think it is there). You should be able to see what they suggest for CI Size, and space. Also, use the worksheet in the HSM manual to determine what would be a good size. The xCDS datasets grow based on functions. Just

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:03:58 -0500, Tony Harminc wrote: > >>> IKJ56709I INVALID DATA SET NAME, /etc/logs >>> >> Actually, that could be a valid data set name with >> DISABLE(DSNCHECK) in effect. It appears to me that SMCOPY >> hasn't been updated to support the new facilities of catalogs. > >... Al

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <5279b9ea.50...@trainersfriend.com>, on 11/05/2013 at 08:39 PM, Steve Comstock said: >Actually, in a TSO session (analogous to a UNIX session), you can >use the SMCOPY command without JCL. I thought that you needed Session Manager to use SMCOPY, but sure enough: 2. If the source and

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <1383698253.69812.yahoomail...@web181003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>, on 11/05/2013 at 04:37 PM, Jon Perryman said: >I meant to say when TCP/IP was publicly available. I think ARPANET >was only available to the military. Are you thinking of, e.g., MILNET? ARPANET was basically civilian. --

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <5279aa70.3020...@valley.net>, on 11/05/2013 at 09:33 PM, Gerhard Postpischil said: >IIRC, IBM has had a simple COPY command ever since TSO/E - no JCL >needed. I believe that you're thinking of TSO Data Set Utilities: COPY, FORMAT LIST and MERGE. The only good thing that I can say about i

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
On 11/6/2013 12:44 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: And concerning COPY, wasn't it mentioned earlier here that it belonged to a separately priced feature, perhaps now withdrawn? It's my understanding that IBM first offered it as a chargeable enhancement, but after a while included it in the standard

Re: JCL

2013-11-06 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
On 11/6/2013 11:28 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: it works pretty well. Yeah, once you get past the backwards idea of executing the program before you allocate the datasets. :-) I don't understand that comment. In a normal batch job, the initiator handles allocation, and then invokes the progra

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:57:58 -0500, John Gilmore wrote: >From the current HLASM Language Reference, page 209: > >The REPRO [assembler] instruction causes the data specified in the >statement that follows to be copied unaltered into the object file. > I'm lacking the context. Were we talking abou

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

2013-11-06 Thread David Andrews
On Wed, 2013-11-06 at 16:15 +, Pew, Curtis G wrote: > JCL is *not a programming language*. I might have made the same claim on the basis that JCL isn't Turing-complete, but a minimal amount of googling informs me that programming languages need not be Turing-complete. JCL is a language. You

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:55:05 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote: >Session manager allowed multiple terminal sessions from a single terminal. > Past tense? Is it gone? STTL? Multiple sessions with the same user ID? On the same LPAR? I know there are CBTTape type hacks for this, but it hasn't become mai

Re: Size limits on hsm cds files?

2013-11-06 Thread O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]
What is your freespace value for these datasets? If it is not (0 0), you may be wasting space. I don't see why having varying sizes would be a concern. The Backvol CDS command will back up the required files without regard to size, although I may be corrected on this. No secondary allocation fo

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

2013-11-06 Thread Mitch
Folks, I find it interesting that people are still talking about the various levels of difficulty in managing and coding JCL. Curtis, you are absolutely right, JCL is not a true language, but it is something that each individual has their own nuances with. Having said this, there are a number

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:32:41 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote: >2. It is the only tool where we can easilyt segregate interactive versus long >running programs. This allows WLM give more resources to interactive users >because they are personally waiting. Sysprog's encourage it's use by setting >WLM su

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Tony Harminc
On 6 November 2013 11:23, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >>. ===> smcopy fds(/etc/logs) tds(/u/rex/log-deleteme) >> >> IKJ56700A ENTER INPUT SOURCE DATASET NAME - >> /etc/logs >> IKJ56709I INVALID DATA SET NAME, /etc/logs >> > Actually, that could be a valid data set name with > DI

Re: using ./Configure to generate listing files

2013-11-06 Thread Lloyd Fuller
That is part of why I use a separate shell script to do this.  I parse the parameters and pull the filename into a variable using sed options.  Then I can build a listing file name and specify it in the actual c89/xlc command. For example, this builds a C listing filename:   sname3=`echo $argshif

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread John Gilmore
>From the current HLASM Language Reference, page 209: The REPRO [assembler] instruction causes the data specified in the statement that follows to be copied unaltered into the object file. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
I mostly used CL/Supersession so I don't know the specifics for Session Manager. Session manager allowed multiple terminal sessions from a single terminal. I doubt if it's used much any more since we now have PC's with multiple TN3270 sessions. SMCOPY appears to be COPY/PASTE and it seems to sup

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

2013-11-06 Thread John Gilmore
Many organizations of linguists discourage, even forbid generic discussions of "the origins of language" on the ground that these discussions produce only acrimony. Perhaps we should avoid discussions of "JCL, good or bad?" in the same spirit. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
IEBGENER is the generate utility. It was developed for background (not interactive use). I suspect that today, it is primarily used to copy files because it is synonymous with copying a file  To avoid collisions, IBM add's 3 letter product prefixes. In the interactive environment, we use the CO

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Jon Perryman
JCL get's a bad rap but it is extremely useful. I too dislike using it but I would regret not having it. It certainly could use a rewrite but there are issues with that. JCL gives us batch (or background) processing which some  equate to UNIX background task but it provides so much more:  1. JC

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

2013-11-06 Thread Pommier, Rex
it works pretty well. Yeah, once you get past the backwards idea of executing the program before you allocate the datasets. :-) Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Pew, Curtis G Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On 2013-11-06, at 09:06, Pommier, Rex wrote: >. > >. ===> smcopy fds(/etc/logs) tds(/u/rex/log-deleteme) > > > IKJ56700A ENTER INPUT SOURCE DATASET NAME -

JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

2013-11-06 Thread Pew, Curtis G
On Nov 6, 2013, at 8:45 AM, David Crayford wrote: > Hey, how do I do a loop in this code? > > Forget it kid, they didn't have rewind on punch card readers. I think much of the disdain for JCL comes from inaccurate expectations set by calling it a “language”. JCL is *not a programming language

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Pommier, Rex
Steve, That piqued my interest so I tried it (obviously a non-exhaustive test). Here's what I got: .Menu List Mode Functions Utilities Help . ‹‹‹

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Kirk Talman
IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on 11/06/2013 10:32:09 AM: > From: Paul Gilmartin > The "reverse logic of condition codes" probably was intuitive to an > assembler or FORTRAN programmer who thought of branching > around a statement. I remember first seeing CCs in 1966 while in graduate sc

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Steve Comstock
On 11/6/2013 8:45 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:14:04 -0700, Steve Comstock wrote: Ah. In the TSO Command Reference you will see: "If the source and target of the copy request are both data sets, (SYSOUT or QSAM), you do not have to be logged on under the Session Manager to u

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:14:04 -0700, Steve Comstock wrote: > >Ah. In the TSO Command Reference you will see: > >"If the source and target of the copy request are both data sets, (SYSOUT or >QSAM), you do not have to be logged on under the Session Manager to use the >SMCOPY command." > What's a data

Size limits on hsm cds files?

2013-11-06 Thread Michael Bieganski
Hi, We have an hsm ocds cds file sized cyl(4000,0) a bcds1 cds file sized cyl(4000,0) a bcds2 cds also sized cyl,(4000,0) an mcds1 cds file sized cyl(4000,0) and an mcds2 file also sized cyl(4000,0) About every 3 months or so, 1 or more of these start creeping into the 90%+ full range and we do

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread David Crayford
> On 6 Nov 2013, at 11:32 pm, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >> On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 22:45:01 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >> >> JCL is neither simple or powerful. It's a piece of poorly designed junk that >> should never have made GA. Even it's original implementers admit that it's >> rubbish. Try exp

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:47:45 -0600, Alan Field wrote: >Possibly because many of us don't run Session manager. > Why not? Is that separately priced? I think I tried it once; saw no advantage to it, and reverted. Does it play well with ISPF? >Here's what I get: SESSION MANAGER NOT ACTIVE - SMCOP

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 22:45:01 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >JCL is neither simple or powerful. It's a piece of poorly designed junk that >should never have made GA. Even it's original implementers admit that it's >rubbish. Try explaining the reverse logic of condition codes to a youngster >and th

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Steve Comstock
On 11/6/2013 8:04 AM, Alan Field wrote: Simply from option 6 I entered SMCOPY Alan Field Technical Engineer Principal BCBS Minnesota Phone: 651.662.3546 Mobile: 651.428.8826 Ah. In the TSO Command Reference you will see: "If the source and target of the copy request are both data sets, (SY

Re: STP Setup question for IBM 2818 processsor

2013-11-06 Thread Kieron D Hinds
In case you haven't already, it would be very beneficial for you to spend some time with the STP Planning Guide - SG24-7280 from RedBooks: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247280.html Also, the STP Implementation Guide - SG24-7281 redbook has explicit examples of how to configure STP depe

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 02:05:33 -0600, Michael G Phillips wrote: > >In the Linux/Unix/AIX world it ain't much better but at least there's the >wonderful 'man page's - great if you know what command you want to get details >on but useless if don't. > "apropos" helps some. >Now working with large mai

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Alan Field
Simply from option 6 I entered SMCOPY Alan Field Technical Engineer Principal BCBS Minnesota Phone: 651.662.3546 Mobile: 651.428.8826 From: "Steve Comstock" To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 11/06/2013 08:58 Subject:Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers Sent by:IBM

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Steve Comstock
On 11/6/2013 7:47 AM, Alan Field wrote: Possibly because many of us don't run Session manager. Here's what I get: SESSION MANAGER NOT ACTIVE - SMCOPY IGNORED in response to the SMCOPY command. Alan Field Technical Engineer Principal BCBS Minnesota Phone: 651.662.3546 Mobile: 651.428.8826 I

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 21:33:20 -0500, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: > >IIRC, IBM has had a simple COPY command ever since TSO/E - no JCL >needed. JCL is unpleasant only if you're not used to it; I've run on >Univac, Unisys, CDC, and other systems, and found JCL to be a good >compromise of simplicity and

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Alan Field
Possibly because many of us don't run Session manager. Here's what I get: SESSION MANAGER NOT ACTIVE - SMCOPY IGNORED in response to the SMCOPY command. Alan Field Technical Engineer Principal BCBS Minnesota Phone: 651.662.3546 Mobile: 651.428.8826 From: "Steve Comstock" To: IBM-

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 17:59:20 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote: > >Gilmartin is the one who is stating imagined "ill's" about z/OS which started >this. TSO alloc & exec's have existed for decades that could easily merge >datasets. Use of UNIX rename over the use of GDG's which has also existed for >decad

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread David Crayford
JCL is neither simple or powerful. It's a piece of poorly designed junk that should never have made GA. Even it's original implementers admit that it's rubbish. Try explaining the reverse logic of condition codes to a youngster and they will die laughing. Hey, how do I do a loop in this code?

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Ian
Robin, I know Share usually have a nice ASM training at the Conference. And you get to attend some of the other tracks as well. http://www.share.org/ On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Robin Atwood wrote: > Diverting the thread a tad, does anyone know where you can do an HLASM > course? My youn

Re: STP Setup question for IBM 2818 processsor

2013-11-06 Thread Cifani, Domenic
Thank You We will give it a try today. Domenic Domenic Cifani Technology Consultant III Network Software Canada HP Enterprise Services Telephone (905) 383-7864 HP Cell (905) 869-3279 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf O

Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation

2013-11-06 Thread Blaicher, Christopher Y.
Timothy, I think you are confusing operational costs with software costs. Having worked for several ISV's, we were often looking at ways to make running our products less expensive. We charged just as much for them as before and it did not stop the 'normal' price increases. Note: I twiddle th

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread John Gilmore
The notion that JCL is somehow hateful is widespread and not new. In the 1970s a colleague kept telling me that [UNIVAC] Exec 8 was much superior to JCL. He showed me what it required to compile and execute a FORTRAN program, which he thought compared very unfavorably with the JCL required to do

Re: Serialization without Enque

2013-11-06 Thread Kenneth Wilkerson
Thank you for mentioning the issue with CS/CDS. I have always understood that if you use PLO anywhere to serialize access to an area, you must use it everywhere to serialize access to that area. It's nice to know that the transactional facility serializes it against CS as well. I wish I had acce

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread John McKown
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Michael G Phillips wrote: > > And I find "cp" terribly confusing - to a neophyte does it stand for > > copy, or compare, or compress (as in disk reorganization). It might make > > more sense if I could assign an alias of COPY to it. > well...actually you can do that

Re: Serialization without Enque

2013-11-06 Thread Peter Relson
One of the shortcomings of PLO (unlike TBEGIN(C) ) is that PLO in general serializes only against other uses of PLO. It does not serialize against CS on the same storage, for example. However, cache considerations and doubleword consistency still come into play. A LM of 2 words of a doubleword

Re: STP Setup question for IBM 2818 processsor

2013-11-06 Thread Salah Balboul
"HI ; Wondering if anyone can tell me when I try to setup STP on the HMC and I am doing the Network Configuration Setup. I enter Preferred time server and check of the only allow the server specificied above to be in the CTN. Would I have to select the initialize time and if so what will this ta

query on scpt planning tools

2013-11-06 Thread Tommy Tsui
hi all, i try to run the subcapacity planning tools to estimate the.4hour rolling average, but the output in column R4 shows unavailable and i found most duplicate records with same time, anyone hit this problem before? anything i need to do before running scpt

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Shane Ginnane
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:40:15 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >Are there any traces for zLinux which report >hardware/software interrupts? A random trace for example (note this is a function_graph so gives duration rather than raw timestamps) ... [me@laptop ~]# cat /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/trace |

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

2013-11-06 Thread Michael G Phillips
> And I find "cp" terribly confusing - to a neophyte does it stand for > copy, or compare, or compress (as in disk reorganization). It might make > more sense if I could assign an alias of COPY to it. well...actually you can do that, quite easily: alias COPY=cp I "cut my teeth" on DOS rel 26 m