Re: Interchange best practice?

[David Crayford]

zsh has more advanced auto completion than bash and a cool plugin system 
with great tooling such as deep Git integration. Most devs prefer zsh as 
a login shell.

For writing scripts I stick with bash.

On 2019-12-10 2:27 PM, Martin Packer wrote:


zsh has a minor advantage of being the new default MacOS shell. (I still
use bash - in a basic way - and see no impetus to move.)

Cheers, Martin

Sent from my iPad


On 10 Dec 2019, at 04:33, David Crayford  wrote:

On 2019-12-10 3:18 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

Does anybody outside of the z world use the POSIX shell?

Yes! It's the default shell on a lot of Linux systems like Ubuntu when
you add a new user. Although, most admins will assign a different shell
such as zsh or bash using the "useradd" command with the -s option.

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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Martin Packer]

zsh has a minor advantage of being the new default MacOS shell. (I still
use bash - in a basic way - and see no impetus to move.)

Cheers, Martin

Sent from my iPad

> On 10 Dec 2019, at 04:33, David Crayford  wrote:
>
> On 2019-12-10 3:18 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> Does anybody outside of the z world use the POSIX shell?
>
> Yes! It's the default shell on a lot of Linux systems like Ubuntu when
> you add a new user. Although, most admins will assign a different shell
> such as zsh or bash using the "useradd" command with the -s option.
>
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741598. 
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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Gord Tomlin]

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507, gord.tom...@actionsoftware.com
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

On 2019-12-09 14:18, Seymour J Metz wrote:

The Linux community is pushing bash, and they're a large part of the *ix 
communit


FWIW, bash isn't the default shell throughout Linuxland. Some of the 
biggies use dash (which complies with POSIX):


https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-linux-binbash-vs-bindash-vs-binshshell/


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Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[David Crayford]

On 2019-12-10 3:18 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

Does anybody outside of the z world use the POSIX shell?


Yes! It's the default shell on a lot of Linux systems like Ubuntu when 
you add a new user. Although, most admins will assign a different shell 
such as zsh or bash using the "useradd" command with the -s option.


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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[David Crayford]

On 2019-12-10 2:34 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

The Rocket port of git, bash, etc. needs to be uploaded as well but most of it 
is in binary.


Is bash required?  Why doesn't the POSIX shell with OMVS suffice?
Or is this a requirement of git core?


git-core is written mostly in Perl and bash shell scripts - #!/bin/env bash



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Re: Interchange best practice?

[Jack J. Woehr]

Now that IBM i is moving into *nix-land with PASE (like USS on z/OS) 
there are a certain number of ksh users.


Bash has a lot of nice user features. Scripters with decade-plus 
experience sometimes prefer ksh.


On 12/9/19 7:28 PM, Lee B wrote:

ksh seems to be the default shell on OpenBSD, as it was (and presumably
still is) on AIX.

On Tue, Dec 10 2019, Seymour J Metz wrote:


Does anybody use Korn these days. The Linux community is pushing bash, and 
they're a large part of the *ix community. I don't know what they *bsd 
community favors, but I doubt that it's POSIX. One of the things that surprised 
me about the original OE was that IBM seemed to have zeroed in on those things 
needed to get certified and ignored those things that, while not required for 
certification were in widespread use. Does anybody outside of the z world use 
the POSIX shell?

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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Lee B]

ksh seems to be the default shell on OpenBSD, as it was (and presumably
still is) on AIX.

On Tue, Dec 10 2019, Seymour J Metz wrote:

> Does anybody use Korn these days. The Linux community is pushing bash, and 
> they're a large part of the *ix community. I don't know what they *bsd 
> community favors, but I doubt that it's POSIX. One of the things that 
> surprised me about the original OE was that IBM seemed to have zeroed in on 
> those things needed to get certified and ignored those things that, while not 
> required for certification were in widespread use. Does anybody outside of 
> the z world use the POSIX shell?

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Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[Charles Mills]

For one particular module:

AR - 4
B - 2 (hey, some of it is old code)
BR - 4
BRAS - 42
CLC - 5
CLI - 2
DC (do you count that?) - 25
IC - 3
ICM - 1
IILH - 1
J - 2
JC - 1
JE - 4
JNE - 3
JNZ (which is the same instruction, right?) - 3
JZ - 7 (JZ + JE - 11)
L (which was my guess for most used) - 90
LA - 57
LARL - 19
LHI - 4
LM - 3
LR - 6
LTR - 10
MVC - 1 (this is "system" code; I would guess application code would have more)
MVCL - 3
MVI - 6
SLL - 1
SR - 26
SRST - 2
ST - 55
STCM - 1
STH - 1
STM - 1
SVC - 1
XC - 2

This is in the open code. There is a fair usage of macros, and I did not count 
op codes in macros.

Too much time on my hands,
Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Rupert Reynolds
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?

Rupert

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Re: what is DSSUMON?

[Tom Brennan]

Unrelated, but the word TELEGENIX in that doc caught my attention. 
Wasn't that a box that connected to a 3270 coax cable, acted like a 
console (with no actual display), watched for certain messages, and then 
displayed tape mount serial numbers on displays mounted on top of reel 
tape drives?


I barely remember having to install software upgrades on such a box, 
maybe in the mid 1980's.  I think it ran a z80 processor and the 
software was delivered on a standard audio cassette tape.


If so, it's also the box that I knocked offline one day by accidentally 
hitting the power cable with my foot when crawling under the raised 
floor.  Oops.


On 12/9/2019 3:30 PM, Tony Thigpen wrote:

Looking into this has been a chase.

The only items of interest in the load module is the assembler product 
code and the binder product code.

.DSSUMON .
..
5695PMB01 
~..569623400 .
. ..ε.
..DSSUMON.
..

There are a lot of messages that start with TDS00..., such as:
TDS0001I DSSUMON MONITOR INITIALIZATION COMPLETE V3.1.9
I also what look like commands:
ABENDSTOPNODEVVAL3CHARALLOCNOALLOCSTATSWTORRESETRELEASEACQUIRENOTE

It is the only item in the library, which has the name:
SYS2.QUICKTAP.V3R1M9.APFLIB

OK, went looking around for any dataset with 'QUICKTAP'. I actually 
found the source. The first line has:

DSSUMON  TITLE 'TDS DISPLAY SUPPORT SYSTEM - UCB MONITOR FOR PCSYS  '

But, no copyright. I finally found doc member written by local staff 
many years ago because it indicates where the system was hosted and it 
was a long time ago that it was hosted at that location.


QUICKTAPE IS A TAPE MESSAGE DISPLAY SYSTEM THAT UTILIZES LARGE
MULTICOLOR DISPLAY PANELS TO INFORM TAPE OPERATORS OF PENDING
TAPE MOUNTS IN A LARGE MAINFRAME TAPE ENVIRONMENT.  A TYPICAL
QUICKTAPE SYSTEM CONTAINS THREE SOFTWARE MODULES:  DSS, GRAPHER,
AND MLOG.  IN ADDITION, DSSUMON IS REQUIRED FOR MVS SYSTEMS.

DSS (DISPLAY SUPPORT SOFTWARE) IS A DOS-BASED PROGRAM CAPABLE
OF MANAGING UP TO 256 HOST SYSTEM INPUTS CONCURRENTLY.  THIS
MENU-DRIVEN PROGRAM PROVIDES THE USER INTERFACE, DRIVES THE
DISPLAYS AND LOGS TAPE ACTIVITY.

THE GRAPHER SOFTWARE ALLOWS QUICKTAPE'S BUILT-IN REPORTS AND
GRAPHS TO BE PRINTED WITHOUT INTERRUPTING TAPE OPERATIONS.
THIS SOFTWARE RESIDES ON A PC OTHER THAN THE QUICKTAPE PC.

QUICKTAPE LOGS ALL MOUNT REQUESTS (INCLUDING ROBOTICS), STORING
THE PREVIOUS 31 DAYS.  AT ANY POINT DURING THE 31 DAYS, THE LOG
FILES CAN BE COPIED OVER TO WHATEVER COMPUTER HAS THE MLOG
SOFTWARE.  MLOG PROVIDES A SEARCH CAPABILITY SO THAT MOUNTS
MEETING ANY SET OF CRITERIA CAN BE IDENTIFIED, INCLUDING:

DSSUMON RUNS ON MVS SYSTEMS, WHERE IT SCANS ALL TAPE DRIVES AND
ISSUES READY MESSAGES WHEN TAPES ARE MOUNTED.  IT ALSO ALLOWS
MOUNTS TO BE CLEARED MANUALLY FROM A CONSOLE ON THE SYSTEM THAT
ISSUED THE MOUNT.  DSSUMON IS NOT REQUIRED FOR ANY OTHER HOST
SYSTEM.

THE VENDOR FOR QUICKTAPE IS TEXAS DIGITAL SYSTEMS (TDS):
   TEXAS DIGITAL SYSTEMS, INC.
   400 TECHNOLOGY PARKWAY
   COLLEGE STATION, TX  77845-5826
   (409) 693-9378  VOICE
   (409) 764-8650  (FAX)
   WWW.TXDIGITAL.COM
   sa...@txdigital.com

QUICKTAPE WAS PURCHASED BY ACS AS A REPLACEMENT FOR TELEGENIX
ON ALL DALLAS LPAR'S.

QUICKTAPE'S STARTED TASK IS DSSUMON, AND IT REPLACES TELEGENIX'S
STARTED TASK TGXARM.

INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS FOR QUICKTAPE ON DCUF ARE AS FOLLOWS:

INSTALLATION HISTORY:
    DATE    LPAR  VERSION  INSTALLER   TASK
  05/30/04  DCUF   3.1.9 BPIP 664964
  05/30/04  DCU0   3.1.9 BPIP 666222




Tony Thigpen

Mark Jacobs wrote on 12/9/19 4:37 PM:
Browse the load module and see if there are any eye catchers/copyright 
notices in it.


Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com 



‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, December 9, 2019 3:56 PM, Tony Thigpen  
wrote:



I have an auto-started initiator running DSSUMON and I don't know what
it is doing. Anybody know what this program does? I think it's a vendor
program that we don't license anymore. The messages don't supply any
vendor name.

- 



Tony Thigpen

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Joe Monk]

"I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors."

"The central processing complex of the System/360 Model 195 is made up of
seven stand-alone units: a CPU, three CPU power supply units, a power
distribution unit, a coolant distribution unit, and a system console
(Figure 2). (A motor- generator set must be ordered separately and may be
located in a remote area.)"

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/funcChar/A22-6943-0_360-195_funChar.pdf


Joe

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 1:43 PM Allan Staller  wrote:

> IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x
> processors.
> I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.
>
>
> HTH,
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Phil Smith III
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Water-cooled 360s?
>
>
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
> sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm
> quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled,
> because we had no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI,
> because we couldn't go bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI
> configuration.)
>
>
>
> But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s
> were water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.
>
>
>
> I'm sure somebody here knows.!
>
>
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Re: what is DSSUMON?

[Tony Thigpen]

Looking into this has been a chase.

The only items of interest in the load module is the assembler product 
code and the binder product code.

.DSSUMON .
..
5695PMB01 
~..569623400 .
. ..ε.
..DSSUMON.
..

There are a lot of messages that start with TDS00..., such as:
TDS0001I DSSUMON MONITOR INITIALIZATION COMPLETE V3.1.9
I also what look like commands:
ABENDSTOPNODEVVAL3CHARALLOCNOALLOCSTATSWTORRESETRELEASEACQUIRENOTE

It is the only item in the library, which has the name:
SYS2.QUICKTAP.V3R1M9.APFLIB

OK, went looking around for any dataset with 'QUICKTAP'. I actually 
found the source. The first line has:

DSSUMON  TITLE 'TDS DISPLAY SUPPORT SYSTEM - UCB MONITOR FOR PCSYS  '

But, no copyright. I finally found doc member written by local staff 
many years ago because it indicates where the system was hosted and it 
was a long time ago that it was hosted at that location.


QUICKTAPE IS A TAPE MESSAGE DISPLAY SYSTEM THAT UTILIZES LARGE
MULTICOLOR DISPLAY PANELS TO INFORM TAPE OPERATORS OF PENDING
TAPE MOUNTS IN A LARGE MAINFRAME TAPE ENVIRONMENT.  A TYPICAL
QUICKTAPE SYSTEM CONTAINS THREE SOFTWARE MODULES:  DSS, GRAPHER,
AND MLOG.  IN ADDITION, DSSUMON IS REQUIRED FOR MVS SYSTEMS.

DSS (DISPLAY SUPPORT SOFTWARE) IS A DOS-BASED PROGRAM CAPABLE
OF MANAGING UP TO 256 HOST SYSTEM INPUTS CONCURRENTLY.  THIS
MENU-DRIVEN PROGRAM PROVIDES THE USER INTERFACE, DRIVES THE
DISPLAYS AND LOGS TAPE ACTIVITY.

THE GRAPHER SOFTWARE ALLOWS QUICKTAPE'S BUILT-IN REPORTS AND
GRAPHS TO BE PRINTED WITHOUT INTERRUPTING TAPE OPERATIONS.
THIS SOFTWARE RESIDES ON A PC OTHER THAN THE QUICKTAPE PC.

QUICKTAPE LOGS ALL MOUNT REQUESTS (INCLUDING ROBOTICS), STORING
THE PREVIOUS 31 DAYS.  AT ANY POINT DURING THE 31 DAYS, THE LOG
FILES CAN BE COPIED OVER TO WHATEVER COMPUTER HAS THE MLOG
SOFTWARE.  MLOG PROVIDES A SEARCH CAPABILITY SO THAT MOUNTS
MEETING ANY SET OF CRITERIA CAN BE IDENTIFIED, INCLUDING:

DSSUMON RUNS ON MVS SYSTEMS, WHERE IT SCANS ALL TAPE DRIVES AND
ISSUES READY MESSAGES WHEN TAPES ARE MOUNTED.  IT ALSO ALLOWS
MOUNTS TO BE CLEARED MANUALLY FROM A CONSOLE ON THE SYSTEM THAT
ISSUED THE MOUNT.  DSSUMON IS NOT REQUIRED FOR ANY OTHER HOST
SYSTEM.

THE VENDOR FOR QUICKTAPE IS TEXAS DIGITAL SYSTEMS (TDS):
  TEXAS DIGITAL SYSTEMS, INC.
  400 TECHNOLOGY PARKWAY
  COLLEGE STATION, TX  77845-5826
  (409) 693-9378  VOICE
  (409) 764-8650  (FAX)
  WWW.TXDIGITAL.COM
  sa...@txdigital.com

QUICKTAPE WAS PURCHASED BY ACS AS A REPLACEMENT FOR TELEGENIX
ON ALL DALLAS LPAR'S.

QUICKTAPE'S STARTED TASK IS DSSUMON, AND IT REPLACES TELEGENIX'S
STARTED TASK TGXARM.

INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS FOR QUICKTAPE ON DCUF ARE AS FOLLOWS:

INSTALLATION HISTORY:
   DATELPAR  VERSION  INSTALLER   TASK
 05/30/04  DCUF   3.1.9 BPIP 664964
 05/30/04  DCU0   3.1.9 BPIP 666222




Tony Thigpen

Mark Jacobs wrote on 12/9/19 4:37 PM:

Browse the load module and see if there are any eye catchers/copyright notices 
in it.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, December 9, 2019 3:56 PM, Tony Thigpen  wrote:


I have an auto-started initiator running DSSUMON and I don't know what
it is doing. Anybody know what this program does? I think it's a vendor
program that we don't license anymore. The messages don't supply any
vendor name.

-

Tony Thigpen

-

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Re: HOW DO I LEAVE IBM-MAIN

[Steve Smith]

The essential information is automatically appended to every message.
-- 
sas

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Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)

[scott Ford]

Seymour,

Me too, I don’t mind helping at all. I will be first to say I don’t know
let me look it up or ask someone who knows more.

Scott

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 2:59 PM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Oh, I'm all for people learning. My problem is with the people who don't
> learn but pretend that they did. If someone politely expresses an interst
> in learning something and I have the experience and free time to help, then
> I'll cheerfully extend a hand. Sometimes all I will have time for is to
> point him to a reference, other times I will do more.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM 
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:34 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS
> ...)
>
> Thanks.
> Again, one is never too old to learn, even at 98.5% of one's mainframe
> career.
>
> Kees.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: 05 December 2019 19:49
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS
> ...)
>
> The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose
> meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the
> iceberg.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Charles Mills 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
>
> "Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any
> hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a
> non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks
> like hex to me.
>
> Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that
> contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The
> industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of
> tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A'
> conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal.
> The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it
> as b'0101 1010'.
>
> "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word
> people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be
> represented in hexadecimal.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote:
>
> >Jeez Gil,
> >
> >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'.
> >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you
> can use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all
> 256, if you accept JCL errors).
> >
> What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character"  Is it
> any
> different from "any character"?  If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word.
>
> I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in:
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm
> ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ...
>
> I visualize a Venn diagram:
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PM-B8kCix2WWZn6q1Vh6voOtKz7viyNw8ESZv-Aq5bojVqDLWvaBjXct5iS4oPcA185iDTfCohjIpNC-fWu8MvNQ0vJb5vItF7ZlPeUEeOIB_Rk1NSMnlSUEcA2ycq7v_x-IB6Ou1uCNNaqzvU_lVHbpYViDMTc7pkBR2V-1ariNB4Q62_cBw66z81wq3M6ETjSNnfRZAbUlNIIg1OgbAvGUWqoQRoVC2oTzmuA-eyYSLt1cxQ-kAgQ9_PqPzxBRQkSnnsVenuXrRUUtLtCiiHJBcoFCfQNaFbnOtqcbQ6Tkes8JvhUlI6P0hwD7aV_YXZjF5S-S5W3uDJ8rdQt87UuMoClaZNHuXjQQtJ1aYAPCa3_4I9TdNxiI-849oi9iSR1kTPUvE4Qh3HbS8welLlsRUUjX6vKhC7yVjGDx8i53KFggUxCu4tLCItjAHHaP/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram
> where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters
> are prohibited.
>
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Tomasz Rola]

On Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 12:36:38PM -0500, Phil Smith III wrote:
> https://hackaday.com/2019/12/08/the-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home/
> sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and
> water-cooling. I'm quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at
> UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had no water. (That was one
> of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go bigger than
> the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)
> 
>  
> 
> But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any,
> 360s were water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.

I vaguely recall reading about some "computing center" operating
sometime in 1960-1980 period, which was water cooled and the heat
exchangers pumped warm water into nearby swimming pool. But I am not
sure, maybe my mind is making this up.

Besides, from this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cooling

(quotation start)

Starting in 1965, IBM and other manufacturers of mainframe
computers sponsored intensive research into the physics of cooling
densely packed integrated circuits. Many air and liquid cooling
systems were devised and investigated, using methods such as
natural and forced convection, direct air impingement, direct
liquid immersion and forced convection, pool boiling, falling
films, flow boiling, and liquid jet impingement. Mathematical
analysis was used to predict temperature rises of components for
each possible cooling system geometry.[2]

IBM developed three generations of the Thermal Conduction Module
(TCM) which used a water-cooled cold plate in direct thermal
contact with integrated circuit packages. Each package had a
thermally conductive pin pressed onto it, and helium gas
surrounded chips and heat conducting pins. The design could remove
up to 27 watts from a chip and up to 2000 watts per module, while
maintaining chip package temperatures around 50 °C (122
°F). Systems using TCMs were the 3081 family (1980), ES/3090
(1984) and some models of the ES/9000 (1990).[2] In the IBM 3081
processor, TCMs allowed up to 2700 watts on a single printed
circuit board while maintaining chip temperature at 69 °C (156
°F).[3] Thermal conduction modules using water cooling were also
used in mainframe systems manufactured by other companies
including Mitsubishi and Fujitsu. 

(quotation stop)

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

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Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

[Lionel B Dyck]

Andrew - excellent catch and suggestion.

Btw. You'll love the enhancements planned for the next drop 


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Andrew Rowley
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 4:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

On 9/12/2019 11:29 pm, Denis wrote:
> I had the same issue, because the mainframe is not allowed to access anything 
> outside. So git clone does not work.

Presumably the mainframe can do a git clone from *somewhere*, otherwise you 
wouldn't install zigi. So you could clone the Gihub repo to a local repository 
the mainframe can reach, and clone that from z/OS. That's the advantage of git.

You would then periodically fetch the changes from Github into the local 
repository as required to keep up to date.


-- 
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

[Andrew Rowley]

On 9/12/2019 11:29 pm, Denis wrote:

I had the same issue, because the mainframe is not allowed to access anything 
outside. So git clone does not work.


Presumably the mainframe can do a git clone from *somewhere*, otherwise 
you wouldn't install zigi. So you could clone the Gihub repo to a local 
repository the mainframe can reach, and clone that from z/OS. That's the 
advantage of git.


You would then periodically fetch the changes from Github into the local 
repository as required to keep up to date.



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Black Hill Software

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Re: HOW DO I LEAVE IBM-MAIN

[Edward Finnell]

>>You can change your listserv options or subscription status at
>>the Archives web interface listserv.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
In a message dated 12/9/2019 2:31:23 PM Central Standard Time, 
paul.bees...@atos.net writes:
To SIGNOFF from IBM-MAIN, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the 
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Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[Rupert Reynolds]

The last time I looked (many years ago) there wasn't a NOP! We used BCR 0,0

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019, 15:42 R.S.,  wrote:

> W dniu 2019-12-09 o 11:05, Rupert Reynolds pisze:
> > Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?
> I know first one: NOP
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
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Re: what is DSSUMON?

[Mark Jacobs]

Browse the load module and see if there are any eye catchers/copyright notices 
in it.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, December 9, 2019 3:56 PM, Tony Thigpen  wrote:

> I have an auto-started initiator running DSSUMON and I don't know what
> it is doing. Anybody know what this program does? I think it's a vendor
> program that we don't license anymore. The messages don't supply any
> vendor name.
>
> -
>
> Tony Thigpen
>
> -
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: what is DSSUMON?

[Allan Staller]

Mainview Auto-Operator?

See:

https://communities.bmc.com/thread/30747?start=0


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Tony Thigpen
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: what is DSSUMON?

I have an auto-started initiator running DSSUMON and I don't know what it is 
doing. Anybody know what this program does? I think it's a vendor program that 
we don't license anymore. The messages don't supply any vendor name.

--
Tony Thigpen

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what is DSSUMON?

[Tony Thigpen]

I have an auto-started initiator running DSSUMON and I don't know what 
it is doing. Anybody know what this program does? I think it's a vendor 
program that we don't license anymore. The messages don't supply any 
vendor name.


--
Tony Thigpen

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Seymour J Metz]

I just fired off feedback to IBM on the lack of a 360/85 link.

If we're going to mention models that never shipped to customers, the 360/90 
and 360/92 were presumably water cooled.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Parwez Hamid 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 3:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

The various high numbered Models of the 360 range had a chequered history and 
its bit difficult to know when these were announced (I am sure the answers are 
somewhere in Google) . Some were not 'announced' and were just built specially 
for NASA and 'others' and sold in very small numbers!

Its interesting IBM's own Archives for Mainframes doesn't even list the 360/85.

https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_profiles.html

BTW: During the very early 70's, I had the privilege of working on a 360/195 at 
Rutherford Labs in the UK (sister organisation of CERN). It was either the 
first  or second one in EMEA. The others were at The UK Met Office and 2 at VW 
in Germany.

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Seymour J Metz 
Sent: 09 December 2019 19:12
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

The 360/91 and 360/95 came out before the 360/85.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Parwez Hamid 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

The first 360 water cooled system was Model 85 followed by the various 
'variants' of Model 91 (including the 195)

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Lester, Bob 
Sent: 09 December 2019 18:36
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

Hi,

Yup, I worked on 360/75J and it was air-cooled.

BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Stein
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Water-cooled 360s?

On Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 12:36:38PM -0500, Phil Smith III wrote:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hackaday.com_2019
> _12_08_the-2Dbarn-2Dfind-2Dibm-2D360-2Dcomes-2Dhome_=DwIBAg=MWFkEA
> Du9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKG
> abWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=HvoeqV2J-z1iKd2zwq0YlYXBHU7Vq
> 0ZiJIbQUGSIpOQ= sparked a discussion on a private list about air-
> and water-cooling. I'm quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at
> UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had no water. (That was one of
> the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go bigger than the
> 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)

The 360/91 was water cooled.  On power up with high humidity care had to be 
taken to avoid condensation/rain in the CPU.

I'd suspect that the 360/75 was water cooled but appears to be air cooled:

  
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bitsavers.org_pdf_ibm_360_fe_2075_223-2D2875-2D1-5F2075-5FProcessing-5FUnit-5FField-5FEngineering-5FManual-5FVolume-5F4-5FMar66.pdf=DwIBAg=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKGabWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=0Huvu4ip5ZaCxUYYi7-T1od7PriGEc5R9SaBzeFRDio=

see page 10 which says:

  cooling: Main Frame  force room air, 3350 cu.ft./min.

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Phil Smith III]

Well, all very interesting. We seem to be fumbling toward a consensus.

 

But we've also uncovered a gaping hole in my question: What does "water-cooled" 
even mean? In this context, *I* think it means "any water cooling", but others 
may quite reasonably differ.

 

Which reminds me: can anyone definitively validate a story I once heard, that 
some company had an employee swimming pool whose contents could be routed 
(presumably via diesel-powered pumps?) to the machine room to allow some 
runtime if they lost the chillers? I always liked that story, visualizing 
someone blowing a whistle and yelling "Out of the pool, we have a data center 
to cool!"

 

.phsiii


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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Parwez Hamid]

The various high numbered Models of the 360 range had a chequered history and 
its bit difficult to know when these were announced (I am sure the answers are 
somewhere in Google) . Some were not 'announced' and were just built specially 
for NASA and 'others' and sold in very small numbers!

Its interesting IBM's own Archives for Mainframes doesn't even list the 360/85.

https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_profiles.html

BTW: During the very early 70's, I had the privilege of working on a 360/195 at 
Rutherford Labs in the UK (sister organisation of CERN). It was either the 
first  or second one in EMEA. The others were at The UK Met Office and 2 at VW 
in Germany.

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Seymour J Metz 
Sent: 09 December 2019 19:12
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

The 360/91 and 360/95 came out before the 360/85.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Parwez Hamid 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

The first 360 water cooled system was Model 85 followed by the various 
'variants' of Model 91 (including the 195)

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Lester, Bob 
Sent: 09 December 2019 18:36
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

Hi,

Yup, I worked on 360/75J and it was air-cooled.

BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Stein
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Water-cooled 360s?

On Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 12:36:38PM -0500, Phil Smith III wrote:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hackaday.com_2019
> _12_08_the-2Dbarn-2Dfind-2Dibm-2D360-2Dcomes-2Dhome_=DwIBAg=MWFkEA
> Du9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKG
> abWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=HvoeqV2J-z1iKd2zwq0YlYXBHU7Vq
> 0ZiJIbQUGSIpOQ= sparked a discussion on a private list about air-
> and water-cooling. I'm quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at
> UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had no water. (That was one of
> the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go bigger than the
> 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)

The 360/91 was water cooled.  On power up with high humidity care had to be 
taken to avoid condensation/rain in the CPU.

I'd suspect that the 360/75 was water cooled but appears to be air cooled:

  
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bitsavers.org_pdf_ibm_360_fe_2075_223-2D2875-2D1-5F2075-5FProcessing-5FUnit-5FField-5FEngineering-5FManual-5FVolume-5F4-5FMar66.pdf=DwIBAg=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKGabWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=0Huvu4ip5ZaCxUYYi7-T1od7PriGEc5R9SaBzeFRDio=

see page 10 which says:

  cooling: Main Frame  force room air, 3350 cu.ft./min.

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Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)

[Seymour J Metz]

Oh, I'm all for people learning. My problem is with the people who don't learn 
but pretend that they did. If someone politely expresses an interst in learning 
something and I have the experience and free time to help, then I'll cheerfully 
extend a hand. Sometimes all I will have time for is to point him to a 
reference, other times I will do more.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)

Thanks.
Again, one is never too old to learn, even at 98.5% of one's mainframe career.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: 05 December 2019 19:49
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)

The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose 
meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the iceberg.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)

"Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any hexadecimal 
character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a non-hexadecimal character? 
Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks like hex to me.

Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that contains 
b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The industry formerly 
used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of tedious and maps poorly to 
8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A' conveys it fairly well. That 
method of conveyance is called hexadecimal. The byte is not hexadecimal: it's 
the same byte as it was when I wrote it as b'0101 1010'.

"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word people are 
looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be represented in 
hexadecimal.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote:

>Jeez Gil,
>
>There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'.
>Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can 
>use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, 
>if you accept JCL errors).
>
What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character"  Is it any
different from "any character"?  If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word.

I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm
... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ...

I visualize a Venn diagram:  
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PM-B8kCix2WWZn6q1Vh6voOtKz7viyNw8ESZv-Aq5bojVqDLWvaBjXct5iS4oPcA185iDTfCohjIpNC-fWu8MvNQ0vJb5vItF7ZlPeUEeOIB_Rk1NSMnlSUEcA2ycq7v_x-IB6Ou1uCNNaqzvU_lVHbpYViDMTc7pkBR2V-1ariNB4Q62_cBw66z81wq3M6ETjSNnfRZAbUlNIIg1OgbAvGUWqoQRoVC2oTzmuA-eyYSLt1cxQ-kAgQ9_PqPzxBRQkSnnsVenuXrRUUtLtCiiHJBcoFCfQNaFbnOtqcbQ6Tkes8JvhUlI6P0hwD7aV_YXZjF5S-S5W3uDJ8rdQt87UuMoClaZNHuXjQQtJ1aYAPCa3_4I9TdNxiI-849oi9iSR1kTPUvE4Qh3HbS8welLlsRUUjX6vKhC7yVjGDx8i53KFggUxCu4tLCItjAHHaP/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram
where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters
are prohibited.

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For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: 

Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Seymour J Metz]

>I don't see it.  In:
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ikjc200/dsrec.htm

That's the user's guide, which is a summary. You need 
.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 19:26:49 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Yes, OMVS is part of z/OS, but I m sure that by "to OMVS" he means "to a file 
>in an OMVS file system".
>
I was commenting more specifically on the "to z/OS" part.  Too
many walls to hop over.

>You should be able to receive from an XMIT file in batch TSO without a prompt. 
> ...
>
I don't see it.  In:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ikjc200/dsrec.htm

When you issue the RECEIVE command and a data set was sent to you, unless 
the
data set was sent as a message, you see something like the following:

Dataset A.DATASET.NAME from USER1 on NODEID
Enter restore parameters or 'DELETE' or 'END' +

You then have the following options:

Receive the data set by pressing the Enter key. If the receive is 
successful,
the new data set name is the same as the one transmitted except your prefix
replaces the first qualifier.
...
So at least some interaction is necessary, at minimum an empty
line (which might be stacked.)

>... AFAIK you can only receive from SPOOL in foreground.
>
IKJEFT*?

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 05:44:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>If you are trying to ftp the rocket git distribution then you should be
>ftp'ing it to OMVS and not to z/OS datasets.  If you are trying to work with
>the zigi (z/OS ISPF Git Interface) then again, ftp to OMVS files and use the
>install.sh script to get the files to z/OS for use.
> "... to z/OS ..."?
Isn't OMVS already just part of z/OS?

-- gil

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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 19:26:49 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Yes, OMVS is part of z/OS, but I m sure that by "to OMVS" he means "to a file 
>in an OMVS file system".  
>
I was commenting more specifically on the "to z/OS" part.  Too
many walls to hop over.
 
>You should be able to receive from an XMIT file in batch TSO without a prompt. 
> ...
>
I don't see it.  In:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ikjc200/dsrec.htm

When you issue the RECEIVE command and a data set was sent to you, unless 
the
data set was sent as a message, you see something like the following:

Dataset A.DATASET.NAME from USER1 on NODEID
Enter restore parameters or 'DELETE' or 'END' +

You then have the following options:

Receive the data set by pressing the Enter key. If the receive is 
successful,
the new data set name is the same as the one transmitted except your prefix
replaces the first qualifier.
...
So at least some interaction is necessary, at minimum an empty
line (which might be stacked.)

>... AFAIK you can only receive from SPOOL in foreground.
>
IKJEFT*?

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 05:44:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>If you are trying to ftp the rocket git distribution then you should be
>ftp'ing it to OMVS and not to z/OS datasets.  If you are trying to work with
>the zigi (z/OS ISPF Git Interface) then again, ftp to OMVS files and use the
>install.sh script to get the files to z/OS for use.
> "... to z/OS ..."?
Isn't OMVS already just part of z/OS?

-- gil

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Seymour J Metz]

I suspect that most if not all of us are upset thinking of that day. I 
certainly am, and I knew nobody in either building.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Christopher Y. Blaicher 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

I worked for one of the first tenants of the original 2 World Trade Center.  We 
installed 2 370/168's. For the first week we were in the building, they would 
turn the building supplied chilled water off in the building at midnight.  
First night, we had to shut the machines down.  Next day we got the phone 
number of the person to call to get the chilled water back on.  It took them a 
few days to realize that computers run 24/7.

They built our computer room first.  All the structural steel was exposed and 
you could see exactly how the building was built.  I had left the company, but 
it was still a very emotional experience to see it come down.  I am still upset 
when thinking about that day.

Chris Blaicher
Technical Architect
Syncsort, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

As were the 360/85, 360/91, 360/95 and 360/195.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Christopher Y. Blaicher 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

370/165 and 370/168 were water cooled.

Chris Blaicher
Technical Architect
Syncsort, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Allan Staller
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x processors.
I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.


HTH,

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Water-cooled 360s?

https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
 sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm quite 
sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had 
no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go 
bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)



But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s were 
water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.



I'm sure somebody here knows.!


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The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
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secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
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The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
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may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Seymour J Metz]

What were the 360/91, 360/95, 360/195, 370/165, 370/168, 370/195, 3032 and 
3033, chopped liver?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Tony Harminc 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 at 12:43, Allan Staller  wrote:

> IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x
> processors.
> I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.
>

Many will say you're wrong, but you do have at least a shred of an
argument...

>From something I posted here in 2010:

The 360/85 and similar 370/165 and /168 had water circulating to all the
CPU frames from a central power and coolant distributing unit. But the
only directly water cooled semiconductors were in small distributed power
supplies, where the power transistors' heat sinks had water channels
through the block. The actual logic chips were mounted on conventional
circuit boards, and each internal rack/stack of such vertically
mounted boards had a finned heat exchanger like a small car radiator
(should be called a "conductor", but it's too late to change car
terminology) with fans blowing air through it and past the boards.

With the 3081, IBM mounted multiple chips in a TCM (Thermal Conduction
Module), and each chip had a helium surrounded piston (aluminum, iirc)
pressing on it, and conducting heat into the surrounding aluminum
block. Then each block had water channels hooked up to the central
PCDU.

Tony H.

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Christopher Y. Blaicher]

I worked for one of the first tenants of the original 2 World Trade Center.  We 
installed 2 370/168's. For the first week we were in the building, they would 
turn the building supplied chilled water off in the building at midnight.  
First night, we had to shut the machines down.  Next day we got the phone 
number of the person to call to get the chilled water back on.  It took them a 
few days to realize that computers run 24/7.

They built our computer room first.  All the structural steel was exposed and 
you could see exactly how the building was built.  I had left the company, but 
it was still a very emotional experience to see it come down.  I am still upset 
when thinking about that day.

Chris Blaicher
Technical Architect
Syncsort, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

As were the 360/85, 360/91, 360/95 and 360/195.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Christopher Y. Blaicher 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

370/165 and 370/168 were water cooled.

Chris Blaicher
Technical Architect
Syncsort, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Allan Staller
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x processors.
I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.


HTH,

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Water-cooled 360s?

https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
 sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm quite 
sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had 
no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go 
bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)



But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s were 
water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.



I'm sure somebody here knows.!


--
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The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
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may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Seymour J Metz]

You're a decade off; the 360/85, 360/91, 360/95, 360/195, 370/165, 370/168, 
370/195, 3032 and 3033 were water cooled.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Allan Staller 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x processors.
I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.


HTH,

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Water-cooled 360s?

https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
 sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm quite 
sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had 
no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go 
bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)



But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s were 
water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.



I'm sure somebody here knows.!


--
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::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
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The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
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may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written 
consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have 
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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Seymour J Metz]

As were the 360/85, 360/91, 360/95 and 360/195.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Christopher Y. Blaicher 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

370/165 and 370/168 were water cooled.

Chris Blaicher
Technical Architect
Syncsort, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Allan Staller
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x processors.
I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.


HTH,

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Water-cooled 360s?

https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
 sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm quite 
sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had 
no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go 
bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)



But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s were 
water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.



I'm sure somebody here knows.!


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and 
may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written 
consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender 
immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for 
viruses and other defects.


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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Tony Harminc]

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 at 12:43, Allan Staller  wrote:

> IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x
> processors.
> I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.
>

Many will say you're wrong, but you do have at least a shred of an
argument...

>From something I posted here in 2010:

The 360/85 and similar 370/165 and /168 had water circulating to all the
CPU frames from a central power and coolant distributing unit. But the
only directly water cooled semiconductors were in small distributed power
supplies, where the power transistors' heat sinks had water channels
through the block. The actual logic chips were mounted on conventional
circuit boards, and each internal rack/stack of such vertically
mounted boards had a finned heat exchanger like a small car radiator
(should be called a "conductor", but it's too late to change car
terminology) with fans blowing air through it and past the boards.

With the 3081, IBM mounted multiple chips in a TCM (Thermal Conduction
Module), and each chip had a helium surrounded piston (aluminum, iirc)
pressing on it, and conducting heat into the surrounding aluminum
block. Then each block had water channels hooked up to the central
PCDU.

Tony H.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Seymour J Metz]

Yes, OMVS is part of z/OS, but I m sure that by "to OMVS" he means "to a file 
in an OMVS file system".

You should be able to receive from an XMIT file in batch TSO without a prompt. 
AFAIK you can only receive from SPOOL in foreground.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 05:44:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>If you are trying to ftp the rocket git distribution then you should be
>ftp'ing it to OMVS and not to z/OS datasets.  If you are trying to work with
>the zigi (z/OS ISPF Git Interface) then again, ftp to OMVS files and use the
>install.sh script to get the files to z/OS for use.
> "... to z/OS ..."?
Isn't OMVS already just part of z/OS?

What technique requires the least error-prone human interaction.

I believe the package should be a single file, transferred to z/OS as *binary*.

o cksum is your friend.  Is a checksum supplied with the package.

o CBTTAPE.org has some practices worth assimilating.

o The package might be a pax archive, extractable with "pax -r ..."

o Or a .zip, extractable with "jar -x ..."
  Is jar generally available on z/OS systems without optional installation?

o PDS[E]s can be TRANSMIT unloaded within the pax/zip.  Cf. CBTTAPE.org.
  RECEIVE has an INDD option which can accept allocated OMVS files.
  RECEIVE runs only under TSO, and getting to TSO from OMVS is a
  tedious extra step.

o It's a shame that:
  - RECEIVE can't run outside TSO.  JCL EXEC or Rexx ADDRESS LINKMVS
would be great.
  - RECEIVE requires reply to a prompt.
  - IEBCOPY doesn't support OMVS files as PDSU.  SMP/E does
an extra conversion step to make that work.
  - AMATERSE doesn't support OMVS files as archive SYSUT1.
I can cheat this, but support would be lacking.
  - OMVS directories are not supported as STEPLIB catenands.
  - OMVS directories are not supported as SYSEXEC catenands.

o Accommodating site naming standards can be a PITA.

o What about the instructions?  An ASCII README file outside the archive?

o SMP/E?

Any suggestions?
-- gil

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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Seymour J Metz]

Does anybody use Korn these days. The Linux community is pushing bash, and 
they're a large part of the *ix community. I don't know what they *bsd 
community favors, but I doubt that it's POSIX. One of the things that surprised 
me about the original OE was that IBM seemed to have zeroed in on those things 
needed to get certified and ignored those things that, while not required for 
certification were in widespread use. Does anybody outside of the z world use 
the POSIX shell?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:18:20 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>The zigi package has been generated in TSO XMIT format and sent to Sam for 
>inclusion on the CBTTape and it will be there in the near future. The initial 
>packaging was for those who could run git to clone. There is also the option 
>to download the package in a zip file, which then requires that it be uploaded 
>to z/OS.
>
>The Rocket port of git, bash, etc. needs to be uploaded as well but most of it 
>is in binary.
>
Is bash required?  Why doesn't the POSIX shell with OMVS suffice?
Or is this a requirement of git core?

>Using OGETX might solve the issue (haven't tried) for the various partitioned 
>dataset files..
>
CBTtape; Rocket port; git clone; zip option; ...?

This is impinging on the Paradox of Choice:

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1wDeip62qK3NOQvSAlrWMk0II11vmOiIYB3If9WvZSTJW7tpcIhpwSvYlHl7Fwm-FcOOrDtn-9rA8_ofJkfI12zZ2ezAP_PoxG2vaqoGSWLer4gVgw9Nue9MPu8_q7GDQImxDFjI6FFqwLdCN_TMN6n-GnD4g8U8MTsRgcenZTzFQiSFX27T5yAZwiBdTXW5RvmhZgkkS0sdu9BUwPBSxCMv90t8OgpAJfpdt-28G7jfAcYaINkg86RHCOUgBU84AOe1aDQU48UzDFTwvEfdL79VIVLClAcXSuGYnzF2dD1OwRQx1M8YOW4AKP90V-QoYBHHVua_kTSSGy34FCFX7d46oBlNN4XphDJiT_vSELLfzLC3xecMa0xCDL9JZK3OGvK94zjMF3YvfCFmvfHFFOaTIT1tuZQOJSks51whRRneYhOba40BRiMOYFGcku95bz1CIDgWMJSpteT0arhSo3Q/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ted.com%2Ftalks%2Fbarry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choice%3Flanguage%3Den#t-8855

-- gil

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Seymour J Metz]

The 360/91 and 360/95 came out before the 360/85.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Parwez Hamid 
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

The first 360 water cooled system was Model 85 followed by the various 
'variants' of Model 91 (including the 195)

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Lester, Bob 
Sent: 09 December 2019 18:36
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

Hi,

Yup, I worked on 360/75J and it was air-cooled.

BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Stein
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Water-cooled 360s?

On Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 12:36:38PM -0500, Phil Smith III wrote:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hackaday.com_2019
> _12_08_the-2Dbarn-2Dfind-2Dibm-2D360-2Dcomes-2Dhome_=DwIBAg=MWFkEA
> Du9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKG
> abWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=HvoeqV2J-z1iKd2zwq0YlYXBHU7Vq
> 0ZiJIbQUGSIpOQ= sparked a discussion on a private list about air-
> and water-cooling. I'm quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at
> UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had no water. (That was one of
> the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go bigger than the
> 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)

The 360/91 was water cooled.  On power up with high humidity care had to be 
taken to avoid condensation/rain in the CPU.

I'd suspect that the 360/75 was water cooled but appears to be air cooled:

  
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bitsavers.org_pdf_ibm_360_fe_2075_223-2D2875-2D1-5F2075-5FProcessing-5FUnit-5FField-5FEngineering-5FManual-5FVolume-5F4-5FMar66.pdf=DwIBAg=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKGabWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=0Huvu4ip5ZaCxUYYi7-T1od7PriGEc5R9SaBzeFRDio=

see page 10 which says:

  cooling: Main Frame  force room air, 3350 cu.ft./min.

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

It's temping to be parsimonious and reduce storage allocation to a bare 
minimum, but it can be a losing game. Regardless of how little storage you 
specify in an LPAR profile, the hardware itself will adjust the 'effective 
allocation' according to the CPU model. That is, the amount of storage reserved 
to an LPAR will never be less than the h/w minimum. So if you specify a 
fraction of the hardware increment, you will effectively lose any remaining 
storage in that range. It cannot be used by any LPAR. 

So you might as well as specify any storage remaining in the increment. It will 
cost you nothing. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jousma, David
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 8:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

I'm pretty sure I've heard it mentioned that Bill Gates said "Who could ever 
need more than 640K of RAM?"   Haha, how times have changed.

_
Dave Jousma
AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering  

Fifth Third Bank  |  1830 East Paris Ave, SE  |  MD RSCB2H  |  Grand Rapids, MI 
49546
616.653.8429  |  fax: 616.653.2717


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

**CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL**

**DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected 
emails**

W dniu 2019-12-09 o 15:56, Burgess, Otto A. pisze:
> Good to know, thanks
>
> Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need 
> to be

Well, not so long ago we discussed whether 1GB is really good choice for 
sandbox z/OS system. The other options were 512MB and .75GB.
Later we increased 1GB to 2GB.
Nowadays I have 16GB ...in my PC, which is old and my new PC waiting for use 
have 32GB. I didn't order anything special, just regular PC.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Parwez Hamid]

The first 360 water cooled system was Model 85 followed by the various 
'variants' of Model 91 (including the 195)

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Lester, Bob 
Sent: 09 December 2019 18:36
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

Hi,

Yup, I worked on 360/75J and it was air-cooled.

BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Stein
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Water-cooled 360s?

On Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 12:36:38PM -0500, Phil Smith III wrote:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hackaday.com_2019
> _12_08_the-2Dbarn-2Dfind-2Dibm-2D360-2Dcomes-2Dhome_=DwIBAg=MWFkEA
> Du9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKG
> abWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=HvoeqV2J-z1iKd2zwq0YlYXBHU7Vq
> 0ZiJIbQUGSIpOQ= sparked a discussion on a private list about air-
> and water-cooling. I'm quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at
> UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had no water. (That was one of
> the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go bigger than the
> 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)

The 360/91 was water cooled.  On power up with high humidity care had to be 
taken to avoid condensation/rain in the CPU.

I'd suspect that the 360/75 was water cooled but appears to be air cooled:

  
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bitsavers.org_pdf_ibm_360_fe_2075_223-2D2875-2D1-5F2075-5FProcessing-5FUnit-5FField-5FEngineering-5FManual-5FVolume-5F4-5FMar66.pdf=DwIBAg=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKGabWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=0Huvu4ip5ZaCxUYYi7-T1od7PriGEc5R9SaBzeFRDio=

see page 10 which says:

  cooling: Main Frame  force room air, 3350 cu.ft./min.

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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Lionel B Dyck]

The Rocket git port has these pre-reqs:  bash, gzip and perl


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:18:20 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>The zigi package has been generated in TSO XMIT format and sent to Sam for 
>inclusion on the CBTTape and it will be there in the near future. The initial 
>packaging was for those who could run git to clone. There is also the option 
>to download the package in a zip file, which then requires that it be uploaded 
>to z/OS.
>
>The Rocket port of git, bash, etc. needs to be uploaded as well but most of it 
>is in binary.
> 
Is bash required?  Why doesn't the POSIX shell with OMVS suffice?
Or is this a requirement of git core?

>Using OGETX might solve the issue (haven't tried) for the various partitioned 
>dataset files..
>
CBTtape; Rocket port; git clone; zip option; ...?

This is impinging on the Paradox of Choice:

https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choice?language=en#t-8855

-- gil

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Lester, Bob]

Hi,

Yup, I worked on 360/75J and it was air-cooled.

BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Stein
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Water-cooled 360s?

On Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 12:36:38PM -0500, Phil Smith III wrote:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__hackaday.com_2019
> _12_08_the-2Dbarn-2Dfind-2Dibm-2D360-2Dcomes-2Dhome_=DwIBAg=MWFkEA
> Du9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKG
> abWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=HvoeqV2J-z1iKd2zwq0YlYXBHU7Vq
> 0ZiJIbQUGSIpOQ= sparked a discussion on a private list about air- 
> and water-cooling. I'm quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at 
> UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had no water. (That was one of 
> the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go bigger than the 
> 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)

The 360/91 was water cooled.  On power up with high humidity care had to be 
taken to avoid condensation/rain in the CPU.

I'd suspect that the 360/75 was water cooled but appears to be air cooled:

  
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bitsavers.org_pdf_ibm_360_fe_2075_223-2D2875-2D1-5F2075-5FProcessing-5FUnit-5FField-5FEngineering-5FManual-5FVolume-5F4-5FMar66.pdf=DwIBAg=MWFkEADu9ctt4KEmLIuwsQ=2NwYDhbHSLSk8Y20BtkXqDR04_yd_pXjwSDkT22AeGs=noWKGabWEloNYvr8dF-eyDFk_R2qlgA9_tNOFSzCQ78=0Huvu4ip5ZaCxUYYi7-T1od7PriGEc5R9SaBzeFRDio=
 

see page 10 which says:

  cooling: Main Frame  force room air, 3350 cu.ft./min.

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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:18:20 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>The zigi package has been generated in TSO XMIT format and sent to Sam for 
>inclusion on the CBTTape and it will be there in the near future. The initial 
>packaging was for those who could run git to clone. There is also the option 
>to download the package in a zip file, which then requires that it be uploaded 
>to z/OS.
>
>The Rocket port of git, bash, etc. needs to be uploaded as well but most of it 
>is in binary.
> 
Is bash required?  Why doesn't the POSIX shell with OMVS suffice?
Or is this a requirement of git core?

>Using OGETX might solve the issue (haven't tried) for the various partitioned 
>dataset files..
>
CBTtape; Rocket port; git clone; zip option; ...?

This is impinging on the Paradox of Choice:

https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choice?language=en#t-8855

-- gil

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Michael Stein]

On Mon, Dec 09, 2019 at 12:36:38PM -0500, Phil Smith III wrote:
> https://hackaday.com/2019/12/08/the-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home/
> sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm
> quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled,
> because we had no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI,
> because we couldn't go bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an
> SSI configuration.)  

The 360/91 was water cooled.  On power up with high humidity care had
to be taken to avoid condensation/rain in the CPU.

I'd suspect that the 360/75 was water cooled but appears to
be air cooled:

  
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/fe/2075/223-2875-1_2075_Processing_Unit_Field_Engineering_Manual_Volume_4_Mar66.pdf

see page 10 which says:

  cooling: Main Frame  force room air, 3350 cu.ft./min.

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Parwez Hamid]

System 360/195 had a coolant distribution unit known as 3086.

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Robert Longabaugh <01f25da983e8-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: 09 December 2019 18:02
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

I worked at a telco in the 1980s and the 3033, 3032, and 3033MP were water
cooled.  There was a 3037 PCDU (Power/Cooling Distribution Unit).

I think the 3031 was air cooled.

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 9:57 AM Christopher Y. Blaicher <
cblaic...@syncsort.com> wrote:

> 370/165 and 370/168 were water cooled.
>
> Chris Blaicher
> Technical Architect
> Syncsort, Inc.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Allan Staller
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:43 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?
>
> IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x
> processors.
> I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.
>
>
> HTH,
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Phil Smith III
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Water-cooled 360s?
>
>
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
> sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm
> quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled,
> because we had no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI,
> because we couldn't go bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI
> configuration.)
>
>
>
> But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s
> were water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.
>
>
>
> I'm sure somebody here knows.!
>
>
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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Dan at Poodles]

An IBM 370/168 was water cooled.  We had three of them at EDS in Camp Hill
back in the '70s. 
=> http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/IBM-ProdAnn/370-168.pdf <=


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Allan Staller
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:43 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x
processors.
I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.


HTH,

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Phil Smith III
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Water-cooled 360s?

https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.c
om%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7
Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f
5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmL
gQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0 sparked a discussion on a
private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm quite sure that the /44 and
/75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had no water (That was
one of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go bigger than the
4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)



But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s
were water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.



I'm sure somebody here knows.!


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Re: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Lionel B Dyck]

The zigi package has been generated in TSO XMIT format and sent to Sam for 
inclusion on the CBTTape and it will be there in the near future. The initial 
packaging was for those who could run git to clone. There is also the option to 
download the package in a zip file, which then requires that it be uploaded to 
z/OS.

The Rocket port of git, bash, etc. needs to be uploaded as well but most of it 
is in binary.

Using OGETX might solve the issue (haven't tried) for the various partitioned 
dataset files..

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 05:44:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>If you are trying to ftp the rocket git distribution then you should be 
>ftp'ing it to OMVS and not to z/OS datasets.  If you are trying to work 
>with the zigi (z/OS ISPF Git Interface) then again, ftp to OMVS files 
>and use the install.sh script to get the files to z/OS for use.
> "... to z/OS ..."?
Isn't OMVS already just part of z/OS?

What technique requires the least error-prone human interaction.

I believe the package should be a single file, transferred to z/OS as *binary*.

o cksum is your friend.  Is a checksum supplied with the package.

o CBTTAPE.org has some practices worth assimilating.

o The package might be a pax archive, extractable with "pax -r ..."

o Or a .zip, extractable with "jar -x ..."
  Is jar generally available on z/OS systems without optional installation?

o PDS[E]s can be TRANSMIT unloaded within the pax/zip.  Cf. CBTTAPE.org.
  RECEIVE has an INDD option which can accept allocated OMVS files.
  RECEIVE runs only under TSO, and getting to TSO from OMVS is a
  tedious extra step.

o It's a shame that:
  - RECEIVE can't run outside TSO.  JCL EXEC or Rexx ADDRESS LINKMVS
would be great.
  - RECEIVE requires reply to a prompt.
  - IEBCOPY doesn't support OMVS files as PDSU.  SMP/E does
an extra conversion step to make that work.
  - AMATERSE doesn't support OMVS files as archive SYSUT1.
I can cheat this, but support would be lacking.
  - OMVS directories are not supported as STEPLIB catenands.
  - OMVS directories are not supported as SYSEXEC catenands.

o Accommodating site naming standards can be a PITA.

o What about the instructions?  An ASCII README file outside the archive?

o SMP/E?

Any suggestions?
-- gil

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Interchange best practice? (was: GIT ... length issue)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 05:44:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote:

>If you are trying to ftp the rocket git distribution then you should be
>ftp'ing it to OMVS and not to z/OS datasets.  If you are trying to work with
>the zigi (z/OS ISPF Git Interface) then again, ftp to OMVS files and use the
>install.sh script to get the files to z/OS for use.
> "... to z/OS ..."?
Isn't OMVS already just part of z/OS?

What technique requires the least error-prone human interaction.

I believe the package should be a single file, transferred to z/OS as *binary*.

o cksum is your friend.  Is a checksum supplied with the package.

o CBTTAPE.org has some practices worth assimilating.

o The package might be a pax archive, extractable with "pax -r ..."

o Or a .zip, extractable with "jar -x ..."
  Is jar generally available on z/OS systems without optional installation?

o PDS[E]s can be TRANSMIT unloaded within the pax/zip.  Cf. CBTTAPE.org.
  RECEIVE has an INDD option which can accept allocated OMVS files.
  RECEIVE runs only under TSO, and getting to TSO from OMVS is a
  tedious extra step.

o It's a shame that:
  - RECEIVE can't run outside TSO.  JCL EXEC or Rexx ADDRESS LINKMVS
would be great.
  - RECEIVE requires reply to a prompt.
  - IEBCOPY doesn't support OMVS files as PDSU.  SMP/E does
an extra conversion step to make that work.
  - AMATERSE doesn't support OMVS files as archive SYSUT1.
I can cheat this, but support would be lacking.
  - OMVS directories are not supported as STEPLIB catenands.
  - OMVS directories are not supported as SYSEXEC catenands.

o Accommodating site naming standards can be a PITA.

o What about the instructions?  An ASCII README file outside the archive?

o SMP/E?

Any suggestions?
-- gil

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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Robert Longabaugh]

I worked at a telco in the 1980s and the 3033, 3032, and 3033MP were water
cooled.  There was a 3037 PCDU (Power/Cooling Distribution Unit).

I think the 3031 was air cooled.

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 9:57 AM Christopher Y. Blaicher <
cblaic...@syncsort.com> wrote:

> 370/165 and 370/168 were water cooled.
>
> Chris Blaicher
> Technical Architect
> Syncsort, Inc.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Allan Staller
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:43 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?
>
> IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x
> processors.
> I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.
>
>
> HTH,
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Phil Smith III
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Water-cooled 360s?
>
>
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
> sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm
> quite sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled,
> because we had no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI,
> because we couldn't go bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI
> configuration.)
>
>
>
> But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s
> were water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.
>
>
>
> I'm sure somebody here knows.!
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
> or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
> views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
> dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or
> publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized
> representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before
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> other defects.
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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Christopher Y. Blaicher]

370/165 and 370/168 were water cooled.

Chris Blaicher
Technical Architect
Syncsort, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Allan Staller
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Water-cooled 360s?

IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x processors.
I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.


HTH,

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Water-cooled 360s?

https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
 sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm quite 
sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had 
no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go 
bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)



But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s were 
water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.



I'm sure somebody here knows.!


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The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
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may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
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Re: Water-cooled 360s?

[Allan Staller]

IIRC, Water cooling did not appear until (at the earliest) the 308x processors.
I am 99.9% positive there were no water cooled S360 or S370 processors.


HTH,

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Water-cooled 360s?

https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackaday.com%2F2019%2F12%2F08%2Fthe-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cbc093187dd404b4d77c908d77cce7435%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637115098502482032sdata=YqYBIk6jmQ%2Fl5XmLgQtPt751UmpBIryj6WqhUMqzzy4%3Dreserved=0
 sparked a discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm quite 
sure that the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had 
no water. (That was one of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go 
bigger than the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)



But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s were 
water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.



I'm sure somebody here knows.!


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secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
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The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
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may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
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Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:29:17 +, Denis wrote:

>I had the same issue, because the mainframe is not allowed to access anything 
>outside. So git clone does not work.I used git clone on windows, did an ascii 
>ftp upload to a z/OS HFS and then used the cp -F lf -U -M ZIGI.V1R3.PANELS/* 
>//'HLQ.ZIGI.V1R3.PANELS' command to copy. You need to tailor it to suit your 
>needs and do the same for EXEC.The -F lf is required because the records are 
>x'25' delimited. The quote site did not work for me either, I also tried 
>SBSENDEOL=LF, which did not work too.
>
??

How ever did you get there?

The network standard delimiter is x'0D0A'

The Windows delimiter is also x'0D0A'.  Windows FTP makes no change to that.

The UNIX/Linux delimiter is x'0A'.  Their FTP software converts to/from
network standard.

The z/OS delimiter is x'15'.  z/OS FTP converts to/from network standard.

--gil




>Hope it helps, Denis.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Prashant Joshi3 
>To: IBM-MAIN 
>Sent: Mon, Dec 9, 2019 9:36 am
>Subject: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue
>
>Hello all,
>
>I am trying to ftp GIT package from windows to z/OS. Some of the files are
>FTPed ok but many of them lost the record length. Instead of multiline
>files it ftped as single line (single record).
>I opened file in window and those appeared normal text. Some are html, VB
>script code. I used ASCII while doing FTP.
>I also used SITE parm for CTRLF, Record length, blocksize but still no
>help.
>
>Anybody has experienced same issue? any solution?
>
>
>Thank you.
>Prashant Joshi
>
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Water-cooled 360s?

[Phil Smith III]

https://hackaday.com/2019/12/08/the-barn-find-ibm-360-comes-home/ sparked a 
discussion on a private list about air- and water-cooling. I'm quite sure that 
the /44 and /75 we had at UofWaterloo were air-cooled, because we had no water. 
(That was one of the motivations for VM SSI, because we couldn't go bigger than 
the 4300s: we had four 4341s in an SSI configuration.)

 

But nobody could remember (or find definitive doc) on which, if any, 360s were 
water-cooled. Someone suggested the /91 was.

 

I'm sure somebody here knows.!


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Re: Fw: Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

[Lionel B Dyck]

You may need to convert the file from unix (LF ending) to windows (CRLF
ending) format before you upload.

Notepad++ has that option 

Or

>From windows command line this may work (found via google):  more /P
output_file

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Prashant Joshi3
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

Thank you Lionel, Matt and Denis,

I am trying to ftp IBM z/OS sample plugin file from windows to OMVS (zfs
file) and it received distorted.

I tried copying as suggested by Denis but no help yet.
here is a sample file that I am trying to upload

Files in question are Java script and Java script map file


Thanks,
Prashant

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Re: Fw: Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

[Prashant Joshi3]

Thank you Lionel, Matt and Denis,

I am trying to ftp IBM z/OS sample plugin file from windows to OMVS (zfs
file) and it received distorted.

I tried copying as suggested by Denis but no help yet.
here is a sample file that I am trying to upload

Files in question are Java script and Java script map file


Thanks,
Prashant

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Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[David Spiegel]

Hi Charles,
What about Macro expansions?
What about dead code?

Regards,
David

On 2019-12-09 11:08, Charles Mills wrote:
> Not a rigorous measurement, but would be easy to write Rexx to scan a series
> of code libraries and count.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:52 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.
>
> How would one measure this?
>
> On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:05:26 + Rupert Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> :>Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?
>
> --
> Binyamin Dissen 
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dissensoftware.comdata=02%7C01%7C%7C6b0848e0c32648dd386f08d77cc2348b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637115045930189184sdata=T3hLqrBQukB6KBHsyCm7XEJaOSXMH2PEFmogaoR1Z0I%3Dreserved=0
>
> Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
>
>
> Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
> you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
>
> I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
> especially those from irresponsible companies.
>
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> .
>


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Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[Charles Mills]

Not a rigorous measurement, but would be easy to write Rexx to scan a series
of code libraries and count.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

How would one measure this?

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:05:26 + Rupert Reynolds 
wrote:

:>Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Jousma, David]

I'm pretty sure I've heard it mentioned that Bill Gates said "Who could ever 
need more than 640K of RAM?"   Haha, how times have changed.

_
Dave Jousma
AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering  

Fifth Third Bank  |  1830 East Paris Ave, SE  |  MD RSCB2H  |  Grand Rapids, MI 
49546
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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

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W dniu 2019-12-09 o 15:56, Burgess, Otto A. pisze:
> Good to know, thanks
>
> Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need 
> to be

Well, not so long ago we discussed whether 1GB is really good choice for 
sandbox z/OS system. The other options were 512MB and .75GB.
Later we increased 1GB to 2GB.
Nowadays I have 16GB ...in my PC, which is old and my new PC waiting for use 
have 32GB. I didn't order anything special, just regular PC.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==

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169.347.928 as at 1 January 2019.

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[R.S.]

W dniu 2019-12-09 o 15:56, Burgess, Otto A. pisze:

Good to know, thanks

Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need to be


Well, not so long ago we discussed whether 1GB is really good choice for 
sandbox z/OS system. The other options were 512MB and .75GB.

Later we increased 1GB to 2GB.
Nowadays I have 16GB ...in my PC, which is old and my new PC waiting for 
use have 32GB. I didn't order anything special, just regular PC.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==

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tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
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mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
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Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, 
NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
01.01.2019 r. wynosi 169.347.928 złotych.

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mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital 
City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
169.347.928 as at 1 January 2019.

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Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[R.S.]

W dniu 2019-12-09 o 11:05, Rupert Reynolds pisze:

Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?

I know first one: NOP

--
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Lodz, Poland




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Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, 
NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
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mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital 
City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
169.347.928 as at 1 January 2019.

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Re: HOW DO I LEAVE IBM-MAIN

[R.S.]

W dniu 2019-12-09 o 14:19, John Dawes pisze:

G'Day,
      Could somebody tell me how I could leave the IBM Main board?

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.

There are two ways. Official method is described in some help (see note 
above).
The other method is quicker: just start offending people here. Or just 
start writing about politics, racist stereotypes, mizoginist crap, etc.


Disclaimer: I'd suggest official method.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




==

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tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) 
tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
karze.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. 
Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, 
NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
01.01.2019 r. wynosi 169.347.928 złotych.

If you are not the addressee of this message:

- let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!),
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law and may be penalised.

mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital 
City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
169.347.928 as at 1 January 2019.

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Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[Charles Mills]

Most coded or most executed?

Most coded across all in-use code, or most coded in recent coding?

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Rupert Reynolds
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?

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Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

[Burgess, Otto A.]

Good to know, thanks

Perhaps IBM is more conservative on the recommendations than they need to be


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

I have successfully IPLed z/OS 2.3 in a 4GB region using zPDT.

Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd
Web:  www.rsmpartners.com
'Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.'

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Richards, Robert B.
Sent: 05 December 2019 14:51
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [IBM-MAIN] A minimum of 8 GB of real memory is required to IPL

  *   For z/OS V2R3 with the IBM z14(tm) (z14) server, a minimum of 8 GB of 
real memory is required to IPL.

Does this statement only apply only to the z14 or all models *after* it?  For 
example, the z14_ZR1 and the z15?

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Re: HOW DO I LEAVE IBM-MAIN

[Beesley, Paul]

Hi John

To SIGNOFF from IBM-MAIN, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the 
following in the body: SIGNOFF IBM-MAIN

Regards and thanks
Paul

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John Dawes
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2019 1:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HOW DO I LEAVE IBM-MAIN

G'Day,
 Could somebody tell me how I could leave the IBM Main board?

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Re: readdir ?

[Lionel B Dyck]

Thank you Paul - just figured that out by more digging 


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Beesley, Paul
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 7:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: readdir ?

For the second stem variables, you have to further qualify them when referring 
to them.

e.g. s.1.1

Working example:
/* REXX */
call syscalls 'ON'
dir = '/etc'
address syscall "readdir (dir) dir1. dir2."
do j = 0 to dir1.0
   say dir1.j
   end
do j = 1 to dir1.0
   say dir2.j.1 dir2.j.2 dir2.j.3 dir2.j.4 dir2.j.5 dir2.j.6 dir2.j.7
   say dir2.j.8 dir2.j.9 dir2.j.10 dir2.j.11 dir2.j.12 dir2.j.13
   end
call syscalls 'OFF'
exit

I don't know without looking in the manual what all the dir2.x.y variables are!

Regards and thanks
Paul

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lionel B Dyck
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2019 12:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: readdir ?

I'm trying to use the readdir command in rexx and it is partially working and 
partially not.



This is what I've tried - both with the d. s. in quotes and not in quotes.
The d. returns data and the s. does not.  The doc implies that s. should return 
statistics info on the respective directory entry from d.



Please advise - I'm sure it is something trivial I'm missing.  I've looked 
around and seen examples like that that work so it could be my old eyes not 
seeing something.



/* rexx */

 dir = '/u/me/git/zigi'

 address syscall 'readdir' dir 'd. s.'

 say d.0 s.0



Thanks in advance



Lionel B. Dyck <
Website:  

 
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.comdata=02%7C01%7Cpaul.beesley%40atos.net%7C923409f8da25473953c608d77ca49451%7C33440fc6b7c7412cbb730e70b0198d5a%7C0%7C0%7C637114918614042492sdata=D5Vao40HYglGiW62pfsV5XpCf%2BNMn2P05atbp%2Fgw%2BWs%3Dreserved=0

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden




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HOW DO I LEAVE IBM-MAIN

[John Dawes]

G'Day,
     Could somebody tell me how I could leave the IBM Main board?  

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Re: readdir ?

[Beesley, Paul]

For the second stem variables, you have to further qualify them when referring 
to them.

e.g. s.1.1

Working example:
/* REXX */
call syscalls 'ON'
dir = '/etc'
address syscall "readdir (dir) dir1. dir2."
do j = 0 to dir1.0
   say dir1.j
   end
do j = 1 to dir1.0
   say dir2.j.1 dir2.j.2 dir2.j.3 dir2.j.4 dir2.j.5 dir2.j.6 dir2.j.7
   say dir2.j.8 dir2.j.9 dir2.j.10 dir2.j.11 dir2.j.12 dir2.j.13
   end
call syscalls 'OFF'
exit

I don't know without looking in the manual what all the dir2.x.y variables are!

Regards and thanks
Paul

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lionel B Dyck
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2019 12:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: readdir ?

I'm trying to use the readdir command in rexx and it is partially working and 
partially not.



This is what I've tried - both with the d. s. in quotes and not in quotes.
The d. returns data and the s. does not.  The doc implies that s. should return 
statistics info on the respective directory entry from d.



Please advise - I'm sure it is something trivial I'm missing.  I've looked 
around and seen examples like that that work so it could be my old eyes not 
seeing something.



/* rexx */

 dir = '/u/me/git/zigi'

 address syscall 'readdir' dir 'd. s.'

 say d.0 s.0



Thanks in advance



Lionel B. Dyck <
Website:  

 
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.comdata=02%7C01%7Cpaul.beesley%40atos.net%7C923409f8da25473953c608d77ca49451%7C33440fc6b7c7412cbb730e70b0198d5a%7C0%7C0%7C637114918614042492sdata=D5Vao40HYglGiW62pfsV5XpCf%2BNMn2P05atbp%2Fgw%2BWs%3Dreserved=0

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
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Atos, Atos Consulting and Canopy The Open Cloud Company are trading names used 
by the Atos group. The following trading entities are registered in England and 
Wales: Atos IT Services UK Limited (registered number 01245534), Atos 
Consulting Limited (registered number 04312380) and Canopy The Open Cloud 
Company Limited (registration number 08011902). The registered office for each 
is at Second Floor, Mid City Place, 71 High Holborn, London, WC1V 6EA.  The VAT 
No. for each is: GB232327983.

This e-mail and the documents attached are confidential and intended solely for 
the addressee, and may contain confidential or privileged information. If you 
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retain it. Please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your 
systems. As emails may be intercepted, amended or lost, they are not secure. 
Atos therefore can accept no liability for any errors or their content. 
Although Atos endeavours to maintain a virus-free network, we do not warrant 
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Re: readdir ?

[Lionel B Dyck]

I did some more testing - thanks to STEMEDIT - and found that the stat's stem.0 
does not have a value but stem.n.0 does


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Steve Horein
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 7:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: readdir ?

Hi Lionel!
The example found here

shows the path enclosed in parens:



subroutine: procedure
junk = syscalls('ON')
parse arg dir

'readdir (dir) dir. stem.'

It is quite possible this example is out of date, but if not...

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 6:37 AM Lionel B Dyck  wrote:

> I'm trying to use the readdir command in rexx and it is partially 
> working and partially not.
>
>
>
> This is what I've tried - both with the d. s. in quotes and not in quotes.
> The d. returns data and the s. does not.  The doc implies that s. 
> should return statistics info on the respective directory entry from d.
>
>
>
> Please advise - I'm sure it is something trivial I'm missing.  I've 
> looked around and seen examples like that that work so it could be my 
> old eyes not seeing something.
>
>
>
> /* rexx */
>
>  dir = '/u/me/git/zigi'
>
>  address syscall 'readdir' dir 'd. s.'
>
>  say d.0 s.0
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
> Lionel B. Dyck <
> Website:   http://www.lbdsoftware.com
>
> "Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is 
> what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John 
> Wooden
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: readdir ?

[Steve Horein]

Hi Lionel!
The example found here

shows the path enclosed in parens:



subroutine: procedure
junk = syscalls('ON')
parse arg dir

'readdir (dir) dir. stem.'

It is quite possible this example is out of date, but if not...

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 6:37 AM Lionel B Dyck  wrote:

> I'm trying to use the readdir command in rexx and it is partially working
> and partially not.
>
>
>
> This is what I've tried - both with the d. s. in quotes and not in quotes.
> The d. returns data and the s. does not.  The doc implies that s. should
> return statistics info on the respective directory entry from d.
>
>
>
> Please advise - I'm sure it is something trivial I'm missing.  I've looked
> around and seen examples like that that work so it could be my old eyes not
> seeing something.
>
>
>
> /* rexx */
>
>  dir = '/u/me/git/zigi'
>
>  address syscall 'readdir' dir 'd. s.'
>
>  say d.0 s.0
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
> Lionel B. Dyck <
> Website:   http://www.lbdsoftware.com
>
> "Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
> you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
>
>
>
>
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Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

[Matt Hogstrom]

Same comment as Lionel except I use sftp 

Matt Hogstrom
PGP key 0F143BC1

> On Dec 9, 2019, at 06:44, Lionel B Dyck  wrote:
> 
> If you are trying to ftp the rocket git distribution then you should be
> ftp'ing it to OMVS and not to z/OS datasets.  If you are trying to work with
> the zigi (z/OS ISPF Git Interface) then again, ftp to OMVS files and use the
> install.sh script to get the files to z/OS for use.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> If not please provide more information on the git package and what you're
> trying to do.
> 
> 
> Lionel B. Dyck <
> Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com
> 
> "Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
> you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
> Prashant Joshi3
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:12 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I am trying to ftp GIT package from windows to z/OS. Some of the files are
> FTPed ok but many of them lost the record length. Instead of multiline files
> it ftped as single line (single record).
> I opened file in window and those appeared normal text. Some are html, VB
> script code. I used ASCII while doing FTP.
> I also used SITE parm for CTRLF, Record length, blocksize but still no help.
> 
> Anybody has experienced same issue? any solution?
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> Prashant Joshi
> 
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readdir ?

[Lionel B Dyck]

I'm trying to use the readdir command in rexx and it is partially working
and partially not.

 

This is what I've tried - both with the d. s. in quotes and not in quotes.
The d. returns data and the s. does not.  The doc implies that s. should
return statistics info on the respective directory entry from d.

 

Please advise - I'm sure it is something trivial I'm missing.  I've looked
around and seen examples like that that work so it could be my old eyes not
seeing something.

 

/* rexx */ 

 dir = '/u/me/git/zigi'   

 address syscall 'readdir' dir 'd. s.'  

 say d.0 s.0

 

Thanks in advance

 

Lionel B. Dyck <
Website:   http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

 


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Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

[Denis]

I had the same issue, because the mainframe is not allowed to access anything 
outside. So git clone does not work.I used git clone on windows, did an ascii 
ftp upload to a z/OS HFS and then used the cp -F lf -U -M ZIGI.V1R3.PANELS/* 
//'HLQ.ZIGI.V1R3.PANELS' command to copy. You need to tailor it to suit your 
needs and do the same for EXEC.The -F lf is required because the records are 
x'25' delimited. The quote site did not work for me either, I also tried 
SBSENDEOL=LF, which did not work too.

Hope it helps, Denis.

-Original Message-
From: Prashant Joshi3 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Mon, Dec 9, 2019 9:36 am
Subject: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

Hello all,

I am trying to ftp GIT package from windows to z/OS. Some of the files are
FTPed ok but many of them lost the record length. Instead of multiline
files it ftped as single line (single record).
I opened file in window and those appeared normal text. Some are html, VB
script code. I used ASCII while doing FTP.
I also used SITE parm for CTRLF, Record length, blocksize but still no
help.

Anybody has experienced same issue? any solution?


Thank you.
Prashant Joshi

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Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)

[scott Ford]

Learning is never a bad thing, the older you are and more experience one
realizes there are a lot of items in this industry to learn...


On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 2:35 AM Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM <
kees.verno...@klm.com> wrote:

> Thanks.
> Again, one is never too old to learn, even at 98.5% of one's mainframe
> career.
>
> Kees.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: 05 December 2019 19:49
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS
> ...)
>
> The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose
> meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the
> iceberg.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Charles Mills 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
>
> "Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any
> hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a
> non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks
> like hex to me.
>
> Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that
> contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The
> industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of
> tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A'
> conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal.
> The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it
> as b'0101 1010'.
>
> "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word
> people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be
> represented in hexadecimal.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote:
>
> >Jeez Gil,
> >
> >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'.
> >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you
> can use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all
> 256, if you accept JCL errors).
> >
> What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character"  Is it
> any
> different from "any character"?  If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word.
>
> I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in:
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm
> ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ...
>
> I visualize a Venn diagram:
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PM-B8kCix2WWZn6q1Vh6voOtKz7viyNw8ESZv-Aq5bojVqDLWvaBjXct5iS4oPcA185iDTfCohjIpNC-fWu8MvNQ0vJb5vItF7ZlPeUEeOIB_Rk1NSMnlSUEcA2ycq7v_x-IB6Ou1uCNNaqzvU_lVHbpYViDMTc7pkBR2V-1ariNB4Q62_cBw66z81wq3M6ETjSNnfRZAbUlNIIg1OgbAvGUWqoQRoVC2oTzmuA-eyYSLt1cxQ-kAgQ9_PqPzxBRQkSnnsVenuXrRUUtLtCiiHJBcoFCfQNaFbnOtqcbQ6Tkes8JvhUlI6P0hwD7aV_YXZjF5S-S5W3uDJ8rdQt87UuMoClaZNHuXjQQtJ1aYAPCa3_4I9TdNxiI-849oi9iSR1kTPUvE4Qh3HbS8welLlsRUUjX6vKhC7yVjGDx8i53KFggUxCu4tLCItjAHHaP/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram
> where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters
> are prohibited.
>
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> Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. 

Re: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

[Lionel B Dyck]

If you are trying to ftp the rocket git distribution then you should be
ftp'ing it to OMVS and not to z/OS datasets.  If you are trying to work with
the zigi (z/OS ISPF Git Interface) then again, ftp to OMVS files and use the
install.sh script to get the files to z/OS for use.

Hope this helps

If not please provide more information on the git package and what you're
trying to do.


Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com

"Worry more about your character than your reputation.  Character is what
you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Prashant Joshi3
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: GIT z/OS - ftp to mainframe - record length issue

Hello all,

I am trying to ftp GIT package from windows to z/OS. Some of the files are
FTPed ok but many of them lost the record length. Instead of multiline files
it ftped as single line (single record).
I opened file in window and those appeared normal text. Some are html, VB
script code. I used ASCII while doing FTP.
I also used SITE parm for CTRLF, Record length, blocksize but still no help.

Anybody has experienced same issue? any solution?


Thank you.
Prashant Joshi

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Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

I suppose IBM has done this, in order to further tune their systems into more 
decimals.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Binyamin Dissen
Sent: 09 December 2019 11:52
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

How would one measure this?

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:05:26 + Rupert Reynolds  wrote:

:>Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
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I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

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Re: Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[Binyamin Dissen]

How would one measure this?

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:05:26 + Rupert Reynolds  wrote:

:>Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

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Most-used instructions? Just for fun.

[Rupert Reynolds]

Has anyone seen a list of the most-used machine instructions?

Rupert

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