Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Steve Thompson]

Having been at a company IBM acquired, we were told that if we could come up 
with a novel way to throw paper into a trash can

Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct 
mistaks 


> On Oct 11, 2020, at 10:39 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
> 
> It was me that said they were pathetic and I stand by that remark. There's a 
> website that has a "stupid patent of the month" which is dominated by IBM.
> 
> Here's a good one! 
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/02/stupid-patent-month-ibm-patents-out-office-email
> 
> A lot of my colleagues are ex IBMers and quite a few of them have their names 
> on patents. A lot of those patents are stupid! Any product feature that they 
> designed
> that was considered novel they lodged a patent request for. They are the 
> first ones to acknowledge that the process was brain-damaged. IBM wanted to 
> use patents
> as bargaining chips.
> 
>> On 2020-10-12 12:27 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
>> Including those like Microsoft and Google.
>> Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
>> of them or cannot make any.
>> 
> 
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[David Crayford]

On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I interviewed 
there)


In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?

If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe! 
Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I etc.
Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to 
Node.js - JavaScript!


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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[David Crayford]

It was me that said they were pathetic and I stand by that remark. 
There's a website that has a "stupid patent of the month" which is 
dominated by IBM.


Here's a good one! 
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/02/stupid-patent-month-ibm-patents-out-office-email


A lot of my colleagues are ex IBMers and quite a few of them have their 
names on patents. A lot of those patents are stupid! Any product feature 
that they designed
that was considered novel they lodged a patent request for. They are the 
first ones to acknowledge that the process was brain-damaged. IBM wanted 
to use patents

as bargaining chips.

On 2020-10-12 12:27 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
of them or cannot make any.



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Re: ALERSERV delete from stimerm exit

[Joseph Reichman]

Seymour mentioned it was the same TCB 
But different RB or more specifically IRB



> On Oct 11, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Binyamin Dissen  
> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:08:54 -0400 Peter Relson  wrote:
> 
> :>>if there is any restriction on deleting an ALET entry
> :>>(ALESERV DELETE) from a STIMERM exit
> 
> :>It is not a "restriction", it is a "does not make sense" situation. It 
> :>goes well beyond "delete".
> 
> :>IRBs (STIMERM exits being one such) do not get control with the access 
> :>list that their "mainline" (the STIMERM issuing code) had.
> :>You cannot use an ALET not on your access list. You cannot delete an ALET 
> :>not on your access list.
> 
> :>If you had tried to reference storage using that ALET while within the 
> :>STIMERM exit you would have gotten a program interrupt.
> 
> Peter,
> 
> I have looked in various manuals and did not find a clear definition of when a
> new "workunit" is created. My assumption from this thread was that an IRB
> created one, but I wonder if there are other occasions. It would not have been
> obvious to me that an IRB would not inherit the workunit of the TCB.
> 
> --
> Binyamin Dissen 
> http://www.dissensoftware.com
> 
> Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
> 
> 
> Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
> you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
> 
> I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
> especially those from irresponsible companies.
> 
> --
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Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

[Wayne Bickerdike]

I'll say it again. In 1979 IBM had very little interest in what was to
become the PC market.

The PC did unify the market somewhat. As a software house we had to provide
solutions for one-off purchases to people who had no clue.

In two years I worked on Apple IIE clone, Altos 8000, Cromemco System 3,
North Star Horizon, Tandy TRS 80.

Not much code was re-usable from platform to platform.

We bailed out just before the IBM PC landed and went back to earning a
crust on mainframe.

Sometimes you can be too early. Bit like tennis. Rod Laver was the GOAT but
he didn't make the motza they do now.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 6:06 AM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 15:50:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>
> >They were forced out in a lawsuit first filed in 1969 that the
> government/IBM settled in early 80’s. I’m not referring to them selling
> their PC business to Lenovo. Read up. It set up MSFT to dominate the PC
> software market. IBM and Microsoft: Antitrust then and now
> >
> Cite?
>
> -- gil
>
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-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: German Tech giant Software AG down after ransomware attack

[Wayne Bickerdike]

Passport and health bills on a company network? That's what happens with a
chancellor from East Germany?

The Stasi would be proud.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 6:13 AM Charles Mills  wrote:

>
> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/software-ag-it-giant-hit-with
> -23-million-ransom-by-clop-ransomware/
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/09/software_ag_ransomware/
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:27 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: German Tech giant Software AG down after ransomware attack
>
>
> https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/german-tech-giant-software-ag-down-
> after-ransomware-attack/
> 
> <
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zdnet
>
> .com%2Fgoogle-amp%2Farticle%2Fgerman-tech-giant-software-ag-down-after-ranso
>
> mware-attack%2F=02%7C01%7CSAG-L%40LISTSERV.UARK.EDU%7C06e63891e48742a75
>
> 67608d86e05dbf5%7C79c742c4e61c4fa5be89a3cb566a80d1%7C0%7C0%7C637380318728260
> 
> 535=tdl3YeGFJwkT2FOzMFwHuudGyjKWhfXlFOmP4Vz9q9s%3D=0>
>
>
>
> I just noticed this.  Did anyone else hear about it?
>
>
>
> Lizette
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Wayne Bickerdike]

Unfortunately, the U.S. patent system creates warped incentives for
emerging software fields like road-safety features. Rather than competing
in a challenging space, some players are seeking broadly-worded patents,
then hope to sit back and extract profits later.

That may be the strategy of the International Business Machine Corp., which
has acquired more U.S. patents than any other company for decades now. This
week, IBM was awarded U.S. Patent No. 10,191,462
,
describing a “Vehicle electronic receptionist.”

IBM likely has the resources to make technology to manage communications
while driving. But the ’462 patent describes nothing of the sort. Instead,
IBM’s patent simply describes a computerized decision-making process.


https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/01/stupid-patent-month-ibms-software-patent-texting-and-driving

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:18 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Did you want them to wait for someone else to patent it and have an
> expensive court battle to invalidate it?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Wayne Bickerdike 
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:14 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> IBM have a patent on the SORTL instruction. I guess they are entitled to do
> that but IMHO what it does is hardly new. How it does it, perhaps.
>
> I wish I had patented run flat tires. It was my idea many years ago.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:14 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> > The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and
> > they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the
> > paten as prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody
> > else from patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.
> >
> > IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> > of David Crayford 
> > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> > railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> > Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> > everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> > bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> > code. They give it away for free.
> >
> > On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > > IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no
> > exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid
> > the groundwork for much of today’s IT.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical
> > information.
> > > We deal with them every day.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call
> > out
> > > BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded
> to.
> > > It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> > > customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good
> > for
> > > 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad
> that
> > > approach is?
> > >
> > > Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain
> why
> > > the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> > > they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> > > know.
> > >
> > > Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't
> use
> > z.
> > > (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> > > You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> > > different.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> > > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > >> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> > >> bigger than 2% to me.
> > >>
> >
> 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Charles Mills]

Hold on, I'll post them here for you in a minute.

"Hack" and "hacker" has always had the two meanings, the white and black hat
meanings.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 4:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Charles, you must've found my creds!  Please dispose of them in a secure
manner. :-) 

You make a good point. And to muddy things further, the AWS user community
seems to use the term 'hack' when referring to techniques to accomplish
things that are completely acceptable and above-board. 

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

I would think one needs to distinguish between AWS infrastructure flaws --
what IBM would call violations of the statement of integrity -- versus dumb
user errors. The pop press is going to call it "an AWS hack" even if it was
because someone left their userid and password behind on a Post-It note on a
table in Denny's.

Of course the two cases can blur somewhat if there are infrastructure
characteristics that make it particularly easy for a user to screw it up.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with,
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just
anecdotal stuff of course

https://www.cbronline.com/news/aws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud

https://tamebay.com/2020/05/amazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-acco
unt-recovery-advice.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10519079/amazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters/

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the
security front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and
access management UG...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.
html?icmpid=docs_iam_console  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder
what an AWS secure key repository and management tools might look like.

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years,
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.


Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or 
>wants
to do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that
Amazon has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of
the need for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.
Microsoft based on my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for
fixes and the equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high
availability better than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Mike Hochee]

Charles, you must've found my creds!  Please dispose of them in a secure 
manner. :-) 

You make a good point. And to muddy things further, the AWS user community 
seems to use the term 'hack' when referring to techniques to accomplish things 
that are completely acceptable and above-board. 

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

I would think one needs to distinguish between AWS infrastructure flaws -- what 
IBM would call violations of the statement of integrity -- versus dumb user 
errors. The pop press is going to call it "an AWS hack" even if it was because 
someone left their userid and password behind on a Post-It note on a table in 
Denny's.

Of course the two cases can blur somewhat if there are infrastructure 
characteristics that make it particularly easy for a user to screw it up.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with, 
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just anecdotal 
stuff of course

https://www.cbronline.com/news/aws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud

https://tamebay.com/2020/05/amazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-acco
unt-recovery-advice.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10519079/amazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters/

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the security 
front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and access 
management UG...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.
html?icmpid=docs_iam_console  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder what 
an AWS secure key repository and management tools might look like.

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years, 
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.


Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or 
>wants
to do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what 
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that Amazon 
has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of the need 
for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.
Microsoft based on my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for 
fixes and the equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high 
availability better than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Charles Mills]

I would think one needs to distinguish between AWS infrastructure flaws --
what IBM would call violations of the statement of integrity -- versus dumb
user errors. The pop press is going to call it "an AWS hack" even if it was
because someone left their userid and password behind on a Post-It note on a
table in Denny's. 

Of course the two cases can blur somewhat if there are infrastructure
characteristics that make it particularly easy for a user to screw it up.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with,
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just
anecdotal stuff of course  

https://www.cbronline.com/news/aws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud 

https://tamebay.com/2020/05/amazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-acco
unt-recovery-advice.html 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10519079/amazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters/ 

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the
security front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and
access management UG...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.
html?icmpid=docs_iam_console  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder
what an AWS secure key repository and management tools might look like.  

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years,
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.


Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or wants
to do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that
Amazon has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of
the need for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.
Microsoft based on my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for
fixes and the equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high
availability better than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Mike Hochee]

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with, 
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just anecdotal 
stuff of course  

https://www.cbronline.com/news/aws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud 

https://tamebay.com/2020/05/amazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-account-recovery-advice.html
 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10519079/amazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters/ 

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the security 
front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and access 
management UG... 
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.html?icmpid=docs_iam_console
  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder what an AWS secure key repository 
and management tools might look like.  

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years, 
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.   

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or wants to 
>do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what 
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that Amazon 
has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of the need 
for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.  Microsoft based on 
my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for fixes and the 
equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high availability better 
than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Seymour J Metz]

Did you want them to wait for someone else to patent it and have an expensive 
court battle to invalidate it?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Wayne Bickerdike 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM have a patent on the SORTL instruction. I guess they are entitled to do
that but IMHO what it does is hardly new. How it does it, perhaps.

I wish I had patented run flat tires. It was my idea many years ago.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:14 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and
> they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the
> paten as prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody
> else from patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.
>
> IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of David Crayford 
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> code. They give it away for free.
>
> On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no
> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid
> the groundwork for much of today’s IT.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical
> information.
> > We deal with them every day.
> >
> > And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call
> out
> > BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
> > It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> > customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good
> for
> > 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
> > approach is?
> >
> > Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
> > the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> > they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> > know.
> >
> > Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use
> z.
> > (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> > You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> > different.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> >> bigger than 2% to me.
> >>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cp3i2g4xxv5xAiOhNSH9asQgAtxabZeedP72s34Yoy97MA2TNpgZziu32XKk2j51vj3MjoslYkPKOMVBdfmKAcrRkVKxyzoNx1chEh1FhL8AWcQRTCiE42bfCYv1oSv6x33vpt3EI6LMjmirQKq9HB5ds4CfTz-I-Br9WAJkn0N_8ol-EGR8zbkpGlT7uQ_on1wTZQz1cvYQ35YWKGGX5qoNYz2VHWbBkuv4cxcyVaFWBrmdYVSDRswyIQybcXkjo3AXzCLg1n-3V84PWF0PgohuVLen_PPSYLGpU0W3-FNPcMwDexPYlKIQ-VMdqJ_WWgZoAr2qOPJ4GXnj0PadbBKgZnNQIiVF-Nh1AkV8iRsRQ-lxzuneKseiVgBSMLEmd-PxYqzfYps5E4CWuaCK8NvZ5vckiQt2FluZBDc3Bg8s9yrv3CXGmkxn1P9NlJzvvAqUvdiD6xXivnfWi7aHSQ/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudwars.co%2Fcloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world%2F
> >> Read up.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> >> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> >> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> >> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> >> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> >> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> >> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> >> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
> >>
> >> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS,
> Azure,
> >> and even GCP.
> >>
> >> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge
> from
> >> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn.
> The
> >> truth is out there.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> >> 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Wayne Bickerdike]

IBM have a patent on the SORTL instruction. I guess they are entitled to do
that but IMHO what it does is hardly new. How it does it, perhaps.

I wish I had patented run flat tires. It was my idea many years ago.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:14 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and
> they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the
> paten as prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody
> else from patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.
>
> IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of David Crayford 
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> code. They give it away for free.
>
> On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no
> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid
> the groundwork for much of today’s IT.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical
> information.
> > We deal with them every day.
> >
> > And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call
> out
> > BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
> > It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> > customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good
> for
> > 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
> > approach is?
> >
> > Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
> > the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> > they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> > know.
> >
> > Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use
> z.
> > (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> > You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> > different.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> >> bigger than 2% to me.
> >>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cp3i2g4xxv5xAiOhNSH9asQgAtxabZeedP72s34Yoy97MA2TNpgZziu32XKk2j51vj3MjoslYkPKOMVBdfmKAcrRkVKxyzoNx1chEh1FhL8AWcQRTCiE42bfCYv1oSv6x33vpt3EI6LMjmirQKq9HB5ds4CfTz-I-Br9WAJkn0N_8ol-EGR8zbkpGlT7uQ_on1wTZQz1cvYQ35YWKGGX5qoNYz2VHWbBkuv4cxcyVaFWBrmdYVSDRswyIQybcXkjo3AXzCLg1n-3V84PWF0PgohuVLen_PPSYLGpU0W3-FNPcMwDexPYlKIQ-VMdqJ_WWgZoAr2qOPJ4GXnj0PadbBKgZnNQIiVF-Nh1AkV8iRsRQ-lxzuneKseiVgBSMLEmd-PxYqzfYps5E4CWuaCK8NvZ5vckiQt2FluZBDc3Bg8s9yrv3CXGmkxn1P9NlJzvvAqUvdiD6xXivnfWi7aHSQ/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudwars.co%2Fcloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world%2F
> >> Read up.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> >> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> >> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> >> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> >> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> >> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> >> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> >> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
> >>
> >> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS,
> Azure,
> >> and even GCP.
> >>
> >> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge
> from
> >> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn.
> The
> >> truth is out there.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> >> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
> >> the
> >>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
> >> do.
> >>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
> >> companies
> >>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to
> commoditization.
> 

Re: Does SAS support LE modules in the CALL MODULE statement?

[Attila Fogarasi]

See http://support.sas.com/kb/57/207.html for a rather old hotfix to allow
LE to be called from SAS without abending ... would expect it to be in the
base by now.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:07 AM Binyamin Dissen 
wrote:

> Does SAS support LE modules in the CALL MODULE statement?
>
> I have been searching the doc and see no reference to LE.
>
>  Is it possible that such subroutines are not supported?
>
> --
> Binyamin Dissen 
> http://www.dissensoftware.com
>
> Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel
>
>
> Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
> you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.
>
> I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
> especially those from irresponsible companies.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Group Capacity

[Roger Lowe]

On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:29:19 +, Richards, Robert B. 
 wrote:

>I am trying to define Group Capacity on a z14_ZR1 and am having trouble. The 
>only group there is .
>
>I had no trouble when using a previous HMC to define groups for a zEC12.
>
>IIRC, I define the group and the capacity limit, then I assign the group name 
>to the activation profile "processor" tab. Now, I don't see where to the 
>define the new group!
>
>HMC  version is 2.14.1
>
"Operational Customization" --> "Customize/Delete Activation Profiles"
Scroll down and find the name called "Default" and with a Type of "Group" and a 
Profile Description of "This is the DEFAULT Group Profile"
Tick the check box for that one and click on "Customize Profile"
Fill in the various fields, as required, on the next window and then click SAVE
Go back to "Customize/Delete Activation Profiles"
Now select the Image Profile that you want to assign the newly created Group 
Capacity Profile to
In the Processor tab of the Image Profile, type in the Group Capacity Profile 
name

Roger

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Clark Morris]

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in
bit.listserv.ibm-main computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or wants to 
>do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea
of what cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also
suspect that Amazon has all of their computing on their cloud and is
very well aware of the need for high security and has worked very hard
to achieve it.  Microsoft based on my experience with their Knowledge
Center (repository for fixes and the equivalent of PTF cover letters)
seems to understand high availability better than IBM based on
postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris  

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Re: German Tech giant Software AG down after ransomware attack

[Charles Mills]

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/software-ag-it-giant-hit-with
-23-million-ransom-by-clop-ransomware/ 
https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/09/software_ag_ransomware/ 

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:27 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: German Tech giant Software AG down after ransomware attack

https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/german-tech-giant-software-ag-down-
after-ransomware-attack/
 

 

I just noticed this.  Did anyone else hear about it?

 

Lizette

 


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Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 15:50:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:

>They were forced out in a lawsuit first filed in 1969 that the government/IBM 
>settled in early 80’s. I’m not referring to them selling their PC business to 
>Lenovo. Read up. It set up MSFT to dominate the PC software market. IBM and 
>Microsoft: Antitrust then and now 
>  
Cite?

-- gil

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German Tech giant Software AG down after ransomware attack

[Lizette Koehler]

https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/german-tech-giant-software-ag-down-
after-ransomware-attack/
 

 

I just noticed this.  Did anyone else hear about it?

 

Lizette

 


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Re: PCOMM

[Steve Beaver]

I found where I could use the keyboard mapping to do edit-copy and edit-paste.  
IBM or HCL finally fixed it in V14

Sent from my iPhone

I promise you I can’t type or
Spell on any smartphone 

> On Oct 11, 2020, at 13:11, Rod  wrote:
> 
> In more recent versions of PCOMM, to autocopy to clipboard a selected area 
> of text:
> 
> Settings / Edit / CutCopy / Autocopy check box:
> 
> "Autocopy
> This option enables you to automatically copy the selected text to the 
> clipboard.
> After you mark an area on the screen, the selected text is automatically 
> copied to the clipboard. When an existing selected area is moved to another 
> screen area, the text inside the new selected area is automatically copied to 
> the clipboard."
> 
> - --
> Rod,  UK
> 
> --
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Re: ALERSERV delete from stimerm exit

[Binyamin Dissen]

On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:08:54 -0400 Peter Relson  wrote:

:>>if there is any restriction on deleting an ALET entry
:>>(ALESERV DELETE) from a STIMERM exit

:>It is not a "restriction", it is a "does not make sense" situation. It 
:>goes well beyond "delete".

:>IRBs (STIMERM exits being one such) do not get control with the access 
:>list that their "mainline" (the STIMERM issuing code) had.
:>You cannot use an ALET not on your access list. You cannot delete an ALET 
:>not on your access list.

:>If you had tried to reference storage using that ALET while within the 
:>STIMERM exit you would have gotten a program interrupt.

Peter,

I have looked in various manuals and did not find a clear definition of when a
new "workunit" is created. My assumption from this thread was that an IRB
created one, but I wonder if there are other occasions. It would not have been
obvious to me that an IRB would not inherit the workunit of the TCB.

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Seymour J Metz]

The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and 
they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the paten as 
prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody else from 
patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.

IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Crayford 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
code. They give it away for free.

On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
> groundwork for much of today’s IT.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
> We deal with them every day.
>
> And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
> BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
> It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
> 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
> approach is?
>
> Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
> the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> know.
>
> Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
> (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> different.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
>> bigger than 2% to me.
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cp3i2g4xxv5xAiOhNSH9asQgAtxabZeedP72s34Yoy97MA2TNpgZziu32XKk2j51vj3MjoslYkPKOMVBdfmKAcrRkVKxyzoNx1chEh1FhL8AWcQRTCiE42bfCYv1oSv6x33vpt3EI6LMjmirQKq9HB5ds4CfTz-I-Br9WAJkn0N_8ol-EGR8zbkpGlT7uQ_on1wTZQz1cvYQ35YWKGGX5qoNYz2VHWbBkuv4cxcyVaFWBrmdYVSDRswyIQybcXkjo3AXzCLg1n-3V84PWF0PgohuVLen_PPSYLGpU0W3-FNPcMwDexPYlKIQ-VMdqJ_WWgZoAr2qOPJ4GXnj0PadbBKgZnNQIiVF-Nh1AkV8iRsRQ-lxzuneKseiVgBSMLEmd-PxYqzfYps5E4CWuaCK8NvZ5vckiQt2FluZBDc3Bg8s9yrv3CXGmkxn1P9NlJzvvAqUvdiD6xXivnfWi7aHSQ/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudwars.co%2Fcloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world%2F
>> Read up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
>> the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
>> do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
>> companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
>> slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>>
>> 

Re: PCOMM

[Rod]

In more recent versions of PCOMM, to autocopy to clipboard a selected area of 
text:
 
Settings / Edit / CutCopy / Autocopy check box:
 
"Autocopy
This option enables you to automatically copy the selected text to the 
clipboard.
After you mark an area on the screen, the selected text is automatically copied 
to the clipboard. When an existing selected area is moved to another screen 
area, the text inside the new selected area is automatically copied to the 
clipboard."
 
- --
Rod,  UK

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Does SAS support LE modules in the CALL MODULE statement?

[Binyamin Dissen]

Does SAS support LE modules in the CALL MODULE statement? 

I have been searching the doc and see no reference to LE.

 Is it possible that such subroutines are not supported?

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

[Seymour J Metz]

Was there a time machine involved? The sold out to Lenovo in 2005, and by that 
time they were losing market share.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

They were forced out in a lawsuit first filed in 1969 that the government/IBM 
settled in early 80’s. I’m not referring to them selling their PC business to 
Lenovo. Read up. It set up MSFT to dominate the PC software market. IBM and 
Microsoft: Antitrust then and now

|
|
|
|   ||

   |

  |
|
||
IBM and Microsoft: Antitrust then and now

The giant's insistence on "conduct remedies" harks back to the 1980s, when IBM 
ended its antitrust skirmish by vowing to change its monopolistic ways.
  |   |

  |

  |





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:33 AM, Robin Vowels  wrote:

On 2020-10-12 00:57, Bill Johnson wrote:
> So market cap is now the determining factor for the best companies?
> Here’s the 1980 list of market cap leaders. Had IBM not been forced
> out of the PC market, I’d bet IBM would still be at or near the top,
> and MSFT wouldn’t be.

"Forced out". I think not.
IBM gave up that market.

> 1980:
>
> 1. IBM
> 2. AT
> 3. Exxon
> 4. Standard Oil of Indiana
> 5. Schlumberger
> 6. Shell Oil
> 7. Mobil
> 8. Standard Oil of California
> 9. Atlantic Richfield
> 10. GE

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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
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--
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Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

[Seymour J Metz]

The sale to Lenovo was in 2005; the consent decree was by then irrelevant. IBM 
was losing market share.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

I’m not talking about the exit from selling PC’s. (Lenovo dale) I’m talking 
about the lawsuit the US government filed in 1969 and was settled in the early 
80’s that forced IBM out of the PC market (software & hardware) that they 
dominated at the time.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:09 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

W dniu 11.10.2020 o 16:36, Robin Vowels pisze:
> On 2020-10-12 00:57, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> So market cap is now the determining factor for the best companies?
>> Here’s the 1980 list of market cap leaders. Had IBM not been forced
>> out of the PC market, I’d bet IBM would still be at or near the top,
>> and MSFT wouldn’t be.
>
> "Forced out". I think not.
> IBM gave up that market.

IBM usually exit from "commodity" markets. Is it good idea - I don't
know, but they simply don't want to compete on retail sales, promotions
and other.
And honestly - what about PC parket? Who is the winner?
When you go to the shopping mall you will find - yes, still Lenovo, HP,
some Dell. Toshiba. But also a lot of Asus, MSI, Huawei, Hiro, Gigabyte,
Acer, Kiano, Terra, Samsung, LG, DreamMachines and other companies. I'm
sorry, but this business went to Eastern Asia. Like steel and shipyard.
Oh, BTW - my Dell machine came from Łódź (this is my city, I visited the
factory). Maybe it's not far east, but it is still cheaper than Ireland.

Of course, IBM also exited from office printers (20+ years ago -
Lexmark), big printing systems (sold to Ricoh), ATMs, networking
hardware, x Series servers (also sold to Lenovo), PCB (Celestica), IC
(Global Foundries), etc.
In the past they also exited from 9 track reel tapes, punched card
equipment...


Disclaimer: I'm neither IBM fanboy nor IBM antagonist. I don't know what
to think about the news about split. I just observe.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





==

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January 2020.

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Seymour J Metz]

No, but the patent *process* is. In principle the USPTO should not issue a 
patent obvious to practitioners or that is prior art; in reality, it happens 
all the time.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
R.S. 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 12:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
of them or cannot make any.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:11, Bill Johnson pisze:
> So everything IBM says/does are lies and pathetic?The comedy here is worth 
> its weight in gold.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:08 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> code. They give it away for free.
>
> On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
>> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
>> groundwork for much of today’s IT.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
>> We deal with them every day.
>>
>> And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
>> BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
>> It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
>> customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
>> 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
>> approach is?
>>
>> Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
>> the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
>> they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
>> know.
>>
>> Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
>> (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
>> You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
>> different.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
>>> bigger than 2% to me.
>>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1E6yv0YYCCY-AkJdqS9-AsIYtOgIwHIy4Ow8og6r7HPwX_hufFwUCDANP0-vIRezLVxsaG1YoPyeAQn2_QK8FKcWMYJWHsa2XyruwkNWE8a8cqGD4iJC-nVfANSKQJ7Z8SQKB9ccfRD_tk-R30C6iyI0lg5kDpmzHl1m8jNbbTO_3pu7_mcNCTt8Mp01_HMPe5c5U-foKna2HtHA-l-Sy28EBz6vlnpyjQ4I0PQ6GxyL7_ZgXoFabHiBxOuoQ5kXqy2Mr-_2n8jstnH37c_7YGZsGllm5FbqdTGi-yQLSJdKnRneoLhDda4bll7yk3eYlYQF6-O685Wh6Nra6i2M2VHe_2urtsnkCCpa6D1TuMd1_aqoBLrv9k3AfRLpIUuo06PZvOgEd-ZvHQkPQmn-8Slv3xUpwy3Ehy6IAiKpFPGAyVi6iVY6gPUdblMcAreglzq4SFK2gOf7a4Bnus1jTLQ/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudwars.co%2Fcloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world%2F
>>> Read up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>>
>>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>>> and even GCP.
>>>
>>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>>> truth is out there.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
 I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
>>> the
 lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
>>> do.
 Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
>>> companies
 are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
 Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

And yes, we had battery and generator backup. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:18 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

Who said it has anything to do with the mainframe? The point was that 
IBM's cloud is not great. Mainframes don't, wont and never will have a 
role in public clouds. They are for running legacy applications. Maybe 
hybrid clouds may adopt some z? I certainly hope so. Anything that 
modernizes the platform to give it more life is a good thing for all of us.

And I would love to know what pharmacy has 99.999+ uptime? Do they 
typically run a UPS and generators in case of a power cut? What about 
network redundancy and other fail-overs in the store?


On 2020-10-11 9:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
> didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
> them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
> pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
> your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
> record compromised.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
> as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
> are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
> huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
>>> Of Bill Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>>
>>> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
>>> IBM is enterprise.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>>
>>> 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

I worked for a health care company. Pharmacies in hospitals run 24 by 7. 
Walgreens runs 24 by 7 in many markets. So does CVS & Rite Aid. If they can’t 
access your health records in real time at nearly 100% of the time, you might 
die. And, if your info is hacked or compromised, each instance can be fined at 
10k each. (in Ohio) Hear of HIPAA? Also, health care providers need access to 
your records in real time to prevent drug interaction issues. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:18 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

Who said it has anything to do with the mainframe? The point was that 
IBM's cloud is not great. Mainframes don't, wont and never will have a 
role in public clouds. They are for running legacy applications. Maybe 
hybrid clouds may adopt some z? I certainly hope so. Anything that 
modernizes the platform to give it more life is a good thing for all of us.

And I would love to know what pharmacy has 99.999+ uptime? Do they 
typically run a UPS and generators in case of a power cut? What about 
network redundancy and other fail-overs in the store?


On 2020-10-11 9:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
> didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
> them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
> pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
> your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
> record compromised.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
> as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
> are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
> huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>>
>>> Peter

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

True. Thanks.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:36 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Bill,
I know that. I just complemented your answer.

BTW: I also wasn't the person wrote about IBM was not forced out.
However I believe you also knew that.
Fortunately listserv is written, so everyone may read the history and 
re-read if needed.


Regards
-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:27, Bill Johnson pisze:
> I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
> wrote:
>
> Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
> Including those like Microsoft and Google.
> Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
> of them or cannot make any.
>



==

Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości:

- powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!),
- usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś 
na dysku).
Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać 
tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) 
tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
karze.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. 
Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, 
NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[R.S.]

Bill,
I know that. I just complemented your answer.

BTW: I also wasn't the person wrote about IBM was not forced out.
However I believe you also knew that.
Fortunately listserv is written, so everyone may read the history and 
re-read if needed.



Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:27, Bill Johnson pisze:

I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
of them or cannot make any.





==

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents. 
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few 
of them or cannot make any.

-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:11, Bill Johnson pisze:
> So everything IBM says/does are lies and pathetic?The comedy here is worth 
> its weight in gold.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:08 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> code. They give it away for free.
>
> On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
>> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
>> groundwork for much of today’s IT.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
>> We deal with them every day.
>>
>> And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
>> BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
>> It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
>> customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
>> 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
>> approach is?
>>
>> Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
>> the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
>> they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
>> know.
>>
>> Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
>> (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
>> You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
>> different.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
>>> bigger than 2% to me.
>>> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
>>> Read up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>>
>>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>>> and even GCP.
>>>
>>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>>> truth is out there.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
 I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
>>> the
 lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
>>> do.
 Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
>>> companies
 are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
 Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
>>> slow.
 Even with the government contract.


>>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/

 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


 On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

 Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
 building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

 Peter

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
 Of Bill Johnson
 Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

 2 completely different 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[R.S.]

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents. 
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few 
of them or cannot make any.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:11, Bill Johnson pisze:

So everything IBM says/does are lies and pathetic?The comedy here is worth its 
weight in gold.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:08 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
code. They give it away for free.

On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
groundwork for much of today’s IT.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
bigger than 2% to me.
https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
Read up.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need

the

lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to

do.

Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller

companies

are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to

slow.

Even with the government contract.



https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 

wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's

at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$

and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and

then

notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

Yeah, been hearing the imminent demise stories since the 1990’s. Yet, IBM keeps 
pumping out world class mainframes. And still processes the majority of 
important transactions.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:18 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

Who said it has anything to do with the mainframe? The point was that 
IBM's cloud is not great. Mainframes don't, wont and never will have a 
role in public clouds. They are for running legacy applications. Maybe 
hybrid clouds may adopt some z? I certainly hope so. Anything that 
modernizes the platform to give it more life is a good thing for all of us.

And I would love to know what pharmacy has 99.999+ uptime? Do they 
typically run a UPS and generators in case of a power cut? What about 
network redundancy and other fail-overs in the store?


On 2020-10-11 9:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
> didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
> them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
> pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
> your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
> record compromised.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
> as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
> are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
> huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
>>> Of Bill Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>>
>>> 2 completely different markets. AZURE 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I interviewed 
there) or their transactions are processed by a bank, which uses the mainframe. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.

On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
> and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established 
> zEnterprise strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, 
> etc., with what I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and 
> web services environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a 
> complement, where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of 
> cloud and web service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.
>
> To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
> nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
> might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
> 10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
> transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
> many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the 
> cloud. Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I 
> thought the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to 
> cloud service providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of 
> security and processing integrity.
>
> I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for 
> any synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and 
> cloud computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue 
> to compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more 
> and more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.
>
> I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
> by someone only six months on the job.
>
> My nickel's worth.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
> finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
> enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
>> fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
>> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000
>> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the
>> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by
>> taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of
>> z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS,
>> Azure, and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge
>> from the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers.
>> Learn. 

Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

[Bill Johnson]

I’m not talking about the exit from selling PC’s. (Lenovo dale) I’m talking 
about the lawsuit the US government filed in 1969 and was settled in the early 
80’s that forced IBM out of the PC market (software & hardware) that they 
dominated at the time.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:09 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

W dniu 11.10.2020 o 16:36, Robin Vowels pisze:
> On 2020-10-12 00:57, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> So market cap is now the determining factor for the best companies?
>> Here’s the 1980 list of market cap leaders. Had IBM not been forced
>> out of the PC market, I’d bet IBM would still be at or near the top,
>> and MSFT wouldn’t be.
>
> "Forced out". I think not.
> IBM gave up that market.

IBM usually exit from "commodity" markets. Is it good idea - I don't 
know, but they simply don't want to compete on retail sales, promotions 
and other.
And honestly - what about PC parket? Who is the winner?
When you go to the shopping mall you will find - yes, still Lenovo, HP, 
some Dell. Toshiba. But also a lot of Asus, MSI, Huawei, Hiro, Gigabyte, 
Acer, Kiano, Terra, Samsung, LG, DreamMachines and other companies. I'm 
sorry, but this business went to Eastern Asia. Like steel and shipyard.
Oh, BTW - my Dell machine came from Łódź (this is my city, I visited the 
factory). Maybe it's not far east, but it is still cheaper than Ireland.

Of course, IBM also exited from office printers (20+ years ago - 
Lexmark), big printing systems (sold to Ricoh), ATMs, networking 
hardware, x Series servers (also sold to Lenovo), PCB (Celestica), IC 
(Global Foundries), etc.
In the past they also exited from 9 track reel tapes, punched card 
equipment...


Disclaimer: I'm neither IBM fanboy nor IBM antagonist. I don't know what 
to think about the news about split. I just observe.

-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





==

Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości:

- powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!),
- usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś 
na dysku).
Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać 
tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) 
tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
karze.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. 
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NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

So everything IBM says/does are lies and pathetic?The comedy here is worth its 
weight in gold.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:08 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a 
railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google, 
Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so 
everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then 
bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their 
code. They give it away for free.

On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
> groundwork for much of today’s IT.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
> We deal with them every day.
>
> And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
> BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
> It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
> 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
> approach is?
>
> Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
> the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> know.
>
> Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
> (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> different.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
>> bigger than 2% to me.
>> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
>> Read up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
>> the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
>> do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
>> companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
>> slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>>
>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
>>> Of Bill Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>>
>>> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
>>> IBM is enterprise.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 
>> wrote:
>>> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's
>> at
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
>>> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and
>> then
>>> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
>>> 

Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

[R.S.]

W dniu 11.10.2020 o 16:36, Robin Vowels pisze:

On 2020-10-12 00:57, Bill Johnson wrote:

So market cap is now the determining factor for the best companies?
Here’s the 1980 list of market cap leaders. Had IBM not been forced
out of the PC market, I’d bet IBM would still be at or near the top,
and MSFT wouldn’t be.


"Forced out". I think not.
IBM gave up that market.


IBM usually exit from "commodity" markets. Is it good idea - I don't 
know, but they simply don't want to compete on retail sales, promotions 
and other.

And honestly - what about PC parket? Who is the winner?
When you go to the shopping mall you will find - yes, still Lenovo, HP, 
some Dell. Toshiba. But also a lot of Asus, MSI, Huawei, Hiro, Gigabyte, 
Acer, Kiano, Terra, Samsung, LG, DreamMachines and other companies. I'm 
sorry, but this business went to Eastern Asia. Like steel and shipyard.
Oh, BTW - my Dell machine came from Łódź (this is my city, I visited the 
factory). Maybe it's not far east, but it is still cheaper than Ireland.


Of course, IBM also exited from office printers (20+ years ago - 
Lexmark), big printing systems (sold to Ricoh), ATMs, networking 
hardware, x Series servers (also sold to Lenovo), PCB (Celestica), IC 
(Global Foundries), etc.
In the past they also exited from 9 track reel tapes, punched card 
equipment...



Disclaimer: I'm neither IBM fanboy nor IBM antagonist. I don't know what 
to think about the news about split. I just observe.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

New IBM mainframe can process 1 trillion web transactions a day 
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
New IBM mainframe can process 1 trillion web transactions a day
 
IBM is out with its newest mainframe - z15. Yahoo Finance sat down with Tom 
Rosamilia, the Senior Vice President of IBM Systems and Chairman of IBM North 
America to hear how it'll change the industry.
  |   |

  |

  |

  





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.

On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
> and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established 
> zEnterprise strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, 
> etc., with what I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and 
> web services environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a 
> complement, where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of 
> cloud and web service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.
>
> To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
> nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
> might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
> 10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
> transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
> many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the 
> cloud. Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I 
> thought the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to 
> cloud service providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of 
> security and processing integrity.
>
> I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for 
> any synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and 
> cloud computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue 
> to compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more 
> and more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.
>
> I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
> by someone only six months on the job.
>
> My nickel's worth.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
> finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
> enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
>> fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
>> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000
>> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the
>> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by
>> taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of
>> z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

IBM z15 release shines light on how much is still being run on a mainframe | 
ZDNet 
  
|  
|   |  
IBM z15 release shines light on how much is still being run on a mainframe | 
ZDNet
 

  |   |

  |

  





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.

On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
> and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established 
> zEnterprise strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, 
> etc., with what I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and 
> web services environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a 
> complement, where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of 
> cloud and web service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.
>
> To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
> nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
> might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
> 10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
> transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
> many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the 
> cloud. Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I 
> thought the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to 
> cloud service providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of 
> security and processing integrity.
>
> I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for 
> any synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and 
> cloud computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue 
> to compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more 
> and more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.
>
> I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
> by someone only six months on the job.
>
> My nickel's worth.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
> finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
> enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
>> fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
>> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000
>> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the
>> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by
>> taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of
>> z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS,
>> Azure, and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge
>> from the real world, not SHARE 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

PayPal’s mainframe is here in Ohio. Or was when I interviewed there. Apple has 
em too. Why on Earth Is IBM Still Making Mainframes? | WIRED 
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
Why on Earth Is IBM Still Making Mainframes? | WIRED
 
On Tuesday, IBM launched the z13 mainframe, which it bills as the first 
mainframe specifically designed to accommodate the booming mobile app economy.
  |   |

  |

  |

  



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.

On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
> and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established 
> zEnterprise strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, 
> etc., with what I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and 
> web services environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a 
> complement, where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of 
> cloud and web service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.
>
> To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
> nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
> might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
> 10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
> transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
> many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the 
> cloud. Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I 
> thought the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to 
> cloud service providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of 
> security and processing integrity.
>
> I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for 
> any synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and 
> cloud computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue 
> to compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more 
> and more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.
>
> I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
> by someone only six months on the job.
>
> My nickel's worth.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
> finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
> enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
>> fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
>> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000
>> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the
>> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by
>> taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of
>> z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all 

Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

[Bill Johnson]

They were forced out in a lawsuit first filed in 1969 that the government/IBM 
settled in early 80’s. I’m not referring to them selling their PC business to 
Lenovo. Read up. It set up MSFT to dominate the PC software market. IBM and 
Microsoft: Antitrust then and now 
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
IBM and Microsoft: Antitrust then and now
 
The giant's insistence on "conduct remedies" harks back to the 1980s, when IBM 
ended its antitrust skirmish by vowing to change its monopolistic ways.
  |   |

  |

  |

  



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:33 AM, Robin Vowels  wrote:

On 2020-10-12 00:57, Bill Johnson wrote:
> So market cap is now the determining factor for the best companies?
> Here’s the 1980 list of market cap leaders. Had IBM not been forced
> out of the PC market, I’d bet IBM would still be at or near the top,
> and MSFT wouldn’t be.

"Forced out". I think not.
IBM gave up that market.

> 1980:
> 
> 1. IBM
> 2. AT
> 3. Exxon
> 4. Standard Oil of Indiana
> 5. Schlumberger
> 6. Shell Oil
> 7. Mobil
> 8. Standard Oil of California
> 9. Atlantic Richfield
> 10. GE

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[R.S.]

You are right, but it wasn't just failed implementation. It was blocker 
from legal point of view - both parties wanted to do the business, but 
government law demanded this liability. So, no other attempt of any 
other company (in this business) would be possible.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 17:44, Bill Johnson pisze:

One example of a failed implementation, is hardly representative of anything 
really. I’ve seen hundreds of failed implementations in my 40 years on every 
platform.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:13 AM, R.S.  
wrote:

To complement: AFAIK it is impossible to sign a contract with "full
responsibility" of such cloud provider.
In some cases it is required by govt regulators. I heard about fiasco of
migration to cloud project just because of that.




==

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City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

One example of a failed implementation, is hardly representative of anything 
really. I’ve seen hundreds of failed implementations in my 40 years on every 
platform.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:13 AM, R.S.  
wrote:

To complement: AFAIK it is impossible to sign a contract with "full 
responsibility" of such cloud provider.
In some cases it is required by govt regulators. I heard about fiasco of 
migration to cloud project just because of that.

-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 15:41, Bill Johnson pisze:
> Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
> didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
> them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
> pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
> your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
> record compromised.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
> as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
> are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
> huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
>>> Of Bill Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>>
>>> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
>>> IBM is enterprise.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
>>> 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

IBM does indeed process 90% of credit card transactions. Maybe not at POS, but 
at the backend. (POS- point of sale)


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

A fair question. That's based on working with all of the top-ten
processors, most or all of whom still use NonStop.

Compaq bought Tandem, HP bought Compaq, then when HP split into HP and HPE,
the NonStop business went to HPE.

Yes, NonStop is way down from its peak. Credit card processing seems to be
one of the places where it's remained strong. But it's still serious enough
that HP/HPE (not sure which at the time) recently moved the OS from Itanium
to x86 hardware, which was surely a big effort. Of course Itanium was going
away, but my point is that if there wasn't still a real business there,
that would have been an ideal time to kill it.

There are NonStop user groups around the world still, and with the
pandemic, they're going virtual. If you're interested, check one out. Good
folks, talking about stuff every bit as arcane as what we see on this list!

An observation: it seems to me that the smaller platforms do better with
user groups. I'm guessing this is because if you have, say, a Windows
problem, there are millions of other folks with the same problem, so
Googling the problem gets you a solution. If you have a problem with
something on a less commonly used platform, a user group is a better bet,
although of course lists like this one are also great! So that builds more
of a sense of community, which lets user groups thrive. Not that there
aren't tons of Windows user groups, but from what I've seen they're run by
a couple of die-hards and most of the rest don't participate much, don't
show up for many meetings, etc. Maybe that's just my experience.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 10:10 AM R.S. 
wrote:

> W dniu 09.10.2020 o 04:25, zMan pisze:
> > Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most
> processors
> > are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
> > platforms.
>
> Can you provide any source of this statement?
>  From my limited knowledge it seems NonStop is declining since it was
> merged with Compaq. Or maybe it was merge with HP.
>
> BTW: Nowadays "distributed" no longer means Sun, HP-UX, or Tandem (not
> to mention DEC with Ultrix and VMS). It is just Intel/AMD with Windows
> or Linux. And universal solution for any issue is to add more and more
> servers.
> The only platform which is not in the niche is IBM System p, but even
> here AS/400 line is declining, and AIX loses to Linux.
>

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[zMan]

A fair question. That's based on working with all of the top-ten
processors, most or all of whom still use NonStop.

Compaq bought Tandem, HP bought Compaq, then when HP split into HP and HPE,
the NonStop business went to HPE.

Yes, NonStop is way down from its peak. Credit card processing seems to be
one of the places where it's remained strong. But it's still serious enough
that HP/HPE (not sure which at the time) recently moved the OS from Itanium
to x86 hardware, which was surely a big effort. Of course Itanium was going
away, but my point is that if there wasn't still a real business there,
that would have been an ideal time to kill it.

There are NonStop user groups around the world still, and with the
pandemic, they're going virtual. If you're interested, check one out. Good
folks, talking about stuff every bit as arcane as what we see on this list!

An observation: it seems to me that the smaller platforms do better with
user groups. I'm guessing this is because if you have, say, a Windows
problem, there are millions of other folks with the same problem, so
Googling the problem gets you a solution. If you have a problem with
something on a less commonly used platform, a user group is a better bet,
although of course lists like this one are also great! So that builds more
of a sense of community, which lets user groups thrive. Not that there
aren't tons of Windows user groups, but from what I've seen they're run by
a couple of die-hards and most of the rest don't participate much, don't
show up for many meetings, etc. Maybe that's just my experience.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 10:10 AM R.S. 
wrote:

> W dniu 09.10.2020 o 04:25, zMan pisze:
> > Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most
> processors
> > are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
> > platforms.
>
> Can you provide any source of this statement?
>  From my limited knowledge it seems NonStop is declining since it was
> merged with Compaq. Or maybe it was merge with HP.
>
> BTW: Nowadays "distributed" no longer means Sun, HP-UX, or Tandem (not
> to mention DEC with Ultrix and VMS). It is just Intel/AMD with Windows
> or Linux. And universal solution for any issue is to add more and more
> servers.
> The only platform which is not in the niche is IBM System p, but even
> here AS/400 line is declining, and AIX loses to Linux.
>

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Re: PC market (was IBM splitting into two companies)

[Robin Vowels]

On 2020-10-12 00:57, Bill Johnson wrote:

So market cap is now the determining factor for the best companies?
Here’s the 1980 list of market cap leaders. Had IBM not been forced
out of the PC market, I’d bet IBM would still be at or near the top,
and MSFT wouldn’t be.


"Forced out". I think not.
IBM gave up that market.


1980:

1. IBM
2. AT
3. Exxon
4. Standard Oil of Indiana
5. Schlumberger
6. Shell Oil
7. Mobil
8. Standard Oil of California
9. Atlantic Richfield
10. GE


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Group Capacity

[Richards, Robert B.]

I am trying to define Group Capacity on a z14_ZR1 and am having trouble. The 
only group there is .

I had no trouble when using a previous HMC to define groups for a zEC12.

IIRC, I define the group and the capacity limit, then I assign the group name 
to the activation profile "processor" tab. Now, I don't see where to the define 
the new group!

HMC  version is 2.14.1

Bob

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[R.S.]

W dniu 09.10.2020 o 04:25, zMan pisze:

Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most processors
are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
platforms.


Can you provide any source of this statement?
From my limited knowledge it seems NonStop is declining since it was 
merged with Compaq. Or maybe it was merge with HP.


BTW: Nowadays "distributed" no longer means Sun, HP-UX, or Tandem (not 
to mention DEC with Ultrix and VMS). It is just Intel/AMD with Windows 
or Linux. And universal solution for any issue is to add more and more 
servers.
The only platform which is not in the niche is IBM System p, but even 
here AS/400 line is declining, and AIX loses to Linux.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





==

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tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) 
tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
karze.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. 
Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, 
NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych.

If you are not the addressee of this message:

- let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!),
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mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital 
City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020.

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

So market cap is now the determining factor for the best companies? Here’s the 
1980 list of market cap leaders. Had IBM not been forced out of the PC market, 
I’d bet IBM would still be at or near the top, and MSFT wouldn’t be.
1980:

1. IBM
2. AT
3. Exxon
4. Standard Oil of Indiana
5. Schlumberger
6. Shell Oil
7. Mobil
8. Standard Oil of California
9. Atlantic Richfield
10. GE


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 2:21 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 2020-10-11 11:18 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
> At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
> going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
> microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
> ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
> to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.
>
> The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.

Just look at the market cap of Netflix vs IBM!

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[R.S.]

To complement: AFAIK it is impossible to sign a contract with "full 
responsibility" of such cloud provider.
In some cases it is required by govt regulators. I heard about fiasco of 
migration to cloud project just because of that.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 15:41, Bill Johnson pisze:

Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
record compromised.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly profitable. 
Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and crashes of 
consumer cloud services.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
Even with the government contract.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
26% of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
Cloud Market Share – a Look at 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[David Crayford]

Who said it has anything to do with the mainframe? The point was that 
IBM's cloud is not great. Mainframes don't, wont and never will have a 
role in public clouds. They are for running legacy applications. Maybe 
hybrid clouds may adopt some z? I certainly hope so. Anything that 
modernizes the platform to give it more life is a good thing for all of us.


And I would love to know what pharmacy has 99.999+ uptime? Do they 
typically run a UPS and generators in case of a power cut? What about 
network redundancy and other fail-overs in the store?



On 2020-10-11 9:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
record compromised.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly profitable. 
Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and crashes of 
consumer cloud services.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
Even with the government contract.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
26% of the SaaS 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[David Crayford]

IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a 
railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google, 
Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so 
everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then 
bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their 
code. They give it away for free.


On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
groundwork for much of today’s IT.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
bigger than 2% to me.
https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
Read up.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need

the

lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to

do.

Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller

companies

are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to

slow.

Even with the government contract.



https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 

wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's

at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$

and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and

then

notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
26% of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020

|
|
|
|  |    |

     |

   |
|
|  |
Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020

Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
record compromised.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such 
as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, 
are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a 
huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1] 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2] 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
> market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
> processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
> companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
> information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
> Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly 
> profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and 
> crashes of consumer cloud services.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
> and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
> truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>> Even with the government contract.
>>
>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
>> Of Bill Johnson
>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>
>> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
>> IBM is enterprise.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
>> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
>> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
>> 26% of the SaaS market".
>> So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
>> player.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
>>> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>>>
>>> |
>>> |
>>> |
>>> |  |    |
>>>
>>>      |
>>>
>>>    |
>>> |
>>> |  |
>>> Cloud Market Share 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

Bingo.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:10 AM, Mike Hochee  wrote:

Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established zEnterprise 
strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, etc., with what 
I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and web services 
environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a complement, 
where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of cloud and web 
service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.  

To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the cloud. 
Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I thought 
the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to cloud service 
providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of security and 
processing integrity. 

I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for any 
synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and cloud 
computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue to 
compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more and 
more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.  

I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
by someone only six months on the job.  

My nickel's worth. 

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Crayford
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't recovered 
from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no longer trusts IBM 
and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
> market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
> processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
> companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
> information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
> Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly 
> profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and 
> crashes of consumer cloud services.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the 
> fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't 
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE 
> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 
> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the 
> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by 
> taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of 
> z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, 
> Azure, and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge 
> from the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. 
> Learn. The truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson < 
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t 
>> need the lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need 
>> to do.
>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller 
>> companies are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to 
>> commoditization.
>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>> Even with 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
groundwork for much of today’s IT.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> bigger than 2% to me.
> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
> Read up.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
> and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
> truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
> the
> > lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
> do.
> > Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
> companies
> > are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> > Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
> slow.
> > Even with the government contract.
> >
> >
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> > 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> > building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> > IBM is enterprise.
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's
> at
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> > and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and
> then
> > notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> > 26% of the SaaS market".
> > So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> > player.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> > > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> > >
> > > |
> > > |
> > > |
> > > |  |    |
> > >
> > >    |
> > >
> > >  |
> > > |
> > > |  |
> > > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> > >
> > > Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
> > >compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the
> > >leading cloud  providers.
> > >  |  |
> > 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[David Crayford]

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.


On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:

Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established zEnterprise 
strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, etc., with what 
I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and web services 
environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a complement, 
where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of cloud and web 
service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.

To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the cloud. 
Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I thought 
the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to cloud service 
providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of security and 
processing integrity.

I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for any 
synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and cloud 
computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue to 
compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more and 
more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.

I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
by someone only six months on the job.

My nickel's worth.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Crayford
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't recovered 
from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no longer trusts IBM 
and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly profitable. 
Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and crashes of 
consumer cloud services.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000
per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the
planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by
taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of
z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS,
Azure, and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge
from the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers.
Learn. The truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t
need the lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to 
do.
Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
companies are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to 
commoditization.
Because it’s 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

IBM would be in the discussion for massive market cap today if not for the 
government forcing them out of the PC market. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:48 AM, Wayne Bickerdike  
wrote:

At 6.5%, the iPhone maker’s share in the S 500 just surpassed the record
6.4% that IBM held 35 years ago, data compiled by S Dow Jones Indices and
Bloomberg show. Apple’s overall market cap stands at $1.875 trillion, about
7% away from $2 trillion.

The breakthrough speaks to the strength of a company that few can match in
a year when Covid-19 is raging. Up 49% this year, Apple’s gain beats all
U.S. companies with a market value above $300 billion, except for
Amazon.com Inc. The share rally has picked up after the company’s quarterly
revenue crushed Wall Street forecasts, boosted by demand from locked down
consumers for new iPhones, iPads and Mac computers to stay connected during
the pandemic.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 2:18 PM Wayne Bickerdike  wrote:

> Hi Charles,
>
> GBG was general business group. DP was Data Processing.
>
> GBG sold Series 1, photocopiers and typewriters, System 34 (back in 1978
> when I was there).
>
> DP sold mainframes and believed that they ruled. So when a salesman went
> to an account, mainframe was always sold above anything else.
>
> At the time, we in GBG were hoping that the anti-trust ruling would be to
> split IBM. It didn't happen. Around that time, Wozniak and Jobs were
> building the first Apples, Silicon Valley was taking off and IBM were in a
> deep sleep.
>
> At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
> going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
> microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
> ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
> to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.
>
> The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.
>
> It's the vision thing! LOL.
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:07 AM Charles Mills  wrote:
>
>> TMA
>>
>> Too many acronyms.
>>
>> What is GBG? What is DP?
>>
>> I know RBG.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Wayne Bickerdike
>> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:38 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>
>> Global services was a poor place for "IBM" employees.  They weren't the
>> same as the IBMers in terms of benefits.  This has been the trend at IBM
>> for years. I was an IBMer in the 70s and we hoped that the antitrust cases
>> would lead to a split so that GBG would separate from DP. It didn't happen
>> and Windows are their lunch. DXC will be rubbing their hands.
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
> --
> Wayne V. Bickerdike
>
>

-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[Bill Johnson]

I get it. IBM says something, its a lie. AZURE/AWS says it, it’s gospel. Thanks 
for clearing that up. Give me an example of a company using AZURE/AWS cloud for 
mission critical, highly sensitive information? Then Google all the hacks and 
crashes of those 2 cloud platforms.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> bigger than 2% to me.
> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
> Read up.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
> and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
> truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
> the
> > lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
> do.
> > Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
> companies
> > are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> > Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
> slow.
> > Even with the government contract.
> >
> >
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> > 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> > building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> > IBM is enterprise.
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's
> at
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> > and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and
> then
> > notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> > 26% of the SaaS market".
> > So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> > player.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> > > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> > >
> > > |
> > > |
> > > |
> > > |  |    |
> > >
> > >    |
> > >
> > >  |
> > > |
> > > |  |
> > > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> > >
> > > Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
> > >compared  to explain 

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[David Crayford]

On 2020-10-11 11:18 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:

At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.

The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.


Just look at the market cap of Netflix vs IBM!

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