Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
Prove it. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 10:54 PM, David Crayford wrote: > On 14 Sep 2023, at 10:39 am, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Ray’s words. Cut and pasted from his response to a question about the > direction of assembler programming. > > “I'll be honest - it's getting smaller and smaller. It's become a niche, > mainly for system tools ISVs. Metal C is where the invisible hand of IBM is > pushing the industry.” > Maybe Ray chip in? I think he was referring to new applications. The fact is that a huge amount of products that run the mainframe are written in assembler. > > There is nothing to indicate assembler programming is growing and in fact it > is shrinking by approximately 5% a year. > > AI is going to grow exponentially. For decades. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:59 PM, David Crayford > wrote: > >> On 14 Sep 2023, at 9:37 am, Bill Johnson >> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> Potential positions? Either you have positions or you don’t. Or, you have >> positions and no applicants. Which once again proves my point. > > Check our website which has all open positions. > >> Don’t waste your time learning a dying skill. As stated by Assembler expert >> Ray Mullins. >> > > I worked for the same company as Ray. Great guy, total respect. I’m sure if > you asked him he would acknowledge that the huge amount of assembler code in > mission critical products needs to be supported for decades. > >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:00 PM, David Crayford >> wrote: >> >> We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me >> your resume if you’re interested. >> >>> On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: >>> >>> I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here >>> encouraged me to do so. >>> >>> My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion >>> and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable >>> enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a >>> higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may >>> not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. >>> >>> I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with >>> carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but >>> those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand >>> due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those >>> who do it make good money and have plenty of work. People who specialize >>> in repairing antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a >>> job anywhere - but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. >>> >>> As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for >>> assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. >>> >>> On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the software that no one else had time for. I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some of the things I'm especially good at too. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Arthur Fichtl Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable.
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
> On 14 Sep 2023, at 10:39 am, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Ray’s words. Cut and pasted from his response to a question about the > direction of assembler programming. > > “I'll be honest - it's getting smaller and smaller. It's become a niche, > mainly for system tools ISVs. Metal C is where the invisible hand of IBM is > pushing the industry.” > Maybe Ray chip in? I think he was referring to new applications. The fact is that a huge amount of products that run the mainframe are written in assembler. > > There is nothing to indicate assembler programming is growing and in fact it > is shrinking by approximately 5% a year. > > AI is going to grow exponentially. For decades. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:59 PM, David Crayford > wrote: > >> On 14 Sep 2023, at 9:37 am, Bill Johnson >> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> Potential positions? Either you have positions or you don’t. Or, you have >> positions and no applicants. Which once again proves my point. > > Check our website which has all open positions. > >> Don’t waste your time learning a dying skill. As stated by Assembler expert >> Ray Mullins. >> > > I worked for the same company as Ray. Great guy, total respect. I’m sure if > you asked him he would acknowledge that the huge amount of assembler code in > mission critical products needs to be supported for decades. > >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:00 PM, David Crayford >> wrote: >> >> We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me >> your resume if you’re interested. >> >>> On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: >>> >>> I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here >>> encouraged me to do so. >>> >>> My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion >>> and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable >>> enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a >>> higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may >>> not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. >>> >>> I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with >>> carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but >>> those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand >>> due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those >>> who do it make good money and have plenty of work.People who specialize >>> in repairing antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a >>> job anywhere - but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. >>> >>> As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for >>> assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. >>> >>> On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the software that no one else had time for. I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some of the things I'm especially good at too. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Arthur Fichtl Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore I for myself had a quite secure
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
Ray’s words. Cut and pasted from his response to a question about the direction of assembler programming. “I'll be honest - it's getting smaller and smaller. It's become a niche, mainly for system tools ISVs. Metal C is where the invisible hand of IBM is pushing the industry.” There is nothing to indicate assembler programming is growing and in fact it is shrinking by approximately 5% a year. AI is going to grow exponentially. For decades. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:59 PM, David Crayford wrote: > On 14 Sep 2023, at 9:37 am, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Potential positions? Either you have positions or you don’t. Or, you have > positions and no applicants. Which once again proves my point. Check our website which has all open positions. > Don’t waste your time learning a dying skill. As stated by Assembler expert > Ray Mullins. > I worked for the same company as Ray. Great guy, total respect. I’m sure if you asked him he would acknowledge that the huge amount of assembler code in mission critical products needs to be supported for decades. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:00 PM, David Crayford > wrote: > > We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me > your resume if you’re interested. > >> On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: >> >> I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here >> encouraged me to do so. >> >> My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion >> and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable >> enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a >> higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may >> not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. >> >> I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. >> Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have >> a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the >> 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make >> good money and have plenty of work. People who specialize in repairing >> antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - >> but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. >> >> As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for >> assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. >> >> On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: >>> I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what >>> you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was >>> the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big >>> greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the >>> one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies >>> for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that >>> "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the >>> lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an >>> your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is >>> I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out >>> the software that no one else had time for. >>> >>> I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're >>> interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks >>> that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm >>> useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some >>> of the things I'm especially good at too. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a >>> little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >>> Arthur Fichtl >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 >>> >>> As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find >>> a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, >>> analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. >>> >>> My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore >>> I for myself had a quite secure job. >>> >>> And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch >>> cards as the user interface. Quite funny. >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >>
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
> On 14 Sep 2023, at 9:37 am, Bill Johnson > <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Potential positions? Either you have positions or you don’t. Or, you have > positions and no applicants. Which once again proves my point. Check our website which has all open positions. > Don’t waste your time learning a dying skill. As stated by Assembler expert > Ray Mullins. > I worked for the same company as Ray. Great guy, total respect. I’m sure if you asked him he would acknowledge that the huge amount of assembler code in mission critical products needs to be supported for decades. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:00 PM, David Crayford > wrote: > > We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me > your resume if you’re interested. > >> On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: >> >> I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here >> encouraged me to do so. >> >> My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion >> and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable >> enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a >> higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may >> not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. >> >> I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. >> Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have >> a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the >> 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make >> good money and have plenty of work.People who specialize in repairing >> antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - >> but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. >> >> As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for >> assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. >> >> On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: >>> I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what >>> you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was >>> the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big >>> greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the >>> one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies >>> for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that >>> "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the >>> lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an >>> your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is >>> I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out >>> the software that no one else had time for. >>> >>> I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're >>> interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks >>> that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm >>> useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some >>> of the things I'm especially good at too. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a >>> little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >>> Arthur Fichtl >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 >>> >>> As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find >>> a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, >>> analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. >>> >>> My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore >>> I for myself had a quite secure job. >>> >>> And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch >>> cards as the user interface. Quite funny. >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
Potential positions? Either you have positions or you don’t. Or, you have positions and no applicants. Which once again proves my point. Don’t waste your time learning a dying skill. As stated by Assembler expert Ray Mullins. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 9:00 PM, David Crayford wrote: We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me your resume if you’re interested. > On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: > > I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here > encouraged me to do so. > > My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion and > become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable enough > to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a higher rate > than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may not be a lot > of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. > > I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. > Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have a > lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the 'production > line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make good money > and have plenty of work. People who specialize in repairing antique > clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - but if > they are good at it, they have plenty of business. > > As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for assembler > programmers. That's my opinion, at least. > > On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: >> I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you >> turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the >> only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar >> printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks >> came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At >> another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get >> you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone >> fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your >> resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I >> ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the >> software that no one else had time for. >> >> I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're >> interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks >> that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm >> useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some >> of the things I'm especially good at too. >> >> --- >> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >> >> /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a >> little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ >> >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >> Arthur Fichtl >> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 >> >> As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a >> market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis >> of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. >> >> My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore I >> for myself had a quite secure job. >> >> And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch >> cards as the user interface. Quite funny. >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
We’ve got loads of potential positions for good HLASM programmers. Send me your resume if you’re interested. > On 14 Sep 2023, at 4:23 am, Dean Kent wrote: > > I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here > encouraged me to do so. > > My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion and > become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable enough > to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a higher rate > than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may not be a lot > of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. > > I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. > Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have > a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the > 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make > good money and have plenty of work.People who specialize in repairing > antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - > but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. > > As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for assembler > programmers. That's my opinion, at least. > > On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: >> I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you >> turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the >> only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar >> printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks >> came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At >> another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get >> you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone >> fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your >> resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I >> ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the >> software that no one else had time for. >> >> I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're >> interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks >> that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm >> useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some >> of the things I'm especially good at too. >> >> --- >> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >> >> /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a >> little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ >> >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of >> Arthur Fichtl >> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 >> >> As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a >> market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis >> of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. >> >> My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore I >> for myself had a quite secure job. >> >> And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch >> cards as the user interface. Quite funny. >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
AI, real AI, isn’t even a year old. I’m betting the next 3-5 decades will see it become the most powerful advancement in IT history. https://www.3dbear.io/blog/the-impact-of-ai-how-artificial-intelligence-is-transforming-society Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 7:20 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote: Just how many decades are there in an inning? From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 6:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position It’s barely the first inning of AI. Demand for AI specialists is going to grow exponentially. Companies are spending trillions to implement over the next decade. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/23/the-ai-spending-boom-is-spreading-far-beyond-big-tech-companies.html Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 5:37 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: Predictions are risky, but I'm going to expose myself just for fun: My bet is that these salaries represent a bubble that won't last long. AI is the latest cool thing, right? These are correspondingly cool numbers, but I'm thinking the bubble will burst. Soon? I dunno. What's "soon"? More than a year, probably. Maybe four or five years? But predictions, especially my predictions, are worth exactly what you're paying for them. See the collection of taglines: --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's. -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */ /* Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons. -Popular Mechanics, forecasting in 1949 the relentless march of science */ /* The most important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered, and these are now so firmly established that the possibility of their ever being supplemented in consequence of new discoveries is exceedingly remote. -Abraham Albert Michelson in 1903 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 17:07 AI Specialist Salary Last Updated on: August 14, 2023 The average AI specialist salary in the United States is $165,980 per year, or $79.80 per hour. Their monthly salary starts at $6,907 and goes up to $20,494 per month, or about $245,931 per year. The top-paying states for artificial intelligence specialists are California at $246,143 per year, Oregon at $201,305, and Washington at $193,768. The lowest-paying area is Georgia, with an average salary of $90,068 a year. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
Just how many decades are there in an inning? From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 6:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position It’s barely the first inning of AI. Demand for AI specialists is going to grow exponentially. Companies are spending trillions to implement over the next decade. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/23/the-ai-spending-boom-is-spreading-far-beyond-big-tech-companies.html Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 5:37 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: Predictions are risky, but I'm going to expose myself just for fun: My bet is that these salaries represent a bubble that won't last long. AI is the latest cool thing, right? These are correspondingly cool numbers, but I'm thinking the bubble will burst. Soon? I dunno. What's "soon"? More than a year, probably. Maybe four or five years? But predictions, especially my predictions, are worth exactly what you're paying for them. See the collection of taglines: --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's. -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */ /* Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons. -Popular Mechanics, forecasting in 1949 the relentless march of science */ /* The most important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered, and these are now so firmly established that the possibility of their ever being supplemented in consequence of new discoveries is exceedingly remote. -Abraham Albert Michelson in 1903 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 17:07 AI Specialist Salary Last Updated on: August 14, 2023 The average AI specialist salary in the United States is $165,980 per year, or $79.80 per hour. Their monthly salary starts at $6,907 and goes up to $20,494 per month, or about $245,931 per year. The top-paying states for artificial intelligence specialists are California at $246,143 per year, Oregon at $201,305, and Washington at $193,768. The lowest-paying area is Georgia, with an average salary of $90,068 a year. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
I’m not conflating anything. You don’t understand markets. Let’s use carburetor mechanics. These numbers are only used as an example. In 1970, there was very likely 100,000 mechanics who could work on carburetors. Because nearly every car had one. In 2023, I’d bet it’s maybe 1000. Because very few cars have a carburetor. Those 1000 probably are doing ok financially. But, it leaves 99,000 either unemployed or retrained to work on something else. In 10 years, there will be even fewer cars with carburetors on the road. So, 500 carburetor specialists will be looking for a new skill/job. And so forth until the carburetor specialist job becomes nonexistent. Assembler is going the same route. The ones still doing it will do ok, but the numbers will (and are) in decline. Eventually going to zero. I’d venture to opine that AI is going to eliminate plenty of the current occupations in IT. And faster than many think. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 5:30 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: Bill, it sounds to me like you're conflating two things, ie how many assembler programmers are needed with how much such a programmer can make. You've been saying the market for assembler programmers is doomed to decline (and I have no opinion to offer on that), and you conclude that therefore a specialist will make more money only until the skillset involved begins to decline. Dean, on the other hand, is saying that the few specialists who keep providing a service that's falling into disuse are going to go on working and making ~more~ money, and I think he's right. So does the DICE article you quoted. The reason is that when no one wants that skill any more, the fact is that a few people still want it and have a hard time finding it. I'm thinking not only of my own experiences but also, here, an article I read recently about the last company in the world that deals with 3½" diskettes. It's a dead market, right? But only almost - and the one company that sells them, and provides other services, is up to the eyeballs in urgent requests for help from people who really need it and can't find it anywhere else. So being skilled in providing a service that is getting harder and harder to find (and it's getting harder to find precisely ~because~ fewer employers want it) is a pretty enviable position to be in. This accords with the advice offered by Richard Bolles, the writer of the annual publication "What Color is Your Parachute?", which many of us remember with reverence. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Following the path of least resistance is what makes rivers and men crooked. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 16:47 A generalist will rarely be unemployed. A specialist will usually make more money but only until the skillset involved begins to decline or is phased out. Assembler programming has been in decline for decades. -- From Dice.com September 2022. There’s a pervasive myth that being able to program in assembly language makes you a master programmer with deity-level skills. Yet novice programmers can also pick up the nuances of assembly language—provided they invest the time and effort. Today, assembly language finds its greatest use in compiler development and low-level engineering, with some finance applications. Some companies definitely need the talent. According to Lightcast (formerly Emsi Burning Glass), which collects and analyses millions of job postings from across the country, there were 5,088 open job postings over the past 12 months that mentioned assembly language; however, the platform estimates job growth for the language at -10.8 percent over the next two years. That’s a steep decline. Those skilled in assembly language can expect relatively high salaries, at least: Lightcast pegs the median salary for jobs requiring assembly language at $93,022, which can drift higher with the right mix of skills and experience. Jobs requesting assembly language knowledge include software developer/engineer, training and development specialist, embedded software engineer, and firmware engineer. --- On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 4:27 PM, Dean Kent wrote: My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make
Cobol Program & Kerberos
I set up a Kerberos Environment using TSS (Top Secret) . I would like to test it out and found this program. IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. PROGRAM-ID. KerberosAccess. DATA DIVISION. WORKING-STORAGE SECTION. 01 Service-Principal-Name PIC X(128). 01 User-Name PIC X(128). 01 Password PIC X(128). 01 Ticket BUFFER. 01 Ticket-Length PIC S9(9) COMP-5. PROCEDURE DIVISION. MOVE "service@realm" TO Service-Principal-Name. MOVE "username" TO User-Name. MOVE "password" TO Password. CALL 'Kerberos_Init' USING ... (Initialize Kerberos) CALL 'Kerberos_GetTicket' USING ... Service-Principal-Name User-Name Password Ticket Ticket-Length. IF Ticket-Length > 0 DISPLAY "Ticket obtained successfully" ELSE DISPLAY "Failed to obtain ticket" END-IF. CALL 'Kerberos_Cleanup' USING ... (Cleanup resources) STOP RUN. Do you think it will work and does anyone have the USING code for the Kerberos INIT and CLEANUP calls? The system is z/OS v2.4. Thank You -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
It’s barely the first inning of AI. Demand for AI specialists is going to grow exponentially. Companies are spending trillions to implement over the next decade. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/23/the-ai-spending-boom-is-spreading-far-beyond-big-tech-companies.html Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 5:37 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: Predictions are risky, but I'm going to expose myself just for fun: My bet is that these salaries represent a bubble that won't last long. AI is the latest cool thing, right? These are correspondingly cool numbers, but I'm thinking the bubble will burst. Soon? I dunno. What's "soon"? More than a year, probably. Maybe four or five years? But predictions, especially my predictions, are worth exactly what you're paying for them. See the collection of taglines: --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's. -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */ /* Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons. -Popular Mechanics, forecasting in 1949 the relentless march of science */ /* The most important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered, and these are now so firmly established that the possibility of their ever being supplemented in consequence of new discoveries is exceedingly remote. -Abraham Albert Michelson in 1903 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 17:07 AI Specialist Salary Last Updated on: August 14, 2023 The average AI specialist salary in the United States is $165,980 per year, or $79.80 per hour. Their monthly salary starts at $6,907 and goes up to $20,494 per month, or about $245,931 per year. The top-paying states for artificial intelligence specialists are California at $246,143 per year, Oregon at $201,305, and Washington at $193,768. The lowest-paying area is Georgia, with an average salary of $90,068 a year. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
Well, SABRE has been moving off the mainframe since 2001. On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 3:27 PM Dean Kent wrote: > > I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here > encouraged me to do so. > > My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your > passion and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it > is valuable enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend > to demand a higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and > while there may not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. > > I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with > carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but > those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge > demand due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - > but those who do it make good money and have plenty of work.People > who specialize in repairing antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not > be able to get a job anywhere - but if they are good at it, they have > plenty of business. > > As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for > assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. > > On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: > > I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what > > you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was > > the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big > > greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the > > one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies > > for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that > > "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the > > lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an > > your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is > > I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out > > the software that no one else had time for. > > > > I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're > > interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks > > that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm > > useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some > > of the things I'm especially good at too. > > > > --- > > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > > /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a > > little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > > Arthur Fichtl > > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 > > > > As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find > > a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, > > analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. > > > > My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore > > I for myself had a quite secure job. > > > > And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch > > cards as the user interface. Quite funny. > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
Apologies Joseph, you are correct. I just re-checked the ASMIDF manuals and they do not directly say that it supports debugging authorized code. The Fine Manuals actually don’t say one way or another whether authorized debugging is supported, but since it is not specifically documented as possible I would presume that it is not. I suppose you could try making ASMIDF itself authorized in an APF library so you could try debugging authorized code, but I suspect that exercise would end up causing more problems than it may be worth. Peter From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Joseph Reichman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 4:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Commands from systsin Last time I visited IDF didn’t debug code in supervisor state > On Sep 13, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Steve Thompson wrote: > > Noobies who don't want to know history and the like, just delete this > > As to z/XDC and priv code and/or key zero storage -- oh the ease and joy of > not being forced to use TEST Auth. Or having to set some SLIP, get a dump, or > do SNAPs... > > I wish I could be cursed with having to use z/XDC again. Stepping through > code But don't do that on a production machine -- sand box only (for > setting traps in LPA and the like. Yes, you can set traps in SVCs and PCs and > the like) -- just be very careful or you can kill the system right out from > under you (read the very good manual, it lists things you do at your own > risk). > > I can't tell you how much I enjoyed XDC, and then z/XDC. Dave.C, may you live > forever. > > Steve Thompson > > On 9/13/2023 3:40 PM, Tom Marchant wrote: >>> only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 >> Obviously you haven't tried z/XDC. >> >>> All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB >> Have you considered using CSVDYLPA to load in into dynamic LPA? Probably >> overkill for your purposes, but you can do it so that it will stay after >> task termination. -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
On Wed, 13 Sep 2023, at 22:29, Bob Bridges wrote: > I'm > thinking not only of my own experiences but also, here, an article I > read recently about the last company in the world that deals with 3½" > diskettes. It's a dead market, right? But only almost - and the one > company that sells them, and provides other services, is up to the > eyeballs in urgent requests for help from people who really need it and > can't find it anywhere else. Eg: https://simpleflying.com/boeing-747-400-floppy-disk-updates/ -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
Predictions are risky, but I'm going to expose myself just for fun: My bet is that these salaries represent a bubble that won't last long. AI is the latest cool thing, right? These are correspondingly cool numbers, but I'm thinking the bubble will burst. Soon? I dunno. What's "soon"? More than a year, probably. Maybe four or five years? But predictions, especially my predictions, are worth exactly what you're paying for them. See the collection of taglines: --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* By 2005 or so, it will be clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's. -Paul Krugman, Nobel-prize-winning economist in 1998 */ /* Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons. -Popular Mechanics, forecasting in 1949 the relentless march of science */ /* The most important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered, and these are now so firmly established that the possibility of their ever being supplemented in consequence of new discoveries is exceedingly remote. -Abraham Albert Michelson in 1903 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 17:07 AI Specialist Salary Last Updated on: August 14, 2023 The average AI specialist salary in the United States is $165,980 per year, or $79.80 per hour. Their monthly salary starts at $6,907 and goes up to $20,494 per month, or about $245,931 per year. The top-paying states for artificial intelligence specialists are California at $246,143 per year, Oregon at $201,305, and Washington at $193,768. The lowest-paying area is Georgia, with an average salary of $90,068 a year. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
Bill, it sounds to me like you're conflating two things, ie how many assembler programmers are needed with how much such a programmer can make. You've been saying the market for assembler programmers is doomed to decline (and I have no opinion to offer on that), and you conclude that therefore a specialist will make more money only until the skillset involved begins to decline. Dean, on the other hand, is saying that the few specialists who keep providing a service that's falling into disuse are going to go on working and making ~more~ money, and I think he's right. So does the DICE article you quoted. The reason is that when no one wants that skill any more, the fact is that a few people still want it and have a hard time finding it. I'm thinking not only of my own experiences but also, here, an article I read recently about the last company in the world that deals with 3½" diskettes. It's a dead market, right? But only almost - and the one company that sells them, and provides other services, is up to the eyeballs in urgent requests for help from people who really need it and can't find it anywhere else. So being skilled in providing a service that is getting harder and harder to find (and it's getting harder to find precisely ~because~ fewer employers want it) is a pretty enviable position to be in. This accords with the advice offered by Richard Bolles, the writer of the annual publication "What Color is Your Parachute?", which many of us remember with reverence. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Following the path of least resistance is what makes rivers and men crooked. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 16:47 A generalist will rarely be unemployed. A specialist will usually make more money but only until the skillset involved begins to decline or is phased out. Assembler programming has been in decline for decades. -- From Dice.com September 2022. There’s a pervasive myth that being able to program in assembly language makes you a master programmer with deity-level skills. Yet novice programmers can also pick up the nuances of assembly language—provided they invest the time and effort. Today, assembly language finds its greatest use in compiler development and low-level engineering, with some finance applications. Some companies definitely need the talent. According to Lightcast (formerly Emsi Burning Glass), which collects and analyses millions of job postings from across the country, there were 5,088 open job postings over the past 12 months that mentioned assembly language; however, the platform estimates job growth for the language at -10.8 percent over the next two years. That’s a steep decline. Those skilled in assembly language can expect relatively high salaries, at least: Lightcast pegs the median salary for jobs requiring assembly language at $93,022, which can drift higher with the right mix of skills and experience. Jobs requesting assembly language knowledge include software developer/engineer, training and development specialist, embedded software engineer, and firmware engineer. --- On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 4:27 PM, Dean Kent wrote: My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make good money and have plenty of work.People who specialize in repairing antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. --- On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: > I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you > turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the > only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar > printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks > came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At > another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get > you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone > fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your > resume". I nodded
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
AI Specialist Salary Last Updated on: August 14, 2023 The average AI specialist salary in the United States is $165,980 per year, or $79.80 per hour. Their monthly salary starts at $6,907 and goes up to $20,494 per month, or about $245,931 per year. The top-paying states for artificial intelligence specialists are California at $246,143 per year, Oregon at $201,305, and Washington at $193,768. The lowest-paying area is Georgia, with an average salary of $90,068 a year. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 4:47 PM, Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: A generalist will rarely be unemployed. A specialist will usually make more money but only until the skillset involved begins to decline or is phased out. Assembler programming has been in decline for decades. >From Dice.com September 2022. There’s a pervasive myth that being able to program in assembly language makes you a master programmer with deity-level skills. Yet novice programmers can also pick up the nuances of assembly language—provided they invest the time and effort. Today, assembly language finds its greatest use in compiler development and low-level engineering, with some finance applications. Some companies definitely need the talent. According to Lightcast (formerly Emsi Burning Glass), which collects and analyses millions of job postings from across the country, there were 5,088 open job postings over the past 12 months that mentioned assembly language; however, the platform estimates job growth for the language at -10.8 percent over the next two years. That’s a steep decline. Those skilled in assembly language can expect relatively high salaries, at least: Lightcast pegs the median salary for jobs requiring assembly language at $93,022, which can drift higher with the right mix of skills and experience. Jobs requesting assembly language knowledge include software developer/engineer, training and development specialist, embedded software engineer, and firmware engineer. As a generalist, I made more than 93k in an area where the cost of living was way below the national average. Specializing in AI will be far more lucrative than Assembler. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 4:27 PM, Dean Kent wrote: I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here encouraged me to do so. My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make good money and have plenty of work. People who specialize in repairing antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: > I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you > turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the > only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar > printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks > came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At > another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get > you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone > fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your > resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I > ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the > software that no one else had time for. > > I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're > interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks > that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm useless > to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some of the > things I'm especially good at too. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a > little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Arthur Fichtl > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
A generalist will rarely be unemployed. A specialist will usually make more money but only until the skillset involved begins to decline or is phased out. Assembler programming has been in decline for decades. >From Dice.com September 2022. There’s a pervasive myth that being able to program in assembly language makes you a master programmer with deity-level skills. Yet novice programmers can also pick up the nuances of assembly language—provided they invest the time and effort. Today, assembly language finds its greatest use in compiler development and low-level engineering, with some finance applications. Some companies definitely need the talent. According to Lightcast (formerly Emsi Burning Glass), which collects and analyses millions of job postings from across the country, there were 5,088 open job postings over the past 12 months that mentioned assembly language; however, the platform estimates job growth for the language at -10.8 percent over the next two years. That’s a steep decline. Those skilled in assembly language can expect relatively high salaries, at least: Lightcast pegs the median salary for jobs requiring assembly language at $93,022, which can drift higher with the right mix of skills and experience. Jobs requesting assembly language knowledge include software developer/engineer, training and development specialist, embedded software engineer, and firmware engineer. As a generalist, I made more than 93k in an area where the cost of living was way below the national average. Specializing in AI will be far more lucrative than Assembler. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 13, 2023, 4:27 PM, Dean Kent wrote: I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here encouraged me to do so. My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make good money and have plenty of work. People who specialize in repairing antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: > I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you > turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the > only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar > printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks > came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At > another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get > you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone > fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your > resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I > ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the > software that no one else had time for. > > I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're > interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks > that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm useless > to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some of the > things I'm especially good at too. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a > little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Arthur Fichtl > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 > > As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a > market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis > of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. > > My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore I > for myself had a quite secure job. > > And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch > cards as the user interface. Quite funny. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
I didn't want to get into the firefight... however, the commentary here encouraged me to do so. My own belief (whether founded or not) is that if you follow your passion and become good at it, someone will recognize that and feel it is valuable enough to pay for it. I also believe that specialists tend to demand a higher rate than generalists. Assembler is a specialty, and while there may not be a lot of demand, the ones who do require it will pay. I compare it to, for example, I have some classic vehicles with carburetors. Not too many mechanics work on carburetors any more - but those who do have a lot of work. Fine craftsmen may not be in huge demand due to the 'production line' manufacturing of most furniture - but those who do it make good money and have plenty of work. People who specialize in repairing antique clocks, pottery, rugs, etc. may not be able to get a job anywhere - but if they are good at it, they have plenty of business. As long as the mainframe runs legacy code, there will be a need for assembler programmers. That's my opinion, at least. On 9/13/2023 8:52 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the software that no one else had time for. I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some of the things I'm especially good at too. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Arthur Fichtl Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore I for myself had a quite secure job. And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch cards as the user interface. Quite funny. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
Last time I visited IDF didn’t debug code in supervisor state > On Sep 13, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Steve Thompson wrote: > > Noobies who don't want to know history and the like, just delete this > > As to z/XDC and priv code and/or key zero storage -- oh the ease and joy of > not being forced to use TEST Auth. Or having to set some SLIP, get a dump, or > do SNAPs... > > I wish I could be cursed with having to use z/XDC again. Stepping through > code But don't do that on a production machine -- sand box only (for > setting traps in LPA and the like. Yes, you can set traps in SVCs and PCs and > the like) -- just be very careful or you can kill the system right out from > under you (read the very good manual, it lists things you do at your own > risk). > > I can't tell you how much I enjoyed XDC, and then z/XDC. Dave.C, may you live > forever. > > Steve Thompson > > On 9/13/2023 3:40 PM, Tom Marchant wrote: >>> only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 >> Obviously you haven't tried z/XDC. >> >>> All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB >> Have you considered using CSVDYLPA to load in into dynamic LPA? Probably >> overkill for your purposes, but you can do it so that it will stay after >> task termination. >> > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
Noobies who don't want to know history and the like, just delete this As to z/XDC and priv code and/or key zero storage -- oh the ease and joy of not being forced to use TEST Auth. Or having to set some SLIP, get a dump, or do SNAPs... I wish I could be cursed with having to use z/XDC again. Stepping through code But don't do that on a production machine -- sand box only (for setting traps in LPA and the like. Yes, you can set traps in SVCs and PCs and the like) -- just be very careful or you can kill the system right out from under you (read the very good manual, it lists things you do at your own risk). I can't tell you how much I enjoyed XDC, and then z/XDC. Dave.C, may you live forever. Steve Thompson On 9/13/2023 3:40 PM, Tom Marchant wrote: only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 Obviously you haven't tried z/XDC. All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB Have you considered using CSVDYLPA to load in into dynamic LPA? Probably overkill for your purposes, but you can do it so that it will stay after task termination. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
AFAIK, Zpdt systems include the HLASM Toolkit by default. Check it out, it may save you some grief. Since you are on Zpdt you have control over the necessary VTAM APPL’s and LU’s, so you could do remote batch debugging and forget about TEST/TESTAUTH. Peter From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Joseph Reichman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 3:48 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Commands from systsin I don’t have the $10,000 or so to purchase it If it was a reasonable price for Zpdt user I would consider it I need the program in storage area that TESTAUTH will let me set a breakpoint I think my method should work Will try it later > On Sep 13, 2023, at 3:40 PM, Tom Marchant > <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > >> >> only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 > > Obviously you haven't tried z/XDC. > >> All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB > > Have you considered using CSVDYLPA to load in into dynamic LPA? Probably > overkill for your purposes, but you can do it so that it will stay after task > termination. > > -- > Tom Marchant > >> On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 15:10:19 -0400, Joseph Reichman >> wrote: >> >> First off tried it only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 >> >> Not really sure what not being a good idea that is usually reserved for >> moving using non standard code into production as other problems will pop up >> >> All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB >> after I get the kinks out I’ll have LOADTOGLOBAL=YES >> On Sep 13, 2023, at 3:04 PM, Farley, Peter <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with other posters that your suggested solution is not a good idea. >>> >>> If you have the HLASM Toolkit product licensed on your system you can use >>> the ASMIDF debugger to remotely debug batch jobs from a VTAM session, but >>> using ASMIDF requires that pre-established VTAM APPL’s and LU’s are defined >>> by your VTAM/network team. >>> >>> I have used it to debug assembler code and it is a pretty reasonable >>> debugging tool (not as good as z/XDC, but reasonable nonetheless, and IMHO >>> better than TSO TEST) IFF you can get your network team to set up the VTAM >>> APPL’s and LU’s for you. It’s all documented in the install/reference >>> manual for the HLASM Toolkit. >>> >>> IIRC, ASMIDF even has the ability to debug authorized code, but check the >>> manual to be sure. -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
I don’t have the $10,000 or so to purchase it If it was a reasonable price for Zpdt user I would consider it I need the program in storage area that TESTAUTH will let me set a breakpoint I think my method should work Will try it later > On Sep 13, 2023, at 3:40 PM, Tom Marchant > <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > >> >> only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 > > Obviously you haven't tried z/XDC. > >> All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB > > Have you considered using CSVDYLPA to load in into dynamic LPA? Probably > overkill for your purposes, but you can do it so that it will stay after task > termination. > > -- > Tom Marchant > >> On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 15:10:19 -0400, Joseph Reichman >> wrote: >> >> First off tried it only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 >> >> Not really sure what not being a good idea that is usually reserved for >> moving using non standard code into production as other problems will pop up >> >> All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB >> after I get the kinks out I’ll have LOADTOGLOBAL=YES >> On Sep 13, 2023, at 3:04 PM, Farley, Peter <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with other posters that your suggested solution is not a good idea. >>> >>> If you have the HLASM Toolkit product licensed on your system you can use >>> the ASMIDF debugger to remotely debug batch jobs from a VTAM session, but >>> using ASMIDF requires that pre-established VTAM APPL’s and LU’s are defined >>> by your VTAM/network team. >>> >>> I have used it to debug assembler code and it is a pretty reasonable >>> debugging tool (not as good as z/XDC, but reasonable nonetheless, and IMHO >>> better than TSO TEST) IFF you can get your network team to set up the VTAM >>> APPL’s and LU’s for you. It’s all documented in the install/reference >>> manual for the HLASM Toolkit. >>> >>> IIRC, ASMIDF even has the ability to debug authorized code, but check the >>> manual to be sure. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
>only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 Obviously you haven't tried z/XDC. >All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB Have you considered using CSVDYLPA to load in into dynamic LPA? Probably overkill for your purposes, but you can do it so that it will stay after task termination. -- Tom Marchant On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 15:10:19 -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote: >First off tried it only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 > >Not really sure what not being a good idea that is usually reserved for moving >using non standard code into production as other problems will pop up > >All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB >after I get the kinks out I’ll have LOADTOGLOBAL=YES > >> On Sep 13, 2023, at 3:04 PM, Farley, Peter >> <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> >> I agree with other posters that your suggested solution is not a good idea. >> >> If you have the HLASM Toolkit product licensed on your system you can use >> the ASMIDF debugger to remotely debug batch jobs from a VTAM session, but >> using ASMIDF requires that pre-established VTAM APPL’s and LU’s are defined >> by your VTAM/network team. >> >> I have used it to debug assembler code and it is a pretty reasonable >> debugging tool (not as good as z/XDC, but reasonable nonetheless, and IMHO >> better than TSO TEST) IFF you can get your network team to set up the VTAM >> APPL’s and LU’s for you. It’s all documented in the install/reference >> manual for the HLASM Toolkit. >> >> IIRC, ASMIDF even has the ability to debug authorized code, but check the >> manual to be sure. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
First off tried it only TESTAUTH let’s you debug code with PSW bit 15 being 0 Not really sure what not being a good idea that is usually reserved for moving using non standard code into production as other problems will pop up All I want is to debug a program that was preloaded under a different TCB after I get the kinks out I’ll have LOADTOGLOBAL=YES > On Sep 13, 2023, at 3:04 PM, Farley, Peter > <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > I agree with other posters that your suggested solution is not a good idea. > > If you have the HLASM Toolkit product licensed on your system you can use the > ASMIDF debugger to remotely debug batch jobs from a VTAM session, but using > ASMIDF requires that pre-established VTAM APPL’s and LU’s are defined by your > VTAM/network team. > > I have used it to debug assembler code and it is a pretty reasonable > debugging tool (not as good as z/XDC, but reasonable nonetheless, and IMHO > better than TSO TEST) IFF you can get your network team to set up the VTAM > APPL’s and LU’s for you. It’s all documented in the install/reference manual > for the HLASM Toolkit. > > IIRC, ASMIDF even has the ability to debug authorized code, but check the > manual to be sure. > > Peter > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Joseph Reichman > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 12:52 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Commands from systsin > > > > Let me explain I’m only doing this for testing purposes > > > > I am writing a subsystem so normally the function routines would be in global > > > > But I want to debug the function routine under TEST/TESTAUTH > > > > So the subsystem initialization routine is going to create the SSVT routine > by address > > > > But I need that address to be valid when I later on in the same TSO Session > but under a new invocation of TESTAUTH invoke the function > > Under second invocation of TEST/TESTAUTH > > > > I have this address which I saved wrote down from the first > > And in second invocation before I issue IEFSSREQ I’ll do a AT 1EF37980. ( the > address is just an example ) > > > > Makes sense ? > > > >>> On Sep 13, 2023, at 12:19 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> >> > >> I advise against it. > >> > >> > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of >> Joseph Reichman > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 11:12 AM > >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Commands from systsin > >> > >> Seems then the only to do what I want is schedule an IRB with the TCB being >> IKJEFT01 > >> > >> ? > >> > >>> On Sep 13, 2023, at 11:09 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > >>> > >>> The modules are deleted from storage when the command complete, as part of >>> task cleanup. > >>> > >>> > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of >>> Joseph Reichman > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 10:10 AM > >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > >>> Subject: Commands from systsin > >>> > >>> Hi > >>> > >>> I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job >>> pack are of my tso session > >>> > >>> So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it does >>> is loads > >>> A few load modules and wto s the address > >>> Will they remain in core until I log off > >>> > >>> I mean I’m assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 > >>> > >>> And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off > >>> Am I correct ? > > -- > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If > the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail > and delete the message and any attachments from your system. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
I agree with other posters that your suggested solution is not a good idea. If you have the HLASM Toolkit product licensed on your system you can use the ASMIDF debugger to remotely debug batch jobs from a VTAM session, but using ASMIDF requires that pre-established VTAM APPL’s and LU’s are defined by your VTAM/network team. I have used it to debug assembler code and it is a pretty reasonable debugging tool (not as good as z/XDC, but reasonable nonetheless, and IMHO better than TSO TEST) IFF you can get your network team to set up the VTAM APPL’s and LU’s for you. It’s all documented in the install/reference manual for the HLASM Toolkit. IIRC, ASMIDF even has the ability to debug authorized code, but check the manual to be sure. Peter From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Joseph Reichman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 12:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Commands from systsin Let me explain I’m only doing this for testing purposes I am writing a subsystem so normally the function routines would be in global But I want to debug the function routine under TEST/TESTAUTH So the subsystem initialization routine is going to create the SSVT routine by address But I need that address to be valid when I later on in the same TSO Session but under a new invocation of TESTAUTH invoke the function Under second invocation of TEST/TESTAUTH I have this address which I saved wrote down from the first And in second invocation before I issue IEFSSREQ I’ll do a AT 1EF37980. ( the address is just an example ) Makes sense ? > On Sep 13, 2023, at 12:19 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > I advise against it. > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Joseph Reichman > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 11:12 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Commands from systsin > > Seems then the only to do what I want is schedule an IRB with the TCB being > IKJEFT01 > > ? > >> On Sep 13, 2023, at 11:09 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> >> The modules are deleted from storage when the command complete, as part of >> task cleanup. >> >> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of >> Joseph Reichman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 10:10 AM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Commands from systsin >> >> Hi >> >> I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job >> pack are of my tso session >> >> So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it does >> is loads >> A few load modules and wto s the address >> Will they remain in core until I log off >> >> I mean I’m assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 >> >> And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off >> Am I correct ? -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 10:10:42AM -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote: > I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the > job pack are of my tso session > > So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it > does is loads A few load modules and wto s the address Will they remain > in core until I log off No. see the load macro: https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=storage-load-description The responsibility count for the load module is increased by one. The load module remains in virtual storage until the responsibility count is reduced to 0 through task terminations. The module also remains until the effects of all outstanding LOAD requests for the module are canceled by using the DELETE macro. There are no other requirements for the module. So the module goes away when it's not being used and the task doing the LOAD terminated implies DELETEs for all the modules it loaded. If the use count for a module goes to zero the module goes away. > I mean I'm assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 No, the TSO TMP uses attach to start commands so when the command ends the task attached to run the command terminates (and all it's loaded modules get implicitly deleted). > And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off > Am I correct ? No. I'd suggest learning how to read dumps and use SYSUDUMP or SYSMDUMP and debug it in batch. This avoids all the TSO APF mess... You might want your own "driver" program which preloads modules as you need before attaching your program your testing... Possibly how well this works depends on how fast your submit/output cycle time is. I've written subsystem code and did not use the TSO TEST APF functions during development but this was something like MVS SP1. Then again at that point I'd already been reading (others) dumps for over 10 years. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
Let me explain I’m only doing this for testing purposes I am writing a subsystem so normally the function routines would be in global But I want to debug the function routine under TEST/TESTAUTH So the subsystem initialization routine is going to create the SSVT routine by address But I need that address to be valid when I later on in the same TSO Session but under a new invocation of TESTAUTH invoke the function Under second invocation of TEST/TESTAUTH I have this address which I saved wrote down from the first And in second invocation before I issue IEFSSREQ I’ll do a AT 1EF37980. ( the address is just an example ) Makes sense ? > On Sep 13, 2023, at 12:19 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > I advise against it. > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Joseph Reichman > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 11:12 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Commands from systsin > > Seems then the only to do what I want is schedule an IRB with the TCB being > IKJEFT01 > > ? > >> On Sep 13, 2023, at 11:09 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> >> The modules are deleted from storage when the command complete, as part of >> task cleanup. >> >> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of >> Joseph Reichman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 10:10 AM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Commands from systsin >> >> Hi >> >> I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job >> pack are of my tso session >> >> So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it does >> is loads >> A few load modules and wto s the address >> Will they remain in core until I log off >> >> I mean I’m assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 >> >> And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off >> Am I correct ? >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
I advise against it. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Joseph Reichman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 11:12 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Commands from systsin Seems then the only to do what I want is schedule an IRB with the TCB being IKJEFT01 ? > On Sep 13, 2023, at 11:09 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > The modules are deleted from storage when the command complete, as part of > task cleanup. > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Joseph Reichman > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 10:10 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Commands from systsin > > Hi > > I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job pack > are of my tso session > > So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it does > is loads > A few load modules and wto s the address > Will they remain in core until I log off > > I mean I’m assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 > > And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off > Am I correct ? > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 11:12:30 -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote: >Seems then the only to do what I want is schedule an IRB with the TCB being >IKJEFT01 >? > Can you ATTACH your other programs from the task that performs the LOAD? >> >> From: Joseph Reichman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 10:10 AM >> >> I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job >> pack are of my tso session >> >> So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it does >> is loads >> A few load modules and wto s the address >> Will they remain in core until I log off -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
I've long observed that no matter what your employer hired you for, what you turn out to be good at is what they use you for. At one location I was the only one who bothered to figure out what was wrong with the big greenbar printer when it went haywire; before I left, therefore, I was the one folks came to when it misbehaved, and I was the one ordering supplies for it. At another place my boss remarked, during an annual review, that "we gotta get you on some of these team projects; we keep using you as the lone fire-fighter for odd problems, but team projects will look good an your resume". I nodded enthusiastically and agreed aloud, but the fact is I ~liked~ being the guy in the corner who did the odd jobs, figuring out the software that no one else had time for. I always recommend to young folks that they keep on doing what they're interested in doing. Obviously this doesn't mean neglecting assigned tasks that sound boring; if I don't do what my boss wants me to do then I'm useless to him. But eventually he'll discover that he wants me to do some of the things I'm especially good at too. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. -[Arthur C] Clarke's 2nd law. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Arthur Fichtl Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 04:18 As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore I for myself had a quite secure job. And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch cards as the user interface. Quite funny. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
Seems then the only to do what I want is schedule an IRB with the TCB being IKJEFT01 ? > On Sep 13, 2023, at 11:09 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > The modules are deleted from storage when the command complete, as part of > task cleanup. > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Joseph Reichman > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 10:10 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Commands from systsin > > Hi > > I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job pack > are of my tso session > > So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it does > is loads > A few load modules and wto s the address > Will they remain in core until I log off > > I mean I’m assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 > > And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off > Am I correct ? > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
The modules are deleted from storage when the command complete, as part of task cleanup. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Joseph Reichman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 10:10 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Commands from systsin Hi I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job pack are of my tso session So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it does is loads A few load modules and wto s the address Will they remain in core until I log off I mean I’m assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off Am I correct ? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Commands from systsin
You might have to be sneaky. If your setup has a command run from TSO before ISPF (something like A.CLIST(#LOGON)) you should be able to run code that loads your stuff before it starts ISPF (PDF, ISPSTART or whatever). On my MVS 3.8 system at IPL I run something that loads 3 routines into LPA, and a list of pointers to them I called USERVT, pointed to by the spare CVTUSER field. Since CoViD-19 I can't remenber /why/ I did this, so there's a bit of investigation to do :-) Roops On Wed, 13 Sep 2023, 15:10 Joseph Reichman, wrote: > Hi > > I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job > pack are of my tso session > > So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it > does is loads > A few load modules and wto s the address > Will they remain in core until I log off > > I mean I’m assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 > > And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off > Am I correct ? > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Commands from systsin
Hi I have a number of program that I would like to stay resident in the job pack are of my tso session So I run a command from systsin in my tso session that command all it does is loads A few load modules and wto s the address Will they remain in core until I log off I mean I’m assuming the would run under job step TCB IKJEFT01 And therefore stay in the job pack are till I log off Am I correct ? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: AI expert hot new position.
Classification: Confidential PKB -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 8:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: AI expert hot new position. [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] David so badly wants his dying art to be important because it makes him feel superior. Textbook narcissist. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, September 12, 2023, 8:58 AM, David Crayford wrote: > On 12 Sep 2023, at 8:04 pm, Jon Butler wrote: > > There will be a need for assembler programmers for quite a while, YEAH! z/OS syscalls are assembler macros! No HLASM no z/OS. The sheer volume of assembler code is an existential threat to the platform as young guys don’t want to spend 10 years onboarding. > but mainly because over the last forty years, and long after even COBOL II > added functions and a case construction in 1987, very, very clever people > decided they would write application modules in assembler... and not waste > time with comments. Today, when companies are trying to make their systems > Highly Available...or even convert to a cloud provider's service...no one has > a clue what the modules do. Many could have been easily replaced by COBOL's > ADDRESS OF or LENGTH OF or PL/I Pointers, but of course that would have been > way too easy. Very few application programs need to control channels. > > When I was interviewed by the Db2 Utilities group at the Santa Teresa lab in > San Jose (Now Silicon Valley) in 2001, I said I suppose I needed to brush up > on my assembler. They laughed and said "no one uses assembler any more." > All the Utilities were written in PL/S, now PL/X. DB2 Utilities got sold a vendor and the devs moved with it. I heard an amusing story that IBM were hell bent on migrating to OO PL/X which was so buggy the CICS team in Hursley referred to it as “oh oh PL/X”. It was in the 90’s when everybody thought inheritance was a good idea but it introduced “is-a hell” and the path length of the code exploded. It was so bad that DB2 utilities were close to missing their targets and abandoned it. It was a huge blunder. A lot of new code in DB2 Utilities is done Metal/C/ > > Not to denigrate assembler programmers, or those that decide to take up > Sanskrit, but it is a dying art. Yep. For new code avoid it like the plague. But the legacy needs to be maintained. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ::DISCLAIMER:: The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Assembler, was: AI expert hot new position
As a now retired freelance z/OS guy based in Munich/Germany I had to find a market niche at my employer. Therefore I specialized on debugging, analysis of dumps and the like. For those tasks HLASM was inevitable. My colleagues preferred more comfortable tasks and languages and therefore I for myself had a quite secure job. And I liked it. My 1st language was the Siemens 4004 Assembler with punch cards as the user interface. Quite funny. Arthur -- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast-Antivirussoftware auf Viren geprüft. www.avast.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Scan a VSAM LDS?
> On 13 Sep 2023, at 12:39 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > You could use windowing.Look at CSRIDAC if you don't want to use assembler. > That’s an excellent suggestion even if you are using assembler. The interface is much simpler. > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of > Billy Ashton > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 11:19 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Scan a VSAM LDS? > > Hey everyone! > I was wondering if there is a way to scan a VSAM LDS for string > occurrences? I know that there is no way to see the individual records, > but it could be helpful if I could at least dump the data block where > the string was found. > > As an example, something like this: > OPTION COPY > RECORD TYPE=V > INCLUDE COND=(5,24576,SS,EQ,C'MBC$23005X') > > (I don't know if I need special statements for VSAM LDS...I couldn't > find any indication in the docs.) > > Thank you and best regards, > Billy Ashton > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
