Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Longabaugh, Robert E]

From an ISV standpoint, we come across this from time to time.  I suppose that 
this is to avoid the chance of needing to back out to a level earlier than they 
accepted.   However, at times the distribution zone for our product winds up 
lower than the level needed to support the z/OS currently in their site.  

Bob Longabaugh
CA Technologies
Storage Management


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 1:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of CA. Do not click links or open 
attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


VSAM came out in the same time frame as SMP, Yes, pre-ICF VSAM had some issues, 
but the way that SMP misused member name was a true gargoyle.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mason.gmu.edu_-7Esmetz3=DwIGaQ=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0=_pjUpH7SxKBkB6gBZH_r7a7W1q59Nzy5lPxFUOMH-UM=Qtc7CRLhR62m9Vglr6iyfbkAN62o5ohE_t06AvB1jyg=_iP0gQfCrV5cvBwSr_aeLuT6mLZoVSd29bf9vk1_rng=


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 5:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Pre-E SMP consisted entirely of PDS--PO because PDSE had not been invented yet. 
It was, as someone pointed out, a sort of elaborate RYO data base. In those 
days of molasses-inspired SLED, clunky CPUs, limited expensive central memory, 
and a far less sophisticated MVS than we enjoy today, a 'standard' SMP install 
could take forever. Hours. Days. Longer even than the MTTF of the 
infrastructure itself.

So SMP provided an alternative run mode. I forget the terminology, but it 
entailed reading entire PDS directories into memory, updating data in memory as 
required, then writing entire directories back out in one massive operation. 
The result was a far shorter elapsed time than the standard mode. Unless. 
Unless something went wrong, especially during the write-out phase. Could be a 
program failure; DASD error; power hiccup, spilled cup of coffee. At that point 
the entire SMP data base was trashed. So you restored the whole SMP environment 
and started over.

With or without ACCEPT, modern SMP/E is a miracle.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never 
ACCEPT?

>SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

No. Read what I actually wrote. The configuration information for an SMP4 or 
earlier environment is in multiple data sets, of which the CDS is only one. The 
CDS is the equivalent of a target zone, not of the entire CSI, and the manual 
you cited does not claim otherwise.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mason.gmu.edu_-7Esmetz3=DwIGaQ=_hRq4mqlUmqpqlyQ5hkoDXIVh6I6pxfkkNxQuL0p-Z0=_pjUpH7SxKBkB6gBZH_r7a7W1q59Nzy5lPxFUOMH-UM=Qtc7CRLhR62m9Vglr6iyfbkAN62o5ohE_t06AvB1jyg=_iP0gQfCrV5cvBwSr_aeLuT6mLZoVSd29bf9vk1_rng=


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30 ... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not t

Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

VSAM came out in the same time frame as SMP, Yes, pre-ICF VSAM had some issues, 
but the way that SMP misused member name was a true gargoyle.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 5:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Pre-E SMP consisted entirely of PDS--PO because PDSE had not been invented yet. 
It was, as someone pointed out, a sort of elaborate RYO data base. In those 
days of molasses-inspired SLED, clunky CPUs, limited expensive central memory, 
and a far less sophisticated MVS than we enjoy today, a 'standard' SMP install 
could take forever. Hours. Days. Longer even than the MTTF of the 
infrastructure itself.

So SMP provided an alternative run mode. I forget the terminology, but it 
entailed reading entire PDS directories into memory, updating data in memory as 
required, then writing entire directories back out in one massive operation. 
The result was a far shorter elapsed time than the standard mode. Unless. 
Unless something went wrong, especially during the write-out phase. Could be a 
program failure; DASD error; power hiccup, spilled cup of coffee. At that point 
the entire SMP data base was trashed. So you restored the whole SMP environment 
and started over.

With or without ACCEPT, modern SMP/E is a miracle.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never 
ACCEPT?

>SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

No. Read what I actually wrote. The configuration information for an SMP4 or 
earlier environment is in multiple data sets, of which the CDS is only one. The 
CDS is the equivalent of a target zone, not of the entire CSI, and the manual 
you cited does not claim otherwise.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30 ... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not to PDSes that 
contain actual elements.

-- gil


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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

IBM renamed  IMAPTFLE to HMAPTFLE for OS/VS1 and to AMAPTFLE for OS/VS2. See 
<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/370/OS_VS2/Release_1_1972/GC28-0633-1_OS_VS_Service_Aids_Sep72.pdf>.
 It was a far cry from SMP, e.g., no prerequisite or supersede processing.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Mike Hochee <mike.hoc...@aspg.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Yes, definitely something like that... AMAPTFLE.  It was mentioned in this 
NaSPA article as an SMP predecessor... 
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Tn5K0ThpWxgRGk9zMU6qHUUN9h6yTOzRrG-9Vin1D-Tc2SNRcR90wQROU-DJCj79QRy0gnfYafR8zslqpwow_-j6QXNbLlQjyoClPiGUXr-KzCUk99srwowPcVCBaavxZGx1UYq2eReyQREPwQ5FeUSXkuOGZgooiDmOacs97HY_GtMZ_qDiuQ-_WYUWL72PvJ45W-6tHNfOxwQKtjw0UJXLEpOEgVXArDBhYoTX8FZTZxcXa3zSEiPh0H-2cTqUQQkOsCSjOoCtfR8npVvAlCysgXepWh1mn0GpnayWpTdLqdEps-aS9E-i0QPVgvDPIP-WqRl256lSTA5mhffPDkswnRQD-yr9zEYGrbYp1-pyUU4bLj3zwMEo52YXLrQQ4m-4HWABJSl-ENNEAyDSudL-lxkTd6T7gOqv_heI9FfkNtpzPIo2zADpTIQ8JO5p/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naspa.net%2Fmagazine%2F2005%2F0705%2FT0507009.pdf

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I personally used SMP in 1975 on a S/360 running MFT.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2018, at 8:29 PM, Edward Gould <edgould1...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam <gada...@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS
>
> I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint 
> with another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but 
> something like iebptfle or something like that.
> Someone else, please confirm.
>
> Ed
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

?

You admit that you were not familiar with the background.

IBM carried forward AMAPTFLE 
<https://ia801902.us.archive.org/15/items/bitsavers_ibm360osR2rviceAidsRel21Mar72_14344562/GC28-6719-2_Service_Aids_Rel_21_Mar72.pdf>
 under the name AMAPTFLE, but it did not do what SMP did., or anything close. 
You can't even install a PTF that affects multiple target libraries, much less 
track dependencies.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Edward Gould <edgould1...@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam <gada...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS

I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint with 
another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but something 
like iebptfle or something like that.
Someone else, please confirm.

Ed


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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[David L. Craig]

On 18May23:2100-0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

> I personally used SMP in 1975 on a S/360 running MFT.

And as I said initially, I learned it on MVT (about a year
later than Gerhart).  And I am very glad I missed pre-SMP
OS/360 maintenance.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Mike Hochee]

Yes, definitely something like that... AMAPTFLE.  It was mentioned in this 
NaSPA article as an SMP predecessor... 
http://www.naspa.net/magazine/2005/0705/T0507009.pdf   

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I personally used SMP in 1975 on a S/360 running MFT.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2018, at 8:29 PM, Edward Gould <edgould1...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam <gada...@charter.net> wrote:
>> 
>> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS
> 
> I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint 
> with another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but 
> something like iebptfle or something like that.
> Someone else, please confirm.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

I personally used SMP in 1975 on a S/360 running MFT.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2018, at 8:29 PM, Edward Gould  wrote:

>> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam  wrote:
>> 
>> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS
> 
> I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint 
> with another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but 
> something like iebptfle or something like that.
> Someone else, please confirm.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Edward Gould]

> On May 23, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Gerhard Adam  wrote:
> 
> SMP was available in MVT and MFT.  It did not begin with MVS

I beg to differ. But I was new to the job and our senior sysprog did maint with 
another IBM program (which I do not remember but it was NOT SMP but something 
like iebptfle or something like that.
Someone else, please confirm.

Ed


--
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Pre-E SMP consisted entirely of PDS--PO because PDSE had not been invented yet. 
It was, as someone pointed out, a sort of elaborate RYO data base. In those 
days of molasses-inspired SLED, clunky CPUs, limited expensive central memory, 
and a far less sophisticated MVS than we enjoy today, a 'standard' SMP install 
could take forever. Hours. Days. Longer even than the MTTF of the 
infrastructure itself. 

So SMP provided an alternative run mode. I forget the terminology, but it 
entailed reading entire PDS directories into memory, updating data in memory as 
required, then writing entire directories back out in one massive operation. 
The result was a far shorter elapsed time than the standard mode. Unless. 
Unless something went wrong, especially during the write-out phase. Could be a 
program failure; DASD error; power hiccup, spilled cup of coffee. At that point 
the entire SMP data base was trashed. So you restored the whole SMP environment 
and started over.

With or without ACCEPT, modern SMP/E is a miracle.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never 
ACCEPT?

>SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

No. Read what I actually wrote. The configuration information for an SMP4 or 
earlier environment is in multiple data sets, of which the CDS is only one. The 
CDS is the equivalent of a target zone, not of the entire CSI, and the manual 
you cited does not claim otherwise.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30 ... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not to PDSes that 
contain actual elements.

-- gil


--
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

>SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

No. Read what I actually wrote. The configuration information for an SMP4 or 
earlier environment is in multiple data sets, of which the CDS is only one. The 
CDS is the equivalent of a target zone, not of the entire CSI, and the manual 
you cited does not claim otherwise.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not to PDSes that
contain actual elements.

-- gil

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 18:55:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
>CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
>
SMP/E for z/OS  IBM User's Guide SA23-2277-30
... appears to say otherwise:

The consolidated software inventory (CSI)
The CSI data sets contain all the information SMP/E needs to
track the distribution and target libraries. As the card catalog
contains a card for each book in the library, the CSI contains
an entry for each element in its libraries. The CSI entries
contain the element name, type, history, how the element was
introduced into the system, and a pointer to the element in the
distribution and target libraries.*The*CSI*does*not*contain*the
*element*itself*, but rather a description of the element it 
represents
[emphasis added]

This seems to use "CSI" to refer to the VSAM data sets, but not to PDSes that
contain actual elements.

-- gil

--
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

If I remember, the PTS still held the sysmods and the ACDS was for the 
distribution "zone" equivalent.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 11:55 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote:
> 
> The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
> CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
> Nims,Alva John (Al) <ajn...@ufl.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:50 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
> Yes, that was my mistake, I should have said the predecessor to the CSI was 
> the CDS, a PDS data set with that funny character in the member name.
> 
> Al Nims
> Systems Admin/Programmer III
> UF Information Technology
> East Campus
> P.O. Box 112050
> Gainesville, FL. 32611
> (e) ajn...@ufl.edu
> (p) (352) 273-1298
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:40 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
>> On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:05:29 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:
>> 
>> I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played
>> the role of the current CSI
>> 
> The rumor I heard (I wasn't there) is that, prior to VSAM, SMP used a PDS 
> directory as a makeshift data base.  Names of members (which needn't actually 
> exist) were limited to 7 bytes in order that the eighth could be used for 
> flags.
> 
> -- gil
> 
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

The CDS may have been an equivalent to a target zone, but not to the entire 
CSI. You won't get very far without a PTS and ACDS.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Nims,Alva John (Al) <ajn...@ufl.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Yes, that was my mistake, I should have said the predecessor to the CSI was the 
CDS, a PDS data set with that funny character in the member name.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
East Campus
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu
(p) (352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:05:29 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

>I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played
>the role of the current CSI
>
The rumor I heard (I wasn't there) is that, prior to VSAM, SMP used a PDS 
directory as a makeshift data base.  Names of members (which needn't actually 
exist) were limited to 7 bytes in order that the eighth could be used for flags.

-- gil

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Edward Gould]

> On May 23, 2018, at 9:08 AM, David L. Craig  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
>> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
>> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
>> had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
> here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
> it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
> ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
> of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
> faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance.  That also
> requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
> dates of the snapshots.

AFAIK smp (e)  did not exist during mvs 2.0 3.0(shakes on this one) and it came 
out with 3.7 (?)
Before smp there was tremendous and I do mean tremendous working by having to 
manually to the co, prerec's by hand. It was drudge work that needed a high 
amount of concentration and immersion.
I did it once and couldn’t handle the long hours needed. We printed a 
spreadsheet and it helped a little but still took copious amounts of time.
SMP was a godsend to sysprogs. I would venture to say that  MVS would have 
ended up in the dust pile for computer history without SMP. Yes it was 
cumbersome and the PDS’s needed and large number of directories was a real 
pain. VSAM saved SMP as well.
Ed

 


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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

Yes, that was my mistake, I should have said the predecessor to the CSI was the 
CDS, a PDS data set with that funny character in the member name.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
East Campus 
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
(p) (352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:05:29 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

>I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played 
>the role of the current CSI
> 
The rumor I heard (I wasn't there) is that, prior to VSAM, SMP used a PDS 
directory as a makeshift data base.  Names of members (which needn't actually 
exist) were limited to 7 bytes in order that the eighth could be used for flags.

-- gil

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 11:05:29 -0700, Gerhard Adam wrote:

>I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played the role 
>of the current CSI
> 
The rumor I heard (I wasn't there) is that, prior to VSAM, SMP used a PDS 
directory
as a makeshift data base.  Names of members (which needn't actually exist) were
limited to 7 bytes in order that the eighth could be used for flags.

-- gil

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

:) so nice to be called a newbe @60, I started out working for Sear ETO in 1977 
as an operator :( 
so yep, very green 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Seymour J Metz" <sme...@gmu.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:04:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

ObNewbie That was before MVSCP. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:10 PM 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

Ah yes, the SYSTEM GEN - MVSCP 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message - 

From: "Seymour J Metz" <sme...@gmu.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:54:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

War stories, yes, but I worked on OS/360 and OS/2 SVS before there was an SMP, 
and that was far worse. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:15 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times 



Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message - 

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote: 
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the 
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe 
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / 
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't 
> had a published PTF yet. 

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still 
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while 
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall 
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM. 
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots 
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much 
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also 
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the 
dates of the snapshots. 
-- 
 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! 

Dave_Craig__ 
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. 
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. 
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." 
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ 

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

No. The equivalent of the CSI was multiple data sets, starting with the PTS, 
CDS and ACDS.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Gerhard Adam <gada...@charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played the role 
of the current CSI

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote:
>
> The PTS, among others, was a PDS. SMP used very strange member names. There 
> was no CSI, no zones.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
> Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:11 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
>
> CSI not VSAM ?
>
>
> Carmen Vitullo
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Alva John Nims (Al)" <ajn...@ufl.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
>
> " I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
> the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!
>
> I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.
>
> Al Nims
> Systems Admin/Programmer III
> UF Information Technology
> East Campus
> P.O. Box 112050
> Gainesville, FL. 32611
> (e) ajn...@ufl.edu
> (p) (352) 273-1298
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David L. Craig
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
>
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>>
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP
>> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage -
>> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.
>
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last 
> used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM 
> MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and 
> DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
> maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
> --
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
>
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
>
> --
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> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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>
>
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

I think the reference may have been to the older SMP CDS which played the role 
of the current CSI

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote:
> 
> The PTS, among others, was a PDS. SMP used very strange member names. There 
> was no CSI, no zones.
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
> Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:11 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
> CSI not VSAM ?
> 
> 
> Carmen Vitullo
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "Alva John Nims (Al)" <ajn...@ufl.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
> " I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
> the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!
> 
> I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.
> 
> Al Nims
> Systems Admin/Programmer III
> UF Information Technology
> East Campus
> P.O. Box 112050
> Gainesville, FL. 32611
> (e) ajn...@ufl.edu
> (p) (352) 273-1298
> 
> -Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David L. Craig
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP
>> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage -
>> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last 
> used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM 
> MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and 
> DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
> maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
> --
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
> 
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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> 
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

ObNewbie That was before MVSCP.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

Ah yes, the SYSTEM GEN - MVSCP


Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "Seymour J Metz" <sme...@gmu.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:54:31 AM
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

War stories, yes, but I worked on OS/360 and OS/2 SVS before there was an SMP, 
and that was far worse.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times



Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
> had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
dates of the snapshots.
--

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

The PTS, among others, was a PDS. SMP used very strange member names. There was 
no CSI, no zones.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

CSI not VSAM ?


Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "Alva John Nims (Al)" <ajn...@ufl.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00:11 PM
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

" I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!

I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
East Campus
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu
(p) (352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David L. Craig
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP
> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage -
> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last used 
SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and DLIB 
volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
--

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

SMP3? I remember the original SMP, and the chaotic days before it.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Bill Hitefield <bill.hitefi...@dino-software.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

In my SysProg days (70s - 80s), I would ACCEPT maintenance, but only after we 
had run it for a while. PUT maintenance was relegated to weekends. I would 
backup the full environment before running the ACCEPT (saved my bacon a few 
times).



PS: Anybody else remember fighting with SMP v3? We were so happy when SMP v4 
came out. 



Bill Hitefield



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of 
Gerhard Adam
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?



I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy.  That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.



Sent from my iPhone



> On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig 
> <dlc@gmail.com<mailto:dlc@gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:

>>

>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on

>> MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe

>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage

>> - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

>

> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that

> can truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since

> I last used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT

> policy for any IBM MRM.

> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target

> and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing

> LOTS of maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB

> volume snapshot associations, which are not necessarily based upon the

> dates of the snapshots.

> --

> 

> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

>

> Dave_Craig__

> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.

> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.

> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."

> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

>

> --

> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

Sorry, but the CSI was never a PDS and still isn't.  I suspect you're thinking 
of the PTS

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Nims,Alva John (Al) <ajn...@ufl.edu> wrote:
> 
> " I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
> the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!
> 
> I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.
> 
> Al Nims
> Systems Admin/Programmer III
> UF Information Technology
> East Campus 
> P.O. Box 112050
> Gainesville, FL. 32611
> (e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
> (p) (352) 273-1298
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David L. Craig
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?
> 
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP 
>> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage - 
>> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
> truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last 
> used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM 
> MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and 
> DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
> maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
> --
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
> 
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
> 
> --
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[David Purdy]

I indeed remember SMP v4, especially v4.13 that ironically had bugs.  Circa 
1978/79 and very ugly.  Our PSR lived onsite for days.

David



On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 Bill Hitefield <bill.hitefi...@dino-software.com> 
wrote:
In my SysProg days (70s - 80s), I would ACCEPT maintenance, but only after we 
had run it for a while. PUT maintenance was relegated to weekends. I would 
backup the full environment before running the ACCEPT (saved my bacon a few 
times).



PS: Anybody else remember fighting with SMP v3? We were so happy when SMP v4 
came out. 



Bill Hitefield



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of 
Gerhard Adam
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?



I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy. That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.



Sent from my iPhone



> 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig 
<dlc@gmail.com<mailto:dlc@gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:

>>

>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on

>> MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe

>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage

>> - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

>

> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that

> can truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since

> I last used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT

> policy for any IBM MRM.

> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target

> and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing

> LOTS of maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB

> volume snapshot associations, which are not necessarily based upon the

> dates of the snapshots.

> --

> 

> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

>

> Dave_Craig__

> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.

> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.

> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."

> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

>

> --

> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send

> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN



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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Bill Hitefield]

In my SysProg days (70s - 80s), I would ACCEPT maintenance, but only after we 
had run it for a while. PUT maintenance was relegated to weekends. I would 
backup the full environment before running the ACCEPT (saved my bacon a few 
times).



PS: Anybody else remember fighting with SMP v3? We were so happy when SMP v4 
came out. 



Bill Hitefield



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of 
Gerhard Adam
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?



I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy.  That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.



Sent from my iPhone



> On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig 
> <dlc@gmail.com<mailto:dlc@gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:

>>

>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on

>> MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe

>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage

>> - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

>

> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that

> can truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since

> I last used SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT

> policy for any IBM MRM.

> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target

> and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing

> LOTS of maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB

> volume snapshot associations, which are not necessarily based upon the

> dates of the snapshots.

> --

> 

> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

>

> Dave_Craig__

> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.

> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.

> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."

> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

>

> --

> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send

> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN



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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

CSI not VSAM ? 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Alva John Nims (Al)" <ajn...@ufl.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:00:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

" I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe! 

I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process. 

Al Nims 
Systems Admin/Programmer III 
UF Information Technology 
East Campus 
P.O. Box 112050 
Gainesville, FL. 32611 
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
(p) (352) 273-1298 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David L. Craig 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote: 
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP 
> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe 
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage - 
> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet. 

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last used 
SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM. 
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and DLIB 
volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
maintenance. That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots. 
-- 
 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! 

Dave_Craig__ 
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. 
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. 
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." 
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ 

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Ah yes, the SYSTEM GEN - MVSCP 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Seymour J Metz" <sme...@gmu.edu> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:54:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

War stories, yes, but I worked on OS/360 and OS/2 SVS before there was an SMP, 
and that was far worse. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:15 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times 



Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message - 

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote: 
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the 
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe 
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / 
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't 
> had a published PTF yet. 

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still 
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while 
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall 
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM. 
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots 
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much 
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also 
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the 
dates of the snapshots. 
-- 
 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! 

Dave_Craig__ 
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. 
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. 
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." 
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ 

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

" I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?)" Answer: No, yes I remember SMP back before 
the "e" was added on, the CSI was a PDS! And not a PDSe!

I do not follow the 'Never ACCEPT" process.

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer III
UF Information Technology
East Campus 
P.O. Box 112050
Gainesville, FL. 32611
(e) ajn...@ufl.edu 
(p) (352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David L. Craig
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP 
> and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / ACCEPT usage - 
> except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still here that can 
truthfully make that statement?) and while it's been a while since I last used 
SMP/E, I do not recall ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots of target and DLIB 
volumes and restoring therefrom--much faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of 
maintenance.  That also requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the dates of the snapshots.
--

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

--
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Seymour J Metz]

War stories, yes, but I worked on OS/360 and OS/2 SVS before there was an SMP, 
and that was far worse.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo <cvitu...@hughes.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times



Carmen Vitullo

- Original Message -

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
> had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
dates of the snapshots.
--

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

--
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Gerhard Adam]

I also don't recall a "never ACCEPT" policy.  That would be silly because it 
becomes a "never RESTORE" policy.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 7:08 AM, David L. Craig  wrote:
> 
>> On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
>> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
>> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
>> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
>> had a published PTF yet.
> 
> I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
> here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
> it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
> ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
> But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
> of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
> faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance.  That also
> requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
> associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
> dates of the snapshots.
> -- 
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
> 
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
> You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
> Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

I'm so glad I did not have to use/work with SMP, I've heard the war stories and 
I think the backup everyone philosophy came from the old SMP V4 days and at the 
site I worked at, SMP/E I was still taught the standard of backing up all SMP/E 
datasets, target and DLIBS prior to any apply, it has saved my A$$ a couple 
times 



Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "David L. Craig" <dlc@gmail.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:08:45 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote: 
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the 
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe 
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while / 
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't 
> had a published PTF yet. 

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still 
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while 
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall 
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM. 
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots 
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much 
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance. That also 
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot 
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the 
dates of the snapshots. 
-- 
 
May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! 

Dave_Craig__ 
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. 
You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. 
Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe." 
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ 

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[David L. Craig]

On 18May23:1247+, Pommier, Rex wrote:
> 
> Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the
> mid-80s on MVS/SP and at my first SMP/E (and I believe
> only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a while /
> ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't
> had a published PTF yet.

I learned to use SMP back on MVT (am I the only one still
here that can truthfully make that statement?) and while
it's been a while since I last used SMP/E, I do not recall
ever encountering a no ACCEPT policy for any IBM MRM.
But people aren't mentioning policy for archiving snapshots
of target and DLIB volumes and restoring therefrom--much
faster than reAPPLYing LOTS of maintenance.  That also
requires tracking the target/DLIB volume snapshot
associations, which are not necessarily based upon the
dates of the snapshots.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Agree, my SMP/E class I took (Amdal) in the early 80's taught us the same, plus 
it was suggested we run the accept process (only sysmods(PTF) ) prior to 
applying of new maint. 
that philosophy right or wrong has worked great for me. 


NEVER ACCEPT USERMODS OR APARS - 


Carmen Vitullo 

- Original Message -

From: "Rex Pommier" <rpomm...@sfgmembers.com> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 7:47:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

Ed, 

Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP and at 
my first SMP/E (and I believe only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a 
while / ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published 
PTF yet. 

Rex 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 3:28 PM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT? 

z/OS Sysprogs, 

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be 
applied but never accepted. 

What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy? 
If so, why? 

Thanks, 

-- 
Phoenix Software International 
Edward E. Jaffe 
831 Parkview Drive North 
El Segundo, CA 90245 
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ 

 
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Re: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

[Pommier, Rex]

Ed,

Not sure how long ago eons was, but I started in the mid-80s on MVS/SP and at 
my first SMP/E (and I believe only) class, I was taught the APPLY / run for a 
while / ACCEPT usage - except for USERMODs or APARs that hadn't had a published 
PTF yet.  

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 3:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Old School Maintenance Philosophy -- Never ACCEPT?

z/OS Sysprogs,

ISTR a maintenance philosophy from "eons" ago where PTFs would be 
applied but never accepted.

What was the rationale for this? Does anyone still use this philosophy? 
If so, why?

Thanks,

-- 
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into
which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the
sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.

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is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this 
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