should follow those rules?
\u and \U are defined along with \x{hh} so does it make
sense to add something which is not part of ICU?
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On 09/12/14 13:07, Andrea Faulds wrote:
On 9 Dec 2014, at 08:15, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
If ICU is to be adopted as the base for unicode support, then surely
everything else should follow those rules?
\u and \U are defined along with \x{hh} so does it make
On 09/12/14 14:07, Andrea Faulds wrote:
On 9 Dec 2014, at 13:35, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
On 09/12/14 13:07, Andrea Faulds wrote:
On 9 Dec 2014, at 08:15, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
If ICU is to be adopted as the base for unicode support, then surely
everything
On 09/12/14 15:30, Rowan Collins wrote:
Lester Caine wrote on 09/12/2014 15:07:
On 09/12/14 14:07, Andrea Faulds wrote:
On 9 Dec 2014, at 13:35, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
On 09/12/14 13:07, Andrea Faulds wrote:
On 9 Dec 2014, at 08:15, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote
to a
'class' of static code is the easiest and fastest way of processing
material for web pages. We don't need to create magic get and set
routines for every element of the data, a simple array read is ALL that
is needed?
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of ICU as the
base for all the unicode developments, but can understand that this may
not play well with other installations of ICU on a system?
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thinking more like a C - C++ break
where the core procedural framework still works, but people can add OO
namespaces on top which do not have to be 'required'. I just don't see
how the 'everything must be exceptions' camp can be accommodated with
procedural error handling?
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to ensure that it will work on the
next release ... hiding things does not work.
And I still run my own version of PEAR to get around the e_strict problems!
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yet more sticking plasters.
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playing field to
code to!
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On 21/11/14 12:36, Jan Schneider wrote:
Zitat von Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk:
On 21/11/14 11:31, Rowan Collins wrote:
I know I sound like a broken record, but this is EXACTLY the same
problem as e_strict! It is all very well saying old code can still run
if you hide the the warnings
On 21/11/14 14:15, Rowan Collins wrote:
Lester Caine wrote on 21/11/2014 13:27:
No - There have been several threads on deprecating things that are
currently 'hidden' by e_strict. The confusion is created by having two
incompatible styles of coding, and unless one brings the 'non-e_strict
?
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the underlying security problems.
Tidy up what exists - don't create yet another set of functions that can
still be abused.
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in, and the 'suggested fixes' fail because the files are not where we
tell them. That is if the hosting company even allow access.
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up correctly, it's the fact that any
library can screw that up!
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of log files across many services to see if there are problems is
not something I want to spend my days doing!
Screwing up the code and then hiding the results is NOT maintaining BC!
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But while html5 validation does some of the job, some javascript will be
needed to fill the gaps ... with a fall back to PHP for non-html5 browsers.
Perhaps something does already exist that I'm missing?
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On 05/11/14 11:29, Andrea Faulds wrote:
On 5 Nov 2014, at 11:14, Leigh lei...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5 November 2014 10:57, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Before you fall of your chairs let me expand on that ...
Many of the sites I'm supporting are being chased by the we want your
safer
handled by removing e_strict from PHP5.4 rather than trying to live with
both versions of PHP.
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useful for day to day debugging, or more appropriate for
debugging the internal operation of PHP?
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On 04/11/14 09:37, Joe Watkins wrote:
On Tue, 2014-11-04 at 09:19 +, Lester Caine wrote:
On 04/11/14 06:00, Joe Watkins wrote:
I'm not saying we should not extend the features of phpdbg, but, we
should do it knowing what it actually is, knowing that it is
fundamentally different to xdebug
enough Java in the past to fix a few little niggles,
currently it is unable to cope with a number of new developments in PHP
so I'm stuck on just what IS the next move ... While it would be nice to
get on with some new code, nothing is stable enough these days to allow
that :(
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styles. Anything that is added to the 'core'
WILL be used to update third party code, but the rest of the
infrastructure is simply not keeping up.
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On 04/11/14 14:01, Florian Margaine wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk
mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
On 04/11/14 13:13, Florian Margaine wrote:
On the basis of 'If it's not broken', what is actually broken,
and what
?
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still awaiting is to be able to use the
unicode material I have in the databases directly in PHP arrays rather
than having to take care of ordering externally ... and that perhaps is
the only reason I didn't freeze ...
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The point about the debuggers was that THEY do exist as separate tools
and I think some of the other features being requested would also work
better as separate tools.
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is the
problem? Now expand the docblock key words and one does not have to
worry about clashes as it's all ring fenced.
Is the material needed at runtime? In which case 'minimize' can strip it
all. I can even see a case for /** being treated differently to /* and
// blocks if needs be.
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'php7' format ( but that will mess up php5 anyway? ), or I just carry on
using the php5 format to avoid having code which is problematic IN php5?
php5 needs this wrapped in comment blocks to hid it for BC reasons?
2014-11-04 22:11 GMT+01:00 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk:
On 04/11/14 20:18
nginx
handle it, only passing back to PHP when dynamic additions are required?
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is what we
are talking about? And one that provides a link to the underlying
content what ever it is? So arrays do exactly what they are good at and
allow a bucket of content to be managed as required? Trying to use the
'object' as a key is just wrong how ever one looks at it?
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On 30/10/14 15:06, Rowan Collins wrote:
On 30 October 2014 10:40:10 GMT, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
On 30/10/14 07:19, Will Fitch wrote:
The magic method is more of a PHP approach while an interface would
be more appropriate. That said, this RFC is a true representation of a
hash
create?
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?
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the webmaster list )
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of developers. Just because one thinks an idea is good does
not mean that everybody else has to adopt it. So what becomes 'main
stream' has to have common consensus and the voting rules provide that.
When was the vote on this rework taken?
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producing no answer. Especially if it is
going to fail in different inputs to other methods.
Again forcing an exception only solution sidesteps that debate!
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not break
the work flow!
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, or a previous action which avoids the question.
As Stas is saying ... Do we need another incomplete way of asking the
question. Would it not be better to tidy up what we have to give the
right answer in a way that suits each method of working?
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On 21/10/14 08:06, Joe Watkins wrote:
Now seems like a good time to start the conversation so we can hash out
the details, or get on with other things ;)
Does this address the problem of sorting array keys using a particular
language or collation?
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and so a more embedded handling is needed which may cut
across yet another content wrapper?
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On 21/10/14 12:11, Rowan Collins wrote:
Lester Caine wrote (on 21/10/2014):
If we are going down the root of keeping PHP7 as ascii only in the core,
then ustring probably makes sense, but it does not address many of the
areas where unicode is really needed.
Just a quick point: most
of Firebird
will actually start caching prepared statements on persistent
connections which I'm just waiting to play with!
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On 17/10/14 11:17, Ulf Wendel wrote:
Am 17.10.2014 um 11:51 schrieb Lester Caine:
On 16/10/14 18:59, christopher jones wrote:
Ulf stated early on in this thread re MySQL
- statement and parameter are send to the server independently
- the server builds the final statement string
and which do it natively? Just what does
get emulated?
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allowing more flexibility to make changes. I was always fobbed of
with 'It's only a number', but it IS a lot more than that. People are
now referring to a 10 year period for the next major, but 5 year steps
just seem a lot more manageable than 2 to 3 year steps?
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variables are passed with the URL, I may just use
$_GET but only because I know I'm GETting back the previous state. I
just don't see the need for this debate.
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bigints, and even in the future
most code won't need it. But for some code it would just work like
before, only with unlimited range now.
'bitinteger!'
I'm still waiting to see how we handle 'BIGINT' under this rfc since
that is something every database driver does need to handle.
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On 14/10/14 19:33, Andrea Faulds wrote:
On 14 Oct 2014, at 19:29, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
If a 64bit build of PHP is using a simple integer key for a BIGINT key
from the database, what will be the equivalent on a 32bit build?
It may be that we have to add code to the DB
is the current state of play with regards function and variable names?
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server base shows no cases where it is used.
Certainly some projects have changed comment coding style in the code
and irritatingly dropped docblock in favour of something else but I've
not see any example of # based ini comments?
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On 12/10/14 02:15, Rowan Collins wrote:
On 11/10/2014 10:13, Lester Caine wrote:
BIGINT is the SQL99-compliant 64-bit signed integer type
It's a matter of context. In C, and therefore in related discussions
(which includes the internals of PHP), integers are referred to as
short (for 16-bit
bundles mysql, mysqli and pdo_mysql in
the one package and I think most do?
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with the BIGINT standard which
is something we DO need is the problem here ...
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On 11/10/14 14:36, Pierre Joye wrote:
On Oct 11, 2014 4:14 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk
mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
On 11/10/14 01:18, Andrea Faulds wrote:
What you want is 64-bit data handling. This is arbitrary-bit
data handling. It’s not a “wrong approach”.
So BIGINT
the problems of them changing to long strings and I
don't see how GMP fixes that?
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On 11/10/14 00:28, Andrea Faulds wrote:
On 10 Oct 2014, at 23:20, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Is this the right approach to implement BIGINT?
I don't see the use of GMP to implement something as simple as native 64
bit numbers on 64 bit platforms as the right base.
Um, we
the array $a[0] as if it wasn't an array.
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on why manual assistance is more
appropriate. __toString() is one of those cases.
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that __toString will produce a unique
ID at all anyway? Adding a new function with that requirement just seems
overkill.
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On 25/09/14 08:44, Leigh wrote:
On 25 September 2014 08:40, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Why would we need to build a hash of this object? It would provide
nothing of use since we have a clean object key. Some people seem to
think a hash will provide an indication that an object
suppose, then, the license isn't an
issue.
Has any alternative to ICU been found yet as a base for unicode support
in PHP7 in general?
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to the RFC being voted on? But 7 days STILL seems too short
when like yourself Pierre, people can be out on the road for a week?
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will ACTUALLY make PHP more productive? PLEASE can we get
back to a level playing field and use PHP7 as a base to get something
stable and fully compatible with modern requirements. Only put stuff in
PHP5 now that is NEEDED so we can finally catch up!
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type gets passed, the problem in the code is
elsewhere anyway?
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than trying to fix more edge cases in isolation?
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particularly 'nasty' only the
sort of changes that do creep in when code gets re-factored? If that is
all that comes up then it shows just what a good job is being done by
the software crew!
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especially
if it then needs further changes in the same area?
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as a mechanism that could provide
this level of checking as it seems to have lost support, and I still
don't find PDT as capable in this sort of area :(
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. The question of
multiple case blocks has been flagged, and thinking about it, I quite
often copy, paste and forget to update the label ;) Even the IDE does
not flag that ... it's only when it does not work ...
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is still 'normal
practice' rather than 'by design' :)
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myself simply
because I rely on extensions that have not been ported yet and despite
trying to work through all the new documentation I can't see as yet how
I could do that work myself :(
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is having now to use intdiv() just in case an
overflow does occur which was not present on the 32bit version?
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...
What ever happened to the x86 80bit precision floating point which had a
64bit fraction ;)
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of 'bigint' would still not be usable
on 32bit hardware?
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aught to be benchmarking?
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is getting too old and has to evolve with the time, yet the primary
development language is 25+ years old and the suggestion to move it on
10 years raises objections.
On one hand if it's not broken ... on the other software must be changed
every year ...
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which would
normally be a 2/3rds decision? So there should be an agreement that
these can be reviewed again later?
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? Is it because compiled builds are fully supported?
Certainly if any of my own sites traffic started to take off I would be
looking down that avenue, so while improving the speed of interpreted
working is important, it is still stability in the language that blocks
uptake?
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is almost pointless
as agreement has already been reached so there is no need to waste the
time ... where things are split it was the fact that voters could not
see the status that was complained about more.
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into some other format. Surely what would make more sense
here is simply to make the type_flag either true or false, and retain
the IS_BOOL as a single identifiable type? Having two types both
indicating 'bool' just seems wrong.
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On 23/07/14 09:12, Laruence wrote:
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
I'm trying to work through some of the more subtle changes in phpng and
one that sticks out is the loss of IS_BOOL. I think the explanation is
that it removes a read, but while I'm
everything into a framework which can manage
both translations and integral cross linking, and gives a single front
end to everything on the website ...
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as confusing ;)
There will be ridicule either way, so that is no reason for reusing a
version number again. We just tag PHP6 exactly as it is documented -
closed in 2010 - a fact that seems to have been dropped again from the
arguments in the RFC :(
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progress, and
if phpng has been developed properly then it can be merged in again
later ...
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.
Is that such a bad thing?
Perhaps it is time there was a PHPHome and PHPCommercial ?
Perhaps that is the problem these days :(
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Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http
from an extension developer point of
view, or very little. On the other APIs are more dangerous, confusing
and inconsistent.
And unavailability of extensions is a blocker currently as well.
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Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
is
not even included in phpng yet ... as are other database interfaces ...
areas where performance can be tuned by offloading work rather than
downloading data unnecessarily.
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Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic
to reflect
all changes.
It is only then that we can vote with knowledge of how much this big
patch affects the codebase.
*this* is something I very much would like to see too.
Zend has a new zend_string API would seem to merit a little more than
a single line?
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
discussions on PHPNext together. PHP7 is simply the next obvious hook
given that PHP6 is contaminated with such a large existing history.
Making a decision now simply clears up what is currently an untenable
situation!
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki
the discussion is not so much PHP6 or PHP7, but rather do we reopen the
PHP6 branch again ... or honour the previous closing of that branch.
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Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve
where it had an existence even
without a formal release.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http
reason to
create yet another PHP6 branch at this time? What else CAN be said in
favour of reopening something that has already been closed ...
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
I'm trying to reiterate and expand on is that the integer base
size is as important here as integer division, and one size does not fit
all.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
to be brought into the 21st
century consistently, yet still work on the historic machines some
people stile prefer ... just as PHP needs to handle unicode
transparently it also needs to handle 64bit integers ...
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Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page
with
E_STRICT - so we need at least a litle cooperation, rather than someone
dictating that a new way of working is the only way ofrward.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
but I'm looking at all that is going
on and wondering how much more work will be required once I have finally
killed off the 5.2 sites! It would help if I could reliably retain the
correct versions of third party libraries, but often that is not possible.
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
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