Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 1:04 AM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: WordPress multi-site might be worth a try. I am sure if I spent a lot of time modifying the plug-in, I might be able to get it to work. One issue Do plugins not necessarily support it out of the box? Rather annoying if they don't, but it wouldn't surprise me considering how Wordpress Multi-Site is designed... with modifying plug-ins is that any updates to WordPress or other plug-ins could be a problem. If there is an update by the plug-in author or WordPress, there is no easy way to patch it in. Could we try contributing any necessary patches to the upstream plugin? I did see in a different email thread that Ben mentioned something about content in WordPress multi-site being shared. With how I understand WordPress multi-site, these are the main differences Sorry, by content I meant things like themes. WordPress Multisite 1. Has a new role Super User that controls all sites 2. New network admin area. Plugins and themes are installed here and managed for each site. Only Super Users can do this (probably Ben) 3. Out of the 11 database tables that WordPress usually creates for a single site, 9 of those are duplicated for each new site. This keeps the content separate This might be a good project to test WordPress multi-site out. I will help in any way I can. Scott Regards, Ben On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 7:19 AM, Ben Cooksley bcooks...@kde.org wrote: On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: The way we are designing this QA site, I am starting to think it is a bit clumsy. This answer to a question will always be specific to a project. Even if we get the filtering thing to work, it will always need to be filtered on every page. Every project will have to have this sticky state - hiding all other project questions and answers from the end user. It adds a level of 'required configuration' that doesn't exist in QA sites. This just seems clunky and unnecessary. I almost feel that this solution needs to take a slightly different approach. 1. Have http://answers.kde.org/kde/ go to a KDE specific QA site. What is KDE. How do I help with translations. Things like that. http://answers.kde.org could also redirect to here 2. From there, individual projects will need to request their own QA site if they really think they are wanting one. Krita would be ( https://answers.kde.org/krita/ ) With the Krita pilot site, KDE will be able to decide if the WordPress + plugin is a good standard for any future infrastructure requests. If the Krita version is successful, I could also help if KDE wants to have a more general purpose KDE themed version. This KDE version could also be the base theme for any new projects that are created in the future. How does this direction sound? Are there technical hurdles with this? What are the downsides? This direction is fine with me, assuming the current plugin can't work with all applications sharing the same instance. I'd recommend we use Wordpress Multi-Site functionality as the core is essentially the same for each subsite. Scott Cheers, Ben On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: Alright. Carl - I think once we start adding content to this and use it, we don't want to have the possibility of everything being deleted. A lot of people are going to be spending time building this up. It would be disheartening since this is part of a support system. Links will be pointing to this in blogs. We will be referencing it in IRC and forums - in addition to any SEO benefits that would be lost in the trial months. We need to get a good long term solution in place and then roll with it. I think that will create more confidence and drive higher usage as well. Rick - you seem to have a solution for this. Do you want to take a stab at making the fixes? With the direction we were going, we were wanting to have the search be filtered by category. Also, it would be nice to have a URL that would make the categories sticky. That way when you are on a product, it will stay on that project. This will make it easier for a project to link to the QA site and they know everything will be filtered by their project. If interested, you can probably put in a infrastructure support ticket to get access (https://sysadmin.kde.org/tickets/). For the styling, we will have to make it KDE styled since it will be for all projects. Making the design look like Krita branding would be confusing. Scott On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Rick.Timmis rick.tim...@abazander.com wrote: Sent from my Dragon 32 Carl Symons carlsym...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/13/2015 06:02 PM, Scott Petrovic wrote: I started configuring the QA site plugin.
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I think I am mixing up conversations. To clarify, if we do a WordPress multi-site, The QA plug-in will work perfect without any modification. For themes, I am sure different sites can have different themes if they need them.That would be odd if all sites had to share the same theme. I will still have to make a theme for Krita and KDE, but that will be the case regardless of what direction we go. Scott On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:28 AM, Ben Cooksley bcooks...@kde.org wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 1:04 AM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: WordPress multi-site might be worth a try. I am sure if I spent a lot of time modifying the plug-in, I might be able to get it to work. One issue Do plugins not necessarily support it out of the box? Rather annoying if they don't, but it wouldn't surprise me considering how Wordpress Multi-Site is designed... with modifying plug-ins is that any updates to WordPress or other plug-ins could be a problem. If there is an update by the plug-in author or WordPress, there is no easy way to patch it in. Could we try contributing any necessary patches to the upstream plugin? I did see in a different email thread that Ben mentioned something about content in WordPress multi-site being shared. With how I understand WordPress multi-site, these are the main differences Sorry, by content I meant things like themes. WordPress Multisite 1. Has a new role Super User that controls all sites 2. New network admin area. Plugins and themes are installed here and managed for each site. Only Super Users can do this (probably Ben) 3. Out of the 11 database tables that WordPress usually creates for a single site, 9 of those are duplicated for each new site. This keeps the content separate This might be a good project to test WordPress multi-site out. I will help in any way I can. Scott Regards, Ben On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 7:19 AM, Ben Cooksley bcooks...@kde.org wrote: On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: The way we are designing this QA site, I am starting to think it is a bit clumsy. This answer to a question will always be specific to a project. Even if we get the filtering thing to work, it will always need to be filtered on every page. Every project will have to have this sticky state - hiding all other project questions and answers from the end user. It adds a level of 'required configuration' that doesn't exist in QA sites. This just seems clunky and unnecessary. I almost feel that this solution needs to take a slightly different approach. 1. Have http://answers.kde.org/kde/ go to a KDE specific QA site. What is KDE. How do I help with translations. Things like that. http://answers.kde.org could also redirect to here 2. From there, individual projects will need to request their own QA site if they really think they are wanting one. Krita would be ( https://answers.kde.org/krita/ ) With the Krita pilot site, KDE will be able to decide if the WordPress + plugin is a good standard for any future infrastructure requests. If the Krita version is successful, I could also help if KDE wants to have a more general purpose KDE themed version. This KDE version could also be the base theme for any new projects that are created in the future. How does this direction sound? Are there technical hurdles with this? What are the downsides? This direction is fine with me, assuming the current plugin can't work with all applications sharing the same instance. I'd recommend we use Wordpress Multi-Site functionality as the core is essentially the same for each subsite. Scott Cheers, Ben On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: Alright. Carl - I think once we start adding content to this and use it, we don't want to have the possibility of everything being deleted. A lot of people are going to be spending time building this up. It would be disheartening since this is part of a support system. Links will be pointing to this in blogs. We will be referencing it in IRC and forums - in addition to any SEO benefits that would be lost in the trial months. We need to get a good long term solution in place and then roll with it. I think that will create more confidence and drive higher usage as well. Rick - you seem to have a solution for this. Do you want to take a stab at making the fixes? With the direction we were going, we were wanting to have the search be filtered by category. Also, it would be nice to have a URL that would make the categories sticky. That way when you are on a product, it will stay on that project. This will make it easier for a project to link to the QA site
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
WordPress multi-site might be worth a try. I am sure if I spent a lot of time modifying the plug-in, I might be able to get it to work. One issue with modifying plug-ins is that any updates to WordPress or other plug-ins could be a problem. If there is an update by the plug-in author or WordPress, there is no easy way to patch it in. I did see in a different email thread that Ben mentioned something about content in WordPress multi-site being shared. With how I understand WordPress multi-site, these are the main differences WordPress Multisite 1. Has a new role Super User that controls all sites 2. New network admin area. Plugins and themes are installed here and managed for each site. Only Super Users can do this (probably Ben) 3. Out of the 11 database tables that WordPress usually creates for a single site, 9 of those are duplicated for each new site. This keeps the content separate This might be a good project to test WordPress multi-site out. I will help in any way I can. Scott On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 7:19 AM, Ben Cooksley bcooks...@kde.org wrote: On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: The way we are designing this QA site, I am starting to think it is a bit clumsy. This answer to a question will always be specific to a project. Even if we get the filtering thing to work, it will always need to be filtered on every page. Every project will have to have this sticky state - hiding all other project questions and answers from the end user. It adds a level of 'required configuration' that doesn't exist in QA sites. This just seems clunky and unnecessary. I almost feel that this solution needs to take a slightly different approach. 1. Have http://answers.kde.org/kde/ go to a KDE specific QA site. What is KDE. How do I help with translations. Things like that. http://answers.kde.org could also redirect to here 2. From there, individual projects will need to request their own QA site if they really think they are wanting one. Krita would be ( https://answers.kde.org/krita/ ) With the Krita pilot site, KDE will be able to decide if the WordPress + plugin is a good standard for any future infrastructure requests. If the Krita version is successful, I could also help if KDE wants to have a more general purpose KDE themed version. This KDE version could also be the base theme for any new projects that are created in the future. How does this direction sound? Are there technical hurdles with this? What are the downsides? This direction is fine with me, assuming the current plugin can't work with all applications sharing the same instance. I'd recommend we use Wordpress Multi-Site functionality as the core is essentially the same for each subsite. Scott Cheers, Ben On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: Alright. Carl - I think once we start adding content to this and use it, we don't want to have the possibility of everything being deleted. A lot of people are going to be spending time building this up. It would be disheartening since this is part of a support system. Links will be pointing to this in blogs. We will be referencing it in IRC and forums - in addition to any SEO benefits that would be lost in the trial months. We need to get a good long term solution in place and then roll with it. I think that will create more confidence and drive higher usage as well. Rick - you seem to have a solution for this. Do you want to take a stab at making the fixes? With the direction we were going, we were wanting to have the search be filtered by category. Also, it would be nice to have a URL that would make the categories sticky. That way when you are on a product, it will stay on that project. This will make it easier for a project to link to the QA site and they know everything will be filtered by their project. If interested, you can probably put in a infrastructure support ticket to get access (https://sysadmin.kde.org/tickets/). For the styling, we will have to make it KDE styled since it will be for all projects. Making the design look like Krita branding would be confusing. Scott On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Rick.Timmis rick.tim...@abazander.com wrote: Sent from my Dragon 32 Carl Symons carlsym...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/13/2015 06:02 PM, Scott Petrovic wrote: I started configuring the QA site plugin. https://answers.kde.org/ You can search for questions or add your own. One issue I am having with this plug-in is you cannot filter by category(product) before you ask a question. All of the different products get lumped together in the same search. For the questions I made, typing in transform will bring up questions in multiple products. There is no way to tell what product a question belongs to
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
The way we are designing this QA site, I am starting to think it is a bit clumsy. This answer to a question will always be specific to a project. Even if we get the filtering thing to work, it will always need to be filtered on every page. Every project will have to have this sticky state - hiding all other project questions and answers from the end user. It adds a level of 'required configuration' that doesn't exist in QA sites. This just seems clunky and unnecessary. I almost feel that this solution needs to take a slightly different approach. 1. Have http://answers.kde.org/kde/ go to a KDE specific QA site. What is KDE. How do I help with translations. Things like that. http://answers.kde.org could also redirect to here 2. From there, individual projects will need to request their own QA site if they really think they are wanting one. Krita would be ( https://answers.kde.org/krita/ ) With the Krita pilot site, KDE will be able to decide if the WordPress + plugin is a good standard for any future infrastructure requests. If the Krita version is successful, I could also help if KDE wants to have a more general purpose KDE themed version. This KDE version could also be the base theme for any new projects that are created in the future. How does this direction sound? Are there technical hurdles with this? What are the downsides? Scott On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: Alright. Carl - I think once we start adding content to this and use it, we don't want to have the possibility of everything being deleted. A lot of people are going to be spending time building this up. It would be disheartening since this is part of a support system. Links will be pointing to this in blogs. We will be referencing it in IRC and forums - in addition to any SEO benefits that would be lost in the trial months. We need to get a good long term solution in place and then roll with it. I think that will create more confidence and drive higher usage as well. Rick - you seem to have a solution for this. Do you want to take a stab at making the fixes? With the direction we were going, we were wanting to have the search be filtered by category. Also, it would be nice to have a URL that would make the categories sticky. That way when you are on a product, it will stay on that project. This will make it easier for a project to link to the QA site and they know everything will be filtered by their project. If interested, you can probably put in a infrastructure support ticket to get access (https://sysadmin.kde.org/tickets/). For the styling, we will have to make it KDE styled since it will be for all projects. Making the design look like Krita branding would be confusing. Scott On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Rick.Timmis rick.tim...@abazander.com wrote: Sent from my Dragon 32 Carl Symons carlsym...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/13/2015 06:02 PM, Scott Petrovic wrote: I started configuring the QA site plugin. https://answers.kde.org/ You can search for questions or add your own. One issue I am having with this plug-in is you cannot filter by category(product) before you ask a question. All of the different products get lumped together in the same search. For the questions I made, typing in transform will bring up questions in multiple products. There is no way to tell what product a question belongs to currently. Out of the solutions that I have found, I haven't seen a QA site solution that is designed in the direction we were going (select a category, then ask a question). Does anyone else have any thoughts? Scott My first thought is that this is not ready for general KDE QA. The plan was to get the wrinkles out with Krita, using this as a pilot (and dev site). People need to know that it is likely that there will be major tweaks, as well as the possibility that all the data may disappear. I agree with you Scott. I would expect to be able to look for questions dealing with Krita and not get other products. It doesn't work like I thought it would. Carl Hi I think the Ajax type ahead search might be the cause of the problem. I don't think it will work well with lots of data and results. Also it is most likely not honouring the category selected. Can it be turned off ? I really like this as a starting point, clean, simple and the categories are perfect for KDE Applications. Support for wildcard entries would be good too. So far I like it Rick On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org mailto:b...@valdyas.org wrote: -- Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org On Wed, 6 May 2015, Luca Beltrame wrote: Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Hello Boudewijn, first of all thanks for replying. model. The forum encourages discussion and sharing work, while here we
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Sent from my Dragon 32Carl Symons carlsym...@gmail.com wrote:On 05/13/2015 06:02 PM, Scott Petrovic wrote: I started configuring the QA site plugin. https://answers.kde.org/ You can search for questions or add your own. One issue I am having with this plug-in is you cannot filter by category(product) before you ask a question. All of the different products get lumped together in the same search. For the questions I made, typing in transform will bring up questions in multiple products. There is no way to tell what product a question belongs to currently. Out of the solutions that I have found, I haven't seen a QA site solution that is designed in the direction we were going (select a category, then ask a question). Does anyone else have any thoughts? Scott My first thought is that this is not ready for general KDE QA. The plan was to get the wrinkles out with Krita, using this as a pilot (and dev site). People need to know that it is likely that there will be major tweaks, as well as the possibility that all the data may disappear. I agree with you Scott. I would expect to be able to look for questions dealing with Krita and not get other products. It doesn't work like I thought it would. Carl Hi I think the Ajax type ahead search might be the cause of the problem. I don't think it will work well with lots of data and results. Also it is most likely not honouring the category selected. Can it be turned off ? I really like this as a starting point, clean, simple and the categories are perfect for KDE Applications. Support for wildcard entries would be good too. So far I like it Rick On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org mailto:b...@valdyas.org wrote: -- Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org On Wed, 6 May 2015, Luca Beltrame wrote: Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Hello Boudewijn, first of all thanks for replying. model. The forum encourages discussion and sharing work, while here we want to have a question per topic, answers, and a kind of game system Do you think that such a way would be better suited for Krita? I ask because at least in the forums I man (not Krita, you guys are too good at it yourselves ;) I see (still occasionally though) other users stepping in and giving advice (this is most evident in the Plasma 5 forum). Well, as I said, it's mostly a different kind of interaction, so what I want is give users what they're expecting: a forum for wide-ranging discussion-type interaction and a qa site for questions and answers. The one doesn't replace the other. OK, that's not the level of involvement I'd like to see, but it's a start. where answers can be upvoted or downvoted and marked as correct. And then the site must be easily searchable. This last sentence warrants some additional questions: what are issues w/search? It's a matter of how google indexes stuff, I'd say. Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org mailto:kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I started configuring the QA site plugin. https://answers.kde.org/ You can search for questions or add your own. One issue I am having with this plug-in is you cannot filter by category(product) before you ask a question. All of the different products get lumped together in the same search. For the questions I made, typing in transform will bring up questions in multiple products. There is no way to tell what product a question belongs to currently. Out of the solutions that I have found, I haven't seen a QA site solution that is designed in the direction we were going (select a category, then ask a question). Does anyone else have any thoughts? Scott On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: -- Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org On Wed, 6 May 2015, Luca Beltrame wrote: Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Hello Boudewijn, first of all thanks for replying. model. The forum encourages discussion and sharing work, while here we want to have a question per topic, answers, and a kind of game system Do you think that such a way would be better suited for Krita? I ask because at least in the forums I man (not Krita, you guys are too good at it yourselves ;) I see (still occasionally though) other users stepping in and giving advice (this is most evident in the Plasma 5 forum). Well, as I said, it's mostly a different kind of interaction, so what I want is give users what they're expecting: a forum for wide-ranging discussion-type interaction and a qa site for questions and answers. The one doesn't replace the other. OK, that's not the level of involvement I'd like to see, but it's a start. where answers can be upvoted or downvoted and marked as correct. And then the site must be easily searchable. This last sentence warrants some additional questions: what are issues w/search? It's a matter of how google indexes stuff, I'd say. Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Sorry for breaking threading. When kmail2 ate my mail recently I had to move away to pine and make a fresh start. It also means I didn't see this mail by Luca. Krita developers) to give user support. I started this topic because of a demand from our userbase for a question-and-answer website where they would do user-support _themselves_. Pardon my honest ignorance again (this is not rhetorical, I really am ignorant on the topic), but in this case why are the forums unsuited? The forums are awesome, and we make a lot of use of it for Krita, but a question-and-answers site like stackexchange has a different interaction model. The forum encourages discussion and sharing work, while here we want to have a question per topic, answers, and a kind of game system where answers can be upvoted or downvoted and marked as correct. And then the site must be easily searchable. Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I am not sure if this post is going to get attached to the right thread, but here goes. In regards to Luca's comment about the difference between forums and QA sites... Forum - a place for discussion. This could be a question, an idea that needs to be brainstormed, complaints, gathering feedback, or other forms of extended discussion. It is open, so there is nothing right or wrong. QA site - focus is only on solving a specific problem. A topic that is not a question is technically invalid and should be removed or closed. The best answer is often times voted on. If you think about why we go online, a percentage of the time is because we have a problem we would like to have answered. What is this weird error message, or how do I change the wiper blades on my car. All we want is the best answer the internet has. I am guessing the efficiency of solving the above use case is why QA sites are so popular these days. While technically forums have the capability of doing what a QA site, they don't have the focus that people are looking for. That is how I understand the different. I don't remember the specifics of the original request with how this came up. QA site may or may not be the solution depending on what our end goal is. those are my thoughts. On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Luca Beltrame lbeltr...@kde.org wrote: Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Hello Boudewijn, first of all thanks for replying. model. The forum encourages discussion and sharing work, while here we want to have a question per topic, answers, and a kind of game system Do you think that such a way would be better suited for Krita? I ask because at least in the forums I man (not Krita, you guys are too good at it yourselves ;) I see (still occasionally though) other users stepping in and giving advice (this is most evident in the Plasma 5 forum). OK, that's not the level of involvement I'd like to see, but it's a start. where answers can be upvoted or downvoted and marked as correct. And then the site must be easily searchable. This last sentence warrants some additional questions: what are issues w/search? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Hello Boudewijn, first of all thanks for replying. model. The forum encourages discussion and sharing work, while here we want to have a question per topic, answers, and a kind of game system Do you think that such a way would be better suited for Krita? I ask because at least in the forums I man (not Krita, you guys are too good at it yourselves ;) I see (still occasionally though) other users stepping in and giving advice (this is most evident in the Plasma 5 forum). OK, that's not the level of involvement I'd like to see, but it's a start. where answers can be upvoted or downvoted and marked as correct. And then the site must be easily searchable. This last sentence warrants some additional questions: what are issues w/search? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 4:10 AM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: I am at a WordPress conference now and am getting some feedback about this QA platform. They mentioned trying a WordPress plugin called CM-Answers. If we use that, that would make it easier since it would still be on the WordPress platform. Maybe I can send a request to create a http://qa.krita.org subdomain with a WordPress install. They also recommended setting up a Multi-Site install. That way we could potentially have multiple instances for different languages if needed. The way Wordpress multi site works doesn't work with the way we deploy web software. While it is quite convenient from the web interface, it is a nightmare from a security point of view. All the sites are mixed in the same database, which means you breach one site and you own them all. It also makes it more difficult for a sysadmin to archive and backup individual sites. The mixing of core Wordpress and site specific plugins along with content makes upgrades difficult enough :) (If they're interested in feedback, they can look at how Drupal does it and take a leaf out of that book, it wouldn't make deployment more complicated for simple setups but would make complex setups like ours much easier to administer). I am going to request a sub-domain and see what I can do with this plug-in. Does anyone have issues with tha?. GIT repo for it https://github.com/wp-plugins/cm-answers Scott Cheers, Ben On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: On Sun, 1 Mar 2015, Luca Beltrame wrote: Dmitry Kazakov wrote: I asked for a kind of knowledge base, where I (developer) could search for popular answers really quickly and copy/paste the link into IRC/social networks to help people with their (really trivial and common) problems. A question: what does UserBase lack to be properly used as knowledge base? It's a wiki, that is a big set of unstructured, unrelated but interlinked pages on a huge set of unrelated topics. Wiki's have got their place, but they aren't suitable for a knowledgebase. In a knowledge base, you need to have a fixed format for every page: question or problem statement, set of answers, ability to mark a particular answer as authoritative. And of course, really good searching. But note that when I started this topic it was _NOT_ about Dmitry's need for a knowledge base that would it make easy for him (or me, or other Krita developers) to give user support. I started this topic because of a demand from our userbase for a question-and-answer website where they would do user-support _themselves_. Boudewijn ___ Krita mailing list kimages...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I am at a WordPress conference now and am getting some feedback about this QA platform. They mentioned trying a WordPress plugin called CM-Answers. If we use that, that would make it easier since it would still be on the WordPress platform. Maybe I can send a request to create a http://qa.krita.org subdomain with a WordPress install. They also recommended setting up a Multi-Site install. That way we could potentially have multiple instances for different languages if needed. I am going to request a sub-domain and see what I can do with this plug-in. Does anyone have issues with tha?. GIT repo for it https://github.com/wp-plugins/cm-answers Scott On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: On Sun, 1 Mar 2015, Luca Beltrame wrote: Dmitry Kazakov wrote: I asked for a kind of knowledge base, where I (developer) could search for popular answers really quickly and copy/paste the link into IRC/social networks to help people with their (really trivial and common) problems. A question: what does UserBase lack to be properly used as knowledge base? It's a wiki, that is a big set of unstructured, unrelated but interlinked pages on a huge set of unrelated topics. Wiki's have got their place, but they aren't suitable for a knowledgebase. In a knowledge base, you need to have a fixed format for every page: question or problem statement, set of answers, ability to mark a particular answer as authoritative. And of course, really good searching. But note that when I started this topic it was _NOT_ about Dmitry's need for a knowledge base that would it make easy for him (or me, or other Krita developers) to give user support. I started this topic because of a demand from our userbase for a question-and-answer website where they would do user-support _themselves_. Boudewijn ___ Krita mailing list kimages...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015, Rick.Timmis wrote: Hi Dmitry Thank you for this email, it makes the context, and reason, clear. I think a Wiki style solution wojld be best, but care must be taken to manage its house keeping. And that's exactly why a wiki style solution isn't any good. Taking care with housekeeping means that the thing will be a mess in no-time. What would be really cool is an IRC Bot that could then search the Wiki and post links back. Rick Timmis Sent from my Dragon 32 Dmitry Kazakov dimul...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I'm sorry for jumping in a bit lately. My initial request on IRC, which resulted in this stackoverflow discussion was the following: I asked for a kind of knowledge base, where I (developer) could search for popular answers really quickly and copy/paste the link into IRC/social networks to help people with their (really trivial and common) problems. The point is there are lots and lots trivial questions which will be being asked or raised regularly, so we need to have them somewhere in easy access. Examples: 1) How to generate a tablet log? 2) How to compile Krita? 3) How to generate a backtrace for Krita crash? Right now I use launchpad's framework, but it is really-really limited. You cannot even add a screenshot :( Here: https://answers.launchpad.net/krita-ru/+faqs So I was even though about moving all these answers into wiki, but it seems like a special solution like LampCMS might help better in this situation. The requirements for this system for me: 1) Easy to add a pair Question/Answer (yep, self-dialog) 2) Easy to search for a question, and easy to paste the link to an answer on IRC 3) The ability for users to ask/answer questions is nice, but for me it is secondary :) On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have comments on LampCMS? https://github.com/snytkine/LampCMS These are why I think it is the best solution for KDE as a platform 1. Open source. We can take the source code and add it to the infrastructure (so it is KDE hosted) 2. It has easy access for logging in (facebook, twitter, linkedIn, Google+). 3. While though it doesn't have a large developer base, it seems moderately maintained. For the Krita instance of this, I was planning on re-skinning it after it would be hosted, so it should look quite nice and consistent. For the point of view about bad answers being written... Even looking at Krita's documentation on KDE, it is not up to date. In other words, there are errors for anyone that tries to download Krita now and seek instruction from the 'source'. We have to realize that as a user base gets larger, it will become impossible for developers to answer the amount of questions people have. We have to think of a better way to rely on the community to help us with this aspect. We already ask the non-KDE community to do things like find bug fixes, feature requests, an test builds. Having people help is usually a good idea (I think most of us here are volunteers). There will be bad answers on the QA platform. There will also be excellent answers as well. People expect there to be bad answers on a QA platform. People expect the voting system to help filter out the bad, not eliminate it . It is possible that you will get bad answers from doing a google search. Does that stop you from using search engines? those are my thoughts Scott On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: I'm fine with anything that Scott likes :-) I'd really like to experiment with this. Who knows, it might be valuable experience for other KDE projects as well. So, what's the next step? On Wed, 25 Feb 2015, Scott Petrovic wrote: I think Laszlo's suggestion with OSQA looks like a pretty good solution. I personally think a slightly better open source one is Lamp CMS http://support.lampcms.com/ I would personally prefer using Lamp CMS only because it integrates directly with other popular platforms like Google+ and Facebook. This is less friction for people to post questions and answers without having to sign up for yet another account. Not sure if social media integration is considered a 'dependency' though. Scott On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: http://www.osqa.net/ StackExchange is a commercial entity without open source accessbility to the implementation. Also, you need to comply with what StackExchange likes in the end of the day. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: This is a question that came up on the #krita
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Hi Dmitry Thank you for this email, it makes the context, and reason, clear. I think a Wiki style solution wojld be best, but care must be taken to manage its house keeping. What would be really cool is an IRC Bot that could then search the Wiki and post links back. Rick Timmis Sent from my Dragon 32Dmitry Kazakov dimul...@gmail.com wrote:Hi! I'm sorry for jumping in a bit lately. My initial request on IRC, which resulted in this stackoverflow discussion was the following: I asked for a kind of knowledge base, where I (developer) could search for popular answers really quickly and copy/paste the link into IRC/social networks to help people with their (really trivial and common) problems. The point is there are lots and lots trivial questions which will be being asked or raised regularly, so we need to have them somewhere in easy access. Examples: 1) How to generate a tablet log? 2) How to compile Krita? 3) How to generate a backtrace for Krita crash? Right now I use launchpad's framework, but it is really-really limited. You cannot even add a screenshot :( Here: https://answers.launchpad.net/krita-ru/+faqs So I was even though about moving all these answers into wiki, but it seems like a special solution like LampCMS might help better in this situation. The requirements for this system for me: 1) Easy to add a pair Question/Answer (yep, self-dialog) 2) Easy to search for a question, and easy to paste the link to an answer on IRC 3) The ability for users to ask/answer questions is nice, but for me it is secondary :) On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have comments on LampCMS? https://github.com/snytkine/LampCMS These are why I think it is the best solution for KDE as a platform 1. Open source. We can take the source code and add it to the infrastructure (so it is KDE hosted) 2. It has easy access for logging in (facebook, twitter, linkedIn, Google+). 3. While though it doesn't have a large developer base, it seems moderately maintained. For the Krita instance of this, I was planning on re-skinning it after it would be hosted, so it should look quite nice and consistent. For the point of view about bad answers being written... Even looking at Krita's documentation on KDE, it is not up to date. In other words, there are errors for anyone that tries to download Krita now and seek instruction from the 'source'. We have to realize that as a user base gets larger, it will become impossible for developers to answer the amount of questions people have. We have to think of a better way to rely on the community to help us with this aspect. We already ask the non-KDE community to do things like find bug fixes, feature requests, an test builds. Having people help is usually a good idea (I think most of us here are volunteers). There will be bad answers on the QA platform. There will also be excellent answers as well. People expect there to be bad answers on a QA platform. People expect the voting system to help filter out the bad, not eliminate it . It is possible that you will get bad answers from doing a google search. Does that stop you from using search engines? those are my thoughts Scott On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: I'm fine with anything that Scott likes :-) I'd really like to experiment with this. Who knows, it might be valuable experience for other KDE projects as well. So, what's the next step? On Wed, 25 Feb 2015, Scott Petrovic wrote: I think Laszlo's suggestion with OSQA looks like a pretty good solution. I personally think a slightly better open source one is Lamp CMS http://support.lampcms.com/ I would personally prefer using Lamp CMS only because it integrates directly with other popular platforms like Google+ and Facebook. This is less friction for people to post questions and answers without having to sign up for yet another account. Not sure if social media integration is considered a 'dependency' though. Scott On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: http://www.osqa.net/ StackExchange is a commercial entity without open source accessbility to the implementation. Also, you need to comply with what StackExchange likes in the end of the day. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though!
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Sun, 1 Mar 2015, Luca Beltrame wrote: Dmitry Kazakov wrote: I asked for a kind of knowledge base, where I (developer) could search for popular answers really quickly and copy/paste the link into IRC/social networks to help people with their (really trivial and common) problems. A question: what does UserBase lack to be properly used as knowledge base? It's a wiki, that is a big set of unstructured, unrelated but interlinked pages on a huge set of unrelated topics. Wiki's have got their place, but they aren't suitable for a knowledgebase. In a knowledge base, you need to have a fixed format for every page: question or problem statement, set of answers, ability to mark a particular answer as authoritative. And of course, really good searching. But note that when I started this topic it was _NOT_ about Dmitry's need for a knowledge base that would it make easy for him (or me, or other Krita developers) to give user support. I started this topic because of a demand from our userbase for a question-and-answer website where they would do user-support _themselves_. Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Dmitry Kazakov wrote: I asked for a kind of knowledge base, where I (developer) could search for popular answers really quickly and copy/paste the link into IRC/social networks to help people with their (really trivial and common) problems. A question: what does UserBase lack to be properly used as knowledge base? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Boudewijn Rempt wrote: Krita developers) to give user support. I started this topic because of a demand from our userbase for a question-and-answer website where they would do user-support _themselves_. Pardon my honest ignorance again (this is not rhetorical, I really am ignorant on the topic), but in this case why are the forums unsuited? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I would favour extend and improve KDE infrastructure. Rick Sent from my Dragon 32Scott Petrovic scottpetro...@gmail.com wrote:I think Laszlo's suggestion with OSQA looks like a pretty good solution. I personally think a slightly better open source one is Lamp CMS http://support.lampcms.com/ I would personally prefer using Lamp CMS only because it integrates directly with other popular platforms like Google+ and Facebook. This is less friction for people to post questions and answers without having to sign up for yet another account. Not sure if social media integration is considered a 'dependency' though. Scott On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: http://www.osqa.net/ StackExchange is a commercial entity without open source accessbility to the implementation. Also, you need to comply with what StackExchange likes in the end of the day. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! So, what I wanted to get input on is: would creating a krita.stackexchange.com be against the manifesto? And if so, is there any equivalent (in terms of user-friendliness, googleability and recognizability) that we can use withing KDE's infra structure? For all clarity; this isn't a wiki, and it isn't a forum. It works in a very different way. Boudewijn (Willing to experiment so fewer people wonder where their layers have gone. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150224214426AAbFtKj) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ Krita mailing list kimages...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I'm fine with anything that Scott likes :-) I'd really like to experiment with this. Who knows, it might be valuable experience for other KDE projects as well. So, what's the next step? On Wed, 25 Feb 2015, Scott Petrovic wrote: I think Laszlo's suggestion with OSQA looks like a pretty good solution. I personally think a slightly better open source one is Lamp CMS http://support.lampcms.com/ I would personally prefer using Lamp CMS only because it integrates directly with other popular platforms like Google+ and Facebook. This is less friction for people to post questions and answers without having to sign up for yet another account. Not sure if social media integration is considered a 'dependency' though. Scott On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: http://www.osqa.net/ StackExchange is a commercial entity without open source accessbility to the implementation. Also, you need to comply with what StackExchange likes in the end of the day. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! So, what I wanted to get input on is: would creating a krita.stackexchange.com be against the manifesto? And if so, is there any equivalent (in terms of user-friendliness, googleability and recognizability) that we can use withing KDE's infra structure? For all clarity; this isn't a wiki, and it isn't a forum. It works in a very different way. Boudewijn (Willing to experiment so fewer people wonder where their layers have gone. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150224214426AAbFtKj) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ Krita mailing list kimages...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015, Laszlo Papp wrote: I doubt that this assertion in the Qt and especially the KDE community to be honest. You're missing one very big and important point: this isn't about the Qt and the KDE community. This is about the Krita user community, which a totally different group of people. Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:03 AM, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015, Laszlo Papp wrote: I doubt that this assertion in the Qt and especially the KDE community to be honest. You're missing one very big and important point: this isn't about the Qt and the KDE community. This is about the Krita user community, which a totally different group of people. I think Krita belongs to KDE. To extend a bit on that, to me it does not seem to be what Calligra and Krita are and where exactly they reside. As for the stats, I think it would be even worse Krita contributors on Stack Exchange to be honest. I have never seen a Krita question in the kde area. I have just had a quick look again. It is not only that there is no krita tag on e.g. stackoverflow, but also, there is no calligra tag either. This kind of shows its presence in there. I had to dig a bit more to find one calligra or koffice related question, but the answer is totally unacceptable for the quality standards of a Q/A site. Yet, it has been there, even accepted and it gave no real solution for the OP, just sent away. This is a prime example of low-quality posts on Stack Exchange: http://stackoverflow.com/a/10336751 Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015, Laszlo Papp wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015, Laszlo Papp wrote: I doubt that this assertion in the Qt and especially the KDE community to be honest. You're missing one very big and important point: this isn't about the Qt and the KDE community. This is about the Krita user community, which a totally different group of people. I think Krita belongs to KDE. As for the stats, I think it would be even worse Krita contributors on Stack Exchange to be honest. I have never seen a Krita question in the kde area. You're still totally and utterly and completely missing the point. A question and answer website is NOT for Krita contributors. It is for Krita USERS. Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015, Laszlo Papp wrote: I have just had a quick look again. It is not only that there is no krita tag on e.g. stackoverflow, but also, there is no calligra tag either. This kind of shows its presence in there. Once again, you're completely missing the point. The point is about creating a krita.stackexchange.com similar to http://blender.stackexchange.com/. Not whether it's where people go to ask questions now. Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 06:21:54 -0500, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: On Fri, 27 Feb 2015, Laszlo Papp wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015, Laszlo Papp wrote: I doubt that this assertion in the Qt and especially the KDE community to be honest. You're missing one very big and important point: this isn't about the Qt and the KDE community. This is about the Krita user community, which a totally different group of people. I think Krita belongs to KDE. As for the stats, I think it would be even worse Krita contributors on Stack Exchange to be honest. I have never seen a Krita question in the kde area. You're still totally and utterly and completely missing the point. A question and answer website is NOT for Krita contributors. It is for Krita USERS. Boudewijn ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community Quick question - is the voting aspect of a Stack Exchange like facility important? 2nd question (in the form of a statement) - Krita in not like other apps because it is of art and and there are no absolutes once the app is engaged thus proper app usage support for the Krita user community is unique and would best be be provided differently then the current methods? ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On 27 February 2015 at 01:39, Albert Astals Cid aa...@kde.org wrote: El Dijous, 26 de febrer de 2015, a les 11:56:15, Jaroslaw Staniek va escriure: On 26 February 2015 at 10:56, jQM Consultant jqmconsult...@gmail.com wrote: [..] Having a micro-community inside a macro-community will have a negative impact on the micro-community. You won't have your own rules nor will you have your own personality (as a community). While we're looking for optimized forum/QA experience for sub-communities, this reminds me similar question: Krita (or Kexi, for the record) forum(s) dive in the large KDE forums family. It's easy to get lost. Do you think the above note, usability-wise, also applies to forum.kde.org? Would own forum instances, still managed by KDE admins, be better? More controversial note is also: it's not necessarily natural for majority of their non-contributing users (Krita, Kexi) being outside of the KDE Plasma orbit, to visit and contribute to KDE [community] forums. In best case they may see themselves rather as a part of a standalone application's community. Just like Angry Birds fans do not call themselves iOS/Android community. Are you saying Kexi users are not smart enough to differentiate subforums in a bigger forum? Do they get confused because the kexi forum is part of a bigger thing? Honestly I'd say the IQ needed to use Kexi is bigger that the IQ needed to understand subforums inside a bigger forum. I completely disagree. Don't make them think :) [tm] -- regards, Jaroslaw Staniek KDE: : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators : and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org Calligra Suite: : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org Kexi: : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi Qt Certified Specialist: : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Dweeble dweeble01...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 06:36:48 -0500, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Martin Klapetek martin.klape...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone btw. knows how the Ubuntu instance at askubuntu.com fits in? It is part of the Stack Exchange system. You can easily check it by going to a Stack Exchange account that has subaccounts on multiple sites including AU. The subdomains are listed at the top of left an account. Furthermore, the Stack Exchange logo is even in the banner on the top left of the cover page for AU. I wonder if it is hosted by Canonical or just by SE Inc. and running on its own domain...and if Ubuntu people got more power in the moderation and stuff. Well, surely, they are slightly more empowered on a separate site, but in the end of the day, as Omar also wrote, the big boss is Stack Exchange. I want KDE to be the big boss for a KDE project. I really do not want to compromise that. Cheers -- Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community I don't see where this is so much better than what exists - to me it looks like a forum without sub-forums, where (at least on the LO and Ubuntu sites) not that many people vote and answers are basically posts. Sorry, but this is simply not true. You can say that questions and answers, with comments left around, look like forum, but that is not the intended goal of these Q/A sites. I personally do not like the end resulf of the forums. There is a lot of messy noise left around for the posterity. It is a bit challenging to go through all the posts and grab the important bits. It is possible, but it is not ideal. Now, coming back to your observation, if that is what you observed on SE, that is sad. I have seen it many times myself, too, though that noisy comments are left around, which were useful for the time, but not after submitting the final answer. On the contrary, forum is more like a different form of mailing list or IRC for me, where the discussion can be publicly pinned down. But that is quite different from only concentrating on the end result. And surprisingly considering the size of the Ubuntu community there aren't as many answers as I would have expected. Fair enough and that is not just the AU community. It is an overall issue for many technology areas on SE. I would think making the existing facilities better would be more cost/labor efficient and imo and what would be a worthy goal in supporting the community would be is to provide responses to all questions asked on the Forum, if one looks at the number of unanswered questions that number should not be considered acceptable. Yes, I agree. There is also the thing that the LaTeX Stack Exchange and latex-community.org experts say: you cannot answer every questions either if many questions are very low quality. Stack Exchange is a commercial entity with closed source software (although open database to be fair) and their own business model. I do not think it is inline with KDE's vision, but the KDE community may disagree with me, for sure. Either way, Stack Exchange has been known among many experts that it would mostly concentrate on quantity to sell to their customers. They can show all the fancy stats to their customers that we have now X million questions, etc. This is one of their policy decisions which, while I respect, I do not agree with. Let me please get back a bit to the First Google results are Stack Exchange results, beating even the official documentations, so it must be really cool. To make my opinion clear and explicit, I think it is disadvantageous that Stack Exchange is indexed that well on Google. It is leading towards the vendor lock-in mode for the Q/A world and if someone tries to get out of that, that person would be always told off by this argument. In fact, I would honestly suggest Google to find a better algorithm to avoid this situation, but I understand it may not be in Google's best interest. Also, it is quite inconvenient to find Stack Exchange results at times on the top if they are not good enough and e.g. the official documentation is good enough. In those cases, it is a pity that the official documentation or something better than Stack Exchange answers is not on the top... A good example would be an expert's blog. I trust and truly believe that the free software world needs to challenge Stack Exchange to avoid vendor lock-in by non-free software for a very important use case. Google01103 (I hang at the Forum occasionally) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 08:19:39 -0500, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Dweeble dweeble01...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 06:36:48 -0500, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Martin Klapetek martin.klape...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone btw. knows how the Ubuntu instance at askubuntu.com fits in? It is part of the Stack Exchange system. You can easily check it by going to a Stack Exchange account that has subaccounts on multiple sites including AU. The subdomains are listed at the top of left an account. Furthermore, the Stack Exchange logo is even in the banner on the top left of the cover page for AU. I wonder if it is hosted by Canonical or just by SE Inc. and running on its own domain...and if Ubuntu people got more power in the moderation and stuff. Well, surely, they are slightly more empowered on a separate site, but in the end of the day, as Omar also wrote, the big boss is Stack Exchange. I want KDE to be the big boss for a KDE project. I really do not want to compromise that. Cheers -- Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community I don't see where this is so much better than what exists - to me it looks like a forum without sub-forums, where (at least on the LO and Ubuntu sites) not that many people vote and answers are basically posts. Sorry, but this is simply not true. You can say that questions and answers, with comments left around, look like forum, but that is not the intended goal of these Q/A sites. I personally do not like the end resulf of the forums. There is a lot of messy noise left around for the posterity. It is a bit challenging to go through all the posts and grab the important bits. It is possible, but it is not ideal. Now, coming back to your observation, if that is what you observed on SE, that is sad. I have seen it many times myself, too, though that noisy comments are left around, which were useful for the time, but not after submitting the final answer. On the contrary, forum is more like a different form of mailing list or IRC for me, where the discussion can be publicly pinned down. But that is quite different from only concentrating on the end result. And surprisingly considering the size of the Ubuntu community there aren't as many answers as I would have expected. Fair enough and that is not just the AU community. It is an overall issue for many technology areas on SE. I would think making the existing facilities better would be more cost/labor efficient and imo and what would be a worthy goal in supporting the community would be is to provide responses to all questions asked on the Forum, if one looks at the number of unanswered questions that number should not be considered acceptable. Yes, I agree. There is also the thing that the LaTeX Stack Exchange and latex-community.org experts say: you cannot answer every questions either if many questions are very low quality. Stack Exchange is a commercial entity with closed source software (although open database to be fair) and their own business model. I do not think it is inline with KDE's vision, but the KDE community may disagree with me, for sure. Either way, Stack Exchange has been known among many experts that it would mostly concentrate on quantity to sell to their customers. They can show all the fancy stats to their customers that we have now X million questions, etc. This is one of their policy decisions which, while I respect, I do not agree with. Let me please get back a bit to the First Google results are Stack Exchange results, beating even the official documentations, so it must be really cool. To make my opinion clear and explicit, I think it is disadvantageous that Stack Exchange is indexed that well on Google. It is leading towards the vendor lock-in mode for the Q/A world and if someone tries to get out of that, that person would be always told off by this argument. In fact, I would honestly suggest Google to find a better algorithm to avoid this situation, but I understand it may not be in Google's best interest. Also, it is quite inconvenient to find Stack Exchange results at times on the top if they are not good enough and e.g. the official documentation is good enough. In those cases, it is a pity that the official documentation or something better than Stack Exchange answers is not on the top... A good example would be an expert's blog. I trust and truly believe that the free software world needs to challenge Stack Exchange to avoid vendor lock-in by non-free software for a very important use case. Google01103 (I hang at the Forum occasionally) ___ kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 07:38:48 -0500, Jaroslaw Staniek stan...@kde.org wrote: On 26 February 2015 at 13:27, Dweeble dweeble01...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 06:36:48 -0500, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Martin Klapetek martin.klape...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone btw. knows how the Ubuntu instance at askubuntu.com fits in? It is part of the Stack Exchange system. You can easily check it by going to a Stack Exchange account that has subaccounts on multiple sites including AU. The subdomains are listed at the top of left an account. Furthermore, the Stack Exchange logo is even in the banner on the top left of the cover page for AU. I wonder if it is hosted by Canonical or just by SE Inc. and running on its own domain...and if Ubuntu people got more power in the moderation and stuff. Well, surely, they are slightly more empowered on a separate site, but in the end of the day, as Omar also wrote, the big boss is Stack Exchange. I want KDE to be the big boss for a KDE project. I really do not want to compromise that. Cheers -- Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community I don't see where this is so much better than what exists - to me it looks like a forum without sub-forums, where (at least on the LO and Ubuntu sites) not that many people vote and answers are basically posts. And surprisingly considering the size of the Ubuntu community there aren't as many answers as I would have expected. I would think making the existing facilities better would be more cost/labor efficient and imo and what would be a worthy goal in supporting the community would be is to provide responses to all questions asked on the Forum, if one looks at the number of unanswered questions that number should not be considered acceptable. Yeah, one example: search that actually works. On https://forum.kde.org/kexi when I type TABLE I get results for Amarok, KMail, Okular, even VDG. Maybe 3 for Kexi. People search, do not browse, especially if they're confronted with a large hierarchy. Isn't that an idea for GSoC or whatever action? You need to use the search this forum box which is at the bottom of the page, I agree that the placement isn't optimal and that the search box would be more useful if it was context aware: - if on the forum home page search all forums - if on a sub-forum parent home page (ex Kexi has multiple sub forums) search all the parent's sub-forums - if on a sub-forum page search that sub-forum (or maybe all related sub-forums) - if on a thread search that thread ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On 26 February 2015 at 13:27, Dweeble dweeble01...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 06:36:48 -0500, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Martin Klapetek martin.klape...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone btw. knows how the Ubuntu instance at askubuntu.com fits in? It is part of the Stack Exchange system. You can easily check it by going to a Stack Exchange account that has subaccounts on multiple sites including AU. The subdomains are listed at the top of left an account. Furthermore, the Stack Exchange logo is even in the banner on the top left of the cover page for AU. I wonder if it is hosted by Canonical or just by SE Inc. and running on its own domain...and if Ubuntu people got more power in the moderation and stuff. Well, surely, they are slightly more empowered on a separate site, but in the end of the day, as Omar also wrote, the big boss is Stack Exchange. I want KDE to be the big boss for a KDE project. I really do not want to compromise that. Cheers -- Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community I don't see where this is so much better than what exists - to me it looks like a forum without sub-forums, where (at least on the LO and Ubuntu sites) not that many people vote and answers are basically posts. And surprisingly considering the size of the Ubuntu community there aren't as many answers as I would have expected. I would think making the existing facilities better would be more cost/labor efficient and imo and what would be a worthy goal in supporting the community would be is to provide responses to all questions asked on the Forum, if one looks at the number of unanswered questions that number should not be considered acceptable. Yeah, one example: search that actually works. On https://forum.kde.org/kexi when I type TABLE I get results for Amarok, KMail, Okular, even VDG. Maybe 3 for Kexi. People search, do not browse, especially if they're confronted with a large hierarchy. Isn't that an idea for GSoC or whatever action? -- regards, Jaroslaw Staniek KDE: : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators : and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org Calligra Suite: : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org Kexi: : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi Qt Certified Specialist: : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
El Dijous, 26 de febrer de 2015, a les 11:56:15, Jaroslaw Staniek va escriure: On 26 February 2015 at 10:56, jQM Consultant jqmconsult...@gmail.com wrote: [..] Having a micro-community inside a macro-community will have a negative impact on the micro-community. You won't have your own rules nor will you have your own personality (as a community). While we're looking for optimized forum/QA experience for sub-communities, this reminds me similar question: Krita (or Kexi, for the record) forum(s) dive in the large KDE forums family. It's easy to get lost. Do you think the above note, usability-wise, also applies to forum.kde.org? Would own forum instances, still managed by KDE admins, be better? More controversial note is also: it's not necessarily natural for majority of their non-contributing users (Krita, Kexi) being outside of the KDE Plasma orbit, to visit and contribute to KDE [community] forums. In best case they may see themselves rather as a part of a standalone application's community. Just like Angry Birds fans do not call themselves iOS/Android community. Are you saying Kexi users are not smart enough to differentiate subforums in a bigger forum? Do they get confused because the kexi forum is part of a bigger thing? Honestly I'd say the IQ needed to use Kexi is bigger that the IQ needed to understand subforums inside a bigger forum. Cheers, Albert (just 2c) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Let me add my $0.01 to this topic, just for the sake of diversity. Formerly, I've been a long-time contributor on Stack Overflow (I was going by the name H2CO3); I've used it for about three and a half years. When I first encountered the site, I was impressed about the amount of good scientific discussion happening there. I've learnt a lot from the questions others asked and the answers a lot of deeply passionate and very knowledgeable programmers have contributed. I haven't asked a lot of questions myself (since Stack Overflow was already a well-established site by the time I've got to know it); however, as I've developed my own programming skills, I gradually answered more and more questions, primarily in the C, Objective-C, iOS (formerly iPhone), C++ tags and occasionally elsewhere. During the years, I've reached the magic 100 000 reputation points, but my appetite for answering questions and contributing to the community has begun to decrease quickly. And that certainly had a well-defined reason behind it. I've noticed over the course of the years that the majority of users and questions in my preferred topics has become extremely, utterly *lazy.* Just that: plain, old lazy. A lot of users seemingly didn't make the slightest effort to do any sort of basic research before asking their questions, and often, they also lacked fundamental knowledge about the languages they were using. I remember being a beginner programmer and making the stupidest mistakes possible, and I remember the amount of struggling it took me to google all the answers to all my easy problems. It wasn't easy, but it wasn't that hard (let alone impossible) either, it just took a bit of effort and persistence. However, during the time I've spent on Stack Overflow, I've seen that the majority of users weren't even willing to follow this approach. For instance, when they encountered a common compiler error, the first thing they did was to run to SO and ask a badly-formulated, hard-to-comprehend, grammatically screwed-up duplicate question – more ofthen than not, an N-th order duplicate, actually… there were identical questions asked literally more than a hundred times. Honestly, I don't even understand this attitude – it would have taken less time to google the error message than ask a question and wait for others to answer it. Then there were the annoying college students who were too lazy to participate in a course and/or to do their own homework, and then they asked the community to explain in detail what, for example, a basic data structure or a certain syntactic construct was. That's explicitly against There have been endless requests to do one's homework as well. (Isn't that just plain unashamed? asking a whole site to do your homework? simply unbelievable…) But this wasn't the worst problem of Stack Overflow. The two worst problems were (and still are, from what I can tell) 1. moderators', community managers' and other managerial staff's attitude towards the aforementioned problems, and 2. the fact that personalities, non-professional arguing and generally all sorts of evil machination has gradually overtaken professional debate. The amount of revenge serial downvoting of good answers and questions was continuously increasing; heated arguments were frequent; and all this usually ended by a moderator intervening, but supporting the wrong side. Instead of taking action against those who asked off-topic/lazy/spammy/repeated questions by closing and/or deleting the questions or banning these harmful users, they warned (often in a very personal, ashaming tone) the more experienced, professional users who spoke up against the allowance of such low-quality questions. There has been not a single case whereby such an experienced, trusted user has been downright *banned* from Stack Overflow. The usual (often ambiguous and non-helpful) reasoning always went along the lines of you have to be nice to beginners. Which in itself is true, but completely misses the point. This ultimately drove me into abandoning all contribution to Stack Overflow and requesting the deletion of my account. It's some unfortunate and seriously bad experience, but I just couldn't stand the amount of injustice which was happening against the top contributors of the site. The worst thing, in my opinion, is that the site staff were doing it deliberately. It wasn't even an honest mistake. So, that's about it – this is my story with regards to Stack Overflow. To sum up, I can't really recommend it for anyone who is willing to live a successful professional life, since instead of a place for professional and enthusiast programmers (as its sub-title claims), it has become a collection of endlessly-repeated questions and lazy wannabes, backed and supported by the managers of the network. Whether this is the situation on other sites in the Stack Exchange network – I don't know, and in all honesty, I couldn't care less, at least not anymore. I suspect that other sites
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I think Laszlo's suggestion with OSQA looks like a pretty good solution. I personally think a slightly better open source one is Lamp CMS http://support.lampcms.com/ I would personally prefer using Lamp CMS only because it integrates directly with other popular platforms like Google+ and Facebook. This is less friction for people to post questions and answers without having to sign up for yet another account. Not sure if social media integration is considered a 'dependency' though. Scott On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: http://www.osqa.net/ StackExchange is a commercial entity without open source accessbility to the implementation. Also, you need to comply with what StackExchange likes in the end of the day. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! So, what I wanted to get input on is: would creating a krita.stackexchange.com be against the manifesto? And if so, is there any equivalent (in terms of user-friendliness, googleability and recognizability) that we can use withing KDE's infra structure? For all clarity; this isn't a wiki, and it isn't a forum. It works in a very different way. Boudewijn (Willing to experiment so fewer people wonder where their layers have gone. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150224214426AAbFtKj) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ Krita mailing list kimages...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Fedora is using something similar to stackexchange format: https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/questions/ It is powered by https://askbot.com/ but that one seems commercial https://askbot.com/plans/ 2015-02-25 17:09 GMT+01:00 Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! So, what I wanted to get input on is: would creating a krita.stackexchange.com be against the manifesto? And if so, is there any equivalent (in terms of user-friendliness, googleability and recognizability) that we can use withing KDE's infra structure? For all clarity; this isn't a wiki, and it isn't a forum. It works in a very different way. Boudewijn (Willing to experiment so fewer people wonder where their layers have gone. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150224214426AAbFtKj) ___ Krita mailing list kimages...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I have my own collection of questions in my Stackexchange account. When i need them i can easily find them. Also the same service works for Math, Python, Java which i use too. This is very very big and great project. This project also has http://stackoverflow.com/ service which is merged to Stackexchange. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 3:49 AM, Albert Astals Cid aa...@kde.org wrote: El Dimecres, 25 de febrer de 2015, a les 17:09:09, Boudewijn Rempt va escriure: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! What's important of StackExchange, the non-wiki, non-forum type of software they have or the users they have? I.e. we're on twitter because of the users they have, having twitter-like software on kde.org wouldn't work. Cheers, Albert So, what I wanted to get input on is: would creating a krita.stackexchange.com be against the manifesto? And if so, is there any equivalent (in terms of user-friendliness, googleability and recognizability) that we can use withing KDE's infra structure? For all clarity; this isn't a wiki, and it isn't a forum. It works in a very different way. Boudewijn (Willing to experiment so fewer people wonder where their layers have gone. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150224214426AAbFtKj ) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ Krita mailing list kimages...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop -- Hello World! ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Dweeble dweeble01...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 08:19:39 -0500, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Dweeble dweeble01...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 06:36:48 -0500, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Martin Klapetek martin.klape...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone btw. knows how the Ubuntu instance at askubuntu.com fits in? It is part of the Stack Exchange system. You can easily check it by going to a Stack Exchange account that has subaccounts on multiple sites including AU. The subdomains are listed at the top of left an account. Furthermore, the Stack Exchange logo is even in the banner on the top left of the cover page for AU. I wonder if it is hosted by Canonical or just by SE Inc. and running on its own domain...and if Ubuntu people got more power in the moderation and stuff. Well, surely, they are slightly more empowered on a separate site, but in the end of the day, as Omar also wrote, the big boss is Stack Exchange. I want KDE to be the big boss for a KDE project. I really do not want to compromise that. Cheers -- Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community I don't see where this is so much better than what exists - to me it looks like a forum without sub-forums, where (at least on the LO and Ubuntu sites) not that many people vote and answers are basically posts. Sorry, but this is simply not true. You can say that questions and answers, with comments left around, look like forum, but that is not the intended goal of these Q/A sites. I personally do not like the end resulf of the forums. There is a lot of messy noise left around for the posterity. It is a bit challenging to go through all the posts and grab the important bits. It is possible, but it is not ideal. Now, coming back to your observation, if that is what you observed on SE, that is sad. I have seen it many times myself, too, though that noisy comments are left around, which were useful for the time, but not after submitting the final answer. On the contrary, forum is more like a different form of mailing list or IRC for me, where the discussion can be publicly pinned down. But that is quite different from only concentrating on the end result. And surprisingly considering the size of the Ubuntu community there aren't as many answers as I would have expected. Fair enough and that is not just the AU community. It is an overall issue for many technology areas on SE. I would think making the existing facilities better would be more cost/labor efficient and imo and what would be a worthy goal in supporting the community would be is to provide responses to all questions asked on the Forum, if one looks at the number of unanswered questions that number should not be considered acceptable. Yes, I agree. There is also the thing that the LaTeX Stack Exchange and latex-community.org experts say: you cannot answer every questions either if many questions are very low quality. Stack Exchange is a commercial entity with closed source software (although open database to be fair) and their own business model. I do not think it is inline with KDE's vision, but the KDE community may disagree with me, for sure. Either way, Stack Exchange has been known among many experts that it would mostly concentrate on quantity to sell to their customers. They can show all the fancy stats to their customers that we have now X million questions, etc. This is one of their policy decisions which, while I respect, I do not agree with. Let me please get back a bit to the First Google results are Stack Exchange results, beating even the official documentations, so it must be really cool. To make my opinion clear and explicit, I think it is disadvantageous that Stack Exchange is indexed that well on Google. It is leading towards the vendor lock-in mode for the Q/A world and if someone tries to get out of that, that person would be always told off by this argument. In fact, I would honestly suggest Google to find a better algorithm to avoid this situation, but I understand it may not be in Google's best interest. Also, it is quite inconvenient to find Stack Exchange results at times on the top if they are not good enough and e.g. the official documentation is good enough. In those cases, it is a pity that the official documentation or something better than Stack Exchange answers is not on the top... A good example would be an expert's blog. I trust and truly believe that the free software world needs to challenge Stack Exchange to avoid vendor lock-in by non-free
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: http://www.osqa.net/ StackExchange is a commercial entity without open source accessbility to the implementation. Also, you need to comply with what StackExchange likes in the end of the day. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! So, what I wanted to get input on is: would creating a krita.stackexchange.com be against the manifesto? And if so, is there any equivalent (in terms of user-friendliness, googleability and recognizability) that we can use withing KDE's infra structure? For all clarity; this isn't a wiki, and it isn't a forum. It works in a very different way. Boudewijn (Willing to experiment so fewer people wonder where their layers have gone. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150224214426AAbFtKj) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On 02/25/2015 08:12 AM, Laszlo Papp wrote: I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: http://www.osqa.net/ osqa.net looks good. There's also an established service (answerhub.com/), which could be implemented quickly...at a cost. They are kinda cute (maybe deceptive) with their pricing guidelines, but apparently they are willing to discuss charitable deals. There's a comparison between OSQA and AnswerHub at answerhub.com/answerhub-difference-osqa/ but there would need to be a decision about the importance of features that are only available from the commercial AnswerHub. StackExchange is a commercial entity without open source accessbility to the implementation. Also, you need to comply with what StackExchange likes in the end of the day. Reply to Boud's original message below. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! So, what I wanted to get input on is: would creating a krita.stackexchange.com be against the manifesto? And if so, is there any equivalent (in terms of user-friendliness, googleability and recognizability) that we can use withing KDE's infra structure? StackExchange seems to conflict with... Online services associated with the project are either hosted on KDE infrastructure or have an action plan that ensures continuity which is approved by the KDE system administration team Hard to see how continuity would be ensured. Perhaps the continuity plan could be to start on StackExchange, operate there until something could be established within KDE's infrastructure. As a beginning Krita user, I would greatly appreciate this kind of resource. A QA capability would be helpful for other KDE technology as well. Carl For all clarity; this isn't a wiki, and it isn't a forum. It works in a very different way. Boudewijn (Willing to experiment so fewer people wonder where their layers have gone. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150224214426AAbFtKj) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
Laszlo Papp wrote: I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: Disclaimer: I may be biased since I help running the forums. If it were to me, I'd give -1 to SE. Simply put, KDE should not (if possible) rely on non- Free solutions for these kind of things. This even more so because there are alternatives, and because I'm aware myself (although just an occasional user of said service) of the issues surrounding Stack Exchange. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Laszlo Papp lp...@kde.org wrote: I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange: http://www.osqa.net/ Before people start claiming that it has not got so much activity as of late, here can you find a more complete list of alternatives for Stack Exchange. There are open source and hence free software alternatives on the list. http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2267/stack-exchange-clones Having said that, this is not my main issue with Stack Exchange. I simply do not like many things about their vision, including, but not limited to: 1) Not willing to remedy the problem about extremely low-quality content. 2) Unhealthy atmosphere by allowing downvotes as part of the gamification without any reasoning. It encourages to do a kind of you suck attitude without constructively explaining it. 3) Certain things are just far too locked down, like discussions between the moderators and site owners about important decisions in the community. 4) There is no healthy way of discussing the operation of the site (no, meta is not). 5) They do not properly respect the license terms they were supposed to follow. 6) Sustainability for a free software project is rather questionable. Remember what happened to the predecessor expert exchange ... I could continue enumerating as I have so much thoughts about the topic, but I will cut it here for now. Overall, Stack Exchange could be harmful for the KDE project in my opinion. This does not need to be taken lightly. I have spent my time for 1-2 years helping users on Stack Exchange sites, days and nights, but I have had a very different feeling to what free software project, including Qt and KDE would be about. I am sure KDE good take some good initiative to give some boost to the free software world about the need of the Q/A technology by not compromising free software in the first place. StackExchange is a commercial entity without open source accessbility to the implementation. Also, you need to comply with what StackExchange likes in the end of the day. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Boudewijn Rempt b...@valdyas.org wrote: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! So, what I wanted to get input on is: would creating a krita.stackexchange.com be against the manifesto? And if so, is there any equivalent (in terms of user-friendliness, googleability and recognizability) that we can use withing KDE's infra structure? For all clarity; this isn't a wiki, and it isn't a forum. It works in a very different way. Boudewijn (Willing to experiment so fewer people wonder where their layers have gone. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150224214426AAbFtKj) ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015, Albert Astals Cid wrote: El Dimecres, 25 de febrer de 2015, a les 17:09:09, Boudewijn Rempt va escriure: This is a question that came up on the #krita channel today. Our forums are awesome, but not the best place for question and answer type of exchanges. We even see questions appear on yahoo answers! One proposal was to create a krita.stackexchange.com, like http://blender.stackexchange.com/. However, this is infra that's outside of KDE. I don't know of anything equivalent, though! What's important of StackExchange, the non-wiki, non-forum type of software they have or the users they have? The software -- the way it invites people to ask questions, give answers and to a large extent also the way stack exchange answers show up in google. I mean... Try googling for a Qt programming question these days. You get stackexchange before the Qt documentation. I.e. we're on twitter because of the users they have, having twitter-like software on kde.org wouldn't work. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
