Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Maciej Suminski]

Sorry for late answer, I will not have a reliable Internet connection until 
Sunday evening. I removed the option to draw ZONE_CONTAINERs as they are 
dedicated to copper layers. For graphical items there is DRAWSEGMENT of POLYGON 
type. If you find it unacceptable, please revert the commit. I am not going to 
insist to keep it that way, if it is a reason to delay v5 release.

Regards,
Orson

On February 24, 2018 12:28:11 AM GMT+01:00, Wayne Stambaugh 
 wrote:
>Orson,
>
>Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on non-copper
>layers?
> The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate there was a
>reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until we get
>this resolved.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Wayne
>
>On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> after this change:
>>
>https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b
>> 
>> 
>> I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
>> Was that intentional?
>> 
>> Andrzej
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

 There are a number of missing features in the polygon tool that exist 
in the zone editor.  Adding corners is a large one.




Cutouts would be a big regression. I think gr_poly is a single polygon 
and cannot have cutouts?


Andrzej

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

I have just found nice bug in 4.0.
If you first edit copper zone and set corner smoothing to chamfer, then 
you can make non copper zone with chamfered corners:

https://imgur.com/a/GsLn2

Andrzej



W dniu 2018-02-24 o 02:15, Seth Hillbrand pisze:
Playing with the tool some more, I can see that Andrzej is right.  
There are a number of missing features in the polygon tool that exist 
in the zone editor.  Adding corners is a large one.


If you have an existing non-copper zone, it seems you can keep it, 
change its layer, add cut-outs, etc.  Even duplicate to create a new 
one.  But you can't draw a brand new one.


-S

2018-02-23 17:07 GMT-08:00 Andrzej Wolski >:



Was it ever possible to run the fill algorithm (meaning, only
fill in parts of a polygon outline, based on some clearance to
other items on the same layer) on a non-copper zone?


No, I didn't mean it was already possible.

Seth, yes I see that dialog too in old builds, but the outline
appearance doesn't do anything (because non-copper zones are
always shown filled, not with an outline)

Zones on paste layer shown in outline::
https://imgur.com/a/5g4cI

Andrzej




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Re: [Kicad-developers] Nightly builds.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Even if you could launch kicad from gdb and to a backtrace after the 
segfault would be helpful.  I have never had any luck interrupting an 
running process using gdb on windows.


On 02/23/2018 08:01 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
In the installer I also tried to include gdb, such that it could 
potentiallyt be possible to run kicad on windows in here, but this is 
not well tested. All I did was successfully make it run and break on a 
kicad function. I am not sure how much debugging you can actually do 
with that.


2018-02-23 19:10 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh >:


Hi Simon,

Thanks.  I've never used a RelWithDebInfo build.  What kind of debugging
info would this give me if I ran it gdb?  Would it be good enough for
someone to do produce useful debugging information performing a
backtrace on a segfault?

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 12:26 PM, Simon Richter wrote:
 > Hi Wayne,
 >
 > On 23.02.2018  18:00, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
 >
 >> Are our nightly windows builds built with debugging
information?  I was
 >> just curious.  The file sizes would indicate that they may be
but given
 >> the current size of the libraries it's hard to tell.
 >
 > Yes, the CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE is set to RelWithDebInfo for
nightlies[1], and
 > left at default (Release) for stable[2].
 >
 >    Simon
 >
 > [1]
https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-winbuilder/blob/master/PKGBUILD

 > [2]
https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-winbuilder/blob/master/PKGBUILD-STABLE 

 >
 >
 >
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Wayne Stambaugh]

On 02/23/2018 08:24 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:


 Does the polygon tool allow you to edit zones on non-copper layers or 
were zones on non-copper layers saved as polygons?  If the latter is 
the case then I'm guessing this change is not significant but if that 
is not the case then there could be some editing issues. 


Zones on non copper layers were saved as zones:

(zone (net 0) (net_name "") (layer F.Mask) (tstamp 0) (hatch edge 0.508)
     (connect_pads (clearance 0.25))
     (min_thickness 0.254)
     (fill yes (arc_segments 16) (thermal_gap 0.508) 
(thermal_bridge_width 0.508))

     ...
   )


While polygons are saved as gr_poly:

(gr_poly (pts (xy 161.19 92.85) (xy 161.19 98.63) (xy 168.14 98.63) (xy 
168.14 93.32)) (layer F.Cu) (width 0.15))


Note that there are nice features in zones like corner smoothing, fill 
mode, priority, etc, which could be easily added to zones on non copper 
layers, while graphic polygons are simple objects and do not have these 
features.


Andrzej


OK, I'm going to wait to hear from Orson which will probably not happen 
until tomorrow morning.  I'm guessing pushing the branch and rc1 back a 
day isn't going to be a show stopper.


Cheers,

Wayne

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

 Does the polygon tool allow you to edit zones on non-copper layers or 
were zones on non-copper layers saved as polygons?  If the latter is 
the case then I'm guessing this change is not significant but if that 
is not the case then there could be some editing issues. 


Zones on non copper layers were saved as zones:

(zone (net 0) (net_name "") (layer F.Mask) (tstamp 0) (hatch edge 0.508)
    (connect_pads (clearance 0.25))
    (min_thickness 0.254)
    (fill yes (arc_segments 16) (thermal_gap 0.508) 
(thermal_bridge_width 0.508))

    ...
  )


While polygons are saved as gr_poly:

(gr_poly (pts (xy 161.19 92.85) (xy 161.19 98.63) (xy 168.14 98.63) (xy 
168.14 93.32)) (layer F.Cu) (width 0.15))


Note that there are nice features in zones like corner smoothing, fill 
mode, priority, etc, which could be easily added to zones on non copper 
layers, while graphic polygons are simple objects and do not have these 
features.


Andrzej

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Seth Hillbrand]

Playing with the tool some more, I can see that Andrzej is right.  There
are a number of missing features in the polygon tool that exist in the zone
editor.  Adding corners is a large one.

If you have an existing non-copper zone, it seems you can keep it, change
its layer, add cut-outs, etc.  Even duplicate to create a new one.  But you
can't draw a brand new one.

-S

2018-02-23 17:07 GMT-08:00 Andrzej Wolski :

>
> Was it ever possible to run the fill algorithm (meaning, only fill in
>> parts of a polygon outline, based on some clearance to other items on the
>> same layer) on a non-copper zone?
>>
>
> No, I didn't mean it was already possible.
>
> Seth, yes I see that dialog too in old builds, but the outline appearance
>> doesn't do anything (because non-copper zones are always shown filled, not
>> with an outline)
>>
> Zones on paste layer shown in outline::
> https://imgur.com/a/5g4cI
>
> Andrzej
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

Was it ever possible to run the fill algorithm (meaning, only fill in 
parts of a polygon outline, based on some clearance to other items on 
the same layer) on a non-copper zone?


No, I didn't mean it was already possible.

Seth, yes I see that dialog too in old builds, but the outline 
appearance doesn't do anything (because non-copper zones are always 
shown filled, not with an outline)

Zones on paste layer shown in outline::
https://imgur.com/a/5g4cI

Andrzej

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Wayne Stambaugh]

There definitely was a change in the commit that removed 
InvokeNonCopperZonesEditor() from the ZONE_CREATE_HELPER tool so I can 
see how this would be jarring for users that have been using that 
feature.  I'm going to wait until Orson responds to my original 
question.  If we are going to make a behavior change like this, I would 
like to understand why.  I see in the commit message that it states 
"Previously zone drawing tool was used to draw copper and graphical
polygons, but now there is a dedicated tool for that."  Does the polygon 
tool allow you to edit zones on non-copper layers or were zones on 
non-copper layers saved as polygons?  If the latter is the case then I'm 
guessing this change is not significant but if that is not the case then 
there could be some editing issues.


Wayen

On 02/23/2018 07:55 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:


But setting the width of a graphical polygon to 0 removes the size 
issue Andrzej mentioned.


But the you don't have them with rounded corners :)

For filling vs. non-filling, I don't personally see the usefulness in 
having the fill algorithm run over a polygon that will always be 
filled.  But maybe there's a use-case I'm missing?




I didn't mean filling, but displaying in outline mode (hatched, fully 
hatched...)


Andrzej


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Nightly builds.

[Nick Østergaard]

In the installer I also tried to include gdb, such that it could
potentiallyt be possible to run kicad on windows in here, but this is not
well tested. All I did was successfully make it run and break on a kicad
function. I am not sure how much debugging you can actually do with that.

2018-02-23 19:10 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh :

> Hi Simon,
>
> Thanks.  I've never used a RelWithDebInfo build.  What kind of debugging
> info would this give me if I ran it gdb?  Would it be good enough for
> someone to do produce useful debugging information performing a
> backtrace on a segfault?
>
> Wayne
>
> On 02/23/2018 12:26 PM, Simon Richter wrote:
> > Hi Wayne,
> >
> > On 23.02.2018 18:00, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >
> >> Are our nightly windows builds built with debugging information?  I was
> >> just curious.  The file sizes would indicate that they may be but given
> >> the current size of the libraries it's hard to tell.
> >
> > Yes, the CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE is set to RelWithDebInfo for nightlies[1], and
> > left at default (Release) for stable[2].
> >
> >Simon
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-winbuilder/blob/master/PKGBUILD
> > [2] https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-winbuilder/blob/master/
> PKGBUILD-STABLE
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

I can edit existing zones on non copper layers, but I can't place new one.
What I mean is zones and polygons behave differently and I think they 
both should be there.

But maybe I do not fully understand the intentions.

Andrzej


W dniu 2018-02-24 o 01:37, Wayne Stambaugh pisze:
I'm seeing this as well.  Andrzej, are you sure this is correct?  Can 
you not edit zones on non-copper layers any longer?


On 02/23/2018 07:26 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
I went back to an older version of master (back around September of 
last year) and I can't make a zone on a non-copper layer that behaves 
like a copper zone.  Even when using the zone tool, they behave like 
graphic polygons.
Were you able to do this up until Orson's recent change?  If so, how 
do you do it?


On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Andrzej Wolski 
> wrote:


    Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than zones
    and I think they both should be there.

    I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be always 
solid.


    Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".

    There are many designs which already have zones on non coppers
    layers, so Kicad will have to support them anyway, but users won't
    be able to place new ones?

    Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon outline is
    drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting object will have the
    same dimensions, but polygon will be 10x10mm + outline width.

    Andrzej


    W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:

    The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.

    Andrzej, does this tool not work?

    -S

    2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh >:

    Orson,

    Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on
    non-copper layers?
     The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate
    there was a
    reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until
    we get
    this resolved.

    Thanks,

    Wayne

    On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > after this change:
    >
https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b

    >
    >
    > I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
    > Was that intentional?
    >
    > Andrzej
    >
    >
    >
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

But setting the width of a graphical polygon to 0 removes the size 
issue Andrzej mentioned.


But the you don't have them with rounded corners :)

For filling vs. non-filling, I don't personally see the usefulness in 
having the fill algorithm run over a polygon that will always be 
filled.  But maybe there's a use-case I'm missing?




I didn't mean filling, but displaying in outline mode (hatched, fully 
hatched...)


Andrzej
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Wayne Stambaugh]

This is what I'm trying to determine.  It sounds like this was a 
premature assessment on my part.  If this is the case, I will branch and 
tag rc1 now.


On 02/23/2018 07:49 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
Was it ever possible to run the fill algorithm (meaning, only fill in 
parts of a polygon outline, based on some clearance to other items on 
the same layer) on a non-copper zone?
I might be missing something, but from looking over the code (even back 
at 4.0 branch) I don't think this has ever been supported.
So, while this might be an interesting feature request, it's not a bug 
and shouldn't hold up the RC.


Seth, yes I see that dialog too in old builds, but the outline 
appearance doesn't do anything (because non-copper zones are always 
shown filled, not with an outline)


Are we actually missing any features we used to have, or is this all a 
matter of proper documentation about the new way to do things in v5?


-Jon

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:41 PM, Seth Hillbrand 
> wrote:


I have a number of zones on non-copper layers in older designs. 
They used to have the attached dialog.


But setting the width of a graphical polygon to 0 removes the size
issue Andrzej mentioned.

For filling vs. non-filling, I don't personally see the usefulness
in having the fill algorithm run over a polygon that will always be
filled.  But maybe there's a use-case I'm missing?

-S

2018-02-23 16:26 GMT-08:00 Jon Evans >:

I went back to an older version of master (back around September
of last year) and I can't make a zone on a non-copper layer that
behaves like a copper zone.  Even when using the zone tool, they
behave like graphic polygons.
Were you able to do this up until Orson's recent change?  If so,
how do you do it?

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Andrzej Wolski
> wrote:

Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than
zones and I think they both should be there.

I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be
always solid.

Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".

There are many designs which already have zones on non
coppers layers, so Kicad will have to support them anyway,
but users won't be able to place new ones?

Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon
outline is drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting
object will have the same dimensions, but polygon will be
10x10mm + outline width.

Andrzej


W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:

The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.

Andrzej, does this tool not work?

-S

2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh
>:

Orson,

Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on
non-copper layers?
 The changes you made in this commit would seem to
indicate there was a
reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on
rc1 until we get
this resolved.

Thanks,

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> Hello,
>
> after this change:
>

https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b


>
>
> I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
> Was that intentional?
>
> Andrzej
>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Seth,

So you can still edit files with zones without using the zone tool or 
does the polygon tool pop up for editing zones on non-copper layers?  I 
don't have any boards with zones on non-copper layers.  As long as they 
are still editable, then I don't see the problem.


As far filled versus unfilled polygons, wouldn't you just use a polyline 
for an unfilled polygon?


Wayne

On 02/23/2018 07:41 PM, Seth Hillbrand wrote:
I have a number of zones on non-copper layers in older designs.  They 
used to have the attached dialog.


But setting the width of a graphical polygon to 0 removes the size 
issue Andrzej mentioned.


For filling vs. non-filling, I don't personally see the usefulness in 
having the fill algorithm run over a polygon that will always be 
filled.  But maybe there's a use-case I'm missing?


-S

2018-02-23 16:26 GMT-08:00 Jon Evans >:


I went back to an older version of master (back around September of
last year) and I can't make a zone on a non-copper layer that
behaves like a copper zone.  Even when using the zone tool, they
behave like graphic polygons.
Were you able to do this up until Orson's recent change?  If so, how
do you do it?

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Andrzej Wolski
> wrote:

Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than
zones and I think they both should be there.

I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be always
solid.

Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".

There are many designs which already have zones on non coppers
layers, so Kicad will have to support them anyway, but users
won't be able to place new ones?

Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon
outline is drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting object
will have the same dimensions, but polygon will be 10x10mm +
outline width.

Andrzej


W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:

The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.

Andrzej, does this tool not work?

-S

2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh
>:

Orson,

Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on
non-copper layers?
 The changes you made in this commit would seem to
indicate there was a
reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1
until we get
this resolved.

Thanks,

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> Hello,
>
> after this change:
>

https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b


>
>
> I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
> Was that intentional?
>
> Andrzej
>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

What behavior do you mean?
In 4.0 and nightly from few days ago zones on non copper layers:
- have outline drawn like zones, not like graphic polygons (I mean 
difference in size)
- can be displayed in outline mode (hatched, fully hatched etc), 
polygons can't


Moreover, zones have tools like "create corner", "add cutout", "merge", 
while polygons do not.


Andrzej

W dniu 2018-02-24 o 01:26, Jon Evans pisze:
I went back to an older version of master (back around September of 
last year) and I can't make a zone on a non-copper layer that behaves 
like a copper zone.  Even when using the zone tool, they behave like 
graphic polygons.
Were you able to do this up until Orson's recent change? If so, how do 
you do it?


On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Andrzej Wolski 
> wrote:


Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than zones
and I think they both should be there.

I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be always solid.

Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".

There are many designs which already have zones on non coppers
layers, so Kicad will have to support them anyway, but users won't
be able to place new ones?

Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon outline
is drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting object will have
the same dimensions, but polygon will be 10x10mm + outline width.

Andrzej


W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:

The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.

Andrzej, does this tool not work?

-S

2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh >:

Orson,

Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on
non-copper layers?
 The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate
there was a
reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until
we get
this resolved.

Thanks,

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> Hello,
>
> after this change:
>

https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b


>
>
> I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
> Was that intentional?
>
> Andrzej
>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Jon Evans]

Was it ever possible to run the fill algorithm (meaning, only fill in parts
of a polygon outline, based on some clearance to other items on the same
layer) on a non-copper zone?
I might be missing something, but from looking over the code (even back at
4.0 branch) I don't think this has ever been supported.
So, while this might be an interesting feature request, it's not a bug and
shouldn't hold up the RC.

Seth, yes I see that dialog too in old builds, but the outline appearance
doesn't do anything (because non-copper zones are always shown filled, not
with an outline)

Are we actually missing any features we used to have, or is this all a
matter of proper documentation about the new way to do things in v5?

-Jon

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:41 PM, Seth Hillbrand 
wrote:

> I have a number of zones on non-copper layers in older designs.  They used
> to have the attached dialog.
>
> But setting the width of a graphical polygon to 0 removes the size
> issue Andrzej mentioned.
>
> For filling vs. non-filling, I don't personally see the usefulness in
> having the fill algorithm run over a polygon that will always be filled.
> But maybe there's a use-case I'm missing?
>
> -S
>
> 2018-02-23 16:26 GMT-08:00 Jon Evans :
>
>> I went back to an older version of master (back around September of last
>> year) and I can't make a zone on a non-copper layer that behaves like a
>> copper zone.  Even when using the zone tool, they behave like graphic
>> polygons.
>> Were you able to do this up until Orson's recent change?  If so, how do
>> you do it?
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Andrzej Wolski 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than zones and I
>>> think they both should be there.
>>>
>>> I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be always solid.
>>>
>>> Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".
>>>
>>> There are many designs which already have zones on non coppers layers,
>>> so Kicad will have to support them anyway, but users won't be able to place
>>> new ones?
>>>
>>> Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon outline is
>>> drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting object will have the same
>>> dimensions, but polygon will be 10x10mm + outline width.
>>>
>>> Andrzej
>>>
>>>
>>> W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:
>>>
>>> The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.
>>>
>>> Andrzej, does this tool not work?
>>>
>>> -S
>>>
>>> 2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh :
>>>
 Orson,

 Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on non-copper layers?
  The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate there was a
 reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until we get
 this resolved.

 Thanks,

 Wayne

 On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
 > Hello,
 >
 > after this change:
 > https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a0
 5de19293a8ce5a55432527b
 >
 >
 > I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
 > Was that intentional?
 >
 > Andrzej
 >
 >
 >
 > ___
 > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
 > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
 > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Seth Hillbrand]

I have a number of zones on non-copper layers in older designs.  They used
to have the attached dialog.

But setting the width of a graphical polygon to 0 removes the size
issue Andrzej mentioned.

For filling vs. non-filling, I don't personally see the usefulness in
having the fill algorithm run over a polygon that will always be filled.
But maybe there's a use-case I'm missing?

-S

2018-02-23 16:26 GMT-08:00 Jon Evans :

> I went back to an older version of master (back around September of last
> year) and I can't make a zone on a non-copper layer that behaves like a
> copper zone.  Even when using the zone tool, they behave like graphic
> polygons.
> Were you able to do this up until Orson's recent change?  If so, how do
> you do it?
>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Andrzej Wolski 
> wrote:
>
>> Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than zones and I
>> think they both should be there.
>>
>> I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be always solid.
>>
>> Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".
>>
>> There are many designs which already have zones on non coppers layers, so
>> Kicad will have to support them anyway, but users won't be able to place
>> new ones?
>>
>> Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon outline is
>> drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting object will have the same
>> dimensions, but polygon will be 10x10mm + outline width.
>>
>> Andrzej
>>
>>
>> W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:
>>
>> The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.
>>
>> Andrzej, does this tool not work?
>>
>> -S
>>
>> 2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh :
>>
>>> Orson,
>>>
>>> Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on non-copper layers?
>>>  The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate there was a
>>> reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until we get
>>> this resolved.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>> On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
>>> > Hello,
>>> >
>>> > after this change:
>>> > https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a0
>>> 5de19293a8ce5a55432527b
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
>>> > Was that intentional?
>>> >
>>> > Andrzej
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I'm seeing this as well.  Andrzej, are you sure this is correct?  Can 
you not edit zones on non-copper layers any longer?


On 02/23/2018 07:26 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
I went back to an older version of master (back around September of last 
year) and I can't make a zone on a non-copper layer that behaves like a 
copper zone.  Even when using the zone tool, they behave like graphic 
polygons.
Were you able to do this up until Orson's recent change?  If so, how do 
you do it?


On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Andrzej Wolski > wrote:


Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than zones
and I think they both should be there.

I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be always solid.

Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".

There are many designs which already have zones on non coppers
layers, so Kicad will have to support them anyway, but users won't
be able to place new ones?

Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon outline is
drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting object will have the
same dimensions, but polygon will be 10x10mm + outline width.

Andrzej


W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:

The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.

Andrzej, does this tool not work?

-S

2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh >:

Orson,

Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on
non-copper layers?
 The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate
there was a
reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until
we get
this resolved.

Thanks,

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> Hello,
>
> after this change:
>

https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b


>
>
> I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
> Was that intentional?
>
> Andrzej
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Jon Evans]

I went back to an older version of master (back around September of last
year) and I can't make a zone on a non-copper layer that behaves like a
copper zone.  Even when using the zone tool, they behave like graphic
polygons.
Were you able to do this up until Orson's recent change?  If so, how do you
do it?

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Andrzej Wolski 
wrote:

> Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than zones and I
> think they both should be there.
>
> I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be always solid.
>
> Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".
>
> There are many designs which already have zones on non coppers layers, so
> Kicad will have to support them anyway, but users won't be able to place
> new ones?
>
> Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon outline is
> drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting object will have the same
> dimensions, but polygon will be 10x10mm + outline width.
>
> Andrzej
>
>
> W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:
>
> The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.
>
> Andrzej, does this tool not work?
>
> -S
>
> 2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh :
>
>> Orson,
>>
>> Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on non-copper layers?
>>  The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate there was a
>> reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until we get
>> this resolved.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > after this change:
>> > https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a0
>> 5de19293a8ce5a55432527b
>> >
>> >
>> > I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
>> > Was that intentional?
>> >
>> > Andrzej
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

Polygons do work, but they are different kind of object than zones and I 
think they both should be there.


I think zones suppose to flood, while polygons should be always solid.

Polygons do not currently have "do not show filled".

There are many designs which already have zones on non coppers layers, 
so Kicad will have to support them anyway, but users won't be able to 
place new ones?


Also note that there is difference in how zone vs polygon outline is 
drawn. When you draw 10x10mm zone, resulting object will have the same 
dimensions, but polygon will be 10x10mm + outline width.


Andrzej


W dniu 2018-02-24 o 00:49, Seth Hillbrand pisze:

The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.

Andrzej, does this tool not work?

-S

2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh >:


Orson,

Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on non-copper
layers?
 The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate there
was a
reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until we get
this resolved.

Thanks,

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> Hello,
>
> after this change:
>

https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b


>
>
> I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
> Was that intentional?
>
> Andrzej
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Jon Evans]

Yes, this is not really a bug.  The behavior of the "draw polygon" tool is
the same as the zone tool on non-copper layers used to be.

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 6:49 PM, Seth Hillbrand 
wrote:

> The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.
>
> Andrzej, does this tool not work?
>
> -S
>
> 2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh :
>
>> Orson,
>>
>> Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on non-copper layers?
>>  The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate there was a
>> reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until we get
>> this resolved.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > after this change:
>> > https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a0
>> 5de19293a8ce5a55432527b
>> >
>> >
>> > I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
>> > Was that intentional?
>> >
>> > Andrzej
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
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>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Seth Hillbrand]

The graphical polygon tool works for non-copper layers.

Andrzej, does this tool not work?

-S

2018-02-23 15:28 GMT-08:00 Wayne Stambaugh :

> Orson,
>
> Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on non-copper layers?
>  The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate there was a
> reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until we get
> this resolved.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
> On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > after this change:
> > https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=
> fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b
> >
> >
> > I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
> > Was that intentional?
> >
> > Andrzej
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Inc/DecAlpha code review patch

[Wayne Stambaugh]

On 02/23/2018 05:41 PM, Steven A. Falco wrote:
> On 02/23/2018 04:05 PM, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>> On 02/23/2018 03:43 PM, Andy Peters wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On Feb 23, 2018, at 6:05 AM, Jeff Young  wrote:

 This patch addresses code review comments to the Inc/DecAlpha bug fix.

 <0004-Address-inc-decAlpha-bug-fix-code-review-comments.patch>
>>>
>>> Completely off the topic, but when I saw the subject line, I thought, 
>>> “Kicad runs on the DEC Alpha processor??”
>>>
>>> -a (showing his age)
>>
>> I had the pleasure of using a DEC microVAX at my first job!  You are
>> definitely date yourself when you can say that you've used one unless
>> you are in the business of restoring computers for museums. :)
> 
> Now I feel old.  I started out on a CDC 8090 at school, with two 4k banks of 
> core.  That was around 1974.
> 
> When I got to move off that machine to a PDP 11/70 I felt like I had died and 
> gone to heaven. :-)
> 
>   Steve
> 

You've got me beat by quite a bit. :)

Wayne

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Orson,

Is there any reason not to allow zones to be drawn on non-copper layers?
 The changes you made in this commit would seem to indicate there was a
reason not to allow this.  I'm going to hold off on rc1 until we get
this resolved.

Thanks,

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 06:10 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> after this change:
> https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b
> 
> 
> I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
> Was that intentional?
> 
> Andrzej
> 
> 
> 
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[Kicad-developers] Non copper zones

[Andrzej Wolski]

Hello,

after this change:
https://git.launchpad.net/kicad/commit/?id=fea71c9f8f02c59a05de19293a8ce5a55432527b

I can no logner draw zones on non copper layers.
Was that intentional?

Andrzej



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Re: [Kicad-developers] Inc/DecAlpha code review patch

[Steven A. Falco]

On 02/23/2018 04:05 PM, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> On 02/23/2018 03:43 PM, Andy Peters wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 23, 2018, at 6:05 AM, Jeff Young  wrote:
>>>
>>> This patch addresses code review comments to the Inc/DecAlpha bug fix.
>>>
>>> <0004-Address-inc-decAlpha-bug-fix-code-review-comments.patch>
>>
>> Completely off the topic, but when I saw the subject line, I thought, “Kicad 
>> runs on the DEC Alpha processor??”
>>
>> -a (showing his age)
> 
> I had the pleasure of using a DEC microVAX at my first job!  You are
> definitely date yourself when you can say that you've used one unless
> you are in the business of restoring computers for museums. :)

Now I feel old.  I started out on a CDC 8090 at school, with two 4k banks of 
core.  That was around 1974.

When I got to move off that machine to a PDP 11/70 I felt like I had died and 
gone to heaven. :-)

Steve


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Re: [Kicad-developers] IPC-2581

[Cirilo Bernardo]

In this case the standards document IPC2581 is freely available. Some
large corporations in the EU use it but otherwise adoption is a bit
slow (but hey, it took IPv6 almost 20 years to get anywhere). Years
ago I was hoping to find time to implement it so that anyone required
to use it for work will have it available, but I just never had the
time.

Cirilo

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Kevin Cozens  wrote:
> On 2018-02-20 11:19 AM, Ouabache Designworks wrote:
>>
>> Does Kicad have anyone working with these folks?
>
> [snip]
>>
>>
>> http://www.ipc2581.com/articles-and-blogs/
>
>
> I took a look at the website. It sounds interesting but they don't have a
> lot of information available on the site. Part of what I see is what I
> consider one of those typical industry things where you need to join the
> organization in order to gain access to the information. I suspect that to
> get a copy of the actual standard you will have to give them some money at
> some point.
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Kevin.
>
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
> | powerful!"
> #include  | --Chris Hardwick
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Eeli Kaikkonen]

Oh well, I can't share with google drive... This should work better:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1G1DDjlusNYpZ63m9ymXgBXRD0isOziCz

2018-02-23 23:09 GMT+02:00 Eeli Kaikkonen :

> I also think it's an improvement, something which I had in mind. As we
> have seen there are countless of details which could be changed, but it's
> difficult to say which are useful. For what it's worth, a bit earlier I
> used QtDesigner to create a mock-up widget. It has some ideas which could
> or could not be implemented, do with them what you want.
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Mr2lNJuTl3Z0l0WEtyYkdmd28/
> view?usp=sharing
>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Jeff Young]

My straw man would be that we need to get out of the heuristics game.  When we 
get them wrong, customers file bugs and lose confidence in their understanding 
of the program.

If we have a checkbox that says “Through Hole Pads”, then it should toggle the 
visibility of through hole pads.

That would also imply that “Footprints Front” should toggle just the outlines 
since we have a separate control for “Footprint Text Front”.  But that’s all 
good; today’s “Footprints Front” is too close to F.SilkS anyway.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 23 Feb 2018, at 21:21, Wayne Stambaugh  wrote:
> 
> Before we do any more tweaking, we should definitely agree on the
> visibility behavior and stick too it.   Otherwise this will be a never
> ending cycle of changes.  I think what we have in place is a big
> improvement any further tweaking be put off to v6.  This way we have the
> time to perhaps do something more granular and let the user define their
> own visibility settings.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> On 02/23/2018 03:46 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>> I'm fine with renaming to SMD pads.
>> Right now the logic (implemented by Andrzej, not me by the way) assumes
>> that all pads are associated with footprints, and if footprint display
>> is turned off, hides pads (SMD and through hole)
>> Seems like lots of people have different opinions on what those switches
>> should do :-)
>> 
>> In my humble opinion, it would make more sense to hide everything *but*
>> the pads when you uncheck the footprint boxes, but some other people
>> really want the pads to be hidden so they can check for "stray traces"
>> under the pads.
>> 
>> So, we can keep tweaking this, but maybe not until after RC1 so we stop
>> delaying it any further :-)
>> 
>> -Jon
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Jeff Young > >> wrote:
>> 
>>Hi Jon,
>> 
>>Just playing with the new render palette.  It’s a big improvement.
>> 
>>However, I noted that turning off Footprints turns off through-hole
>>pads.  Since we have a separate option for that, it’s
>>counter-intuitive to have Footprints also control it.  (And, when
>>one wants to see the copper and nothing else, you want pads without
>>footprints.)
>> 
>>Also, it’s easy to think Front Pads or Back Pads should show them. 
>>I understand the distinction, but shouldn’t we name them Front SMD
>>Pads and Back SMD Pads to make it clearer?
>> 
>>Cheers,
>>Jeff.
>> 
>>> On 23 Feb 2018, at 15:35, jp charras >> 
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Le 23/02/2018 à 16:12, Jon Evans a écrit :
 You can commit that, but I can't quite tell why there are two
>>different functions ReFillRender() and
 SyncRenderStates(); they do mostly the same thing so it seems
>>best to just collapse them into one to
 avoid bugs in the future.
 The attached patch removes SyncRenderStates -- please let me know
>>if this makes sense to you also.
 
 Thanks,
 -Jon
 
>>> 
>>> I committed you patch.
>>> 
>>> It makes sense to me, and this is the right way to fix this issue.
>>> Sometimes code cleanup is needed.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
 
 On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:05 AM, jp charras
>> 
>> >
>> 
>>  If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top of
>>PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates() instead of my
> change, does it fix it?
> 
 
 Yes, just adding the call fixes this issue.
 Can I commit this fix?
 
 
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras
>> 
>> >
  
 >>
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> 
> wrote:
> 
>   Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
>   > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
>   >
>   > -Jon
>   >
>   > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> 

Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Before we do any more tweaking, we should definitely agree on the
visibility behavior and stick too it.   Otherwise this will be a never
ending cycle of changes.  I think what we have in place is a big
improvement any further tweaking be put off to v6.  This way we have the
time to perhaps do something more granular and let the user define their
own visibility settings.

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 03:46 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> I'm fine with renaming to SMD pads.
> Right now the logic (implemented by Andrzej, not me by the way) assumes
> that all pads are associated with footprints, and if footprint display
> is turned off, hides pads (SMD and through hole)
> Seems like lots of people have different opinions on what those switches
> should do :-)
> 
> In my humble opinion, it would make more sense to hide everything *but*
> the pads when you uncheck the footprint boxes, but some other people
> really want the pads to be hidden so they can check for "stray traces"
> under the pads.
> 
> So, we can keep tweaking this, but maybe not until after RC1 so we stop
> delaying it any further :-)
> 
> -Jon
> 
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Jeff Young  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Jon,
> 
> Just playing with the new render palette.  It’s a big improvement.
> 
> However, I noted that turning off Footprints turns off through-hole
> pads.  Since we have a separate option for that, it’s
> counter-intuitive to have Footprints also control it.  (And, when
> one wants to see the copper and nothing else, you want pads without
> footprints.)
> 
> Also, it’s easy to think Front Pads or Back Pads should show them. 
> I understand the distinction, but shouldn’t we name them Front SMD
> Pads and Back SMD Pads to make it clearer?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
> 
> > On 23 Feb 2018, at 15:35, jp charras  > wrote:
> >
> > Le 23/02/2018 à 16:12, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >> You can commit that, but I can't quite tell why there are two
> different functions ReFillRender() and
> >> SyncRenderStates(); they do mostly the same thing so it seems
> best to just collapse them into one to
> >> avoid bugs in the future.
> >> The attached patch removes SyncRenderStates -- please let me know
> if this makes sense to you also.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Jon
> >>
> >
> > I committed you patch.
> >
> > It makes sense to me, and this is the right way to fix this issue.
> > Sometimes code cleanup is needed.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:05 AM, jp charras
> 
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>    Le 23/02/2018 à 15:57, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >>> If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top of
> PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates() instead of my
> >>> change, does it fix it?
> >>>
> >>
> >>    Yes, just adding the call fixes this issue.
> >>    Can I commit this fix?
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras
> 
> >>    >
> 
>  >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>      Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >>>      > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
> >>>      >
> >>>      > -Jon
> >>>      >
> >>>      > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras
> 
> >
> >>>         >>
> >>    
> >
> 
> >>    
> >>>      > wrote:
> >>>      >
> >>>      >     Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >>>      >     > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of
> the easier changes.
> >>>      >     > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more
> urgent, so I'm not going to work
> >>    on the right-click
> >>>      >     > menu or settings persistence.
> >>>      >     >
> >>>      >     > Thanks,
> >>>      >     > Jon
> >>>      >     >
> >>>      >
> >>>      >     Hi Jon,
> >>>      >
> >>>      >     There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
> >>>      >
> 

Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Eeli Kaikkonen]

I also think it's an improvement, something which I had in mind. As we have
seen there are countless of details which could be changed, but it's
difficult to say which are useful. For what it's worth, a bit earlier I
used QtDesigner to create a mock-up widget. It has some ideas which could
or could not be implemented, do with them what you want.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Mr2lNJuTl3Z0l0WEtyYkdmd28/view?usp=sharing


2018-02-23 22:38 GMT+02:00 Jeff Young :

> Hi Jon,
>
> Just playing with the new render palette.  It’s a big improvement.
>
> However, I noted that turning off Footprints turns off through-hole pads.
> Since we have a separate option for that, it’s counter-intuitive to have
> Footprints also control it.  (And, when one wants to see the copper and
> nothing else, you want pads without footprints.)
>
> Also, it’s easy to think Front Pads or Back Pads should show them.  I
> understand the distinction, but shouldn’t we name them Front SMD Pads and
> Back SMD Pads to make it clearer?
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Inc/DecAlpha code review patch

[Wayne Stambaugh]

On 02/23/2018 03:43 PM, Andy Peters wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2018, at 6:05 AM, Jeff Young  wrote:
>>
>> This patch addresses code review comments to the Inc/DecAlpha bug fix.
>>
>> <0004-Address-inc-decAlpha-bug-fix-code-review-comments.patch>
> 
> Completely off the topic, but when I saw the subject line, I thought, “Kicad 
> runs on the DEC Alpha processor??”
> 
> -a (showing his age)

I had the pleasure of using a DEC microVAX at my first job!  You are
definitely date yourself when you can say that you've used one unless
you are in the business of restoring computers for museums. :)

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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Andrzej Wolski]

Actually that logic was already there, I just fixed hiding non footprint 
items together with pads.


Andrzej

W dniu 2018-02-23 o 21:46, Jon Evans pisze:

I'm fine with renaming to SMD pads.
Right now the logic (implemented by Andrzej, not me by the way) 
assumes that all pads are associated with footprints, and if footprint 
display is turned off, hides pads (SMD and through hole)
Seems like lots of people have different opinions on what those 
switches should do :-)


In my humble opinion, it would make more sense to hide everything 
*but* the pads when you uncheck the footprint boxes, but some other 
people really want the pads to be hidden so they can check for "stray 
traces" under the pads.


So, we can keep tweaking this, but maybe not until after RC1 so we 
stop delaying it any further :-)


-Jon

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Jeff Young > wrote:


Hi Jon,

Just playing with the new render palette.  It’s a big improvement.

However, I noted that turning off Footprints turns off
through-hole pads.  Since we have a separate option for that, it’s
counter-intuitive to have Footprints also control it.  (And, when
one wants to see the copper and nothing else, you want pads
without footprints.)

Also, it’s easy to think Front Pads or Back Pads should show
them.  I understand the distinction, but shouldn’t we name them
Front SMD Pads and Back SMD Pads to make it clearer?

Cheers,
Jeff.

> On 23 Feb 2018, at 15:35, jp charras > wrote:
>
> Le 23/02/2018 à 16:12, Jon Evans a écrit :
>> You can commit that, but I can't quite tell why there are two
different functions ReFillRender() and
>> SyncRenderStates(); they do mostly the same thing so it seems
best to just collapse them into one to
>> avoid bugs in the future.
>> The attached patch removes SyncRenderStates -- please let me
know if this makes sense to you also.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Jon
>>
>
> I committed you patch.
>
> It makes sense to me, and this is the right way to fix this issue.
> Sometimes code cleanup is needed.
>
> Thanks.
>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:05 AM, jp charras

>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    Le 23/02/2018 à 15:57, Jon Evans a écrit :
>>> If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top of
PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates() instead of my
>>> change, does it fix it?
>>>
>>
>>    Yes, just adding the call fixes this issue.
>>    Can I commit this fix?
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras

>>    >  >> wrote:
>>>
>>>      Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
>>>      > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
>>>      >
>>>      > -Jon
>>>      >
>>>      > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras

>
>>>       >>
>>    
>

>>    
>>>      > wrote:
>>>      >
>>>      >     Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
>>>      >     > Here are two more quick patches addressing some
of the easier changes.
>>>      >     > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more
urgent, so I'm not going to work
>>    on the right-click
>>>      >     > menu or settings persistence.
>>>      >     >
>>>      >     > Thanks,
>>>      >     > Jon
>>>      >     >
>>>      >
>>>      >     Hi Jon,
>>>      >
>>>      >     There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
>>>      >
>>>      >     "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings
if they are enabled"
>>>      >
>>>      >     When I load a board that have microvia and
blind/buried vias allowed, the layer
>>    manager does not
>>>      >     show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
>>>      >
>>>      >     They are displayed only after opening and closing
by OK button the Design Rules menu.
>>>      >
>>>      >     (Tested on W7/32bits)
 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Hard coded hotkeys

[hauptmech]

Thanks for pointing that out.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1751183

On 24/02/18 00:38, Nick Østergaard wrote:

Where is the bug report? Please link it here. I guess you just forgot it.

2018-02-23 4:35 GMT+01:00 hauptmech >:


Jon Evans, Kristoffer Ödmark, John Beard, and maybe Tomasz Włostowski

I filed a bug report for the temporary hard-coded hotkeys that
have not been cleaned up. I'm super motivated to not have them in
5 so if you can't get to it let me know and I'll see if I can
figure out how to do it.

-hauptmech






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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Jon Evans]

I'm fine with renaming to SMD pads.
Right now the logic (implemented by Andrzej, not me by the way) assumes
that all pads are associated with footprints, and if footprint display is
turned off, hides pads (SMD and through hole)
Seems like lots of people have different opinions on what those switches
should do :-)

In my humble opinion, it would make more sense to hide everything *but* the
pads when you uncheck the footprint boxes, but some other people really
want the pads to be hidden so they can check for "stray traces" under the
pads.

So, we can keep tweaking this, but maybe not until after RC1 so we stop
delaying it any further :-)

-Jon

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Jeff Young  wrote:

> Hi Jon,
>
> Just playing with the new render palette.  It’s a big improvement.
>
> However, I noted that turning off Footprints turns off through-hole pads.
> Since we have a separate option for that, it’s counter-intuitive to have
> Footprints also control it.  (And, when one wants to see the copper and
> nothing else, you want pads without footprints.)
>
> Also, it’s easy to think Front Pads or Back Pads should show them.  I
> understand the distinction, but shouldn’t we name them Front SMD Pads and
> Back SMD Pads to make it clearer?
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
>
> > On 23 Feb 2018, at 15:35, jp charras  wrote:
> >
> > Le 23/02/2018 à 16:12, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >> You can commit that, but I can't quite tell why there are two different
> functions ReFillRender() and
> >> SyncRenderStates(); they do mostly the same thing so it seems best to
> just collapse them into one to
> >> avoid bugs in the future.
> >> The attached patch removes SyncRenderStates -- please let me know if
> this makes sense to you also.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Jon
> >>
> >
> > I committed you patch.
> >
> > It makes sense to me, and this is the right way to fix this issue.
> > Sometimes code cleanup is needed.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:05 AM, jp charras  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>Le 23/02/2018 à 15:57, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >>> If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top of 
> >>> PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates()
> instead of my
> >>> change, does it fix it?
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yes, just adding the call fixes this issue.
> >>Can I commit this fix?
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras  >>  >>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >>>  > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
> >>>  >
> >>>  > -Jon
> >>>  >
> >>>  > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras <
> jp.char...@wanadoo.fr 
> >>>  >
> >>
>  >> >>>  > wrote:
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >>>  > > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the
> easier changes.
> >>>  > > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent,
> so I'm not going to work
> >>on the right-click
> >>>  > > menu or settings persistence.
> >>>  > >
> >>>  > > Thanks,
> >>>  > > Jon
> >>>  > >
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Hi Jon,
> >>>  >
> >>>  > There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
> >>>  >
> >>>  > "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they
> are enabled"
> >>>  >
> >>>  > When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried
> vias allowed, the layer
> >>manager does not
> >>>  > show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK
> button the Design Rules menu.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > (Tested on W7/32bits)
> >>>  >
> >>>  > --
> >>>  > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >>>
> >>>  With this patch, Pcbnew crashes when starting, but not always.
> >>>  I am thinking m_Layers->ReFillRender(); is called too early, when
> initializations are not yet
> >>>  finished
> >>>
> >>>  In fact it is called before m_Layers is initialized.
> >>>
> >>>  The fix is easy, but when loading a file, syncRenderStates(); is
> called
> >>>  (files_io.cpp line 592)
> >>>
> >>>  Perhaps the root issue is SyncRenderStates() is missing some
> initializations.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  --
> >>>  Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> > Post to 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Inc/DecAlpha code review patch

[Andy Peters]

> On Feb 23, 2018, at 6:05 AM, Jeff Young  wrote:
> 
> This patch addresses code review comments to the Inc/DecAlpha bug fix.
> 
> <0004-Address-inc-decAlpha-bug-fix-code-review-comments.patch>

Completely off the topic, but when I saw the subject line, I thought, “Kicad 
runs on the DEC Alpha processor??”

-a (showing his age)
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Jeff Young]

Hi Jon,

Just playing with the new render palette.  It’s a big improvement.

However, I noted that turning off Footprints turns off through-hole pads.  
Since we have a separate option for that, it’s counter-intuitive to have 
Footprints also control it.  (And, when one wants to see the copper and nothing 
else, you want pads without footprints.)

Also, it’s easy to think Front Pads or Back Pads should show them.  I 
understand the distinction, but shouldn’t we name them Front SMD Pads and Back 
SMD Pads to make it clearer?

Cheers,
Jeff.

> On 23 Feb 2018, at 15:35, jp charras  wrote:
> 
> Le 23/02/2018 à 16:12, Jon Evans a écrit :
>> You can commit that, but I can't quite tell why there are two different 
>> functions ReFillRender() and
>> SyncRenderStates(); they do mostly the same thing so it seems best to just 
>> collapse them into one to
>> avoid bugs in the future.
>> The attached patch removes SyncRenderStates -- please let me know if this 
>> makes sense to you also.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Jon
>> 
> 
> I committed you patch.
> 
> It makes sense to me, and this is the right way to fix this issue.
> Sometimes code cleanup is needed.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:05 AM, jp charras > >
>> wrote:
>> 
>>Le 23/02/2018 à 15:57, Jon Evans a écrit :
>>> If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top of 
>>> PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates() instead of my
>>> change, does it fix it?
>>> 
>> 
>>Yes, just adding the call fixes this issue.
>>Can I commit this fix?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras > > >>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
>>>  > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
>>>  >
>>>  > -Jon
>>>  >
>>>  > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras >> 
>>>  >
>> 
>> >>>  > wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  > Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
>>>  > > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the easier 
>>> changes.
>>>  > > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so 
>>> I'm not going to work
>>on the right-click
>>>  > > menu or settings persistence.
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Thanks,
>>>  > > Jon
>>>  > >
>>>  >
>>>  > Hi Jon,
>>>  >
>>>  > There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
>>>  >
>>>  > "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they are 
>>> enabled"
>>>  >
>>>  > When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried vias 
>>> allowed, the layer
>>manager does not
>>>  > show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
>>>  >
>>>  > They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK button 
>>> the Design Rules menu.
>>>  >
>>>  > (Tested on W7/32bits)
>>>  >
>>>  > --
>>>  > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>>> 
>>>  With this patch, Pcbnew crashes when starting, but not always.
>>>  I am thinking m_Layers->ReFillRender(); is called too early, when 
>>> initializations are not yet
>>>  finished
>>> 
>>>  In fact it is called before m_Layers is initialized.
>>> 
>>>  The fix is easy, but when loading a file, syncRenderStates(); is called
>>>  (files_io.cpp line 592)
>>> 
>>>  Perhaps the root issue is SyncRenderStates() is missing some 
>>> initializations.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  --
>>>  Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>--
>>Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Nightly builds.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Hi Simon,

Thanks.  I've never used a RelWithDebInfo build.  What kind of debugging
info would this give me if I ran it gdb?  Would it be good enough for
someone to do produce useful debugging information performing a
backtrace on a segfault?

Wayne

On 02/23/2018 12:26 PM, Simon Richter wrote:
> Hi Wayne,
> 
> On 23.02.2018 18:00, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> 
>> Are our nightly windows builds built with debugging information?  I was
>> just curious.  The file sizes would indicate that they may be but given
>> the current size of the libraries it's hard to tell.
> 
> Yes, the CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE is set to RelWithDebInfo for nightlies[1], and
> left at default (Release) for stable[2].
> 
>Simon
> 
> [1] https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-winbuilder/blob/master/PKGBUILD
> [2] https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-winbuilder/blob/master/PKGBUILD-STABLE
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Nightly builds.

[Simon Richter]

Hi Wayne,

On 23.02.2018 18:00, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:

> Are our nightly windows builds built with debugging information?  I was
> just curious.  The file sizes would indicate that they may be but given
> the current size of the libraries it's hard to tell.

Yes, the CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE is set to RelWithDebInfo for nightlies[1], and
left at default (Release) for stable[2].

   Simon

[1] https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-winbuilder/blob/master/PKGBUILD
[2] https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-winbuilder/blob/master/PKGBUILD-STABLE



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[Kicad-developers] Decimal separator characters

[Jeff Young]

We had a discussion a while back about local-specific decimal characters in 
which JP made the point that we don’t have any use for thousands separators, 
and so we might as well accept either separator (. or ,).

I *thought* at the time that it was mentioned that Kicad already did this, but 
I can’t find any evidence of it (certainly not in libEval).

Am I looking in the wrong place?

If not, do we want to make this change?  (It would be a very simple change in 
libEval.)

Cheers,
Jeff.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1751315
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[Kicad-developers] Version 5 branch update

[Wayne Stambaugh]

It's looking like I will be able to create the version 5 branch and tag
rc1 this evening unless an expected critical bug pops up before then.
If any of the lead developers have something they are planning on
pushing, please do it in the next few hours or it will have to wait for
rc2.  For regular contributors, please refrain from slamming me with a
bunch of patches for non-critical bugs.  I will make an announcement
this evening before I branch to make sure no unexpected pushes interfere
with the branch and tag.  Thank you everyone for working tirelessly to
make this happen.  Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Wayne

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[Kicad-developers] Nightly builds.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Are our nightly windows builds built with debugging information?  I was
just curious.  The file sizes would indicate that they may be but given
the current size of the libraries it's hard to tell.

Thanks,

Wayne

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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 16:12, Jon Evans a écrit :
> You can commit that, but I can't quite tell why there are two different 
> functions ReFillRender() and
> SyncRenderStates(); they do mostly the same thing so it seems best to just 
> collapse them into one to
> avoid bugs in the future.
> The attached patch removes SyncRenderStates -- please let me know if this 
> makes sense to you also.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Jon
> 

I committed you patch.

It makes sense to me, and this is the right way to fix this issue.
Sometimes code cleanup is needed.

Thanks.

> 
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:05 AM, jp charras  >
> wrote:
> 
> Le 23/02/2018 à 15:57, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top of 
> PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates() instead of my
> > change, does it fix it?
> >
> 
> Yes, just adding the call fixes this issue.
> Can I commit this fix?
> 
> 
> > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras    >>
> > wrote:
> >
> >     Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >     > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
> >     >
> >     > -Jon
> >     >
> >     > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras 
> 
> >     >
>  
>   >     > wrote:
> >     >
> >     >     Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >     >     > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the 
> easier changes.
> >     >     > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so 
> I'm not going to work
> on the right-click
> >     >     > menu or settings persistence.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Thanks,
> >     >     > Jon
> >     >     >
> >     >
> >     >     Hi Jon,
> >     >
> >     >     There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
> >     >
> >     >     "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they are 
> enabled"
> >     >
> >     >     When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried vias 
> allowed, the layer
> manager does not
> >     >     show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
> >     >
> >     >     They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK 
> button the Design Rules menu.
> >     >
> >     >     (Tested on W7/32bits)
> >     >
> >     >     --
> >     >     Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >
> >     With this patch, Pcbnew crashes when starting, but not always.
> >     I am thinking m_Layers->ReFillRender(); is called too early, when 
> initializations are not yet
> >     finished
> >
> >     In fact it is called before m_Layers is initialized.
> >
> >     The fix is easy, but when loading a file, syncRenderStates(); is 
> called
> >     (files_io.cpp line 592)
> >
> >     Perhaps the root issue is SyncRenderStates() is missing some 
> initializations.
> >
> >
> >
> >     --
> >     Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> 
> 


-- 
Jean-Pierre CHARRAS

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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Jon Evans]

You can commit that, but I can't quite tell why there are two different
functions ReFillRender() and SyncRenderStates(); they do mostly the same
thing so it seems best to just collapse them into one to avoid bugs in the
future.
The attached patch removes SyncRenderStates -- please let me know if this
makes sense to you also.

Thanks,
-Jon


On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:05 AM, jp charras  wrote:

> Le 23/02/2018 à 15:57, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top of 
> > PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates()
> instead of my
> > change, does it fix it?
> >
>
> Yes, just adding the call fixes this issue.
> Can I commit this fix?
>
>
> > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
> > >
> > > -Jon
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras  >   >>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > > > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the
> easier changes.
> > > > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so
> I'm not going to work on the right-click
> > > > menu or settings persistence.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Jon
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Jon,
> > >
> > > There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
> > >
> > > "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they are
> enabled"
> > >
> > > When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried vias
> allowed, the layer manager does not
> > > show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
> > >
> > > They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK button
> the Design Rules menu.
> > >
> > > (Tested on W7/32bits)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >
> > With this patch, Pcbnew crashes when starting, but not always.
> > I am thinking m_Layers->ReFillRender(); is called too early, when
> initializations are not yet
> > finished
> >
> > In fact it is called before m_Layers is initialized.
> >
> > The fix is easy, but when loading a file, syncRenderStates(); is
> called
> > (files_io.cpp line 592)
> >
> > Perhaps the root issue is SyncRenderStates() is missing some
> initializations.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>


0001-Merge-PCB_LAYER_WIDGET-SyncRenderStates-into-ReFillR.patch
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 15:57, Jon Evans a écrit :
> If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top of 
> PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates() instead of my
> change, does it fix it?
> 

Yes, just adding the call fixes this issue.
Can I commit this fix?


> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras  >
> wrote:
> 
> Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
> >
> > -Jon
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras    >>
> > wrote:
> >
> >     Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> >     > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the easier 
> changes.
> >     > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so I'm 
> not going to work on the right-click
> >     > menu or settings persistence.
> >     >
> >     > Thanks,
> >     > Jon
> >     >
> >
> >     Hi Jon,
> >
> >     There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
> >
> >     "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they are 
> enabled"
> >
> >     When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried vias 
> allowed, the layer manager does not
> >     show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
> >
> >     They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK button the 
> Design Rules menu.
> >
> >     (Tested on W7/32bits)
> >
> >     --
> >     Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> 
> With this patch, Pcbnew crashes when starting, but not always.
> I am thinking m_Layers->ReFillRender(); is called too early, when 
> initializations are not yet
> finished
> 
> In fact it is called before m_Layers is initialized.
> 
> The fix is easy, but when loading a file, syncRenderStates(); is called
> (files_io.cpp line 592)
> 
> Perhaps the root issue is SyncRenderStates() is missing some 
> initializations.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> 
> 


-- 
Jean-Pierre CHARRAS

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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Jon Evans]

If you add a call to ReFillRender() at the top
of PCB_LAYER_WIDGET::SyncRenderStates() instead of my change, does it fix
it?

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:54 AM, jp charras  wrote:

> Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
> >
> > -Jon
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the easier
> changes.
> > > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so I'm
> not going to work on the right-click
> > > menu or settings persistence.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jon
> > >
> >
> > Hi Jon,
> >
> > There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
> >
> > "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they are
> enabled"
> >
> > When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried vias
> allowed, the layer manager does not
> > show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
> >
> > They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK button the
> Design Rules menu.
> >
> > (Tested on W7/32bits)
> >
> > --
> > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>
> With this patch, Pcbnew crashes when starting, but not always.
> I am thinking m_Layers->ReFillRender(); is called too early, when
> initializations are not yet finished
>
> In fact it is called before m_Layers is initialized.
>
> The fix is easy, but when loading a file, syncRenderStates(); is called
> (files_io.cpp line 592)
>
> Perhaps the root issue is SyncRenderStates() is missing some
> initializations.
>
>
>
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 14:24, Jon Evans a écrit :
> Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me
> 
> -Jon
> 
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras  >
> wrote:
> 
> Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the easier changes.
> > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so I'm not 
> going to work on the right-click
> > menu or settings persistence.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jon
> >
> 
> Hi Jon,
> 
> There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
> 
> "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they are enabled"
> 
> When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried vias allowed, the 
> layer manager does not
> show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
> 
> They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK button the Design 
> Rules menu.
> 
> (Tested on W7/32bits)
> 
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS

With this patch, Pcbnew crashes when starting, but not always.
I am thinking m_Layers->ReFillRender(); is called too early, when 
initializations are not yet finished

In fact it is called before m_Layers is initialized.

The fix is easy, but when loading a file, syncRenderStates(); is called
(files_io.cpp line 592)

Perhaps the root issue is SyncRenderStates() is missing some initializations.



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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Before anyone decides to take on this task, I have some very concrete
ideas about creating a plot manager for creating plot tasks which will
allow users (me) to set up a plot (and possibly other exports) task that
includes all of the plots I use in production and perform this task with
a single button click.  This has been on my radar for a while, whether
or not I have time to work on it during v6 remains to be seen but I do
have some very specific ideas on how I think this should work and be
designed.  I don't have time to discuss this at the moment but after v5
is released, I will try to make some time to put together a proposal.

Cheers,

Wayne

On 2/22/2018 7:34 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> Is there already a bug report for that?  We should make sure to keep
> track of all this so if someone has time to do some kind of
> settings-saving overhaul for V6 we catch all of that stuff.
> 
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:31 PM, José Ignacio  > wrote:
> 
> One thing that is very inconsistent is that layer settings for
> plotting gerbers are saved in the board file (as they should), but
> settings for the drill file are saved in the global kicad settings
> (which means that if i have two different projects that need
> different drill settings i need to remember to change them back and
> forth). In an ideal world those settings would be saved in a CAM
> file with the project, but having them saved in the board file is
> the second best.
> 
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 3:28 PM, Eeli Kaikkonen
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 2018-02-22 23:05 GMT+02:00 Tiger12506  >:
> 
> I agree 100% on separate file. As someone who puts kicad
> files in git, the most irritating thing in the world is
> having unrelated changes in your diff. Separate file gives
> you the flexibility to have either situation -- if you want
> the vcs to track it, you include the file, if you don't,
> your vcs ignores the file. It's unfortunate that there are
> already UI states in any of the files that represent a design.
> 
> Cheers. :)
> 
> 
> I agree, too. As a both end user and someone who has studied
> usability I know the current situation creates unnecessary
> cognitive and emotinal stress for the end user. Many times a
> user can't be sure or can't remember what he/she actually did or
> if he did something by accident. Seeing the message that
> something was changed is disturbing because you can't know what
> happened and what will be saved. If the non-design-related data
> would be in a separate file it wouldn't even have to be asked
> about IMO because it's safe to save always, it's not critical
> data in any way.
> 
> But about the compatibility between versions - what kind of
> compatibility would be needed? I just tried deleting the layers
> section from a board file. Pcbnew opened it happily. So, let's
> suppose v5.1 is released later with this change in file format:
> extra data is not stored in the kicad_pcb file but in another
> file. If the project is created with 5.1 then 5.0 can read it,
> it just doesn't restore the layer visibility. How serious would
> that be? If the project was created with 5.0, then 5.1 could
> also handle it (if the code which reads the file wasn't
> changed). It could either save the data in the compatible way or
> take it off from the design file and move it to the other file.
> 
> How KiCad reacts to removing other non-design data from the
> file, I don't know.
> 
> Eeli Kaikkonen
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Jon Evans]

Hi JP, good catch, the attached fixes it for me

-Jon

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:18 AM, jp charras  wrote:

> Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> > Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the easier changes.
> > I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so I'm not
> going to work on the right-click
> > menu or settings persistence.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jon
> >
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:
>
> "Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they are enabled"
>
> When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried vias allowed, the
> layer manager does not
> show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.
>
> They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK button the Design
> Rules menu.
>
> (Tested on W7/32bits)
>
> --
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>
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From d659420969f56036c7ab15464f99f5d864f7d7e3 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Jon Evans 
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:25:01 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] Fix display of via settings on initial board load

---
 pcbnew/pcb_edit_frame.cpp | 4 
 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)

diff --git a/pcbnew/pcb_edit_frame.cpp b/pcbnew/pcb_edit_frame.cpp
index dd3c79398..132044127 100644
--- a/pcbnew/pcb_edit_frame.cpp
+++ b/pcbnew/pcb_edit_frame.cpp
@@ -556,6 +556,10 @@ void PCB_EDIT_FRAME::SetBoard( BOARD* aBoard )
 // reload the worksheet
 SetPageSettings( aBoard->GetPageSettings() );
 }
+
+// Refill items list after design rules loaded
+if( m_Layers )
+m_Layers->ReFillRender();
 }
 
 
-- 
2.14.1

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Inc/DecAlpha code review patch

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 14:05, Jeff Young a écrit :
> This patch addresses code review comments to the Inc/DecAlpha bug fix.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
> 

I committed your patch. Thanks.

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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH/RFC] Eeschema menubar

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 13:46, Jeff Young a écrit :
> This patch fixes a copy/paste compile error (Mac-only) in the menu changes.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff.

I committed this patch. Thanks.


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[Kicad-developers] Inc/DecAlpha code review patch

[Jeff Young]

This patch addresses code review comments to the Inc/DecAlpha bug fix.



0004-Address-inc-decAlpha-bug-fix-code-review-comments.patch
Description: Binary data


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Getting kicad to work with wxPython Phoenix

[Nick Østergaard]

Hi Miles,

I use archlinux and used this AUR package to install phoenix,
https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=python-wxpython-phoenix

Then I applied your patch and added that header file to kicad as shown on
https://github.com/nickoe/kicad-source-mirror/compare/master...nickoe:diffs_for_phoenix

Then I think I just hit cmake; make

Nick

2018-02-22 11:16 GMT+01:00 miles mccoo :

> So I'd like to help out and take a look, but getting wxphoenix with gtk2
> is proving a bit challenging. I did manage to install something (albeit the
> wrong one) in the past.
>
> Nick, what command did you use to install?
>
>
> Miles
>
>
> I have a fresh virtual ubuntu 16.04 install.
>
> I think I ran my normal pkg installs.
>
> sudo apt-get -y install libwxgtk3.0-0v5 libglew-dev libcairo2-dev libbz2-dev 
> doxygen libssl-dev libboost-dev libboost-thread-dev libboost-context-dev 
> libboost-filesystem-dev libboost-iostreams-dev libboost-locale-dev 
> libboost-program-options-dev swig python-wxgtk3.0* git cmake libwxgtk3.0 
> libglm-dev libcurl3 libcurl3-dev python-dev
>
>
> I ran the installs recommended on the wxpython page
> sudo apt install  dpkg-dev build-essential libjpeg-dev libtiff-dev
> libsdl1.2-dev libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev libnotify-dev freeglut3
> freeglut3-dev libsm-dev
>
> sudo apt-get -y install libwxgtk3.0-0v5 libglew-dev libcairo2-dev libbz2-dev 
> doxygen libssl-dev libboost-dev libboost-thread-dev libboost-context-dev 
> libboost-filesystem-dev libboost-iostreams-dev libboost-locale-dev 
> libboost-program-options-dev swig python-wxgtk3.0* git cmake libwxgtk3.0 
> libglm-dev libcurl3 libcurl3-dev python-dev
>
> I later removed wx with gtk3 which was somehow part of my standard installs
>
> sudo apt remove libwxgtk3.0
> sudo apt remove python-wxgtk3.0*
>
>
> sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev
> sudo apt install libwebkitgtk-dev
>
> wget https://wxpython.org/Phoenix/snapshot-builds/wxPython-4.0.
> 2a1.dev3684+086967a.tar.gz
>
> sudo pip install --upgrade --pre -f wxPython-4.0.2a1.dev3684+086967a.tar.gz
> wxPython
>
>
> I get a bunch of spew including these:
>
> Configure options: ['--enable-unicode', '--with-gtk=3',
> '--with-opengl', '--enable-sound', '--enable-graphics_ctx',
> '--enable-mediactrl', '--enable-display', '--enable-geometry',
> '--enable-debug_flag', '--enable-optimise', '--disable-debugreport',
> '--enable-uiactionsim', '--with-sdl']
> /tmp/pip-build-W4npQK/wxPython/ext/wxWidgets/configure
> --enable-unicode --with-gtk=3 --with-opengl --enable-sound
> --enable-graphics_ctx --enable-mediactrl --enable-display --enable-geometry
> --enable-debug_flag --enable-optimise --disable-debugreport
> --enable-uiactionsim --with-sdl
>
>
>checking for GTK+ - version >= 3.0.0... Package gtk+-3.0 was not found
> in the pkg-config search path.
> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gtk+-3.0.pc'
> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
> No package 'gtk+-3.0' found
> no
> *** Could not run GTK+ test program, checking why...
> *** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file
> config.log for the
> *** exact error that occured. This usually means GTK+ is incorrectly
> installed.
> configure: error:
> The development files for GTK+ were not found. For GTK+ 2, please
> ensure that pkg-config is in the path and that gtk+-2.0.pc is
> installed. For GTK+ 1.2 please check that gtk-config is in the path,
> and that the version is 1.2.3 or above. Also check that the
> libraries returned by 'pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --libs' or 'gtk-config
> --libs' are in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH or equivalent.
>
>
>
> pkg-config seems to be ok
> pkg-config gtk+-2.0 --libs
> -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 -latk-1.0 -lcairo
> -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lgio-2.0 -lpangoft2-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0
> -lglib-2.0 -lfontconfig -lfreetype
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:13 PM, Carsten Schoenert <
> c.schoen...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> Hello Wayne,
>>
>> as Nick has written about a different part in this thread ...
>>
>> Am 24.11.17 um 14:00 schrieb Wayne Stambaugh:
>> > I'm surprised there is no RFP for phoenix yet given that it will (has)
>> > become the replacement for wxpython.  wxpython is a dead code base as
>> > far as I know.  I certainly can create an RFP for phoenix but I am in no
>> > position to actually help with the packaging.
>>
>> Everybody can open up a RFP in Debian, so $somebody just needs to it. :-)
>>
>> But, in the between time a ITP (Intent To Package) was opened for
>> wxpython4.0 [1] some days ago. And since a few days a prepared binary
>> package set is waiting in NEW [2] to get processed by the FTP Masters.
>> So there is some light out there. ;)
>>
>> The upload was addressed into unstable so it should get into unstable
>> and a few days later into testings once it gets accepted.
>>
>> [1] https://bugs.debian.org/888554
>> [2] 

Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH/RFC] Eeschema menubar

[Jeff Young]

This patch fixes a copy/paste compile error (Mac-only) in the menu changes.



0003-Fix-copy-paste-compile-error-on-Mac.patch
Description: Binary data


Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 23 Feb 2018, at 01:52, Wayne Stambaugh  wrote:
> 
> Michael,
> 
> I merged your patches.  Thank you for your contribution to KiCad.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Wayne
> 
> On 02/22/2018 02:28 PM, Michael Kavanagh wrote:
>> You guessed it. Also some very minor modifications to the Kicad manager 
>> menubar.
>> Cheers,
>> Michael
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 01:04, Jon Evans a écrit :
> Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the easier changes.
> I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so I'm not going to 
> work on the right-click
> menu or settings persistence.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jon
> 

Hi Jon,

There is a (minor but annoying) issue about patch:

"Only show microvia and blind/buried via settings if they are enabled"

When I load a board that have microvia and blind/buried vias allowed, the layer 
manager does not
show the microvia and blind/buried vias menuitems.

They are displayed only after opening and closing by OK button the Design Rules 
menu.

(Tested on W7/32bits)

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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Rearrange Render panel of PcbNew layer widget; add spacers

[Wayne Stambaugh]

John,

I merged your patch.  Thanks.

Wayne

On 02/22/2018 07:04 PM, Jon Evans wrote:

Here are two more quick patches addressing some of the easier changes.
I have some other bugs to look at that seem more urgent, so I'm not 
going to work on the right-click menu or settings persistence.


Thanks,
Jon

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:15 PM, Wayne Stambaugh > wrote:


Patch merged.  Thanks.


On 02/21/2018 11:39 PM, Jon Evans wrote:

Hi all,

This patch rearranges the Render panel to be in a more logical
order, and adds some whitespace.
I divided it into three groupings:
1) footprint related
2) other board objects
3) non-board stuff like grid, ratlines, etc.

I also bumped out the default size so that scrollbars aren't
needed by default on my Linux system.

-Jon


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Re: [Kicad-developers] kicad compile error on FreeBSD

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 00:53, Maciej Suminski a écrit :
> I am sorry about that. I swear it would not have happened if I got a
> single warning message from the compiler, but both clang 4.0.0 and gcc
> 7.1.1 had merrily compiled the code, so I have not expected such
> problems. Thank you for quick reaction Jean-Pierre.
> 
> Regards,
> Orson
> 

I have a "old" Kubuntu install (Ubuntu/KDE 14.04, with gcc 4.8) that is very 
useful to detect such
issues.


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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Fix assert on GerbView launch

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 01:14, Jon Evans a écrit :
> Fixing a small bug in my recently-merged patch
> That'll teach me to try to do 3 things at once ;-)
> 

I forgot this fix, and commit my own fix, that is the same!

Unfortunately, not only it created an assert in Gerbview, but Gerbview crashed 
at start in release mode.

Well, that'll teach me to read more closely and remember some mails!


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Re: [Kicad-developers] [PATCH] Clear out old layer data when loading on top of an existing image

[jp charras]

Le 23/02/2018 à 01:34, Jon Evans a écrit :
> Fixes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1747443
> 
> -Jon
> 

Thanks.
I committed your fix.

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Re: [Kicad-developers] Hard coded hotkeys

[Nick Østergaard]

Where is the bug report? Please link it here. I guess you just forgot it.

2018-02-23 4:35 GMT+01:00 hauptmech :

> Jon Evans, Kristoffer Ödmark, John Beard, and maybe Tomasz Włostowski
>
> I filed a bug report for the temporary hard-coded hotkeys that have not
> been cleaned up. I'm super motivated to not have them in 5 so if you can't
> get to it let me know and I'll see if I can figure out how to do it.
>
> -hauptmech
>
>
>
>
>
>
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