KR> VW prop hub connection

[Mark Langford]

Those FAA accident reports are quite sobering, pointing the finger 
almost entirely at engine problems, inadequately prepared pilots, or 
just lack of attention to detail (and then there's the stupidity).

One that caught my attention (and doesn't fit any of the above 
descriptions) is this one regarding a departed propeller.

> The FAA inspector reported that the propeller is attached to a
> flange, which in turn is secured to the Volkswagen engine crankshaft
> by means of a bolt and cotter pin. The pin was found sheared and the
> bolt backed out. Evidence of full thread engagement at some time was
> noted on the bolt. The inspector stated that 5.7 hours of ground run
> and taxi tests had been completed by the pilot prior to this first
> flight.
>
> Probable Cause The failure of the propeller attach bolt retaining
> cotter pin, and the pilot/builder's inadequate preflight inspection
> of the aircraft prior to the attempted flight.

If this hub was anything like my GP hub setup, the determined cause is 
backwards...the hub slipped on the crank taper, and THEN the cotter pin 
sheared, not the other way around.  That little cotter pin couldn't 
possibly keep the hub from spinning on the crank, although somebody 
might think that it would.  That cotter pin is simply an indicator that 
the hub has slipped, and that the taper connection needs immediate 
attention.

Why would the hub slip?  It's as simple as an engine backfire.  When I 
was having problems with my Compufire ignition just before Chino, I 
didn't have enough spark to start the engine when the starter was 
running, but when the ignition was switched off, the coil field would 
collapse and a spark would fire on some cylinder that was charged and 
ready to go, and spin the engine  with a bang and a dramatic shock to 
the crank.

The prop/hub mass makes it reluctant to move, so the hub slips on the 
crank, unscrews the bolt, and shears the cotter pin in the process.  The 
cotter pin will shear right off with that kind of load applied to it. 
Next time the engine starts, the prop comes off, and if you're lucky, it 
lands on the ground nearby, rather than killing somebody or something. 
In my case, it just killed itself on the concrete...$400 down the drain, 
and killed the spinner as well.

I think that bolt should have left-hand threads, be larger diameter, and 
be torqued higher than the manual calls for...like Revmaster does their 
prop hub connection.

Yes, there is also a steel key between crank and hub, but the keyways 
are surprisingly shallow, the key is pretty thin, and it does not always 
offer enough resistance to keep the hub from simply "overriding" the 
key.  The key is also not designed to prevent rotation...it's just there 
to keep your timing mark in the same place every time you rebuild the 
engine.  And when you remove the hub (or it removes itself) and discover 
the key has fallen into the engine (because it was facing down when the 
hub was slid off), you get to tear the engine down to retrieve it!

The moral of this story is be super careful not to misfire the engine, 
and if you do, take a look at that cotter pin and ensure that it's not 
twisted or sheared.  Also, torque that bolt to the high end of the given 
range or higher, and secure it with Loctite 620 (although that still 
wasn't enough in my case).  I'm not trying to start an AD here, but am 
advising those with this hub connection to pay particularly close 
attention to detail during installation.  If you have a bunch of hours 
on it, it's probably going to take a lot of tons on the press to get it 
off, and would probably run without the bolt even installed!

Contrast this hub connection to what you get on even a stock Corvair 
crank...six high-strength 3/8" fine-threaded bolts (formerly holding the 
flywheel on) that practically guarantee the hub isn't going to slip or 
come off the airplane, and removing six bolts and the hub is easily 
removed.  It couldn't be much simpler or more trouble free...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> mia kr's

[Chris Prata]

speaking of which, I asked a while back about richard shirley's fast KR1, 
anyone know his planes current status?

> Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 18:46:58 -0500
 I've often wondered what happened to several KRs I've 
> seen in the past like Robert Muse's KR , the turbine KR seen at the 
> Perry, Oklahoma KR Gathering in the late 90's, and the retractable 
> gear KR owned by the Gathering host at Perry.

KR> Ray Allen trim

[codylee.cramer]

Thank you Larry!

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Larry Flesner via KRnet  Date: 5/12/16  7:52 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet  Cc: Larry Flesner  Subject: KR> Ray 
Allen trim 
At 05:41 PM 5/12/2016, you wrote:
>Can someone direct me to a thread about using the Ray Allen trim 
>systems on a kr2. I am new to figuring out this whole krnet thing.
>
+++

Here are 4000 words worth of thread.

Larry Flesner

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8615.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8613.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8612.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8611.JPG 


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KR> Ray Allen trim

[Larry Flesner]

At 05:41 PM 5/12/2016, you wrote:
>Can someone direct me to a thread about using the Ray Allen trim 
>systems on a kr2. I am new to figuring out this whole krnet thing.
>
+++

Here are 4000 words worth of thread.

Larry Flesner

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8615.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8613.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8612.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8611.JPG 

KR> KR crash reports

[Larry Flesner]

While discussing crashing / survivability I came across a document 
authored by the soft spoken Mark Langford. 
www.n56ml.com/KRaccidents.doc   Good read, lots of don't do this or 
you might hurt yourself info.

Lots of other good info available also if you google "faa accident 
report kr2".  I've often wondered what happened to several KRs I've 
seen in the past like Robert Muse's KR , the turbine KR seen at the 
Perry, Oklahoma KR Gathering in the late 90's, and the retractable 
gear KR owned by the Gathering host at Perry.

Larry Flesner 

KR> My two cents

[laser147 at juno.com]

I should add . . . re tailheavy KR's . . . my first KR was an original
canvas-seat standard KR with no mods so that's what I was basing my
comment on.  As nose gears got added and fuselages got lengthened (such
as with my current one 15 ft. 8.5 inches), the tail heaviness with two
people situation soon improved.  It sure was a good trainer for learning
how to fly with an excessively aft CG without killing myself.  That KR
education was very valuable with later bush flying where excessively aft
CG's were the norm.

Actually, 37751 had the Maloof prop, so it wasn't entirely original now
that I'm thinking about it.  Picture attached.

KooBuzz
15 Wildly Rich Celebs Who Were Once Homeless
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/573531d3f330d31d35318st02vuc
-- next part --
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KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[codylee.cramer]

Can someone direct me to a thread about using the Ray Allen trim systems on a 
kr2. I am new to figuring out this whole krnet thing.


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: John Martindale via KRnet  Date: 5/11/16  5:01 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 'KRnet'  Cc: John Martindale  Subject: 
Re: KR> Firewall Edge Finish 
Hi Sid

I just ran a bead of silastic around the top and sides before clamping the
steel and frax to the wall. I left the bottom open just in case something
needed to drain out. All good so far. How close are you to flight again?

John

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: 
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Sid Wood via
KRnet
Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2016 1:10 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: Sid Wood
Subject: KR> Firewall Edge Finish

What method would be used to finish the firewall edge of a stainless steel 
sheet to keep out water, oil, etc. from getting between the plywood and 
steel sheet, make a neat interface for the cowl and not add excessive 
weight?

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA




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KR> mia kr's

[Steve G.]

It is in my hangar undergoing a little TLC and then will be flying again 
shortly.

Steve Glover

Sent from my electronic leash. 

> On May 12, 2016, at 17:27, Chris Prata via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> speaking of which, I asked a while back about richard shirley's fast KR1, 
> anyone know his planes current status?
> 
>> Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 18:46:58 -0500
> I've often wondered what happened to several KRs I've 
>> seen in the past like Robert Muse's KR , the turbine KR seen at the 
>> Perry, Oklahoma KR Gathering in the late 90's, and the retractable 
>> gear KR owned by the Gathering host at Perry.
> 
> 
> ___
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> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options

KR> Phase I Flight Test Progress

[Sid Wood]

All mods are done.  W has empty weight at 780 pounds, CG at 7.13 inches. 
Condition inspection done.  Waiting for favorable weather: Have had 
measurable rain here every day for the past 16 days.  When it has not been 
raining, have had low ceilings or unacceptable cross winds.  Forecast for 
the next 4 days is more of same.  I am told that patients is a virtue; 
definitely working on my sainthood here.

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA
---

Hi Sid
I just ran a bead of silastic around the top and sides before clamping the
steel and frax to the wall. I left the bottom open just in case something
needed to drain out. All good so far. How close are you to flight again?
John

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

KR> My two cents/ parachutes

[Larry Flesner]

At 03:51 PM 5/12/2016, you wrote:
>A couple years ago there was a Japanese
>tourist wave riding over the Sierras that got clipped by a Hawker and
>only survived because he had a chute.  That and all the other stories of
>sailplanes colliding in thermals or suffering structural failure would
>prompt me to make a chute part of my equipment list if I flew sailplanes
+

I would agree with that logic.

  According to the FAA accident report : "The Hawker and the glider 
collided in flight at an altitude of about 16,000 feet above mean sea 
level-".  The pilot was extremely lucky he wasn't killed on impact or 
knocked unconscious and unable to exit the glider.  While the chute 
saved his life, some days your name just isn't on the list.

Larry Flesner 

KR> My two cents

[laser147 at juno.com]

Lots of discussion of parachutes lately with related subjects of
sailplanes, structural failures, flying over solid cloud decks, etc.  

Various thoughts:

KR's tend to be "tail heavy" from the factory.  As fuel is consumed this
feature gets even worse.   The KR-2 with two people in it is ridiculously
tail heavy unless corrections were made during construction to counter
that aspect.  Spinning any airplane with excessive rear CG makes it
pretty much impossible to break an established spin.  Put that together
with the short-coupled design and we've got planes that we really ought
not to spin.  

*

Gliders are fragile things.  A couple years ago there was a Japanese
tourist wave riding over the Sierras that got clipped by a Hawker and
only survived because he had a chute.  That and all the other stories of
sailplanes colliding in thermals or suffering structural failure would
prompt me to make a chute part of my equipment list if I flew sailplanes.




Jumping out of a plane because you're caught above a cloud deck?  Holy
crap people . . . are we pilots or passengers?

Actually, to answer my own question, in many cases we KR pilots (and
other Experimental builders as well) are builders first and pilots
second.  Some guys just love building.  The flying part of things is
actually a secondary consideration for some.  For the latter, put a
simple wing leveler servo under the seat and buy something that gives you
synthetic vision - the new Area 660 by Garmin is surprisingly (for
Garmin) inexpensive and will allow you to fly yourself visually right
through anything to the nearest runway.  You don't need to even look
outside except to land.  These planes are too capable and too much fun
for their pilots to have to worry about it getting dark outside or
getting caught over clouds.  We need to be comfortable with winds,
clouds, darkness and all that the sky has to offer.  Hail is another
matter - gotta stay away from ice and hail but except for those two
things we really ought to be at home up there.  Surfing scares me a lot
more than anything I've ever experienced in the air.  I'm a real weenie
when it comes to water.  Thank goodness the KR is a real floater.  There
was a priest in the early days who went down in a KR over the ocean,
quite a ways off shore.  Rhode Island I think.  After hitting the water
he floated all the way to land.  Took a long time, but the KR didn't
sink.  If he had jumped out with a parachute he would have drowned! 
Having a parachute would have killed that priest and ended all his good
works.  So.  

Mike
KSEE


Better Finances
New Rule In Local Area
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5734ed27c02676d271206st02vuc

KR> Lets try that again...

[Robert Pesak]

Dan, 1 o'clock Monday will be fine thank you


Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S? 5, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Larry Flesner via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 05/12/2016  9:01 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KRnet  
Cc: Larry Flesner  
Subject: Re: KR> Lets try that again... 


How ironic that the very next e-mail I received 
after my post was the following:

Larry Flesner
+++
You can solve them.

How?

By entering your design, concept, or idea into 
the EAA Founder?s Innovation Prize challenge.

The 2016 
Founder's 
Innovation Prize is a contest to help solve the 
problem of fatal loss-of-control accidents in amateur-built aircraft.
Five final individuals or teams will get the 
chance to present their submissions to a panel of 
esteemed judges ? live at AirVenture!

The grand prize winner will receive $25,000.

Are you, yes YOU, ready to make a difference?


Submit Your Idea
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KR> Lets try that again...

[JAMES DUFF]

This is the P51 low-altitude bailout I previously mentioned and which Colin 
also described.
https://youtu.be/xctYWSuwoYA
I'm not sure how robust the weight argument against a parachute is against a 
context of many builders having already reconciled a near 50% increase in empty 
weight for their KR2 over design by adding gadgets, bigger engines etc. 10lbs 
for a parachute is nothing. As Colin says, it's personal choice but I'd sooner 
have it and hopefully never need it than have time to contemplate going in hard 
with an aircraft I'd rather have abandoned.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Thu, 12 May, 2016 at 4:33, colin hales via KRnet 
wrote:   As I said, I
read what is written and mostly stay stub. That is until I read something that I
know myself is 100% factually incorrect and that might effect the decision of
someone trying to make a very personal choice. Then I just think it not proper
or correct that miss information is bantered around. I feel a need to put
things right. Therefore, if full
details are not known about the topic with 100% confidence, then you shouldn't
really say anything especially when safety matters and personal losses are
involved.



Gentlemen,? let us all agree that you
don?t have to look far before you read of many KR2 in flight failures. 



NTSB Identification: WPR11FA155? quote : The rapid
descent was probably initiated by the separation of about half of the vertical
stabilizer as a result of severe turbulence while the airplane was near the
location of the final radar return. The departure of a portion of the vertical
stabilizer and pieces of the rudder would have resulted in the pilot?s inability
to control the airplane, followed by a rapid descent and subsequent in-flight
breakup.



KR2 G-BOLZ in
the UK, broke up in the air, admittedly after a mid air
collision that killed three of my friends.



But these are
extreme cases.? Anyway it doesn?t need to
be an inflight break up that causes you to want to get out and pull a string.



We all know
that the last reported radio transmissions from Ken Rand were, 



 At 3:45 Ken reported he was icing -- at 8,000 feet. At 3:53 the last 
transmission was received:
"I'm at three thousand and I'm going to hit!"



Another Kr pilot
carried out this unwise manoeuvres detailed below, 



 the
pilot initiated an intentional spin, throttling the engine to idle, pulling on
the carburetor heat, and increasing the nose up attitude of the airplane until
it stalled and entered a spin to the left. During the first few rotations the
engine quit, and the propeller stopped turning. After several rotations the
spin stabilized about 20 degrees nose down, and remained in the steady state
until impact. During the descent the pilot was observed attempting various
control inputs without effect.



A canopy latch
coming undone, is enough to open a sideways hinging canopy and have it detach
in flight. With the disturbed airflow over the tailplane, it makes the aircraft
very difficult to control.



So it does not
need to be structural failure of our beloved planes that makes one need to
think a little more. Had these four pilots been wearing a parachute, what would
have been the outcome and their actions? The structural integrity of the KR2 is
not in doubt, but sometimes, certain factors negate this. But lets all agree not
to say there have never been any known in flight failures of any kind, as its
just not true.



I come from a
gliding back ground. I have worn a parachute through all of my flying of
gliders, therefore I am biased. it is compulsory in some clubs to wear chutes, 
due to the close proximity to other
gliders in thermaling flight. I?d never be without one personally after seeing 
three mid airs when racing gliders. But lets try
and keep this to facts and nothing personal. There are on average 30 mid air
collisions a year throughout Europe. Not everyone needs to get out, next to no 
glider pilots are
professional sky divers yet the success rate for getting out is very very high. 
Different
countries quote different figures.



An ?air
experience? member of the public who had never flown a glider before was taking
a flight in a K21 glider in England in 2009. The glider was hit by
lightning and the rapid increase in temperature of the air within the wings
blew them apart and the melting of the control tubes meant that staying in the
glider was no longer a viable option. The paying passenger hadn?t even been
shown how to use the parachute, just how to open the cockpit and undo his
straps. He worked it all out and landed uninjured. The pilot in the back 
sprained his ankle. Our BBC
made a documentary about it.



Glider pilots
in Europe are taught that if you can not get out
of the aircraft because of high wind forces keeping you in or the glider is 
spinning or out of control or your legs are
trapped in the straps, or under the instrument panel, just lean forward or try 
to
stand up and simply pull the cord. On many designs, this 

KR> BRS can be a concern.

[Phillip Matheson]

Please follow the fitting instructions of the shute.
I have recently seen  one that had the unit mounted to the firewall, and 
attached  to the 4 engine mount attachments points. My (2 cents only only), 
but at what speed would this only tear out the firewall and save the engine 
only? and if it worked, the KR would descend tail first??? The instructions 
clearly say the aircraft should impact on its wheels to reduce the landing 
force, and attached to the spars for safety.

Also is has to blast through a layer of fibre glass of the top cowl. Again 
what could a rocket do when discharged under the cowl, and unable to get out 
to open, and again, what would it do to the firewall attachment? 
Instructions say it should blast through a fabric cover that is detachable 
from the rest of the material.

Thankfully, This aircraft can no longer endanger anyone, it was taken off 
the register.

Phil

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KR> Lets try that again...

[Larry Flesner]

How ironic that the very next e-mail I received 
after my post was the following:

Larry Flesner
+++
You can solve them.

How?

By entering your design, concept, or idea into 
the EAA Founder?s Innovation Prize challenge.

The 2016 
Founder's 
Innovation Prize is a contest to help solve the 
problem of fatal loss-of-control accidents in amateur-built aircraft.
Five final individuals or teams will get the 
chance to present their submissions to a panel of 
esteemed judges ? live at AirVenture!

The grand prize winner will receive $25,000.

Are you, yes YOU, ready to make a difference?


Submit Your Idea

KR> Lets try that again...

[Larry Flesner]

At 10:31 PM 5/11/2016, you wrote:
>   That is 60 feet for a paraglider
>chute and 400 ft for a normal emergency chute operated by a complete novice,
>not the staggering 4,000 ft that was quoted. The chutes we use hear 
>at the gliding club are 12 lb and they indeed have a rated
>minimum deployment altitude of 400ft.
+

I don't recall anyone making that statement, certainly not me.  My 
statement was "I would suggest that anything happening to warrant an 
exit would have to happen at or above 3000 feet if you were to have 
any chance of a clean exit, stabilize and pull the rip cord, and get 
a good canopy".  To use the example of the Mustang pilot surviving a 
low altitude bailout and suggesting any or all low altitude bailouts 
are survivable gives one a false sense of security.  It took the 
Mustang pilot 17 seconds after impact to even exit the aircraft.  The 
reason he even had 17 seconds was the aircraft maintained stable 
horizontal flight after the impact and he had horizontal speed to 
help deploy the chute.  Had the aircraft gone in to uncontrollable 
flight the probabilities are he would be a dead man.  Having to 
depart the aircraft at low altitude and getting those ideal 
conditions is going to be very rare. The other examples given give no 
indication of how high the aircraft were when the need arose to 
exit.  The human body will reach terminal velocity of 176 feet per 
second in the first 4 or 5 seconds of free fall and that is in a 
stabilized arch position.  Tumbling, head first, feet first will 
increase the decent rate.  That translate to 5.5 seconds for every 
1000 feet of altitude.  You decide your minimum exit altitude.

While it may be standard training at some glider fields to deploy the 
chute while in the cockpit, that has to be one of those "hell, I'm 
going to die anyway" decisions and should not be considered to be a 
viable option.  Before the door on a jump plane is opened at altitude 
there is an "equipment check".  If all chutes are not securely in the 
pack, the door is never opened and the entire load rides back down 
with the pilot.  Jumpers have been known to exit through the side of 
an aircraft when their pack opened in the aircraft, the canopy sucked 
out the door, and the lines slicing thought the thin metal of the 
aircraft skin.  The jump master at the local drop zone once had his 
chute open outside the aircraft while still on the step.  He was very 
lucky that the chute did not hang up on the tail assembly but when it 
pulled him off the step he went up side down under the horizontal 
stabilizer and his shin hit the lead edge, tearing the horizontal 
stab loose and giving him a huge lump on his leg.  He was fortunate 
that both he and the aircraft survived.

While wearing a chute might someday save your life, don't let it lull 
you in to making questionable decisions that put you in a situation 
where you need it, thinking you'll just bail if things don't work 
out.  It should only be used in a "I'm going to die anyway" moment.

Colin's type of long distance flying probably makes his wearing a 
chute a good decision but that's not the typical realm of the average KR.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Firewall Edge Finish

[John Martindale]

Hi Sid

I just ran a bead of silastic around the top and sides before clamping the
steel and frax to the wall. I left the bottom open just in case something
needed to drain out. All good so far. How close are you to flight again?

John

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: 
-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Sid Wood via
KRnet
Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2016 1:10 AM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: Sid Wood
Subject: KR> Firewall Edge Finish

What method would be used to finish the firewall edge of a stainless steel 
sheet to keep out water, oil, etc. from getting between the plywood and 
steel sheet, make a neat interface for the cowl and not add excessive 
weight?

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA




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KR> parachutes

[Gary Hinkle]

Very well stated. Stay with the plane. Fires don't burn for more than seconds. 
Fuel should be turned off.?Engine failure is the most likely item. Other than 
IFR screwups, engines stopping is what brings them down. Not fires.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Mark Langford via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 05/10/2016  22:22  (GMT-05:00) 
To: KRnet  
Cc: Mark Langford  
Subject: KR> parachutes 

Regarding parachutes, it's worth mentioning that there's never been an 
inflight structural failure of a KR (the all-composite one at high speed 
at the Gathering doesn't count, in my mind), although there is a 
question of elevator bellcrank failure in one plane, but it's possible 
it was crash induced.? There may be others, but no spar or fuselage 
failure that I know of.

So given that record and the many thousands of KR hours logged, what are 
the chances that you're going to have to go down somewhere so 
inhospitable that you can do some semblance of a landing somewhere? 
Even if it's in the tree tops, you'll likely survive it.? So assuming 
you are still in control of a plane that's capable of gliding, I'd just 
stall it in the tree tops somewhere.? John Schaffer did that in a flat 
spin from 8000', and survived.

And how much time do you spend over that kind of terrain in Missouri 
anyway?? Your chances are looking better already!? Jeff Scott probably 
doesn't like what he sees out the window 75% of the time, but he doesn't 
wear a parachute.

Jumping out of a spinning or otherwise disabled plane is not without its 
risks as well...perhaps higher than sticking with the plane to put it on 
the ground somewhere.? You could get whacked in the head by the 
horizontal stabilizer, or your parachute might be a streamer, etc.? And 
what if your plane crashes into a house and kills a family eating lunch? 
? That'd be bad.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you are so concerned about a 
structural or control failure, you should probably start thinking twin 
engines and lot of other redundancy.? Statistics are on your side 
though...if your plane goes down, it'll likely be a fuel problem or a 
broken crankshaft, and then you simply land in a field or on a road.? At 
least that way you still have a plane that you can rebuild or scavenge 
for parts, or just maybe, it won't have a scratch on it!? No need to 
carry 20 pounds around for years expecting it to pay off someday, when 
it likely won't.

I have about 1400 hours of KR time, and I've had plenty of engine 
problems, and zero structural problems.? With the plane 20 pounds 
lighter, and the comfort of not being packed into my seat with a 
parachute, I've had some pretty smooth and enjoyable flying so far.

And yes, I do know that the second engine is just there to get you to 
the scene of the crash...

-- 
Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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KR> fibre frax

[Gary Hinkle]

Since when have chutes been mandatory? ?I got my Commercial Glider rating in 
the 80s and never heard of that.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Chris Kinnaman via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 05/10/2016  10:43  (GMT-05:00) 
To: KRnet  
Cc: Chris Kinnaman  
Subject: Re: KR> fibre frax 

Ask around amongst glider pilots which chute they would recommend for 
comfort. Chutes are mandatory for flying gliders. If you can find a few 
glider pilots close to your size, ask if you can try on their chutes to 
see how mobile you can be while wearing it.

Chris K

On 5/9/2016 11:34 PM, Chris Prata via KRnet wrote:
> like I said? "make fun of me all u want..."
>
> but the chute is a couple extra inches on my back and will be the rear 
> cushion, planning on moving the seat back rearward the 2 inches I need. In 
> fact, the thing fiberglass seat in my avid was so comfortable, I once flew 
> for almost 12 hours (2 quick fuel turns) with zero soreness. I saved that 
> seat and plan to use it in the avid. moved rearward with only the bottom 
> upholstery, unless the geometry wont work.? there was also almost no legroom 
> in the avid, you fly with knees bent, which was also not a problem.
> not to mention lets face it, climbing out of a single place with chute on has 
> a certain coolness factor. at my increasing age I can use all of that I can 
> get!
> at this point of course this is all talk. the avid is not fully sold yet and 
> on the the kr project, I have only bought the plans from nvaero so far. 
> hoping to go forward and accumulate skins, canopy, etc etc nd of course the 
> wood fairly soon.
>
>


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KR> Lets try that again...

[colin hales]

As I said, I
read what is written and mostly stay stub. That is until I read something that I
know myself is 100% factually incorrect and that might effect the decision of
someone trying to make a very personal choice. Then I just think it not proper
or correct that miss information is bantered around. I feel a need to put
things right. Therefore, if full
details are not known about the topic with 100% confidence, then you shouldn't
really say anything especially when safety matters and personal losses are
involved.



Gentlemen,  let us all agree that you
don?t have to look far before you read of many KR2 in flight failures. 



NTSB Identification: WPR11FA155   quote : The rapid
descent was probably initiated by the separation of about half of the vertical
stabilizer as a result of severe turbulence while the airplane was near the
location of the final radar return. The departure of a portion of the vertical
stabilizer and pieces of the rudder would have resulted in the pilot?s inability
to control the airplane, followed by a rapid descent and subsequent in-flight
breakup.



KR2 G-BOLZ in
the UK, broke up in the air, admittedly after a mid air
collision that killed three of my friends.



But these are
extreme cases.  Anyway it doesn?t need to
be an inflight break up that causes you to want to get out and pull a string.



We all know
that the last reported radio transmissions from Ken Rand were, 



 At 3:45 Ken reported he was icing -- at 8,000 feet. At 3:53 the last 
transmission was received:
"I'm at three thousand and I'm going to hit!"



Another Kr pilot
carried out this unwise manoeuvres detailed below, 



 the
pilot initiated an intentional spin, throttling the engine to idle, pulling on
the carburetor heat, and increasing the nose up attitude of the airplane until
it stalled and entered a spin to the left. During the first few rotations the
engine quit, and the propeller stopped turning. After several rotations the
spin stabilized about 20 degrees nose down, and remained in the steady state
until impact. During the descent the pilot was observed attempting various
control inputs without effect.



A canopy latch
coming undone, is enough to open a sideways hinging canopy and have it detach
in flight. With the disturbed airflow over the tailplane, it makes the aircraft
very difficult to control.



So it does not
need to be structural failure of our beloved planes that makes one need to
think a little more. Had these four pilots been wearing a parachute, what would
have been the outcome and their actions? The structural integrity of the KR2 is
not in doubt, but sometimes, certain factors negate this. But lets all agree not
to say there have never been any known in flight failures of any kind, as its
just not true.



I come from a
gliding back ground. I have worn a parachute through all of my flying of
gliders, therefore I am biased. it is compulsory in some clubs to wear chutes, 
due to the close proximity to other
gliders in thermaling flight. I?d never be without one personally after seeing 
three mid airs when racing gliders. But lets try
and keep this to facts and nothing personal. There are on average 30 mid air
collisions a year throughout Europe. Not everyone needs to get out, next to no 
glider pilots are
professional sky divers yet the success rate for getting out is very very high. 
Different
countries quote different figures.



An ?air
experience? member of the public who had never flown a glider before was taking
a flight in a K21 glider in England in 2009. The glider was hit by
lightning and the rapid increase in temperature of the air within the wings
blew them apart and the melting of the control tubes meant that staying in the
glider was no longer a viable option. The paying passenger hadn?t even been
shown how to use the parachute, just how to open the cockpit and undo his
straps. He worked it all out and landed uninjured. The pilot in the back 
sprained his ankle. Our BBC
made a documentary about it.



Glider pilots
in Europe are taught that if you can not get out
of the aircraft because of high wind forces keeping you in or the glider is 
spinning or out of control or your legs are
trapped in the straps, or under the instrument panel, just lean forward or try 
to
stand up and simply pull the cord. On many designs, this fires out on a spring 
the primary chute that pulls out the main chute and the chute will inflate and 
pull you out
rapidly whether you are ready or not. The lowest known recorded height a glider 
emergency chute was open was 400ft. He
survived. Parargliders have emergency chutes on board that will deploy in
60ft.  That is 60 feet for a paraglider
chute and 400 ft for a normal emergency chute operated by a complete novice,
not the staggering 4,000 ft that was quoted. The chutes we use hear at the 
gliding club are 12 lb and they indeed have a rated
minimum deployment altitude of 400ft. The guy getting out of the struck P51
mustang in England last year after