Re: [lace] Spulfix bobbin winder for counter-clockwise winding

[Gabriele Patzner]

>  J Reardon  wrote:
> 
> If you don’t mind my asking, why is it important to wind the bobbins in a 
> particular direction for Idrija? (I know I probably spelled that wrong.)

Yes please, I would like to know that, too.
I was under the impression that bobbins were wound according to the twist auf 
the thread, S or Z - and that even that would not matter if you wind it on 
(turn the bobbin) rather than wrap it around (twist the thread around the 
bobbin).

Gabriele

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[lace] Block pillow question

[Jane Partridge]

I still don't see why you think half blocks are purely spacers, Malvary. This
is the first time in over 25 years of making lace I have heard of this. I have
several half blocks, and use them as and when needed, especially when working
things like bookmarks, which tend to be 1.5 blocks in length. There is usually
no problem with having about a quarter of a block overhang (temporarily) at
the top of the pillow, or a similar gap at the bottom, so that you can work
comfortably in the centre.


Jane Partridge




Malvary

> The half blocks are purely spacers, if you work on them then they aren't
available when you need to move your work only a little.  Why wouldn't you
work on a full block to be able to turn a corner?

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RE: [lace] date for Bucks point

[DevonThein]

I saw the question.
A year or two ago the Met had a Vigee LeBrun exhibit. She was the artist who
painted the French aristocracy right up to the Revolution and even beyond, as
she also fled. I thought it would be interesting to have a viewing of lace
such as in the paintings. Most of it was Alencon, though. I do recall a piece
that was bobbin lace and I recall thinking that it looked like a good
candidate to be done in point ground, because it was largely mesh with only
tiny motifs around the edge, but, it was actually Valenciennes.
I went looking for the pictures, but I can’t find them.
However, the lace at that time was all this tiny motifs and edges. I have a
lace collection that includes samples purchased over the years, dated by
knowledgeable dealers and collectors. So, I just had a look through them.
Incredibly most of the tiny motif lace that I have is Mechlin, although you
don’t know it unless you look at it with strong magnification. However I
have found one piece that is point ground. A previous dealer has written Lille
1760-1790 on it.
I suppose it is possible that it is Empire style. It has some suspicious
looking leaves on it, sort of like laural.. Do you want me to share a photo,
possibly on Ning?
Devon

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Re: [lace] Winding Idrija bobbins for use "palms up" on a bolster

[Karen ZM]

In Malta and Gozo we wind clockwise and work palms down.

Karen in Malta.

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[lace] Re: hint

[Jane]

Hi, I feel I should post a warning.

Small elastic bands work very well to keep two bobbins together.

But, I'm a slow worker and my large Bucks Point piece took a year to 
make. During that time the rubber bands perished and stuck to the wood 
leaving blue or black coloured rings on the bobbin shanks.


I found safety pins through the spangles worked much better for me - 
obviously a useless suggestion for continentals!


Maybe if you're a fast worker or in a different climate its not a 
problem, but just thought I should mention it.


Best wishes,
Jane
from a cold muddy New Forest

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[lace] Smithsonian Ipswich lace pillow

[Karen Thompson]

Dear Janice, Lorri and others,
Thank you for all the interest. Hopefully this thread will help shed more
light on a very important part of American handmade lace history.

Janice writes: "One thing I did notice though was that the Smithsonian lace
had a left footside whereas most English lace to my knowledge have a right
hand footside.  Maybe Karen can explain why the change of side if the lady
who produced the lace originally came from England
​."

Elizabeth Lord Lakeman was born in Ipswich​, MA in 1767 and moved to
Hallowell, Maine upon marriage. She worked one of the original Ipswich lace
patterns as a young woman living in Ipswich, MA. It is now in the
Smithsonian collection, where you can see it at:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_645070
​
or

as the last object
​ ​
by searching Smithsonian lace collection
​.​
 It corresponds to one of the samples from 1789-1790 at the Library of
Congress
​ (number 9)​
.  Later in her life she made the white point ground lace
​ that is​
left on her Ipswich pillow when she died at the age of 94.
​
At this point we do not know where the first lace teacher in Ipswich, MA
came from or when, but since about 600 lace makers made lace in Ipswich, MA
in 1790, lacem​aking had been practiced
there
​ ​
for a long time. Most likely the original teacher came from the
​c
ontinent or the Downton area as the footside is on the left.
​
Lorri writes:
"
If the bolster was situated opposite of the photo, wouldn't the foot side be
​
on the right.
​"​
 The bobbins are no longer attached, but the direction is still clear from
the finished lace in the back and the broken threads from the bobbins in
the front of the pins. This and all the Ipswich, MA samples have the
footside at the left.

Karen - in sunny and cold Delaware, USA ​
 ​

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Re: [lace] Block pillow question

[Malvary Cole]

I stand corrected - if you need to use your half blocks to work on, so be 
it.


On the other hand, if you have a block pillow in a frame, you cannot 
overhang a part of a block even temporarily, and having a space at the 
bottom with no block in it does not give very good support for your bobbins.


I understand the use of the half block if you are turning a corner, but 
don't see the need for a half block usage if you are making a book mark 
which is 1.5 blocks in length - why not just use 2 blocks.


If you constantly use your half block to work on, the foam will break down 
more because you can't rotate it like you can with a full block.


Malvary

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[lace] date for Bucks point

[Alex Stillwell]

Hi Arachnids

I saw the posting requesting information about the date point ground started
and have been waiting to see the response. Unfortunately there has net been
even one, I was hoping someone else would come up with something as I have
found no reference that actually gives a date and I am not an historian. It
appears to have developed in response to a change in fashion at the end of the
18th century and start of the 19th century and into the Jane Austen era. The
French Revolution 1789 terminated much lacemaking in France and here the
aristocracy became twitchy in case it was catching and so less lace was worn
and when it became fashionable again the style changed.

I do not have sensitive toes and would welcome comments any one with greater
historical knowledge.

Blow the dust

Alex

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Re: [lace] Winding Idrija bobbins for use "plams up" on a bolster

[AGlez]

This is an interesting question! In Spain we also wind counterclockwise.
And we work mainly palms up. I don't know if lacemakers who work palms down
wind clockwise. Would love to read your opinions!!

Now my opinion: I imagine that it is not important which way you wind, but
wind all bobbins the same, because it makes your work easier. If every
bobbin is wound differently, you can get mad when you have to enlarge or
reduce the length of the thread while working.

As a teacher, it is also interesting that all pupils wind the same, so that
you are comfortable and quick when you have to help them with their bobbins.

Have a nice week!

Greetings from Spain.


Antje González
www.vueltaycruz.es

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Re: [lace] Winding Idrija bobbins for use "plams up" on a bolster

[The Lace Bee]

I wind counterclockwise as I was taught that way due to the spinning on the 
thread.  I do this for which ever lace I make and which ever pillow I use.

L

Sent from my iPad

> On 11 Dec 2017, at 09:51, AGlez  wrote:
> 
> This is an interesting question! In Spain we also wind counterclockwise.
> And we work mainly palms up. I don't know if lacemakers who work palms down
> wind clockwise. Would love to read your opinions!!

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Re: [lace] Re: Block pillow question

[Joseph Young]

I only use the hot-wire outside, preferably on a windy day as it makes the foam 
cut straighter. The foam I use is called XPS, it does not bead and let off 
little pearls like most foam, and it can easily be cut with a stanley knife, 
but I use the hot wire purely because of my hand tremors. Much easier to push 
it through the wire straight rather than with a knife.  The foam is $12 for a 
huge piece, probably make 3 pillows from it.  I whip up cotton covers in 
unbleached calico, overlock the squares then dye them with RIT dye to a nice 
shade of mottled blue.  The hotwire is really simple, just an old machine 
knitting table with a hole drilled in the centre, and an L square attached to 
hold the wire. I power it with a dimmer, old PC power supply and a foot pedal.  
Grandad has also successfully cut the foam with the scroll saw (that i am not 
allowed to go near with a barge pole).

I have started using a piece of yoga mat on top of my blocks now, as the pins 
grab in it better than felt, and it kind of becomes self healing. Half blocks 
and quarter blocks seem to be on the agenda now. I cannot stand a cookie pillow 
as I HATE to move up my work. That is a sure fire way for me to stuff it up!


Joseph – be careful to use the hot wire in a well-ventilated space as the 
gases that come off from the cutting are not good for you

Sue




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[lace] Winding Idrija bobbins

[Susan]

For Jean & others—when using an Idrija bolster pillow, the bobbins are wound 
counter clockwise.  Also, be sure to wind them nearly full, even if you need to 
use scrap thread first, then wind over it with your Idrija thread.  As to a 
bobbin winder for Idrija bobbins, check with Allie Marguccio.  The one she uses 
is quite large but I don’t know the brand.  It may have come from a weaving 
supply company.  She teaches this lace at various events, IOLIO, Ithaca etc.  
I’ve taken several classes from her & she really goes over the special little 
tips you need to make this lace.  Her husband turns beautiful Idrija bobbins, 
makes the bolster pillows & stands & sells the threads, authentic Idrija 
patterns & findings to make fun stuff.  Satisfied student & customer!  Hope 
this helps.  Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA  

Sent from my iPad

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RE: [lace] Block pillow question

[J-D Hammett]

Hi,

I am with Annelore here. If you work over the half block to place your corner
in the right place you are still using it as a spacer, not just to keep your
lace at the right distance from you, but also to work the lace in the right
position over the spacer. I have even got full width but only quarter length
blocks (12” x 3”) for my large 12” (32 cm) blocks pillow to move the lace only
a little OR to work over it to place the next corner in the right place on the
12 x 12” block for turning. Very useful as corners are seldom exactly where
you’d like them to be.

Joepie, East Sussex where the weather is foul!

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Re: [lace] Block pillow question

[Brenda Paternoster]

>
> I still don't see why you think half blocks are purely spacers,

Another reason for using half and quarter blocks is to get a corner entirely
on a full block.  The wider the edging the bigger the corner will be and the
more difficult it can be to get it positioned entirely on a block.  The full
width of the pricking has to go onto the block and it has to come off again
without any overlap.

Brenda in Allhallows

paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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RE: [lace] Re: hint

[J-D Hammett]

Hi,

You are so right Jane,


  1.  I would NEVER use elastic bands on my bobbins or other wooden objects
(bad experience many years ago). It seems that the rubber and wood react
together and the rubber rots even quicker. Tie a piece of thread around the
bobbins to be marked (with a loop knot for quick removal). This can be used on
continentals as well. If safety pins are used make sure they are stainless or
you might get rust marks.


  1.  Nor should one leave brass pins in a pillow for too long -especially not
in one of the old fashioned straw pillows. You may end up with tiny rings of
verdigris in your lace (another bad experience).


  1.  Lastly, If you are using a photocopied pattern, don’t get is wet as many
of the inks are water soluble and can leach into the lace. It takes a lot of
time, many cotton buds and lots of demineralised water to get it out again.


All the best,

Joepie


From: Jane

Hi, I feel I should post a warning.

Small elastic bands work very well to keep two bobbins together.

But, I'm a slow worker and my large Bucks Point piece took a year to
make. During that time the rubber bands perished and stuck to the wood
leaving blue or black coloured rings on the bobbin shanks.

I found safety pins through the spangles worked much better for me -
obviously a useless suggestion for continentals!

Maybe if you're a fast worker or in a different climate its not a
problem, but just thought I should mention it.

Best wishes,
Jane

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Re: [lace] Re: hint

[Marianne Gallant]

First, the elastics don't hold bobbins together, they are just put on 
the bottom of each bobbin as a marker. And these ones just fall apart 
when getting old, they don't 'melt' (I don't know what they are made of, 
not rubber or anything like that, and they don't seem to last very 
long). And it would be very difficult to put safety pins on continental 
bobbins, since they don't have spangles. Plus, with Binche or Flanders 
they would get moved to other bobbins very frequently, and if I would 
put it aside for any length of time I would probably remove the elastics.
I don't know of any other way to mark them, I guess I could tie string 
on the bobbins, but that would be a lot of work, and really slow me down 
way too much, considering how often they change in Binche


*Marianne*

Marianne Gallant
Vernon, BC Canada
m...@shaw.ca
http://threadsnminis.blogspot.ca, https://www.facebook.com/GallantCreation/

On 2017-12-11 4:41 AM, Jane wrote:
> Hi, I feel I should post a warning.
>
> Small elastic bands work very well to keep two bobbins together.
>
> But, I'm a slow worker and my large Bucks Point piece took a year to 
> make. During that time the rubber bands perished and stuck to the wood 
> leaving blue or black coloured rings on the bobbin shanks.
>
> I found safety pins through the spangles worked much better for me - 
> obviously a useless suggestion for continentals!
>
> Maybe if you're a fast worker or in a different climate its not a 
> problem, but just thought I should mention it.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jane
> from a cold muddy New Forest
>
> -
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> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>

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Re: [lace] date for Bucks point

[Adele Shaak]

Hi Alex:

I tried to find an answer, too, but like you I had little luck. The French book 
“Dentelles Normandes: La Blonde de Caen” is a history book and has a lot of 
information about Blonde lace, but the emphasis is on business, not on 
technique, though there are a few places where they mention the grounds. What I 
found interesting was that when most of us read of Blonde lace, we tend to 
think of a point ground - ie, C-T-T-T ground lace, but that seems to be an 
error - from this book I learned that blonde lace can have any of several 
different grounds, including the ones that we see in the Ipswich lace book; 
Paris ground and a closed-pinned Alencon ground. This book has one or two 
photos of laces, labelled as 18th century, that do seem to have point ground - 
but they don’t say exactly when in the 18th century the laces were made (it 
could have been 1799, for example) and without a clear closeup I can’t say for 
sure that the laces do have point ground.

The other information I was able to find regards the history of Lille lace - 
“Leibenauer Point de Lille-Spitzen” by Mariet Haarmann and Erdmute Wesenberg. 
Lille lace uses point ground, and in the history section of that book they 
mention the rise of the industry coming at the beginning of the 19th century. 

Both books describe the difficulties resulting from the first machine was made 
to create a plain tulle net (1768), which used the C-T-T-T form. Embroidering 
machine-made tulle was much easier and faster than making lace from scratch, 
and the traditional laces suffered as a result. 

The “Lille” book starts at the beginning of the 19th century; apparently the 
price of linen rose by about 30% in 1803 and the book says that is why the 
lacemakers at Lille began using the C-T-T-T ground (called “fond clair” or 
“Point de Lille”). The do mention that “fond clair” had been used earlier, to 
make blonde and Chantilly lace. However, once again, they don’t give any dates.

So, gathering this all together, it seems to me that what we call Point Ground 
was used in the 18th century to make blonde and chantilly lace, but it was just 
one of several different grounds that could be used to make blonde lace. (I 
don’t know about Chantilly). In the later years of the 18th century the demand 
for lace decreased with the rise of machine-made nets and the used of tulle and 
of gauze fabrics as a base for embroidered laces. In the early 1800s the price 
of linen thread also rose substantially and so it was more economical and 
faster to make point ground than the older grounds. At this point the Lille 
lace industry began, point ground lace became very fashionable, and over the 
next 50 years this type of lace spread to Beveren (Belgium), Buckinghamshire, 
Denmark, Switzerland, and several other countries. 

Best I can do. Now to get my day started.

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada)

> I saw the posting requesting information about the date point ground started
> and have been waiting to see the response. Unfortunately there has net been
> even one, I was hoping someone else would come up with something as I have
> found no reference that actually gives a date and I am not an historian. It
> appears to have developed in response to a change in fashion at the end of the
> 18th century and start of the 19th century and into the Jane Austen era. The
> French Revolution 1789 terminated much lacemaking in France and here the
> aristocracy became twitchy in case it was catching and so less lace was worn
> and when it became fashionable again the style changed.
> 
> I do not have sensitive toes and would welcome comments any one with greater
> historical knowledge.
> 
> Blow the dust
> 
> Alex

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[lace] Elastic bands

[Sally Jenkins]

Jane and Jopie have both written of problems in using elastic or other
rubber bands on their bobbins.

Jane wrote:

warning. Small elastic bands work very well to keep two bobbins
together. But, I'm a slow worker and my large Bucks Point piece took a year
tomake. During that time the rubber bands perished and stuck to the woodleaving
blue or black coloured rings on the bobbin shanks.

 From Joepie

 . . . rubber and wood react together and the rubber rots even quicker. Tie
a piece of thread around the bobbins to be marked (with a loop knot for
quick removal). This can be used on continentals as well.

I have used orthodontic rubber bands for years, with no problems. I think
they are made from some substance other than rubber, so any chemical
reaction would be different than what Jane and Joepie have experienced.

In addition to binding two bobbins together, what I mainly use them for is
to mark my worker pair(s) or some other pair I need to keep track of.  They
last forever, and come in different colors. Although I got mine from an
orthodontist, I think I have seen them listed on Amazon.com too.

Not sure about using them on spangled bobbins, however - I use
International or Square bobbins.

My two cents,

Sally

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Re: [lace] hint

[Adele Shaak]

> that would be a lot of work, and really slow me down
> way too much, considering how often they change in Binche

I tried the elastic thing once and once only! My problem was that stopping -
at all - irritates me. Plus, at times I merrily laced away without remembering
the elastics were on the bobbins (I don’t look at the bobbins as I work; I
look at the threads) and by the time I found the marked bobbins they had left
the motif anyway, and I realized the technique simply wasn’t helping me. It
wasn’t long, though, before I had made enough lace that I didn’t have ring
pair problems any more.

Adele
West Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada)

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Re: [lace] Re: hint - elastic bands on bobbins

[Liz Roberts]

I have used small stretchy/elastic hair bands on bobbins to keep the workers 
identified so I don't mix them up. These have a thread type covering so I don't 
think they would stick to the bobbins when they get old. I've also used the 
little stretchy hair bands without a thread covering for small projects like a 
bookmarks. 


Traditional rubber bands do break down, but I've only seen both of these just 
get too loose or break.


Liz Roberts in Missouri USA where we have a mild but windy day after several 
days of cold weather. No snow yet this year.

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[lace] Propose an OIDFA Work Group for S vs. Z Threads and Winding Bobbins

[Jeri Ames]

A preview of the letter below was sent to a prominent lace expert / volunteer.
 She has often wondered why no one has written something comprehensive on S
vs. Z Threads and everything you'd ever want to know about Winding Threads on
bobbins.  She thinks no one feels qualified.  
 
That is why OIDFA is on the Subject line.  A copy is being sent to Margaret
Abbey, President.  All the officers would have to be consulted, and it might
have to be discussed at the 2018 Congress.  This allows lots of time for
arguments on Arachne.  Would someone please volunteer to collect related
correspondence for us?  


Questions about 1) S vs. Z twists of threads and 2) everything about winding
bobbins, have been around a long time and people are more confused than ever.
 Today's thread manufacturers and people working with thread need guidance,
because most never had basic instruction of how thread is used.  (Many do not
even know how to thread a needle, or that one side of a needle's eye is
designed for that purpose.)  Lace makers in different countries have
different customs.  Reasons some laces are worked palms down and others palms
up needs clarification, along with an explanation if S or Z twists matter, and
the direction in which the bobbins should be filled with thread.  Here is
what has been observed:
 
1.  There is a very lovely children's book of bobbin lace patterns being
marketed by a not-for-profit that has 2 totally incomprehensible pages devoted
to winding bobbins.  I did not review the book - would have had to tell the
truth.  Last December I sent a donation to be used to film children winding
bobbins for the not-for-profit's You Tube, and since the books are printed in
small batches I recommended these pages be revised.  They are just getting
around to filming.  My first question is usually - Who proofread this
publication from cover-to-cover?  There is a saying - The Devil is in the
details.  There are so few willing and knowledgeable volunteers available,
that the few have been attending to more pressing management issues in lace
facilities and lace guilds.  The personal cost to these few is very high.
 They are under pressure all the time.  People expect information to be
free.  Lace organizations need capable volunteers to help deliver "free".
 
2.  Australian, Barbara Ballantyne, shared her crochet research with us a few
years ago.  She taught us that thread manufacturers today do not have basic
knowledge of how thread is used and why the twist direction is important. 

https://www.mail-archive.com/lace@arachne.com/msg35959.html
 
3.  Because different laces have different traditional techniques, I
remembered a 159-page $50 hardback book purchased in Europe in 2012: Point
Ground Lace - Blonde, Point de Lille Spitze, Punto Antico, Pecna cipka, Ret-fi
- by Lace a European Network.  It was developed with financial support from
the European Union, and written by lace groups in 5 nations - France, Germany,
Italy, Slovenia, and Spain.  It is in the 5 languages of these countries,
plus English.  This does not address S vs.V twists and bobbin winding.  It
is an example of collaboration.

 
4.  OIDFA (l' Organisation Internationale de la Dentelle au Fuseau et à l'
Aiguille, which translates to International Bobbin and Needle Lace
Organisation) has long sponsored Work Groups.  They have done meaningful
research into laces used on national textiles and costumes, and published
results in books.  They also schedule lectures that explain various aspects
of lace research.  It is not always easy to understand the books, perhaps
because of a lack of proper editing.  However, why not ask OIDFA to sponsor
an international study of the confusing and contradicting subjects described
in this memo and on Arachne today?  The study should not be exclusively for
OIDFA members, but be a vehicle for providing the very best and most accurate
cohesive explanations of these critical aspects of preparing to learn to make
lace, or trying a new lace (today's lace makers like to make traditional laces
from a variety of cultures).  It would take a while to gain consensus, but
every bobbin lace could be included.  An example of how universal it might be
is the International Lace Dictionary by Johan Coene et al.
 
 
Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center. 

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Re: [lace] Propose an OIDFA Work Group for S vs. Z Threads and Winding Bobbins

[Carol]

Dear Shirley and others interested in threading a needle.
The simplest way to know you are using the wrong side of the needle is when the 
thread doesn’t go through the eye of the needle, assuming of course you have 
lined everything up properly.  Simply roll the needle between your thumb and 
first finger until the other side of the eye is facing you and again  push your 
thread through the eye.  Should work just fine.  Sometimes for me that still 
doesn’t work and then I check the end of the thread for minute fibers hanging.  
Trim the thread, re-dampen (spit works for me), pinch the end of your thread 
and aim for the eye.  Victory is in your grasp!
Best regards,
Carol Melton
West of Phoenix, AZ USA
Valley of the Sun

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 11, 2017, at 5:07 PM, Tregellas Family  
> wrote:
>   Now I will check the eye of the 
> needles with a strong lens to make sure I'm doing this correctly, 
> thereby getting rid of my frustration.  Any hints would be gratefully 
> received.
> 

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Re: [lace] Propose an OIDFA Work Group for S vs. Z Threads and Winding Bobbins

[Tregellas Family]

Thank you Jeri for your very informative message below.  Not being an 
embroiderer, both my Mum and sister were excellent in that area, so I 
had no need while growing up, I had no idea that a needle had a right 
and wrong side for threading.  That is one activity which always brings 
out the frustration side of me.  :-)  Now I will check the eye of the 
needles with a strong lens to make sure I'm doing this correctly, 
thereby getting rid of my frustration.  Any hints would be gratefully 
received.

I do hope you stay on Arachne as your missives are so very important to 
us all.

Happy Christmas to you all
Shirley T.  -  Adelaide, South Australia where the temp is supposed to 
reach 36C today then 38C tomorrow and we've been warned of our 
horrendous fire danger.  Seeing TV pics of the California fires has been 
very scary.


On 12-Dec-17 8:14 AM, Jeri Ames wrote:
> A preview of the letter below was sent to a prominent lace expert / volunteer.
> Â She has often wondered why no one has written something comprehensive on S
> vs. Z Threads and everything you'd ever want to know about Winding Threads on
> bobbins.

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Re: [lace] Propose an OIDFA Work Group for S vs. Z Threads and Winding Bobbins

[Tregellas Family]

Thank you so much Carol. I will persist in my needle work with victory 
in sight.  :-)  Now to go read Barbara's missive on threads.

Cheers,
Shirley T.


On 12-Dec-17 11:03 AM, Carol wrote:
> Dear Shirley and others interested in threading a needle.
> The simplest way to know you are using the wrong side of the needle is when 
> the thread doesn’t go through the eye of the needle, assuming of course you 
> have lined everything up properly.

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Re: [lace] Propose an OIDFA Work Group for S vs. Z Threads and Winding Bobbins

[Barbara Ballantyne]

I would be interested in joining the work group on S and Z bobbins and 
winding bobbins.

In 2010 I wrote a small book on the structure of threads for lace.

Jeri reviewed it on Arachne at the time.

This is a fascinating, sometimes difficult and important topic not 
generally understood.

The amount of twist in the thread is crucial.

  * If it is too tightly twisted the thread may be difficult to work
with  (it curls up on itself) and the resulting lace/textile tight
and undesirable.

  * If is not twisted enough the thread lacks strength and may break.

The direction of twist is often changed in the process working  - this 
is usually the crucial point rather than  the direction of twist is in 
the first place.

My book covered several aspects.

I it gave the usual diagrams of S and Z along with cabled thread.

2 it looked at the*direction of twist of the threads used for lace 
today*.  It included the information in Brenda Paternoster's book and 
what I saw when I looked at the thread collection of a lacemaker and 
what was being sold at the moment here.

The bobbin lace threads varied a good deal  - 2S 2Z 3S and 3Z.

Even *within a particular brand and size of thread some spools were S 
and others were Z finished *

For example Kantklosgaren Egyptisch Katoen No 31 included some which 
were 2S and others 2Z

Also Presencia Finca Bollilos No 80 had some 3Z and also 3S.

There is a one A4 page listing the threads and the direction of twist.

3  I showed how most Z finished crochet thread overtwists in the process 
of working.

4 When I crocheted test samples with a range of crochet threads of 
similar size but different structures (3S 3Z 2S and 2S/3Z) there was 
little effect of the direction of twist. *However I avoided any change 
in the amount of twist by working with a short length of thread and 
taking the thread off the side of the ball.*

5 diagrams of what happened to the amount of thread with twisted ribbon 
on a spool when

a taken off the side of the spool (no change)

b taken off the top or bottom of the spool (either an increase or decrease)

(I found this twisted ribbon way of illustration  used by Jean Leader to 
be very good)

6 I wondered why Z finished threads came on the scene.  The old laces 
were made with S-finished thread (the traditional situation with linen 
becauseof the particular properties of the linen fibres).  Rosemary 
Shepherd had advised the use of S-finished thread for bobbin lace.

I found a book chapter written by Philip Sykas which mentioned the 
change from S  to Z finish in sewing thread, possibly towards the end of 
the 1800s.  It was done to overcome the untwisting and breaking of the 
needle thread in certain sewing machines (among other things).  The use 
of Z finished thread is essential in modern sewing machines.  (Philip 
Sykas is  an experienced and well respected textile expert at Manchester 
Metropolitan University)

I suggested that the change in lace thread followed the change in the 
sewing thread.

Sewing thread is a huge market whereas that for lace thread is much much 
smaller.

My self published book /Structure of threads for lace/ is still 
available from me for $A12 plus postage.  See my webpage 
www.crochethistory.com/books.

Lacis (www.lacis.com) also stocks it at a rather high price.

There is a lot of detail in this post but it seems necessary

Barbara Ballantyne

in sunny Sydney, Australia


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Re: [lace] Smithsonian Ipswich lace pillow

[Doris]

Foot side on the LEFT...Rafael’s book suggests Ipswich workers might have been 
influenced initially by immigrants from Europe, and continued to use left foot 
side thereafter. Page 70,”...Lakeman (d.1862)continued to make lace in the way 
she had learned it as a girl, though women in England were working with the 
foot side on the right by 1862.

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 10, 2017, at 10:50 PM, Janice Blair  wrote:
> 
> Went back for another look and noticed that the pillow is shown from the back
> and the lace being worked on the pillow has the footside on the right. The
> pricking was probably also photographed upside down.Sorry for the
> confusion.Janice Janice Blair Murrieta, CA, jblace.com
> 
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Re: [lace] Smithsonian Ipswich lace pillow

[Lorri Ferguson]

This has really been and interesting thread.  Hurrah for Arachne

Lorri



From: owner-l...@arachne.com  on behalf of Karen
Thompson 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 6:16 AM
To: Arachne
Subject: [lace] Smithsonian Ipswich lace pillow

Dear Janice, Lorri and others,
Thank you for all the interest. Hopefully this thread will help shed more
light on a very important part of American handmade lace history.

Janice writes: "One thing I did notice though was that the Smithsonian lace
had a left footside whereas most English lace to my knowledge have a right
hand footside.  Maybe Karen can explain why the change of side if the lady
who produced the lace originally came from England
."

Elizabeth Lord Lakeman was born in Ipswich, MA in 1767 and moved to
Hallowell, Maine upon marriage. She worked one of the original Ipswich lace
patterns as a young woman living in Ipswich, MA. It is now in the
Smithsonian collection, where you can see it at:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_645070
[http://americanhistory.si.edu/sites/all/themes/nmah2014/images/nmah-print.jp
g]

Ipswich Bobbin Lace Pattern From Late 1700's | National
...
americanhistory.si.edu
Description The Ipswich lace industry used patterns such as this linen
pasteboard pricking in the late 1700's. The pattern corresponds to one of the
black silk lace ...




or

as the last object

by searching Smithsonian lace collection
.
 It corresponds to one of the samples from 1789-1790 at the Library of
Congress
(number 9)
.  Later in her life she made the white point ground lace
that is
left on her Ipswich pillow when she died at the age of 94.

At this point we do not know where the first lace teacher in Ipswich, MA
came from or when, but since about 600 lace makers made lace in Ipswich, MA
in 1790, lacemaking had been practiced
there

for a long time. Most likely the original teacher came from the
c
ontinent or the Downton area as the footside is on the left.

Lorri writes:
"
If the bolster was situated opposite of the photo, wouldn't the foot side be

on the right.
"
 The bobbins are no longer attached, but the direction is still clear from
the finished lace in the back and the broken threads from the bobbins in
the front of the pins. This and all the Ipswich, MA samples have the
footside at the left.

Karen - in sunny and cold Delaware, USA


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[cid:ad33eaa6-8f52-4767-8d80-5f8bd5eccf07]Simbi með
trukkinn

[https://farm1.staticflickr.com/3/5118236_94f976f34e_b.jpg]

[https://farm1.staticflickr.com/3/5118236_94f976f34e_b.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/png which had a name of 
Outlook-to1uiuwi.png]

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Re: [lace] Winding Idrija bobbins for use "plams up" on a bolster

[Elena Kanagy-Loux]

Interesting! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

I also noted while studying in Barcelona that bobbins were wound 
counter-clockwise. Sadly, for the life of me I could just not get the hitch 
right! The clockwise hitch is eternally cemented in my brain.

The instructor of said class told me that it is necessary to wind 
counter-clockwise for hanging bobbins, and others have echoed this in the 
conversation. But I wonder, why is that? I’m curious. It isn’t clear to me why 
that would make a difference. 

Best,
Elena

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[lace] date for Bucks point

[Karen Thompson]

Thank you Alex and Devon for chiming in on the question of beginning of the
point ground laces. Devon, it would be interesting to see your pictures. It
seems reasonable that the lighter, airier fashion in the late 1700s with
tiny sprigs lent itself to the double thread ground c-t-t-t as opposed to
the 4-thread grounds like Droschel, Mechlin and Valenciennes. Santina
Levey: Lace A History, p. 71: "...the eighteenth century saw a steady
reduction in the density of pattern" but says nothing about the
construction. The first mention of simple, twist net ground is Fig 352
showing Lille lace from ca.1800.  Judyth Gwynne writes in The Illustrated
Dictionary of Lace p. 32 about blonde: Laces with fond simple ground
(1754-93)... with no reference to where that information came from.
The price of linen certainly also could have contributed to using less
thread, as well as the beginnings of the machine made point ground like
nets. Hannover and Eslykke both say the point ground Tønder laces are
imitating Arras lace around 1800, but I cannot find reference to Arras lace
history.

Karen - currently in Washington DC, where my lace books reside.

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[lace] Footside on left or right?

[Janis Savage]

The question of why the footside of yardage lace is either on the right
(mainly English laces) or on the left (mainly European continent laces) has
come up regularly over the years and no-one seems to have a definitive answer
other than the Brits do everything the other way around from their continental
cousins.

I have a personal theory, so I take full blame if I am proved wrong. When I
first learned to make bobbin lace in England in the late 1970's, photocopy
machines were still a rarity so we were taught to trace the pricking from a
book and then prick it through onto card and transfer the marking. However, at
various lace days it was acceptable to ask a lacemaker for a copy of her
pricking and the way to do it was to take a rubbing of the reverse side of the
pricking. I still have some rubbings from those days and my piece of heelbore
from the local cobbler.

For a torchon pricking you can usually use it either way up with the pricking
on left or right but with Bucks Point, or similar, with floral designs, it did
make a difference and the way to get the design the right way up was to put
the footside on the other side. For fairly simple designs, even a flower can
be made either way up but for more complex designs it can be quite difficult.

So my theory is that when the Mechlin and Lille lacemakers fled to England ,
they either took rubbings of their prickings or allowed rubbings to be taken
from their prickings in their new country and the quickest and easiest way to
make up these designs was to change the side of the footside.

I hope that this makes sense and if anyone has problems with my theory I am
willing to listen.

Lace greetings from

Janis in South Africa

where the sun is shining again today after some serious rain in the past
week.

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