Re: the legacy as a high tech ornamental lathe...the next level?
Hello Everyone. My intent is and always has been , to get the most out of the Legacy Ornamental millI find it funny that the term Ornamental is such a huge field to study. Holtzapffel's lathe, and the Rose Engine lathe along with many other OT machines... all have there own versions of what is Ornamental turning.I think the Legacy can do more... In many ways the Legacy has some huge advantages over other machines that do O.T. work, but having said that, the Dis-advantages are also present. Which makes it, a lot of fun. I mean, "How" can I do the same things,Differently? ;-) Joe I agree with you the pumping action is a very neat concept. and I think it can be used on the Legacy? (but not in the same way the Rose lathe uses it.)NEAT STUFF, Concepts that make my brain hurt at times. and keeps me up at night. What possibility's... we have! More latter.Have a good night, All.C.A.G. On Monday, February 12, 2018 11:57 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: I am starting a dedicated topic to this subject because this has the potential to get very interesting as well as challenging, but it was inspired by curt's find of a video on you tube of the rose engine lathe... that video is one of a series of videos, dedicated to the rose engine lathe... and from my perspective, a rose lathe is a high end ornamental lathe but working under very close tolerances... certainly the tolerances are greater than what we would work with when working with different wood species... but it is my understanding that the rose lathe was used quite often in the watch industry, thus the need for close tolerances...getting back to the video, it shows a pumping action of the headstock on the "Y" axis, which is typical on a rose lathe, as well as a pumping action on the "X" axis... the person who made the videos, steve white, is obviously very much into doing mods on his lathes...and what he has come up with is certainly very interesting, complex and just "off the charts", as the saying goes...with variations and adjustments that would seem endless... whether this type of pumping movement could be incorporated into a legacy machine or not, is an interesting prospect... could it be done on a legacy within the tolerances necessary to make it workable on a wooden piece?...again, not sure... but worth a discussion here and possible consideration... and certainly impressive is the "wave" set up that a number of members to this group have set up on their legacy... but this pumping action puts things on an entirely different level...and then comes the question, could it be done somewhat cost effective?... or is it better to try to find a rose engine lathe?...and what would that cost!... and how far does anyone want to take their legacy to try to achieve "holtzapffel" status?, if that is even possible...but even a holtzapffel did not have a pumping action in the headstock, I believe(I might have to take a mulligan on that statement!...LOL!)... anyway, if you are into this topic, I suggest you look at steve white's series of videos(there seems to be at least 30 videos!) on the mods he did to his rose lathe...very interesting videos...joe b.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: the legacy as a high tech ornamental lathe...the next level?
Here's some threads of interest on this topic. Start of an interesting thread regarding rotary table patterns. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/legacy-ornamental-mills/CMB8EID_rGo/_Xyynt5yUREJ Additional Rotary Table Patterns and start of the math. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/legacy-ornamental-mills/Lxmc9O2OAmo/wdUDhUWeSrIJ Pumping the x axis on the rotary table. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/legacy-ornamental-mills/nJf_26yGF64/QVQRc-tOta0J I know there is another thread of great interest, but I can't find it. It would have been back in 2010 when I was much more active... -Tim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: the legacy as a high tech ornamental lathe...the next level?
A really long time ago I considered the option of making a rocking attachment that would sit between the rails as well, but it's a dead end. I even thought about a swinging option from the bottom rails that would at least put a rose engine type motion and put the router in it natural position. That's how I came to the conclusion that the rotary table was the best option and why pumping the x axis was the easiest. Also in my thoughts from the past is making a Geometric Chuck. One hell of a challenge to keep it affordable and not take too many years to build. It would be so much easier to move the work rather than the carriage. Also in the background is development of an Oval Chuck type device for making ellipses pieces. It too would be in a rotary table position. There are many OT devices that could be implemented. Once you start digging, there is information that is both old and new available. As a member of the SOT, I've really enjoyed looking through the old SOT bulletins. The OTI also has some information that is worth becoming a member to get access. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: the legacy as a high tech ornamental lathe...the next level?
hey tim!... I might think in this instance, as to what is trying to be achieved, the ideal solution is to have a true, "rocking" headstock assembly, where the headstock rocks in unison with the tailstock...no easy task, for sure...and it just might not be feasible(i.e. impossible) on an existing legacy machine...but perhaps there is a solution out there and someone has an idea as to how to achieve this...in a quick thought, I was thinking a separate bed, that could be placed into the machine as an accessory...but then again, I haven't eaten anything all day so my brain might be starved for fuel!...LOL!...anyhow, it would be interesting to see what you have come up with from your past endeavors and what anyone else might have to offer...thanks for the input...joe >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: the legacy as a high tech ornamental lathe...the next level?
I forgot, Spirograph patterns are a different story. I have a complicated solution that is limited. I'm still looking for the simple and flexible answer. When using the rotary table hooked up to the spindle and the leadscrew engaged, you can only achieve roulette curves. See wiki for that last word. Thanks go to Ron Kirsch for the math help a long time ago. He helped me see the limitations. Sent from BlueMail On Feb 12, 2018, 10:39 AM, at 10:39 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: >hey tom! > I can't say I remember steve, but I was a member of the >ornamental turners society some 30 years ago...attended several, yearly > >symposiums... then, it seems the group was absorbed into the AAW, then >seemed to fade away...good stuff back then, but a bit more simplistic >then >what is available in today's world, I might think...I do enjoy >"playing" >with my legacy but, realistically, a good cnc machine with the right >program, can duplicate just about any thing you could imagine on a >legacy(with or without any custom mods) without the need for the gears, > >lead screws, no back lash, etc.,etc...steve white's work and mods are >very >impressive, I have to say...what it boils down to, in my opinion, is >this: >are you doing ornamental work for business or pleasure?... for >pleasure, >you can "play" with doing your own mods, somewhat in a fashion like >steve >does, but perhaps a bit simpler, LOL!...a lot of us have the >imagination >and design skills to go to certain levels with our legacy machines, but >not >the equipment or metal turning/milling skills needed to go to the level > >that steve does...I for one would certainly pay an admission just to >see >his workshop and equipment, and to have a lengthy conversation on the >state >of ornamental turning in today's world with him...it's all >good!...thanks >for the reply!...joe > > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >To post to this group, send email to >legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at >https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: the legacy as a high tech ornamental lathe...the next level?
Pumping the x and y axis is something I been working on for a long time. I showed that pumping the x axis is easy in a past message thread. It was done on my rotary table. I used a simple fixed swash plate on the lead screw and used a small bearing on the router carriage. I used chain and sprockets of different ratios to control the number of repeats. Wrapping a wave around the circumference of a spindle would use the same method. There's a couple problems that need to be worked out, but when I'm ready to show what I've done so far I'll talk about those. Sent from BlueMail On Feb 12, 2018, 10:39 AM, at 10:39 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote: >hey tom! > I can't say I remember steve, but I was a member of the >ornamental turners society some 30 years ago...attended several, yearly > >symposiums... then, it seems the group was absorbed into the AAW, then >seemed to fade away...good stuff back then, but a bit more simplistic >then >what is available in today's world, I might think...I do enjoy >"playing" >with my legacy but, realistically, a good cnc machine with the right >program, can duplicate just about any thing you could imagine on a >legacy(with or without any custom mods) without the need for the gears, > >lead screws, no back lash, etc.,etc...steve white's work and mods are >very >impressive, I have to say...what it boils down to, in my opinion, is >this: >are you doing ornamental work for business or pleasure?... for >pleasure, >you can "play" with doing your own mods, somewhat in a fashion like >steve >does, but perhaps a bit simpler, LOL!...a lot of us have the >imagination >and design skills to go to certain levels with our legacy machines, but >not >the equipment or metal turning/milling skills needed to go to the level > >that steve does...I for one would certainly pay an admission just to >see >his workshop and equipment, and to have a lengthy conversation on the >state >of ornamental turning in today's world with him...it's all >good!...thanks >for the reply!...joe > > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >To post to this group, send email to >legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at >https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: the legacy as a high tech ornamental lathe...the next level?
hey tom! I can't say I remember steve, but I was a member of the ornamental turners society some 30 years ago...attended several, yearly symposiums... then, it seems the group was absorbed into the AAW, then seemed to fade away...good stuff back then, but a bit more simplistic then what is available in today's world, I might think...I do enjoy "playing" with my legacy but, realistically, a good cnc machine with the right program, can duplicate just about any thing you could imagine on a legacy(with or without any custom mods) without the need for the gears, lead screws, no back lash, etc.,etc...steve white's work and mods are very impressive, I have to say...what it boils down to, in my opinion, is this: are you doing ornamental work for business or pleasure?... for pleasure, you can "play" with doing your own mods, somewhat in a fashion like steve does, but perhaps a bit simpler, LOL!...a lot of us have the imagination and design skills to go to certain levels with our legacy machines, but not the equipment or metal turning/milling skills needed to go to the level that steve does...I for one would certainly pay an admission just to see his workshop and equipment, and to have a lengthy conversation on the state of ornamental turning in today's world with him...it's all good!...thanks for the reply!...joe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: the legacy as a high tech ornamental lathe...the next level?
Hi Joe B Sterve White is a past president of the Ornamental Turners of America, a professional tool & die maker an endless experimenter with new ideas and a tireless booster of Ornamental Turning. Together with David Lindow also a past president he makes and sells several highly accurate machines for the centuries old craft of Ornamental turning. Peter the Great of Russia had 19 different machines in the 1700's. On making or buying a rose machine you might check out Jon Magill who has designned a MDF machine that can be built for about $200 or if $'s are no concern you can buy a brand new absolutely beautiful modern Rose Engine (look up MADE LATHE) starting at about 85K$. Nearly all Holtzzaffel lathes are antiques as the last of 2400 built was made in 1924 or thereabouts. Highly sought after and most often highly priced. Since most practioners of the art are no longer chiokldren they do come on the market from time to time. cheersTom Dotta On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:57 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills < legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com> wrote: > I am starting a dedicated topic to this subject because this has the > potential to get very interesting as well as challenging, but it was > inspired by curt's find of a video on you tube of the rose engine lathe... > that video is one of a series of videos, dedicated to the rose engine > lathe... and from my perspective, a rose lathe is a high end ornamental > lathe but working under very close tolerances... certainly the tolerances > are greater than what we would work with when working with different wood > species... but it is my understanding that the rose lathe was used quite > often in the watch industry, thus the need for close tolerances...getting > back to the video, it shows a pumping action of the headstock on the "Y" > axis, which is typical on a rose lathe, as well as a pumping action on the > "X" axis... the person who made the videos, steve white, is obviously very > much into doing mods on his lathes...and what he has come up with is > certainly very interesting, complex and just "off the charts", as the > saying goes...with variations and adjustments that would seem endless... > whether this type of pumping movement could be incorporated into a legacy > machine or not, is an interesting prospect... could it be done on a legacy > within the tolerances necessary to make it workable on a wooden > piece?...again, not sure... but worth a discussion here and possible > consideration... and certainly impressive is the "wave" set up that a > number of members to this group have set up on their legacy... but this > pumping action puts things on an entirely different level...and then comes > the question, could it be done somewhat cost effective?... or is it better > to try to find a rose engine lathe?...and what would that cost!... and how > far does anyone want to take their legacy to try to achieve "holtzapffel" > status?, if that is even possible...but even a holtzapffel did not have a > pumping action in the headstock, I believe(I might have to take a mulligan > on that statement!...LOL!)... anyway, if you are into this topic, I suggest > you look at steve white's series of videos(there seems to be at least 30 > videos!) on the mods he did to his rose lathe...very interesting > videos...joe b. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@ > googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/ > group/legacy-ornamental-mills. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
