On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 03:44:27PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Reinhold Kainhofer reinh...@kainhofer.com writes:
{
\at 4 \
\at 1*2/3 \!
c'1\p
}
[12 days later, and no followup again]
Let's just continue pretending me to be a naysayer then.
You demonstrated that a
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes:
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
It would be tremendously helpful if you can show possible syntax
*alternatives* instead of just pretending to be a naysayer.
I've posted actual working definitions for that purpose.
It seems I've missed that, lost in
On 26/09/2012 14:34, David Kastrup wrote:
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes:
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
It would be tremendously helpful if you can show possible syntax
*alternatives* instead of just pretending to be a naysayer.
I've posted actual working definitions for that
Reinhold Kainhofer reinh...@kainhofer.com writes:
On 26/09/2012 14:34, David Kastrup wrote:
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes:
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
It would be tremendously helpful if you can show possible syntax
*alternatives* instead of just pretending to be a naysayer.
at =
#(define-music-function (parser location time event music)
(ly:duration? ly:music? ly:music?)
Place @var{event} at a relative duration @var{time} in relation
to @var{music}.
#{ { \skip $time $event } $music #})
{
\at 4 \
\at 1*2/3 \!
c'1\p
}
[12 days later, and
Reinhold Kainhofer reinh...@kainhofer.com writes:
On 26/09/2012 14:34, David Kastrup wrote:
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org writes:
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
It would be tremendously helpful if you can show possible syntax
*alternatives* instead of just pretending to be a naysayer.
\after { c'1\p } 4 \after \ 1*1/6 \!
This is now in time order but I am not really convinced that it is
less confusing.
You are right, it's worse. Your first solution is fine except that it
doesn't follow lilypond's suffix notation.
Werner
2012/9/24 Keith OHara k-ohara5...@oco.net:
Graham Percival graham at percival-music.ca writes:
Although mathematicians and programmers are quite
comfortable with contains with 0 items inside them, this is not a
particularly intuitive concept (just look at the concept of zero
in the history
Benkő Pál benko@gmail.com writes:
2012/9/24 Keith OHara k-ohara5...@oco.net:
Graham Percival graham at percival-music.ca writes:
Although mathematicians and programmers are quite
comfortable with contains with 0 items inside them, this is not a
particularly intuitive concept (just
2012/9/24 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
Benkő Pál benko@gmail.com writes:
does anybody has a similar way (not a function) of marking just the first
note with a cautionary accidental?
This is probably somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but try
{
\key fis\major
dis4
\once\accidentalStyle
On 23/09/12 15:58, David Kastrup wrote:
With the separately discussed isolated durations are pitch-less
NoteEvent in noteentry, you could use arguments like
{ 8 ~ 8. } = { 4 }
and such music arguments would get passed through a \score markup using
a specific TempoStaff without stafflines and
2012/9/23 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
As I said: I have not yet tackled this actively since at least the
equals sign may still become part of the universe supported by music
functions.
If \tempo had mandatory curly braces, that would simplify things.
\tempo already accepts \markup. All
On 23/09/12 00:07, Graham Percival wrote:
I have no problem with splitting \tempo into a \tempo_bpm and
\tempoMark command. Or perhaps it would be better to just use
\mark, and add markup functions which mimic the text parts of
the existing \tempo command (if they don't already exist, which
Hello,
On 23 September 2012 04:29, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Jay Anderson horndud...@gmail.com writes:
On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Graham Percival
gra...@percival-music.ca wrote:
I have no problem with splitting \tempo into a \tempo_bpm and
\tempoMark command. Or perhaps it
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes:
Step back for a second and consider the variants you might want in a tempo
change:
(1) specified beat unit has a particular number of bpm. Your beat unit
may not be limited to a typical unit like a quarter- or
Graham Percival graham at percival-music.ca writes:
Although mathematicians and programmers are quite
comfortable with contains with 0 items inside them, this is not a
particularly intuitive concept (just look at the concept of zero
in the history of mathematics!)
Well, the concept and
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:00:49AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
How about considering how they are supposed to translate to and from
Scheme?
Woah. Is the syntax supposed to support translating from scheme
to .ly ?!
Reality check.
On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Graham Percival
gra...@percival-music.ca wrote:
I have no problem with splitting \tempo into a \tempo_bpm and
\tempoMark command. Or perhaps it would be better to just use
\mark, and add markup functions which mimic the text parts of
the existing \tempo
Jay Anderson horndud...@gmail.com writes:
On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Graham Percival
gra...@percival-music.ca wrote:
I have no problem with splitting \tempo into a \tempo_bpm and
\tempoMark command. Or perhaps it would be better to just use
\mark, and add markup functions which mimic
On 13/09/12 08:11, David Kastrup wrote:
If it does, so does
c'1 { s4 s\ s2 s\! }
Stepping back from syntax for a second, the problem with the above (as currently
implemented) is that the spacing will not produce correct output from a visual
engraving point of view. This applies also to
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes:
On 13/09/12 08:11, David Kastrup wrote:
If it does, so does
c'1 { s4 s\ s2 s\! }
Stepping back from syntax for a second,
Let's keep that in mind.
the problem with the above (as currently implemented) is that the
spacing will
On 17/09/12 13:38, David Kastrup wrote:
So what would be required here seemingly would be linearization of the
spacing in absence of note columns which convey proper timing through
their note values, however non-linearly spaced.
Actually, this is an interesting question for people to examine
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
\tempo does not have optional arguments but rather several quite
different forms of argument lists, and then some rather weird form
of numeric range echoed nowhere else in the syntax.
BTW, could you suggest a better syntax for \tempo which looks
similar
\tempo does not have optional arguments but rather several quite
different forms of argument lists, and then some rather weird form
of numeric range echoed nowhere else in the syntax.
BTW, could you suggest a better syntax for \tempo which looks
similar to the current definition, but avoiding
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:39:52PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
I think we need to decide what direction we want the syntax to
move in (or indeed, decide not to change the syntax at all!).
I don't see the point in the repeated threats of
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:39:52PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
I think we need to decide what direction we want the syntax to
move in (or indeed, decide not to change the syntax at all!).
I
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
It would be tremendously helpful if you can show possible syntax
*alternatives* instead of just pretending to be a naysayer.
I've posted actual working definitions for that purpose.
It seems I've missed that, lost in the many examples you've given to
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 z\! }
This looks nice. No idea whether it works, but something into this
directions looks right.
Werner
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c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 z\! }
c-d-.
Which one gets the accent?
What should `c-d' mean? AFAIK, there is only one `anchor', namely the
note pitch (which would be `c' in your example). A pitch attached to
a pitch doesn't make sense to me.
If you provide counterexamples, which is good, please
I rather suggest to handle the -{ ... } construct specially, for
example, to allow only `s' and Graham's proposed `z', together with
constructions which work like articulations.
Actually, if we have -{ ... }, we don't need `z' at all:
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 s\! }
fully does the job, by
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 07:18:50AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
Here's a few imaginary ways of writing the same music:
\at 4 \ \at 1 \! c'1
c'1 y4 y\ y z\!
c'1- y4 y\ y z\!
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
I rather suggest to handle the -{ ... } construct specially, for
example, to allow only `s' and Graham's proposed `z', together with
constructions which work like articulations.
Actually, if we have -{ ... }, we don't need `z' at all:
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 07:29:35AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
With that view (which is evidently not universal), it seems natural to
me to write the pitch and duration first, and then all
Actually, if we have -{ ... }, we don't need `z' at all:
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 s\! }
fully does the job, by registering the fact that a final `s' comes at
a moment which is equal the anchor's duration (sloppily formulated).
If it does, so does
c'1 { s4 s\ s2 s\! }
Yes.
Or are you
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
Actually, if we have -{ ... }, we don't need `z' at all:
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 s\! }
fully does the job, by registering the fact that a final `s' comes at
a moment which is equal the anchor's duration (sloppily formulated).
If it does, so does
c'1 { s4
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:37:00PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
Actually, if we have -{ ... }, we don't need `z' at all:
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 s\! }
This is a little bit unclear, since the final s\! would have the
same duration as the previous s2, and thus
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
I don't follow this. If we can produce an unambiguous expansion
of
c'1- s4 s\ s2 z\!
into
{ c'1 } { s4 s\ s2 z\! }
then surely it can be expressed as music functions.
\displayLilyMusic would have no chance reconstructing the input.
I think there's still a need for a event
after the previous duration, i.e.
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 \! }
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 z\! }
Mhmm. If we have
anchor-{ skip1 skip2 ... skipn skipx }
with
duration(skip1) + duration(skip2) + ... duration(skipn) =
duration(anchor)
then skipx can have
[...]
This is a quantum leap backwards in making LilyPond and Scheme
expressions and variables and functions and arguments in the parser
work and combine in a predictable manner.
I am working hard on stopping the Scheme layer from being something
entirely different and interacting in
Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org writes:
[...]
This is a quantum leap backwards in making LilyPond and Scheme
expressions and variables and functions and arguments in the parser
work and combine in a predictable manner.
I am working hard on stopping the Scheme layer from being something
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:37:00PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
I am working hard to get expressions like { s4 s\ s1 s\! } parseable
and recognizable without context, and obliterate the need to write - for
anything except accent shorthands. This is pretty much unavoidable if
you want to get
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 08:56:26PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham's and my suggestions are very restrictive, and we are just
playing around with possible syntax forms.
How about considering how they are supposed to translate to and from
Scheme?
Woah. Is the syntax supposed to support
David, please relax. I've typeset hundreds of pages with lilypond,
including complicated piano and organ music; I don't lightly
suggest syntactic stuff just to annoy you.
We are getting most certainly nowhere if people don't even bother
understanding the technical points of my replies.
I
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 08:56:26PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham's and my suggestions are very restrictive, and we are just
playing around with possible syntax forms.
How about considering how they are supposed to translate to and from
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:37:00PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
I am working hard to get expressions like { s4 s\ s1 s\! } parseable
and recognizable without context, and obliterate the need to write - for
anything except accent shorthands.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:00 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Take a look at the \tempo command. Everybody and their dog tells me
that this is just what a musician wants in syntax. Whenever I do
significant work on the parser, \tempo pitches in with a few dozen
reduce/reduce errors and
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:23:43PM -0300, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:00 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Take a look at the \tempo command. Everybody and their dog tells me
that this is just what a musician wants in syntax. Whenever I do
significant work on the
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:23:43PM -0300, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:00 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Take a look at the \tempo command. Everybody and their dog tells me
that this is just what a musician wants
I'd like to float two ideas about events.
The first is to define a null event which functions like the
empty chord . Although mathematicians and programmers are quite
comfortable with contains with 0 items inside them, this is not a
particularly intuitive concept (just look at the concept of
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
I'd like to float two ideas about events.
The first is to define a null event which functions like the
empty chord . Although mathematicians and programmers are quite
comfortable with contains with 0 items inside them, this is not a
The first is to define a null event which functions like the empty
chord .
While this is perhaps a nice syntax sugar idea...
\new Voice { c'1 y4\ y y\ y\! }
... I think that this is a nightmare both on the user and the
parser/lexer side. Your proposed `y' essentially means to go
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 01:56:35AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
A vaguely-related idea is to allow easy positioning of musical
events within a note. Instead of having a non-timed null event
which begins *after* the previous note, we have a
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
Here's a few imaginary ways of writing the same music:
\at 4 \ \at 1 \! c'1
c'1 y4 y\ y z\!
c'1- y4 y\ y z\!
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 z\! }
Out of these, I'm most comfortable with the last one.
c-d-.
Which one gets the accent?
--
David
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
I think of music as being a series of
pitches+rhythms+modifications. I mean, when I skim music, my eyes
notice the staff position, notehead, and beam before really taking
in dynamic signs, articulations, etc.
You'll be really popular with
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 07:18:50AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
Here's a few imaginary ways of writing the same music:
\at 4 \ \at 1 \! c'1
c'1 y4 y\ y z\!
c'1- y4 y\ y z\!
c'1-{ s4 s\ s2 z\! }
Out of these, I'm most
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 07:29:35AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca writes:
With that view (which is evidently not universal), it seems natural to
me to write the pitch and duration first, and then all the other
special bits that occur on or around that
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