Re: [OT] Linux Users

[David Wright]

On Wed 22 Nov 2017 at 11:43:37 (+0100), Simon Albrecht wrote:
> On 20.11.2017 18:12, Hilary Snaden wrote:
> >If there are any "graphical tools" as good as LaTeX, I'll be
> >interested to hear of them.
> 
> Adobe InDesign is certainly in many ways a “better” tool than LaTeX,
> in some “just as good” (like with the line breaking algorithms that
> it learned from TeX), and in some “less useful”, I’d assume
> particularly due to its closed source nature and lack of plain text
> input format.

I was under the impression that A-ID was now a rental service, not
a bought product. This carries the implication that continued access
to your own files is conditional on paying the rental fee (for ever).

BTW I don't think it has been revealed what the "graphical tools" are
that were alluded to in the OP.

I started using LilyPond in 2007 on Debian's sarge which used LP
2.2.6, still through the DVI→PS→PDF chain, but I quickly moved to
2.8.7 later in the year. My wife had bought a windows GUI program
which she quickly outgrew. Instead, she typed in the basic notes
and lyrics, and I did the rest with LP.

I migrated to Debian linux in 1996 on its first named release, after
a brief flirtation with Slackware running over a DOS filesystem
(UMSDOS), thereby coexisting with DOS/Windows3.1.

I migrated from GCAL on Phoenix (daisy-wheel printers!) to …TeX in
1986, originally running on DOS and Vaxen. I settled on emacs at about
the same time after a variety of highly customised platform-specific
editors. I now use the LuaTeX engine with all PDF files apart from
the odd jpg/png.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[arnepe]

on the topic of "graphical tools": an alternative to InDesign would be
Scribus, which also has "render frames" to include lilypond code

https://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Help:Manual_Renderframes#Lilypond

greetings
Arne



--
Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Simon Albrecht]

On 20.11.2017 18:12, Hilary Snaden wrote:
If there are any "graphical tools" as good as LaTeX, I'll be 
interested to hear of them. 


Adobe InDesign is certainly in many ways a “better” tool than LaTeX, in 
some “just as good” (like with the line breaking algorithms that it 
learned from TeX), and in some “less useful”, I’d assume particularly 
due to its closed source nature and lack of plain text input format.


Best, Simon

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Hilary Snaden]

On 17/11/17 22:59, Brett M. Gilio wrote:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
graphical tools?


I currently use a Raspberry Pi 3 with Ubuntu 16.04 to run LilyPond, as 
my primary boxes run Debian 9, which has no repo LilyPond. I haven't yet 
tried the installable binary. I have used LaTeX in the past, I may do so 
again. If there are any "graphical tools" as good as LaTeX, I'll be 
interested to hear of them.


--
Hilary


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2017-11-20 um 09:53 schrieb David Kastrup :

> Sure.  It's part of the cost of using TeX as a programming language.
> All the important and/or costly things when running plain TeX are
> executed in Pascal and the respective data kept there.
> 
> But LaTeX does a lot of programming in TeX macros (just take a look at
> the difference for \"A or even Ä in some input encoding), and PDFTeX has
> to deal with a lot more font data and structure than just the metrics in
> the TFM file, and the respective libraries have not been written by
> Knuth.

But LuaTeX again does away with a lot of the TeX programming, esp. regarding 
font handling (luaotfload for LaTeX, extracted from ConTeXt).

With big documents, LuajitTeX is worth a look; depending on obscure 
circumstances, it’s mostly faster than "normal" LuaTeX. Don’t know how to 
invoke it with LaTeX, though (luajitlatex?).

Greetlings, Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net
http://wiki.contextgarden.net
GPG Key ID 1C9B22FD


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[David Kastrup]

Urs Liska  writes:

> Am 20.11.2017 um 09:34 schrieb David Kastrup:
>> Urs Liska  writes:
>>
>>> Am 19.11.2017 um 23:43 schrieb Br. Samuel Springuel:
 On 2017-11-19 5:28 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Font selection, language support, UTF-8 input…
 All of these are supported in LuaTeX/LuaLaTeX.

 For some key differences see this:
 https://www.overleaf.com/blog/500-whats-in-a-name-a-guide-to-the-many-flavours-of-tex#keyfeatures


>>> There's one feature that sets LuaLaTeX apart from XeLaTeX for my use
>>> cases, and that's the compatibility of the 'microtype' package. While
>>> it works with XeTeX it offers a limited feature set - and that package
>>> with LuaTeX provides (at least for me) those last 5% of beautiful
>>> typesetting.
>>>
>>> However, this comes at a cost: both XeTeX and LuaTeX work
>>> *substantially* slower than pdfTeX.
>> Which works substantially slower than compiling to DVI and then using
>> dvips or similar.
>>
>>> I'm always stunned how fast "ordinary" compilation can be with LaTeX,
>>> for example when simply pushing a Markdown document through Pandoc.
>> Try compiling the TeX source code to DVI (not! PDF) with plain TeX.
>> That was sort of the definition of a large document in the 80s.
>
> I'll sure do that occasionally
>
>> Makes you wonder where LaTeX spends all its time.
>>
>
> Do you have an idea where it does?

Sure.  It's part of the cost of using TeX as a programming language.
All the important and/or costly things when running plain TeX are
executed in Pascal and the respective data kept there.

But LaTeX does a lot of programming in TeX macros (just take a look at
the difference for \"A or even Ä in some input encoding), and PDFTeX has
to deal with a lot more font data and structure than just the metrics in
the TFM file, and the respective libraries have not been written by
Knuth.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 20.11.2017 um 09:34 schrieb David Kastrup:

Urs Liska  writes:


Am 19.11.2017 um 23:43 schrieb Br. Samuel Springuel:

On 2017-11-19 5:28 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Font selection, language support, UTF-8 input…

All of these are supported in LuaTeX/LuaLaTeX.

For some key differences see this:
https://www.overleaf.com/blog/500-whats-in-a-name-a-guide-to-the-many-flavours-of-tex#keyfeatures



There's one feature that sets LuaLaTeX apart from XeLaTeX for my use
cases, and that's the compatibility of the 'microtype' package. While
it works with XeTeX it offers a limited feature set - and that package
with LuaTeX provides (at least for me) those last 5% of beautiful
typesetting.

However, this comes at a cost: both XeTeX and LuaTeX work
*substantially* slower than pdfTeX.

Which works substantially slower than compiling to DVI and then using
dvips or similar.


I'm always stunned how fast "ordinary" compilation can be with LaTeX,
for example when simply pushing a Markdown document through Pandoc.

Try compiling the TeX source code to DVI (not! PDF) with plain TeX.
That was sort of the definition of a large document in the 80s.


I'll sure do that occasionally


Makes you wonder where LaTeX spends all its time.



Do you have an idea where it does?

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2017-11-20 um 09:30 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm :

> Am 2017-11-19 um 16:46 schrieb Marc Hohl :
> 
>> Am 18.11.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Jacques Peron:
>>> Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. To 
>>> integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
>>> .
>> 
>> Which is a great tool and IMHO easier to use than lilypond-book!
> 
> A similar approach for ConTeXt instead of LaTeX is my LilyPond module (i.e. 
> config for the filter module):
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/LilyPond

... also using LuaTeX, as ConTeXt MkIV is partly written in Lua itself.

Oh, and, BTW: ConTeXt is the reference platform of LuaTeX; most features are 
ported to LaTeX only later.

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net




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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[David Kastrup]

Urs Liska  writes:

> Am 19.11.2017 um 23:43 schrieb Br. Samuel Springuel:
>> On 2017-11-19 5:28 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:
>>> Font selection, language support, UTF-8 input…
>>
>> All of these are supported in LuaTeX/LuaLaTeX.
>>
>> For some key differences see this:
>> https://www.overleaf.com/blog/500-whats-in-a-name-a-guide-to-the-many-flavours-of-tex#keyfeatures
>>
>>
>
> There's one feature that sets LuaLaTeX apart from XeLaTeX for my use
> cases, and that's the compatibility of the 'microtype' package. While
> it works with XeTeX it offers a limited feature set - and that package
> with LuaTeX provides (at least for me) those last 5% of beautiful
> typesetting.
>
> However, this comes at a cost: both XeTeX and LuaTeX work
> *substantially* slower than pdfTeX.

Which works substantially slower than compiling to DVI and then using
dvips or similar.

> I'm always stunned how fast "ordinary" compilation can be with LaTeX,
> for example when simply pushing a Markdown document through Pandoc.

Try compiling the TeX source code to DVI (not! PDF) with plain TeX.
That was sort of the definition of a large document in the 80s.

Makes you wonder where LaTeX spends all its time.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2017-11-19 um 16:46 schrieb Marc Hohl :

> Am 18.11.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Jacques Peron:
>> Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. To 
>> integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
>> .
> 
> Which is a great tool and IMHO easier to use than lilypond-book!

A similar approach for ConTeXt instead of LaTeX is my LilyPond module (i.e. 
config for the filter module):
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/LilyPond


Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net




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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 19.11.2017 um 23:43 schrieb Br. Samuel Springuel:

On 2017-11-19 5:28 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Font selection, language support, UTF-8 input…


All of these are supported in LuaTeX/LuaLaTeX.

For some key differences see this:
https://www.overleaf.com/blog/500-whats-in-a-name-a-guide-to-the-many-flavours-of-tex#keyfeatures 





There's one feature that sets LuaLaTeX apart from XeLaTeX for my use 
cases, and that's the compatibility of the 'microtype' package. While it 
works with XeTeX it offers a limited feature set - and that package with 
LuaTeX provides (at least for me) those last 5% of beautiful typesetting.


However, this comes at a cost: both XeTeX and LuaTeX work 
*substantially* slower than pdfTeX. I'm always stunned how fast 
"ordinary" compilation can be with LaTeX, for example when simply 
pushing a Markdown document through Pandoc.


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Br. Samuel Springuel]

On 2017-11-19 5:28 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Font selection, language support, UTF-8 input…


All of these are supported in LuaTeX/LuaLaTeX.

For some key differences see this:
https://www.overleaf.com/blog/500-whats-in-a-name-a-guide-to-the-many-flavours-of-tex#keyfeatures

--
✝
Br. Samuel, OSB
St. Anselm’s Abbey
Washington, DC
(R. Padraic Springuel)

PAX ☧ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Simon Albrecht]

On 19.11.2017 23:19, Urs Liska wrote:

Am 19.11.2017 um 23:07 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

On 19.11.2017 22:58, Urs Liska wrote:

Am 19.11.2017 um 22:55 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

On 18.11.2017 17:58, Jacques Peron wrote:
Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. 
To integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
.


Pardon the question: If it involves Lua, doesn’t that make it 
incompatible with XeLaTeX?


Yes, hence the name ly/lua/tex ;-)


As I needn’t tell you, Urs, that’s a major drawback for users like me, 


Indeed it's a drawback when a package is limited to a single LaTeX 
engine. But if on the other hand this LaTeX engine provides support 
for features that enable stuff in the first place there's nothing 
wrong with using it, just because others can't.


or anybody who wants to use the lilyglyphs package, 


lilyglyphs works with both XeLaTeX and LuaLaTeX. Initially I created 
it for XeLaTeX, but Dave Bellows helped me making it compatible with 
both. Quite some time ago.



or other XeLaTeX features…


For example?


Font selection, language support, UTF-8 input…
now I think more of it, I don’t actually know anything about LuaLaTeX 
features, so sorry if those are all supported there as well…


Best, Simon

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 19.11.2017 um 23:07 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

On 19.11.2017 22:58, Urs Liska wrote:

Am 19.11.2017 um 22:55 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

On 18.11.2017 17:58, Jacques Peron wrote:
Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. 
To integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
.


Pardon the question: If it involves Lua, doesn’t that make it 
incompatible with XeLaTeX?


Yes, hence the name ly/lua/tex ;-)


As I needn’t tell you, Urs, that’s a major drawback for users like me, 


Indeed it's a drawback when a package is limited to a single LaTeX 
engine. But if on the other hand this LaTeX engine provides support for 
features that enable stuff in the first place there's nothing wrong with 
using it, just because others can't.


or anybody who wants to use the lilyglyphs package, 


lilyglyphs works with both XeLaTeX and LuaLaTeX. Initially I created it 
for XeLaTeX, but Dave Bellows helped me making it compatible with both. 
Quite some time ago.



or other XeLaTeX features…


For example?

Urs

then again, I might prefer working with includegraphics and pdfpages 
in the rare cases that I work with LaTeX.


Best, Simon



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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Simon Albrecht]

On 19.11.2017 22:58, Urs Liska wrote:

Am 19.11.2017 um 22:55 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

On 18.11.2017 17:58, Jacques Peron wrote:
Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. 
To integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
.


Pardon the question: If it involves Lua, doesn’t that make it 
incompatible with XeLaTeX?


Yes, hence the name ly/lua/tex ;-)


As I needn’t tell you, Urs, that’s a major drawback for users like me, 
or anybody who wants to use the lilyglyphs package, or other XeLaTeX 
features…
then again, I might prefer working with includegraphics and pdfpages in 
the rare cases that I work with LaTeX.


Best, Simon

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 19.11.2017 um 22:55 schrieb Simon Albrecht:

On 18.11.2017 17:58, Jacques Peron wrote:
Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. To 
integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
.


Pardon the question: If it involves Lua, doesn’t that make it 
incompatible with XeLaTeX?


Yes, hence the name ly/lua/tex ;-)



Best, Simon

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Simon Albrecht]

On 18.11.2017 17:58, Jacques Peron wrote:
Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. To 
integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
.


Pardon the question: If it involves Lua, doesn’t that make it 
incompatible with XeLaTeX?


Best, Simon

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 19.11.2017 um 20:06 schrieb Jacques Peron:


 > As far as I can tell the cleanest (and easiest) way would be to
> publish the package on CTAN so it will be included in TeX
distros like
> TeXLive (like it is the case with lilyglyphs).

I'd be really glad to do so, but I don't know how to... And if I 
remember what I read about the integration of Gregorio, calling 
external programs from "official" packages obeys quite difficult rules.




But the people over at CTAN and TeXLive are very helpful sorting out 
this kind of thing.
I will definitely try out your package and maybe try to make it work 
together with my 'musicexamples' package (I hope that your package will 
add the missing functionality to mine ;-) ). When I have understood how 
it works we can see how to go through that process.


Best
Urs
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[David Kastrup]

Abbé Jacques Peron  writes:

> I found the problem : it came from @currenv, that is in fact
> @currenvir.

Ouch.  Sorry, sloppy reading.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Abbé Jacques Peron]

I found the problem : it came from @currenv, that is in fact @currenvir.
After last modifications
,
I think lyluatex should work as a drop-in replacement for lilypond-book,
while keeping backward compatibility for those who already used lyluatex.

Please feel free to test and report bugs
 !
​

2017-11-19 20:54 GMT+01:00 Abbé Jacques Peron 
:

> Just tried that, and it doesn’t work :
>
> \let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
> \protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
>   \ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
>   \else \expandafter \lily \fi}
>
> I think it has something to do with \expandafter, but I don’t know TeX
> enough to be sure…
> ​
>
>
> 2017-11-19 20:39 GMT+01:00 Abbé Jacques Peron <
> abbe.jacques.pe...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Neither are called lilypond.  It's not particularly great, but there are
 examples for the sharing of command and environment.  Basically you
 check whether @currenvir is set to LilyPond.  As long as you don't
 _nest_ those constructs...

 The environment is defined as `ly`, but there is a `lilypond` alias. So
>> `\begin{lilypond}` just works.
>>
>> Basically:

 \newenvironment{lilypond}
 {...}
 {...}

 \newcommand{\lilypondcommand}{...}

 \let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
 \protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
\ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
\else \expandafter \lilypondcommand \fi}

 Ugly, sure.  But I think LilyPond upstream would be sympathetic to
 making command and environment named differently in the long run.


>> I'm going to try it just now.
>>
>> I don’t know enough about (La?)TeX internals to understand the code above
>>> but if you redefined the command \lilypond, would things like the following
>>> still be possible?
>>>
>>> \newenvironment{dly}{
>>> \center
>>> \ly
>>> \language "deutsch"
>>>
>>> \paper {
>>> ##(define fonts
>>> (set-global-fonts
>>> ##:music "cadence"
>>> ##:brace "cadence"
>>> ##:roman "Vollkorn"
>>> ##:factor (/ staff-height pt 20)))
>>> }
>>>
>>> \layout {
>>> % some other general things
>>> }
>>>
>>> % some includes and function definitions
>>> }{\endly\endcenter}
>>
>>
>> As you are using `\ly`, as soon as I don't modify it, it'll work.
>>
>
>
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Abbé Jacques Peron]

Just tried that, and it doesn’t work :

\let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
\protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
  \ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
  \else \expandafter \lily \fi}

I think it has something to do with \expandafter, but I don’t know TeX
enough to be sure…
​


2017-11-19 20:39 GMT+01:00 Abbé Jacques Peron 
:

> Neither are called lilypond.  It's not particularly great, but there are
>>> examples for the sharing of command and environment.  Basically you
>>> check whether @currenvir is set to LilyPond.  As long as you don't
>>> _nest_ those constructs...
>>>
>>> The environment is defined as `ly`, but there is a `lilypond` alias. So
> `\begin{lilypond}` just works.
>
> Basically:
>>>
>>> \newenvironment{lilypond}
>>> {...}
>>> {...}
>>>
>>> \newcommand{\lilypondcommand}{...}
>>>
>>> \let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
>>> \protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
>>>\ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
>>>\else \expandafter \lilypondcommand \fi}
>>>
>>> Ugly, sure.  But I think LilyPond upstream would be sympathetic to
>>> making command and environment named differently in the long run.
>>>
>>>
> I'm going to try it just now.
>
> I don’t know enough about (La?)TeX internals to understand the code above
>> but if you redefined the command \lilypond, would things like the following
>> still be possible?
>>
>> \newenvironment{dly}{
>> \center
>> \ly
>> \language "deutsch"
>>
>> \paper {
>> ##(define fonts
>> (set-global-fonts
>> ##:music "cadence"
>> ##:brace "cadence"
>> ##:roman "Vollkorn"
>> ##:factor (/ staff-height pt 20)))
>> }
>>
>> \layout {
>> % some other general things
>> }
>>
>> % some includes and function definitions
>> }{\endly\endcenter}
>
>
> As you are using `\ly`, as soon as I don't modify it, it'll work.
>
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Abbé Jacques Peron]

And @David Kastrup : thank you very much for telling me how to achieve the
same name for environment and command !

2017-11-19 22:05 GMT+01:00 Abbé Jacques Peron 
:

> I found the problem : it came from @currenv, that is in fact @currenvir.
> After last modifications
> ,
> I think lyluatex should work as a drop-in replacement for lilypond-book,
> while keeping backward compatibility for those who already used lyluatex.
>
> Please feel free to test and report bugs
>  !
> ​
>
> 2017-11-19 20:54 GMT+01:00 Abbé Jacques Peron <
> abbe.jacques.pe...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Just tried that, and it doesn’t work :
>>
>> \let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
>> \protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
>>   \ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
>>   \else \expandafter \lily \fi}
>>
>> I think it has something to do with \expandafter, but I don’t know TeX
>> enough to be sure…
>> ​
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-19 20:39 GMT+01:00 Abbé Jacques Peron <
>> abbe.jacques.pe...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Neither are called lilypond.  It's not particularly great, but there are
> examples for the sharing of command and environment.  Basically you
> check whether @currenvir is set to LilyPond.  As long as you don't
> _nest_ those constructs...
>
> The environment is defined as `ly`, but there is a `lilypond` alias.
>>> So `\begin{lilypond}` just works.
>>>
>>> Basically:
>
> \newenvironment{lilypond}
> {...}
> {...}
>
> \newcommand{\lilypondcommand}{...}
>
> \let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
> \protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
>\ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
>\else \expandafter \lilypondcommand \fi}
>
> Ugly, sure.  But I think LilyPond upstream would be sympathetic to
> making command and environment named differently in the long run.
>
>
>>> I'm going to try it just now.
>>>
>>> I don’t know enough about (La?)TeX internals to understand the code
 above but if you redefined the command \lilypond, would things like the
 following still be possible?

 \newenvironment{dly}{
 \center
 \ly
 \language "deutsch"

 \paper {
 ##(define fonts
 (set-global-fonts
 ##:music "cadence"
 ##:brace "cadence"
 ##:roman "Vollkorn"
 ##:factor (/ staff-height pt 20)))
 }

 \layout {
 % some other general things
 }

 % some includes and function definitions
 }{\endly\endcenter}
>>>
>>>
>>> As you are using `\ly`, as soon as I don't modify it, it'll work.
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Abbé Jacques Peron]

>
> Neither are called lilypond.  It's not particularly great, but there are
>> examples for the sharing of command and environment.  Basically you
>> check whether @currenvir is set to LilyPond.  As long as you don't
>> _nest_ those constructs...
>>
>> The environment is defined as `ly`, but there is a `lilypond` alias. So
`\begin{lilypond}` just works.

Basically:
>>
>> \newenvironment{lilypond}
>> {...}
>> {...}
>>
>> \newcommand{\lilypondcommand}{...}
>>
>> \let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
>> \protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
>>\ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
>>\else \expandafter \lilypondcommand \fi}
>>
>> Ugly, sure.  But I think LilyPond upstream would be sympathetic to
>> making command and environment named differently in the long run.
>>
>>
I'm going to try it just now.

I don’t know enough about (La?)TeX internals to understand the code above
> but if you redefined the command \lilypond, would things like the following
> still be possible?
>
> \newenvironment{dly}{
> \center
> \ly
> \language "deutsch"
>
> \paper {
> ##(define fonts
> (set-global-fonts
> ##:music "cadence"
> ##:brace "cadence"
> ##:roman "Vollkorn"
> ##:factor (/ staff-height pt 20)))
> }
>
> \layout {
> % some other general things
> }
>
> % some includes and function definitions
> }{\endly\endcenter}


As you are using `\ly`, as soon as I don't modify it, it'll work.
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Malte Meyn]

Am 19.11.2017 um 20:28 schrieb David Kastrup:

Jacques Peron  writes:

The only thing I don't know how to do is to have the same name (lilypond)
for thé command and for the environment. So I privileged the
environment.


Neither are called lilypond.  It's not particularly great, but there are
examples for the sharing of command and environment.  Basically you
check whether @currenvir is set to LilyPond.  As long as you don't
_nest_ those constructs...

Basically:

\newenvironment{lilypond}
{...}
{...}

\newcommand{\lilypondcommand}{...}

\let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
\protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
   \ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
   \else \expandafter \lilypondcommand \fi}

Ugly, sure.  But I think LilyPond upstream would be sympathetic to
making command and environment named differently in the long run.



I don’t know enough about (La?)TeX internals to understand the code 
above but if you redefined the command \lilypond, would things like the 
following still be possible?


\newenvironment{dly}{
\center
\ly
\language "deutsch"

\paper {
##(define fonts
(set-global-fonts
##:music "cadence"
##:brace "cadence"
##:roman "Vollkorn"
##:factor (/ staff-height pt 20)))
}

\layout {
% some other general things
}

% some includes and function definitions
}{\endly\endcenter}

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[David Kastrup]

Jacques Peron  writes:

>  > As far as I can tell the cleanest (and easiest) way would be to
>> publish the package on CTAN so it will be included in TeX distros like
>> TeXLive (like it is the case with lilyglyphs).
>
> I'd be really glad to do so, but I don't know how to... And if I remember
> what I read about the integration of Gregorio, calling external programs
> from "official" packages obeys quite difficult rules.
>
> *Then* of course it
>> should be mentioned in the LilyPond docs too.
>
> It's already mentioned here :
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/usage/luatex
>
>
> I fail to see why it uses different syntax for embedding LilyPond code
> than lilypond-book does, though.  Why not make it compatible by just
> adding the right \usepackage invocation?
>
> The only thing I don't know how to do is to have the same name (lilypond)
> for thé command and for the environment. So I privileged the
> environment.

Neither are called lilypond.  It's not particularly great, but there are
examples for the sharing of command and environment.  Basically you
check whether @currenvir is set to LilyPond.  As long as you don't
_nest_ those constructs...

Basically:

\newenvironment{lilypond}
{...}
{...}

\newcommand{\lilypondcommand}{...}

\let\lilypond@envcode\lilypond
\protected\def\lilypond{\def\reserved@a{lilypond}%
  \ifx\reserved@a\@currenv \expandafter\lilypond@envcode
  \else \expandafter \lilypondcommand \fi}

Ugly, sure.  But I think LilyPond upstream would be sympathetic to
making command and environment named differently in the long run.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Jacques Peron]

 > As far as I can tell the cleanest (and easiest) way would be to
> publish the package on CTAN so it will be included in TeX distros like
> TeXLive (like it is the case with lilyglyphs).

I'd be really glad to do so, but I don't know how to... And if I remember
what I read about the integration of Gregorio, calling external programs
from "official" packages obeys quite difficult rules.

*Then* of course it
> should be mentioned in the LilyPond docs too.

It's already mentioned here :
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/usage/luatex


I fail to see why it uses different syntax for embedding LilyPond code
than lilypond-book does, though.  Why not make it compatible by just
adding the right \usepackage invocation?

The only thing I don't know how to do is to have the same name (lilypond)
for thé command and for the environment. So I privileged the environment.
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Br. Samuel Springuel]

On 2017-11-19 12:12 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

I fail to see why it uses different syntax for embedding LilyPond code
than lilypond-book does, though.  Why not make it compatible by just
adding the right \usepackage invocation?


Actually, the package does define some aliases which should allow mostly 
for a `\usepackage` drop in.  Full compatibility, however, I don't think 
is possible because of command conflict:


It is not possible to have a command named `\lilypond` and an 
environment named `lilypond` in the same LaTeX document.  Internally, 
`\newenvironment{lilypond}` defines two commands: `\lilypond` and 
`\endlilypond` (which correspond to `\begin{lilypond}` and 
`\end{lilypond}`).  The former command will conflict with attempts to 
define `\lilypond` as an independent command (raising an "Command 
already defined" error).  Since lilypond-book is a preprocessor which 
swaps out these sections for valid code based on `\includegraphics` it 
can ignore this LaTeX restriction.  Since lyluatex functions from within 
LaTeX, it cannot.


--
✝
Br. Samuel, OSB
St. Anselm’s Abbey
Washington, DC
(R. Padraic Springuel)

PAX ☧ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[David Kastrup]

Urs Liska  writes:

> Am 19.11.2017 um 17:55 schrieb Malte Meyn:
>>> I would love to see an introduction to that toolchain on
>>> lilypondblog.org. Jacques, would you write such a post, please?
>>
>> That would be nice. 
>
> Communication has already started ;-)
>
>> And maybe, if or when this has been tested enough by different users
>> on different systems, it could become part of the official lilypond
>> releases? I’m not sure whether this could be done without manual
>> installation of the files in a directory that can be seen by LaTeX …
>> But at least a mention in the docs would be nice.
>
> As far as I can tell the cleanest (and easiest) way would be to
> publish the package on CTAN so it will be included in TeX distros like
> TeXLive (like it is the case with lilyglyphs). *Then* of course it
> should be mentioned in the LilyPond docs too.

I fail to see why it uses different syntax for embedding LilyPond code
than lilypond-book does, though.  Why not make it compatible by just
adding the right \usepackage invocation?

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 19.11.2017 um 17:55 schrieb Malte Meyn:
I would love to see an introduction to that toolchain on 
lilypondblog.org. Jacques, would you write such a post, please?


That would be nice. 


Communication has already started ;-)

And maybe, if or when this has been tested enough by different users 
on different systems, it could become part of the official lilypond 
releases? I’m not sure whether this could be done without manual 
installation of the files in a directory that can be seen by LaTeX … 
But at least a mention in the docs would be nice.


As far as I can tell the cleanest (and easiest) way would be to publish 
the package on CTAN so it will be included in TeX distros like TeXLive 
(like it is the case with lilyglyphs). *Then* of course it should be 
mentioned in the LilyPond docs too.


Urs

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Malte Meyn]

Am 19.11.2017 um 16:57 schrieb Urs Liska:



Am 19.11.2017 um 16:46 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Am 18.11.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Jacques Peron:
Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. To 
integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
.


Which is a great tool and IMHO easier to use than lilypond-book!


I have just read through the README, and I think this is a really great 
tool.


Yes, it really is. You don’t need to call an extra program but only 
(Lua)LaTeX. And it compiles only those LilyPond snippets that have 
changed so changes only to LaTeX code don’t add compilation time for 
LilyPond ;)


I would love to see an introduction to that toolchain on 
lilypondblog.org. Jacques, would you write such a post, please?


That would be nice. And maybe, if or when this has been tested enough by 
different users on different systems, it could become part of the 
official lilypond releases? I’m not sure whether this could be done 
without manual installation of the files in a directory that can be seen 
by LaTeX … But at least a mention in the docs would be nice.


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 19.11.2017 um 16:46 schrieb Marc Hohl:

Am 18.11.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Jacques Peron:
Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. To 
integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
.


Which is a great tool and IMHO easier to use than lilypond-book!


I have just read through the README, and I think this is a really great 
tool.
I would love to see an introduction to that toolchain on 
lilypondblog.org. Jacques, would you write such a post, please?


Urs

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Marc Hohl]

Am 18.11.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Jacques Peron:
Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. To 
integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex 
.


Which is a great tool and IMHO easier to use than lilypond-book!

Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX/XeLaTeX here.

Marc


​

2017-11-18 17:24 GMT+01:00 David Bellows >:


I use Linux, Lilypond, LuaLaTeX, and Csound, editing all of it in
emacs. This does seem like a pretty potent or at least popular
combination.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Sam Bivens > wrote:
 > I'm also a Linux user. For notation I use LilyPond (with Frescobaldi)
 > exclusively, and for any serious writing I use LaTeX.
 >
 > Although I use the lilyglyphs package in LaTeX, I've never gotten
around to
 > using lilypond-book; instead I just autocrop my Lily PDFs and
insert those
 > as floats.
 >
 > A quick question for others: I've used LilyPond a couple times on
Mac, and
 > the compile times were horrendous. Are the compile times on Linux
faster
 > than on other operating systems? (Unfortunately I can't remember
what Mac OS
 > I used...)
 >
 > Sam
 >
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 > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

 >

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 19.11.2017 um 14:56 schrieb Thomas Scharkowski:

 Original-Nachricht 

...
A quick question for others: I've used LilyPond a couple times on Mac,
and the compile times were /horrendous/. Are the compile times on Linux
faster than on other operating systems? (Unfortunately I can't remember
what Mac OS I used...)



I remember having tested the compile time of an identical ly on Mac OS 
and on Debian virtual machine on the same Mac.

The Debian was slightly faster. This seems to indicate you are right.


Very long compile times on Windows had been discussed occasionally. The 
issue *there* had been related to the font cache. I think in general the 
issue is limited to the *first* compilation of a new version while IIRC 
there were LilyPond versions that incorrectly built that cache for each 
compilation.


So (as others have already said) we need more information about your system.

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Thomas Scharkowski]

 Original-Nachricht 

...
A quick question for others: I've used LilyPond a couple times on Mac,
and the compile times were /horrendous/. Are the compile times on Linux
faster than on other operating systems? (Unfortunately I can't remember
what Mac OS I used...)



I remember having tested the compile time of an identical ly on Mac OS 
and on Debian virtual machine on the same Mac.

The Debian was slightly faster. This seems to indicate you are right.

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Jan-Peter Voigt]

Hi Urs,

Am 18.11.2017 um 16:04 schrieb Urs Liska:



Am 18.11.2017 um 15:59 schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt:

Hello,

Am 18.11.2017 um 15:44 schrieb Hwaen Ch'uqi:

However, when a mix of text and music is involved, I use LilyPond's
rather robust \markup and \markuplist commands, finding lilypond-book
to be too cumbersome or specific.
sometimes I typeset a preface text for a LilyPond document. I use a 
markup command that starts XeLaTeX to create a PDF, exports all pages 
into EPS-files with pdftops and then imports them as a markuplist. 
Sounds complicated, but is actually easy to use.


I assume this set-up doesn't have any notion of page breaks?
So it isn't possible to split the text blocks into multiple parts?.
yes and no: If the text doesn't fit in one block, that is page in the 
PDF, it is separated into multiple EPS-file. Those files are then 
included in a markup-list.


It would be great if LIlyPond would know where *on the page* the markup 
block would start, That way it would be possible to pass that info to 
LaTeX (in the form of paper size and geometry info) and create one or 
multiple files with the typeset text, which would then just fit onto the 
remaining space on the score paper.


Urs

Right now it is not possible to have different page sizes per page to 
start on the remaining space of one page and then add another full-sized 
page.
The width and height of the EPS-markup-blocks is retrieved from the 
paper/layout information and then adapted/calculated for the 
paper-size/geometry information in the LaTeX-code. Optionally width 
and/or height can be set manually via markup-override-command.

Perhaps I will create an OLL-package ...

Jan-Peter


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Re:[OT] Linux Users

[Blöchl Bernhard]

Deeply interesting information.
http://orgmode.org/#docs
http://orgmode.org/org.pdf
Nice. But I think for literate programmers only .

Regards

Am 19.11.2017 04:08, schrieb James Harkins:

FWIW, Emacs org-mode is a really nice way to integrate LaTeX and
LilyPond for articles.

org-mode exports to LaTeX.

org-babel can automatically run LilyPond source blocks embedded in the
org document, generating EPS and dropping it seamlessly into the LaTeX
document. If you wrap the source block in a figure, you get a caption,
index number and references for free.

hjh


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Re:[OT] Linux Users

[Martin Tarenskeen]

My main platform for LilyPond is Linux. Frescobaldi is a joy to work with, 
but I also use Vim as editor for LP source files. I simply can type faster 
in Vim because I use it a lot for other stuff.


Sometimes I want to integrate musical fragments in text documents. I have 
tried to use LaTeX and lilypond-book for that. It works, but nowadays I 
prefer to use LibreOffice with OooLilypond plugin or, when I need to use 
Windows, the recently released MsLily plugin for Word. I donated to get 
the fully working version and did not regret.


--

MT



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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Werner LEMBERG]

> It just can't handle Khmer lyric.

This is not a lilypond issue at all, AFAIC.  I guess that the used
Pandoc and HarfBuzz library versions are not recent enough.

Please send me a small lilypond example with Khmer lyrics, together
with an image that shows how the text should look like (using the same
font so that the Khmer ligatures are identical).


Werner

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Vanthon]

I completely switched to Linux (Debian) since I started lilypond and only 
Fresconaldi two years ago. Lilyppnd sometimes can't handle the ttf fonts as 
title font. (That goes the same as ly2video. It just can't handle Khmer lyric. 
But that's a different issue)
I used Latex as my final work output because it requires lots of text due to 
nature of Khmer music.
The lilypond-book didn't help much. I tried lilypond-book (score and text) and 
it was a pain.
Lilypond in windows I haven't tried yet!I just love lilypond with Linux!
Vanthon


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, November 18, 2017, 5:59 AM, Brett M. Gilio  
wrote:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
graphical tools?


BMG

-- 
Brett M. Gilio
B.S. Biological Sciences
B.M. Music Composition
http://www.brettgilio.com/


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Re:[OT] Linux Users

[James Harkins]

FWIW, Emacs org-mode is a really nice way to integrate LaTeX and LilyPond for 
articles.

org-mode exports to LaTeX.

org-babel can automatically run LilyPond source blocks embedded in the org 
document, generating EPS and dropping it seamlessly into the LaTeX document. If 
you wrap the source block in a figure, you get a caption, index number and 
references for free.

hjh


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Knut Petersen]

Am 17.11.2017 um 23:59 schrieb Brett M. Gilio:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
graphical tools?

I completely switched to Linux more than 20 years ago and use *TeX for more 
than 25 years.
Today I prefer the LuaTeX engine.

I don't use Csound.

Knut


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said "Brett M. Gilio" on Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:59:27 -0600:

> How many Linux  users are out there in the  Lilypond community? Do any
> of you use other type-setting software  such as LaTeX or Csound rather
> than graphical tools?

I wonder if analysis of the  user-agent strings from the web server logs
for lilypond.org would be of any value in this inquiry.

Andy
-- 
TAI64 timestamp: 40005a108e63



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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Guy Stalnaker]

I use Lilypond within Frescobaldi on Win10, MacOS on a MacBookPro, and an old 
MacBook running LinuxMint. Frescobaldi serves all my needs. I started out using 
Frescobaldi solely on Linux my destop OS of choice for 10+ years. My 
compositions are all on Dropbox which I sync to the computers on which I use 
Frescobaldi.

Guy


--
“Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end of 
human existence.”
― Aristotle



From: Brett M. Gilio
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 1:29 AM
Subject: [OT] Linux Users
To: Lilypond-User Mailing List


How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of you use 
other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than graphical 
tools? BMG -- Brett M. Gilio B.S. Biological Sciences B.M. Music Composition 
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Simon Albrecht]

On 18.11.2017 20:12, Brett M. Gilio wrote:

On 11/18/2017 07:26 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

Andrew Bernard  writes:

Hi Brett,

I use Linux for most of my work, and for all my lilypond work.

What are you trying to establish, may I ask? A statistical survey of
platform usage? Or are you really asking about what graphical tools are
available? Your query seems to have multiple aspects.

The Linux platform is strongly supported by the lilypond developers.

I seem to rememver there was some sort of usage survey on the list a
couple of years ago.

I think that most people used LilyPond with Windows, including some core
developers (who use VMs for their development activities).  Somewhat
sobering.  But certainly a good validation for the Gub setup allowing us
to provide Windows binaries that are up-to-date.

Hi David,

    I have been a GNU/Linux + Lilypond user for some years now, and I did
not know that the core developers used windows. Do you know much about
the compatibility differences between windows binaries and the original
lilypond build or is it ported directly from the build?


Hi Brett,

you misread that. _Some_ core developers use Windows in normal life, but 
they have to resort to virtual machines for development, since building 
LilyPond is only possible on Linux.
For building, GUB (Grand Unified Builder) is used, which is designed 
specifically to cross-compile LilyPond for the different platforms. For 
more on that, see the Contributors’ Guide.


Best, Simon

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Johan Vromans]

I only use Linux (mostly Fedora).

I use LilyPond with Frescobaldi, Denemo, Emacs, LibreOffice and a lot of
homegrown tools.

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Brett M. Gilio]

> Would it be worth setting up a survey post on lilypondblog.org?
>
I would be interested in seeing this.


Brett M. Gilio
B.S. Biological Sciences
B.M. Music Composition
http://www.brettgilio.com/

"Sometimes the obvious is the enemy of the true." 
- G. Stolzenberg


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Brett M. Gilio]

On 11/18/2017 07:26 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
> Andrew Bernard  writes:
>
>> Hi Brett,
>>
>> I use Linux for most of my work, and for all my lilypond work.
>>
>> What are you trying to establish, may I ask? A statistical survey of
>> platform usage? Or are you really asking about what graphical tools are
>> available? Your query seems to have multiple aspects.
>>
>> The Linux platform is strongly supported by the lilypond developers.
>>
>> I seem to rememver there was some sort of usage survey on the list a
>> couple of years ago.
> I think that most people used LilyPond with Windows, including some core
> developers (who use VMs for their development activities).  Somewhat
> sobering.  But certainly a good validation for the Gub setup allowing us
> to provide Windows binaries that are up-to-date.
>

Hi David,

   I have been a GNU/Linux + Lilypond user for some years now, and I did
not know that the core developers used windows. Do you know much about
the compatibility differences between windows binaries and the original
lilypond build or is it ported directly from the build?


Brett M. Gilio
B.S. Biological Sciences
B.M. Music Composition
http://www.brettgilio.com/

"Sometimes the obvious is the enemy of the true." 
- G. Stolzenberg


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Frauke Jurgensen]

I do! Plain TeX and LaTeX.

On 18 Nov 2017 7:29 am, "Brett M. Gilio"  wrote:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
graphical tools?


BMG

--
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B.S. Biological Sciences
B.M. Music Composition
http://www.brettgilio.com/


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Jacques Peron]

Linux, LilyPond, LuaLaTeX (and Gregorio for gregorian chant) here. To
integrate LilyPond into LaTeX, I developped lyluatex
.
​

2017-11-18 17:24 GMT+01:00 David Bellows :

> I use Linux, Lilypond, LuaLaTeX, and Csound, editing all of it in
> emacs. This does seem like a pretty potent or at least popular
> combination.
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Sam Bivens  wrote:
> > I'm also a Linux user. For notation I use LilyPond (with Frescobaldi)
> > exclusively, and for any serious writing I use LaTeX.
> >
> > Although I use the lilyglyphs package in LaTeX, I've never gotten around
> to
> > using lilypond-book; instead I just autocrop my Lily PDFs and insert
> those
> > as floats.
> >
> > A quick question for others: I've used LilyPond a couple times on Mac,
> and
> > the compile times were horrendous. Are the compile times on Linux faster
> > than on other operating systems? (Unfortunately I can't remember what
> Mac OS
> > I used...)
> >
> > Sam
> >
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[David Bellows]

I use Linux, Lilypond, LuaLaTeX, and Csound, editing all of it in
emacs. This does seem like a pretty potent or at least popular
combination.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Sam Bivens  wrote:
> I'm also a Linux user. For notation I use LilyPond (with Frescobaldi)
> exclusively, and for any serious writing I use LaTeX.
>
> Although I use the lilyglyphs package in LaTeX, I've never gotten around to
> using lilypond-book; instead I just autocrop my Lily PDFs and insert those
> as floats.
>
> A quick question for others: I've used LilyPond a couple times on Mac, and
> the compile times were horrendous. Are the compile times on Linux faster
> than on other operating systems? (Unfortunately I can't remember what Mac OS
> I used...)
>
> Sam
>
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Paul Scott]

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 04:59:27PM -0600, Brett M. Gilio wrote:
> How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
> you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
> graphical tools?

I've been using Linux since 2002 and LilyPond almost as long on Debian Sid.

I use Emacs and now Zathura and thousands of alt-tab's for creating
printed music.

I have used Latex and have had no need for Csound but I will look it up.

Paul

> 
> 
> BMG
> 
> -- 
> Brett M. Gilio
> B.S. Biological Sciences
> B.M. Music Composition
> http://www.brettgilio.com/
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Sam Bivens]

I'm also a Linux user. For notation I use LilyPond (with Frescobaldi) 
exclusively, and for any serious writing I use LaTeX.


Although I use the lilyglyphs package in LaTeX, I've never gotten around 
to using lilypond-book; instead I just autocrop my Lily PDFs and insert 
those as floats.


A quick question for others: I've used LilyPond a couple times on Mac, 
and the compile times were /horrendous/. Are the compile times on Linux 
faster than on other operating systems? (Unfortunately I can't remember 
what Mac OS I used...)


Sam
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 18.11.2017 um 15:59 schrieb Jan-Peter Voigt:

Hello,

Am 18.11.2017 um 15:44 schrieb Hwaen Ch'uqi:

However, when a mix of text and music is involved, I use LilyPond's
rather robust \markup and \markuplist commands, finding lilypond-book
to be too cumbersome or specific.
sometimes I typeset a preface text for a LilyPond document. I use a 
markup command that starts XeLaTeX to create a PDF, exports all pages 
into EPS-files with pdftops and then imports them as a markuplist. 
Sounds complicated, but is actually easy to use.


I assume this set-up doesn't have any notion of page breaks?
So it isn't possible to split the text blocks into multiple parts?.

It would be great if LIlyPond would know where *on the page* the markup 
block would start, That way it would be possible to pass that info to 
LaTeX (in the form of paper size and geometry info) and create one or 
multiple files with the typeset text, which would then just fit onto the 
remaining space on the score paper.


Urs



Jan-Peter


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Jan-Peter Voigt]

Hello,

Am 18.11.2017 um 15:44 schrieb Hwaen Ch'uqi:

However, when a mix of text and music is involved, I use LilyPond's
rather robust \markup and \markuplist commands, finding lilypond-book
to be too cumbersome or specific.
sometimes I typeset a preface text for a LilyPond document. I use a 
markup command that starts XeLaTeX to create a PDF, exports all pages 
into EPS-files with pdftops and then imports them as a markuplist. 
Sounds complicated, but is actually easy to use.


Jan-Peter


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[mskala]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, Brett M. Gilio wrote:
> How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
> you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
> graphical tools?

One here.  I'm not sure Csound qualifies as typesetting software, but I
use it often for synthesis, and LaTeX for typesetting.  I use Lilypond
(from the command line, usually invoked by a Makefile) for translating
between human and machine-readable music in both directions:  sometimes
I'll compose music in the form of a Lilypond file and use Lilypond to
convert it to MIDI which I can use with my hardware and software
synthesizers, and sometimes I write software that generates music in the
form of Lilypond files, which I engrave to make human-readable PDFs.  I do
pretty much of my computing in a Linux environment.

-- 
Matthew Skala
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles.
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Hwaen Ch'uqi]

Greetings Brett,

I am a Linux user through and through. I use LilyPond with Emacs. As
for LaTeX, I find it useful when authoring purely textual documents.
However, when a mix of text and music is involved, I use LilyPond's
rather robust \markup and \markuplist commands, finding lilypond-book
to be too cumbersome or specific. I have deep interest in csound, but
the manual seems to assume so much knowledge by the perspective user
from the outset that I have simply shyed away from it - which,
incidentally, is less a criticism of the csound   manual writers as it
is ringing praise of all who have contributed to LilyPond
documentation over the years!

Hwaen Ch'uqi


On 11/18/17, Urs Liska  wrote:
> Hi Brett,
>
>
> Am 17.11.2017 um 23:59 schrieb Brett M. Gilio:
>> How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community?
>
> Numbers are not available, for sure.
> As David pointed out you'll have less Linux users than you might expect.
> But you'll have substantially more Linux users than when asking
> Finale/Sibelius/Dorico users ...
>
>> Do any of
>> you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
>> graphical tools?
>
> As some have mentioned the use of LaTeX with LilyPond can be found.
> Maybe you'll find this interesting: http://lilypondblog.org/?s=latex
>
> Searching the blog for linux does give a few results, but I don't think
> anything specific is in these posts.
>
> Another aspect is version control which seems to be biased towards Linux
> users: http://lilypondblog.org/tag/version-control/
>
> In an earlier life I was involved in improvised electronic music using
> PureData and synthesizers. If I hadn't given that up completely I'd
> surely be using SuperCollider by now and would probably be using
> programming languages to generate PureData patches (or anything similar)
> and also generating scores from that environment using LilyPond and LaTeX.
>
> Urs
>
>>
>> BMG
>>
>
>
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Hi Brett,


Am 17.11.2017 um 23:59 schrieb Brett M. Gilio:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community?


Numbers are not available, for sure.
As David pointed out you'll have less Linux users than you might expect.
But you'll have substantially more Linux users than when asking 
Finale/Sibelius/Dorico users ...



Do any of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
graphical tools?


As some have mentioned the use of LaTeX with LilyPond can be found. 
Maybe you'll find this interesting: http://lilypondblog.org/?s=latex


Searching the blog for linux does give a few results, but I don't think 
anything specific is in these posts.


Another aspect is version control which seems to be biased towards Linux 
users: http://lilypondblog.org/tag/version-control/


In an earlier life I was involved in improvised electronic music using 
PureData and synthesizers. If I hadn't given that up completely I'd 
surely be using SuperCollider by now and would probably be using 
programming languages to generate PureData patches (or anything similar) 
and also generating scores from that environment using LilyPond and LaTeX.


Urs



BMG




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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Luca Rossetto Casel]

Il 17/11/2017 23:59, Brett M. Gilio ha scritto:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community?


Hi,

I work almost exclusively (when I'm not forced to use other systems...) 
on GNU/Linux. I moved from Windows to Ubuntu about ten yeras ago 
(phew!), and I used it until some month ago, when I switched to Manjaro 
Linux. I don't use LaTex or Csound... for now.


Luca

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Urs Liska]

Am 18. November 2017 14:26:10 MEZ schrieb David Kastrup :
>Andrew Bernard  writes:
>
>> Hi Brett,
>>
>> I use Linux for most of my work, and for all my lilypond work.
>>
>> What are you trying to establish, may I ask? A statistical survey of
>> platform usage? Or are you really asking about what graphical tools
>are
>> available? Your query seems to have multiple aspects.
>>
>> The Linux platform is strongly supported by the lilypond developers.
>>
>> I seem to rememver there was some sort of usage survey on the list a
>> couple of years ago.
>
>I think that most people used LilyPond with Windows, including some
>core
>developers (who use VMs for their development activities).  Somewhat
>sobering.  But certainly a good validation for the Gub setup allowing
>us
>to provide Windows binaries that are up-to-date.

Would it be worth setting up a survey post on lilypondblog.org?

-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[David Kastrup]

Andrew Bernard  writes:

> Hi Brett,
>
> I use Linux for most of my work, and for all my lilypond work.
>
> What are you trying to establish, may I ask? A statistical survey of
> platform usage? Or are you really asking about what graphical tools are
> available? Your query seems to have multiple aspects.
>
> The Linux platform is strongly supported by the lilypond developers.
>
> I seem to rememver there was some sort of usage survey on the list a
> couple of years ago.

I think that most people used LilyPond with Windows, including some core
developers (who use VMs for their development activities).  Somewhat
sobering.  But certainly a good validation for the Gub setup allowing us
to provide Windows binaries that are up-to-date.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[J Martin Rushton]

On 17/11/17 22:59, Brett M. Gilio wrote:
> How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
> you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
> graphical tools?
> 
> 
> BMG

I use Lilypond+Frescobaldi on CentOS at home and Lilypond on Wikipedia
pages.



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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Brett,

I use Linux for most of my work, and for all my lilypond work.

What are you trying to establish, may I ask? A statistical survey of
platform usage? Or are you really asking about what graphical tools are
available? Your query seems to have multiple aspects.

The Linux platform is strongly supported by the lilypond developers.

I seem to rememver there was some sort of usage survey on the list a couple
of years ago.

Andrew
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Ben]

On 11/17/2017 5:59 PM, Brett M. Gilio wrote:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
graphical tools?


BMG



Hi Brett,

I use LilyPond on a Linux Mint XFCE machine and I love it. I was a 
Windows user for many years and while I still use my Win10 box for some 
audio tasks occasionally (DAW), my engraving is 99.9% done on Mint. The 
exception being when someone needs me to submit a Finale file for a 
specific project.


I used Csound as an undergraduate but couldn't really wrap my head 
around it at the time. However, I did fall in love with Pure Data and I 
use that in my projects quite often. I use LaTeX and LilyPond only when 
writing documents or handouts for educational purposes.


What graphical tools did you mean, like GUI sound design programs - or 
programming...?



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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Jan-Peter Voigt]

Hi Brett,

I use Linux as the main operating system here and beside LilyPond I use 
LaTeX through Pandoc for text documents.
But for the LilyPond files I use Frescobaldi, which can display the 
result beside the source.


Cheers, Jan-Peter


Am 17.11.2017 um 23:59 schrieb Brett M. Gilio:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
graphical tools?


BMG




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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Blöchl Bernhard]

LaTex, Lyx and Csound are not Linux specific.
Concerning Latex, Latex uses/references to lilypond as one of the 
possible music writing tools

How to write music with LaTeX
https://martin-thoma.com/how-to-write-music-with-latex/

Indeed I think about using LaTex with Lilypond. the preprocessor called 
lilypond-book lets you mix LaTeX code with Lilypond code in one source 
file.

Sample usage: tsst.lytex contains this:

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
\begin[quote,fragment,staffsize=26]{lilypond}
c' d' e'
\end{lilypond}
\end{document}

I used that many years ago. I do not know if it still works. I found a 
link from 2013:

http://lilypondblog.org/2013/07/creating-songbooks-with-lilypond-and-latex/
If so it might be documented in the Manual? (I have I have not used 
LaTex since abou a decade. Actually I sometime use the much more 
comfortable Lyx http://www.lyx.org/ instead of Latex. I do not know how 
to use Lilypond seamlessly - would be necessary for large music texts. 
for smaller texts The Graphics from Lilypond-Book can be inserted.


One can embed Latex code into a Lyx document. I do not know if that 
Latex snippet above will work as insert code. If I find some time I will 
try. Indeed I plan a larger music project where this might be helpful. I 
Prefer the document processor Lyx over Latex.


I have not used  csound. But I bookmarked the link for score preparation 
for future investigation

http://strasheela.sourceforge.net/strasheela/doc/MusicRepresentation.html#sec8
and I found
https://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-user@gnu.org/msg36498.html

Regards





Am 18.11.2017 08:31, schrieb Jaime:

What do you mean by graphical tools?
J
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Brett M. Gilio  
wrote:


How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any 
of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather 
than

graphical tools?


BMG

--
Brett M. Gilio
B.S. Biological Sciences
B.M. Music Composition
http://www.brettgilio.com/


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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Jaime]

What do you mean by graphical tools?
J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 17, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Brett M. Gilio  wrote:
> 
> How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
> you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
> graphical tools?
> 
> 
> BMG
> 
> -- 
> Brett M. Gilio
> B.S. Biological Sciences
> B.M. Music Composition
> http://www.brettgilio.com/
> 
> 
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