Well, you've given me a lot to think about. I guess what I'll probably wind
up doing is comparing hardware specs and maintenance prices between the
mainframe and a high end PC server that we could build or buy. For now,
though, I guess I'll have to wait for the specs.
Andrew
-
Andrew Wiley wrote:
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 5:44 AM, John Summerfield <
deb...@herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
Okay, here is what I think.
Count the cost.
Do you get a full, working system? If not, there are extra costs for the
bits that are missing.
We're still trying to figure this out, ho
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 5:44 AM, John Summerfield <
deb...@herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
> Okay, here is what I think.
>
> Count the cost.
> Do you get a full, working system? If not, there are extra costs for the
> bits that are missing.
We're still trying to figure this out, hopefully we'll g
eld
> Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 6:44 AM
> Andrew Wiley wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:23 PM, John Summerfield <
> > deb...@herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
>
> >
Andrew Wiley wrote:
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:23 PM, John Summerfield <
deb...@herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
What kind of "terminal" equipment will they be using?
Students would access their VM's through SSH.
3. What would they be doing?
Each VM will probably have a webserver hosting
Andrew Wiley wrote:
There's also the benefit of exposing students to the idea that mainframes
are still alive and useful (most textbooks these days cite mainframes as an
example of obselete technology that existed before PC's, unfortunately),
and, if possible, it would let me offer mainframe prog
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:23 PM, John Summerfield <
deb...@herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
> Andrew Wiley wrote:
>
>
>>
>>> Some questions:
>>> 1. How many users do you anticipate?
>>>
>>
>>
>> I know that I expect to run, at most, about 20 VM's. That number may rise
>> in
>> the coming years, but
Andrew Wiley wrote:
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 7:21 PM, John Summerfield <
deb...@herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
Andrew Wiley wrote:
Secondly, if I couldn't get VM with the mainframe (which is looking pretty
likely), would it be better to run separate LPAR's of linux, a single LPAR
of linux wit
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 7:21 PM, John Summerfield <
deb...@herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:
> Andrew Wiley wrote:
>
>
>> Secondly, if I couldn't get VM with the mainframe (which is looking pretty
>> likely), would it be better to run separate LPAR's of linux, a single LPAR
>> of linux with linux-vse
Andrew Wiley wrote:
Secondly, if I couldn't get VM with the mainframe (which is looking pretty
likely), would it be better to run separate LPAR's of linux, a single LPAR
of linux with linux-vserver (http://linux-vserver.org/), or a combination of
both?
That would need some testing:
http://lin
First off, I know what an LPAR is, but what benefits are provided by VM
that make it preferable over LPAR's? I would guess that VM can share
resources more efficiently, but from what I'm reading, LPAR's are
supposed to be able to dynamically share resources as well? I'm sure
there must be a clear
I haven't gotten a response, but I've been doing more research, and I've
managed to come up with more questions.
First off, I know what an LPAR is, but what benefits are provided by VM that
make it preferable over LPAR's? I would guess that VM can share resources
more efficiently, but from what I'm
You are quite right that they have made their choice, but, as I say,
it is immaterial which path they choose. M$ Office cannot continue to
dominate that market when there are serious, inter-operable products
available with a totally Free license at no cost. Especially with
everybody looking to tr
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> On Mar 23, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Andrew Wiley wrote:
>
> Okay, you've given me a lot to consider.
>> My first question is about Linux/390. I'm an avid linux user and I
>> assumed
>> from my experiences that the difference in underlying platforms
Erik writes:
> ... Right now Microsoft has a choice. Rework M$
> Office such that it will happily and effectively inter-operate with
> other office productivity suites, or stop selling M$ Office in Europe.
> Difficult decision, since an inter-operable M$ Office is an M$ Office
> your company can
On Mar 23, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Andrew Wiley wrote:
Okay, you've given me a lot to consider.
My first question is about Linux/390. I'm an avid linux user and I
assumed
from my experiences that the difference in underlying platforms is
handled
entirely by the kernel; userspace programs, with only a
Okay, you've given me a lot to consider.
My first question is about Linux/390. I'm an avid linux user and I assumed
from my experiences that the difference in underlying platforms is handled
entirely by the kernel; userspace programs, with only a few exceptions,
compile and operate similarly no mat
On Mar 23, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Erik N Johnson wrote:
Microsoft doesn't know how to write software for professionals. Their
best stuff has always been targeted at people who want their computer
as easy to use (and as functional) as a toaster oven.
Unfortunately Mac OS X does the ease of use thing
, Jim
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:21 PM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
>
>
> "It's just a PC we can buy another, you know PCs are cheap. Hell they
> are running Windows we can just hire college grads that will save u
: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
"It's just a PC we can buy another, you know PCs are cheap. Hell they
are running Windows we can just hire college grads that will save us a
bundle of money on staff. As for reliability everyone else is buying one
do you think that if it didn't
400 East Main Street
Frankfort, Ky 40601
502 597 6114
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
Henry E Schaffer
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:03 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
Dodds, Jim wrote:
Dodds, Jim wrote:
> ... So now we are planning on spending close to $200,000 on Dell
> hardware and Microsoft server software. ...
Has any looked at reliability? Some hardware/sofware combinations are
boringly reliable, some not so. Does anyone care?
--henry schaffer
---
The electrical bill isn't worth the box.
You can buy a used MP3000 with integrated dasd for a few thousand. And it uses
way less power.
Of course, the licensing issues still remain.
Multiprise 3000--Dollars
--
7060-H30$3,800
7060-H50$4,300
7060-H70--
Chase, John wrote:
It may or may not be feasible to try to "educate" your legislators. If
KY is anything like IL, the mantra seems to be, "The more money we spend
per student, the better the education they will get." I.e., "education"
is _THE_ sacred cow.
Similar thinking here. I work part
-Andrew Wiley wrote: -
>I'm trying to research the usefulness of an older IBM mainframe in a
>computer science class. The mainframe in question is an IBM 9672 RB6,
>which, as I understand it, was first sold in 1998. So it's reasonably
>old. Would this machine be able to run a few VM's of l
That SUN Solaris could become IBM Solaris if the deal goes through.
Mark T. Regan, K8MTR
CTO1 USNR-Retired (1969-1991)
- Original Message
From: Joe O'Brien
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:02:02 AM
Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
Amaz
East Main Street
> Frankfort, Ky 40601
> 502 597 6114
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Erik N
> Johnson
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:53 AM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: O
597 6114
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
> Joe O'Brien
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:02 AM
> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
>
> Amazingly,a consi
2 597 6114
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
Chase, John
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:47 AM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port O
> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of Dodds, Jim
>
> Yes you are on the same ERP system we have because I have talked to
your
> school in the past. It's funny that we were going to join Marist, who
> has IBM assisting in this venture, to get the new ERP system to run
ntucky State University 400 East Main
Street Frankfort,
> Ky 40601 502 597 6114
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port
[mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On
> Behalf Of Erik N Johnson Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:53 AM To:
> LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Old
ssage-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
Joe O'Brien
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:02 AM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
Amazingly,a consistent story. The same has happened here as we are going
from an IBM environmen
1 502 597 6114
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port
[mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On
Behalf Of Erik N Johnson Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:53 AM To:
LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
It is very true, however, that you can run several LPARs
ssage-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Erik N
Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:53 AM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
It is very true, however, that you can run several LPARs with
Linux/390 on them. Also, M
stems Programmer
Kentucky State University
400 East Main Street
Frankfort, Ky 40601
502 597 6114
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Erik N
Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:53 AM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Old IBM Main
ginal Message --
Received: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 07:53:19 PM COT
From: Andrew Wiley
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Old IBM Mainframe - Still Useful?
> I'm trying to research the usefulness of an older IBM mainframe in a
> computer science class. The mainframe in question is an IBM 9672 RB
It is very true, however, that you can run several LPARs with
Linux/390 on them. Also, MVS is available for free nowadays, as well
as several other major components that run on the pre-Z
360-derivatives. So although you won't be able to teach your kids VM
you CAN show them what IBM big iron can d
Andrew Wiley wrote:
Andrew,
Unless you already have a release of VM on this hardware, you can't get
a VM that will run on this hardware anymore. So you are pretty much out
of luck.
IBM does have an academic initiative which provides incentives for
higher education on System z:
Well, this
On Sunday, 03/22/2009 at 11:31 EDT, Andrew Wiley
wrote:
> I'm not familiar with IBM's licenses, but I assume that if the license
can't
> be transferred, it can't be sold either? Is there any way to get a
license?
The only way I know of to get a z/VM V4 license is by a transfer of an
existing lic
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Alan Altmark wrote:
> On Sunday, 03/22/2009 at 11:02 EDT, Andrew Wiley
> wrote:
>
> > However, the machine I'm investigating is being offered by a local
> > business that's decommissioning it, and I can ask if they plan to
> > include VM.
>
> There are rules gove
On Sunday, 03/22/2009 at 11:02 EDT, Andrew Wiley
wrote:
> However, the machine I'm investigating is being offered by a local
> business that's decommissioning it, and I can ask if they plan to
> include VM.
There are rules governing the transfer of software to someone else and it
depends on what
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Rich Smrcina wrote:
> Andrew Wiley wrote:
>
>> Well, this is a high school computer science course, so we don't have
>> much budget and, quite frankly, we aren't a priority in... anything.
>>
>> However, the machine I'm investigating is being offered by a local
>
Andrew Wiley wrote:
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Unless you already have a release of VM on this hardware, you can't get
>> a VM that will run on this hardware anymore. So you are pretty much out
>> of luck.
>>
>>
>
>
>> IBM does have an academic initiative which provides incentives for
>> higher education on
Andrew Wiley wrote:
Well, this is a high school computer science course, so we don't have
much budget and, quite frankly, we aren't a priority in... anything.
However, the machine I'm investigating is being offered by a local
business that's decommissioning it, and I can ask if they plan to
incl
> Andrew,
>
> Unless you already have a release of VM on this hardware, you can't get
> a VM that will run on this hardware anymore. So you are pretty much out
> of luck.
>
> IBM does have an academic initiative which provides incentives for
> higher education on System z:
Well, this is a high s
Andrew Wiley wrote:
I'm trying to research the usefulness of an older IBM mainframe in a
computer science class. The mainframe in question is an IBM 9672 RB6, which,
as I understand it, was first sold in 1998. So it's reasonably old.
Would this machine be able to run a few VM's of linux, or is it
I'm trying to research the usefulness of an older IBM mainframe in a
computer science class. The mainframe in question is an IBM 9672 RB6, which,
as I understand it, was first sold in 1998. So it's reasonably old.
Would this machine be able to run a few VM's of linux, or is it too old, or
would it
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