Re: Help ! /lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0: file too short

[borissh1983]

On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 9:36:33 IST Aharon Schkolnik wrote:
> Pretty sure was corrupted file system (maybe connected to electrical
> issues).
> 
> Managed to save /home.
> 
> Reinstalled Fedora.
> 
> Long night.
> 
> Most everything seems to be working.
> 
> Only issue so far is that GRUB doesn't find my Windows installation.
> 

does osprober able to find it ? if not , perhaps that fs had been also 
corrupted, you may be able to fix it via 

ntfsfix /dev/xxx
and then mount -o remove_hibernatefile -t ntfs-3g /dev/xxx

I strongly recommend you to check your smart logs.




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Re: Help ! /lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0: file too short

[Aharon Schkolnik]

Pretty sure was corrupted file system (maybe connected to electrical
issues).

Managed to save /home.

Reinstalled Fedora.

Long night.

Most everything seems to be working.

Only issue so far is that GRUB doesn't find my Windows installation.

Thanks for the help.



On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 at 08:59,  wrote:

> On Tuesday, 28 February 2023 18:09:53 IST Aharon Schkolnik wrote:
> > Don't know what happened, but my system fails to boot with the above
> error
> > message.
> >
> > I am clueless.
> >
> > Anyone have any ideas?
> >
>
> You got  either a bad installation ,  corrupted package, corrupted
> filesystem or hardware error.
>
> What you can and should do , disconnect the drive and rescue all what you
> can by copying the data out.
> chroot to it , and reinstall libglib2.0-0. hopefully it was just a flash
> error (and not a hardware error).
>
>
>
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Re: Help ! /lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0: file too short

[borissh1983]

On Tuesday, 28 February 2023 18:09:53 IST Aharon Schkolnik wrote:
> Don't know what happened, but my system fails to boot with the above error
> message.
> 
> I am clueless.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?
> 

You got  either a bad installation ,  corrupted package, corrupted filesystem 
or hardware error.

What you can and should do , disconnect the drive and rescue all what you can 
by copying the data out.
chroot to it , and reinstall libglib2.0-0. hopefully it was just a flash error 
(and not a hardware error).



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Re: Help ! /lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0: file too short

[Dotan Shavit]

Try to boot from USB, mount the disk and check / replace the file.

בברכה,
דותן שביט,
0544-456656


On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 at 18:10, Aharon Schkolnik  wrote:

>
> Don't know what happened, but my system fails to boot with the above error
> message.
>
> I am clueless.
>
> Anyone have any ideas?
>
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Re: Help in installing Linux and MySQL

[Omer Zak]

Hello Meir,

Before taking your money, let's try some free help.

Since modern Linux distributions support installation of Linux+MySQL
out of the box in reasonably standard hardware, could you tell us about
your environment and whether there is anything nonstandard in it:
1. Which Linux distribution?
2. Anything special with your hardware?
3. Any other OSes that need to be supported? To work with the same
MySQL databases? (I suspect there are such because you mention Grub.)

--- Omer Zak


On Fri, 2022-01-21 at 20:20 +0200, Meir Guttman wrote:
> Hi Everyone!
> 
> I am looking for such (paid) help since I encountered problems in
> installing such!
> The idea is to come over to my place (Or-Aqiva) and do it on
> premises.
> Knowledge of Grub 2.0 is also required...
> Best regards,
> Meir Guttman
> Cell. +972-54-526 2264
-- 
"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by
looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it
possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." - Walter E.
Williams
My own blog is at https://tddpirate.zak.co.il/

My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone.
They do not represent the official policy of any organization with
which I may be affiliated in any way.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at https://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html




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Re: Help configuring Multiboot from ISOs

[E.S. Rosenberg]

2017-06-08 11:44 GMT+03:00 E.S. Rosenberg :
> 2017-06-08 9:35 GMT+03:00 Amichai Rotman :
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am trying to set up a desktop kiosk-style computer at my local Library,
>> based on Ubuntu.
>>
>> My idea is to have a regular desktop mainly  for browsing the Web, but I
>> would also like it to be able to reboot into an ISO by clicking an icon on
>> the Launcher.
> Why? In what way does this help your user?
>>
>> I specifically would like to use the Linux Gamers.net [1] and another ISO
>> compressed as squashfs and using syslinux to boot.
You realize their distro hasn't been updated in over 6 years?
>>
>> I am having trouble configuring the GRUB2 menu
>>
>> entries to boot these as ISOs and I have no idea how to create a launcher to
>> boot the computer to the ISOs.
>>
>> The computer isn't strong enough for a VM...
>>
>> [1] http://live.linux-gamers.net
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Amichai
>>
>>
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>>

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Re: Help configuring Multiboot from ISOs

[E.S. Rosenberg]

2017-06-08 9:35 GMT+03:00 Amichai Rotman :
> Hello all,
>
> I am trying to set up a desktop kiosk-style computer at my local Library,
> based on Ubuntu.
>
> My idea is to have a regular desktop mainly  for browsing the Web, but I
> would also like it to be able to reboot into an ISO by clicking an icon on
> the Launcher.
Why? In what way does this help your user?
>
> I specifically would like to use the Linux Gamers.net [1] and another ISO
> compressed as squashfs and using syslinux to boot.
>
> I am having trouble configuring the GRUB2 menu
>
> entries to boot these as ISOs and I have no idea how to create a launcher to
> boot the computer to the ISOs.
>
> The computer isn't strong enough for a VM...
>
> [1] http://live.linux-gamers.net
>
> Thank you,
>
> Amichai
>
>
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Re: Help configuring Multiboot from ISOs

[Rabin Yasharzadehe]

my 2c for this thread,

- when I created my multi-boot USB I had to defrag the ISO after copying
them to the USB, other wise the ISO won't boot properly.
- I used a simple tool like -
https://www.pendrivelinux.com/tag/multiboot-iso/ to create the inital menu
, and extended it manually.

--
Rabin

On 8 June 2017 at 09:35, Amichai Rotman  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I am trying to set up a desktop kiosk-style computer at my local Library,
> based on Ubuntu.
>
> My idea is to have a regular desktop mainly  for browsing the Web, but I
> would also like it to be able to reboot into an ISO by clicking an icon on
> the Launcher.
>
> I specifically would like to use the Linux Gamers.net [1] and another ISO
> compressed as squashfs and using syslinux to boot.
>
> I am having trouble configuring the GRUB2 menu
> ​ ​
> entries to boot these as ISOs and I have no idea how to create a launcher
> to boot the computer to the ISOs.
>
> The computer isn't strong enough for a VM...
>
> [1] http://live.linux-gamers.net
>
> Thank you,
>
> Amichai
>
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>
>
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Re: Help: OpenLdap bindRequest with NTLM authentication makes mailformed message.

[Lev Olshvang]

Hi Oleg and Shimi.

I did not describe problem correctly.

This is not Linux sysadm problem.
I am fixing application  running on Debian,

I will take Oleg's advice to see cntlm source.

Today I was surprised by ldapsearch  utility ( package ldap-utils) which 
reports that are several authentication mechanism available on AD server,

like GSS-API, KERBEROS, OTP
but it did not listed  NTLM  !!!


on the other hand I see that  ad browser from sysinternals  suite for  
windows  do use NTLM ( wireshark sees it)



So I am confused now :
Can linux use NTLM as some backdoor method, or only windows can use it?

Perhaps NTLM plugin of openldap library is usable only on LDAP server to 
authenticate windows clients?



L.


On 04/03/2015 00:12, shimi wrote:


On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:20 PM, Lev Olshvang lols...@012.net.il 
mailto:lols...@012.net.il wrote:



Hello Alll,


Does anybody have example or can advice how to perform NTLM
authentication of Linux client toward Microsoft AD service?


I calledd ldap_ntlm_bind() to do the Job, but
Wireshark can not fully recognize these message and prints
mailformed

And following
ldap_parse_ntlm_bind_result() returns with Authentication error.


Unfortunately these functions are not documented, perhaps I pass
wrong parameters.


Actually I pass
ldap_ntlm_bind(ld, dn, LDAP_AUTH_NTLM_REQUEST, cred, NULL, NULL,
msgidp);
I put password in cred structure and user parameter as part of dn
string,
like user=NTDOMAIN\lev, cn=myhost,dn=com


Many thanks and Hag Sameah,


Tried already the 'regular' way 
(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryWinbindHowto) and 
saw if that works? Maybe the issue is not with your code...


Not that I am sure what are you trying to do beyond just 
authenticating (if it's just login or similar, why really not with 
winbind through PAM?) - maybe I got it all wrong :-)


IIRC, to use LDAP towards an AD server, it must be a GlobalCatalog - 
you should make sure that is the case (as well as the right port for 
the job, whether encryption is used or not, etc etc.). But this is 
ancient history, so I hope I am not misleading you.


-- Shimi




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Re: Help: OpenLdap bindRequest with NTLM authentication makes mailformed message.

[Oleg Goldshmidt]

Lev Olshvang lols...@012.net.il writes:

 Does anybody have example or can advice how to perform NTLM
 authentication of Linux client toward Microsoft AD service?

Eh, I know of cntlm proxy - is that an option? If not, maybe looking at
its code will help to some extent? 

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org

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Re: Help recreating bug report in proxy library

[Elazar Leibovich]

Oh, and before anyone ask, certificate pinning is probably irrelevant for
user added certificates
https://www.imperialviolet.org/2011/05/04/pinning.html

*What about MITM proxies, Fiddler etc?*

There are a number of cases where HTTPS connections are intercepted by
using local, ephemeral certificates. These certificates are signed by a
root certificate that has to be manually installed on the client. Corporate
MITM proxies may do this, several anti-virus/parental control products do
this and debugging tools like Fiddler can also do this. Since we cannot
break in these situations, user installed root CAs are given the authority
to override pins. We don't believe that there will be any incompatibility
issues.


On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm maintaining a small HTTP proxy library that allows you to eavesdrop
 HTTP requests. Someone reported a bug which I cannot recreate, so I'm
 trying my luck here. [repost from golang-nuts, where I didn't get an
 answer].

 It seems to work on my machine, but a user still complain.
 https://github.com/elazarl/goproxy/issues/15

 I could use two forms of help:

 1) Test it on your environment and report the results.

 $ mkdir ~/gopath2
 $ GOPATH=~/gopath2 go get github.com/elazarl/goproxy/examples/eavesdropper
 $ # add ~/gopath2/src/github.com/elazarl/goproxy/ca.cert as a root CA to
 your browser
 $ ~/gopath2/bin/eavesdropper
 # use HTTP proxy at localhost:8080, browse to a https site, and see if you
 get warnings

  2) Generally speaking, I don't really know too much cryptography in
 general, or TLS/SSL in particular. If you do, have a look at the code and
 explain my mistakes.
 Most of the logic is here:
 https://github.com/elazarl/goproxy/blob/master/signer.go

 The way it does that is:
 1) goproxy have a builtin CA certificate, hard coded into a variable. It's
 generated with http://golang.org/src/pkg/crypto/tls/generate_cert.go
 2) Given a CONNECT foo.com:443 proxy request, it would:
 3) Generate a certificate for foo.com and sign it with the builtin CA,
 4) Submit this certificate with the certificate chain: [new_cert, CA],
 using crypto/tls package.

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Re: Help wanted

[vordoo]

  
  
On 2013-06-02 13:14, Ori Idan wrote:

  

  

  

  Hello,

  
  One of my customers is doing Automatic Test Equipment
  for Electronic boards.

Currently most of the tests are written using Linux and
perl.
  

  

  

So you are looking for a 30 years Perl programmer with vast
experience in embedded devices? OR what :-)

  

  

  
  
  I need someone to help me and take over my position there.

  

  

Which is...?
  


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Re: help with conserver

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 01:27:35AM -0400, Ido Admon wrote:

 oh just doing everything in the most convoluted way possible :) the
 idea was to have a shell session that's always on, so to speak, but i
 guess nohup can help with that somewhat. you're right, of course, in
 saying that being dependent on the network makes the whole idea
 pointless. thanks for clarifying things for me!

'screen /dev/ttyS0 115200' on the remote side? (ttyS0? ttyUSB0?
serial/by-id/whatever?)

RTFM screen to make it detach on startup, add logging and whatever.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
tzaf...@debian.org|| friend

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Re: help with conserver

[shimi]

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:19 AM, Ido Admon ido...@gmail.com wrote:

 dear linux-il folks,
 i thought i might try here before the conserver mailing list. i have a
 nice little setup of a soekris net4801
 (http://soekris.com/products/net4801.html) that serves (with a
 minimal debian and mpd) as a music box. the only way to communicate with
 it other than networking (wlan or ethernet) is the serial console.
 now,occasionally, i want to access the console without hooking up the
 serial cable, because i'm lazy. i found conserver
 (http://www.conserver.com), which is supposed to do just that - allow
 remote access to the actual console device. the problem is it doesn't
 work for me for whatever reason. i'm able to connect to the server,
 attach to the console, but then it freezes and i can do nothing except
 use the escape sequence to quit.
 if i'm already connected at the same time to the console with the
 cable (of course it can't really work together, this is just for
 testing), i can actually see characters being sent to the console, but
 with no apparent response, as if it's just displayed instead of being
 taken as commands.



But is the console actually 'listening' ?

I mean, do you have [a]getty running and everything? (see
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-setup-serial-console-on-debian-linux/)

I would assume that it is, because from your wording, I understand that
sometimes you do use the physical serial connection with success... but I
have to ask.

The next question would of course be if conserver console was set to type
'device' and the device path was set to the device file name of a serial
console listening with the aforementioned getty ? And the buadrate,
start/stop bit, parity, all match to what has been set on getty?

-- Shimi
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Re: help with conserver

[Ido Admon]

It was a peachy Monday, May 20 2013, 06:02:58 when shimi
linux...@shimi.net wrote:

 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:19 AM, Ido Admon ido...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  dear linux-il folks,
  i thought i might try here before the conserver mailing list. i
  have a nice little setup of a soekris net4801
  (http://soekris.com/products/net4801.html) that serves (with a
  minimal debian and mpd) as a music box. the only way to communicate
  with it other than networking (wlan or ethernet) is the serial
  console. now,occasionally, i want to access the console without
  hooking up the serial cable, because i'm lazy. i found conserver
  (http://www.conserver.com), which is supposed to do just that -
  allow remote access to the actual console device. the problem is it
  doesn't work for me for whatever reason. i'm able to connect to the
  server, attach to the console, but then it freezes and i can do
  nothing except use the escape sequence to quit.
  if i'm already connected at the same time to the console with the
  cable (of course it can't really work together, this is just for
  testing), i can actually see characters being sent to the console,
  but with no apparent response, as if it's just displayed instead of
  being taken as commands.
 
 
 
 But is the console actually 'listening' ?
 
 I mean, do you have [a]getty running and everything? (see
 http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-setup-serial-console-on-debian-linux/)
 
 I would assume that it is, because from your wording, I understand
 that sometimes you do use the physical serial connection with
 success... but I have to ask.
 
 The next question would of course be if conserver console was set to
 type 'device' and the device path was set to the device file name of
 a serial console listening with the aforementioned getty ? And the
 buadrate, start/stop bit, parity, all match to what has been set on
 getty?
 
 -- Shimi


hi shimi, thanks. yes, i'm sorry if i wasn't clear enough. the console
is working flawlessly when physically connected. here's my conserver.cf
(192.168.43.168 is my laptop):

root@krzysztof:~# cat /etc/conserver/conserver.cf
# The character '' in logfile names are substituted with the console
# name.
#
config * {
}

default * {
logfile /var/log/conserver/.log;
timestamp ;
rw *;
}

console serial {
master localhost;
type device;
device /dev/ttyS0;
baud 19200;
parity none;
}

access * {
trusted 192.168.43.168;
trusted 127.0.0.1;
}



and the relevant line in inittab:

root@krzysztof:~# grep ttyS0 /etc/inittab 
T0:23:respawn:/sbin/getty -L ttyS0 19200 vt100

and what setserial says:

root@krzysztof:~# setserial /dev/ttyS0
/dev/ttyS0, UART: 16550A, Port: 0x03f8, IRQ: 4


thanks again!
ido

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Re: help with conserver

[Ido Admon]

It was a peachy Monday, May 20 2013, 00:14:42 when Ido Admon
ido...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
 It was a peachy Monday, May 20 2013, 06:02:58 when shimi
 linux...@shimi.net wrote:
 
  On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:19 AM, Ido Admon ido...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   dear linux-il folks,
   i thought i might try here before the conserver mailing list. i
   have a nice little setup of a soekris net4801
   (http://soekris.com/products/net4801.html) that serves (with a
   minimal debian and mpd) as a music box. the only way to
   communicate with it other than networking (wlan or ethernet) is
   the serial console. now,occasionally, i want to access the
   console without hooking up the serial cable, because i'm lazy. i
   found conserver (http://www.conserver.com), which is supposed to
   do just that - allow remote access to the actual console device.
   the problem is it doesn't work for me for whatever reason. i'm
   able to connect to the server, attach to the console, but then it
   freezes and i can do nothing except use the escape sequence to
   quit. if i'm already connected at the same time to the console
   with the cable (of course it can't really work together, this is
   just for testing), i can actually see characters being sent to
   the console, but with no apparent response, as if it's just
   displayed instead of being taken as commands.
  
  
  
  But is the console actually 'listening' ?
  
  I mean, do you have [a]getty running and everything? (see
  http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-setup-serial-console-on-debian-linux/)
  
  I would assume that it is, because from your wording, I understand
  that sometimes you do use the physical serial connection with
  success... but I have to ask.
  
  The next question would of course be if conserver console was set to
  type 'device' and the device path was set to the device file name of
  a serial console listening with the aforementioned getty ? And the
  buadrate, start/stop bit, parity, all match to what has been set on
  getty?
  
  -- Shimi
 
 
 hi shimi, thanks. yes, i'm sorry if i wasn't clear enough. the console
 is working flawlessly when physically connected. here's my
 conserver.cf (192.168.43.168 is my laptop):
 
 root@krzysztof:~# cat /etc/conserver/conserver.cf
 # The character '' in logfile names are substituted with the console
 # name.
 #
 config * {
 }
 
 default * {
 logfile /var/log/conserver/.log;
 timestamp ;
 rw *;
 }
 
 console serial {
 master localhost;
 type device;
   device /dev/ttyS0;
 baud 19200;
 parity none;
 }
 
 access * {
 trusted 192.168.43.168;
 trusted 127.0.0.1;
 }
 
 
 
 and the relevant line in inittab:
 
 root@krzysztof:~# grep ttyS0 /etc/inittab 
 T0:23:respawn:/sbin/getty -L ttyS0 19200 vt100
 
 and what setserial says:
 
 root@krzysztof:~# setserial /dev/ttyS0
 /dev/ttyS0, UART: 16550A, Port: 0x03f8, IRQ: 4
 
 
 thanks again!
 ido

ok, i'm an idiot. of course /dev/ttyS0 is not the console itself but the
serial device. that's not going to work. but /dev/console doesn't work
either, and it seems that conserver can't actually do what i want,
which is to access the local console, not some other server connected
via the serial port. i'm not sure how, if at all, it can be done.

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Re: help with conserver

[shimi]

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Ido Admon ido...@gmail.com wrote:


 
  hi shimi, thanks. yes, i'm sorry if i wasn't clear enough. the console
  is working flawlessly when physically connected. here's my
  conserver.cf (192.168.43.168 is my laptop):
 
  root@krzysztof:~# cat /etc/conserver/conserver.cf
  # The character '' in logfile names are substituted with the console
  # name.
  #
  config * {
  }
 
  default * {
  logfile /var/log/conserver/.log;
  timestamp ;
  rw *;
  }
 
  console serial {
  master localhost;
  type device;
device /dev/ttyS0;
  baud 19200;
  parity none;
  }
 
  access * {
  trusted 192.168.43.168;
  trusted 127.0.0.1;
  }
 
 
 
  and the relevant line in inittab:
 
  root@krzysztof:~# grep ttyS0 /etc/inittab
  T0:23:respawn:/sbin/getty -L ttyS0 19200 vt100
 
  and what setserial says:
 
  root@krzysztof:~# setserial /dev/ttyS0
  /dev/ttyS0, UART: 16550A, Port: 0x03f8, IRQ: 4
 
 
  thanks again!
  ido

 ok, i'm an idiot. of course /dev/ttyS0 is not the console itself but the
 serial device. that's not going to work. but /dev/console doesn't work
 either, and it seems that conserver can't actually do what i want,
 which is to access the local console, not some other server connected
 via the serial port. i'm not sure how, if at all, it can be done.



Truth to be told, I really did wonder how this is supposed to work (I never
used conserver; What you're trying to do is typically done in the IT world
by devices like this:
http://www.perle.com/products/IOLAN-DS-Terminal-Server.shtml ... usually
with 16 ports and beyond...) - but I assumed you researched this and found
that it's supposed work :)

I have to wonder, what is so special on the serial console that you want to
specifically use it? I mean, if you have to go over IP anyways, what does
it matter if it's 'serial' or not? The usual advantage of serial (IMHO) is
being out-of-band and not dependent on the machine's networking
configuration, which is not the case here, obviously. The other is maybe
the output of kernel messages (but that goes into files, or even to remote
machines if set up correctly).

Maybe you don't want the SSH encryption overhead? You could run telnetd
instead... or conserver can be used with 'exec' instead of 'device' if you
want the parallel connections feature.

So, what is the purpose? :)

-- Shimi
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Re: help with conserver

[Ido Admon]

It was a peachy Monday, May 20 2013, 07:52:21 when shimi
linux...@shimi.net wrote:

 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Ido Admon ido...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
  
   hi shimi, thanks. yes, i'm sorry if i wasn't clear enough. the
   console is working flawlessly when physically connected. here's my
   conserver.cf (192.168.43.168 is my laptop):
  
   root@krzysztof:~# cat /etc/conserver/conserver.cf
   # The character '' in logfile names are substituted with the
   console # name.
   #
   config * {
   }
  
   default * {
   logfile /var/log/conserver/.log;
   timestamp ;
   rw *;
   }
  
   console serial {
   master localhost;
   type device;
 device /dev/ttyS0;
   baud 19200;
   parity none;
   }
  
   access * {
   trusted 192.168.43.168;
   trusted 127.0.0.1;
   }
  
  
  
   and the relevant line in inittab:
  
   root@krzysztof:~# grep ttyS0 /etc/inittab
   T0:23:respawn:/sbin/getty -L ttyS0 19200 vt100
  
   and what setserial says:
  
   root@krzysztof:~# setserial /dev/ttyS0
   /dev/ttyS0, UART: 16550A, Port: 0x03f8, IRQ: 4
  
  
   thanks again!
   ido
 
  ok, i'm an idiot. of course /dev/ttyS0 is not the console itself
  but the serial device. that's not going to work. but /dev/console
  doesn't work either, and it seems that conserver can't actually do
  what i want, which is to access the local console, not some other
  server connected via the serial port. i'm not sure how, if at all,
  it can be done.
 
 
 
 Truth to be told, I really did wonder how this is supposed to work (I
 never used conserver; What you're trying to do is typically done in
 the IT world by devices like this:
 http://www.perle.com/products/IOLAN-DS-Terminal-Server.shtml ...
 usually with 16 ports and beyond...) - but I assumed you researched
 this and found that it's supposed work :)
 
 I have to wonder, what is so special on the serial console that you
 want to specifically use it? I mean, if you have to go over IP
 anyways, what does it matter if it's 'serial' or not? The usual
 advantage of serial (IMHO) is being out-of-band and not dependent on
 the machine's networking configuration, which is not the case here,
 obviously. The other is maybe the output of kernel messages (but that
 goes into files, or even to remote machines if set up correctly).
 
 Maybe you don't want the SSH encryption overhead? You could run
 telnetd instead... or conserver can be used with 'exec' instead of
 'device' if you want the parallel connections feature.
 
 So, what is the purpose? :)
 
 -- Shimi

oh just doing everything in the most convoluted way possible :) the
idea was to have a shell session that's always on, so to speak, but i
guess nohup can help with that somewhat. you're right, of course, in
saying that being dependent on the network makes the whole idea
pointless. thanks for clarifying things for me!

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RE: help with ls command

[Camelia Botez]

I’m performing the ls command from an ssh sessions from another linux computer.
The MTU was 1500 and I changed it to 1300 but the problem  persists.

From: sh...@shimi.net [mailto:sh...@shimi.net] On Behalf Of shimi
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:05 AM
To: Camelia Botez
Subject: Fwd: help with ls command

Hi Camelia - did you notice the mail below? I did not see a reply from you 
regarding that...
-- Forwarded message --
From: shimi linux...@shimi.netmailto:linux...@shimi.net
Date: Tue, May 1, 2012 at 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: help with ls command
To: Camelia Botez 
camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.ilmailto:camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.il
Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.ilmailto:linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il 
linux-il@cs.huji.ac.ilmailto:linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il


On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Camelia Botez 
camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.ilmailto:camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.il wrote:
I’m talkibg about /usr/local/src that is on /dev/sda2 under / and indeed it is 
the partition I ran fsck.
In other directories ls works fine.
Yes the shell does manage to read the directory contents , but in one 
subdirectory containing no more than 24 files ls –ltr gets stuck.
No the ls command is not in D state (if I’m not mistaking its state is S).


Follow up question, then:

Are you performing those operations over network? (and especially - over 
VPN/WAN/Tunnel)? If so, what you're describing sounds like the output packet 
sizes may be too large for your path's MTU. If you take the network interface 
you're coming through MTU and reduce it, to, let's say, 1300, does the problem 
persist? (/sbin/ifconfig eth0 mtu 1300)

-- Shimi

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Re: help with ls command

[Baruch Siach]

Hi Camelia,

On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 10:59:42AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
 I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.
 Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on which ls 
 command gets stuck.
 I don't get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command - I only can 
 close the window.
 I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn't help I ran manually  
 fsck.
 No improvement.
 Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?

Please provide the output of the following command:

strace ls

If you don't have 'strace' on your servers, just install the strace package 
with 'yum install strace'.

baruch

-- 
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=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
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Re: help with ls command

[shimi]

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Camelia Botez
camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.ilwrote:

  I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.

 Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on which
 ls command gets stuck.

 I don’t get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command – I only can
 close the window.

 I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn’t help I ran
 manually  fsck.

 No improvement.

 Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?





Things I can think of...

Anything on dmesg when this happens?

Did you verify that those directories are indeed on the volume you fsck'd ?
(and not a network share, etc.)

Are those 'stock' directories (part of the install) or something you've
added? If stock, what's the path? (to know if it's a special one,
augmenting the previous question)

Is the problem with actual listing, or 'ls' itself? Did you try, for
example, cat /path/to/dir/ tab tab to see if the shell does manage to
read the directory contents?

Do the stuck process get into D state  (in 'ps axuf') like I assume it is?

I know I didn't answer the question but maybe an answer to one of these
questions might :)

That's it for now...

-- Shimi
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Re: help with ls command

[Jonathan Ben Avraham]

Sounds like you are trying to do an ls on a directory that is mounted NFS 
from an NFS server that is not responding or not available.


 - yba


On Tue, 1 May 2012, Baruch Siach wrote:


Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 14:11:48 +0300
From: Baruch Siach bar...@tkos.co.il
To: Camelia Botez camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.il
Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
Subject: Re: help with ls command

Hi Camelia,

On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 10:59:42AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:

I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.
Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on which ls
command gets stuck.
I don't get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command - I only can
close the window.
I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn't help I ran manually
fsck.
No improvement.
Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?


Please provide the output of the following command:

   strace ls

If you don't have 'strace' on your servers, just install the strace package
with 'yum install strace'.

baruch




--
 EE 77 7F 30 4A 64 2E C5  83 5F E7 49 A6 82 29 BA~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
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RE: help with ls command

[Camelia Botez]

I’m talkibg about /usr/local/src that is on /dev/sda2 under / and indeed it is 
the partition I ran fsck.
In other directories ls works fine.
Yes the shell does manage to read the directory contents , but in one 
subdirectory containing no more than 24 files ls –ltr gets stuck.
No the ls command is not in D state (if I’m not mistaking its state is S).



From: sh...@shimi.net [mailto:sh...@shimi.net] On Behalf Of shimi
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:13 PM
To: Camelia Botez
Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
Subject: Re: help with ls command


On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Camelia Botez 
camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.ilmailto:camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.il wrote:
I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.
Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on which ls 
command gets stuck.
I don’t get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command – I only can close 
the window.
I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn’t help I ran manually  
fsck.
No improvement.
Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?



Things I can think of...

Anything on dmesg when this happens?

Did you verify that those directories are indeed on the volume you fsck'd ? 
(and not a network share, etc.)

Are those 'stock' directories (part of the install) or something you've added? 
If stock, what's the path? (to know if it's a special one, augmenting the 
previous question)

Is the problem with actual listing, or 'ls' itself? Did you try, for example, 
cat /path/to/dir/ tab tab to see if the shell does manage to read the 
directory contents?

Do the stuck process get into D state  (in 'ps axuf') like I assume it is?

I know I didn't answer the question but maybe an answer to one of these 
questions might :)

That's it for now...

-- Shimi
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Re: help with ls command

[shimi]

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Camelia Botez
camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.ilwrote:

  I’m talkibg about /usr/local/src that is on /dev/sda2 under / and indeed
 it is the partition I ran fsck.

 In other directories ls works fine. 

 Yes the shell does manage to read the directory contents , but in one
 subdirectory containing no more than 24 files ls –ltr gets stuck.

 No the ls command is not in D state (if I’m not mistaking its state is S).
 



Follow up question, then:

Are you performing those operations over network? (and especially - over
VPN/WAN/Tunnel)? If so, what you're describing sounds like the output
packet sizes may be too large for your path's MTU. If you take the network
interface you're coming through MTU and reduce it, to, let's say, 1300,
does the problem persist? (/sbin/ifconfig eth0 mtu 1300)

-- Shimi
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Re: help with ls command

[Baruch Siach]

Hi Camelia,

Please keep the linux-il list on Cc.

On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 11:37:02AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
 Gets stuck on nanosleep ({8, 0}) after that on nanosleep ({64, 0} , and 
 nothing

Please give a little more verbose output, so we can see the context of these 
system calls.

By the way, nanosleep({64, 0}) means sleep for 64 seconds. What happens 
after 64 seconds?

baruch

 -Original Message-
 From: Baruch Siach [mailto:bar...@tkos.co.il] 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:12 PM
 To: Camelia Botez
 Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
 Subject: Re: help with ls command
 
 Hi Camelia,
 
 On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 10:59:42AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
  I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.
  Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on 
  which ls command gets stuck.
  I don't get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command - I only 
  can close the window.
  I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn't help I ran 
  manually fsck.
  No improvement.
  Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?
 
 Please provide the output of the following command:
 
 strace ls
 
 If you don't have 'strace' on your servers, just install the strace package 
 with 'yum install strace'.
 
 baruch

-- 
 http://baruch.siach.name/blog/  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
   - bar...@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -

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Re: help with ls command

[Baruch Siach]

Hi Camelia,

On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 11:49:43AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
 I got the full outpu from starce ls -ltr

According to the strace output below you seem to be doing just fine.

write(1, total 395352\n, 13total 395352
)  = 13
clock_gettime(CLOCK_REALTIME, {1335872587, 209289000}) = 0
stat(/etc/localtime, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2197, ...}) = 0
write(1, -rw-r--r--  1   1000   1000 ..., 59-rw-r--r--  1   1000   1000   
  15086 Dec 12  2007 LICENSE
) = 59
stat(/etc/localtime, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2197, ...}) = 0
write(1, -rw-r--r--  1   1000   1000 ..., 61-rw-r--r--  1   1000   1000   
   6182 Nov  2  2009 mysql.sql
) = 61
stat(/etc/localtime, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2197, ...}) = 0
write(1, -rw-r--r--  1   1000   1000 ..., 63-rw-r--r--  1   1000   1000   
   4612 Nov 11  2009 install.bat
) = 63
stat(/etc/localtime, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2197, ...}) = 0
write(1, -rwxr-xr-x  1   1000   1000 ..., 59-rwxr-xr-x  1   1000   1000   
   3382 Nov 11  2009 install
) = 59
stat(/etc/localtime, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2197, ...}) = 0
write(1, -rw-r--r--  1   1000   1000 ..., 61-rw-r--r--  1   1000   1000   
244 Nov 16  2009 CHANGELOG
) = 61
...

baruch

 
 -Original Message-
 From: Baruch Siach [mailto:bar...@tkos.co.il] 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:12 PM
 To: Camelia Botez
 Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
 Subject: Re: help with ls command
 
 Hi Camelia,
 
 On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 10:59:42AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
  I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.
  Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on 
  which ls command gets stuck.
  I don't get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command - I only 
  can close the window.
  I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn't help I ran 
  manually fsck.
  No improvement.
  Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?
 
 Please provide the output of the following command:
 
 strace ls
 
 If you don't have 'strace' on your servers, just install the strace package 
 with 'yum install strace'.
 
 baruch



-- 
 http://baruch.siach.name/blog/  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
   - bar...@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -

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Re: help with ls command

[Baruch Shpirer]

Can you estimate number of files in those folders? nfs mounts?
On May 1, 2012 7:00 AM, Camelia Botez camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.il
wrote:

  I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.

 Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on which
 ls command gets stuck.

 I don’t get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command – I only can
 close the window.

 I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn’t help I ran
 manually  fsck.

 No improvement.

 Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?

 ** **

 ** **

 Thank you

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RE: help with ls command

[Amos Shapira]

Try passing ls a flag to not convert uid's to usernames. I'm beginning to
suspect an issue with user databases (e.g. look at sssd, nsswitch.conf and
friends)
On May 1, 2012 9:30 PM, Camelia Botez camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.il
wrote:

  I’m talkibg about /usr/local/src that is on /dev/sda2 under / and indeed
 it is the partition I ran fsck.

 In other directories ls works fine. 

 Yes the shell does manage to read the directory contents , but in one
 subdirectory containing no more than 24 files ls –ltr gets stuck.

 No the ls command is not in D state (if I’m not mistaking its state is S).
 



 

 ** **

 *From:* sh...@shimi.net [mailto:sh...@shimi.net] *On Behalf Of *shimi
 *Sent:* Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:13 PM
 *To:* Camelia Botez
 *Cc:* linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
 *Subject:* Re: help with ls command

 ** **

 ** **

 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Camelia Botez 
 camelia.bo...@weizmann.ac.il wrote:

 I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.

 Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on which
 ls command gets stuck.

 I don’t get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command – I only can
 close the window.

 I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn’t help I ran
 manually  fsck.

 No improvement.

 Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?

  

 ** **


 Things I can think of...

 Anything on dmesg when this happens?

 Did you verify that those directories are indeed on the volume you fsck'd
 ? (and not a network share, etc.)

 Are those 'stock' directories (part of the install) or something you've
 added? If stock, what's the path? (to know if it's a special one,
 augmenting the previous question)


 Is the problem with actual listing, or 'ls' itself? Did you try, for
 example, cat /path/to/dir/ tab tab to see if the shell does manage to
 read the directory contents?

 Do the stuck process get into D state  (in 'ps axuf') like I assume it is?

 I know I didn't answer the question but maybe an answer to one of these
 questions might :)

 That's it for now...

 -- Shimi

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RE: help with ls command

[Camelia Botez]

I did it , but I got back a message saying that the attachment is too big and 
my mail is in standby. 

-Original Message-
From: Baruch Siach [mailto:bar...@tkos.co.il] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:43 PM
To: Camelia Botez
Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
Subject: Re: help with ls command

Hi Camelia,

Please keep the linux-il list on Cc.

On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 11:37:02AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
 Gets stuck on nanosleep ({8, 0}) after that on nanosleep ({64, 0} , 
 and nothing

Please give a little more verbose output, so we can see the context of these 
system calls.

By the way, nanosleep({64, 0}) means sleep for 64 seconds. What happens after 
64 seconds?

baruch

 -Original Message-
 From: Baruch Siach [mailto:bar...@tkos.co.il]
 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:12 PM
 To: Camelia Botez
 Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
 Subject: Re: help with ls command
 
 Hi Camelia,
 
 On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 10:59:42AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
  I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.
  Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on 
  which ls command gets stuck.
  I don't get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command - I only 
  can close the window.
  I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn't help I ran 
  manually fsck.
  No improvement.
  Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?
 
 Please provide the output of the following command:
 
 strace ls
 
 If you don't have 'strace' on your servers, just install the strace 
 package with 'yum install strace'.
 
 baruch

-- 
 http://baruch.siach.name/blog/  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
   - bar...@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -

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Re: help with ls command

[Baruch Siach]

Hi Camelia,

On Wed, May 02, 2012 at 04:48:05AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
 I did it , but I got back a message saying that the attachment is too big 
 and my mail is in standby. 

Having the last few lines of context should be enough.

baruch

 -Original Message-
 From: Baruch Siach [mailto:bar...@tkos.co.il] 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:43 PM
 To: Camelia Botez
 Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
 Subject: Re: help with ls command
 
 Hi Camelia,
 
 Please keep the linux-il list on Cc.
 
 On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 11:37:02AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
  Gets stuck on nanosleep ({8, 0}) after that on nanosleep ({64, 0} , 
  and nothing
 
 Please give a little more verbose output, so we can see the context of these 
 system calls.
 
 By the way, nanosleep({64, 0}) means sleep for 64 seconds. What happens 
 after 64 seconds?
 
 baruch
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Baruch Siach [mailto:bar...@tkos.co.il]
  Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:12 PM
  To: Camelia Botez
  Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
  Subject: Re: help with ls command
  
  Hi Camelia,
  
  On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 10:59:42AM +, Camelia Botez wrote:
   I have 2 servers running Rhel5 and Centos5.
   Around 2 weeks ago on both of them , I have specific directories on 
   which ls command gets stuck.
   I don't get any output from ls , I cannot stop the command - I only 
   can close the window.
   I rebooted the servers and when I saw that reboot didn't help I ran 
   manually fsck.
   No improvement.
   Has anyone any idea what can be the cause and what to do?
  
  Please provide the output of the following command:
  
  strace ls
  
  If you don't have 'strace' on your servers, just install the strace 
  package with 'yum install strace'.

-- 
 http://baruch.siach.name/blog/  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
   - bar...@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -

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Re: Help with script

[Mordecha Behar]

I am not a script wizard, but I think I may know of a way to cut down a lot
of the work.
Calibre (http://calibre-ebook.com/) is a FOSS library tool. It allows the
user to import books in many formats, including plain text and html.
Another FOSS program called Sigil (http://code.google.com/p/sigil/) allows
the user to easily create, edit and modify epub formatted ebooks (creating a
title page, changing text format in a GUI editor, making a table of
contents...).
What I would do would be to save the html (or plain text) files from the
internet in a single folder, then import that to Calibre, then use Calibre's
tool to convert to an epub book, and use Sigil to add the finishing touches.
Between the two, and with freely available text from the internet, I think
you can get the job done a lot easier, without writing a single script.
Good luck!

2011/2/24 Steve G. word...@gmail.com

 I am looking for someone to mentor me, help me, or work with me on the
 following, non-marketable project. This is NOT a job offer, but a request
 for help. If any money comes out of the project, I will gladly share it with
 people who help me, but I doubt anything will.

 So here is a description of what I want to accomplish:

 Many years ago, I resolved to read the bible (old testament) in its
 entirety, in Hebrew/Spanish. I purchased a dual language bible, La Biblia,
 and start the journey. The goal was to learn Spanish, and also become
 acquainted with the old text, only bits and pieces of which are taught in
 any school, even a religious one.

 Carrying a bilingual bible is literally a heavy burden, scares away the
 chicks and everyone else except fundamentalists and weirdos, which did not
 help. I got stuck somewhere in the second book when too many names stumped
 me. I still read a page now and then, but at this rate it will take me 543
 years to finish.

 Fast forward 20 years, we now have a tool perfect for reading one line at a
 time - the new Kindle! So I am thinking why not create an electronic version
 of the same document - 2 bilingual
 bibles, Hebrew-Spanish and Spanish-Hebrew, verse by verse. Maybe even with
 punctuation marks, though that is not a necessity.

 I can find copyright free web pages. In Spanish I can get the whole bible
 as a single file. In Hebrew most sites are arranged book by book, but that
 is fairly easy to combine into a single file manually. I would like to write
 a script, preferably in python, that would read the files, parse them into a
 series of sentences, and recombine them as a bilingual file, one verse
 following the other. Hebrew/Spanish and Spanish/Hebrew.

 I am not a programmer, but I can probably create a script with guidance.
 Working with a knowledgeable individual would eliminate enough of the
 learning curve for me to make it a reality. If I were to do it from scratch,
 it will be so low on my priorities list that it would take years to get to
 it. If we get this done, I would post it somewhere as a freely available
 document, of course.

 As for the commercial part - if we get this text processed, I will
 considering offering it as a Kindle book on Amazon, and also maybe
 converting it to PDF. As far as I know there is nothing like that on the
 market, though someone is selling dual language bibles in English and a
 number of other languages on Amazon.

 Anyone interested in helping with the project, please let me know.

 Z.
 --
 Check out my web site - www.words2u.net

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Re: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[Kfir Lavi]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote:

 Several times I have been caught in the situation in which the
 Infrastructure (Hot in this particular case) and the ISP (012 in this
 particular case) blame each other for the customer not having internet
 access. I need to understand this.

 After two weeks of my mother-in-law not having internet access, during
 which 012 blamed Hot and Hot blamed 012, I get there to take care of
 the issue. At Hot they tell me that since the modem lights are fine (4
 lit, one flashing) the problem must be with 012. At 012 they tell me
 that because she connects without a Dialer (as all Linux customers do)
 they cannot trace the problem any further than a superficial check
 which checks out OK. 012 sees the modem, so they say the problem
 must be with Hot.

 Apparently, the ability to trace problems is the reason that Windows
 users must use a Dialer. Furthermore, at 012 they inform me that it is
 Hot, not 012, that is providing the internet outside because there is
 no dialer. They say that they gave Hot permission to connect me
 directly to the internet this way. So if Hot can provide connections
 out, then why do we need ISPs at all? I notice that no other nation in
 Europe has this Infrastructure/ISP dichotomy.

 Furthermore, the next time that there is a problem how can I check if
 the issue is with the infrastructure or with the ISP?

 Thanks!

 --
 Dotan Cohen

 http://gibberish.co.il
 http://what-is-what.com

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Hi,
I had the same problem.
I found out that when HOT do a reset of the connection everything works
again.
Reset - Move to dialer, then move back to dhcp.
You will need to ask it more then once because they don't want to do it.
(they want you to open network connections...)

Another problem is a reset of the dhcp I get every few seconds. I get the IP
then
I loose the IP.
I found out that using the --nolink to the dhcpcd client, will not reset the
dhcp every few seconds.

Now for me, everything works, for now.
Until next time that I need to call them and shout very very loud until they
listen.
F... them. I really really hate them (HOT).

Regards,
Kfir
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Re: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[Uri Even-Chen]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 13:33, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote:
 Several times I have been caught in the situation in which the
 Infrastructure (Hot in this particular case) and the ISP (012 in this
 particular case) blame each other for the customer not having internet
 access. I need to understand this.

 After two weeks of my mother-in-law not having internet access, during
 which 012 blamed Hot and Hot blamed 012, I get there to take care of
 the issue. At Hot they tell me that since the modem lights are fine (4
 lit, one flashing) the problem must be with 012. At 012 they tell me
 that because she connects without a Dialer (as all Linux customers do)
 they cannot trace the problem any further than a superficial check
 which checks out OK. 012 sees the modem, so they say the problem
 must be with Hot.

 Apparently, the ability to trace problems is the reason that Windows
 users must use a Dialer. Furthermore, at 012 they inform me that it is
 Hot, not 012, that is providing the internet outside because there is
 no dialer. They say that they gave Hot permission to connect me
 directly to the internet this way. So if Hot can provide connections
 out, then why do we need ISPs at all? I notice that no other nation in
 Europe has this Infrastructure/ISP dichotomy.

 Furthermore, the next time that there is a problem how can I check if
 the issue is with the infrastructure or with the ISP?

1. I used both Bezeq and Hot and I prefer Bezeq. Hot's service is
really terrible. I'm currently connected with Bezeq and Bezeq
International, and I use Gmail + Google Apps as my email provider (not
Bezeq International).

2. The law in Israel forbids Bezeq and Hot from connecting people to
the Internet without using ISP, since they are both monopolies. You
need to have two companies - either Bezeq or Hot + an ISP. But you can
make a deal with an ISP to pay for Bezeq or Hot - that's what I am
doing with Bezeq International.

3. I'm using Windows with a dialer to connect to the Internet. If you
use a router you can configure the router to dial up for you. I really
don't know how you can connect without a dialer.

4. When you use a dialer, if you can't connect you get an error
message. Tech support people can understand this error message to see
where is the problem. You also have lights in your modem, they are
also used to track problems. You can contact either your ISP tech
support or your infrastructure - I usually call ISP first.

5. I know Bezeq had once options to connect with an ISP without
opening an account - you pay per minute but it's very expensive and I
don't recommend doing it. Even then when I had technical problems and
called Bezeq, they told me to call the tech support of my ISP.

6. Maybe Hevrat Hashmal will start competing with Bezeq and Hot, then
we will have 3 companies which means more competition - prices will go
down and speed  service will improve.

7. An ideal state will be that a company will not need permission from
the government (ministry of communications) to connect people to the
Internet (or to phone  fax). Then we can have hundreds of companies
with competition - prices will go down and speed  service will
improve a lot. But if you live far away from the center you will have
less options. Still I think this is the best solution. Anyone wants to
change the law?...

8. Next time don't wait two weeks. Switch to Bezeq.

9. By the way, by giving Hot permission to connect you to the
Internet, I think you must have an account with an ISP, pay the ISP
and you are using the ISP - but directly without a dialer. If you
check your IP address you will probably see that you are connected via
ISP (012.net).

Good luck!

Uri Even-Chen
Mobile Phone: +972-50-9007559
E-mail: u...@speedy.net
Website: http://www.speedy.net/

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Re: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[Dotan Shavit]

On Saturday, January 29, 2011 13:33:46 Dotan Cohen wrote:
 Furthermore, the next time that there is a problem how can I check if
 the issue is with the infrastructure or with the ISP?
traceroute

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Re: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[shimi]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote:

 Several times I have been caught in the situation in which the
 Infrastructure (Hot in this particular case) and the ISP (012 in this
 particular case) blame each other for the customer not having internet
 access. I need to understand this.

 After two weeks of my mother-in-law not having internet access, during
 which 012 blamed Hot and Hot blamed 012, I get there to take care of
 the issue. At Hot they tell me that since the modem lights are fine (4
 lit, one flashing) the problem must be with 012. At 012 they tell me
 that because she connects without a Dialer (as all Linux customers do)
 they cannot trace the problem any further than a superficial check
 which checks out OK. 012 sees the modem, so they say the problem
 must be with Hot.

 Apparently, the ability to trace problems is the reason that Windows
 users must use a Dialer. Furthermore, at 012 they inform me that it is
 Hot, not 012, that is providing the internet outside because there is
 no dialer. They say that they gave Hot permission to connect me
 directly to the internet this way. So if Hot can provide connections
 out, then why do we need ISPs at all? I notice that no other nation in
 Europe has this Infrastructure/ISP dichotomy.

 Furthermore, the next time that there is a problem how can I check if
 the issue is with the infrastructure or with the ISP?


If you don't have Internet access at all, and OTHER 012 dialer-less users
do, then I would say the problem lies within Hot. As you were correctly
told, in dialer-less (also dubbed MPLS-mode), Hot simply assigns you an IP
address from an 012's IP range that gets exported to them, and they are the
one actually connecting you to the Internet.

If you have Internet, but it's slow, etc, then this can be a problem in
either one of them (usually something between you and the CMTS...) - or
congestion / routing issue within the ISP.

So it really depends on what do you mean when you say not having Internet
access. Surely, if she didn't have access _at all_, that didn't happen to
all 012 MPLS users (or the media would be all over this and you would know).

The modem having the lights on is meaningless. Hot can say whatever they
want. Recently I had some serious trouble with them, due to frequencies
filter that they've placed on my cable, to stop me from receiving their
analog broadcasts, after I disconnected from their TV service (in favor of
Hot, which is why it is so ridiculous that they did...). During those
troubles, their modem completely lost the ability to catch signal from the
network, and the lights were still all on, as if all is good. A power cycle
of the modem revealed that it cannot get back to that state :)

Anyways... 012 really can't do anything if it's not a global problem that
they have. They indeed have 0 control over a single user in that mode of
connection. Either all the users in your network pool has a problem, or none
of them has, as far as 012 is concerned. This assertion is of course correct
to all connections at MPLS-mode, not only via 012.

HTH,

-- Shimi
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Re: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[Oleg Goldshmidt]

NB: order of quotes from the OP reshuffled

Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com writes:

 ... because she connects without a Dialer (as all Linux customers
 do) 

I don't think that's true, although I am on direct DHCP myself.

 they cannot trace the problem any further than a superficial check
 which checks out OK.

FWIW, I have never used a dialer with a broadband connection, and I
have never heard a support person saying anything along the lines of
since you do not use a dialer we cannot help you.

 012 sees the modem, so they say the problem must be with Hot.

They have a point, see below.

 Furthermore, at 012 they inform me that it is Hot, not 012, that is
 providing the internet outside because there is no dialer. They say
 that they gave Hot permission to connect me directly to the
 internet this way. So if Hot can provide connections out, then why
 do we need ISPs at all?

AFAIK, your ISP is responsible for giving you the logical access,
i.e., providing you with an IP address from their pool, username,
password, mailbox, etc. The infrastructure provider (Hot in your case
and mine) are responsible for actually running the DHCP service that
provides you with the right address and routing you to the outside
world. They do this if they have the appropriate information from the
ISP (you are a customer with such and such contract, you use direct
DHCP, you have paid, etc., etc.). The reasons for the division of
labour are probably legal and can hardly be relevant..

 Furthermore, the next time that there is a problem how can I check
 if the issue is with the infrastructure or with the ISP?

I always call Hot first since they are the ones who run the basic
services. I think just once in recent years they bounced me to Barak -
I forgot the exact reason but it sounded plausible, and the Barak's
techie chuckled and said, Huh, they are right for once, would you
believe it?...

 After two weeks of my mother-in-law not having internet access,

What exactly does this mean? Does she get an IP address? Does she get
an IP address from the ISP's range? Is she routed to the outside
world?

In my experience, being specific about the problem helps a lot.  Next
time you call Hot take care to gather the information and present them
with as detailed and focused description of the problem as you
can. E.g., I powercycled my modem, it is synchronized, but DHCP gives
me X.X.X.X rather than Y.Y.Y.Y that I expect. I traceroute
www.google.com and it stops inside your network. It looks like you
guys don't assign me my ISP's address and don't route me to the world
- could you have a look why?. Once you have formulated the problem in
such terms - and assuming you appear knowledgeable and polite and
good-humoured - it is difficult for them to just wave you off. In my
experience, they are not so bad. I am usually more frustrated with
losing the service in the first place and waiting on the line and
waddling through the menus than with the support personnel themselves.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org

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Re: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[shimi]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 6:28 PM, shimi linux...@shimi.net wrote:

 after I disconnected from their TV service (in favor of Hot, which is why
 it is so ridiculous that they did...). During those troubles, their modem
 completely lost the ability to catch signal from the network, and the lights
 were still all on, as if all is


Whoops, in favor of Yes, of course :-)

-- Shimi
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RE: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[Ron Varburg]

http://www.thecom.co.il/article.php?id=11477 has somewhat more information.


 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:33:46 +0200
 Subject: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP
 From: dotanco...@gmail.com
 To: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il

 Several times I have been caught in the situation in which the
 Infrastructure (Hot in this particular case) and the ISP (012 in this
 particular case) blame each other for the customer not having internet
 access. I need to understand this.

 After two weeks of my mother-in-law not having internet access, during
 which 012 blamed Hot and Hot blamed 012, I get there to take care of
 the issue. At Hot they tell me that since the modem lights are fine (4
 lit, one flashing) the problem must be with 012. At 012 they tell me
 that because she connects without a Dialer (as all Linux customers do)
 they cannot trace the problem any further than a superficial check
 which checks out OK. 012 sees the modem, so they say the problem
 must be with Hot.

 Apparently, the ability to trace problems is the reason that Windows
 users must use a Dialer. Furthermore, at 012 they inform me that it is
 Hot, not 012, that is providing the internet outside because there is
 no dialer. They say that they gave Hot permission to connect me
 directly to the internet this way. So if Hot can provide connections
 out, then why do we need ISPs at all? I notice that no other nation in
 Europe has this Infrastructure/ISP dichotomy.

 Furthermore, the next time that there is a problem how can I check if
 the issue is with the infrastructure or with the ISP?

 Thanks!

 --
 Dotan Cohen

 http://gibberish.co.il
 http://what-is-what.com

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Re: Help me understand connection to internet: Infrastructure and ISP

[Etzion Bar-Noy]

I have been pursuing an Internet problem for the last two weeks until its
apparent solution last week. It was classical - Packet Loss. Hot blamed
Bezeq Int. and did nothing about it, I have had to prove (using Bezeqint
support personnel) that the problem was Hot's. It was very tiresome, and I
consider sending them a bill for my hours under the title assistance with
solving Internet connectivity problem. I don't think they will pay, but it
could be interesting to see the response it might provoke there.

I use Linux, and I use a dialer. Whoever claims you have to use MPLS (aka -
no-dialer) for Linux is an idiot who doesn't understand the infrastructure.
I use L2TP, as can be described here (works for modern distros as well):
http://run.tournament.org.il/cables-connection-in-israel-for-linux/
I have written it :-)

It allows for easier troubleshooting when it comes to support personnel,
given you understand the actions required. BezeqInt were OK, regarding the
waste of my time, as I had explained what I was doing, and gave the (true)
impression I know what I'm doing. Hot, on the other side, had a great
service. They had spent hours with me. It's a great service, where it can be
measured on the level of service, but they are technically inadepts, who
should be kept far away from computer equipment. I refer their technical
teams, of course - Their infrastructure teams, especially, and their tech
support teams. They are like baboons with keyboards, and most of their
actions are based on random it succeeded before so let's do it again
methods.
However, since Bezeq don't supply NGN near my home, I am stuck with Hot for
the next year, most likely.

When using MPLS, try to use traceroute, and check if you get packet loss to
your default GW. This is within Hot's domain, still. Onwards, it's Bezeq
Int. You can use their speed tests, and other international speed tests to
test the connectivity. You can check DNS, with their DNS server, or with
free DNS servers on the net, such as 8.8.8.8 (google. Will supply service).

Hope it works for you better in the future.

Ez

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote:

 Several times I have been caught in the situation in which the
 Infrastructure (Hot in this particular case) and the ISP (012 in this
 particular case) blame each other for the customer not having internet
 access. I need to understand this.

 After two weeks of my mother-in-law not having internet access, during
 which 012 blamed Hot and Hot blamed 012, I get there to take care of
 the issue. At Hot they tell me that since the modem lights are fine (4
 lit, one flashing) the problem must be with 012. At 012 they tell me
 that because she connects without a Dialer (as all Linux customers do)
 they cannot trace the problem any further than a superficial check
 which checks out OK. 012 sees the modem, so they say the problem
 must be with Hot.

 Apparently, the ability to trace problems is the reason that Windows
 users must use a Dialer. Furthermore, at 012 they inform me that it is
 Hot, not 012, that is providing the internet outside because there is
 no dialer. They say that they gave Hot permission to connect me
 directly to the internet this way. So if Hot can provide connections
 out, then why do we need ISPs at all? I notice that no other nation in
 Europe has this Infrastructure/ISP dichotomy.

 Furthermore, the next time that there is a problem how can I check if
 the issue is with the infrastructure or with the ISP?

 Thanks!

 --
 Dotan Cohen

 http://gibberish.co.il
 http://what-is-what.com

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Re: help with kde on ubuntu 10.04

[Shlomo Solomon]

On Sunday 11 July 2010, Dan Bar Dov wrote:
 How do I add hebrew input to KDE on Ubuntu 10.04?
 (had to switch from gnome, and it is SO different from kde 3.5)
 Also, where to I control keyboard shortcuts to select the input language?
 
 Thanks,
 Dan
 
from the K Menu (like Start on Windows)
 - choose settings -- system settings -- Regional  Language
 - in the Country/Region  Language tab you can install a language
 - in the Keyboard Layout tab you'll find a switching tab 
 - after choosing a shortcut, you can use it or click on the language icon on 
the the taskbar at the bottom of the screen


 
-- 
Shlomo Solomon
http://the-solomons.net
Sent by KMail 1.12.4 (KDE 4.3.5) on LINUX Mandriva 2010.0


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Re: help with kde on ubuntu 10.04

[Dan Bar Dov]

Gracias!

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Shlomo Solomon shlomo.solo...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Sunday 11 July 2010, Dan Bar Dov wrote:
  How do I add hebrew input to KDE on Ubuntu 10.04?
  (had to switch from gnome, and it is SO different from kde 3.5)
  Also, where to I control keyboard shortcuts to select the input language?
 
  Thanks,
  Dan
 
 from the K Menu (like Start on Windows)
  - choose settings -- system settings -- Regional  Language
  - in the Country/Region  Language tab you can install a language
  - in the Keyboard Layout tab you'll find a switching tab
  - after choosing a shortcut, you can use it or click on the language icon
 on
 the the taskbar at the bottom of the screen



 --
 Shlomo Solomon
 http://the-solomons.net
 Sent by KMail 1.12.4 (KDE 4.3.5) on LINUX Mandriva 2010.0


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Re: Help - can anyone explain this segfault?

[Ehud Karni]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:10:33 Shachar Shemesh wrote:

 Dotan Shavit wrote:
 
  From man vfork:
 
  behavior is undefined if the process created by vfork() returns from the
  function in which vfork() was called...
 
 Well done, you nailed it.

 Placing an explicit call to exit for the child process solves the segfault.

I hope you used _exit() and NOT exit(). The man page on my system for vfork
says (read carefully, at least 3 catch you):

vfork() differs from fork() in that the parent is suspended until the
child makes a call to execve(2) or _exit(2). The child shares all memory
with its parent, including the stack, until execve() is issued by the
child. The child must not return from the current function or call
exit(), but may call _exit().

Also note that vfork on GNU/Linux stops the parent until it exit by either
calling _exit() or executing execve(). Normally (in older systems) it was
used solely to execute another program.

BTW. On linux, If you do execute a program right away, vfork is not really
better than fork. On older systems (e.g. DG/UX) fork copied the whole
memory before continuing, and vfork changed the shared (read: parent)
memory. On linux fork use copy on write so it does not copy (almost)
any memory before doing its work.


Ehud.


--
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Re: Help - can anyone explain this segfault?

[Shachar Shemesh]

I'm not normally in the habit of forwarding private emails to public 
forums, but I thought it might interest someone here why I was asking 
what I was asking, as well as what I found out while working on it.


Ehud Karni wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:04:37 Ehud Karni wrote:
  

[snip]



You don't have to reply. I did see Shlomo email and your reply just
now because he changed the thread name. I understand your need for
vfork. Just be careful.

  
In point of fact, I do not need vfork at all. It can be eliminated from 
the system calls list altogether, as far as I'm concerned. 
Unfortunately, it is GNU make that uses vfork in order to start new 
processes.


The reason I care what make does is a project of mine called 
fakeroot-ng [1]. It attempts to achieve the same broad effect as 
fakeroot[2], except using the more thorough PTRACE technology, rather 
than LD_PRELOAD like fakeroot. As such, it hooks itself between the run 
time library and the kernel (as opposed to between the program and the 
runtime library, which is what fakeroot does). The problems there tend 
to be somewhat unique, due to glibc's close intimate relationship with 
the kernel.


In particular, I am trying to tackle the problem of how to remain 
attached as a debugger to a process that spawns a new child process 
(threads are a subject I have not even begun working on). Copying ideas 
liberally from strace (it's insane to try and copy code from there - 
the code there is a total mess), I tried turning calls to fork into 
calls to clone, adding the CLONE_TRACE and removing the CLONE_UNTRACE 
flags. This works for program that call clone or fork, but when the 
program calls vfork, it segfaults after it returns from the syscall.


Of course, in order to debug that properly, it is best to construct a 
sample program that does vfork and little else. Of course, if that 
program then crashes even without fakeroot-ng, then I've got a program. 
This is what the sample program I sent to the list was all about. Thank 
you all for your help.


All this is made worse when you consider that, since fakeroot-ng is 
already a debugger for the process that segfaults, gdb cannot connect to 
it. Anyways, I think I have a fairly good idea on what the source of the 
problem might be now, and I'm hoping to get this resolved soonish.

One comment - If the parent failed when you returned from call in the
child, It is proof that at least the stack memory was common to both.
  
sys_vfork calls do_fork with CLONE_VFORK|CLONE_VM. The first means 
return to parent only after child releases the VM (i.e. - calls exit 
or execve), while the second means to have the two share the same VM. As 
such, yeah, the stack is commune when calling vfork.


Of course, this means that the function vfork as implemented in glibc 
needs to do some magic in order to not trash the stack when it returns. 
I believe it is this magic that causes the segfault. Still looking into it.


Shachar

Ehud.


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 Mivtach - Simon  Fax: +972-3-7976-561  \ /  ASCII Ribbon Campaign
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--
Shachar Shemesh
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Re: Help - can anyone explain this segfault?

[Baruch Siach]

Hi Shachar,

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 05:53:07PM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
 Hi all,

 Here is fork.c in its entirety:
 #define _GNU_SOURCE
 #include sys/types.h
 #include unistd.h
 #include sched.h
 #include sys/syscall.h
 #include signal.h

 #include stdio.h

 int main()
 {
 pid_t child;

 printf(Started, pid=%d\n, getpid() );

 //child=fork();
 child=vfork();
 //child=syscall(__NR_fork);
 //child=syscall(__NR_vfork);
 //child=syscall(__NR_clone, CLONE_VFORK|SIGCHLD, 0);

 if( child0 ) {
 perror(fork failed);

 return 1;
 }

 if( child==0 ) {
 printf(Child, pid=%d\n, getpid() );
 } else {
 printf(Parent, child=%d\n, child );

 int status;
 wait(status);
 }

 return 0;
 }
 I compile it with gcc 4.3.2 from Debian Lenny with the following command  
 line:
 gcc -O0 -g -o fork fork.c

 When I run it, I get:
 $ ./fork
 Started, pid=13711
 Child, pid=13712
 Parent, child=13712
 Segmentation fault

 The core dump is of no use whats o' ever - it shows an rip of 0. If the  
 program is run from within strace, there is no segmentation fault. Same  
 goes if it is being run by gdb or valgrind. In fact, I'm having a  
 somewhat difficult time deciding whether it is the parent or the child  
 that dumps core! (adding a printf after the wait confirms that the  
 child returned with status code 0, so it must be the parent that is seg  
 faulting).

 help?

Compiling your program with -Wall emits the following warning on Debian 
Squeeze (amd64, gcc 4.3.3):

fork.c: In function ‘main’:
fork.c:34: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘wait’

This may indicate a headers mismatch in Debian.

Running the program gives the same result as yours.

Hope this helps.

baruch

-- 
 ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
   - bar...@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -

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Re: Help - can anyone explain this segfault?

[Dotan Shavit]

On Friday 19 June 2009, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
 help?

From man vfork:

behavior is undefined if the process created by vfork() returns from the 
function in which vfork() was called...

#

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Re: Help - can anyone explain this segfault?

[Shlomi Fish]

On Friday 19 June 2009 17:53:07 Shachar Shemesh wrote:
 Hi all,

 Here is fork.c in its entirety:
  #define _GNU_SOURCE
  #include sys/types.h
  #include unistd.h
  #include sched.h
  #include sys/syscall.h
  #include signal.h
 
  #include stdio.h
 
  int main()
  {
  pid_t child;
 
  printf(Started, pid=%d\n, getpid() );
 
  //child=fork();
  child=vfork();
  //child=syscall(__NR_fork);
  //child=syscall(__NR_vfork);
  //child=syscall(__NR_clone, CLONE_VFORK|SIGCHLD, 0);
 
  if( child0 ) {
  perror(fork failed);
 
  return 1;
  }
 
  if( child==0 ) {
  printf(Child, pid=%d\n, getpid() );
  } else {
  printf(Parent, child=%d\n, child );
 
  int status;
  wait(status);
  }
 
  return 0;
  }

 I compile it with gcc 4.3.2 from Debian Lenny with the following command
 line:
 gcc -O0 -g -o fork fork.c

 When I run it, I get:
  $ ./fork
  Started, pid=13711
  Child, pid=13712
  Parent, child=13712
  Segmentation fault


Works fine here (Mandriva Linux Cooker with gcc-4.4.0):

{{{
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29263
Parent, child=29263
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29264
Parent, child=29264
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29265
Parent, child=29265
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29266
Parent, child=29266
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29267
Parent, child=29267
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29268
Parent, child=29268
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29269
Parent, child=29269
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29270
Parent, child=29270
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29271
Parent, child=29271
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29272
Parent, child=29272
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29273
Parent, child=29273
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29274
Parent, child=29274
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29275
Parent, child=29275
Started, pid=29262
Child, pid=29276
Parent, child=29276
}}}

And so to infinity.

Perhaps you should try it in different Linux distributions and versions inside 
virtual machines.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

 The core dump is of no use whats o' ever - it shows an rip of 0. If the
 program is run from within strace, there is no segmentation fault. Same
 goes if it is being run by gdb or valgrind. In fact, I'm having a
 somewhat difficult time deciding whether it is the parent or the child
 that dumps core! (adding a printf after the wait confirms that the
 child returned with status code 0, so it must be the parent that is seg
 faulting).

 help?

 Shachar

-- 
-
Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
Understand what Open Source is - http://xrl.us/bjn82

God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
read.

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Re: Help - can anyone explain this segfault?

[Shachar Shemesh]

Dotan Shavit wrote:

On Friday 19 June 2009, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
  

help?



From man vfork:

behavior is undefined if the process created by vfork() returns from the 
function in which vfork() was called...


#
  

Well done, you nailed it.

Placing an explicit call to exit for the child process solves the segfault.

Now I can try and find out why this doesn't work with fakeroot-ng :-)

Shachar

--
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Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd.
http://www.lingnu.com

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SOLVED Re: Help setting up xfce4 on ubuntu 8.04 - does not connect with Dbus -- Blank screen

[Lev Olshvang]

I solved dbus connection problem by installing dbus-x11 package


Still have a problem with ICE  :  libxfcegui4-WARNING **: ICE I/O Error


Lev Olshvang wrote:



Hi All,

I have  stripped down  ubuntu 8.04no X windows (installed  with 
debootstrap)


Now I am adding XFCE desktop


XServer starts up normally (ps + Xorg.log) , but xfce gives strange 
errors and screen remains blank :


more .xsession-errors
Xsession: X session started for vbox at Thu May 21 20:41:42 UTC 2009


** (xfdesktop:6742): WARNING **: Unable to initialise D-Bus.  Some 
xfdesktop features may be unavailable.


** (xfdesktop:6742): WARNING **: Unable to initialise D-Bus.  Some 
xfdesktop features may be unavailable.


** (xfdesktop:6742): WARNING **: Unable to initialise D-Bus.  Some 
xfdesktop features may be unavailable.


** (xfdesktop:6742): WARNING **: Unable to initialise D-Bus.  Some 
xfdesktop features may be unavailable.


** (xfdesktop:6742): WARNING **: Unable to initialise D-Bus.  Some 
xfdesktop features may be unavailable.


(xfwm4:6733): libxfcegui4-WARNING **: ICE I/O Error

(xfwm4:6733): libxfcegui4-WARNING **: Disconnected from session manager.

(xfdesktop:6742): libxfcegui4-WARNING **: ICE I/O Error

(xfdesktop:6742): libxfcegui4-WARNING **: Disconnected from session 
manager.
xfce-mcs-manager: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) 
on X server :0.0.

xfwm4: Fatal IO error 2 (No such file or directory) on X server :0.0.
** Message: Xfce Menu: screen changed: 0

** Message: No valid plug window.

(xfce4-panel:6735): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_socket_get_id: assertion 
`GTK_WIDGET_ANCHORED (socket)' failed


** (xfce4-panel:6735): CRITICAL **: An item was unexpectedly removed: 
Xfce Menu.


(xfce4-panel:6735): libxfcegui4-WARNING **: ICE I/O Error

(xfce4-panel:6735): libxfcegui4-WARNING **: Disconnected from session 
manager.
xfce4-panel: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X 
server :0.0.
xfdesktop: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X 
server :0.0.


(xfce4-menu-plugin:6765): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0
Xsession: X session started for vbox at Thu May 21 20:49:42 UTC 2009



r...@lev:~# ps -ef |grep dbus
105   2262 1  0 20:46 ?00:00:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon 
--system



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Re: Help with printf

[Nadav Har'El]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008, Dan Bar Dov wrote about Help with printf:
...
 But if I put the format in a variable (as opposed to a string literal), I
 find that
 escape processing does not occur.
...
 and running (# is the prompt)
 # ./test %s flowers\n 7
 
 give the output
 7 flowers\n#

What you call escape processing, i.e., the conversion of the two characters
\n into one newline character (ASCII code 10), isn't done by the printf
library function - rather it is done by the C compiler!
When the C compiler sees the character \ followed by n inside a string
constant, it translates it into a newline character.

The shell does not normally do this translation, which is why your test
program gets the characters \ and n, not a newline.

There are several ways you can fix this problem. The most obvious one is
to parse the string in the C code, and do the replacement of \n into a
newline yourself. Another option is to have echo (sometimes a shell builtin,
sometimes an external program) do the replacement for you, as in:
./test `echo -n %s flowers\n` 7

Finally, if your intent is to write a printf-like tool for the shell, you
can just use the printf tool that comes from GNU's coreutils, that already
does its own backslash transformations. For example:

$ printf 1+1=%5d\n 2  
1+1=2

By the way, you can look at coreutil's printf code to see how it does the
backslash transformations (isn't free software great?)

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
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Re: Help with printf

[Yedidyah Bar-David]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 10:11:07AM +0300, Dan Bar Dov wrote:
 Usually we use printf with a string literal for the format,
 e.g.
 printf(%d flowers\n,count);
 
 But if I put the format in a variable (as opposed to a string literal), I
 find that
 escape processing does not occur.
 
 so using the program:
 
 void main(int ac, char **av)
 {
 printf(av[1],av[2]);
 }
 
 and running (# is the prompt)
 # ./test %s flowers\n 7
 
 give the output
 7 flowers\n#
 
 [same with # ./test %s flowers\\n 7 which yields 7 flowers\\n# ]
 
 Any idea how to get the variable containing the format to undergo escape
 sequence processing?

I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprized to hear that it's a measure
of a recent gcc/ld/glibc against format string attacks (google in case
you do not know enough about this). Did you try compiling with -Wall?
Did you try different versions of the gcc/ld/glibc toolchain?
-- 
Didi


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Re: Help with printf

[Dan Bar Dov]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On Wed, Jun 11, 2008, Dan Bar Dov wrote about Help with printf:
 ...
  But if I put the format in a variable (as opposed to a string literal), I
  find that
  escape processing does not occur.
 ...
  and running (# is the prompt)
  # ./test %s flowers\n 7
 
  give the output
  7 flowers\n#

 What you call escape processing, i.e., the conversion of the two
 characters
 \n into one newline character (ASCII code 10), isn't done by the printf
 library function - rather it is done by the C compiler!
 When the C compiler sees the character \ followed by n inside a string
 constant, it translates it into a newline character.


That explains it.



 The shell does not normally do this translation, which is why your test
 program gets the characters \ and n, not a newline.


I'm not using it from shell, that was just an example. I need to read
format strings from file
and use them to print stuff like error  reports (the error includes only
parameters, and the format string comes from a file.



 There are several ways you can fix this problem. The most obvious one is
 to parse the string in the C code, and do the replacement of \n into a


Is there a library function that does the conversion for me?

Thanks

Re: Help with printf

[Nadav Har'El]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008, Dan Bar Dov wrote about Re: Help with printf:
  There are several ways you can fix this problem. The most obvious one is
  to parse the string in the C code, and do the replacement of \n into a
 
 Is there a library function that does the conversion for me?

Not that I'm aware of. As I said, I suggest that you take a look at the
source of GNU's printf utility (not the C library function), and see
what they do.

If \n is the only one that interests you, then writing a function to do
this replacement yourself is trivial.

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Always go to other people's funerals,
http://nadav.harel.org.il   |otherwise they won't come to yours.

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Re: Help with printf

[Shachar Shemesh]

Dan Bar Dov wrote:



I'm not using it from shell, that was just an example. I need to read  
format strings from file
and use them to print stuff like error  reports (the error includes 
only parameters, and the format string comes from a file.


Please bear in mind that allowing a party to write your format strings 
for you is equivalent to giving them an known buffer overrun. A format 
string is enough to get arbitrary code to be run by the program.


Under many circumstances, that's ok. If the program is not a network 
program and is not SUID, and the format strings are manipulated by the 
same permission level that the program itself is installed with, then 
the attack vectors are blocked. I'm just trying to make you aware of it.


Shachar

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Re: help! resetting nm-applet on Hardy Herron to make wireless work again

[Amos Shapira]

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Micha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Have a look in /etc/network/interfaces if you see the wired (eth0
 probably) or
 wireless (wlan0 or eth1) delete their entry

 network manger doesn't like it when they appear there


You where right!

I was aware that NetworkManager looks at this file and from the googl'ing
around I realized that it won't deal with interfaces mentioned there, but
the entires that I found there were added by it so I didn't think of
removing them. Once I removed all entries (except for the loopback
interface) NetowrkManager resurrected from the dead and started working
again!

It looks like NetworkManager doesn't touch this file any more. It's still in
the same state as I edited it.

Maybe the old entries were created by Gutsy's (7.10) and somehow broke
Hardy's (8.04) together with my tweaking attempts.

Thanks very much!

--Amos

Re: help! resetting nm-applet on Hardy Herron to make wireless work again

[Aviram Jenik]

On Wednesday 14 May 2008 Amos Shapira wrote:
  Have a look in /etc/network/interfaces 

 I was aware that NetworkManager looks at this file and from the googl'ing
 around I realized that it won't deal with interfaces mentioned there, but
 the entires that I found there were added by it so I didn't think of
 removing them. Once I removed all entries (except for the loopback
 interface) NetowrkManager resurrected from the dead and started working
 again!

NetworkManager doesn't add entries to /etc/network/interfaces and never did 
AFAIK .


 Maybe the old entries were created by Gutsy's (7.10) and somehow broke
 Hardy's (8.04) together with my tweaking attempts.

If I were you I would try to figure out what made the changes, since if they 
come back it will again cause NM to ignore the interfaces. And you already 
know what it's like trying to debug NM when it doesn't work...


 --Amos

- Aviram

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Re: help! resetting nm-applet on Hardy Herron to make wireless work again

[Amos Shapira]

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Aviram Jenik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Wednesday 14 May 2008 Amos Shapira wrote:
   Have a look in /etc/network/interfaces
 
  I was aware that NetworkManager looks at this file and from the
 googl'ing
  around I realized that it won't deal with interfaces mentioned there,
 but
  the entires that I found there were added by it so I didn't think of
  removing them. Once I removed all entries (except for the loopback
  interface) NetowrkManager resurrected from the dead and started working
  again!

 NetworkManager doesn't add entries to /etc/network/interfaces and never
 did
 AFAIK .


Thanks for the update. I got the impression that something changed in the
way it works across the Gutsy-Hardy versions.

 
  Maybe the old entries were created by Gutsy's (7.10) and somehow broke
  Hardy's (8.04) together with my tweaking attempts.


 If I were you I would try to figure out what made the changes, since if
 they
 come back it will again cause NM to ignore the interfaces. And you already
 know what it's like trying to debug NM when it doesn't work...


Could it be that:
1. Some of the command line tools I executed while trying to force NM to
accept the non-working access point could have made the change?
2. nm-applet touched this file?

Anyway:
1. It worked flowlessly with Gutsy since around December and with Hardy for
the last two-three weeks.
2. I did all sorts of stuff to try to force it to work with that particular
access point. It MUST have been something I did then.

Now to another question which I intended to leave to another thread but
anyway:

The reason this AP didn't work for me was that the way nm-applet works is
that it asks interactively for the pass key when it finds a new AP.
The only form of the pass key that I had was in hex string. I copy/pasted it
multiple times into the input field but it didn't accept it.
Is there some special format that I should use in order to enter hex pass
keys?

Thanks,

--Amos

Re: help! resetting nm-applet on Hardy Herron to make wireless work again

[Micha]

On Wed, 14 May 2008 22:23:01 +1000
Amos Shapira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Aviram Jenik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On Wednesday 14 May 2008 Amos Shapira wrote:
Have a look in /etc/network/interfaces
  
   I was aware that NetworkManager looks at this file and from the
  googl'ing
   around I realized that it won't deal with interfaces mentioned there,
  but
   the entires that I found there were added by it so I didn't think of
   removing them. Once I removed all entries (except for the loopback
   interface) NetowrkManager resurrected from the dead and started working
   again!
 
  NetworkManager doesn't add entries to /etc/network/interfaces and never
  did
  AFAIK .
 
 
 Thanks for the update. I got the impression that something changed in the
 way it works across the Gutsy-Hardy versions.
 

A few months ago when I installed this machine, network-manager worked with
entries in that file. I later removed them, so could be that the initial
installation installed them.

  
   Maybe the old entries were created by Gutsy's (7.10) and somehow broke
   Hardy's (8.04) together with my tweaking attempts.
 
 
  If I were you I would try to figure out what made the changes, since if
  they
  come back it will again cause NM to ignore the interfaces. And you already
  know what it's like trying to debug NM when it doesn't work...
 

Could be that something in the gnome network menus inserted them. Don't know
those menu options. Network manager doesn't edit that file.

 
 Could it be that:
 1. Some of the command line tools I executed while trying to force NM to
 accept the non-working access point could have made the change?
 2. nm-applet touched this file?
 
 Anyway:
 1. It worked flowlessly with Gutsy since around December and with Hardy for
 the last two-three weeks.
 2. I did all sorts of stuff to try to force it to work with that particular
 access point. It MUST have been something I did then.
 
 Now to another question which I intended to leave to another thread but
 anyway:
 
 The reason this AP didn't work for me was that the way nm-applet works is
 that it asks interactively for the pass key when it finds a new AP.
 The only form of the pass key that I had was in hex string. I copy/pasted it
 multiple times into the input field but it didn't accept it.
 Is there some special format that I should use in order to enter hex pass
 keys?
 
 Thanks,
 
 --Amos

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Re: help! resetting nm-applet on Hardy Herron to make wireless work again

[Noam Rathaus]

Hi,

I had similar issues with a DELL Insprion 1310 - the issues are caused by the 
proprietary Wireless card and in addequate support by the NDIS driver used by 
Ubuntu.

Is this the case for you too?

On Sunday 11 May 2008 11:59:59 Amos Shapira wrote:
 Hello,

 Yesterday I visited a site where I couldn't make Ubuntu 8.04 on my
 laptop accept the WiFi pass key. During the tweaks I made to try to
 make it work I also clicked off the Enable Roaming and other stuff.

 Now that I'm back at home nothing I do would convince NetworkManager
 to connect to my local WiFi. I enabled roaming back again but all I
 see then I click on the left mouse button is Wired Network grayed
 out (possibly because there is no connection on the wired network),
 VPN Connections sub-menu and Manual Configuration, and when I
 click on the right mouse button I get Enable Network checked.

 Manual Configuration only gives me the usual Enable Roaming option
 for both wireless and wired networks, which doesn't seem to make a
 difference?

 How can I reset NetworkManager to the way it worked before?

 Note that I don't want to loose the three network pass keys I have
 saved for the networks that used to work for me before this incident.

 Thanks.

 --Amos

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CTO
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.beyondsecurity.com

Know that you are safe.

Beyond Security Finalist for the Red Herring 100 Global Awards 2007

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Re: help! resetting nm-applet on Hardy Herron to make wireless work again

[Ohad Levy]

I also had a similar problem on my iw4695 card. eventually I've found myself
switching to wicd instead of NetworkManager.

many times, if you just need to reset it, you can kill the network manager
process and run it again, (as far as I know, it wont be restarted using the
init scripts).

Ohad

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Noam Rathaus [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi,

 I had similar issues with a DELL Insprion 1310 - the issues are caused by
 the
 proprietary Wireless card and in addequate support by the NDIS driver used
 by
 Ubuntu.

 Is this the case for you too?

 On Sunday 11 May 2008 11:59:59 Amos Shapira wrote:
  Hello,
 
  Yesterday I visited a site where I couldn't make Ubuntu 8.04 on my
  laptop accept the WiFi pass key. During the tweaks I made to try to
  make it work I also clicked off the Enable Roaming and other stuff.
 
  Now that I'm back at home nothing I do would convince NetworkManager
  to connect to my local WiFi. I enabled roaming back again but all I
  see then I click on the left mouse button is Wired Network grayed
  out (possibly because there is no connection on the wired network),
  VPN Connections sub-menu and Manual Configuration, and when I
  click on the right mouse button I get Enable Network checked.
 
  Manual Configuration only gives me the usual Enable Roaming option
  for both wireless and wired networks, which doesn't seem to make a
  difference?
 
  How can I reset NetworkManager to the way it worked before?
 
  Note that I don't want to loose the three network pass keys I have
  saved for the networks that used to work for me before this incident.
 
  Thanks.
 
  --Amos
 
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 --
 Noam Rathaus
 CTO
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.beyondsecurity.com

 Know that you are safe.

 Beyond Security Finalist for the Red Herring 100 Global Awards 2007

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Re: help! resetting nm-applet on Hardy Herron to make wireless work again

[Amos Shapira]

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Noam Rathaus [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi,

 I had similar issues with a DELL Insprion 1310 - the issues are caused by
 the
 proprietary Wireless card and in addequate support by the NDIS driver used
 by
 Ubuntu.

 Is this the case for you too?


I don;t think so. The internal wiress device worked flowlessly ever since I
learned about the external physical switch which disables it, with all the
wireless networks that I tried to connect to. The only times I had troubles
were when I tried to mess with the NetowrkManager.

Even in the site where it broke for me, it could see the access point
alright but I just didn't know how to give it the pass key in hex and when I
tried to play around with the gui to force it then it didn't recover.

It feels to me much more like a GUI/design issue rather than a
hardware/driver problem.

Thanks.

--Amos

Re: help! resetting nm-applet on Hardy Herron to make wireless work again

[Amos Shapira]

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Ohad Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I also had a similar problem on my iw4695 card. eventually I've found
 myself switching to wicd instead of NetworkManager.


Thanks. I'll have to check which chipset is on this device but would it mean
anything if I tell you that it worked for me right out of the box without
requiring me to request proprietary driver support?

Also - all this time I can see the access points with the command line tools
and in the logs, it's just that the NetworkManager, possibly because of
something weird its front end (nm-applet?) did, stopped configuring things
correctly.


 many times, if you just need to reset it, you can kill the network manager
 process and run it again, (as far as I know, it wont be restarted using the
 init scripts).


I usually hibernate my laptop but I tried also a complete reboot to no
avail. I get exactly the same behaviour.

I already looked around at wicd after hearing recommendations from several
people in the last couple of weeks, I might give it a try.

Thanks,

--Amos

Re: HELP: apache handling one connection every two seconds

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 07:31:59AM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote:

 Just so we know that this is not a user space problem. The same problem 
 happens when I run netcat as a listener on port 80. By the time it sees 
 a single request, netstat claims to have several hundred SYN_RECV 
 connections.

Do a netstat with reverse DNS turned off. Does it work? I've been
having a lot of DNS problems recently.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]  N3OWJ/4X1GM

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Re: HELP: apache handling one connection every two seconds

[Shachar Shemesh]

Shachar Shemesh wrote:


Ideas?

Just so we know that this is not a user space problem. The same problem 
happens when I run netcat as a listener on port 80. By the time it sees 
a single request, netstat claims to have several hundred SYN_RECV 
connections.


Shachar

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Re: help with fonts

[Dan Bar Dov]

Bingo, the mstfonts did the work.

Many thanks Hetz

Dan

On Dec 4, 2007 7:06 PM, Hetz Ben Hamo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,

 You can try to install either culmus RPM package or use the MS core
 fonts (http://corefonts.sf.net)

 Thanks,
 Hetz

 On 12/4/07, Dan Bar Dov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  And, I alreadey tried to install ie4linux with HE locale, then I got all
 the
  IE menus in gibberish, and walla
  still opened with no Hebrew dfonts
 
  On Dec 4, 2007 5:50 PM, Dan Bar Dov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   I *need* to run ie6 on my fedora 7, for Hebrew sites that use asp.
  
   When I was on fedora 6, it worked ok. Now I don't get any Hebrew
 fonts.
   I probably botched something in the installation, anyone knows what?
  
   Thanks,
   Dan
  
 


 --
 Skepticism is the lazy person's default position.
 my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org

Re: help with fonts

[Dan Bar Dov]

And, I alreadey tried to install ie4linux with HE locale, then I got all the
IE menus in gibberish, and walla
still opened with no Hebrew dfonts

On Dec 4, 2007 5:50 PM, Dan Bar Dov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I *need* to run ie6 on my fedora 7, for Hebrew sites that use asp.

 When I was on fedora 6, it worked ok. Now I don't get any Hebrew fonts.
 I probably botched something in the installation, anyone knows what?

 Thanks,
 Dan

Re: help with fonts

[Hetz Ben Hamo]

Hi,

You can try to install either culmus RPM package or use the MS core
fonts (http://corefonts.sf.net)

Thanks,
Hetz

On 12/4/07, Dan Bar Dov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 And, I alreadey tried to install ie4linux with HE locale, then I got all the
 IE menus in gibberish, and walla
 still opened with no Hebrew dfonts

 On Dec 4, 2007 5:50 PM, Dan Bar Dov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I *need* to run ie6 on my fedora 7, for Hebrew sites that use asp.
 
  When I was on fedora 6, it worked ok. Now I don't get any Hebrew fonts.
  I probably botched something in the installation, anyone knows what?
 
  Thanks,
  Dan
 



-- 
Skepticism is the lazy person's default position.
my blog (hebrew): http://benhamo.org

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Re: help with DNS?

[Shahar Tamir]

On Friday 03 August 2007, Dan Bar Dov wrote:
 Well, seems like setting the ISP DNS in resolv.conf did the trick, however,
 the dhcp-client script changes resolv.conf on boot.

 In ubuntu there's a way to configure static entries that the dhcp-client
 uses, I cannot find anything similar in FC6, Ideas?

Try setting the router's dhcp to only supply the ISP dns servers, instead of 
itself.

Shahar

 Dan

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Re: help with DNS?

[Dan Bar Dov]

FC6 has IPv6 enabled by default? How do I disable?

Thanks,
Dan

On 8/3/07, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Dan Bar Dov wrote:
  Guys, I need a little help.
 
  I installed a Fedora core 6 at home. Its connected to the network
  through a switch
  that connects to my ADSL router which is the DHCP server.
 
  What am I missing?
 An ADSL router that does not get confused by IPV6. I believe you will
 find that firefox resolves all addresses to 1.1.1.1 or something
 similarly senseless. If you disable IPV6 on you machine, all should be ok.
 
  Thanks,
  Dan
 
 Shachar

Re: help with DNS?

[Shachar Shemesh]

Dan Bar Dov wrote:
 Guys, I need a little help.

 I installed a Fedora core 6 at home. Its connected to the network
 through a switch
 that connects to my ADSL router which is the DHCP server.

 What am I missing?
An ADSL router that does not get confused by IPV6. I believe you will
find that firefox resolves all addresses to 1.1.1.1 or something
similarly senseless. If you disable IPV6 on you machine, all should be ok.

 Thanks,
 Dan

Shachar

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Re: help with DNS?

[shimi]

On Friday 03 August 2007 13:59, Dan Bar Dov wrote:
 Guys, I need a little help.

 I installed a Fedora core 6 at home. Its connected to the network through a
 switch
 that connects to my ADSL router which is the DHCP server.

 using host(1) on www.cnn.com, or other internet addresses works. But
 firefox (1.5) won't resolve network addreses.
 Entering the IP in the browser works fine.

 My /etc/resolv.conf has 192.168.1.1 (the ADSL router), and I added my ISP's
 DNS servers
 addresses as well so it now has 3 nameserver entries. nsswitch.conf has
 host: files dns: entry.

 What am I missing?


What happens if you REMOVE 192.168.1.1 from /etc/resolv.conf - and leave only 
the ISP's nameservers?

-- Shimi

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Re: help with DNS?

[Dan Bar Dov]

Well, seems like setting the ISP DNS in resolv.conf did the trick, however,
the dhcp-client script changes resolv.conf on boot.

In ubuntu there's a way to configure static entries that the dhcp-client
uses, I cannot find anything similar in FC6, Ideas?

Dan

On 8/3/07, shimi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Friday 03 August 2007 13:59, Dan Bar Dov wrote:
  Guys, I need a little help.
 
  I installed a Fedora core 6 at home. Its connected to the network
 through a
  switch
  that connects to my ADSL router which is the DHCP server.
 
  using host(1) on www.cnn.com, or other internet addresses works. But
  firefox (1.5) won't resolve network addreses.
  Entering the IP in the browser works fine.
 
  My /etc/resolv.conf has 192.168.1.1 (the ADSL router), and I added my
 ISP's
  DNS servers
  addresses as well so it now has 3 nameserver entries. nsswitch.conf has
  host: files dns: entry.
 
  What am I missing?
 

 What happens if you REMOVE 192.168.1.1 from /etc/resolv.conf - and leave
 only
 the ISP's nameservers?

 -- Shimi

Re: help with DNS?

[shimi]

I don't know which DHCP client is being used in FC (dhclient? dhcpcd?) - so it 
would be hard to say :)

A universal trick to solve the problem (some might consider it ugly...) :

1. Change DNS settings as appropriate
2. chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf

-- Shimi

On Friday 03 August 2007 16:56, Dan Bar Dov wrote:
 Well, seems like setting the ISP DNS in resolv.conf did the trick, however,
 the dhcp-client script changes resolv.conf on boot.

 In ubuntu there's a way to configure static entries that the dhcp-client
 uses, I cannot find anything similar in FC6, Ideas?

 Dan

 On 8/3/07, shimi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Friday 03 August 2007 13:59, Dan Bar Dov wrote:
   Guys, I need a little help.
  
   I installed a Fedora core 6 at home. Its connected to the network
 
  through a
 
   switch
   that connects to my ADSL router which is the DHCP server.
  
   using host(1) on www.cnn.com, or other internet addresses works. But
   firefox (1.5) won't resolve network addreses.
   Entering the IP in the browser works fine.
  
   My /etc/resolv.conf has 192.168.1.1 (the ADSL router), and I added my
 
  ISP's
 
   DNS servers
   addresses as well so it now has 3 nameserver entries. nsswitch.conf has
   host: files dns: entry.
  
   What am I missing?
 
  What happens if you REMOVE 192.168.1.1 from /etc/resolv.conf - and leave
  only
  the ISP's nameservers?
 
  -- Shimi

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Re: help with DNS?

[Dan Bar Dov]

Ah, /etc/sysconfig/network
I disabled ipv6
I restarted network services, restarted firefox
still firefox lookups fail.

Dan


On 8/3/07, Dan Bar Dov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 FC6 has IPv6 enabled by default? How do I disable?

 Thanks,
 Dan

 On 8/3/07, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
 
  Dan Bar Dov wrote:
   Guys, I need a little help.
  
   I installed a Fedora core 6 at home. Its connected to the network
   through a switch
   that connects to my ADSL router which is the DHCP server.
  
   What am I missing?
  An ADSL router that does not get confused by IPV6. I believe you will
  find that firefox resolves all addresses to  1.1.1.1 or something
  similarly senseless. If you disable IPV6 on you machine, all should be
  ok.
  
   Thanks,
   Dan
  
  Shachar
 

Re: help with DNS?

[Amos Shapira]

On 03/08/07, Dan Bar Dov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 FC6 has IPv6 enabled by default? How do I disable?


Not sure about FC but on Debian you can add blacklist ipv6 to
/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist, and just rmmod ipv6 in order to disable it before
the next reboot.

Thanks,
 Dan


--Amos

Re: help with DNS?

[Micha Silver]

Dan Bar Dov wrote:

Well, seems like setting the ISP DNS in resolv.conf did the trick, 
however,

the dhcp-client script changes resolv.conf on boot.

In ubuntu there's a way to configure static entries that the 
dhcp-client uses, I cannot find anything similar in FC6, Ideas?



Try putting in your /etc/dhclient-eth0.conf :
supersede domain-name-servers IP_of_DNS, IP_of_DNS2 ;
--
Micha

Dan



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Re: Help with Linux on sparc64

[Mike Tewner]

On 7/31/07, Rami Rosen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello Nadav,

 What binary distribution has the best support for Sun machines?

 The first distribution which was equipped with support for Sun SPARC64
 is Ubuntu; this happened after some attempts to boot Fedora Core (by
 Dave Miller and others) failed giving panic.

 This of course does not imply the Ubuntu is the best one , but it is
 the most veteran
 in this field. So I suggest you try it (you can try Ubuntu live-cd
 first to see what are the results).


That's a very dangerous statement - I've installed at least 3 linux distros
on my 64-bit ultra5 years before Ubuntu was created. Granted, one of them
was debian :-)


but after boot the keyboard stops working (It only has USB
 keyboardmouse).

 to make sure this keyboard is identified please
 try : tail -f /var/log/messages, and then
 unplug the USB keyboard and plug it back in. Do you see any messages ?

 Regards,
 Rami Rosen






 On 7/26/07, Nadav Shemer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi. I have a Sun Ultra 45 and I've tried (unsuccessfully) to install
   some kind of Linux distribution on it.
   I've tried Debian netinst (both stable and testing) and Gentoo (stage2)
   CDs, but after boot the keyboard stops working (It only has USB
   keyboardmouse).
   Booting from the serial console, It hangs with the following message:
   su: Cannot register IRQ 1
 
   Has anyone had any luck with this particular machine?
   What binary distribution has the best support for Sun machines?
   Can anyone help me?
 
   Nadav Shemer
   Tehuti Networks
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 

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Re: Help with Linux on sparc64

[Rami Rosen]

Hello,

I've installed at least 3 linux distros
 on my 64-bit ultra5 years before Ubuntu was created

Regarding ultra5  - you are right.
The Ubuntu distribution was to first to run on a Niagra SPARC64 machines.
I should have mention this.


Regards,
Rami Rosen



On 7/31/07, Mike Tewner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 7/31/07, Rami Rosen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hello Nadav,
 
  What binary distribution has the best support for Sun machines?
 
  The first distribution which was equipped with support for Sun SPARC64
  is Ubuntu; this happened after some attempts to boot Fedora Core (by
  Dave Miller and others) failed giving panic.
 
  This of course does not imply the Ubuntu is the best one , but it is
  the most veteran
  in this field. So I suggest you try it (you can try Ubuntu live-cd
  first to see what are the results).

 That's a very dangerous statement - I've installed at least 3 linux distros
 on my 64-bit ultra5 years before Ubuntu was created. Granted, one of them
 was debian :-)


  but after boot the keyboard stops working (It only has USB
  keyboardmouse).
 
  to make sure this keyboard is identified please
  try : tail -f /var/log/messages, and then
  unplug the USB keyboard and plug it back in. Do you see any messages ?
 
  Regards,
  Rami Rosen
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On 7/26/07, Nadav Shemer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Hi. I have a Sun Ultra 45 and I've tried (unsuccessfully) to install
some kind of Linux distribution on it.
I've tried Debian netinst (both stable and testing) and Gentoo (stage2)
CDs, but after boot the keyboard stops working (It only has USB
keyboardmouse).
Booting from the serial console, It hangs with the following message:
su: Cannot register IRQ 1
  
Has anyone had any luck with this particular machine?
What binary distribution has the best support for Sun machines?
Can anyone help me?
  
Nadav Shemer
Tehuti Networks
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
 
 
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Re: Help with Linux on sparc64

[Rami Rosen]

Hello Nadav,

What binary distribution has the best support for Sun machines?

The first distribution which was equipped with support for Sun SPARC64
is Ubuntu; this happened after some attempts to boot Fedora Core (by
Dave Miller and others) failed giving panic.

This of course does not imply the Ubuntu is the best one , but it is
the most veteran
in this field. So I suggest you try it (you can try Ubuntu live-cd
first to see what are the results).

but after boot the keyboard stops working (It only has USB
keyboardmouse).

to make sure this keyboard is identified please
try : tail -f /var/log/messages, and then
unplug the USB keyboard and plug it back in. Do you see any messages ?

Regards,
Rami Rosen






On 7/26/07, Nadav Shemer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi. I have a Sun Ultra 45 and I've tried (unsuccessfully) to install
  some kind of Linux distribution on it.
  I've tried Debian netinst (both stable and testing) and Gentoo (stage2)
  CDs, but after boot the keyboard stops working (It only has USB
  keyboardmouse).
  Booting from the serial console, It hangs with the following message:
  su: Cannot register IRQ 1

  Has anyone had any luck with this particular machine?
  What binary distribution has the best support for Sun machines?
  Can anyone help me?

  Nadav Shemer
  Tehuti Networks
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Help with Linux on sparc64

[Mike Tewner]

I installed linux on my ultra5 quite a bit ago.

Have you cheked out ultralinux, or better yet,  auroralinux.org?

-mike


On 7/27/07, Nadav Shemer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thank you for your comments. I'll definitely try stage 3.

 On 7/27/07, Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
 
  Before you attempt to get
  Linux to run on it, it would be a good idea to make sure there
  is not a hardware problem.


 I started the process with a machine running Solaris. I cleared out a
 slice, intending on installing linux on it.

 Nadav

Re: Help with Linux on sparc64

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

On Thu, Jul 26, 2007 at 07:19:53PM +0300, Nadav Shemer wrote:
 Hi. I have a Sun Ultra 45 and I've tried (unsuccessfully) to install
 some kind of Linux distribution on it.
 I've tried Debian netinst (both stable and testing) and Gentoo (stage2)
 CDs, but after boot the keyboard stops working (It only has USB
 keyboardmouse).
 Booting from the serial console, It hangs with the following message:
 su: Cannot register IRQ 1
 
 Has anyone had any luck with this particular machine?
 What binary distribution has the best support for Sun machines?
 Can anyone help me?


What happens when you boot with Solaris? Before you attempt to get
Linux to run on it, it would be a good idea to make sure there
is not a hardware problem.

Geoff.
-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]  N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

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Re: Help with Linux on sparc64

[Nadav Shemer]

Thank you for your comments. I'll definitely try stage 3.

On 7/27/07, Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Before you attempt to get
 Linux to run on it, it would be a good idea to make sure there
 is not a hardware problem.


I started the process with a machine running Solaris. I cleared out a slice,
intending on installing linux on it.

Nadav

Re: Help with sound card

[Moshe Gorohovsky]

Hi Orr,

Try switching external amplifier in alsamixer on or off,
this had helped me with a similar microfone issue a while ago.

Use full view in alsamixer to see all alsa settings and controls.
New kernel can introduce new alsa setting or control that
you do not see in your current configuration.

When you use a vanilla kernel (compiled your own kernel)
you must use alsa-tools, alsa-lib, alsa-utils, etc. from
alsa-project.org. Do not use FC6 alsa-tools on non-FC6 kernels.

- Moshe

Orr Dunkelman wrote:
 Long story short: Laptop, sound card, microphone doesn't work. Windows -
 work.
 
 Laptop: Compaq Evo N800V (four years old)
 FC6. Standard. Kernel - 2.6.20.4 - manually compiled.
 
 modules (courtesy of lsmod):
 
 snd_intel8x0   31644  4
 snd_ac97_codec 89508  1 snd_intel8x0
 ac97_bus2560  1 snd_ac97_codec
 snd_seq_dummy   3972  0
 snd_seq_oss29312  0
 snd_seq_midi_event  7296  1 snd_seq_oss
 snd_seq45808  5
 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event
 snd_seq_device  7948  3 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq
 snd_pcm_oss39552  0
 snd_mixer_oss  15616  3 snd_pcm_oss
 parport_pc 26020  1
 snd_pcm71172  3 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss
 snd_timer  21252  2 snd_seq,snd_pcm
 pcmcia_core39716  3 pcmcia,yenta_socket,rsrc_nonstatic
 snd49668  13
 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer
 
 soundcore   7776  3 snd
 snd_page_alloc  9992  2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
 pcspkr  3328  0
 
 playes with alsamixer.
 
 results:
 
 when microphone is on, switch: Microphone Capture, I hear from the speakers
 whatever I say into the mic.
 when it's off - nothing.
 
 Tried all combinations of
 Line-in capture, microphone capture, +20 db Boost, and IEC 958.
 Tried both mic1 and mic2 for inputs (surprisingly only mic1 works).
 
 No other sound device (especially not a mic).
 
 Permissions:
 /dev/dsp and /dev/snd/*
 were user.root and user.user, permission 600.
 none worked.
 
 anyone with some guess why this happens? google tells me a lot about two
 sound cards, but I have only one, and alsamixer does not solve the problem.
 
 Thanks!
 

-- 
Moshe Gorohovsky

A6 CC A7 E1 C2 BD 8C 1B  30 8E A4 C3 4C 09 88 47   Tk Open Systems Ltd.
---
 - Tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -

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Re: Help with sound card

[Tzahi Fadida]

Just FYI,
It is a known issue that many times skype will not work without Microphone 
capture on.

On Thursday 12 April 2007 01:00:31 Orr Dunkelman wrote:
 Long story short: Laptop, sound card, microphone doesn't work. Windows -
 work.

 Laptop: Compaq Evo N800V (four years old)
 FC6. Standard. Kernel - 2.6.20.4 - manually compiled.

 modules (courtesy of lsmod):

 snd_intel8x0   31644  4
 snd_ac97_codec 89508  1 snd_intel8x0
 ac97_bus2560  1 snd_ac97_codec
 snd_seq_dummy   3972  0
 snd_seq_oss29312  0
 snd_seq_midi_event  7296  1 snd_seq_oss
 snd_seq45808  5
 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event snd_seq_device  7948 
 3 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq
 snd_pcm_oss39552  0
 snd_mixer_oss  15616  3 snd_pcm_oss
 parport_pc 26020  1
 snd_pcm71172  3 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss
 snd_timer  21252  2 snd_seq,snd_pcm
 pcmcia_core39716  3 pcmcia,yenta_socket,rsrc_nonstatic
 snd49668  13
 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_pcm_oss,
snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer soundcore   7776  3 snd
 snd_page_alloc  9992  2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
 pcspkr  3328  0

 playes with alsamixer.

 results:

 when microphone is on, switch: Microphone Capture, I hear from the speakers
 whatever I say into the mic.
 when it's off - nothing.

 Tried all combinations of
 Line-in capture, microphone capture, +20 db Boost, and IEC 958.
 Tried both mic1 and mic2 for inputs (surprisingly only mic1 works).

 No other sound device (especially not a mic).

 Permissions:
 /dev/dsp and /dev/snd/*
 were user.root and user.user, permission 600.
 none worked.

 anyone with some guess why this happens? google tells me a lot about two
 sound cards, but I have only one, and alsamixer does not solve the problem.

 Thanks!



-- 
Regards,
Tzahi.
--
Tzahi Fadida
Blog: http://tzahi.blogsite.org | Home Site: http://tzahi.webhop.info
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Re: Help with Barak's no-dailer account. (HOT)

[ik]

Well, You do not have to do anything, it's Barak that needs to talk
with HOT to change your IP. And even if you will have a communication
with HOT, they will tell you to talk with Barak, that will request
such a change.

Ido

On 4/4/07, Gilboa Davara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello all,

I just switched from Netvision to Barak and upon saying the magic word
Linux to their sales person, they immediately set me up with a
non-dialer account. (Read: No
pptp/l2tp/ppoe/insert-favorite-tunneling-protocol-name-here)

My question is rather simple:
Which DHCP parameters do I need to pass to HOT's DHCP server in-order to
get a barak IP?
Do I need to register my MAC/hostname/option82/etc somewhere? *

Thanks,
- Gilboa
* I found nothing on Internet, and Barak's FAQ only talks about
what-seems-to-be their Windows l2tp dialer and I rather not spend the
next two hours on the phone waiting for their tech support to
answer... :(



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--
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Re: Help with Barak's no-dailer account. (HOT)

[Gilboa Davara]

On 4/4/07, ik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Well, You do not have to do anything, it's Barak that needs to talk
with HOT to change your IP. And even if you will have a communication
with HOT, they will tell you to talk with Barak, that will request
such a change.

Ido

On 4/4/07, Gilboa Davara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello all,

 I just switched from Netvision to Barak and upon saying the magic word
 Linux to their sales person, they immediately set me up with a
 non-dialer account. (Read: No
 pptp/l2tp/ppoe/insert-favorite-tunneling-protocol-name-here)

 My question is rather simple:
 Which DHCP parameters do I need to pass to HOT's DHCP server in-order to
 get a barak IP?
 Do I need to register my MAC/hostname/option82/etc somewhere? *

 Thanks,
 - Gilboa
 * I found nothing on Internet, and Barak's FAQ only talks about
 what-seems-to-be their Windows l2tp dialer and I rather not spend the
 next two hours on the phone waiting for their tech support to
 answer... :(



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Oh... OK.
Thanks.

- Gilboa

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Re: help my bash is gone

[Amit Aronovitch]

Amos Shapira wrote:

On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Hi all,

I have this strange behaviour that when I open a new term session or
even in an existing term sesstion I will execute a common command such
as ls or cd and the shell returns command not found. usually I can close



cd command not found?? cd is an internal shell command (doesn't make
sense to run it in a separate process). Are you sure that's what happened?
  


What's the exact error message? It should be something like
-bash: exact commandname: command not found

 Any other format might mean you are not really running bash, or that
bash is not really seeing the command you typed (e.g. bad aliases, bad
readline library, problems with keyboard/X/tty driver, etc.)

 And what's a term session? Do you mean an X terminal, ssh/telnet from
other machine, or a VC (text mode)?


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Re: help my bash is gone

[Aaron]

On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 09:54 +0200, Amit Aronovitch wrote:
 Amos Shapira wrote:
 
 On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 
 Hi all,
 
 I have this strange behaviour that when I open a new term session or
 even in an existing term sesstion I will execute a common command such
 as ls or cd and the shell returns command not found. usually I can close
 
 
 
 cd command not found?? cd is an internal shell command (doesn't make
 sense to run it in a separate process). Are you sure that's what happened?
   
 
seperate process?
 
 What's the exact error message? It should be something like
 -bash: exact commandname: command not found
 
-bash: ls:command not found

was from ctrl alt F2

but the same thing on term windows

I us konsole if it matters

It happens randomly and often after time when I open a new term.
Aaron

  Any other format might mean you are not really running bash, or that
 bash is not really seeing the command you typed (e.g. bad aliases, bad
 readline library, problems with keyboard/X/tty driver, etc.)
 
  And what's a term session? Do you mean an X terminal, ssh/telnet from
 other machine, or a VC (text mode)?
 
 
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RE: help my bash is gone

[El-al, Netta]

iirc, something very similar happened to me a few days before my hard disk 
died. if i were you, i'd backup my hard disk completely now.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Aaron
 Sent: Mon, October 31, 2005 2:35 AM
 To: linux-il@linux.org.il
 Subject: help my bash is gone
 
 
 Hi all,
 
 I have this strange behaviour that when I open a new term session or
 even in an existing term sesstion I will execute a common command such
 as ls or cd and the shell returns command not found. usually 
 I can close
 that session and open another and things work again, sometimes I must
 log out and back in  and sometimes (rarely ) that doesn't help.
 
 
 I am using demudi which is debian and this once happened while I was
 having other problems and I was forced to reinstall since I 
 couldn't use
 the command line
 
 Any thoughts on what might be causing this very strange 
 behaviour would
 be most appreciated.
 
 Aaron
 
 
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Re: help my bash is gone

[Amos Shapira]

On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -bash: ls:command not found

 was from ctrl alt F2

 but the same thing on term windows

 I us konsole if it matters

 It happens randomly and often after time when I open a new term.

1. what does dmesg show you right after this? Do you see any disk read
errors?
2. Take Neta's advise and backup your disk NOW.
3. Maybe I'm jumping into conclusion but try running some SMART disk tests
with smartctl(8) (see the section about the -t option). Apparently an offline
test on my Maxtor disk helped it heal its bad blocks (but I still switched
to a new disk, use the old disk as expandable don't-care-much-if-it-fails
area).

 Aaron

--Amos

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Re: help my bash is gone

[Aaron]

no dmeg gave not errors



On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 22:08 +1000, Amos Shapira wrote:
 On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  -bash: ls:command not found
 
  was from ctrl alt F2
 
  but the same thing on term windows
 
  I us konsole if it matters
 
  It happens randomly and often after time when I open a new term.
 
 1. what does dmesg show you right after this? Do you see any disk read
 errors?
 2. Take Neta's advise and backup your disk NOW.
 3. Maybe I'm jumping into conclusion but try running some SMART disk tests
 with smartctl(8) (see the section about the -t option). Apparently an 
 offline
 test on my Maxtor disk helped it heal its bad blocks (but I still switched
 to a new disk, use the old disk as expandable don't-care-much-if-it-fails
 area).
 
  Aaron
 
 --Amos
 Unpacking smartmontools (from 
 .../smartmontools_5.33+5.34cvs20050802-3_i386.deb) ...
Setting up smartmontools (5.33+5.34cvs20050802-3) ...
Not starting S.M.A.R.T. daemon smartd, disabled
via /etc/default/smartmontools

demudi:/usr/src#   

hmn

Aaron


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Re: help my bash is gone

[Amit Aronovitch]

The problem with this issue, is that there is a wide range of possible
causes to this problem, spanning a large 'diagnosis tree'. This makes it
hard to diagnose by iterative mail questions.
I'll try to ask enough questions to cover the more reasonable? causes.

Aaron wrote:

cd command not found?? cd is an internal shell command (doesn't make
sense to run it in a separate process). Are you sure that's what happened?
 

  

seperate process?
  

I think what Amos means is that for cd it's a different matter than e.g.
for ls.
When you type ls, bash searches for the command on your path, and if
found runs it in a subprocess. If your path, or the disk containing the
executable (normally /bin/ls) is broken, you get the message you got below.
  However since cd is an internal command, bash should run it directly
(there is no 'cd' executable, it's the bash executable that does the
job), so we'd be very surprised if you see similiar message for the 'cd'
command too. Were you just giving an example or did you actually see a
'-bash: cd: command not found'? I can hardly imagine how this could
happen - unless the bash executable itself is broken.

What's the exact error message? It should be something like
-bash: exact commandname: command not found



-bash: ls:command not found

  

OK, so we know it's bash, and we know it knows you typed ls (unless
there are some mysterious unprintables hidden over there), rules out a
few exotic possibilities.
What about if you try explicit path: /bin/ls ? Can you access /bin at
all? I would have said try ls'ing it, but since you don't have ls...
what happens if you type /bitab? does it complete? if yes, try another
tab to see what's there...

If there is a working /bin/ls, then it's your PATH. Were the echo
$PATH results you mentioned before done from a working terminal? If
yes, try from a non-working one (echo, like cd, is an internal command -
if it does not work, either you have a bad alias or your bash executable
is bad).

If you see no /bin or no /bin/ls, indeed the most probable cause would
be a bad disk/ bad file-system. When this happens, try switching to
another (working) shell, and see if you can access /bin/ls from there.
If you can run /bin/df, try /bin/df / and /bin/df /bin.
It might also be related to user permissions (maybe these shells are
opened under some special user, that does not have read or exec perms to
the file) - try running /usr/bin/id ... oops - this would probably not
be available too - so try locating this shell by carefully examining the
output of ps -ef from another terminal - note the user id. One more
general diagnosis tool - if you do locate the shell's process from
another terminal, you can use 'strace -p process number', then go back
to the bad term and type /bin/ls -ld /bin/ls to see the syscalls bash
does when looking for ls.
Yet another possibility, is that for some reason the shell or the
terminal is run chroot(8)'ed to some other place - I guess this one is
too far fetched for now

was from ctrl alt F2

but the same thing on term windows

I us konsole if it matters

  

This would have helped to further diagnose had you given a different
answer to my other question (the exact error message). As it stands it
probably does not matter.

It happens randomly and often after time when I open a new term.
Aaron
  

after time - does that mean that it works ok for a while, then the
same shell stops recognizing commands? Or do you simply mean that you
open a new shell after some time, and the *new* shell is the one that
does not work? Or - is it that they both stop working, but this does not
happen unless you open a new terminal.

One more useful technique you can try, especially if you suspect PATH is
being corruped, is adding debug printings in initialization scripts -
e.g. /etc/profile /etc/bash.bashrc,  ~/.bash_profile and ~/.bashrc
(sometimes it's the initializations scripts that fail, corrupting your
PATH on the way). But do make sure you remember to remove them once
your'e done experimenting...


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Re: help my bash is gone

[Aaron]

On Tue, 2005-11-01 at 03:13 +0200, Amit Aronovitch wrote:
 The problem with this issue, is that there is a wide range of possible
 causes to this problem, spanning a large 'diagnosis tree'. This makes it
 hard to diagnose by iterative mail questions.
 I'll try to ask enough questions to cover the more reasonable? causes.
 
 Aaron wrote:
 
 cd command not found?? cd is an internal shell command (doesn't make
 sense to run it in a separate process). Are you sure that's what happened?
  
 
   
 
 seperate process?
   
 
 I think what Amos means is that for cd it's a different matter than e.g.
 for ls.
 When you type ls, bash searches for the command on your path, and if
 found runs it in a subprocess. If your path, or the disk containing the
 executable (normally /bin/ls) is broken, you get the message you got below.
   However since cd is an internal command, bash should run it directly
 (there is no 'cd' executable, it's the bash executable that does the
 job), so we'd be very surprised if you see similiar message for the 'cd'
 command too. Were you just giving an example or did you actually see a
 '-bash: cd: command not found'? I can hardly imagine how this could
 happen - unless the bash executable itself is broken.
 
 What's the exact error message? It should be something like
 -bash: exact commandname: command not found
 
 
 
 -bash: ls:command not found
 
   
 
 OK, so we know it's bash, and we know it knows you typed ls (unless
 there are some mysterious unprintables hidden over there), rules out a
 few exotic possibilities.
 What about if you try explicit path: /bin/ls ? Can you access /bin at
 all? I would have said try ls'ing it, but since you don't have ls...
 what happens if you type /bitab? does it complete? if yes, try another
 tab to see what's there...
 
 If there is a working /bin/ls, then it's your PATH. Were the echo
 $PATH results you mentioned before done from a working terminal? If
 yes, try from a non-working one (echo, like cd, is an internal command -
 if it does not work, either you have a bad alias or your bash executable
 is bad).
 
 If you see no /bin or no /bin/ls, indeed the most probable cause would
 be a bad disk/ bad file-system. When this happens, try switching to
 another (working) shell, and see if you can access /bin/ls from there.
 If you can run /bin/df, try /bin/df / and /bin/df /bin.
 It might also be related to user permissions (maybe these shells are
 opened under some special user, that does not have read or exec perms to
 the file) - try running /usr/bin/id ... oops - this would probably not
 be available too - so try locating this shell by carefully examining the
 output of ps -ef from another terminal - note the user id. One more
 general diagnosis tool - if you do locate the shell's process from
 another terminal, you can use 'strace -p process number', then go back
 to the bad term and type /bin/ls -ld /bin/ls to see the syscalls bash
 does when looking for ls.
 Yet another possibility, is that for some reason the shell or the
 terminal is run chroot(8)'ed to some other place - I guess this one is
 too far fetched for now
 
 was from ctrl alt F2
 
 but the same thing on term windows
 
 I us konsole if it matters
 
   
 
 This would have helped to further diagnose had you given a different
 answer to my other question (the exact error message). As it stands it
 probably does not matter.
 
 It happens randomly and often after time when I open a new term.
 Aaron
   
 
 after time - does that mean that it works ok for a while, then the
 same shell stops recognizing commands? 

yes it means it was working and pitom all of a sudden it stopped.
 Or do you simply mean that you
 open a new shell after some time, and the *new* shell is the one that
 does not work? Or - is it that they both stop working, but this does not
 happen unless you open a new terminal.
 
 One more useful technique you can try, especially if you suspect PATH is
 being corruped, is adding debug printings in initialization scripts -
 e.g. /etc/profile /etc/bash.bashrc,  ~/.bash_profile and ~/.bashrc
 (sometimes it's the initializations scripts that fail, corrupting your
 PATH on the way). But do make sure you remember to remove them once
 your'e done experimenting...

Thanks for the suggestions I will use all the above the next time it
happens
Aaron
 
 
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Re: help my bash is gone

[Amos Shapira]

On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 I have this strange behaviour that when I open a new term session or
 even in an existing term sesstion I will execute a common command such
 as ls or cd and the shell returns command not found. usually I can close

cd command not found?? cd is an internal shell command (doesn't make
sense to run it in a separate process). Are you sure that's what happened?

What's your PATH (echo $PATH)?

 that session and open another and things work again, sometimes I must
 log out and back in  and sometimes (rarely ) that doesn't help.


 I am using demudi which is debian and this once happened while I was
 having other problems and I was forced to reinstall since I couldn't use
 the command line

I'd reckon it's a favourite passtime for real linux users to try to get out of
any broken situation without having to (in degrading order of preferences)
kill-program/exit-shell/logout/kill-xserver (ctrl-backspace)/reboot/reinstall.
I think it's a very instructive experience to try to achieve these
goals (what is
a learned for fun one day can come up as a real session-saver on another,
/usr/bin/reset might turn out to be more useful than you would
normally expect :).


 Any thoughts on what might be causing this very strange behaviour would
 be most appreciated.

Messed up environment (variables), trojans, bad disk blocks, broken packages
installed come up to my mind right now.

Try looking in dmesg(8) and /var/log/messages* for odd kernel messages.

Is this a private personal computer or some public/lab/family box used
by others?

--Amos

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Re: help my bash is gone

[Aaron]

On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 11:56 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote:
 On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I have this strange behaviour that when I open a new term session or
  even in an existing term sesstion I will execute a common command such
  as ls or cd and the shell returns command not found. usually I can close
 
 cd command not found?? cd is an internal shell command (doesn't make
 sense to run it in a separate process). Are you sure that's what happened?
 
 What's your PATH (echo $PATH)?
demudi  linux $ echo $PATH
/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games
demudi  linux $  
 

 I'd reckon it's a favourite passtime for real linux users to try to get out 
 of
 any broken situation without having to (in degrading order of preferences)
 kill-program/exit-shell/logout/kill-xserver (ctrl-backspace)/reboot/reinstall.
 I think it's a very instructive experience to try to achieve these
 goals (what is
 a learned for fun one day can come up as a real session-saver on another,
 /usr/bin/reset might turn out to be more useful than you would
 normally expect :).
not sure I get your point, I do know that expeinced users don't do what
I do, but search for the cause of the problem and a solution. I usually
panic and try the above options...
 
 
  Any thoughts on what might be causing this very strange behaviour would
  be most appreciated.
 
 Messed up environment (variables), trojans, bad disk blocks, broken packages
 installed come up to my mind right now.
 
 Try looking in dmesg(8) and /var/log/messages* for odd kernel messages.
 
from dmesg:
clip--
sda: assuming drive cache: write through
usb 1-1.2: USB disconnect, address 15
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
sda : READ CAPACITY failed.
sda : status=0, message=00, host=1, driver=04 
sda : sense not available. 
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
sda: Write Protect is off
sda: Mode Sense: 00 00 00 00
sda: assuming drive cache: write through
 /dev/scsi/host7/bus0/target0/lun0:3scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead
device
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 0
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 0
 unable to read partition table
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 0
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 1
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 2
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 3
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 4
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 5
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 6
Buffer I/O error on device sda, logical block 7
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
scsi7 

Re: help my bash is gone

[Amos Shapira]

On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 11:56 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote:
  What's your PATH (echo $PATH)?
 demudi  linux $ echo $PATH
 /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games
 demudi  linux $

And you get command not found when doing ls with this path?
Is ls aliased to something?

  I'd reckon it's a favourite passtime for real linux users to try to get 
  out of
  any broken situation without having to (in degrading order of preferences)
  kill-program/exit-shell/logout/kill-xserver 
  (ctrl-backspace)/reboot/reinstall.
  I think it's a very instructive experience to try to achieve these
  goals (what is
  a learned for fun one day can come up as a real session-saver on another,
  /usr/bin/reset might turn out to be more useful than you would
  normally expect :).
 not sure I get your point, I do know that expeinced users don't do what
 I do, but search for the cause of the problem and a solution. I usually
 panic and try the above options...

My point is that if you get to it - it's worth trying to dig and find answers
to these problems so next time they come around you are ready to smuck
them in the face once and for all, otherwise you'll never become an
experienced linux user (or you might become experienced linux installer :).

 scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
  my cdr started doing this after ram upgrade

Looks like some device-sensing daemon probing the cd for a media,
not too worrying (and you could have clipped the identical lines in the
message).

 ---clip---
 Attached scsi removable disk sda at scsi9, channel 0, id 0, lun 0
 Attached scsi generic sg0 at scsi9, channel 0, id 0, lun 0,  type 0
 usb-storage: device scan complete
 EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended
 EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended

Have you crashed your system lately?
Have you executed fsck afterward?
Try taking the system down to single-user mode (remember - try to avoid
a full reboot) unmount and fsck all filesystems except for the root filesystem.
Actually - if you are not sure (are you?) then reboot and check whether there
are such warnings about your root filesystem too.
Consider moving to ext3 (no need to reformat the filesystem, I've never
done this myself but I read it's just a matter of running tune2fs -j
device file
and updating the filesystem type in /etc/fstab)

 printk: 77 messages suppressed.
 UDP: short packet: From 213.97.234.10:39074 35764/43 to
 192.117.110.160:356

Have you setup a firewall on your computer? Have you taken down all
unnecessary services (this is apparently unrelated to your problem but still)?

Cheers,

--Amos

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Re: help my bash is gone

[Aaron]

On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 13:58 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote:
 On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 11:56 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote:
   What's your PATH (echo $PATH)?
  demudi  linux $ echo $PATH
  /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games
  demudi  linux $
 
 And you get command not found when doing ls with this path?
 Is ls aliased to something?
 
   I'd reckon it's a favourite passtime for real linux users to try to get 
   out of
   any broken situation without having to (in degrading order of 
   preferences)
   kill-program/exit-shell/logout/kill-xserver 
   (ctrl-backspace)/reboot/reinstall.
   I think it's a very instructive experience to try to achieve these
   goals (what is
   a learned for fun one day can come up as a real session-saver on 
   another,
   /usr/bin/reset might turn out to be more useful than you would
   normally expect :).
I didn't catch this the first time, but did a man reset and now I see
what you mean :)
thanks
aaron
  not sure I get your point, I do know that expeinced users don't do what
  I do, but search for the cause of the problem and a solution. I usually
  panic and try the above options...
 
 My point is that if you get to it - it's worth trying to dig and find answers
 to these problems so next time they come around you are ready to smuck
 them in the face once and for all, otherwise you'll never become an
 experienced linux user (or you might become experienced linux installer 
 :).
the latter is still more the case although less and less.
 
  scsi7 (0:0): rejecting I/O to dead device
   my cdr started doing this after ram upgrade
 
 Looks like some device-sensing daemon probing the cd for a media,
 not too worrying (and you could have clipped the identical lines in the
 message).
 
  ---clip---
  Attached scsi removable disk sda at scsi9, channel 0, id 0, lun 0
  Attached scsi generic sg0 at scsi9, channel 0, id 0, lun 0,  type 0
  usb-storage: device scan complete
  EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended
  EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended
 
 Have you crashed your system lately?

it happens on occasion ie my ups broke and computers at home.
 Have you executed fsck afterward? 

no I use ext3 file system and thought the journalling was enough (truth
to tell I couldn't figure out how to run it under ext3)

 Try taking the system down to single-user mode 

on redhat this was a simple matter I also keep forgetting how to go to
single-user mode on debian.

 (remember - try to avoid
 a full reboot) unmount and fsck all filesystems except for the root 
 filesystem.
 Actually - if you are not sure (are you?) then reboot and check whether there
 are such warnings about your root filesystem too.
 Consider moving to ext3 (no need to reformat the filesystem, I've never
 done this myself but I read it's just a matter of running tune2fs -j
 device file
 and updating the filesystem type in /etc/fstab)
 
  printk: 77 messages suppressed.
  UDP: short packet: From 213.97.234.10:39074 35764/43 to
  192.117.110.160:356
 
 Have you setup a firewall on your computer? Have you taken down all
 unnecessary services (this is apparently unrelated to your problem but still)?
 
no I haven't set up a firewall and I have unnecessary services
embarrassed sigh
I will remove the extra junk and setup a firewall
toda
Aaron
 Cheers,
 
 --Amos
 
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Re: help my bash is gone

[Amos Shapira]

On 10/31/05, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 13:58 +1100, Amos Shapira wrote:
  And you get command not found when doing ls with this path?
  Is ls aliased to something?

You haven't answered this question.

 I didn't catch this the first time, but did a man reset and now I see
 what you mean :)

I might have bungled again in the way I phrased this - reset was just
an small example of something that many people just close a shell
where running the right command could let them keep it.

  experienced linux user (or you might become experienced linux installer 
  :).
 the latter is still more the case although less and less.

Good on you.

   EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended
   EXT2-fs warning: mounting unchecked fs, running e2fsck is recommended
 
  Have you crashed your system lately?

 it happens on occasion ie my ups broke and computers at home.

You have a UPS? Have you though of connecting its signal to your
computer so the system can shut down cleanly before the UPS runs
out of juice?

  Have you executed fsck afterward?

 no I use ext3 file system and thought the journalling was enough (truth
 to tell I couldn't figure out how to run it under ext3)

e2fsck - from the manual: e2fsck - check a Linux ext2/ext3 file system.

The kernel message clearly recommands running fsck.


  Try taking the system down to single-user mode

 on redhat this was a simple matter I also keep forgetting how to go to
 single-user mode on debian.

man init will teach you (and between you and me - it's init s).

  Have you setup a firewall on your computer? Have you taken down all
  unnecessary services (this is apparently unrelated to your problem but 
  still)?
 
 no I haven't set up a firewall and I have unnecessary services
 embarrassed sigh
 I will remove the extra junk and setup a firewall

Remember - you can install the most secure-*able* system in the world
but if you don't configure it properly it's still not secure.

--Amos

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Re: Help needed for the KODIX project

[Robert Wallner]

On 10/6/05, Yedidyah Bar-David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But are you sure the right thing is to dump Debian (or gentoo, for thatmatter) and start from scratch? Debian isn't just dpkg and apt. In fact,
We cannot accept any non-free software in our repository. Not even
links to non-free software. So that's enough of a reason to dump any
project that doesn't respect user freedoms.
Of course, if you consider the entire Debian archive and infrastructureto be full of legacy (which it probably is), etc., then you have no
option. But my own experience says that real life isn't _that_ simple,and if you manage to get enough users and momentum, you'll turn up toalso have legacy cruft etc. You'll probably also find out that you do
not agree with all of the decisions of your volunteers, and either letyour archive loose quality (by your definitions) or spend a lot of timefixing their work.

Yep, we also have legacy stuff, but compared to other projects, we are
much more younger, so it's easier to get rid of it, and much easier to
do good planing not to get to that point.
 packages, while we name them after the sources. Just some examples, we have
 gcc and gcc-lib instead of gcc and libstdc++, mysql and mysql-lib instead ofWhile it makes some sense, why do you think it's important?
Big projects have the tendency to forget where they came from. Not to
begin a flame war, but we are a GNU distribution, not a Linux
distribution. So, linux is just a package, the same for kfreebsd. Also,
the majority of users don't know where the software they are using came
from. When you see gcc-lib you know it's part of gcc. When you see
libstdc++.. you get my point.
That's admirable, but do you really think one person can manage keepingup with updates of 2000 packages? You already say it's too hard.

I update the packages I need for my work. Others update packages that
they need for theirs. It's hard to manage updating non-critical
packages, so that's why we have only half working gnome and xfce, no
openoffice yet, etc... But the stuff we work with it's good and stable
enough (for us) to be used in production environments.

Suppose I want to help Free Software. Given my set of abilities andinterests, and the limited time I want to devote, what is the best way?.
For me personally, it wasn't helping some specific distribution, butmainly participating in this mailing list and a few small projects. Butas I said, if I decided I want to help a specific distro, I would choose
one of the big ones.--DidiAs
long as you help GNU or other free software projects that we use, you
are indirectly helping us, and we appreciate that. If you want to help
us directly we'll appreciate it even more. But I can't convince people
that we are better than other projects. We are not (yet). But you'll
never know if you won't try it :)-- Robert Wallner

Re: Help needed for the KODIX project

[Nadav Har'El]

On Thu, Oct 06, 2005, Robert Wallner wrote about Re: Help needed for the KODIX 
project:
 Big projects have the tendency to forget where they came from. Not to begin
 a flame war, but we are a GNU distribution, not a Linux distribution. So,
 linux is just a package, the same for kfreebsd. Also, the majority of users

I'm not trying to continue a flame war, but rather trying to understand this
statement. How can the type of kernel (rather than, say, the version of a
specific kernel) be a package, with Linux and freebsd being alternative
packages?

The reason I ask this, is because executables normally assume a lot of
knowledge on the host systems, gathered during compilation from include
files and libraries. Some of the latter problem (e.g., of system calls) can
be solved by enforcing the use of shared libraries (and forbidding statically
linked binaries), but I am guessing that many packages will not survive
being taken as binaries when compiled for Linux and moved to FreeBSD without
being modified.

Are you trying to improve upstream packages to rely less on compile-time
information, and more on run-time information? E.g., to determine on runtime
whether certain system calls, certain signal numbers, and so on, are
available, rather than using a configure script? If so, this sounds
an interesting idea.

Also, many many packages on a typical Linux distribution are strictly
Linux specific: consider programs like ps (which works with the /proc
filesystem specific to the Linux kernel), mk2efs, reboot, and probably
dozens of others. Do all of these have Linux and BSD kernel variants, or
do you produce versions that work (as binaries) on both kernels?


 I update the packages I need for my work. Others update packages that they
 need for theirs. It's hard to manage updating non-critical packages, so
 that's why we have only half working gnome and xfce, no openoffice yet,
 etc... But the stuff we work with it's good and stable enough (for us) to be
 used in production environments.

A decade ago, I was using what you might call a GNU/SunOS operating system:
I kept the SunOS kernel, but mostly everything else was either GNU or other
free software (X11 from MIT, etc.), that I downloaded and compiled myself.
But keeping up with all the packages I needed was a chore. Not once did I
need to perform compilations that took hours to complete (X11 and gcc were
the worst), or move sources on tape because my Internet connection limitations
(X11 was about 60 MB, an unbelivable whopper at that time).

But today, I don't need to do that any more, because my Linux distribution
(which is Fedora, but that is incidental) has almost every package that I ever
needed, ready, and constantly updated and upgraded. This is the primary
reason I use a Linux distribution, and not some sort of home-brewed Gnu+Linux
combination. It's simply easier this way. So, if your distribution doesn't
have that advantage, and for many of the packages that I use I'd need to
compile them myself, well, I guess your distribution is not for me.


-- 
Nadav Har'El|  Thursday, Oct 6 2005, 4 Tishri 5766
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |The message above is just this
http://nadav.harel.org.il   |signature's way of propagating itself.

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Re: Help needed for the KODIX project

[Robert Wallner]

On 10/6/05, Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not trying to continue a flame war, but rather trying to understand thisstatement. How can the type of kernel (rather than, say, the version of aspecific kernel) be a package, with Linux and freebsd being alternative
packages?
I didn't say they were alternative as in 'interchangeable' packages.
They are 2 different architectures. The idea is to keep the kernel
dependent code to a minimum, so packages are build from the same source
for both kernels with minimum of changes.
Also, many many packages on a typical Linux distribution are strictly
Linux specific: consider programs like ps (which works with the /procfilesystem specific to the Linux kernel), mk2efs, reboot, and probablydozens of others. Do all of these have Linux and BSD kernel variants, or
do you produce versions that work (as binaries) on both kernels?
We are still very far from binary compatibility for both architectures,
but yes, the ultimate goal would be a single architecture with
interchangeable kernels. The middle-upper layer of applications doesn't
need to care which kernel it runs on, as long as it uses a common
interface. FreeBSD has it's Linux binary emulation and there is
linprocfs.
A decade ago, I was using what you might call a GNU/SunOS operating system:I kept the SunOS kernel, but mostly everything else was either GNU or other
free software (X11 from MIT, etc.), that I downloaded and compiled myself.But keeping up with all the packages I needed was a chore. Not once did Ineed to perform compilations that took hours to complete (X11 and gcc were
the worst), or move sources on tape because my Internet connection limitations(X11 was about 60 MB, an unbelivable whopper at that time).
Nowadays we don't have those problems. We have 2 dual 3.2G Xeon servers
hosted at Internet Zahav and Bezeq, so the compilation time and
download times aren't an issue anymore :)
But today, I don't need to do that any more, because my Linux distribution(which is Fedora, but that is incidental) has almost every package that I ever
needed, ready, and constantly updated and upgraded. This is the primaryreason I use a Linux distribution, and not some sort of home-brewed Gnu+Linuxcombination. It's simply easier this way. So, if your distribution doesn't
have that advantage, and for many of the packages that I use I'd need tocompile them myself, well, I guess your distribution is not for me.It
depends what you do with the system. As I said before, all the packages
I need for my work are constantly updated (many times even before the
upstream announcements). The rest of them is more problematic, and
there we have problems. Just for the kicks, can you name some of the
software packages you are using ?-- Robert Wallner