RE: [WSG] Site Check - amplify.com.au
I like it, I don't like the plus minus concept on the navigation though, it implies you can close/open multiple navigation options at once (like any of those tree lists can) which is not needed in a navigation. Instead of the plus minus I'd use a concept of bullet point and highlighted bullet point. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Swabey Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 9:33 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Site Check - amplify.com.au Hi all We have just completed a redesign/redevelopment of the www.amplify.com.au website, and would appreciate any feedback, especially from Mac users. Many thanks -- Scott Swabey www.lafinboy.com www.thought-after.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
As I explained, CSS layouts do not render in Gmail/Hotmail etc. I've tried your HTML below, it just gives me a fill in that table. You can see the HTML here: http://tui/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ The yellow section partway down the page is what I'm trying to fix, if you view it in both Firefox and IE you'll see the difference between them and what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks, Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Svip Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 9:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Drop the border colour, and give the table a background and turn up your cellspacing and set border to 0. table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=2 border=0 background=#cc However, I would strongly suggest CSS for this job. Regards, Svip On 1/30/07, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
FW: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Sorry, that address should be: http://duvel.intrepidtravel.com/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ -Original Message- From: Samuel Richardson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 10:11 AM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables As I explained, CSS layouts do not render in Gmail/Hotmail etc. I've tried your HTML below, it just gives me a fill in that table. You can see the HTML here: http://tui/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ The yellow section partway down the page is what I'm trying to fix, if you view it in both Firefox and IE you'll see the difference between them and what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks, Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Svip Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 9:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Drop the border colour, and give the table a background and turn up your cellspacing and set border to 0. table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=2 border=0 background=#cc However, I would strongly suggest CSS for this job. Regards, Svip On 1/30/07, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
I did follow a random article that I found with a Google search that gave a list of which styles worked and which didn't, I assumed that the didn't list would not work inline either which may not be the case after reading a few posts on the list. If anyone can dig up a best methods article for producing HTML emails then that would be fantastic. S -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel May Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 11:31 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Hi Samuel, Can't you still use inline styles for the border and gmail will render it correctly? I know gmail is a pain with css, but have you tested inline css for this border problem? Cheers, Rachel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 12:12 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: FW: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Sorry, that address should be: http://duvel.intrepidtravel.com/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ -Original Message- From: Samuel Richardson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 10:11 AM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables As I explained, CSS layouts do not render in Gmail/Hotmail etc. I've tried your HTML below, it just gives me a fill in that table. You can see the HTML here: http://tui/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ The yellow section partway down the page is what I'm trying to fix, if you view it in both Firefox and IE you'll see the difference between them and what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks, Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Svip Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 9:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Drop the border colour, and give the table a background and turn up your cellspacing and set border to 0. table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=2 border=0 background=#cc However, I would strongly suggest CSS for this job. Regards, Svip On 1/30/07, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] AIMIA finalists
It's interesting that under the Childrens section, Click Suite has picked up awards for both Moa and Survivor. Both produced by Click Suite (an NZ agency) and Te Papa (the New Zealand museum) This is for the Australian Interactive Media Awards! Is this another case of Australia trying to steal New Zealands best? samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Katrina Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2007 1:53 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] AIMIA finalists Gday, So is anybody on this list one of the finalists? http://www.aimia.com.au/i-cms?page=2649 I notice a very interesting phenomenon: CSS is widely used, but validation is not considered important, for either CSS or HTML, and I don't think accessibility has been given a high priority either amongst these pages. Does anyone know why? Why have many of them made similar choices? Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Making sliding door tab navigation fit 100%
Can you point us towards an example page anywhere? -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Skip Evans Sent: Thursday, 11 January 2007 4:38 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Making sliding door tab navigation fit 100% Hey all, I'm new to the list, and am a PHP/MySQL programmer by trade, but recently finished reading Andy Budd's CSS Mastery, as I have been familiar with CSS for quite some time, but am now making a real effort to use CSS properly. I have implemented Budd's Sliding Door tabbed style navigation, and it works fine, but I need it to fill 100% of a table's TD cell, so it goes all the way across on all browsers without going into a double layer type look. I know I may not have explained that well, but I hope you get the idea. On some browsers the tabs are too wide to fit on a single line, and wrap so that they occupy two lines. In other words, on my Linux/Firefox browser it fills out nicely with the settings in the style sheet I copied from the book, but on the client's browser the tabs wrap around to the next line. How can I set them so they fill 100% across the table's TD cell, regardless of browser width, etc? Thanks much! -- Skip Evans Big Sky Penguin, LLC 61 W Broadway Butte, Montana 59701 406-782-2240 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Check out PHPenguin, a lightweight and versatile PHP/MySQL development framework. http://phpenguin.bigskypenguin.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Installing IE7 seems to enable cleartype, or at least something similar to it when viewing pages. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Felix Miata Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2006 5:15 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? On 2006/11/14 17:26 (GMT) Barney Carroll apparently typed: Do most people have ClearType turned off, though? The answer to this is the same as that about how many people change their default font size and/or family from the installation default. Those that know nothing about the capability certainly don't have it enabled, since off is inexplicably the new system installation default. -- Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven. Matthew 5:12 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Just makes sure they understand that - The page could be infinitely long (so they dont box a set amount of text in using a framework around it, common mistake of print designers) - That they cant overlap images all over the place and stagger content, it has to align. If they follow those two rules then its very rare they will design something that cant be built. If they do then its your job as the web developer / coder / cut up artist to take it back to them and explain why, then they wont do it again. If something is going to be quite hard to build, or have to be built in a stupid way then mention it to them as well and explain why it is not a good idea to do it that way. After a bit of backwards and forwards theyll soon figure out how to produce great designs. If theyre coming from a print background then the hardest thing for them to understand will be the infinite page length (and possibly width, they may design something that relies on the browser being a certain width, so a bit of education might be needed in that department as well) Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kay Smoljak Sent: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 4:02 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? Hi Susie, On 11/14/06, Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past (in table-based layout days), the graphic designer on the team would either provide me with a Photoshop layout file that I would cut up, or would sometimes cut it up themselves. I would then build the site using tables, to make it look exactly like the Photoshop layout file. I know exactly where you're coming from - I also have worked a lot with comp-only web designers. However, I tend to take a different approach. To me, the designer shouldn't be thinking about what can be done in terms of code etc at all - they should look at a computer screen and imagine the possibilities. As coders, it's our job to turn their picture into reality. When we were doing table layouts last century, there were often things that I used to tell the designers not to do - things that were difficult or just plain not possible. But with CSS layouts and good standards-compliant browsers (don't scoff, even IE6 is far easier to deal with than Netscape 4 ever was) I've never come across something a designer has suggested that couldn't be done - just look at the Zen Garden. These days I tell them to just go for it (I also like a challenge). However, giving designers a better understanding of screen-design issues - colour and contrast, size, dimensions and readability, flexible widths, accessibility etc - is of course a great idea. For that I would encourage them to visit the CSS Zen Garden and some of the CSS gallery/awards sites and get ideas of what works and what doesn't from what other people are doing. Sometimes one tiny idea from a way-out designed for designers blog layout can add a touch of class to a business site. Good luck with it! K. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
If you look at the Zen garden from a complete design point of view, without any background in coding HTML or CSS, then it will just look like anything is possible on the web. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds Sent: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 4:32 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? For that I would encourage them to visit the CSS Zen Garden I'd be wary of recommending the Zen Garden for the fact that a lot of the designs don't represent best practice CSS coding. Yes they're great examples of how you can break boundaries, but you'll also find examples where a lot of the mark-up has simply been set to display: none in favour of a huge graphic that contains all the text. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] IE6 - IE7
The first security exploit has already come out for IE7. It would be a wise idea to hold off for a few weeks at least before installing. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Friday, 20 October 2006 8:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 - IE7 On 10/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rahul Gonsalves wrote: I will not be allowing IE7 to be installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-). You are doing this even though IE 7 is supposed to be much safer than IE 6? I mean, I know it probably won't be more stable, but safe? IE 6? Hmmm? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] set height versus height set to auto
It's not how I would build it, but..
Lose the width : auto;'s, width is already auto so you don't need to define
it again.
The height styles everywhere are indicative or trying to compensate from
something going wrong in the design, instead of setting a height work our
what's causing the content to be pushed down and fix that instead. (There
are legitimate uses of height, but they're few and far between)
Lastly, why is everything position relative?
It's a hard one to fix, and I think you've approached the cut up in the
wrong way. Work from the inside out, built up the page as a series of
individual elements then bring them all together. I find it's quicker and
you write much better code then by working from the outside in, or starting
at the top of the page and working down.
Thanks,
Samuel
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 18 October 2006 12:12 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] set height versus height set to auto
I'm still plugging along learning but I'm once again
stumped. I've been attempting to take a Photoshop design image that was
sliced and diced and make it into a tableless web page. I'm trying to get
this page to look as close to the original design image (
http://www.designbyatfb.com/temp-images/ut-sample-lrg-2.jpg warning image is
214 kb) as possible. It is not fluid, it is not perfect.
I'm doing this for myself, just using misc. stuff from a acquaintances site.
So this is not an actual commercial site. This is a practice site for my own
sake.
The index page works and acts exactly as I imagined it should in FF and IE.
css is located here:
http://www.designbyatfb.com/temp-images/ut-web/css/main-style.css
index page is located here:
http://www.designbyatfb.com/temp-images/ut-web/index.html
}
#middlecontent{
width:auto;
height:348px;
position:relative
}
#middlelefttext{
position:relative;
float:left;
clear:right;
height:348px;
width:298px;
color:rgb(0,0,0);
font:10pt Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
text-align:right;
padding:0px 5px 0px 5px;
background:rgb(255,255,255)
}
#middlerightimage{
position:relative;
right:0px;
top:0px;
float:right;
clear:right;
height:348px;
width:auto;
background:rgb(255,255,255)
}
However, to further confuse me, this page
http://www.designbyatfb.com/temp-images/ut-web/gucci.html, whose
more-style.css (
http://www.designbyatfb.com/temp-images/ut-web/css/more-style.css ) is an
exact replica of main-style, except I've changed the fixed heights to auto:
This was my attempt to make the page expandable in height for that content
area
}#middlecontent{width:auto;height:auto;position:relative}#middlelefttext{pos
ition:relative;float:left;clear:right;height:auto;width:298px;color:rgb(0,0,
0);font:10pt
Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;text-align:right;padding:0px 5px
0px
5px;background:rgb(255,255,255)}#middlerightimage{position:relative;right:0p
x;top:0px;float:right;clear:right;height:auto;width:auto;background:rgb(255,
255,255)}The
big challenge is the next page, or the Gucci page. This page works great in
IE it adds white space under the purse image, However this page completely
falls apart in FF. I am thinking it is the height in the following portion
of the main-style.css . I've used font sizes in pt, I realize that is not a
very good or accessible practice. I've questions too about link titles, are
they necessary for accessibility? I've not run through any accessibilty
tests so far. Thanks Sharron
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RE: [WSG] IE6 - IE7
I'm using the IE6 standalone with IE7 installed, the only problem is that the standalones don't support cookies and don't support the hack for alpha PNGs (they don't display at all) S -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Wednesday, 18 October 2006 1:19 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 - IE7 On 10/17/06, John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the public release of IE7 nearly on us I'm just wondering whether it's better to download the fix to stop IE7 installing via automatic update and continue to use IE7 as a standalone, or let IE7 replace IE6 and then install a standalone for IE6. What would be the pros and cons of each method? I have a hunch (just a hunch) that the standalone of IE 6 will be more stable than that of IE 7. Don't know if it's true, but if it is, then you would probably be better off having IE 6 as a standalone. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Relative positioning and Netscape 6
On the contrary, it's very useful, and accurate: I used absolutely positioned divs on the www.intrepidtravel.com to add the rounded corners, logo and trip search box you see on every page. This has worked on every browser that I've tested, even down to IE5.5 -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds Sent: Monday, 16 October 2006 11:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Relative positioning and Netscape 6 Relative positioning is not a very reliable cross browser method for getting elements where you want them. You're better off using an element's margins for most positioning and in some cases floats (e.g. float: left/right). On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:35:58 +1000, Andrew Ivin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find out what Netscape 6's capabilities are as far as relative positioning goes. I have a page where I have a parent div, absolutly positioned, with two relatively positioned child block level elemnets; one positioned to the top left, the other top right. The top right absolutely positioned element is ignoring the relative container in NS 6, and is positioning relative to the viewport - top right of browser window. Could this be NS 6's lack of support of positioning? -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Yahoo Javascript Library - Word of Warning
Sorry for the slightly off topic post but I know a couple of people from the yahoo library read this mailing list and it is tangentially related to web standards as it brings up scary dialog boxes to the user. Weve been using the yahoo libraries throughout our website but noticed that when theyre used on a particular secure (https) page of the website we were getting a page warning (do you want to load non secure elements on this page). A bit of packet sniffing later it turns out that through out the yahoo libraries they are making calls to images hosted externally. It seems the libraries are trying to detect https connections but in this case are failing, causing the warning. They could be doing this to cache images between sites using the YUI libraries, however if youre the paranoid type then they could be using it to track usage / visitors to your site. Either way its quite interesting and if you are trying to track down the elusive secure and non-secure warning message then this could be it. -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] The usability of a frame-style layout
Well if your concern is always having the menu on the screen for the user to find then just use JavaScript to position it according to the view-port. If the user has JavaScript turned off then it will always appear at the top and not move. The user has a number of ways of navigating back to the top of the screen to use the navigation, scroll wheel, scroll bar, back to top links and the home button all achieve that. Wrapping the entire content area in an overflow div is not going to achieve a good result, you have to set a width and height on it and the scrollbar on the right-hand side is going to be slightly offset from its normal position. In all honestly, if it was going to improve usability of the website then we'd see quite a few more websites employing it. S -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] Sent: Wednesday, 27 September 2006 10:02 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] The usability of a frame-style layout -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Wednesday, 27 September 2006 9:40 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] The usability of a frame-style layout There is nothing to stop you from fixing the navigation to the same place in your page design. I don't really work on a site like this per se. I guess I am just looking for an answer if the technology of the Internet shouldn't be used in a different way than what we do at the moment. We currently design websites in a very inconvenient way which forces users to always scroll back to the top of the page before they can continue to a different page. Personally I feel our minds are still stuck with designing for print and we haven't quite understood yet how to design big amounts of information for the Internet. That only leaves the other area of the page which is contained in an overflow, there's not much point in this either as it's only going to serve to annoy your visitors as they're scrolling a view port inside the browser rather then the browser window itself. Interesting point. In a way I see what you mean: users are accustomed to having their scrollbar at a certain position of their screen. The question is: would users be willing to accept scrollbars of different sizes and positions in exchange for a menu that is available at all times? Perhaps we would need a standard to ensure that the scrollbar of the content area is always on the right hand side of the browser window...? I suppose it does stop the navigation from scrolling off the screen but if that's really a concern then you're either not designing your page properly or trying to force the user to do something you shouldn't Don't quite agree with you here. The way we design pages at the moment you cannot prevent the menu to scroll off the screen. And there's no real way for users to continue browsing other than getting back up to the menu. Of course we can always put a text navigation at the bottom of the page, but there are two problems with that: 1. Who says the user is at the very bottom of the page? There might be that much information on the page that the user can't see the top or the bottom. 2. The text navigation at the bottom looks completely different to the menu button at the top which the user clicked on in first place. This means the user's mind has to switch between two different menus - that's not really intuitive. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] Sent: Wednesday, 27 September 2006 9:16 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] The usability of a frame-style layout There was a time when lots of websites utilised frames, to provide the advantage of a static menu that is always available on the screen, no matter what area of the page the user looks at. I am sure we covered the topic enough to agree that frames are not the way to go, as they carry accessibility issues with them and can cause problems for search engines. So we all moved away from frames and are now accustomed to a page layout that contains the menu somewhere at the top (or top left). However, with css we now have the ability to imitate frames in an accessible and search-engine friendly way for browsers that support it. So the question comes back to usability (and maybe aesthetics): wouldn't it be more user-friendly to always make the primary navigation available to users, no matter what part of the page they are looking at? Let's not worry about the problem of aesthetics right now, but imagine a site that uses css to create this frame-design: our menu sits on the left hand side, our content on the right hand side. We have got a scroll bar that only moves the content areas (achieved through
[WSG] Content Jumps onClick in Firefox
An interesting bug this one, open up: http://www.intrepidtravel.com/ In Firefox. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on one of the country links, you'll notice that just after the click the content of that area jumps down. I thought it might have been something to do with line-heights set on the links active state but the link clicked can cause an entirely different line in the same area to jump down. Plus I haven't explicitly set any styles on active links anywhere in the CSS. Any ideas? I've just noticed this happening on a few other pages in different areas and I suspect it's a fundamental flaw somewhere in my CSS. Thanks, Samuel www.intrepidtravel.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Content Jumps onClick in Firefox
Spot on, that's worked a treat. My understanding of the outline rule was
that it would place an outline around an element without affecting the box
model (as opposed to a border which will contribute to the width the
element).
Interesting none the less, thanks for that.
Samuel
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rahul Gonsalves
Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006 12:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Content Jumps onClick in Firefox
Samuel Richardson wrote:
An interesting bug this one, open up:
http://www.intrepidtravel.com/
In Firefox. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on one of the
country
links, you'll notice that just after the click the content of that area
jumps down. I thought it might have been something to do with
line-heights
set on the links active state but the link clicked can cause an entirely
different line in the same area to jump down. Plus I haven't explicitly
set
any styles on active links anywhere in the CSS.
Hi, Samuel,
Beginner here trying to troubleshoot quite an advanced (and very nice)
website.
Try adding:
a { outline: none;}
This disables the outline box surrounding links, that appears in
Firefox, which is very useful, accessibility wise. Remove at your own
risk. You can duplicate this by using the keyboard to navigate through
the links - the box essentially shows up on :focus.
I hope this helps,
Regards,
- Rahul.
--
Rahul Gonsalves (Personal)
w: www.rahulgonsalves.com
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
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[WSG] Site Review
Well after a long six months (and almost 20 hours at work since I started yesterday morning) weve finally relaunched our website, would be much appreciated if youll could cast your eye over it and tell me what you think: http://www.intrepidtravel.com/ Have tried to adhere to standards wherever possible but some of the data weve got does not comply with UTF-8 and we have to write in some encodings. -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] Site Review
Thanks for all the great feedback. The footer links are to allow better access to our country homepages, both to search engines and to visitors. Otherwise the only way to access a country homepage is to visit a trip that belongs in it then to click on the breadcrumb link. Ive tried to use legends wherever possible on forms, in most cases Ive got them but Im sure there are a few Ive missed. The sites text resizing is not fantastic when you take it to extremes but increasing the font size up by about 20% will still not break the templates. I considered it a best of both worlds as fixed, centred width templates dont generally allow for extreme text resizing. I used alpha channel PNGs (with the IE6 hack) in a few choice locations through the site, the logo (as it sits on multiple backgrounds), the rounding corner images in both the banner and the end of the site level tabs. Roll on IE7 is all I can say, alpha PNGs are going to make a world of difference to web design and theyre just around the corner. The template called for a number of rounded corners and 456 Berea St (http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200505/transparent_custom_corners_and_borders/) rounded corners _javascript_ was incredibly useful, basically by using a certain class name on your page it will add rounded corners to it by wrapping it in additional divs, however these nested divs do not show up in your regular source code and visitors without _javascript_ enabled (mobile phones for instance) will not render them. AJAX has also been used fairly substantially throughout the booking process of the site, as our forms are quite long results are saved automatically as you move from field to field, preserving your session if anything happens to it. Thanks, Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mathew Patterson Sent: Friday, 15 September 2006 11:56 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review Search engine optimisation taken to extremes, I think. Mathew Patterson http://designersinhouse.com On 15/09/2006, at 11:24 AM, Germ wrote: hey This may seem picky but is the whole list of countries listed at the bottom really that nessacary??? On 9/15/06, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well after a long six months (and almost 20 hours at work since I started yesterday morning) we've finally relaunched our website, would be much appreciated if you'll could cast your eye over it and tell me what you think: http://www.intrepidtravel.com/ ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] Site Review
Thanks Rachel, Ive fixed the breadcrumb path and it will go out on our next svn update (along with the fixed title tag on the homepage :D ). Have passed on the compare trips price issue to the programmer. S -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel May Sent: Friday, 15 September 2006 1:41 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Review I love this new site I have been through it and have a list of places I want to go now! Some things Ive noticed: Add to shortlist button Im guessing this is AJAX and it adds it to the left column? Thing is when I was clicking on it I was already below the fold, so I couldnt see that anything had happened, and so initially clicked a few times in case I had missed something. Then I wasnt sure if anything had happened, so I was really acting in faith hoping it was AJAXed so it would be saving my choices (and it was yay!). How about change the button so once you have clicked add to shortlist it becomes on shortlist or something. Also, some of the information integrity is out like some of the trips have no description or say they are $0. I then went to compare trips. None of the price data is being pulled out onto this page and price is one of the major things I want to compare. Also the breadcrumb is wrong, it says I am in desinationsasiaVietnam. One of my short listed trips is in Vietnam, but that breadcrumb doesnt make sense to me on that page as I also have trips to France, Italy, etc. I *love* the change currency thing! It could be made to look a bit nicer like the rest of the site, but it is an awesome feature! Initially I was a bit confused with the Your Trip tab I thought that this would be the bit where I would browse around and build up my trip choices, and compare the trips. So it took me a bit to get around to browsing the trips and adding them to a shortlist. But now I think Ive done it makes more sense. I love it! Great job!! It is a nice site to look at, and it is very easy to browse around and find interesting information. From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Friday, 15 September 2006 7:02 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Site Review Well after a long six months (and almost 20 hours at work since I started yesterday morning) weve finally relaunched our website, would be much appreciated if youll could cast your eye over it and tell me what you think: http://www.intrepidtravel.com/ Have tried to adhere to standards wherever possible but some of the data weve got does not comply with UTF-8 and we have to write in some encodings. -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] Site content stolen is there anyone to report it to in the USA
You could report it but I doubt anybody would do anything about it unless you pursued it with a lawyer over there, hardly worth it. Just alter the images to be something offensive, that'll make them change it pretty quickly. Otherwise just ring them up and have a chat, if you use Skype then it'll be free calling. S -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2006 11:32 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Site content stolen is there anyone to report it to in the USA Dear Group, Doing a google check with allinurl:hereticpress.com/ I discovered my site was being duplicated on another site http://literature-universe.info/siteinfo.php/www.hereticpress.com/ Dogstar/Novels/NUNC.html I get an access denied error 403 when trying to see my content on their site. The person concerned is listed as: Domain ID:D13331894-LRMS Domain Name:LITERATURE-UNIVERSE.INFO Created On:09-May-2006 18:27:58 UTC Registrant City:Birmingham Registrant State/Province:AL Registrant Postal Code:35243 Registrant Country:US Registrant Phone:+1.2059691222 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX:+1.2059691222 Registrant Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Admin Name:Gregg Ostrick I changed my .htaccess file to give him a graphic saying stolen content from hereticpress.com Is there a law against this in the USA, can I report Gregg Ostrick to any interested authority in the USA? I hope he likes my graphic:-) Tim The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Average Page Sizes
Hello list, What is considered an acceptable total page size for the web these days? Clearly the smaller the better but Ive put together a fairly graphic heavy travel website with a homepage size of about 300k. With GZIP switched on in the server I imagine that this will be reduced fairly substantially (we have some huge stylesheets that will compress well). Thoughts? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] Need Help With Websites
You could send me just the 80's mp3s if you'd like, it's been that kind of Friday.. Seriously though, I don't know what you're trying to achieve? Do you want people to check over your code? If that's the case then upload it somewhere and we can give you some feedback on it. P.S, make sure you include some Depeche Mode on it.. Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of marvin hunkin Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 2:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Need Help With Websites Hi. if any one can help me, could they send their e-mail address. Okay developing a couple of websites, and coding them using html, and a text editor called textpad. Now, my sites have the following features. that they all have frames, one of my pages has got a table, links, with keyboard shortcuts, graphics on each page, and content and navigation links. now, was wondering, any really good web developer gurus, if you could send me your details, as my zip files, are rather large, and will send them via http://www.yousendit.com as also got music files, for my 80s music site. now, was wondering, also is there a legal way for me to put my music up on the web, for people to download, like internet streaming say via shoutcast. now if any one can help, let me know asap. need help with accessability, and any suggestions, if need be, to redesign the sites. let me know asap. cheers Marvin. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] target=_blank
Title: Re: [WSG] target=_blank If people are reasonably proficient with a browser then they can choose if they want your links to open in a new window (shift-click) or a new tab (middle click - Firefox). By including _blank youre forcing people to accept the link opening in a new window. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susie Gardner-Brown Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 9:53 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] target=_blank I dont know why this isnt allowed. There are some situations where you legally should not open a link in the same browser window. I work at a University that uses Blackboard as its LMS. Blackboard utilises frames. If I dont put in target=blank when theres a link to another website, then that website will open up inside the Blackboard frame ... And in general, Id much rather that a link that takes me away from a site opened in a new window. So I understand that its not part of the original site, and can close that window to go back to the original window. And whats wrong with popups? No I guess I shouldnt go there. But there are times when popups are really useful like seeing a bigger version of a thumbnail graphic ... Just my opinion ... :) - susie **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] target=_blank
Big is relative though, Lightbox is around 60 70k of _javascript_ I think. That would be about the size of one of the images it was displaying, and once its loaded its cached. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Germ Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 11:48 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] target=_blank If it takes forever to load then that is what is wrong with it A lot of people still use dail up and I am one of them :( On 8/15/06, Focas, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's wrong with lightbox? http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/ It looks great but it takes for ever to load unless you have broadband because it requires huge .js files. -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] tabs (was target=_blank)
I use a combination of tabs and new browser windows. I find it quite useful to organise say work into one browser, slacking off into another and email monitoring into the last. That way if I'm slacking I can contain it all into one area but still preserve the ability to open new websites as I browse. Tabs do take getting used to but once you've got used to them it's incredibly painful to go back to just opening new windows. Tabs are here to stay and we should cater our sites for people that use them. Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Donna Jones Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 2:04 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] tabs (was target=_blank) but i think almost every tab browser user would use the tabs. Are you guessing or is this what you have observed? When watching other people use computers - which I try to do whenever I get a chance - I have yet to see anyone except for the most web savvy use tabs. And these are people who are using Firefox, and one friend using IE7, every day. I don't suppose I'm typical, but i don't like tabs and don't use them very often. I prefer new browser windows and mainly its because i get around with alt tabbing through my windows. I don't like being married to the mouse and while I've learned one can Ctrl Tab, to go from tabbed page to tabbed page, i still prefer all my windows be open. Part of it is that a bunch of tabs at the top add considrably to the browser chrome, another part is that i'm used to looking in the bar at the bottom (task bar?) - with a bunch of tabs in one browser window, you can't tell what else is there, it just shows the active one. Alt tabbing works great for me and I routinely have 3 browsers open and maybe 15 or so windows and doing it all from the keyboard. cheers Donna No doubt this will change over time, but IMHO I feel it is too early to assume that everyone who can uses tabbed browsing. And I guess there will be some people who will always prefer not to. -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Safari Rendering on Windows
Apple has just released GetWebKit, it allows windows users to see how Safari will render web pages without then need to install OSX. http://www.getwebkit.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Safari Rendering on Windows
It's an install file. Double click it, or check the website for instructions. I've had a bit of a play with it, it seems quite accurate however it is not rendering select boxes for some reason. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Felix Miata Sent: Tuesday, 8 August 2006 2:00 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Safari Rendering on Windows On 06/08/08 11:56 (GMT+1000) Samuel Richardson apparently typed: Apple has just released GetWebKit, it allows windows users to see how Safari will render web pages without then need to install OSX. http://www.getwebkit.org/ Now that we've downloaded it what do we do? What is a .msi file? -- Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Galatians 6:9 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Support for Macs and Firefox (was Support for IE5/Mac?)
New Zealand government websites should have the New Zealand government web standards applied to them, that Te Papa fails miserably :D -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel May Sent: Friday, 4 August 2006 12:28 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Support for Macs and Firefox (was Support for IE5/Mac?) Seeing as we're on a big rant here I might as well add my 2c! Today I went to New Zealand's National Museum website - Te Papa. I searched for the information I was after (about native spiders) and came across the content and then - woah. The layout was all wrong (content was at bottom of the page) and all the content was overlapping so I couldn't even read it. This is a CSS driven site so I emailed them, let them know of the problem, because it shouldn't be too hard to fix. The reply I got said: Unfortunately, the website is not designed to work with Safari, Firefox or Mozilla browser technology. This website is a government site - therefore should be support accessibility and web guidelines - and is our national museum and icon... -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman Sent: Friday, 4 August 2006 1:18 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Support for IE5/Mac? (was Browser stats) SunUp wrote: * refuse to support Macs and refer any compaints to the boss and the IT department. Amen to that. There's no reason to be forced to support hardware it your department won't make allowances for testing on it. If they want you to support it, they need to make that possible. They couldn't care less. I'M the one trying to do The Right Thing and support what I can, but they don't understand and have no desire to understand about browser support. They support IE, that's it, and that's all they care about. That's a head-in-the-sand attitude that is disturbingly widespread. The MS marketing machine has done an astonishingly successful job of convincing a significant proportion of the world that 'This is a PC, this is what it does. Don't think; just use it as it is.' It's understandable to get this attitude from home users who don't know better, but in a business environment it's just plain crazy. It's like opening a retail shop and then barring anyone who chooses to wear red socks from entering. Why would you willingly and knowingly ignore *any* source of potential business? I think it's an important part of our job as designers/developers to educate out clients, bosses, and site visitors about the medium. After all, whether we're freelancers or employees, aren't we hired because we know more about this stuff than the person hiring us? I *always* include, at the preproduction stage of a project, a clear explanation to the client that their site will NOT look the same to all of their visitors, and I show them samples of previous sites to illustrate the kind of (usually minor) variations they might expect - including sparsely or unstyled versions in older browsers. You need to find someone in management who cares enough about their business to allow you to reach the largest number of potential customers possible, and explain carefully and simply that their IE-only approach is hurting their business. If you can't, frankly, you should give careful thought to whether these are people that you want to work with long-term. Easy to say, I know, but you'll discover, eventually, that there's a lot of power in saying no - and you'll certainly sleep better at night. As a freelance, I'm now (thankfully) able to choose who I work with. If they get what I do, fine. If they don't, and they resist my approach as your bosses appear to be doing, I Just Walk Away. Some people just refuse to be educated, even if it's to their detriment. I've had an enormous struggle getting our department permission to use Firefox, and the rest of the staff here (3000-odd people) don't have a choice because the Firefox site is banned. Banned?! What for? What kind of nazis *are* these people? Is this some kind of perceived security issue? And when you say the FF site, do you mean using FF as a browser? I feel badly that I can't do what I know I should be doing. As of today, IE5/Mac users will get no styles at all when they view our site. That's all I can do, and I guess it's better than it being totally broken. It certainly is, but it's not *all* you can do. If you track back through this thread, you'll see that my original suggestion was to serve IE5Mac typographic styles but not layout styles - you can still make a web page that looks a whole lot nicer than a completely unstyled one; you just have to check that your content still works OK when it's delivered in linear fashion. sunny(fed-up-with-it) Don't be; it's a learning experience for you too - embrace it! And as dealing with and educating
RE: [WSG] Default browser stylesheet values
The Yahoo User Interface (Google YUI library) include style sheets for normalising styles over browsers. (So all margins/font sizes etc are consistent) They also offer a wealth of cross-browser JavaScript functions for animation and AJAX calls, well worth checking out. (file size is a bit big though, not much you can do about that though, they pack so much good stuff into them) Samuel www.seasonstravel.com.au | www.geminidevelopment.com.au -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of e-Bility Sandra Vassallo Sent: Tuesday, 1 August 2006 3:45 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Default browser stylesheet values Hi Paul, I usually start with Tantek's 'debug scaffolding' to create a consistent starting point by ruling out the various browser defaults - not sure if this is what you had in mind but I find it a great approach. http://tantek.com/log/2004/09.html#d06t2354 Erik has also written about it in his archives 'Really Undoing html.css' at: http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/15/emreallyem-undoing-htmlcss/ Cheers, Sandra russ - maxdesign wrote: Here is the one recommended by the W3C http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/sample.html One clumsy way I have used in the past to test individual browsers it to put two identical html files beside each other - one without any css and the other with css in the head. Then you can zero all margins, padding size etc for specific elements in this second html file and add your own css to try and match the unstyled version. Not ideal but it works :) Russ Hey all, Just wondering if anyone is aware of any web resources that detail the default style values given to various elements by browsers (specifically IE6)? For example, what are the default IE6 CSS values for body, h1-6, p, etc? I've already tried Googling this myself, but didn't come up with anything. Thanks in advance, Paul Hempsall Web Developer Lake Macquarie City Council Phone: (02) 4921-0713 Fax: (02) 4921-0566 Web: http://www.lakemac.com.au This information is intended for the addressee only. The use, copying or distribution of this message or any information it contains, by anyone other than the addressee is prohibited by the sender. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Council. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Thanks Russ --- Russ Weakley Max Design Phone: (02) 9410 2521 Mobile: 0403 433 980 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/ News: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/feed/ Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russweakley/ Sams Teach Yourself CSS in 10 Minutes: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/book/ --- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Sandra Vassallo e-Bility Inclusive IT Web Accessibility Usability Solutions t: 02 9810 2216 m: 0414 765 881 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Inclusive IT: www.inclusiveit.com.au e-Bility web: www.e-bility.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Opera 9 and standards support
Yes, I had a similar problem last time I tried to install Opera. All my pages were being rendered with some strange script font instead of Arial or Verdana, it was totally unusable. I tried reassigning the fonts through the settings but it made no difference, I couldn't track down any posts online about other people that had the same problem. I'm on Windows XP home version, all service packs installed. I also have the Adobe Font Folio installed, so in excess of 1000 fonts or so. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Buchanan Sent: Tuesday, 27 June 2006 10:54 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Opera 9 and standards support Not related to a site, but to the application itself: admittedly, I have quite a large number of fonts installed on my WinXP box...but for some reason, Opera 9 (and even 8.5) somehow get confused and think Copperplate is actually Verdana, and a rather gothic looking blackletter font is Tahoma. In short, it chooses the completely wrong fonts (both for page display and UI itself). Is this a known issue? Hmm, there was a font selection problem for machines with more than 1024 fonts installed; but that was supposed to have been fixed in the Windows version (see http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/windows/900/ right at the bottom). You could try the 9.01 weekly build and see if that helps - http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/ One note is that if you had a beta installed, I've found it's a good idea to uninstall that beta before installing the final version (as opposed to upgrading over the top). cheers, Ben -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Opera 9 and standards support
Yes, I had a similar problem last time I tried to install Opera. All my pages were being rendered with some strange script font instead of Arial or Verdana, it was totally unusable. I tried reassigning the fonts through the settings but it made no difference, I couldn't track down any posts online about other people that had the same problem. I'm on Windows XP home version, all service packs installed. I also have the Adobe Font Folio installed, so in excess of 1000 fonts or so. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Buchanan Sent: Tuesday, 27 June 2006 10:54 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Opera 9 and standards support Not related to a site, but to the application itself: admittedly, I have quite a large number of fonts installed on my WinXP box...but for some reason, Opera 9 (and even 8.5) somehow get confused and think Copperplate is actually Verdana, and a rather gothic looking blackletter font is Tahoma. In short, it chooses the completely wrong fonts (both for page display and UI itself). Is this a known issue? Hmm, there was a font selection problem for machines with more than 1024 fonts installed; but that was supposed to have been fixed in the Windows version (see http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/windows/900/ right at the bottom). You could try the 9.01 weekly build and see if that helps - http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/ One note is that if you had a beta installed, I've found it's a good idea to uninstall that beta before installing the final version (as opposed to upgrading over the top). cheers, Ben -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Gap at bottom of overflowed div
Ive got a table sitting inside a div with a width and overflow : auto; specified on it. http://www.richardson.co.nz/tmp/overflowgap.png The problem is that its triggering the overflow for both directions, I only want to have it scroll horizontally. Im guessing its putting the vertical scroll in to show the area hidden by the horizontal scroll bar (it appears no matter what the height of the element of inside the scrolling div). This shows up in both Firefox and IE, so its not a browser bug, just a misunderstanding of what Im doing :D Solutions for removing it? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] Gap at bottom of overflowed div
Solved. You have to use a combination of styles, but: overflow : auto; width : 650px; overflow: -moz-scrollbars-horizontal; overflow-x: auto; Works. The overflow : auto; and width sets the default (and shows only the horiz bar in Safari), then setting the Mozilla specific style defaults Mozilla to only show the horizontal, finally the CSS2 rule (which IE obeys and Mozilla doesnt!?) sets only the horizontal scrollbar to appear. S -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2006 10:15 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Gap at bottom of overflowed div Ive got a table sitting inside a div with a width and overflow : auto; specified on it. http://www.richardson.co.nz/tmp/overflowgap.png The problem is that its triggering the overflow for both directions, I only want to have it scroll horizontally. Im guessing its putting the vertical scroll in to show the area hidden by the horizontal scroll bar (it appears no matter what the height of the element of inside the scrolling div). This shows up in both Firefox and IE, so its not a browser bug, just a misunderstanding of what Im doing :D Solutions for removing it? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
In your screen stylesheet you should have:
display: block;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 150%;
bottom: 45px;
position: absolute;
This will align the div to the bottom of the screen (what you originally
had) when viewed on a screen.
In your print stylesheet you should have
display: block;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 150%;
bottom: auto;
position: static;
This will position the div after any content when you print it.
In both cases the footer divs should appear after your content in the HTML.
Also look at changing the fonts from %'s to pt's in the print stylesheet,
this will suit printing better.
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bojana Lalic
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 3:09 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
I do have a print stylesheet and this is what's in it:
.framework_url {
display: block;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 150%;
bottom: auto;
position: static;
}
I've also got another stylesheet which has the following:
.framework_url {
display: none;
}
What's missing?
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:31 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
Like I said in my original email serve those rules below only when you
print
the page, serve your original rules when the page is viewed on the
screen.
Google CSS Media to find out how to serve different CSS files based on
what device is being used to access the page.
S
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bojana Lalic
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 1:29 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
The div is now appearing after the content in HTML and is appearing at
the end of the content on the last page but not appearing at the bottom.
This is the css:
display: block;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 150%;
bottom: auto;
position: static;
How do I force the div to display at the bottom of the page, regardless
of how much content there is on the page?
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 4:20 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
B,
Make sure the div that is appearing at the bottom of the page appears
after
your content in the HTML. Then in a print only style sheet format that
block
to be position : static;
This will cause the footer to be pushed down from the content on the
page
again. IE may still use the bottom CSS rule even though it should (due
to
the position : static;) if this is the cause then add bottom : auto; to
make
it behave.
- Samuel
Read my blog if you're coming to Melbourne :
http://www.seasonstravel.com.au
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bojana Lalic
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 4:33 PM
To: Paul Novitski; wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
Hi all
This is the css I used to display the url at the bottom of the page:
display: block;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 150%;
bottom: 45px;
position: absolute;
However, I've got a slight problem now. When printing out the article
that is three pages long (when printed out) the url appears on the first
page. How do I force it to display only on the last page?
Cheers
Bojana
-Original Message-
From: Paul Novitski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:46 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
At 06:57 PM 4/19/2006, Bojana Lalic wrote:
I am working on a print stylesheet. What I need to do is display a
url at the bottom of the last page.
I understand that this can be done with CSS3 float: bottom; but is
there another way of doing this?
I wonder if you can simply mark up the URL at the bottom of your HTML
page, then suppress it from screen display if desired.
Paul
Global Summit 2006: Technology Connected Futures -- 17-19 October,
Sydney,
Australia.
Visit our website http://www.educationau.edu.au/globalsummit2006 for
further
details.
_
IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private
or
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If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have
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RE: [WSG] CSS navigation pushing contents of next div over in IE6
Read: http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html
-Original
Message-
From:
listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sam Butler
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 4:00 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] CSS navigation
pushing contents of next div over in IE6
Hi All,
I'm trying to implement a CSS/_javascript_
dropdown navigation (as shown at the seminars recently) and all's well in IE7,
firefox and safari, though in IE6 the navigation div pushes the content of the
adjoining div over to the right by a few pixels. I've tried to adjust the
padding, width and margin of all the elements but it's still happening. anyone
got any ideas:
http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/_bib/kaz/about.html
#leftNav {
padding:0;
margin:0;
float:left;
width:150px;
}
#navigation
{
margin: 0;
padding:0;
list-style-type: none;
background-color:transparent;
}
#navigation li {
display: inline;
}
#navigation li a {
display: block;
font-family: Arial Narrow, Arial, Helvetica sans-serif;
color: #404142;
text-decoration: none;
font-weight: bold;
padding: 5px 0 5px 5px;
margin:0;
border-bottom: 1px solid #fff;
}
#navigation ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
list-style-type: none;
}
#navigation.js ul {
display: none;
}
#navigation li.open ul {
display: block;
margin:0;
padding:0;
border-bottom:1px solid #fff;
}
#navigation li#wines ul a {
padding: 3px 0 3px 6px;
margin:0;
color: #404142;
font-family: Helvetica, Arial Narrow, Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 90%;
font-weight: normal;
background-color:#C4C5C6;
border-bottom:1px solid #D1D2D3;
}
#navigation li a:hover {
color: #fff;
background-color:#A2A2A2;
}
#navigation li#wines ul a:hover {
background-color:#f0f0f1;
}
#content {
background-color:#fff;
margin-left:150px;
padding: 5px 5px 5px 10px;
}
thanks for any help...!
sam
**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] CSS navigation pushing contents of next div over in IE6
Also, if you want some great inspiration
for designing a wine website, check out:
http://www.palliser.co.nz/
S
-Original
Message-
From:
listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sam Butler
Sent: Tuesday,
6 June 2006 4:00
PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] CSS navigation
pushing contents of next div over in IE6
Hi All,
I'm trying to implement a
CSS/_javascript_ dropdown navigation (as shown at the seminars recently) and
all's well in IE7, firefox and safari, though in IE6 the navigation div pushes
the content of the adjoining div over to the right by a few pixels. I've tried
to adjust the padding, width and margin of all the elements but it's still
happening. anyone got any ideas:
http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/_bib/kaz/about.html
#leftNav {
padding:0;
margin:0;
float:left;
width:150px;
}
#navigation
{
margin: 0;
padding:0;
list-style-type: none;
background-color:transparent;
}
#navigation li {
display: inline;
}
#navigation li a {
display: block;
font-family: Arial Narrow, Arial, Helvetica sans-serif;
color: #404142;
text-decoration: none;
font-weight: bold;
padding: 5px 0 5px 5px;
margin:0;
border-bottom: 1px solid #fff;
}
#navigation ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
list-style-type: none;
}
#navigation.js ul {
display: none;
}
#navigation li.open ul {
display: block;
margin:0;
padding:0;
border-bottom:1px solid #fff;
}
#navigation li#wines ul a {
padding: 3px 0 3px 6px;
margin:0;
color: #404142;
font-family: Helvetica, Arial Narrow, Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 90%;
font-weight: normal;
background-color:#C4C5C6;
border-bottom:1px solid #D1D2D3;
}
#navigation li a:hover {
color: #fff;
background-color:#A2A2A2;
}
#navigation li#wines ul a:hover {
background-color:#f0f0f1;
}
#content {
background-color:#fff;
margin-left:150px;
padding: 5px 5px 5px 10px;
}
thanks for any help...!
sam
**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page?
B, Make sure the div that is appearing at the bottom of the page appears after your content in the HTML. Then in a print only style sheet format that block to be position : static; This will cause the footer to be pushed down from the content on the page again. IE may still use the bottom CSS rule even though it should (due to the position : static;) if this is the cause then add bottom : auto; to make it behave. - Samuel Read my blog if you're coming to Melbourne : http://www.seasonstravel.com.au -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bojana Lalic Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 4:33 PM To: Paul Novitski; wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page? Hi all This is the css I used to display the url at the bottom of the page: display: block; font-weight: bold; font-size: 150%; bottom: 45px; position: absolute; However, I've got a slight problem now. When printing out the article that is three pages long (when printed out) the url appears on the first page. How do I force it to display only on the last page? Cheers Bojana -Original Message- From: Paul Novitski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:46 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to detect bottom of a page? At 06:57 PM 4/19/2006, Bojana Lalic wrote: I am working on a print stylesheet. What I need to do is display a url at the bottom of the last page. I understand that this can be done with CSS3 float: bottom; but is there another way of doing this? I wonder if you can simply mark up the URL at the bottom of your HTML page, then suppress it from screen display if desired. Paul Global Summit 2006: Technology Connected Futures -- 17-19 October, Sydney, Australia. Visit our website http://www.educationau.edu.au/globalsummit2006 for further details. _ IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS navigation pushing contents of next div over in IE6
It looks like youve got things
backwards on it, your overriding the * html #content hack with the rule
underneath it.
Move the #content up above the * html
hacks so it is directly below the #leftnav rule, that way IE will read the
hacks and overrule the original #content margins etc.
-Original
Message-
From:
listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sam Butler
Sent: Wednesday,
7 June 2006 8:47
AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS navigation
pushing contents of next div over in IE6
hm. OK, so I've given my
content div a margin-left: 160px; (10 more than the width of the leftNav div)
but although it stops the problem it moves that whole div to the right 10px and
obviously that's not what i want. I take it there's something I'm not quite
getting with this, any more nudges in the 'right' direction...?
http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/_bib/kaz/about.html
I was given another 'hack'
(detailed bottom) which worked fine and as you can see only has two extra
attributes.
#leftNav {
float:left;
width:150px;
}
* html #leftNav {
margin-right: 10px;
}
* html #content {
height: 1%;
margin-left: 0;
}
#content {
background-color:#fff;
margin-left: 160px;
padding: 5px 5px 5px 10px;
}
thehack
belowworks..!!
#content {
background-color:#fff;
margin-left: 150px;
padding: 5px 5px 5px 10px;
/margin-left: 0px;
/float: right;
}
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RE: [WSG] Haley White Space Nav
Set the image to display : block; to fix this. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Swabey Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 9:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Haley White Space Nav Ryan Moore wrote Address: http://www.rockitdevelopment.com/haley/ If you notice at the bottom of my mock up banner, helping hand you'll notice a white space that has been added to the bottom of its div. the div is the div id=banner. For future reference, Firefox displays images vertical aligned to the baseline, IE to the bottom. Adding vertical-align: bottom; to your image elements will keep everything looking the same and remove unwanted spaces below images. Regards Scott Swabey Design Development Director - Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com | www.thought-after.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Haley White Space Nav
Also, your company homepage has a doc title of Untitled Document -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Swabey Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 9:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Haley White Space Nav Ryan Moore wrote Address: http://www.rockitdevelopment.com/haley/ If you notice at the bottom of my mock up banner, helping hand you'll notice a white space that has been added to the bottom of its div. the div is the div id=banner. For future reference, Firefox displays images vertical aligned to the baseline, IE to the bottom. Adding vertical-align: bottom; to your image elements will keep everything looking the same and remove unwanted spaces below images. Regards Scott Swabey Design Development Director - Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com | www.thought-after.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Caret problem with HTML/CSS/Javascript menus
URL? I've only seen the select form element showing through dropdowns, and the iframe shim you've described below is the solution for that. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ned Collyer Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Caret problem with HTML/CSS/Javascript menus Prefix: Does anyone have an elegant solution for this input caret problem? I have a basic CSS dropdown menu (nested UL's). Works a treat, I've built a heap of them. However, when I have the menus go over the TOP of an input text field that has focus, the caret displays through the menu. I have tried this with the brothercake UDM4 menu and it has the same problem. I even tried putting a z-index'd iframe over the offending input text field... and the caret STILL shows thru the iframe tho the input itself is obscured. So, what I've currently done is write some javascript that will capture the current focus'd element, blur it when the menu is active, then unblur when the menu is inactive. This works great (and it should after the page of event bubble handling code). The only problem is if the menu is activated while an input has focus that is BELOW the page scroll. Setting focus will scroll the page, which makes the menu hard to use (ie, mouseover/mouseout and it scrolls off the screen). Does anyone have an elegant solution for this input caret problem? Rgds Ned ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS navigation pushing contents of next div over in IE6
Youve got a whole bunch of hacks in
there now, Id say theyre conflicting with each other. Strip it
out and replace with:
#floatbox {
float: left;
width: 150px;
}
#content {
background-color :
#fff;
margin-left :
150px;
padding : 5px 5px 5px
10px;
}
/* Hide from IE5-mac.
Only IE-win sees this. \*/
* html #floatbox {
margin-right:
10px;
}
* html #content {
height: 1%;
margin-left: 0;
}
/* End hide from IE5/mac
*/
-Original
Message-
From:
listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sam Butler
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 10:25
AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] CSS navigation
pushing contents of next div over in IE6
thanks for that. I'm really getting
more confused as I've played around and now although it 'works' it looks
nothing like the 'original' hack. I've had to put a -3px margin to the floated
div to pull the content div back over to the leftNav div, whereas the hack said
to set this to margin-right: 0; . Also what about the two commented lines on
the #content selector, that works no drama but does anyone have any thoughts on
it's origins etc
http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/_bib/kaz/about.html
#leftNav {
float:left;
width:150px;
}
#content {
background-color:#fff;
margin-left:
150px; /*it made no difference setting this attribute to 160px or 150px!
padding: 5px 5px 5px 10px;
/*margin-left: 0px;
/float: right; */
}
/*Hide from IE5-mac. Only IE-win
sees this. \*/
* html #leftNav {
margin-right:-3px;
/*this pulled my content div back over to the 'edge' of the leftNav div
}
* html #content {
height: 1%;
margin-left: 0;
}
/* End hide from IE5/mac */
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/06/2006 9:32 am
It looks
like you've got things backwards on it, your overriding the * html #content
hack with the rule underneath it.
Move the
#content up above the * html hacks so it is directly below the #leftnav rule,
that way IE will read the hacks and overrule the original #content margins etc.
-Original
Message-
From:
listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sam Butler
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 8:47
AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS navigation
pushing contents of next div over in IE6
hm. OK, so I've given my
content div a margin-left: 160px; (10 more than the width of the leftNav div)
but although it stops the problem it moves that whole div to the right 10px and
obviously that's not what i want. I take it there's something I'm not quite
getting with this, any more nudges in the 'right' direction...?
http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/_bib/kaz/about.html
I was given another 'hack'
(detailed bottom) which worked fine and as you can see only has two extra
attributes.
#leftNav {
float:left;
width:150px;
}
* html #leftNav {
margin-right: 10px;
}
* html #content {
height: 1%;
margin-left: 0;
}
#content {
background-color:#fff;
margin-left: 160px;
padding: 5px 5px 5px 10px;
}
thehack
belowworks..!!
#content {
background-color:#fff;
margin-left: 150px;
padding: 5px 5px 5px 10px;
/margin-left: 0px;
/float: right;
}
__
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bySurfControlE-mailFiltersoftware.
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RE: [WSG] Caret problem with HTML/CSS/Javascript menus
Incorrect, you can place an iframe shim behind the popup layer to make it appear over the top the select element. Example here: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/container/panel.html -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Warren Cardinal Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Caret problem with HTML/CSS/_javascript_ menus unfortunately, you wont be able to fix this problem in IE. In IE, select elements are drawn using the native window library widgets and are thus sitting on top of the html page layer. Therefore, no html element can go above these decorations. Take a look at this example that actually hides a dropdown with _javascript_... http://www.mojavelinux.com/cooker/demos/domMenu/example2.html On 6/6/06, Ned Collyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prefix: Does anyone have an elegant solution for this input caret problem? I have a basic CSS dropdown menu (nested UL's).Works a treat, I've built a heap of them. However, when I have the menus go over the TOP of an input text field that has focus, the caret displays through the menu. I have tried this with the brothercake UDM4 menu and it has the same problem. I even tried putting a z-index'd iframe over the offending input text field... and the caret STILL shows thru the iframe tho the input itself is obscured. So, what I've currently done is write some _javascript_ that will capture the current focus'd element, blur it when the menu is active, then unblur when the menu is inactive. This works great (and it should after the page of event bubble handling code). The only problem is if the menu is activated while an input has focus that is BELOW the page scroll.Setting focus will scroll the page, which makes the menu hard to use (ie, mouseover/mouseout and it scrolls off the screen). Does anyone have an elegant solution for this input caret problem? Rgds Ned ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Warren Cardinal lucid crew 512.853.9693 | 901.458.5236 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] AJAX Question
You might have better luck asking on a forum dedicated to _javascript_ or AJAX rather then web standards. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Omen King Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 1:34 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] AJAX Question Well I was hoping if there was some way this was already supported by _javascript_, But if it were to be another client side programming other than _javascript_ than C++. On 6/4/06, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/4/06, Omen King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Evening WSG, I have been exploring AJAX and wondered if I could achieve the same result of retrieving data from XML documents locally from a directory but without the requirment of a HTTP Server to serve up the page. I am intriguied of the idea of developing a web application that could be used locally without the requirement of a HTTP server. Could anyone help me please think of a method to which this is possible? Client side programming? Java or C++? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] Image Verification
I had to install a captcha on my installation of mediawiki due to repeated abuse from bots, they're a necessary evil. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nello Lucchesi Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 2:58 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Image Verification Nice article on this topic in today's Wall Street Journal: - nello May 31, 2006 Codes on Sites 'Captcha' Anger of Web Users By DAVID KESMODEL May 31, 2006; Page B1 Dave Simmer is a computer-savvy graphic designer. Yet when he surfs the Internet, he often gets stumped by the distorted jumbles of letters and numbers that some Web sites ask users to retype to gain access. They keep warping them and making them longer, says the 40-year-old from Cashmere, Wash. The visually impaired have long decried these codes, which protect sites such as Yahoo.com and Ticketmaster.com from computer programs that create scores of email accounts for spammers or buy hundreds of concert tickets for scalpers. Now, the quizzes are irritating a wider array of Web surfers as companies toughen them as part of their arms race with the spam crowd. The codes, called captchas, are also showing up more often amid a boom in new Web services, ranging from blogging tools to social-networking sites. The trickiest ones make you not want to go to those sites anymore, says Scott Reynolds, a 29-year-old software architect in Ocala, Fla., who lambasted the devices on his blog last year. The captchas' flaws are prompting academics, independent computer programmers and some Web companies to craft new variations that they hope will be easier for humans to decipher but harder for computer programs. The World Wide Web Consortium, an international group that encourages improved standards for Web programming, published a paper (1) last November that advocates the creation of alternatives, saying the tests fail to properly recognize users with disabilities as human and are vulnerable to defeat by astute programmers. Internet companies defend their use of the codes, saying they face a difficult balancing act of trying to fend off attackers while providing a good experience for users. We know there's no perfect panacea, but we think this is a great tool to prevent malicious activity, says David Jeske, an engineering director at Google Inc. Google uses captchas for its free email service and its blog-writing service, among others. It is among companies that recently added an audio version, which lets the visually impaired listen to a series of letters or numbers and type them into their computer. Some captchas have been solved with more than 90% accuracy by scientists specializing in computer vision research at the University of California, Berkeley, and elsewhere. Hobbyists also regularly write code to solve captchas on commercial sites with a high degree of accuracy. But several Internet companies say their captchas appeared to be highly effective at thwarting spammers. Researchers are really good, and the attackers really are not, says Mr. Jeske of Google, based in Mountain View, Calif. Having these methods in place we find extremely effective against automated malicious attackers. Ticketmaster, a unit of IAC/Interactive Corp., has altered its captchas over the years in response to automated computer programs, called bots, that have cracked certain codes, says Brian Pike, Ticketmaster's chief technology officer. He says the robust resale market for tickets gives people a high incentive to try to swiftly snare tickets on its site. Spam companies sometimes get around the challenge of captchas by hiring workers to fill out the forms for them instead of relying on bots, according to the World Wide Web Consortium. The group said in its paper last year that it is a logical fallacy...to hail captcha as a spam-busting panacea. Captcha is an acronym for Completely Automated Public Turing Test to Tell Computers and Humans Apart. Computer scientists at Carnegie Mellon University coined the term in 2000 to describe codes they created to help Internet giant Yahoo Inc. thwart a spam problem. Turing refers to Alan Turing, a mathematician famous for his codebreaking work during World War II and, later, as a pioneer in artificial intelligence. In 1950, Turing wrote a paper that proposed a test in which a person in one room would ask questions of both a human and a computer in another to try to determine which of the respondents was human. If the judge couldn't tell which was which, the computer could be said to be able to think. Captchas deployed by commercial Web sites vary widely. For example, Microsoft Corp.'s Hotmail email service requires registrants to read a long series of twisted letters or numbers, obscured by several lines of varying shape. In contrast, eBay Inc.'s PayPal payment service shows simple block-style letters or numbers against a
RE: [WSG] new site critique - extemely
And suffer the full gauntlet of IE6 CSS bugs while youre at it! -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of del usr Sent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 2:18 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] new site critique - extemely use em not px and enjoy the benefits of an elastic site not confined to any specific screen size. Del usr On 5/25/06, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:listdad@webstandardsgroup.org ] On Behalf Of Michael Persson Sent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 8:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] new site critique - extemely Which site are you talking about... the www.grekland.gr or something else I have my purposes to make it this wide because it is targetted to swedish people that, regarding my other websites, giving me a results that 1024 screen has a 70% of the common users.. Losing 30% of your target audience is a lot, I think! I mean, fair enough: 70% will enjoy your site just fine, but almost every third person of your visitors doesn't have 1024x768. I would still make it target 800x600 in that case. ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Printing + IE = WTF?!
You've fixed the width of that middle column. It's too wide for A4. Add a rule called on media=print and set that middle column to an em/% width. Samuel www.seasonstravel.com.au Darren Wood wrote: Hello, I'm having the oddest printing issue with IE. http://www.trustcite.co.nz/static/site-terms-and-conditions.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Max/min width for IE
Yes but he's talking about using a DIV to force open an area of the page. It doesn't matter if you use a div or a table because in both cases you're using an HTML element as presentation (even if you can't see it). Joseph Bernhardt wrote: W3C - Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets ../present/styles.html to control layout rather than tables. Using a table in this case will not present any problems, no. But (correct me if I am wrong), the main purpose of a table was originally designed to display a relationship between multiple sets of data (ie: spreadsheet). A table can, in fact, be used for display purposes when containing relevant data but for the problem at hand I am sticking with my recommendation of a div. Thanks though! Jough Samuel Richardson wrote: Might as well just use a table in that case. Joseph Bernhardt wrote: Eww! Using HTML elements to solve a display issue? I know where you are coming from, I have had 'clients' like this before, too. I have had to use MS CSS expressions to solve the issue of position fixed and found it relatively easy to use, although I would have rather not used it had there been another way. As far as min/max width, have you tried placing a nested div within the area to be min-width'd with padding of the amount to be width'd and contents of a non-breaking space? Sound's like that might work to me, anyone else? Jough Ricci Angela wrote: Hello everybody Following the late discussion about fluid/elastic layouts, I was wondered if somebody out there has some feedback concerning the use of Microsoft's Dynamic properties proprietary solution for fixing the lack of min/max-width support. After some discussion with my client, they impose me the use of a one-cell table to fix this for IE, but I really think it is a pitty to have to do it... And, besides a javascript solution, all I've found out was MS dynamic properties. If somebody already used those, please could you share your experiences ? Thanks a lot Angela ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition List for Products/Items with Image
Absolute positioning should position from the top/left of whatever
absolute element is containing it, usually this is the body.
However, if you specifiy an element as being absolute but don't feed it
a top/left, it will stay positioned wherever it is on the page (but
outside of the content flow)
Daniel Nitsche wrote:
I had a quick go, and this is what I came up with (assuming a 100x100px
image):
dl
dtProduct title/dt
ddProduct description - this can be as long as you like/dd
ddimg src=product-image.jpg alt=product title/dd
/dl
style
dl { position: relative; }
dl dt { margin-left: 110px; font-weight: bold; }
dl dd { margin-left: 110px; }
dl dd img { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100px;
height: 100px; }
/style
As others have said, I like this better than putting the image in the
dt. This works in Firefox (Linux and Windows) and Konqueror, but breaks
in IE 6 (it seems to be ignoring the absolute positioning of the
image). Perhaps someone could expand on this to make it work in IE?
Daniel Nitsche
On 4/4/06, *Thierry Koblentz* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Richard Czeiger wrote:
Hi Thierry,
I guess the tricky bit is what goes in the blahblahblah.
I'd love to be able to get rid of the classname but I think the dt
that holds the image would have to be positioned somehow and I'm
pretty sure you can't work backwards up the cascade (more's the
pity).
No matter what the blahblah is, there is no need for using a class.
td img {} would get to the image as .img {} does.
So what would you suggest?
I'd put the image in the DT and float it (the DT), giving it the
width of
the wider image that could be used in there.
Then I'd use auto margin on the image so they would appear centered in
relaltion to each others.
Would that work for you?
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com http://www.TJKDesign.com
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