Re: Teaching Java and Perl
* Jon Galliers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > I've been reading this discussion with interest[1], as we are in just that > process of deciding how best to develop 'web solutions' fast enough for > clients, bless their sweet hearts, and whether Java or Perl is the best > 'tool' for the job. the real answer to this, and i'd welcome tony's opinion here, is to hire fewer people > > However, does this mean that Perl has to become a 'commercial' application > to compete? When you consider the spread and use of Perl has without formal > commercial support I don't think so. > i think it needs a bit of commercial support or at least its application for some problem area's including the web need a bit of standardisation for instance with the Rope concept, at least people would not feel they were learning n different technologies (Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, tanagram, TT, etc.) but instead a standard distributed toolkit - Rope > [1]and thinking I should contribute something to this list, even if it is an > incoherent ramble, anything apart from an incoherent ramble would break from the norm > and vowing that I'll make more effort to get to the next > meeting. we'll see you there -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
RE: Teaching Java and Perl
I've been reading this discussion with interest[1], as we are in just that process of deciding how best to develop 'web solutions' fast enough for clients, bless their sweet hearts, and whether Java or Perl is the best 'tool' for the job. My personal feelings echo sentiments expressed earlier in that Perl tends not to be taught, it's learnt by people who need it to provide a solution to a particular solution, whereas Java is formally taught and is then used to provide solutions whether or not it is the right tool or not. I'm still fairly new to Perl, and even newer to Java so I'm probably not the best judge, but you have on one hand a proprietary language intensively promoted by a large IT corporation, and on the other a 'free' language promoted by the people who use it and find it infinitely useful. In this arena Perl is always going to appear a non-commercial, or non-enterprise solution where we have a whole IT infrastructure purchased by middle management who have a sketchy understanding of programming technology and who, on the whole, have been formally taught. However, does this mean that Perl has to become a 'commercial' application to compete? When you consider the spread and use of Perl has without formal commercial support I don't think so. Jon Galliers Design Net [1]and thinking I should contribute something to this list, even if it is an incoherent ramble, and vowing that I'll make more effort to get to the next meeting.
Re: Teaching Java and Perl
It's possibly a blatant over-generalisation, but I get the impression that most Java programmers are the people who learn whatever language the marketing people tell them is the latest, coolest langauge, and/or whatever languge they can earn most money contracting in. Unfortunately, that langauge is Java on both counts. Real hackers tend to evaluate languages on the merits of the language alone. They're more likely to use Perl than Java, or to use a combination of several different language as and when is appropriate. They care more about getting the job done than getting the next job. Just my 2 bits, of course. A -- Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Signature regenerating. Please remain seated. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/
Re: Teaching Java and Perl
On or about Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 09:02:20AM -0500, Mark Rogaski typed: >An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: >: So really it's Pascal all over again - if you only teach them one >: language, it's what they'll always use. If you teach them two, >: they may just possibly see the similarities and start to generalise >: to the class of "programming languages in general"... >So, you learned with Perl, eh? I had the massive advantage of not being _taught_ any language. With the home computers I started on, the language they came with was what you got; later on, I had a choice of languages, but by then I'd already met several varieties of BASIC, BCPL and other things, so the idea of "the language that is best for job A may not be best for job B" had already sunk in. >Programmers, by nature, tend to be able to >learn new languages when necessary. Good ones, yes. I have worked with far too many people who only program in Java because it's the only language they know; and their experience of "learning a language" is being taught it at length, so the idea that they could pick up another one in a few days is deeply scary to them. Roger
Re: Teaching Java and Perl
An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : : So really it's Pascal all over again - if you only teach them one : language, it's what they'll always use. If you teach them two, : they may just possibly see the similarities and start to generalise : to the class of "programming languages in general"... : So, you learned with Perl, eh? Programmers, by nature, tend to be able to learn new languages when necessary. Mark -- Mark Rogaski | "I've said this before but I'll say it again: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Smashing Pumpkins IS REO Speedwagon." http://www.pobox.com/~wendigo | -- Steve Albini __END__ | PGP signature
Re: Teaching Java and Perl
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:10:05PM +, Shevek wrote: >Having taught both, I can say that I would far rather teach undergraduates >Java for many reasons. In fact, they'd probably be better learning >something even more restrictive and more trivial. That doesn't make it >good. So really it's Pascal all over again - if you only teach them one language, it's what they'll always use. If you teach them two, they may just possibly see the similarities and start to generalise to the class of "programming languages in general"... R
