Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] LSC and Dependencies Talk

[PCMan]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:49 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Before I reply to this post:
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11613963&postcount=252
> I thought it's better to start such a discussion over here so that I
> understand better and we make it clear to everyone what is really going on.
>
> As far as I have learned so far and I could be wrong, the Dependencies
> Talk on a Low Resources System where usually Lubuntu is installed, is more
> about Space Issue than Loaded Files on RAM issue.
> I don't have a document or something that confirm that but I do know for
> sure that as long as nothing will be loaded in RAM, the performance won't
> be affected.
>
> I've come across MANY questions from users like: "This app has lots of
> dependencies, can I install it on Lubuntu? will that slow my system down??"
>
> For me, I can easily reply that post saying: "It's more about space issues
> than memory consuming issue + if you want, you can use the terminal for
> Synaptic."
>

This is not necessarily true. Almost always, we add dependencies because
the program needs them at "runtime".
Most of time, these deps, especially the libraries, will be loaded at
runtime as well.
The most important issue is how much RAM is needed by programs constantly
running throughout the whole desktop session.
(web browser, panel, file manager, desktop manager, session manager, other
dbus services...)
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fwd: Derivatives using the LightDM GTK+ greeter

[PCMan]

Actually I have one gtk2 based lightdm greeter which is more themable than
the one provided by lightdm-gtk-greeter. I have an updated version in my
harddisk, but it's not yet fully ported to the latest lightdm APIs. Maybe I
can take some time to finish it.
Anyone interested?

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Chris  wrote:

> This was just in. Might be interesting?
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Micah Gersten 
> Date: Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:19
> Subject: Fwd: Derivatives using the LightDM GTK+ greeter
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion 
>
>
>
>
>  Original Message   Subject: Derivatives using the
> LightDM GTK+ greeter  Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 12:13:06 +0100  From: Robert
> AncellTo: Ubuntu
> Devel list  
>
> Hi all,
>
> I just wanted to clarify some points regarding LightDM and the GTK+
> greeter (lightdm-gtk-greeter package):
> - This greeter was always intended as an example greeter
> - It's being used as the default installed greeter for some derivatives
> - The GTK+ greeter is now an independent project from LightDM
> (http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/lightdm/2011-November/000190.html)
>
> I do not spend much time on this greeter other than confirming it still
> works with newer versions of the daemon, and have no plans to add new
> functionality.  If derivatives want to use this greeter they are welcome
> to, but I suggest they will need to take maintainership of the project.
> Now it is a separate launchpad project
> (https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter) it is easy to give people
> permissions to this project.
>
> Anyone interested?
>
> --Robert
>
>
> --
> xubuntu-devel mailing list
> xubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
>
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] LXDE project structure and organization.

[PCMan]

How about writing some more unit tests? Are you willing to help?
The engineering techniques are useful, but sometimes we just don't have
that bit of time.
For people who are not full time developers, it's hard to apply these
industrial standards sometimes.
Things are not as easy as it looks like. For example, I found it very
difficult to do proper
unit testing for GUI applications which require many user interactions.

If you're willing to help, I'd suggest that you add unit testing to LXDE
projects as you see fit.
You can git clone them and put them somewhere like on github, and add your
test cases.
Later, we can pull your changes from them. This will really help a lot.

About the process you mentitoned:
1. requirement gathering: we always do that.
2. design and modeling: we always do that as well, but it's not documented
and there is no UML stuff.
3. implementation: we of course always to that.
4. test: this is the area that lacks something. We don't have good unit
testings. (pcmanfm/libfm has some primitive unit tests already, but they
are poor)

Software engineering is not a golden rule. It's just a good method derived
from experience of prior successful and failed projects.
Many people already do these things unconsciously everyday, but they don't
know that it's called "software engineering".
Thanks for the suggestions.

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Alexis Lopez Zubieta <
azubi...@estudiantes.uci.cu> wrote:

> Thanks for your advice Tim Bernhard, I know that the real world is quite
> diferent from what the books and the teacher says. But I think that a bit
> of organization could help a lot to the lxde project and to other open
> source projects.
>
> Most of the open source projects are developed by comunities in close
> colaboration and exchange. Becoming this a root factor of the development
> process, projects without organization tend to by slow and hard to
> assimilate. As a newcomer to this world I found hard the task to understand
> and assimilate the existent code. So in my opinion the use of software
> engineering  techniques could help to improve our productivity and the
> quality of the sotfware that is built. The simple aplication of a entire
> software development process (requirements gathering, desing and modeling,
> implementation, test) can improve the resulting software. The right
> application of theese techniques could mean also that we will save time in
> understanding and reusing the software created by others.
>
> So I bring to you (project leaders, developers, the whole comunity) the
> proposal of spend a bit of time in not just commenting more our code but
> also follow theese basic engineering steps to create a better software for
> every body. Specialy I ask to the LXDE comunity to use it in the
> development of the new versions of the lxdepanel, pcmanfm, and other
> applications that will be built now on.
>
> Greetings
> --
> --
> University of Informatic Sciences (UCI) http://www.uci.cu*
> *Nova Light Development Team  http://www.nova.cu
> Alexis López Zubieta   azubi...@estudiantes.uci.cu
>
>
>   
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] About lxpanel2

[PCMan]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Alexis Lopez Zubieta <
azubi...@estudiantes.uci.cu> wrote:

> Thanks for your replies Klaus Knopper and PCMan.
> As I understood you are planing to use an structured approach to create
> lxpanel2 and the rest of the LXDE desktop environment.
> Now I want to expose something. I'm an student of informatics engineering
> in the UCI where I learned to design and create applications with Object
> Oriented techniques. But when I came to the world of LXDE I found that
> there is not an object in the whole code and also I didn't find any design
> or  model of the programs that you build.
> So two questions come to me:
> - Are you designing the aplications before start to write code?
>
Sure, but I did not receive any formal training and taught myself
programming with books, other OSS projects, and, google only.
So the design can be a little bit weird sometimes.
GTK+ itself is designed in a fully OO way and uses a lot of design
patterns, but it's written in C.
However there is no language support for objects in C. We only have struct
+ functions.
A virtual function table in GTK+ world is a C struct which needs to be
filled by hand.
Things does not look like OO initially, but its spirit is OO sometimes.

> - How do you do it? (wich engineering thechniques do you use?)
>
None. I did try and error in the past.
Now I often tried to figure out the design/interfaces/APIs first, and start
implement them later.
For the GUI programs, now I tend to design the GUI first.

Regards
> Alexis.
>
> --
> *From: *"PCMan" 
> *To: *"Klaus Knopper" 
> *Cc: *"Alexis Lopez Zubieta" , "lxde-list" <
> lxde-l...@lists.sourceforge.net>, "lubuntu-desktop" <
> lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 28, 2011 4:58:39 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [Lxde-list] About lxpanel2
>
>
> If your "object oriented" refers to the programming language, I'm using
> Vala now, which is a OO language built on top of GObject/C runtime. The
> language itself is OO. This, however, does not mean that the program
> written in it will be OO.
> I'm not a fan of "making everything an object" approach. No single
> programming style is best for all cases.
> Using too much OO stuff in GObject will create extra overhead as its type
> system is all created at runtime.
> Type-casting and virtual function calls sometimes requires looking up in
> tables. Signal emission in GObject/C
> is also very inefficient, too. So basically, I'd avoid "unnecessary" OO
> whenever possible.
>
> If the term "object oriented" here refers to making everything on the
> desktop an object, that's a totally different thing and is not related to
> language used.
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Klaus Knopper  wrote:
>
>> Hi PCMan,
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 03:21:02PM +0800, PCMan wrote:
>> >On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Alexis Lopez Zubieta
>> ><[1]azubi...@estudiantes.uci.cu> wrote:
>> >
>> >  I have a question about lxpanel2.
>> >  Are you planing to make it using an object oriented approach?
>> >
>> >What do you mean by object oriented approach?
>> >I don't understand what you mean. Any examples?
>>
>> I THINK he means whether or not you will be using an object oriented
>> programming model and programming language (or interpreter on the
>> runtime or macro level), which has certain advantages (everything like
>> programs, icons, files, windows etc. are objects where all the code
>> needed to manage the object is included in the objects class, and not
>> spread across different places in the code), and disadvantages (well,
>> object oriented code tends to get voluminous and slow, maybe even buggy,
>> at least that is the common perception).
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming
>>
>> Gnome and KDE both use object oriented models for their desktops, where
>> KDE also uses an object oriented language, while GNOME works more with
>> procedural languages (C) and its own object management code.
>>
>> Btw, for LXDE, I would, independent of that question, opt for using
>> anything that is stable, small (in the total resources footprint) and
>> fast, even if it means less features. I like C, even that it means you
>> have to be extra careful about memory management and pointer
>> arithmetics.
>>
>> One of the "major features" of LXDE for me was always that it needs less
>> than 5 seconds to start up all necessary components (lxpanel, pc

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] About lxpanel2

[PCMan]

If your "object oriented" refers to the programming language, I'm using
Vala now, which is a OO language built on top of GObject/C runtime. The
language itself is OO. This, however, does not mean that the program
written in it will be OO.
I'm not a fan of "making everything an object" approach. No single
programming style is best for all cases.
Using too much OO stuff in GObject will create extra overhead as its type
system is all created at runtime.
Type-casting and virtual function calls sometimes requires looking up in
tables. Signal emission in GObject/C
is also very inefficient, too. So basically, I'd avoid "unnecessary" OO
whenever possible.

If the term "object oriented" here refers to making everything on the
desktop an object, that's a totally different thing and is not related to
language used.

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Klaus Knopper  wrote:

> Hi PCMan,
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 03:21:02PM +0800, PCMan wrote:
> >On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Alexis Lopez Zubieta
> ><[1]azubi...@estudiantes.uci.cu> wrote:
> >
> >  I have a question about lxpanel2.
> >  Are you planing to make it using an object oriented approach?
> >
> >What do you mean by object oriented approach?
> >I don't understand what you mean. Any examples?
>
> I THINK he means whether or not you will be using an object oriented
> programming model and programming language (or interpreter on the
> runtime or macro level), which has certain advantages (everything like
> programs, icons, files, windows etc. are objects where all the code
> needed to manage the object is included in the objects class, and not
> spread across different places in the code), and disadvantages (well,
> object oriented code tends to get voluminous and slow, maybe even buggy,
> at least that is the common perception).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming
>
> Gnome and KDE both use object oriented models for their desktops, where
> KDE also uses an object oriented language, while GNOME works more with
> procedural languages (C) and its own object management code.
>
> Btw, for LXDE, I would, independent of that question, opt for using
> anything that is stable, small (in the total resources footprint) and
> fast, even if it means less features. I like C, even that it means you
> have to be extra careful about memory management and pointer
> arithmetics.
>
> One of the "major features" of LXDE for me was always that it needs less
> than 5 seconds to start up all necessary components (lxpanel, pcmanfm,
> window manager), instead of initializing a lot of services before you
> can do actual work on the desktop. I hope that the new versions of
> lxpanel and pcmanfm will still be similarly efficient, no matter which
> model or toolkit you will use.
>
> Regards
> -Klaus
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] About lxpanel2

[PCMan]

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Alexis Lopez Zubieta <
azubi...@estudiantes.uci.cu> wrote:

> I have a question about lxpanel2.
> Are you planing to make it using an object oriented approach?
>
What do you mean by object oriented approach?
I don't understand what you mean. Any examples?

>
> University of Informatic Sciences (UCI) http://www.uci.cu
> Nova Light Development Team http://www.nova.cu
> Alexis López Zubieta azubi...@estudiantes.uci.cu
>
>
>
>
> Fin a la injusticia, LIBERTAD AHORA A NUESTROS CINCO COMPATRIOTAS QUE SE
> ENCUENTRAN INJUSTAMENTE EN PRISIONES DE LOS EEUU!
> http://www.antiterroristas.cu
> http://justiciaparaloscinco.wordpress.com
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] LxScreenshot update

[PCMan]

I just created a git repo in lxde project for lxscreenshot.
See
http://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=lxde/lxscreenshot;a=summary

git://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/lxde/lxscreenshot (read-only)
ssh://usern...@lxde.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/lxde/lxscreenshot(read/write)

About how to use the git service provided by sourceforge:
https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Git#CreatingMultipleRepositories

Thank you for the nice applications. Push it to our git repo when you have
time, please.
Cheers!
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[Lubuntu-desktop] About lxpanel2

[PCMan]

Recently there are some discussions about lxpanel on the mailing list,
which is really great.
Hope that we can have a new maintainer for it.

The original lxpanel, however, is bound to gtk2, xlib, and some
linux-specific stuff.
This makes migration to new technology very difficult.
Much has happened in recent years.
1. gtk3 replaces gtk2.
  The management of window geometry and underlying drawing parts have
radical and backward incompatible changes.
  Background image support will be completely broken in gtk3 as many
deprecated APIs are removed from gtk3, especially the pixmap-related ones.
2. HAL is deprecated and now we have udisks/upower (linux-only), and things
never work for other unix variants.
3. logout/shutdown should be done with ConsoleKit now.
4. Xlib is going to be replaced by xcb.
5. Xorg will sooner or later be replaced by Wayland in some distros
6. gio and dbus became widely used nowadays.
7. pulse audio is widely used, and direct ALSA access sometimes causes
problems

Hence, making old code work with new tech might even be more difficult then
a rewrite.
That's why a rewrite/redesign is planned.
A project without many maintainers should not be trapped in the vicious
cycle of fixing the broken compatibilities again and again.
We have only one way out, reusing existing libraries whenever possible and
trying not to touch too low level stuff.

Now I mainly focus on finishing pcmanfm 1.0, but previously I already have
a proof-of-concept prototype for lxpanel2. It's now 40% finished.
Here is the spec of the new lxpanel2.

1. Mainly written in Vala, and use C when absolutely needed to speed up
developement
2. Directly based on gtk3 and does not mess with gtk2. Drawing stuff will
be done completely with cairo.
3. Built with CMake instead of automake (already done)
4. Use standard widgets whenever possible to get proper accessibility
support (important!!)
5. Network monitor part is based on libgtop (90% finished)
Libgtop is a nice lightweight library designed for system monitoring.
It works for major systems, not Linux-only.
Even better, it has no gnome dependency.
6. Pager and task manager part will use libwnck. (80% finished)
With libwnck, we do not touch underlying X11 stuff and can be much more
portable and resistant to future changes of X.
Though it's a gnome lib, it only depends on gtk and has no other gnome
dependencies.
The implementation is quite clean and complete and the APIs are well
documented, making it nice to work with.
7. Battery monitor will use dbus + UPower. (70% finished)
Glib/gio has built-in dbus support now so no additional deps are
needed. Vala even has dbus integration at the language level. Great!
This may be much better than read from /sys as upower devs will handle
future incompatible changes and provide a constant dbus interface.
8. IPC stuff will use dbus instead of XSelection hacks. (dbus is quite
common now and glib has built-in support)
9. The config file might become a single xml file (not sure, still under
evaluation. Ini file based solution is not very handy for tree like data
structure)
10.The UI might be similar than that of the old lxpanel initially, but in
the future we need to be more unique and won't be Windows-like.
11.Volume control should be an additional plugin or systray applet instead
of built into the panel. So we won't depend on ALSA by default.

Instead of reinventing everything in a poor manner, this time I will reuse
existing implementations whenever possible
if they are lightweight enough. This should decrease maintenance load to a
minimum and guarantee tolerance to future changes.
With Vala, coding became much faster than before. To achieve the same
functionality as in C, I felt that only 1/3 of code is needed.
Though the new lxpanel2 will not be available soon, it will be pushed into
repo once I got a first working version.
Of course, this should happen after the file manager 1.0 is done.

Thanks for your patience.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Viewnior?

[PCMan]

Yet another issue is, the underlying lib viewnior use, GtkImageView only
has gtk2 support.
It's a nice little library providing a lightweight and really fast
gtk-based image viewer UI component.
It's a pity that no gtk3 porting was done so far.
Sooner or later we need to migrate to gtk3. If this issue cannot be
resolved at the moment. :-(

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 6:40 AM, Jonathan Marsden wrote:

> On 12/26/2011 12:09 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote:
>
> > Will Viewnior be the default image viewer in 12.04 ? In 11.04 and 11.10
> > it's not in the repos...
>
>
> There are some issues with the modified included graphics library that
> Viewnior uses, and Debian/Ubuntu packaging policy.  Its author does not
> want it included linking to the system version of library...
>
> So what we originally thought was a technical issue (get it packaged and
> into Debian, sync to Ubuntu) has turned into a much more complicated
> packaging/policy/desires-of-authors issue.  I do not know if this will
> all get resolved well in time for 12.04.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Unresolved overheat issue blocks development

[PCMan]

So, does anyone know any distro without this issue?
I'm not able to do development under Ubuntu as the laptop shutdown
unexpectedly while I'm coding.
So sad. :-(

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Andrew Woodhead <
andrew.woodhead...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 21 December 2011 08:47, Andrew Woodhead 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 21 December 2011 04:58, PCMan  wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi list,
>>> I have a long-standing unresolved issue on my Thinkpad R60 laptop.
>>> My Lubuntu gets overheat and performs shutdown automatically frequently.
>>> This happens since ubuntu 10.10 or 10.04 and I never suffered from this
>>> issue.
>>> Recently, the overheat problem became more and more severe and I'm not
>>> able to use Ubuntu sometimes.
>>> Switching to Windows xp and Vista fixed this problem. The temperature
>>> was quite low under Windows.
>>> I did some google search and found that it's a notorious problem of
>>> ubuntu.
>>> Unfortunately, I did not find any good solution to this.
>>> When I compile programs and browse web pages/documentations at the same
>>> time,
>>> the load of my laptop gets high and it becomes overheated easily.
>>> So recently I mainly use Windows xp.
>>> Please help if anyone has the right solution for this.
>>> Otherwise I have difficulty keep using Lubuntu and do programming under
>>> Linux.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>> Do you have the latest BIOS? Are there bugs reported with acpi?
>>
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/213818
>
> Looks like it
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Unresolved overheat issue blocks development

[PCMan]

Hi list,
I have a long-standing unresolved issue on my Thinkpad R60 laptop.
My Lubuntu gets overheat and performs shutdown automatically frequently.
This happens since ubuntu 10.10 or 10.04 and I never suffered from this
issue.
Recently, the overheat problem became more and more severe and I'm not able
to use Ubuntu sometimes.
Switching to Windows xp and Vista fixed this problem. The temperature was
quite low under Windows.
I did some google search and found that it's a notorious problem of ubuntu.
Unfortunately, I did not find any good solution to this.
When I compile programs and browse web pages/documentations at the same
time,
the load of my laptop gets high and it becomes overheated easily.
So recently I mainly use Windows xp.
Please help if anyone has the right solution for this.
Otherwise I have difficulty keep using Lubuntu and do programming under
Linux.

Thanks
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[Lubuntu-desktop] libappmenu interferes with pcmanfm/libfm.

[PCMan]

I'm not sure how it happens. While debugging some weird memory leaks of
libfm, I found that it's caused by ubuntu menu proxy.
Ubuntu app menu stuff injects a module into gtk so every gtk app will loads
it. Then, it tries to export application menus via dbus.
The implementation, however, has some unknown problems causing unnecessary
references of objects inside our programs and this causes unresolved memory
leaks.
Doing export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY="" to turn off ubuntu menu proxy fixes all
the problems.
I'd suggest adding export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY="" in startlubuntu script since
we don't need that and don't want the bugs brought by it.
Further investigation is needed to see why it cause problems, but I don't
have the time to do it.
A test case is the demo program libfm-demo provided by libfm package. When
menu proxy is active, libfm-demo never terminates and hangs on exit.
Please turn menu proxy off for Lubuntu. Thanks.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] LXSession improvements

[PCMan]

For the session manager, I also have some other ideas.
Is it possible for lxsession to expose an interface for client tools to
change environment variables.
For example, clients can ask lxsession to do setenv("http_proxy", ...), so
later newly launched applications will use new proxy settings.
We can also use this to change locale settings on the fly.
Of course, there should be some limitations and some environment variables
should not be changeable.
Is this possible?
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] LXSession improvements

[PCMan]

Looks quite good generally and source code written in vala is much more
readable then GObject/C. :-)
Some comments:

   - initial applications by default stuff:
   gnome classifies applications by stages rather than types.
   some applications should be loadad during initialization stage.
   some are loaded along with the desktop panel, such as some applets
   some are loaded when the panel is loaded and when the desktop icons are
   being loaded
   others are loaded thereafter.
   To ensure applications are loaded at right time, interaction with
   session manager is needed.
   For example, the desktop panel should inform the session manager when
   it's fully loaded.
   Then, the session manager enters next stage and loads applications of
   the next stage.
   Applications which cannot communicate with the session manager cannot
   support this.
   Executing a command earlier doesn't guarantee that it will finish
   loading earlier. This is an issue to solve.
   - Regarding to the implementation, an application class with a data
   member named type is enough IMHO.
   for example:
   public enum AppType {
   WM,
   PANEL,
   DESKTOP
   }
   public class App {
   private AppType type;
   }

   Defining a class registering a new GObject class at runtime and create
   much overhead since C has no object supports. OO is not that cheap with
   GObject though using it is quite easy in Vala. I'd avoid overuse of classes.
   To reduce overhead of GObject, we can use [Compact] attribute when
   defining classes when some features provided by GObject, like signals, is
   not absolutely needed.

   - Use of LibGee
   Most of the time, static arrays or built-in data strucures provided by
   glib itself should be enough. Maybe we don't need LibGee here.

   - Initial options support is good, especially the keyboard and xrandr
   one.

   - Plugin actually is a good idea. I wanted to do that for quite a long
   time, but I don't have the time to do it.

   - For Dbus interface, I'd suggest using the same interface as gnome
   rather than using our own namespace. Most of the gnome applications and in
   the future, gtk3 applications, has built-in supports to interact with gnome
   session manager. If we use different dbus interfaces, than we need to patch
   every applications to add lxsession support, which can be very painful.

   - For lxsession-edit, merging it with lxsession should be good for
   maintainance since it's useless when used along.

   - If you're going to take its maintaince, it's highly appreciated.
   Thanks for the great job!


On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:08 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> I'm working since some times to some improvements to lxsession.
> With my experiments, I ended to rewrite some part in Vala, since C have
> problems with me :)
>
> You can find the result on the options branch of lxsession :
> http://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=lxde/lxsession;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/options
>
> The main new features are :
> * Add initial applications by default support (panel, screensaver ...).
> It's a way to configure applications started by default, rather than just
> adding a line in autostart
>  * Add initial options support (Keymap, XRandr, Keyring). It's the ability
> to add some options add start-up, like a screen resolution (instead of
> using a .desktop file in autostart directory).
> * Add initial Dbus support (draft of org.lxde.SessionManager interface,
> GNOME compat mode)
>
> You can have a look at the new desktop.conf file for the new options
> available :
> http://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=lxde/lxsession;a=blob;f=desktop.conf.example;h=8ae0636a452b6a2e8e8728c039c5d3f0397996c4;hb=refs/heads/options
>
> It should be already usable, the only regression I know is the logout
> function of lxsession-logout which is broken.
>
> I'll appreciate comments on this :) Especialy on the Dbus interface, what
> do you expect from a session manager to be available via Dbus ? Do you
> expect other features from the session manager ?
>
> I would like in the future to take the maintainance of lxsession and try
> to add more improvements, like :
> * Duplicate check, to not autostart an application twice
> * Merge back lxpolkit and lxsession-edit changes in lxsession
> * More application by default, and more automatic / smart detections
> * Finalize the Dbus interface
> * Improve lxsession-edit to configure the new options.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>
> --
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> contains a definitive record of customers, application performance,
> security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this
> data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Killing glade and gconf -- are there general guidelines or a blueprint?

[PCMan]

GtkBuilder should be the replacement for libglade.
Glade 3 can output GtkBuilder format ui files.
However, not all features provided by libglade are supported by GtkBuilder.
In addition, the two formats are not compatible.
Code used to load the ui xml files need to be re-written, too.
Besides, GtkBuilder file requires some special handling of POTFILES.in.
Migrating from glade to gtkbuilder, though possible, is a little bit
painful when there are many glade files.
Here is a guide teaching people how to do the migration.
http://developer.gnome.org/gtk/2.24/gtk-migrating-GtkBuilder.html

There is a script called gtkbuilder-convert, which can convert glade xml
files to gtkbuilder format.
Unfortunately, the ui files it generated cannot be loaded by glade 3
sometimes and you have to maintain the ui xml files by hand.
If you need to write xml ui definition files by hand and cannot use a GUI
designer, it totally defeats the purpose of using ui definition files.
I'd suggest that people who want to help the migration read this guide
first.

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:

>  Le 11/26/2011 10:36 AM, Jonathan Marsden a écrit :
>
> On 11/26/2011 01:07 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote:
>
>
>  No, the priority is the glade migration because only Lubuntu specific
> packages are involved.
>
>  OK, that helps.  Is there documentation out there somewhere about what
> to replace glade with?  Examples, tutorials, whatever?  Is using glade
> 3.10.x (and so GTK3) sufficient?  Or are we really "killing" glade?
>
>  No, just using GtkBuilder instead of glade should be fine :
> http://developer.gnome.org/gtk/2.24/gtk-migrating-GtkBuilder.html
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Roadmap: Bugs to fix before pcmanfm 1.0 release.

[PCMan]

I just took hours and cleaned up the bug tracker of pcmanfm and did some
triage for all of the opened bugs today.
Here are the remaining ones I'm going to fix for 1.0 release.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?limit=100&func=&group_id=156956&atid=801864&assignee=&status=1&category=&artgroup=&keyword=&submitter=&artifact_id=&assignee=&status=1&category=&artgroup=557433&submitter=&keyword=&artifact_id=&submit=Filter&mass_category=&mass_priority=&mass_resolution=&mass_assignee=&mass_artgroup=&mass_status=&mass_cannedresponse=&_visit_cookie=411641f74b63b494a940e7e7b370a98d

The other ones are categorized and labeled with 1.1, 1.5, and 2.0
respectively.
Now it's clear what to do for 1.0 release.
Custom actions support for the popup menus is already finished.
(experimental and not recommended for daily use yet)
Now I'm fixing some bugs found in file operations and tried to make the
file operations less CPU intensive.

I'm not able to give a nice time table or release schedule since I have to
find some spare time for coding.
I, however, have did my best to at least define some clear goals for 1.0
release in this bug list.
There will be no change in strings/translations, or UI.

Thank you all for supporting.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in Precise Pangolin

[PCMan]

Is it possible to keep an unofficial kernel for old abandoned cpus in
lubuntu ppa, if there are people willing to maintain it?

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 1:18 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:

> No, it means that the CPus need to have support for PAE, it's independent
> of the memory.
> Also, the range of hardware affected is not so clear, see the thread on
> ubuntu-devel. I already answered that depending of the list of hardware
> affected, it could be a big support drop for Lubuntu.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:44:20 +
> Michael Rawson  wrote:
>
> > If I understand right, this will only affect those on said machines IF
> they have ~4GB RAM. Which is unlikely, considering they have Pentium IIs.
> >
> > But I agree, we should keep the old kernels for a bit longer. But then
> we throw a dilemma, where we don't get new kernels. Unless you want a
> kernel developer for Lubuntu.
> >
> > On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:39:02 +0100
> > 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna)  wrote:
> >
> > > But there're Lubuntu users on Pentium II and similar machines. In fact
> > > they're happy an OS can handle those "trashy" computers and make them
> > > useable.
> > >
> > > Will this affect those users?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2011/11/18 Julien Lavergne 
> > >
> > > > I forgot to forward this mail from ubuntu-devel, it may have an
> impact on
> > > > Lubuntu since we shared the same kernel.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Julien Lavergne
> > > >
> > > > Begin forwarded message:
> > > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:43:28 -0700
> > > > From: Tim Gardner 
> > > > To: Ubuntu Kernel Team ,
> > > > ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > > Subject: Dropping i386 non-PAE as a supported kernel flavour in
> Precise
> > > > Pangolin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Per discussion at UDS the kernel team is proposing to drop the
> non-PAE
> > > > i386 flavour. The upgrade path for non-PAE users will be the PAE
> kernel.
> > > > Those CPUs that do not have i686 and PAE support will be orphaned. To
> > > > the best of my knowledge, these include Intel CPUs prior to Pentium
> II,
> > > > 400Mhz Pentium M, VIA C3, and Geode LX. As far as I know, there are
> no
> > > > laptop or desktop class CPUs being produced that do not meet these
> > > > minimum requirements.
> > > >
> > > > Before I do something that is difficult to revert, I would like to
> hear
> > > > from the development community why we should continue to maintain a
> > > > kernel flavour that is (in my opinion) getting increasingly low
> > > > utilization. It is my feeling that an extremely high percentage of
> users
> > > > of the non-PAE kernel have a CPU that is PAE capable.
> > > >
> > > > If there is sufficient community demand (and support), I would be
> > > > willing to sponsor the first non-PAE kernel upload to Universe.
> > > >
> > > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/PreciseKernelConfigReview
> > > >
> > > > We'll be conducting a similar survey for powerpc.
> > > >
> > > > rtg
> > > >
> > > > P.S. For those of you that are totally confused by this email, PAE
> > > > (Physical Address Extension) was an addition to 32 bit x86 CPUs that
> > > > allowed them to address more then 4GB physical memory.
> > > >
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension
> > > > --
> > > > Tim Gardner tim.gard...@canonical.com
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ubuntu-devel mailing list
> > > > ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Julien Lavergne 
> > > >
> > > > ___
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> > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Rawson 
> >
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>
> --
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>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lsc Port to Vala

[PCMan]

Great!
I started to use Vala recently and I like it a lot!
Easy to use, and directly compiled to plain C.
Almost as easy to use as python.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Stephen Smally wrote:

>  This message is target for the Lubuntu Software Center Team!
>
> Hi, i have started the port from Python to Vala, the branch is
> lp:~lubuntu-software-center-team/lubuntu-software-center/vala-port, so the
> ppa use the Python version (the package is not broken), there is a README
> inside, let me know if something is not clear.
>
> Stephen Smally
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

[PCMan]

If you can create such a script, it helps a lot in other areas, too.
We can use it to do benchmark for other components of lubuntu as well.


On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:55 AM, Chris  wrote:

> I was suggesting some kind of script, which could write the results in a
> "log" file. That way all the results will be the same on all machines and
> are objective. I will need some help in creating that script probably, but
> I'll be on IRC tomorrow and see what I can get bunged together.
>
> With metta, Chris
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 19:44, Ali Linx  wrote:
>
>> Just a question.
>> Are we going to use some kind of tools/apps to do these tests? or we'll
>> go for the manual approach? I mean just open LXTask and take the figures
>> from there?
>>
>> I'm going to do a fresh install for Lubuntu 11.10, run apt-get update and
>> then apt-get upgrade, install Firefox and make sure both browsers are
>> up-to-date then start some tests.
>> We need to use the same tool/app for that. LXTask, Terminal, etc?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Gabriel Salles 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> *"Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the
>>> test?"*
>>>
>>>
>>> To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot,
>>> open the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of
>>> CPU and RAM the *whole system* are using.
>>> Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox.
>>>
>>> This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the
>>> final version of 11.10.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gabriel Salles
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> *A.J
>> amjjawad*
>> Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega 
>> Thread)
>> My Blog  | My Wiki 
>> Page| My
>> Launchpad  | My Ubuntu Forum 
>> Profile
>>
>> *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by
>> sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It
>> Simple and Short** ~ *
>>
>>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

[PCMan]

Thank you for your test.
I, however, have some doubt about the chromium test.
Since midori, epiphany, and chromium all uses webkit, what makes so many
differences?
The most memory-demanding parts should be webkit and the graphics.
I don't believe that the remaining parts can cause so much impact.
A minimalist webkit browser with few features, midori, uses three times of
memory required by chromium, a complicated and feature-rich webkit browser.
Is that possible? I don't think so, and chromium even loads gtk2 as well.
So the result is really questions. Maybe chromium has some hidden resource
usage not covered by the test?

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset  wrote:

> Just to get an idea, i've installed and run on my new laptop Epiphany
> 3.0.4, Firefox 7.0.1, Chromium 14.0.835, Midori 0.4.0.
> Here's what i get with two facebook tabs + gmail:
>
> Firefox: 268,7MB ram | 0% CPU
> Epiphany: 261,3MB ram | 0-1% CPU
> Midori: 225,6MB ram | 0-2% CPU
> Chromium: 69+19,8+6,1MB ram (94,9) | 0,0,0% CPU
>
> I'm impress with chromium... maybe there's another process i'm missing?
> (i've only looked at the processes called "chromium-browser")
>
> The faster to open is from far Midori (And the one that has less
> dependencies).
>
> I'll try later those four on my Pentium 3 machine...
>
> @ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your "benchmarks"?
> I'm saying it so we can compare our results :)
>
> --
> JpXsat
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Vala and Vapi generation

[PCMan]

Please call Robert Ancell , the author of the great
Lightdm.
He is an expert who develops his programs with vala.
For libraries not using GObject, generating vapi files, as far as I know,
will be more difficult.
It's a great idea. I'd like to start using vala recently.
Developing gtk+ program in plain C is very time-consuming, labor-intensive,
and error-prone.

On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Stefano  wrote:

> Hi, i'm trying to generate some vapi for lxde-specific packages (such as
> menu-cache). is there anybody expert in this? maybe we can push a branch
> with all the lxde bindings for vala.
>
> Regards
>
> Stephen Smally
>
> --
> Stefano 
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] samba support

[PCMan]

No, it's not a bug and smbfs is not needed, either.
GVFS, if properly installed with proper backends, should support smb.
If you can use gvfs-ls or gvfs-* commands to handle smb:// paths, then it's
a bug of pcmanfm.
Otherwise, gvfs or other stuff is not correctly configured under lubuntu.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Phill Whiteside  wrote:

> Hi Julien,
>
> it seems that there is a missing library for samba support, namely smbfs.
> As I'm not sure where you want it reporting, I include the chat.
>
> (00:47:48) wxl: does lubuntu inheriently lack smb support?
> (00:48:11) wxl: oh nevermind figured it out
> (00:48:11) *illusions left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).*
> (00:48:25) wxl: weird i can't use go > network shares but smb://server
> works
> (00:52:26) phillw: samba should be automatic with pcmanfm
> (00:54:02) phillw: network shares is a diffirent app. Please raise a bug
> against it if it is not working. bugs not reported only ever get fixed by
> chance :)
> (00:54:19) wxl: :D
> (00:55:31) phillw: in the past we had pyneighbourhood, but that wouldn't
> "play' either, so pcman added it to pcmanfm to save grief :) (He's a darn
> good guy).
> (00:59:46) wxl: grrr
> (01:00:00) wxl: pcmanfm can find the share but i'm having a hell of a time
> mounting it
> (01:00:42) phillw: wxl: is it password protected?
> (01:00:48) wxl: nope
> (01:01:10) wxl: ntfs share i should say
> (01:01:42) phillw: wxl: I've got to be honest, I'm not familiar. The only
> samba stuff I know of is for windoze.
> (01:02:06) phillw: ntfs = windoze :)
> (01:02:10) wxl: riiight
> (01:02:45) phillw: wxl: been too long since I use windows :) Is it an
> area you would like automounting?
> (01:03:00) wxl: naw
> (01:04:36) KM0201: wxl: should work fine.. i use samba quite a bit (even
> w/o windows machines) cuz its just so easy just open pcman
> smb://192.168.1.xx
> (01:04:46) wxl: KM0201: what about in cli?
> (01:04:51) phillw: pcmanfm 'should' be able to see it. As not too many of
> us have drives that need samba, I'm at a loss as to who to suggest can help.
> I know how to alter the fstab to automount.
> (01:05:01) phillw: thanks KM0201 :)
> (01:05:05) KM0201: um, i've never tried to mount one from cli, but it
> shouldn't be to difficult i dont think
> (01:05:34) phillw: use the same ops as for fstab table?
> (01:05:51) KM0201: so he's trying to automount a samba share?
> (01:06:11) wxl: no automount
> (01:06:13) KM0201: i thought he was just trying to mount it it.
> (01:06:31) wxl: weird
> (01:06:35) wxl: i don't have smbfs
> (01:06:47) KM0201: sudo apt-get install samba
> (01:07:06) KM0201: i dont think samba installs automatically
> (01:07:17) KM0201: did you have an smb.conf?
> (01:07:25) wxl: well i have no problem accessing in pcmanfm
> (01:07:28) phillw: if it is ntfs, you may want the easy version of
> ntfs-config?
> (01:07:32) phillw: http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=96
> (01:08:10) KM0201: ok.. so you have no problem accessing i pcmanfm.. so..
> you want to automount a samba share? (thought you said earlier you didn't
> wanted "no automount".. or am i confused)
> (01:08:58) KM0201: wxl: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/SMB-HOWTO-8.html
> (01:08:59) wxl: nope you're on it KM0201
> (01:09:05) wxl: problem was smbfs was missing
> (01:09:09) KM0201: ok.
> (01:09:12) wxl: now mount -t cifs blah blah all good
> (01:11:38) phillw: wxl: I'm guessing the library eats up RAM... therefore
> not a default. I'll check with the boss.
> (01:12:59) wxl: phillw: i'd be interested to know
> (01:13:09) wxl: i could see the argument made that few use cli and it's
> not necessary
> (01:13:17) wxl: and that the hardcore user will figure it out and install
> what they want
> (01:22:44) phillw: wxl: does network share now work?
> (01:22:56) wxl: no problem phillw
> (01:22:56) *philipballew [~philipbal@ubuntu/member/philipballew] entered
> the room.*
> (01:23:35) phillw: then, for network share to function, it needs smbfs -
> that is a bug :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Phill.
>
> --
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] About future development, the use of dbus and C++

[PCMan]

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Christoph Wickert <
christoph.wick...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Am Dienstag, den 18.10.2011, 13:00 +0800 schrieb PCMan:
> >
> > So actually I'm considering the possibility of using C++ in PCManFM.
> > Implement some new features with C++ will be much easier than doing it
> > with pure C.
> > With C++, the development can be more rapid
>
> Hi,
>
> frankly speaking I think one of the things that LXDE needs most for
> rapid development is consistency. We cannot rewrite everything all time,
> we need to finish and release it at some point. This being said I'd like
> to strongly encourage you to not change anything but finish PCManFM 1.0
> first. It is a great program and deserves a release.
>

When developing smaller applications, the problems of C/GObject is not that
apparent.
However, when the scale of the whole program becomes larger and larger, it
soon becomes very painful for developers to work with.
For long-term development, "more productive development tools"are absolutely
needed.
Doing something in C/GObject may take hours, but it could be finished in
minutes with C++ or others.
C/GObject thing is hard to write, hard to read, hard to maintain, and hard
to debug.
It requires the programmers do the job of C++ compilers manually in C
language.
Developing with it is quite slow, time-consuming, and error-prone. It's just
a pain to work with.
For limited man power, a more productive development tool, if used
correctly, can help a lot.
I'll do some experiment with Vala first since it's totally compatible with
GObject.
If it works well, I'll consider using C++ since it can do things in a real
OO way, and handles very low level things as well.

>
> > and we can utilize many nice existing libs.
> Such as?
>
Boost, google-url, ... and all other C libs are still available as well.
Besides, some code in KDE code base can be used if not bound to Qt.

>
> Regards,
> Christoph
>
>
>
>
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> definitive record of customers, application performance, security
> threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes
> sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense.
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[Lubuntu-desktop] About future development, the use of dbus and C++

[PCMan]

Hi everyone on this list,
I just passed my license exam yesterday. So that means I will have a little
more free time from now on.
I, however, still have an important presentation this week and I have to
prepare for it.
Since next week, I guess I'll have some time for LXDE development.
It's time to fix some old bugs and adopt some patches.

I'm now thinking about future development.
Since dbus support is now part of glib and nowadays dbus is widely adopted,
maybe it's time to replace our own hand-made IPC with dbus and make use of
dbus more in LXDE.
It's possible to use dbus inside menu-cache and in the session manager.
PCManFM might also use it for IPC and to provide some interfaces to other
applications.

The second issue is the use of C++ in LXDE. Currently we mainly use C and in
the future there might be vala.
Doing programming in pure C is quite inefficient and error-prone on memory
management sometimes.
In C++, things can be better encapsulated if it's used carefully.
There also exists some very high quality libraries, such as boost and some
tools provided by google.
Using C++ inside LXDE only introduces one additional runtime lib,
libstdc++6.so.
So actually I'm considering the possibility of using C++ in PCManFM.
Implement some new features with C++ will be much easier than doing it with
pure C.
With C++, the development can be more rapid and we can utilize many nice
existing libs.
Later, I'll try to use C++ inside PCManFM is feasible and will do some
experiments in git branches.
Of course, the program should be kept as fast as old versions and memory
usage cannot significantly increase.
Otherwise, I won't use it.

Cheers!
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Roadmap for Lubuntu 12.04

[PCMan]

That's OK.
PCManFM will support basic file search later and some work has been done
during last GSoC session, but first I have to fix some old bugs. The good
news is, I passed my license examination yesterday. So I can have more free
time now. The bad one is, I have an important presentation this week. So I
may get some time to fix the broken LXDE apps and adopt some patches since
next week.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 5:50 AM, Gabriel Salles wrote:

> I don't know if here is the best place to say this, but once (first of
> september of this year) I send an e-mail to Christian (the creator of Midori
> and Catfish) sending him a translation to Catfish, and he answered me this:
>
> "Hey Gabriel,
>
> I'm sorry to say Catfish is not being actively developed, and until
> somebody volunteers to do that there won't be any translation additions
> either.
>
> ciao,
> Christian"
>
> So maybe is better if we decide to use another "file searcher"
>
> Best regards,
>
> Gabriel Salles
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Extend desktop across dual monitors -- a feature I would like to see in Lubuntu 12.xx

[PCMan]

Multi-monitor support is a long standing issue.
Here I'd like to ask everyone.
How should a muli-monior desktop bahave?
For the desktop panel:
1. one panel per monitor, configured separately
2. one panel exending to the external monitor
3. one panel staying on main monitor, no panel on the external one
4. one panel exending to the external monitor, but have the most
important panel applets on the main monitor, and the rest on the external
monitor
5. Other possibilities...

For the desktop icons manager, options are:
1. icons on main monitor only.
2. some icons on main monitor, others on the external monitors. (Then how to
handle icon rearrangement when the external monitor is disconnected?)
3. others...

For wallpaper:
1. one wallpaper per monitor
2. one wallpaper extending to all monitors
3. others...

Things goes much more complicated since X supports XRandR, Xinerama, other
vendor-specific solutions, X11 Display/Screen stuff. Implementation details
for them are totally different. So how exactly should a desktop behave and
be implemented? What will happen after Wayland is introduced and is widely
accepted?
We had better have a conclusion on the specifications before anything is
going to be implemented. Comments needed. Thanks!
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:42 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:

> Le 10/06/2011 11:18 PM, ohiom...@gmail.com a écrit :
>
> Sounds great.  Will the configuration go back to default when I disconnect
> the extra monitor without rebooting or will I need to reconfigure it?  Can
> you save more than one configuration?
>
> No, it's not dynamic, you have to do it again if you unplug the monitor.
>
> Can this kind of functionality be built into the system at some point?
>
> Yes, it's a goal, but it's still not ready.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Evaluate a new build system, CMake.

[PCMan]

Hi,
Since many people agreed that autotools is aged, horribly slow, complicated,
poorly documented, and hard to use correctly, I'm currently doing some
experiments with CMake, yet another build system.
KDE uses CMake since 4.0 and many other projects are migrating to it.
However, CMake has no built-in support for intltools, which is extensively
used in LXDE for translations.
In additon, few people use it with gtk+ programs written in C.
Fortunately, it's easy to extend CMake so I wrote a module for intltools and
created a simple gtk+ project.
Now it works well. I added a small project in lxde/devtools repo for demo.

http://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=lxde/devtools;a=tree;f=gtk_cmake_test;h=ef2ea280444f8553e8a13b9053d216f8a46beb67;hb=HEAD

To build the demo project.
mkdir build
cd build
cmake ../
make
sudo make install

What we will get if we migrate to CMake:
1. colorful build log with progress display (in percent)
2. very fast!! much faster than autotools
3. clean source tree. No more autogen.sh, configure.ac, Makefile.am, and
many mysterious files.
4. well documented syntax with good readability. No more m4 macros mixed
with shell script.
5. easy to write, maintain, debug, and extend.
6. many user-contributed modules exists on internet
7. out of source build which does not pollute the source tree with generated
files
8. CMake is cross-platform. It can generate makefiles even for Windows.

What we will lose (but these are not hard to solve):
1. some nice tools designed for autotools integration, such as gtk-docize,
intltoolize,  However, writing modules to support them is not difficult.
2. the build process may change a little. there will be no configure &&
make. use cmake ../ && make
3. many Makefile.am and configure.ac need rewrite
4. some feature checking macros provided by autoconf may not be available in
cmake and needs some work.

After playing with CMake for two days, I found it easy to use and extend.
It's a quite handy build system. I can understand why KDE switches to it. It
may be helpful for our project if we can use CMake to replace autotools.
After all, autotools create as many problems  as that is solves. Sometimes
debugging automake stuff takes more time than real coding and this greatly
decrease productivity. So I'd suggest a migration to CMake.

Any comment?
>From package maintainers' perspective, will using CMake make packaging
process more difficult? If the answer is no, I'd suggest a migration and
deprecate autotools.
Thanks.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] remove threads from LSC

[PCMan]

Please keep thread design.
Try to run your application on something like EeePC 701 and you'll know what
I mean.
Later when more features are added, and even when some info is get from
internet, you'll still need threads. Sooner or later, you'll need it.

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 4:49 AM, Stefano  wrote:

> With the new database-based engine the ui charges in few seconds (half
> second on my machine), so we can remove the use of threads and reduce
> memory usage.
> Pro:
>Reduce Memory usage
>No more problems like no error report inside a thread
>
> Contro (how do you say in english? the bad things):
>In Expert mode you have to wait a few seconds to see the ui
>If the use_database option is false the user have to wait a lot of
> seconds.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Stephen Smally
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lsc database

[PCMan]

Isn't /var/cache a better suited place for this kind of thing?
It's a little bit weird to put cache in /usr/share.
Even better if you can separate things for different locales in different
cache files.
This way you may waste some disk spaces and create lots of db files, but the
result will be faster. Not sure if this speed up is visible to user and
worth the work. It's up to you.
Anyways, congratulations for the speed up!

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 2:00 AM, Stefano  wrote:

> the database should be moved to /usr/share/LSC, i will do it immediately.
>
> Please note that to use the database in the step 3 you have to launch
> python with sudo ($ sudo python)
>
> Stephen Smally
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Audio Conf for Lubuntu

[PCMan]

For ALSA, a potential candidate GUI mixer is "gamix".
For PulseAudio, maybe we can use "pama".
Both are written in pure C language IIRC.
Please evaluate them if possible.
They are not the best ones, but at least they will be better then "xterm -e
alsamixer".
Other ones I can find are written in python or some other scripting stuff.

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:

>  Le 08/09/2011 16:49, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset a écrit :
>
> I know we are pass the freeze, but maybe this shortcut could be added to
> preferences menu for 11.10. I think for a lot of people it's useful to
> control the mic and all that stuff in alsamixer. Plus, there's nothing to
> add but this little shortcut :)
> And maybe there's a way to show lxterminal without the menus???
>
>
> I'm not a fan of the solution, because it will add a non translated entry
> in the menu. It's also not really dynamic (doesn't deal with pulseaudio when
> it's running), and alsamixser is not really user-friendly (it's still a
> command line program which emulate a GUI).
>
> I didn't plan to fix this problem with this solution. My idea was to enable
> the "Configure" button when you right click on the volume applet on the
> panel. So, as it seems to be an annoying bug for people, I take some time to
> implement this. You can test the result by adding the ppa :
> ppa:lubuntu-dev/staging . The lxpanel will be available in a few minutes.
>
> This is the behavior :
> - If pulseaudio is detected, it will try to launch the gnome-sound
> preference if it's installed. If not, it will look at pavucontrol.
> - Else, it will try to launch gnome-alsamixer, and if it's not on the
> system, try to launch "xterm -e alsamixer".
>
> It will offer a GUI for sound configuration, with a bit of dynamism, and
> without adding an English entry in the menu.
>
> Please test it (you need to reboot after installing lxpanel) and give us
> feedback about this solution.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Use a database in lsc

[PCMan]

It's a good idea. Please don't use gdbm. It's performance is not good.
For a simple and lightweight hash db, you can consider tdb, which is used by
samba.
If you want more advanced query, then sqlite is the best choice IMO.
A nice idea is using locale specific cache since most parts of of a desktop
entry file are just translations.
In addition, the cache should be system-wide rather than user-specific since
all users share the same repo.
So a hook triggered after installation of app-install package is the best to
regenerate the cache.

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Stefano  wrote:

> i was thinking about the use of a database, re-builded every time the
> cache update or upgrade, this because parse the contents of a
> directory(/usr/share/app-install/desktop) is very slow, so we can build
> the database parsing the directory only the first time, then parse the
> database to get the packages faster. we can also add an option in the
> edit menu, to re-build the database, called "Force packages list
> upgrade" or something similar.
>
> let me know what you think.
>
> Stephen Smally
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] L3afpad 0.8.18.1.1 (GTK Text Editor)

[PCMan]

Why should this be a fork?
Are there any reasons that the gtk+ 3 port cannot go upstream?

2011/9/2 神癒礁湖 

>
>
> Enviado por 神癒礁湖 a través de Google Reader:
>
>
> L3afpad 0.8.18.1.1 (GTK Text 
> Editor)
> vía GTK-Apps.org Content  el 1/09/11
>
> [image: 
> Thumbnail]
> *L3afpad 
> *0.8.18.1.1
> (GTK Text Editor)
> Simple text editor forked from Leafpad, supports GTK+ 3.x
>
> *changelog:*
> * Forked from Leafpad 0.8.18.1.
> * Ported to GTK+ 3.x.
>
> [read more] 
>
> *job recommendations:*
> *Internship Events/Business
> Communication*   intern
> KDE e.V.  Germany, Berlin  more about this 
> offer
> [image: .][more jobs] 
>
>
>
> Cosas que puedes hacer desde aquí:
>
>- Subscribirte a GTK-Apps.org 
> Contentcon
>*Google Reader*
>- Empezar a utilizar Google 
> Readerpara mantenerte al día 
> fácilmente de
>*todos tus sitios favoritos*
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] LSC news

[PCMan]

Parsing the result of this query "
http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=.desktop&submit=Search";
basically give you a list of real applications. However, ubuntu website only
returned the first 100 items found.
What a pity. Otherwise we can have a good, realtime, and realiable source of
this list.
Is it possible to get support from ubuntu people? A list for real
applications sounds reasonable.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Stefano  wrote:

> On 25/08/2011 00:34, Julien Lavergne wrote:
> > Le Wednesday 24 August 2011 à 23:27 +0200, Stefano a écrit :
> >> new branch and new fats-search engine for the Lubuntu Software Center,
> >> of course is still incomplete, hope will be ready for 12.04.
> >> get the branch: bzr branch lp:lubuntu-software-center
> >
> > Thank you for the update. It starts to be interesting and useful :)
> >
> > Just some comments :
> > - software-center is beginning to move to packagekit backend, instead of
> > the aptdaemon one. You should probably have a look at it if you want to
> > to do more complex operations with the package manager. Fortunately, the
> > concepts of aptdaemon and packagekit are the same, it should not block
> > your UI or the way your software-center behave.
> >
> > - 1 feature that IMO a software-center must have, is the ability to show
> > only "real" applications, not the list of all packages. As far as I
> > know, it's not implemented in packagekit yet. 1 solution, is to parse
> > the directory /usr/share/app-install/desktop/, which contain all the
> > applications on Ubuntu repository (each .desktop file represent 1
> > application).
> >
> > Also, you will need at some point a proper build system, translation
> > support etc .. but it can be added later.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Julien Lavergne
> >
>
> yes, i had taked a look to packagekit, i will look again.
> of course we need a way to know if a package is a real application, are
> app-install and app-install-data installed by default on lubuntu?
> alternatively we can use a simple text file containing a list of the
> real-applications-package.
> e.g.
> #apps.list
> firefox
> chromium
> evolution
> thunderbird
> ...
>
> Regards
> Stephen Smally
>
> P.S. new update, indipendent search entry for available and installed
> sections
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] Experiment: Merge LXSession/LXSessionEdit/LXPolkit and make them a single package.

[PCMan]

This piece of code is very simple and easy to debug. I think after some
careful examinations, it can be stable.
If the crash is caused by libpolkit-agent itself, this is not acceptable as
it's a security hole. It should be fixed immediately upstream and this is
not the problem of session manager.
Crashing of policykit should be nearly impossible for a distro. Otherwise,
it will be a security hole. So no matter it's stable or not, upstream
authors will fix it and make it stable enough.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:

> Le Sunday 21 August 2011 à 14:04 +0800, PCMan a écrit :
> > Some may argue that session manager should not be mixed with other
> > stuff. This is true most of the times. However the rationale behind
> > this move is quite simple. These daemons are all essential parts of
> > the DE. They have completely the same lifespan and they should work
> > together. They are all small and simple. So putting them in one single
> > daemon should be better than running many separate daemons in terms of
> > resource usage and efficiency. In addition, it will be easier for
> > upstream developer and packager to maintain.
>
> What about the stability ? Having the 2 running in the same process mean
> that any crash on 1 kill the session, which is quite critical.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne.
>
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Experiment: Merge LXSession/LXSessionEdit/LXPolkit and make them a single package.

[PCMan]

Hi all,
To simpify LXDE, I did some experiment last night.
Since LXSession and LXSession Edit actually are used together, I merged them
and make them the same package.
Though LXSession Edit is originally designed to be desktop independent and
can work under other DEs, I found no real use case of this.
To ease the maintaince, I moved LXSession Edit into LXsession so they will
have concurrent update and there will no longer be any version mismatch
between these two.

For LXPolkit, since udisks and other services requires a proper PolicyKit
agent, a Polkit agent is a must-have for modern desktop environment. The
authentication agent runs on session startup and terminates when the session
terminates. It has the same lifespan as the desktop session. So to avoid
unnecessary daemons, I merged PolicyKit with LXSession. Now the PolicyKit
agent is built-into LXSession and runs in the same process. So no additional
authentication agents, such as policykit-gnome or lxpolkit need to be
installed. This decreased number of daemons and packages.

Some may argue that session manager should not be mixed with other stuff.
This is true most of the times. However the rationale behind this move is
quite simple. These daemons are all essential parts of the DE. They have
completely the same lifespan and they should work together. They are all
small and simple. So putting them in one single daemon should be better than
running many separate daemons in terms of resource usage and efficiency. In
addition, it will be easier for upstream developer and packager to maintain.

To sum up, these three packages became one single LXSession package now and
the policykit agent runs in the process of lxsession rather than as a
separate daemon. For those who still missed policykit-gnome and want to use
it, try lxsession --disable-polkit to disable the built-in policykit agent
and to run your own instead.

It's not the final decision and it's put in a branch called "integration".
git://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/lxde/lxsession
branch "integration"

Please test and give some comments. Thanks.
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[Lubuntu-desktop] New Greeter for LightDM 0.9

[PCMan]

Hi list,
I migrated my old GtkBuilder-based LightDM greeter to LightDM 0.9.x APIs.
Now it works well again with the latest LightDM.
It's still GTK+ 2 based. Migration to gtk3 will begin along with other LXDE
components later.

The source code is here:
git://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/lxde/ldm-gtk-builder-greeter

Main features:
1. Highly themable and much more flexible than the gtk greeter built into
lightdm.
2. Works with gtk2 (so we don't need gtk3 for the login manager)
3. Possible to port old gdm themes to this.

Things don't work:
1. Language selection feature is REMOVED from LightDM, so there is no way to
support this anymore. We're still discuss with upstream authors about this
regression.
2. The themes cannot be edited with Glade when GTK+ 3 is used.

Please take some time to test if the new greeter works for you. Thanks.
I think is a nice alternative to the built-in one provided by LightDM.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] lxshortcut integration in pcmanfm PATCH

[PCMan]

For me, my plan for this part is to make lxshortcut a library, or have this
functionality built into libfm directly.
A library might be more appropriate since this can also be used by
lxsession-edit later.
A separate binary is better when we want to make it an optional component
and handle cases when it's not installed.
Making it a library will let other programs integrate it nicely and easily
since many other desktop components might need this functionality, such as
lxpanel, pcmanfm, and lxsession-edit.
Putting it in libfm has the benefit that we don't have to maintain yet
another library. The cons is other programs requiring this feature will
depend on libfm.
I have not decide how to do this yet, but personally I prefer the library
one. (maybe libdesktop-edit?)

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 1:10 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:

> Le Friday 12 August 2011 à 16:00 +0200, Leszek Lesner a écrit :
> > I created a little patch which creates a new menuitem in the new menu
> called
> > Shortcut.
> > When its called it will execute
> > lxshortcut -i 
> > I originally created this patch for ZevenOS-Neptune and the debian
> version of
> > pcmanfm (which seems to be an older version).
> > I hope this patch works also for the ubuntu package and the newer version
> and
> > is useful until a 'real' integration for desktop creation is done in
> pcmanfm /
> > libfm.
>
> Thanks Leszek for the patch. You should post it to pcmanfm bugtracker so
> upstream can have a look at it :)
>
> I'm not sure the use case you try to cover with this patch. Do you have
> an example ? Also, IMO it should handle the case when lxshortcut is not
> installed (adding a text box asking to install lxshortcut).
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] About GPicView

[PCMan]

Please try Viewnior before making comments. It's better than GPicView in
many ways.
It has all the feature GPicView has and is as fast. It's GTK+ 3 ready, too.
Though I don't like to drop my own program and use others', I see no reason
not to use it because it's indeed superior than mine. Even better, it's
desktop independent.

Please give it a try and give me some feedback.
Developing another one with XFCE devs is not needed. I see no reason to do
so.
Viewnior is good enough for this. If it's not, I'm sure that several patches
will be enough.
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[Lubuntu-desktop] About GPicView

[PCMan]

Hi everyone,
As the original author and prior maintainer of GPicView, I'd like to ask for
some comments from users and other developers. Since I no longer have the
time to maintain GPicView and it still has many problems. I consider
dropping GPicView in LXDE and replace it with a better one.

Viewnior is a lightweight and feature-rich image viewer which I think is
better than gpicview and it also meets the goals of LXDE.
http://xsisqox.github.com/Viewnior/

It has very good balance between resource usage and feature set. Please give
it some tests and gave me some feedback.
I'd suggest replacing GPicView with Viewnior in LXDE. Any objections?
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[Lubuntu-desktop] About GTK2 -> GTK3 Migration, a critical issue

[PCMan]

I'm not sure what Lubuntu devs will do on this issue, but from the LXDE
side, there is no plan for the migration at this moment. For now, migration
to gtk3 brings much more problems and bugs with no visible benefit. XFCE
also keeps using gtk2 in the near future.
The Chromium browser, is going to use gtk2 for quite a long time, too. They
needs to support some older commercial systems on which gtk3 is not
available. For current applications used in LXDE, migration to gtk3 brings
no benefit but the work needs to be done is very huge.

The problems we will have after the migration:
1. PCManFM: desptop icons will be broken and this part needs some sort of
rewrite for gtk3. In addition, some theming stuff uses gtk2 only features.
2. LibFM: this part still uses much GTK2 APIs. Though I already started the
preperation for migration, this won't happen recently. As gtk3 now changed
its user input handling and the change is not backward compatible, I'm not
sure what bugs this will bring.
3. The XSettings daemon inside LXSession doesn't seem to be working for both
gtk2 and gtk3 at the same time.
4. LXAppearance cannot configure gtk2/gtk3 at the same time. Technically
it's not possible to make it work for both of them at the same time.
5. LXPanel is completely broken under gtk3. The work needs to fix the panel
and port it to gtk3 is even more than developing a new panel. Hence, I plan
to develop a new one based on gtk3 from scratch later. I will use libwnck at
that time to avoid some low level X11 hacks. Some new widgets provided in
gtk3 are useful for the new desktop panel. This could decrease much
maintaince load and many unresolved bugs. I'll also do some UI redesign
then. For now, migration to gtk3 for this one is 100% impossible and nobody
is going to do it.
6. Migration of other components are possible, but since the major
components still need more love, spending the time for migration to gtk3 for
the least important components is pointless.
7. GTK+ 2 and gtk+ 3 modules are incompatible. So I'm not sure what will
hapen to IM module (input method) after the migration. We will need two
different IM modules. One for gtk2, and the other one is for gtk 3.
Otherwise we cannot type non-English characters.
8. GTK2 and 3 programs can coexist, but this requires two librraries to be
installed on the disk and loaded at runtime. Having a desktop environment
composed by mixed gtk2/3 programs is a very bad idea since the resource
usage is doubled for no additional benefit. This is not acceptable for LXDE.
As most non-Gnome GTK+ based applications are not yet ported to gtk3, unless
we're going to depend on gnome components, migration to gtk3 now brings
harms only.

To sum up, we're not going to do gtk3 migration in LXDE now. The reasonable
timing for the migration is when XFCE and other non-Gnome programs,
especially Chromium, which has many users, start the migration.

Xubuntu will not use gtk3 this time, and it's really time for Lubuntu and
others to think about the issue.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Cut & Paste Problem

[PCMan]

I just did some attempts to fix this bug. The fix is now available in git.
Please get it heavily tested to make sure things does work and there
are no regression bugs. If no new problem is found, I think it's ok to
make 0.9.9 releases.
As we're more or less in a frozen state, I don't want to make other
changes prior to the release unless absolutely necessary.
Other less critical changes/fixes can be made in 0.9.9.x releases later.
Thanks.

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Phill Whiteside  wrote:
> Hi PCMan,
> There has been a bug
> raised.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/820865 I
> also think that there may be a couple of duplicates in the system. If you
> could allocate it to yourself so it can be tracked. Whilst you get through
> your essential stuff in Real Life, it will suffice to triage the little
> critter until you have time.
> Regards,
> Phill.
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 5:41 AM, PCMan  wrote:
>>
>> Please use the bug tracker for bug report instead of the mailing list.
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=156956&atid=801864
>> I'll take some time to look into this. Thanks.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 8:18 AM,   wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > could anyone read this issue?
>> > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1817738
>> >
>> > Any comment appreciated.
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> >
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>
>
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>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Cut & Paste Problem

[PCMan]

Please use the bug tracker for bug report instead of the mailing list.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=156956&atid=801864
I'll take some time to look into this. Thanks.

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 8:18 AM,   wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> could anyone read this issue?
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1817738
>
> Any comment appreciated.
> Thanks
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] USC

[PCMan]

Please use Glade to edit GtkBuilder. Don't use Gaspacho.
Nobody edits the xml files by hands.
GtkBuilder is the way to go.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 1:59 AM, Stefano  wrote:
> i prefere the code, because the xml files (gtk.builder file) are too
> difficult to edit by hand. anyway can gazpacho work for it?
>
> On 02/08/2011 19:00, Julien Lavergne wrote:
>> Le Tuesday 02 August 2011 à 11:10 +0200, Stefano a écrit :
>>> thank you, will we use gtk.Builder to build the UI or simple-clean
>>> code
>>> (e.g. self.button = gtk.Button("press me!")?
>>
>> It's probably simpler to use gtk.Builder.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Julien Lavergne
>>
>
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] About the recent slowdown of developement

[PCMan]

Some may noted that the development of pcmanfm and other lxde stuff
slowed down significantly recently.
I'm currently preparing for my license examination in order to get my
license for internal medicine specialty.
The examination will be on Sep 24 and on Oct 16. If I can pass the
exam, I'll have more free time later.
In my country, it's a very important advanced license exam for medical
doctors. So I need to disappear for a while.
I'll still take some time to fix the most critical bugs like "failure
to build" or "segmentation fault on startup" when possible.
Other less critical ones will be postponed. Sorry for the inconvinience.

At this moment, I think it's reasonable to have a new 0.9.9 release
for pcmanfm first since much has been fixed so far. If some issues are
found after the release, a 0.9.9.1 should be enough.
Any objection?
If there are no major blockers for a new release, I plan to do a
version bump for soname of libfm and do some final checks before the
release.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Can be lubuntu software center good thing?

[PCMan]

I'd suggest that you do some investigate to see what's the cause of
performance problems of software center first, and to see if avoiding
them is possible. If it's not possible to avoid the performance
problems, then go for a simplified synaptic.
This could save you quite a lot of time for try and error later.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Stefano  wrote:
> yes, this project for me is only for fun.
> my question is: we need a simplex synaptic or a lighter USC?
>
> Stephen Smally
>
> On 28/07/2011 21:28, Julien Lavergne wrote:
>> Le Thursday 28 July 2011 à 17:29 +0200, Stefano a écrit :
>>> i can say that on my 64 bit system lubuntu software center uses 50 MB
>>> RAM less than ubuntu software center (30 mb). the script will be less
>>> weight than 1 MB, it depends only on gtk and apt.
>>> anyway i think that lubuntu software center should be a kind of more
>>> user-friendly synaptic, and not a totally light-rewritten on ubuntu
>>> software center.
>>
>> The initial plan was to rewrite the front-end of Software-center, to
>> make it simpler and lighter than the current one. Rewrite an entire
>> application is IMO too much of work, and you loose all the "invisible"
>> work done by USC.
>>
>> If you want to work on a separate program, why not, but it needs, at
>> least, to be better than Synaptic, and have real advantages vs USC. You
>> need to think about depends, memory usage, but also UI. There is no
>> sense to do a software-center if the UI is worst than Synaptic. Also,
>> package manager need to be very stable and well tested, it's an
>> important piece of the system.
>>
>> Currently, your program is not ready to replace the 2 previous examples.
>> If you want to continue, be aware that it will be more complex than you
>> think to build it from scratch.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Julien Lavergne
>>
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Light-Weight software center

[PCMan]

A key question is, what makes your project lighter than software center?
What's the bottle neck of software center? What makes it so heavy?
Practically what will you do to make yours light?
Usually just rewriting a program with less features won't make it
significantly lighter or faster unless you overcome the problem of the
original software. Otherwise it is not worth the effort and maintaince
cost.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Stephen Smally  wrote:
> Hi everybody, i'mt trying to do a user-friendly and light package
> manager ( a kind of Lubuntu software center) in python (bad?).
> now the code is very poor, i hope you can help me (simply suggesting or
> coding).
> the active branch is lp:~stephen-smally/+junk/lubuntu-software-center
> i'm using apt and aptdaemon, if somebody knows a better way, please tell
> me.
>
> Regards
>
> Stephen Smally
> --
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Time to release pcmanfm 0.9.9?

[PCMan]

Hi list,
I fixed a dnd problem last weekend. So adding bookmarks with dnd
should work now.
The strings are not changed recently and translations are in good status.
I think it's time to have 0.9.9 release.
The remaining and less critical issues can be fixed later before 1.0 release.
If everybody agrees with making a new release, then let's bump version
number and soname and package a new tarball.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Call for review: PCManFM is almost ready for a new release.

[PCMan]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Jonathan Marsden  wrote:
>>> (3) A couple of source files seem to lack a copyright and licence
>>> statement:
>
>>>   src/xml-purge.c: *No copyright* UNKNOWN
>
>>>   autogen.sh: *No copyright* UNKNOWN
>
>
>>> (4) One has a rather different copyright, and a license statement that
>>> needs fixing:
>>>   src/gseal-gtk-compat.h: LGPL (with incorrect FSF address)

Is it possible to make it GPL? I forgot who added this file.

> On 06/23/2011 06:06 AM, Martin Bagge / brother wrote:
>
>> For debian this is RC and will possibly prevent pcmanfm from being
>> included in the stable release.
>
>
> Well, it appears to have been there for a while, both the xml-purge.c
> one and then gseal-gtk-compat.h ones are there in the Debian pcmanfm
> 0.98-1 packages that are in wheezy, and in the 0.97-1 packages that are
> in squeeze, which *is* Debian stable.
>
> If was OK when squeeze was released, why is it RC now?
>
> Anyway: we can fix (4) by editing debian/copyright to state the
> copyright info for that one file.
>
> Adding a copyright to autogen.sh is something PCMan would need to do,
> since he wrote it (I presume).

I forgot who wrote it, but IIRC, Marty Jack did it long time ago.
Later all lxde components use that copy, with some individualized
modifications.

> I do not know how to fix the lack of copyright and licence in
> xml-purge.c, because I have no idea who wrote it.  If PCman did, then he
> can add a licence and copyright notice to it, too.
I did it long time ago.

>>> AUTOMATED PACKAGE BUILDS:
>
>
>>> I have made good progress with this, and expect there will be test
>>> packages automatically showing up in my ppa:jmarsden/lubuntu in a few
>>
>> I have been working on getting better shape of the server that hosts the
>> buildbot. I was thinking about adding a auto export at the end of each
>> successful build. The plan is also to get the code tree updates to
>> trigger builds (I do them by hand at the moment).
>
> Sounds good.  Right now my automated pcmanfm package builds for Ubuntu
> are apparently working OK, see ppa:lubuntu-dev/lubuntu-daily i.e.
> https://code.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/+archive/lubuntu-daily
>
> Jonathan
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] LightDM Vs LXDM

[PCMan]

One question.
Does gnome-keyring works properly under LightDM?
If it works flawlessly, then I think the switch is necessary since
this is an old problem of lxdm without fix.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Chris  wrote:
> Aloha Matthew and the rest,
> I don't run the alpha (or any Lubuntu for that matter) but the switch to
> LightDM is more than showing the user list. At least for Gnome it means
> there won't be a second session running and for us it'll mean we've got
> loads more support for it. That are my 2c at this time of day. And about
> that not seeing it in the list of session; LightDM or LXDM is the session
> chooser.
> with metta,
> Chris Druif
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 16:00, Matthew Young 
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know much about LightDM, but I don't see it in the list of
>> sessions. I have only seen changes in the login screen.
>> Is that all LightDM is?
>> I think it is good that LightDM lists the users, but is that enough to
>> make the switch worth it?
>> Matthew
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 6:07 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
>>>
>>> Le Saturday 18 June 2011 à 19:16 +0100, Yorvyk a écrit :
>>> >
>>> > Having thought about this it is probably best to go with LightDM if
>>> > the rest of Ubuntu is going that way.  There should be plenty of
>>> > support for it and we'll be less isolated.
>>>
>>> I'm still uncertain about this. I still don't want to spend too much
>>> time on maintaining a display manager. Having other people doing the job
>>> is quite confortable :)
>>> The fact that it's working now, doesn't mean it will work in the futur.
>>> The display manager is a complex piece of software, with connexions with
>>> many others parts, which need a lot of testing. Sharing this will be a
>>> advantage.
>>> But yes, it's also confortable to just keep LXDM, and hope it will be ok
>>> for this cycle.
>>>
>>> I propose to switch to LightDM for the next alphas, but to confirm the
>>> choice before the Beta 1. If we realize it's too much work, we can still
>>> go back to LXDM.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Julien Lavergne
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Summarize of proposed changes on applications by default

[PCMan]

2011/6/19 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna) 

> **
> +1 here
>
> Fully agree.
>
> 1. LXDM is working really well. LightDM is not polished.
>
I have a cool greeter for lightdm in the git repo, but due to recent API
changes its broken now.
Author of lightdm provided some patches but I did not have time to touch
them at the moment.
Once it's fixed, it provides the same UI as LXDM and it's much more themable
than lxdm.
In my implementation, the theme can be edited with Glade in a WYSIWYG way.
But I have to find some time to fix it.

>
> 2. XChat is used by those who are members of "something" (coders,
> collaborators, corporate...) not by normal people.
>
> 3. Leafpad is enough. Remember that many of us use even "nano" on a
> console, that is more basic (except for the keystrokes).
>
>
>
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> [image:
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Call for review: PCManFM is almost ready for a new release.

[PCMan]

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 1:07 PM, PCMan  wrote:
> Thank you for the patches. I took some time to look at them and found
> some issues.
>
>    jmarsden committed 1963619
>    Add LINGUAS, reference doc files and libfm-pref-apps.desktop launcher:

Regarding to the LINGUAS file, we have a special issue here.
In the past, we ship LINGUAS file with the packages. After we
introduced online tranlation systems, I changed this part and have the
configure script scan the po dir, and build the LINGUAS file
on-the-fly. So each time a new language is added from the translation
systems, nobody needs to edit the LINGUAS file.

Pros:
1. Nobody needs to maintain LINGUAS file.
2. Everytime a new language is added, it's immediately available and
will be picked up automatically by the build process so users can test
the translations immediately.
3. XFCE, AFAIK, seems to use similar approach

Cons:
1. If some newly added po files are broken, this automatically breaks
the build process.
2. Some translation with bad quality becomes available before they're
well-tested.

Current approach is very convenient, but later proven to be
problematic sometimes if there are some broken po files added to the
repo. So, should we change it? If we do change it, I hope that our
translation coordinator can help maintain the LINGUAS files for all
LXDE components to keep them up to date.
Any comments?

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Call for review: PCManFM is almost ready for a new release.

[PCMan]

Thank you for the patches. I took some time to look at them and found
some issues.

jmarsden committed 1963619
Add LINGUAS, reference doc files and libfm-pref-apps.desktop launcher:

We do not translate desktop files directly. Neither do we commit the
translated desktop files.
We did the translation for desktop files in po files, and only put
*.desktop.in files in git.
So the translation should go to *.po, and merged with *.desktop.in
during build process.

jmarsden committed 530ac5a
Ensure correct icon is used in panel.
A better fix is to set the icon-name property for the window in
GtkBuilder glade file instead.
We generally avoid building dialog UI in source code and tend to use
GtkBuilder instead when applicable.

jmarsden committed 284a164
Add GLIB_LIBS when linking documentation.
This seems to be fine, but I'm not sure which files should be pushed
to git repo since some are generated files.

jmarsden committed b61f3d6
Disable deprecated gio code by default.
This looks fine, but will this affect distros with older versions of glib?

jmarsden committed 618594e
API change deprecating fmpath_new
This one looks fine.

jmarsden committed 09b6061
Specify default terminal emulator (was: 01-lxde-conf.patch in Ubuntu
The x-terminal-emulator thing IIRC is Debian-specific. So this better
goes to debian package rather than upstream.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Jonathan Marsden  wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:12:06 +0800 PCMan  wrote:
>
>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=156956&atid=801864
>
> OK, thanks, that's good to know.
>
>>> SUGGESTION: Let's test the current "almost-0.9.9" codebase, fix any
>>> major issues found in the next week or so, then bump the SONAME version
>>> and release it before the end of June 2011.  Can we do that?
>
>> Yes, if with help from the community. No if I do it myself.
>> Patches from Lubuntu is appreciated.
>
> Since you mentioned it:
>
> I *already* turned  libfm patches from Julien's Ubuntu package of
> libfm into a git repo for you, six commits, and posted about doing
> that to this list.  All that was left for you to do was to cherrypick
> which ones you want to include in the upstream sources:
>
>  https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg03977.html
>
> As far as I can see, *none* of them have been included so far!  Either I did
> something wrong, or else you don't really want those patches?  Help me
> understand what I have to do so you will accept the commits I made for you 
> from
> Ubuntu patches, please.
>
>>> Since some testers seem to need packaged versions to test, I'll look at
>>> creating a test unofficial package from git for them, so we get slightly
>>> more testing.  Another way to go would be to release a 0.9.9~rc1
>>> tarball, and a corresponding one for libfm, if that is preferred --
>>> doing that means noone has to use git head for packaging :)
>
>> That's true.
>
> I'm playing with writing a script to grab the libfm git head and
> Julien's package and automatically create a new package based on the
> combination of the two.  It doesn't quite work yet... if it does, I'll
> try to do the same for pcmanfm, and then we can create test packages for
> pcmanfm testers much more easily :)
>
> Jonathan
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Pidgin XChat

[PCMan]

Agree with you. People all have their own favorite applications.
For me I installed Google Chrome and removed chromium.
I use emesene for MSN and Skype for VoIP. I use Pidgin for IRC only.
I use geany for text editor and I'm not using Leafpad at all.
After installing Lubuntu, the first thing I do is removing Abiword and
installing LibreOffice.
But we are talking about "default applications".
If you like something, just apt-get it, and there is no need to make
it installed by default.
The default for a distro should be sensible and less confusing for
general users.
If we like, there can be a meta-package named
"lubuntu-power-user-desktop", then you can even have eclipse as
default editor + gimp as default image program if you want. lol

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 6:19 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
> Le Saturday 18 June 2011 à 19:20 +0100, Yorvyk a écrit :
>> No point in having two applications doing the same thing so drop
>> XChat.  I don't like Pidgin so will install XChat for IRC.
>
> Some people would like to keep XChat, but I can't find any good
> arguments for that. If you like a program, you know how to install it
> after the installation of the system. Some mentioned that the protocol
> implementation was better, but I didn't see any real comparaison.
> Finally, having 2 programs which do the same thing is usually a bad idea
> for a default install. I prefer to have 1 more language installed by
> default on the CD than a second IRC client.
>
> I'm still for the removal, unless someone come with a real good argument
> or an essential "use case" not covered by Pidgin.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Key 'super' (win logo) support

[PCMan]

LXDE by default use Ctrl+Esc. Doesn't Lubuntu incluide this?

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Filip Dominec  wrote:
> Once it works, I strongly recommend to use both Alt+F1 (the default shortcut 
> from Gnome), Super_L and Ctrl+Esc (the defaults from Windows) for menu.
> Filip Dominec
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:32:50 +0800
> PCMan  wrote:
>
>> The command to show the menu is "lxpanelctl menu".
>> AFAIK, just setting Super_L doesn't work. I tried this long time before.
>> Maybe someone can try it again.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
>> > Le Thursday 16 June 2011 à 16:56 -0400, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset a
>> > écrit :
>> >>          https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4791
>> >>         for touch only key 'super' use Super_L or Super_R in > >>         key="">
>> >>         if don't work use xev to determine keycode or keyname
>> >>
>> >
>> > Thanks for the information. However, I think we lack a command to
>> > actually show the menu :-/ As far as I know, only a click on the menu
>> > show the menu. We need this feature before using the keybind for
>> > Super_*.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Julien Lavergne
>> >
>> >
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Key 'super' (win logo) support

[PCMan]

The command to show the menu is "lxpanelctl menu".
AFAIK, just setting Super_L doesn't work. I tried this long time before.
Maybe someone can try it again.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
> Le Thursday 16 June 2011 à 16:56 -0400, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset a
> écrit :
>>          https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4791
>>         for touch only key 'super' use Super_L or Super_R in >         key="">
>>         if don't work use xev to determine keycode or keyname
>>
>
> Thanks for the information. However, I think we lack a command to
> actually show the menu :-/ As far as I know, only a click on the menu
> show the menu. We need this feature before using the keybind for
> Super_*.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Call for review: PCManFM is almost ready for a new release.

[PCMan]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Jonathan Marsden  wrote:
> On 06/13/2011 07:11 AM, Martin Bagge / brother wrote:
>
>> On 2011-06-13 14:27, Julien Lavergne wrote:
>
>>> So, what is missing for having a stable release of pcmanfm ? Any
>>> major features are still missing ?
>
> This is a key question for Lubuntu right now.
See this:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=156956&atid=801864

I give the bugs different priority. The ones with highest priority
should be fixed before 0.9.9, I think. Please see if you can help.
Personally I will take this one:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3094303&group_id=156956&atid=801864
This is my bottom line. At least this one should be fixed before 0.9.9.
>> Using git HEAD as source for a package in a distribution is not what
>> pcman wants (and I support this way).
>
> Agreed -- and the simplest way to prevent this is to release often
> enough that distributions do not feel any need to package from git :)
Yes, so I plan to make a new release and asked for testing here. In
the past I mistakenly released some broken stuff, and this should not
happen again, especially when there are more and more people using
this.

>>> Last official release is 2010-10-14 ...
>
> Which is both fairly old, and also "bad timing" regarding Ubuntu
> releases, being only about two weeks before the Ubuntu 10.10 final release.
>
> SUGGESTION: Let's test the current "almost-0.9.9" codebase, fix any
> major issues found in the next week or so, then bump the SONAME version
> and release it before the end of June 2011.  Can we do that?

Yes, if with help from the community. No if I do it myself.
Patches from Lubuntu is appreciated.

> Since some testers seem to need packaged versions to test, I'll look at
> creating a test unofficial package from git for them, so we get slightly
> more testing.  Another way to go would be to release a 0.9.9~rc1
> tarball, and a corresponding one for libfm, if that is preferred --
> doing that means noone has to use git head for packaging :)

That's true.
> Jonathan

Actually I have a primitive button-style path bar implemented in libfm
already, but I don't have time yet to add it to pcmanfm. I decided to
do it next time. Let's fix the important bugs first and make a good
release first.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Call for review: PCManFM is almost ready for a new release.

[PCMan]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
> Le Sunday 12 June 2011 à 01:21 +0800, PCMan a écrit :
>>
>> A new release as 0.9.9 is required. Please help review and test the code in 
>> git.
>> Thanks a lot.
>
> Thanks PCMan. So far, It's working nice on L/Ubuntu 10.10.
>
> Some comments :
> - Please bump the soname of your library each time you change your API.
> Distributions can do smooth transitions between versions of
> libfm/pcmanfm. Also, if you expect other applications to use libfm, you
> need to use the soname.
I want to do this for stable tarball releases only. In current stage
of development, change of API/ABIs can be frequent.
> - Is it possible to force a reload when you do any operations on a
> remote place ? When I create a file on my sftp place, I expect that it
> appears on pcmanfm after the creation. Monitoring is not needed, but any
> user interactions should affect what pcmanfm shows.
PCManFM should show the created files even on remote filesystems right
after you create them. Otherwise it's a bug.
> -  I'm not sure having the tabs above the sidebar is good. I personally
> prefer to have them just above the main window, like Nautilus do. But
> maybe other people like this behavior ?
Firefox + IE + Opera all does this. So does old PCManFM 0.5 series.
In addition, design like nautilus greatly limited the usability of
tabs since you can only have very few tabs due to limited space.
> - Don't hesitate to do releases often, it's better for distributions :)
> Even if bugs are discovered shortly after the release, you can still do
> a quick X.X.1 release to fix this.
Given the program is now used by so many users, it's better to have
releases with better quality.
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-i18n] Call for review: PCManFM is almost ready for a new release.

[PCMan]

The side pane menu should be translatable now. (fixed in git)
The strings are in libfm, not pcmanfm.
Cheers!

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Cilyan Olowen  wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> After a crash of my disk, I'm no longer on ArchLinux, but there the
> pcmanfm-git PKGBUILD from aur could not compile. Did you check that ?
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=BANLkTinj4%2BqhE5PtFBfer88zsxqAFdfz%2Bw%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=lxde-list
>
> Regards,
>
> 2011/6/11 Sergio Cipolla :
>> It's still showing the filesystem in the side-pane untranslated.
>> libfm/src/udisks/g-udisks-volume.c, line 241.
>> --
>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
>> ___
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>> lxde-i...@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lxde-i18n
>>
>>
>

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[Lubuntu-desktop] Call for review: PCManFM is almost ready for a new release.

[PCMan]

Hi all,
I'm here to call for a review for PCManFM as the source code in git is
in quite good shape now.
Many known bugs are fixed and I did much refactor to the tabbed
browsing part and merge changes in tab-rework3 branch with master.
Please help test and update translations in various distros. If things
are ok, I propose a new release.

Some major changes:
1. "Reload Folder" is available now in View menu.
2. "Directory Tree" mode is available in side pane.
3. Filesystem size is updated in a more correctly and efficient way.
4. Many bugs causing crashes are fixed.
5. Shows a warning icon in toolbar when running as "root".
6. Supports menu keys.

minor changes:
1. Fixed some memory leaks.
2. ~ and / to move focus to location bar
3. Improve internal structure of PCManFM.
4. Code cleanup.

A new release as 0.9.9 is required. Please help review and test the code in git.
Thanks a lot.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Proposed changes to lubuntu-desktop

[PCMan]

GEdit is miserably slow even on my new laptop. I would say GEdit -1.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Chris  wrote:

> Aloha oukou,
>
> I've got one suggestion for replacement, which is to replace leafpad with
> gedit. Note bloated in any way and handy syntax highlighting to boon.
>
> With metta,
>
> Chris Druif
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 01:13, Phill Whiteside  wrote:
>
>> Hiyas Boss,
>>
>> Me thinks now would be a good time to decide these items. Setting up a
>> vote, followed by a meeting may be a good idea?
>>
>> We have
>>
>>- June 14th : End of proposal for applications by default
>>
>> Followed by
>>
>>
>>- June 19th : Decision for the modifications of default applications
>>
>> @ ALL
>>
>> Yes, I know everyone who proposes their favourite application that is not
>> installed by default feels sore, hopefully in Lubuntu we are not that petty
>> as to leave because of it.
>>
>> Any application can be added from the repositories, some of the 'weird'
>> stuff people do to Lubuntu is a testament to just how rock solid it is.
>>
>> The old, and so far, not replaced rule is that a proposed application may
>> not...
>>
>> 1) Use any hard disk space up
>> 2) Use any CPU time when running
>> 3) Use any RAM when running.
>>
>> Whilst we may laugh at such rules, they are what make Lubuntu able to do
>> what it does on our minimal spec. For those with lots of Hard Disk space and
>> RAM and really high CPU's - Great. Lubuntu is lean, mean, keen and green.
>> BUT we are going to remain within our "Pentium II or Celeron system with
>> 128 MiB of RAM"
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Phill.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Lance  wrote:
>>
>>> "I say stick with what we've got and lets get Lubuntu twiddled and
>>> polished.
>>>
>>> "Remember when suggesting applications that the target is a couple of
>>> hundred MHz CPU and 128 MiB of RAM."
>>>
>>> Indeed, let's remain focused on keeping Lubuntu light. We also need to
>>> consider how many changes are already in the works ;^)
>>>
>>> I doubt the change to GTK+ 3 will be without numerous challenges, as will
>>> be transition to becoming a full-fledged Ubuntu release. No easy time for
>>> the limited number of devs.
>>>
>>> But, regarding software in particular this may come into play, from the
>>> ToDo (more than bite size) list:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Developers/TODO
>>>
>>> "Software-center : Work on a new minimal interface to see if it's
>>> possible to switch to SC: TODO "
>>>
>>> It may be possible that an appropriate version of SC could solve most of
>>> these problems. Maybe we could install even less and then let people decide
>>> what fits their needs and hardware best.
>>>
>>> But ATM we need to give the devs room to adjust to the changes at hand.
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Tue, 6/7/11, Yorvyk * wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Yorvyk 
>>> Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Proposed changes to lubuntu-desktop
>>> To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 2:19 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 13:06:28 -0400
>>> Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset 
>>> http://mc/compose?to=jpx...@gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > >From a very-humble user point of view:
>>> >
>>> > I use Libre Office + Gnumeric (Abiword can't convince me). As i read
>>> > recently, Libre Office is getting performance improvements, but the
>>> problem
>>> > is still the ram consumption vs the ram used by abiword (i use LO for
>>> writer
>>> > and slideshows, but gnumeric is a magnificient tool), LO is an option?
>>> It
>>> > could bring a slideshow editor to Lubuntu... Let individually decide
>>> but my
>>> > guess is that Lubuntu should remain with abiword & gnumeric for the
>>> concept.
>>> > Midori: in many ways it could be best than chromium, but as PCMAN said,
>>> it's
>>> > not stable at all .
>>> Try running Libre/open Office on a 160 MIB, 300MHz machine and I think
>>> you'll find it just becomes unpleasant.  Abiword does everything I need of a
>>> word processor, and I install it on Ubuntu as Libre/Open Office is j

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Proposed changes to lubuntu-desktop

[PCMan]

1. Lubuntu is lightweght + "good usability". Sometimes usability
should outweigh memory usage if the lighter alternatives are not as
usable, xpdf for example. Midori is not stable enough. In addition,
browser is the most critical part of a desktop system and is one of
the largest security hole. A famous browser with large user base can
have instant security fixes and more complete testing. So practically
I don't think there should be any real lighter alternatives.

2. LibreOffice is not Java-based. Java AFAIK is an optional dependency.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:02 AM, James Gifford  wrote:
> Just my two cents here - libreoffice is Java based, so (in my
> experience anyway) it probably isn't lighter-weight.
>
> You mentioned Midori. In my experience, Midori isn't good for the
> average user, and some sites (namely, gmail) refuse to work with it at
> all.
>
> Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth. :)
>
> --James Gifford
> http://jamesrgifford.com
>
> On Jun 6, 2011, at 21:57, Markus Brummer  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like to propose some changes to the lubuntu-desktop package. This is 
>> primarily meant to the developers, but other users may be interested.
>>
>> The point of Lubuntu & LXDE is to make a very lightweight desktop to end 
>> users. This proposal would 1) make many of the dependencies as recommends 
>> and 2) add lighter / better alternatives. This would in the end make the 
>> installation more flexible. Inspiration for this came from the 
>> xubuntu-desktop package.
>>
>> The following recommendations are packages that aren't necessary for the 
>> overall usability of Lubuntu: on a normal installation, all packages marked 
>> as recommended are installed.
>>
>> Package list (dep > rec):
>>
>> abiword / libreoffice-writer
>> ace-of-penguins
>> audacious
>> chromium-browser / midori
>> evince / mupdf / xpdf
>> file-roller / xarchiver
>> gnome-disk-utility
>> gnumeric / libreoffice-calc
>> lxtask
>> mobile-broadband-provider-info
>> modemmanager
>> mtpaint
>> sylpheed
>> transmission
>> xchat
>> xscreensaver
>>
>> -Markus
>>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] IRC Client

[PCMan]

+1 for dropping XChat.
The purpose of default applications are to provide a sane and
easy-to-use default for common users.
Learning how to use two different applications won't be easier than
learning one.
So using pidging for all protocols is supports do makes sense. Users
can learn once and use it for everything.
Power users who requires advanced scripting support can always install
their powerful favorites manually.
In the case of media player, gnome mplayer apparently has a bad music player UI.
That's why we need a separate music player. Otherwise mplayer works just fine.
For me, my favorite editor is geany, not leafpad.
However I won't ship a programmer's editor as a default text editor
for common users.
Having xchat specifically for irc instead of pidgin won't make that
much differences for common users, IMHO.
So only including pidgin might be better in this case.

On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
> On Sun, 29 May 2011 00:24:57 +0100
> Phill Whiteside  wrote:
>
>> If we are going to keep pidgin for IM, what do we need xchat for?
> It is on my TODO list for applications discussions. IMO, we should just drop 
> xchat. I always use pidgin for IRC, and it doesn't a pretty decent work.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
> --
> Julien Lavergne 
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Directory tree is now available in PCManFM!

[PCMan]

Everybody loves screenshot!

http://blog.lxde.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/pcmanfm-dir-tree-480x383.png

Directory tree in side pane was a feature in PCManFM 0.5 series, but
it’s not yet implemented in the latest rewrite. Yesterday, I finished
the rewrite for directory tree and added it to PCManFM. This new
feature is now availble in git repository. I also added a drop-down
menu to side pane to swtich between different kind of side panes.
Currently there are only “Places” and “Directory Tree”. Later I plan
to add more modes.

I also reworked the tabbed browsing part yesterday. Due to the
limitations of GTK+, I did some dirty hacks for it to reduce resource
usage. This comes at the price of less readable source code, though.
After the tab-browsing rework, I fixed an old bug causing incorrect
and outdated info shown in status bar so now the info in status bar is
up-to-date most of the times.  Later, I’ll try to add a “Reload”
button so remote filesystems without notifications on changes can be
refreshed manually.

To test the latest features, grab the source code from git.

You have to install libfm first:
git://pcmanfm.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/pcmanfm/libfm
This is the supporting library required by PCManFM.

Then install pcmanfm. Notice that the new feature is in "tab-rework"
branch, not in "master"
git://pcmanfm.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/pcmanfm/pcmanfm

If you don’t know how to compile libfm/pcmanfm from source code, read this:

http://wiki.lxde.org/en/PCManFM_build_and_setup_guide

Now, it’s time to fix the remaining bugs in the bug tracker and keep
heading for 1.0 release.
Cheers!

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] 11.04 issues

[PCMan]

PCManFM always shows icons only to save screen space.
So changing gtk+ settings won't affect it.
This is not a bug. It's by design.
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Tim Bernhard  wrote:

> OK, item 4 is not a bug.  I found the "Icons only" setting for the "Task
> Bar (Window List)".  You have to open panel preferences >panel applets>Task
> Bar (Window List)>edit!  Very hard to find and not very intuitive.  I've
> done this 4-5 times so far and I still have a hard time changing this
> setting.  If I remember correctly, Peppermint made this setting available in
> a much easier fashion.  I don't have a Live USB of Peppermint right now, but
> I'll make one up and check into it.
>
> So the real issue is the touch pad.  I HAVE to get scrolling to work on
> this sucker  I didn't realize this thing came with an Alps touch-pad. :(
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Tim Bernhard  wrote:
>
>> No Luck.  I'm beginning to think I'm looking in the wrong place.  What I'm
>> trying to do is have my "Task Bar (Window List)" show only the icons for
>> open applications.  I have this set on my other Acer.  Maybe I need to look
>> at it again an see if I can figure out how I did it.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 7:31 PM, 神癒礁湖  wrote:
>>
>>> I have no problem with it. Check this out. Open gconf-editor and go to
>>> /desktop/gnome/interface, look for a key called toolbar_style. You can have
>>> four posible values: both, both-horiz, icons, and text.  Try to change here.
>>> Have a PCManFM window opened near gconf-editor to see the changes. If
>>> nothing happens, please, tell me again, but test it first with another theme
>>> (open LXAppearance and select Clearlooks, for example).
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>   [image: Go to rafaellaguna.com]  
>>> [image:
>>> Go to Lubuntu.net] 
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fwd: Lubuntu and Accessibility

[PCMan]

For the panel, Brian Cameron has a good idea. He suggested that we can
use a different UI for orca.
That means, replacing all buttons in the bar with standard GtkButton
widget rather than some hand-made ones.
This looks ugly, but will have much better usability. If
"accessibility mode" is on, we use standard GtkButton with text label
rather than current ones with images on them.

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 6:58 AM, Phill Whiteside  wrote:
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Rob Whyte 
> Date: Tue, May 24, 2011 at 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Lubuntu and Accessibility
> To: Phill Whiteside 
>
>
> Hi guys,
> in my own efforts to get orca better with LXDE I conversed with Klaus
> Knopper the author of Knoppix.
> I have put his notes below..
> I also tried with nto much success to try and figure out why orca did not
> work with thunar though it claims to have great gtk support.
> Please find notes below and hope it is helpful.
>
> export SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN="gtk" GTK_MODULES="gail:atk-bridge"
> before starting a GTK program makes it aware of orca as screenreader.
> You need to start orca as well, of course.
>
> The panel containing the menu (lxpanel in our case) will send the
> "highlighted" menu item to orca automatically if the two variables
> mentioned before are set before starting lxpanel. The tricky part is to
> pop up the menu without the mouse. Unfortunately, lxpanel does not have a
> "hotkey" for this on its own, but the command "lxpanelctl menu" will
> notify lxpanel to show the menu. Now you add this command to the window
> managers hotkey list (which is different in compiz-fusion and metacity),
> and you are there. Once the hotkey (Alt-F1 in Knoppix) is pressed,
> lxpanelctl menu will be called, and the menu pops up.
>
> I did not find a way yet to browse through the dock icons in lxpanel,
> though it must be possible somehow, since using the mouse will focus the
> icons and lets orca speak them. Maybe, just the internal link between
> icons and a hotkey for selecting them is missing.
>
> pcmanfm works quite well with orca, though the "desktop background"
> version of it is not very talkative. If you start the windowed version
> of pcmanfm, you can switch between canvases with eithger TAB or the
> cursor keys (sometimes it's not very intuitive to understand which one
> to use).
>
> It should be possible, yet I'm unsure how to make the desktop manager
> part of pcmanfm put the focus on the first icon on the desktop. Once one
> item has the focus, you can browse through the desktop icons with the
> cursor keys.
> surely pcmanfm
> could need some accessibility enhancements concerning hotkeys and their
> documentation.
>
> in regards to accessing the panel,
> The only way I found so far is the "lxpanelctl" command which is to be
> called by the window manager. Alt-F1 pops up the menu in Knoppix.
>
> The hotkey modifications for compiz-fusion and metacity concerning the
> lxpanel menu is present in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/45knoppix. Here is an
> excerpt:
>
> --
>
> case "$STARTUP" in
>  *lxde|lx*) # Need to change Alt_F1 and Alt_F2 hotkeys in order to make LXDE
> menu accessible
>  sed -i -e 's/as_main_menu_key *=.*$/as_main_menu_key = Disabled/g' \
>         -e 's/as_run_command0_key *=.*$/as_run_command0_key =          -e 's/as_command0 *=.*$/as_command0 = lxpanelctl menu/g' \
>            "$HOME/.config/compiz/compizconfig/Default.ini" 2/dev/null
>  gconftool --type string \
>            --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/panel_main_menu disabled
> \
>            --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/panel_run_dialog disabled
> \
>            --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_1 '            --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_2 '            --set /apps/metacity/keybinding_commands/command_1 'lxpanelctl
> menu' \
>            --set /apps/metacity/keybinding_commands/command_2 'lxpanelctl
> run'
>  ;;
>  *) # Change Alt-F1 back when not running lxde
>  sed -i -e 's/as_main_menu_key *=.*$/as_main_menu_key =             "$HOME/.config/compiz/compizconfig/Default.ini" 2/dev/null
>  gconftool --type string \
>            --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/panel_main_menu ' \
>            --set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/panel_run_dialog '  ;;
> esac
>
> --
>
> Of course this can also be set manually in gconf-editor (metacity/gnome) or
> ccsm (compiz-fusion).
>
> Klaus Knopper
>
>
>
> On 23/05/11 19:58, Phill Whiteside wrote:
>>
>> Hiyas,
>>
>> much has happened recently, including lubuntu getting clearance for full
>> adoption at 11.10 by Canonical. Whilst I have quietly pushed
>> accessibility (well, maybe not so quietly) as a part of lubuntu, we now
>> need a bit of help off this team.
>>
>> Our specification of the minimal hardware it will run on cannot be
>> broken, nor can our commitment to pre i686 processors.
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu
>>
>>  From a general chat to our head of development on lubuntu, he is of the
>> opinion that if the 

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Work items and TODOs (LXDE)

[PCMan]

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Jonathan Marsden  wrote:
> On 05/23/2011 01:33 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote:
>
>> I'm not aware of any big crasher.
>
> Right click on the Lubuntu 11.04 desktop.  Click "Desktop Preferences".
>  In Desktop Preferences dialog box, click on the "Wallpaper mode" field.
>  Select "Fill with background color only".
>
> Crash!  X disappears, then lxdm shows up, your old session is history.
> Worse still, sometimes (maybe one time in ten?  I can't do it repeatedly
> or reliably!) lxdm does not come back, and you are left in a text mode
> screen with no prompt or other obvious way to proceed.
>
> That probably qualifies as a "big crasher", doesn't it? :)
Actually, this might be related to a recent bug of X11 itself rather
than the file manager.
http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2011-May/022281.html
http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2011-May/022455.html
>
> I'm not picky about my wallpaper, but IMO that's a fairly nasty bug.  If
> you have any unsaved work in open windows in your session, most likely,
> you will lose it.
>
> There is a (possibly related) strange (but less dramatic!) effect if you
> select the Wallpaper field instead, and then press Escape.  It sets it
> to (none), but closing the dialog does not then do what it should, it
> seems to just totally ignore the setting change.
Then this sounds like a bug.
> Jonathan

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] LXDE plans and priorities

[PCMan]

Thanks for the comment.
Some new features are indeed fixes for old bugs, especially usability bugs.
In addition, some new features require some degree of refactor and
this can affect bug fixes.
For example, in the file manager, after I added directory tree to the
side pane, an old patch in the tracker is no longer needed. Nor can it
be applied.
For the lxpanel stuff, I really think that we need to use libwnck
instead of using our own X11-handling code. Libwnck is well-tested and
is in production use for years and it's built for this kind of task.
Adding this little lib does not make LXDE significantly more
resource-hungry, but it can save much time for maintenance and
debugging. Replacing some taskbar and pager code with libwnck can fix
part of the bugs quickly.

For gtk+ 3 transition, I want to add src/gtk-compat.[ch] to every LXDE
components and add compatibility later there.
Some macros are replaced by functions in gtk+ 3 and this can be easily
fixed in a header with some macro definition.
Maybe later I'll add this to libfm/pcmanfm first.

Previously I tried to make a tool in lxde/devtools/min-lib-ver with
python. This tool is used to determine the minimal gtk+ version
required by the project, but I don't have time to finish it. I want to
scan the source tree and find out all gtk+ APIs used. Then, determine
minimal version of gtk+ required. This one can be very helpful for all
gtk+ using projects. Unfortunately it's half done.
Is there any tool to help gtk2 -> 3 transition?

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Jonathan Marsden  wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 08:41 PM, PCMan wrote:
>
>> After this one is finished, I'll try to find some time to fix other
>> bugs in the file manager.
>
>> As for other lx-* stuff, I currently don't have enough time to fix
>> them. Really glad that you can help.
>
> OK.  Personally, I think that when developer time is really really
> limited (which it seems to be!), we should focus on the basics:
>
> (1) Fix all major bugs that are biting our users, and then
>
> (2) Code cleanup needed to ensure it builds and runs with newer
> compilers, libraries, etc. (e.g. GTK3 transition, and GCC 4.6 is in
> Debian sid already... so we need to check LXDE builds fine there, and
> fix it if not).
>
> After that, if we possibly can, we then do
>
> (3) occasional official source tarball releases (maybe every six months?
>  or every 12 months if every six is too much work).  This is so that the
> work that *is* getting done in (1) and (2), even if fairly small, is
> more easily available to users, and to other Linux distributions,
> without them having to dive into a git tree.
>
> [From a Ubuntu/Lubuntu perspective, we probably need a new
>
> *Anything* at all more than that, things like new enhancements, test
> suite, refactoring code, etc. should be considered a luxury, a *bonus*;
> we should not plan for it at all, unless we have the developer time to
> do it!
>
> This approach is not much fun for programmers (no new fancy
> functionality to design and code!), but IMO it is what allows a project
> to stay alive and remain at least somewhat useful to users.  Hopefully,
> our doing (1), (2) and (3) consistently and reliably (and well!) will
> attract more developers who like LXDE... so we can then do more of the
> fun stuff.
>
> Does this make sense?
>
>> 3. lxterminal: currently we have no maintainer for it. Previously a
>> friend on our mailing list is willing to take over it. So maybe we'll
>> have a new maintainer later. Another option can be using Roxterm
>> instead.
>
> Given my tendency to sit at the command line a lot, I *might* be able to
> take this on, but not yet, and this is not yet a committment, OK!  I am
> not much of a GUI/GTK programmer at this point.  But perhaps once
> Oneiric is out, I could think more seriously about taking maintainership
> of lxterminal on for the longer term.
>
>> These are my current plans. Any suggestions are appreciated.
>
> See above.  I think your plans are fine, but may be ambitious given how
> small a team we are.  I would suggest (you probably will not feel good
> about this!) that you work on bug fixes even in lx* programs before
> adding anything new at all to any of them.  Keeping current LXDE users
> at least reasonably happy is #1 priority, if you want the project to
> survive.  Users do not like significant bugs.  Sorry if that sounds a
> bit negative, but it would be my main suggestion after reading your plans.
>
> Jonathan
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Work items and TODOs (LXDE)

[PCMan]

Another problem I got in libfm.
When I tried to add gtk-doc and glib-testing supports to it, some
errors happened during make.
Actually I did not know how to correctly use these tools. Help is
needed in this part.
An option may be removing gtk-doc support for now since there are no
usable API docs yet.

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Jonathan Marsden  wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 04:06 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote:
>
>> Thanks Jonathan :) Don't forget to update the TODO page next time :)
>
> OK... I tend to only remember to update TODO when the job is done, not
> when I start working on it!
>
>> http://gitorious.org/lxde-jmarsden/libfm-jmarsden/commit/09b606108146cdc5bfa8167021baf50931edef36
>> Not sure it's suitable for upstream. As far as I know,
>> x-terminal-emulator is a Debian / Ubuntu stuff.
>
> I wasn't sure, but that's why I did they one patch per commit -- whoever
> approves or rejects the commits *will* be sure.
>
>> http://gitorious.org/lxde-jmarsden/libfm-jmarsden/commit/19636195842d26843718bb5900ffea4f8fd28076
>
>> The modifications on .desktop should not be applied, it's generated at
>> build time. That's also mean that the patch in the package is wrong :-/
>
> OK.  Do we still need some sort of patch to the template, or is the
> patch to the .desktop just useless, because it will be overwritten
> during build?  Should I make a another commit removing that change to
> .desktop ??
>
>> I hope to finish merging patchs from Ubuntu / Debian today, except for
>> libfm/pcmanfm (I don't have commit access to the branches).
>
> Great!  Then I won't do any more of these, since you are almost done
> with all the rest :)
>
> Once they are all "in", is there anything preventing you and pcman from
> doing a source tarball release of LXDE -- maybe an rc1 release??  Then
> we can package from that and if all looks good, you guy can do a 'real'
> new LXDE release?  Are there any automated test tools/test suite for
> LXDE, incidentally?
>
> There seem to be some fairly bad "segfault" type bugs being reported in
> some of the lx* tools in Lubuntu 11.04 -- have you looked at any of
> them?  How serious are these issues?  Making a preference change should
> not cause the preference editor to crash, for example :)
>
> Jonathan
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Work items and TODOs (LXDE)

[PCMan]

ther commit removing that change to
> .desktop ??
>
>> I hope to finish merging patchs from Ubuntu / Debian today, except for
>> libfm/pcmanfm (I don't have commit access to the branches).
>
> Great!  Then I won't do any more of these, since you are almost done
> with all the rest :)
>
> Once they are all "in", is there anything preventing you and pcman from
> doing a source tarball release of LXDE -- maybe an rc1 release??  Then
> we can package from that and if all looks good, you guy can do a 'real'
> new LXDE release?  Are there any automated test tools/test suite for
> LXDE, incidentally?
>
> There seem to be some fairly bad "segfault" type bugs being reported in
> some of the lx* tools in Lubuntu 11.04 -- have you looked at any of
> them?  How serious are these issues?  Making a preference change should
> not cause the preference editor to crash, for example :)
>
> Jonathan
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)

[PCMan]

So who is eating the spaces?
Many some disk-analyzing tools are needed here.

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Mikhail Maksimov  wrote:
> Hi, list.
>
>> I suspect the number could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size
>> check, but I have not tested that yet.
>
> No it can not. Tests done on alpha3 show that the system requires at least
> 2000 MB ("decimal" M) just to install with almost no free space left. Too
> bad Lubuntu is no longer lightweight in terms of disk footprint.
>
> Regards,
> Mikhail
>
> PS I know that the original letter is two weeks old :)
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Marsden 
> wrote:
>>
>> My workaround works!
>>
>> Replying to myself:
>>
>> On 05/01/2011 12:29 AM, Jonathan Marsden wrote:
>>
>> > There is a file within the Lubuntu 11.04 ISO called
>> > casper/filesystem.size but it seems to be unchanged since 2010-09-06 and
>> > I don't yet know what if anything actually uses it :)
>>
>> Based on Julien's very handy pointer to the commit that broke this for
>> us, I just edited the file casper/filesystem.size in the Lubuntu 11.04
>> ISO image to say
>>
>> 137000
>>
>> (a round-ish number about half the value that was previously in the
>> file, plus 50MB as a safety margin!) and then updated the md5sum.txt
>> file to reflect that edit, and created myself a modified ISO image from
>> the result.
>>
>> That's a pretty trivial change, but, unlike the official 11.04 image, it
>> installs and runs fine in a 3GB virtual disk, at least in my initial
>> testing here (under VirtualBox 4.0.6).
>>
>> So, we seem to have a code-free workaround :)  I suspect the number
>> could be lowered to around 9 for a 1.8GB size check, but I have
>> not tested that yet.
>>
>> I can make this "hacked" ISO available for download, but it is a bit
>> 'dubious' at this point from a support point of view, since it does not
>> 'say' anywhere in its menus etc. that I modified it!  I need it to refer
>> to itself as 11.04.jm1 or something, so it is clearly not the official
>> Lubuntu 11.04 version, if there is going to be much use of it.
>>
>> If anyone has an urgent need for this ISO image, let me know.  It is now
>> 1am here, and I have to go to work tomorrow (today!!) so I don't have
>> time to create the ".jm1" identified image right now... I need some sleep
>> :)
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Work items and TODOs

[PCMan]

Seriously, Lubuntu did a lot of fixes to the original LXDE and most of
them are quite good.
Can anyone help integrate the fixes with upstream source code?

On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Jonathan Marsden  wrote:
> On 05/06/2011 02:53 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote:
>
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Developers/TODO
>
>> Let me know if it's usable for everyone.
>
> Works for me.  I fixed a pile of the bitesized bugs already :)
>
> Jonathan
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] system requirements (workaround created!)

[PCMan]

Just some thoughts.
Will it be better to run "df" periodially at a several second interval
during installation to get a more accurate number?
So we can know the disk usage every second during the installation process.
The maximum of the values collected plus a safety margin is the
minimal disk space "required" for installation.
After installation, we run df again to see how much disk space is
used. Then, we reserved some space, maybe 256mb for swap and some
space for other apps, maybe 512 MB. This value is the disk space
"suggested".
We need more accurate number by measurement rather than by assumption.
Is anyone willing to do this?

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Jonathan Marsden  wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2011, Chris  wrote:
>
>> We would need to find a more permanent I think, but until then your ISO
>> would be a great alternative for people with small discs.
>
> OK, my tweaked Lubuntu ISO that installs to smaller disks than the
> official one is now available for download at
>
>  ftp://ftp.jmarsden.org/pub/lubuntu-11.04.jm1.iso
>
> It's md5sum is available as
>
>  ftp://ftp.jmarsden.org/pub/lubuntu-11.04.jm1.iso.md5
>
> NOTE: Even though the change I made was very small, this is an
> unofficial test ISO.  If it somehow breaks your PC, eats your cat,
> elopes with your girlfriend, or otherwise misbehaves, neither I nor
> Ubuntu will accept any liability for that :)
>
> Jonathan
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Status Update for the File Manager

[PCMan]

OK, it’s time to tell the world what we’re doing to the file manager
Here is a status report for PCManFM.

Several bugs are fixed, and others are not. I’m currently working on
fixing them.
1.Directory tree will be available from side pane again in next
release. I have finished 50% of the feature and hope that I can make
it in the following weeks
2.Tabs now takes less space when showing filenames that are too long.
3.The location bar is re-written. Now auto-completion for directory
paths works more correctly.
4.I have implemented a simple button-style path bar recently, but to
add it to PCManFM, some changes to the UI are needed so this might not
be available yet in the next release.
5.Integration with lxshortcut is planned. So you can create new
application shortcut on the desktop easier, but this is not yet
implemented.
6.Status messages are now more correct and human readable.
7.Some code cleanup was done to make the source code more readable to
future contributors.
8. While fixing bugs of PCManFM, I found a severe bug in udisks
regarding to CD-ROM polling. This bug leaves the filesystem on CD-ROM
mounted even after the media has been removed via pressing physical
eject button on the device. I made a patch for it, but upstream
authors did not accept the patch. They came up with a new solution
utilizing the latest in-kernel polling provided by Linux kernel and
did some fixes themselves. So in the near future, this bug will be
resolved anyways.

So these are basically what I’m doing on the file manager recently.
Please help if you can. Thanks a lot.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Any major "must fix before Beta" issues left in Lubuntu?

[PCMan]

Currently the alternate CD contains a nice text-based installer.
What I suggested is to make a new installer based on the current one
in alternate cd.
However, the new installer only install the minimal base system + core
utils + X11 + gdm + drivers to harddisk. Then, reboot into X11 and
then we can launch a GUI installer from hard-disk to finish the
remaining parts, which can partially based on ubiquity. This solves
all the problems in an elegant way.

1. Text-based installer only does disk partitioning and install base
system. So actually nothing needs to be done by the user manually
except for disk partitioning. It's nearly automatic.

2. After rebooting, we boot from hard-disk into a clean X11 session
with only GUI installer running. So we're not running the live cd and
hence the memory usage can be ``minimal'', < 128 MB I guess. The GUI
installer is the only GUI programming running under X11 and we have no
running desktop environment, so it can use all the RAM available. So
we can write the GUI part without worrying about RAM usage. So
developing the GUI installer can be much easier than developing
ubiquity since memory usage is no more an issue. We can do what we
want easily in it.

Personally, I think this kind of installer is most suitable for our
system since it has good efficiency, functionality, smaller memory
footprint, and better reliability then running on live cd.

2011/3/31 Jorge Andrés Alvarez Oré :
> +1 alternate CD
> It´s suppose that the minimal memory for use Lubuntu is 192MB, but with
> 256MB to install it, it´s impossible to use it with a very old computer.
>
> My suggestion it´s to share a text install (alternate CD) by default. Anyway
> now Lubuntu isn't for beginners Linux user, so with a text install no body
> will be complicated. (My experience: the first Linux distro that i install
> [Ubuntu 7.04], i installed with the alternate CD, with my 256MB of ram
> memory [and Pentium 4 celeron] was impossible to install with GUI. Even if
> was my first install i could do it without a problem. The installations it´s
> intuitive.
> Sorry for my English.
> 2011/3/30 PCMan 
>>
>> Text based installer + 1.
>> The alternate CD with console-based UI is good enough IMO if it can
>> have l10n user interface.
>> Windows installer has long been text-based since windows 3.1 and it's
>> still text-based in windows xp. Nobody complains of this so why should
>> we insist that there should be a graphical one?
>> Yes, if you boot from Windows xp installer cd on a machine without OS,
>> you'll enter text-based installer. The GUI part is only available
>> after the basic system is set up.
>>
>> Actually, we can do the same.
>> The text-based installer (part I) only installs base system and core
>> components and then reboot and automatically login X11 with a super
>> user. After boot, a GUI-based installer (part II) is launched and
>> continues the remaining parts. This can make things much easier.
>>
>> The only problem with this approach is, we cannot have a good
>> GUI-based UI for partitioning. Windows XP handle this in text-mode,
>> too. However, I see no real problem here. The rationale is quite
>> simple.
>>
>> Users who doesn't know how to use text-based UI are also the ones that
>> will almost always choose "automatic partitioning". Others who like to
>> use "customized" and "manual partitioning" are definitely advanced
>> power users who don't need a GUI installer.
>> So don't put 80% of development resources to do what only 20% people need.
>>
>> Please, if someone know how to work with the text-based debian
>> installer, consider this approach. Let's set up a base system with the
>> text-based one, and continue the remainng parts in a GUI installer
>> after rebooting into X11. This is also what Windows does.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
>>  wrote:
>> >> >> Unfortunately, it will be very difficult to reduce the memory
>> >> >> footprint
>> >> >> of the installer for 11.04.
>> >>
>> >> The other question this poses is, is it really necessary to have a
>> >> graphical installer as the default for Lubuntu?
>> >
>> > Some time ago, there was a question on the mailing list "What do you
>> > expect
>> > from Lubuntu" and i think that a very important point is "it will go
>> > where
>> > Ubuntu can't" or something like that.
>> > A graphical installer is something that we do only one time (in theory)
>> > so
>&g

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Any major "must fix before Beta" issues left in Lubuntu?

[PCMan]

Text based installer + 1.
The alternate CD with console-based UI is good enough IMO if it can
have l10n user interface.
Windows installer has long been text-based since windows 3.1 and it's
still text-based in windows xp. Nobody complains of this so why should
we insist that there should be a graphical one?
Yes, if you boot from Windows xp installer cd on a machine without OS,
you'll enter text-based installer. The GUI part is only available
after the basic system is set up.

Actually, we can do the same.
The text-based installer (part I) only installs base system and core
components and then reboot and automatically login X11 with a super
user. After boot, a GUI-based installer (part II) is launched and
continues the remaining parts. This can make things much easier.

The only problem with this approach is, we cannot have a good
GUI-based UI for partitioning. Windows XP handle this in text-mode,
too. However, I see no real problem here. The rationale is quite
simple.

Users who doesn't know how to use text-based UI are also the ones that
will almost always choose "automatic partitioning". Others who like to
use "customized" and "manual partitioning" are definitely advanced
power users who don't need a GUI installer.
So don't put 80% of development resources to do what only 20% people need.

Please, if someone know how to work with the text-based debian
installer, consider this approach. Let's set up a base system with the
text-based one, and continue the remainng parts in a GUI installer
after rebooting into X11. This is also what Windows does.

Comments?

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
 wrote:
>> >> Unfortunately, it will be very difficult to reduce the memory footprint
>> >> of the installer for 11.04.
>>
>> The other question this poses is, is it really necessary to have a
>> graphical installer as the default for Lubuntu?
>
> Some time ago, there was a question on the mailing list "What do you expect
> from Lubuntu" and i think that a very important point is "it will go where
> Ubuntu can't" or something like that.
> A graphical installer is something that we do only one time (in theory) so
> if it's a little "ugly" (text) IMHO i don't see the problem.
> --
> jpxsat
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Natty Alpha 3 released

[PCMan]

Though posted on freedesktop.org, XSettings is actually a Gnome/GTK+
standard without concensus.
Qt, KDE, and all the others to my best knowledge don't support this.
This is yet another example of Gnome pushes others to use its standard
and call their technology "cross-desktop" solution.
LXDE, which is based on gtk+, of course uses XSettings, but this only
works for gtk+ apps.
At least I solved the XCursor problem in a more desktop independent
way so I hope that we can solve the font one in the similar manner.
Actually, when I'm planning LXAppearance, I wanted to write some
config values to qtconfig to make it more cross-desktop but later I
found this very difficult. Any better idea?

On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
> Le samedi 12 mars 2011 à 16:35 +0800, PCMan a écrit :
>> I did a quick review and found a problem in lxappearance.
>> The Xft antialias stuff is not as easy as it looks like.
>> See this page: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ScreenFontSettings
>> There is no common standard for this and things are totally in a mess.
>> The most cross-toolkit and cross-desktop way seems to be using Xrm.
>> Since gtk+ uses cairo, it might support Xrm, too.
>> But using gtkrc and XSettings can get the config dynamically applied
>> in gtk+ applications.
>> I'm not sure if Xrm works for Qt4. IIRC Qt4 doesn't use Xft.
>> Anyway, if possible I don't want to do it in a gtk+ specific way.
>> Any thoughts or comments?
>
> Is XSettings not supposed to be a standard way to interact with this
> settings ? I think it will be easier (at least, for the short term) to
> stay with XSettings, as many parts of lxappearance use this.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Natty Alpha 3 released

[PCMan]

I did a quick review and found a problem in lxappearance.
The Xft antialias stuff is not as easy as it looks like.
See this page: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ScreenFontSettings
There is no common standard for this and things are totally in a mess.
The most cross-toolkit and cross-desktop way seems to be using Xrm.
Since gtk+ uses cairo, it might support Xrm, too.
But using gtkrc and XSettings can get the config dynamically applied
in gtk+ applications.
I'm not sure if Xrm works for Qt4. IIRC Qt4 doesn't use Xft.
Anyway, if possible I don't want to do it in a gtk+ specific way.
Any thoughts or comments?

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
> Le vendredi 11 mars 2011 à 19:11 +0800, PCMan a écrit :
>> From the list, I'm sure that you have done a great job to patch the
>> components and added exciting features here and there.
>> However, the upstream authors do not have time to merge these changes
>> at the moment due to lack of man power.
>> Some nice changes should definitely go upstream.
>> Can anyone help?
>
> I plan to merge the changes into lxde git branches. I already added some
> gilir-fixes branches for several lxde components with some of the
> modifications. If you are agree, I can commit then directly to git
> master branch, so it will be easier to review it by others. I'll be very
> happy if I can drop all the patches and ship instead git snapshot of
> lxde git :)
>
> Let me know if you are agree, I can merge the changes during next week.
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Natty Alpha 3 released

[PCMan]

>From the list, I'm sure that you have done a great job to patch the
components and added exciting features here and there.
However, the upstream authors do not have time to merge these changes
at the moment due to lack of man power.
Some nice changes should definitely go upstream.
Can anyone help?
It's almost 20:00 PM now here, and I'm still at work in the hospital. :-(
I didn't have my dinner yet and I'm exhausted now.
Help is definitely needed.

Thanks

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The Lubuntu Natty Alpha 3 iso is now available for testing. Please thank
> Jonathan Marsden who provide this ISO :)
>
> Please note that Lubuntu Natty is based on Ubuntu Natty, same
> warning apply :
>
> "Pre-releases of Natty are *not* encouraged for anyone needing a
> stable system or anyone who is not comfortable running into occasional,
> even frequent breakage.  They are, however, recommended for Ubuntu
> developers and those who want to help in testing, reporting, and fixing
> bugs."
>
> == What's new ? ==
> - New automatic way to build the ISO, expect more build in the futur.
> (thanks Jonathan Marsden)
>
> - Modifications to the applications by default :
>  * Switch from aqualung to audacious for the music player.
>  * Switch from xarchiver to file-roller for the archives.
>  * Switch from cheese to gucview for using webcams.
>
> - New added applications by default :
>  * Java support (via icedtea-plugin)
>  * Gucharmap
>  * Lxkeymap
>  * Various documentations
>
> - Lubuntu is now HAL free (thanks Xubuntu dev)
>
> - Lxrandr (Monitor settings) is able to save the configuration. Check
> the .desktop in ~.config/autostart/lxrandr-autostart.desktop
>
> - Lxappareance is able to configure the font (antialiasing) and openbox
> directly.
>
> - You are now able to call directly obconf to configure the number of
> workspaces, on workspace applet.
>
> - Installer (ubiquity) support installation of Lubuntu and autologin
> configuration at install time includes in Ubuntu official repository.
>
> - Icons on the desktop are now moveable.
>
> - Fake transparency is available again.
>
> - Lubuntu use now Ubuntu font by default.
>
> - New text plymouth theme
>
> - Menu are now correctly translated
>
> - Menu have now an Administration and a Preference sub-menus.
> You can now change the layout on a Lubuntu session with lxkeymap
> (directly, or launched by lxinput).
>
> - Fix a critical crash on qemu / kvm (thanks Fedora)
>
> - Translations up-to-date with LXDE git.
>
> - Up-to-date LXDE and pcmanfm.
>
>
> == Specific Lubuntu changes ==
> - Nothing !
>
>
> == Testing ==
> You can find instructions for testing on
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing
>
>
> == Known bugs ==
> * In Install-only mode, the panel appear in the middle of the screen :
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/684802
> * Start menu of the Live-CD is not correctly translated.
> * Installer doesn't install correct restricted packages.
>
>
> == Reporting bugs ==
> You can find informations on how to report a bug on this wiki page :
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReportingBugs
>
>
> == Download ==
> Torrent:
> http://people.ubuntu.com/~gilir/lubuntu-natty-alpha3.iso.torrent
> Download: http://people.ubuntu.com/~gilir/lubuntu-natty-alpha3.iso
> Md5: http://people.ubuntu.com/~gilir/md5sum.txt
>
> Happy testing :)
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Ask yourself...

[PCMan]

Regarding to the menu editor, actually there is an easy fix.
To fork gnome menu editor and have it loads lxde-applications.menu
file instead of gnome's applications.menu.
It's written in python and patching this won't be too difficult.
However, maintaining a fork for such a project just to do this trivial
thing is a waste.
A better approach is to patch gnome menu editor, and have them load
other menu files when possible.
Anyone want to do this? It's in python so I'm sure this should not be
too difficult.
Doing this will bring gnome-menus dependency, though.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] PCmanFM drag & drop bookmarks

[PCMan]

It's a known bug filed in PCManFM bug tracker.
Please check the bug tracker for more info. Thanks.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 6:05 AM, Yorvyk  wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:51:41 +0100
> Julien Lavergne  wrote:
>
>> Le lundi 07 mars 2011 à 10:57 +, Yorvyk a écrit :
>> > Are you supposed to be able to drag a folder from the main pane to the
>> > bookmark pane to create a bookmark?
>> It sounds like something we should be able, but it doesn't seems to be
>> implemented yet.
>>
> It's something my 'new user' tried to do and does seem a rather obvious thing 
> to do.  Should I put in a bug for it?
>
>
> --
> Steve Cook (Yorvyk)
>
> http://lubuntu.net
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] insert blank dvd

[PCMan]

The file brasero.desktop needs to contain MimeTypes=x-content/* to make this
work.
Please refer to freedesktop.org mime spec for x-content/ stuff.
It's one of the gnome-standards which are added to the so-call cross-desktop
freedesktop.org specs without conscensus. Currently only gnome/glib/gio
supports it but since we use glib/gio, we support it anyways.
2011/3/1 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna) 

> When I insert a new disc PCManFM asks me what to do: use File-Roller (?) or
> Nautilus CD Creator (I have both desktops). Is there any possibility to
> include Brasero here? Or maybe it's an error in my installation?
>
>   --
>
>      
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Plan to have a new release for pcmanfm/libfm recently.

[PCMan]

Hi,
This month I got some time for coding and hacking.
So I started to fixed the bugs currently in our bug tracker.
I already fixed part of them and a new release is planned.
Now it should compile with either glib <= 2.26 or glib >= 2.27.
When glib >= 2.27 is used to compile libfm, the gio module won't be
built anymore.
Make sure that you have uninstalled old version first or the old gio
module can create problems.
Please help test the latest source code in git and report the problems
encountered. (if possible, with gdb backtrace included)
Some strings might be changed to fix usability issues during the
period, but I will try to change as few strings as possible.
The release date is not set since this new release should be approved
by our packagers/testers after proper testing and QA.

Cheers!

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] trash can question

[PCMan]

This one works, too.

[Desktop Entry]
Type=Link
Name=Trash
URL=trash:///
Icon=user-trash

PCManFM supports Type=Link

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Yorvyk  wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 08:16:55 +0100
> Zoltan Matlak  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is it possible to add trash can to desktop or to task bar? Or the only way
>> to access it is from the file manager?
>>
> Just open up leafpad and put the following in:
>
> [Desktop Entry]
> Type=Application
> Version=1.0
> Name=Trash
> Exec=pcmanfm trash:///
> Icon=emptytrash
> Terminal=false
>
> Save it as trash.desktop on the Desktop. The Desktop should then show a
> Trash icon, which will open pcmanfm.  Right clicking won’t work though.
>
> --
> Steve Cook (Yorvyk)
>
> http://lubuntu.net
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Applications by default: Replace xarchiver by file-roller

[PCMan]

File roller +1.
It doesn't have gnome dependency now and it does works better.

On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Stevo Vukovic  wrote:
> +1 for file-roller > xarchiver bug:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xarchiver/+bug/681400
>
>
>
>
> bug in file-roller not present on NFS network share
> 
> From: Yorvyk 
> To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 9:20:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Applications by default: Replace xarchiver by
> file-roller
>
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:35:24 +
> Yorvyk  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 03:43:00 -0800 (PST)
>> Stevo Vukovic  wrote:
>>
>> > -1
>> > Recently,  file-roller has an bug (repeated regression) when extracting
>> > multi-part  rar from network share (samba, sftp...). Better stick with
>> > xarchiver
>> > for some time.
>> >
>> >
>> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/639883
>> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/386795
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> At first I thought this problem wasn’t worth worrying about until I
>> realised it’s what I normally do.  I download files to my server then
>> extract them to the machine I intend to use them on.  Hopefully the
>> regression will revert during Natty’s development
>>
>>
> Forgot to add my benchmarks.
> Both take around 12-14 MiB but, Xarchiver is a slow CPU hog taking 4½ mins.
> to extract an 84 MiB ISO from a BZ2 file using 70% CPU while file-roller
> took 40 secs. and used 45% CPU. This was teh worst of 3 tests but Xarchiver
> was quite a bit slower throughout.  Lets hope file-roller gets sorted.
>
> --
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>
> http://lubuntu.net
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Applications by default : control-center

[PCMan]

This command can just work as a control center.
pcmanfm menu://applications/DesktopSettings
It's not perfect, but basically it's usable.
If the layout is not good, we can have a specialized menu file for it.

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Yorvyk  wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 18:19:25 -0500
> Ezra Morrison  wrote:
>
>
>> hi guys. I'd like to install lubuntu-control-center. are there any extra
>> repositories i have to enable?
>>
> It’s in the PPA here :
>
> https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa
>
> --
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>
> http://lubuntu.net
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Applications by default : lightDM instead of LXDM

[PCMan]

LightDM more or less works, but it has some glitches and it's hard to set up.
First, its upstart config file is not complete and needs  some fix.
Please if someone know how to do this, help the author.
Second, I never got it work correctly with console Kit and some
authentication thing.
Again, if anyone know how to get it work, please help.
Otherwise, it should be a good replacement for gdm.

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Yorvyk  wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 11:34:20 +0100
> Julien Lavergne  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For now, we have LXDM as display manager, but I would like to try
>> lightDM for this cycle.
>>
>> lightDM have several advantages :
>> - It's cross-platform, means other desktops may use it and support it.
>> - It'll proposed for inclusion is Ubuntu in natty+1, and if it succeed,
>> it means also more support.
>>
>> Support is important for this piece of software, because it's more
>> complex than a standard desktop application. It's also important to have
>> testers because it needs to deal with many different configurations and
>> situations.
>>
>> Another advantage : lightDM doesn't depends directly on GNOME component,
>> only the greeter (the login screen) who use have those depends. And
>> there is already a greeter which is similar to the LXDM one (thanks
>> PCMan :))
>>
>> You can read more on lightDM on the homepage [1] or on the blog of the
>> author [2]. You can also see the blueprint for inclusion in standard
>> Ubuntu [3].
>>
>> Also, I already plan to continue to maintain LXDM, so if lightDM is not
>> ready for 11.04, we will have the possibility to switch back to LXDM.
>>
>> A version to test it in a real installation will be available in the
>> Lubuntu Desktop PPA in several days.
>>
> LightDM seems promising and I think that, if it is ready, would be a good 
> option.  I would have to try it to give a proper response.
>
> --
> Steve Cook (Yorvyk)
>
> http://lubuntu.net
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Summary of the UDS

[PCMan]

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As promised, the summary of the UDS regarding Lubuntu development :
>
> == Nothing for the official endorsement for Lubuntu ==
> I had some discussions about this, but nothing happened during this UDS.
> There is still some work on-going, but nothing really new.
>
> == Unity by default on Ubuntu ==
> The big move on Unity + Compiz should not have impact on us. Maybe we
> will have more users because they don't like the GUI :)
>
> == Migration for GNOME3 ==
> Ubuntu will prepare the migration for GNOME3. They will try to build
> programs with GTK3, removing gconf and deprecated library. It's
> important for us, because we use GTK, Glib and some GNOME components.
>
> GTK3
> We need to decide if we move to GTK3 (need porting and testing) or stay
> with GTK2 (but mix GTK2 and GTK3). It'll probably be possible for a
> lubuntu-core session (I already created patches for some LXDE packages),
> maybe a LXDE session. But I doubt the full Lubuntu session will be
> GTK2-free :(

We can write some compatibility macros to ease the migration.
For example, gtk+ 3 prohibit directly accessing data members of GTK+
data structures.
However, this is used frequently in gtk+ 2. We can write wrapper
macros to make gtk+ code compiles under gtk+ 2.

> GSettings (indirectly)
> There is also a migration for Gsettings, to remove gconf. There is also
> less impact on us, but it could be needed if we want to get ride of
> gconf.
This gets rid of gconf, but introduces dconf instead.
So anyway we need some *conf thing from gnome, but now it's partially
bound to glib.
> Cleaning old GNOME libraries
> Like Ubuntu, we can start to remove some deprecated libraries :
>  * python-gnome2 + libgnomeui : removed
>  * libgnome2 + libbonobo : need only to be removed from
> gnome-power-manager
>  * libgconf + gconf : many depends (see GSettings)
>  * libglade : many depends too.
> == Netbook session ==
> The neetbook session didn't have many improvements during the 10.10
> cycle. When I see the development of the Ubuntu Netbook edition, I think
> we can do the same. I mean, we can try some experimentations in this
> session, to have feedbacks with less fear to break the interface. If
> it's good, we can add them to the main session.
>
> == LightDM ==
> I had a session on LightDM, the (probably) futur replacement of GDM in
> Ubuntu. It's seems pretty nice, and considering the problems we have
> with LXDM, it's something we will discuss :)

I have ported the GTK+ greeter used by lxdm to lightDM, and make it
freely themeable.
We can start porting old gdm2 themes to LightDM now.
The theme format I use can be edited with Glade-3 in a WYSIWYG way.
No more hand-written xml! :-)

> == Artwork Team ==
> There will be some activities with the Artwork Team, we may have some
> additionnal submissions for the artwork. The good thing : they
> considered us like any official derivated :)
>
> == Using askubuntu.com with tag lubuntu ==
> There is a new site for helping people named http://askubuntu.com/ . I
> think it could be a good addition to the documentation and the help on
> forums / IRC. If you do so, please use the tag lubuntu
> (http://askubuntu.com/tags/lubuntu).
>
> And if you have any questions, feel free to ask :)
>
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] cmov

[PCMan]

Is there any chance that we keep supporting these old machines?
I don't see any reason to force the use of i686.
Only the compiler flags need to be changed.
All programs should be able to be compiled with i586.
If supporting i586 is not allowed by Canonical, then I personally
think we need a fork.
A distro aimed to provide best desktop experience for old and limited
machines doesn't run on old machines at all. This is really ironic,
isn't it?

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Yorvyk  wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:10:45 +0100
> Phill Whiteside  wrote:
>
>> Julien,
>>
>>  as we are the last post of support for "older" computers, to  with
>> Canonical and them dropping the support from the kernel for i586 and below
>> that I thought that was the 'raison d'etre' for Lubuntu. We cannot turn our
>> backs on these people.  Just my 2 cents worth.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Phill.
>>
>> On 21 October 2010 00:02, Yorvyk  wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:07:04 -
>> > Christian Stöveken  wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hey,
>> > >
>> > > I just tried installing Lubuntu 10.10 on a K6 450 notebook and ran into
>> > > the cmov missing problem.
>> > > Since this distribution is designed to run on low end machines cmov
>> > > support should be compiled into the kernel
>> > > (imho).
>> > >
>> > > I just wanted to check if you're already aware of the missing cmov
>> > > support in recent kernels.
>> > >
>> > Sadly, yes.  See  this thread
>> > https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg02587.html
>> >
>>
> We’ll probably have to support 10.04 for a bit longer for these machines.
>
> --
> Steve Cook (Yorvyk)
>
> http://lubuntu.net
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Desktop icons are now freely movable!

[PCMan]

I just merged the latest movable desktop icon support to master branch.
So now it's available in git repository. If you're installing from git
you'll get it.

There are still some usability issues, but it mostly works quite well.
After two years, finally we have movable desktop icons. Really thank
you all for the patience.

To test the latest source code and help debug, please follow this guide:
http://wiki.lxde.org/en/PCManFM_build_and_setup_guide

If you want a screenshot, here it is:
http://blog.lxde.org/?p=804

Cheers!

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[Lubuntu-desktop] PCManFM now partially supports moving desktop icons

[PCMan]

Hi list,
I just did very primitive partial support for moving desktop icons.
Now the position can be saved and restored, but there are sitll some bugs.
As a proof of concept, however, it works already.
For the interested, the source code is in "move_icon" branch of our git repo.
So the desktop icons will become movable in version 0.9.8, finally.

Cheers!

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[Lubuntu-desktop] I'm going to release pcmanfm 0.9.8 + libfm 0.1.14 this week.

[PCMan]

Hi list,
Recently I fixed many old bugs of the pcmanfm 0.9.7.
The drag-and-drop issue is also fixed, too. I rewrote that part.
Bookmarks are reorderable and dropping files to side pane works flawlessly.
Now it's time for a new release.
The strings are not yet completely frozen. Most of them won't be changed.
However, to fix one or two bugs, changes to some strings seem to be inevitable.
Some new error messages might be added, too.
Please help test the latest source code in git.
If there are no major issues, I'll make a new release this weekend.

Cheers!

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] plymouth

[PCMan]

I'm also one of the people who want to remove Plymouth.
It creates random crashes everytime I boot my system.
Sometimes it works well and gives me nice boot screen with the nice artwork.
Sometimes it just hangs forever and show random pixels on my screen.
Then my laptop became unresponsive so I need to power it off directly.
This happend about once per 5 ~ 10 times of boot which is quite frequent.
So obviously, the critical usability problems it creates outweighs the
visual effect it brings.
I really hope that it can be removed from the system, or it can be turned
off in a sane way.
BTW, in the past usplash always work on my box, but plymouth is really
problematic.

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 6:45 AM, Rafael Laguna wrote:

>  The ideal is a MacOSX-like, that includes machine, disk loader, operating
> system and desktop, everything with a smooth transition, but it's impossible
> right now with Linux. I'm fully agree with you, after repairing this
> annoying thing, I can only see the logo for about 1 second. So, why don't we
> uninstall it?
>
>   --
>
>   
>
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Plan to release pcmanfm 0.9.8 and libfm 0.1.3

[PCMan]

Hello,
It has been quite a long time since pcmanfm 0.9.7 was released and
there has been many bugs.
Recently I fixed the most critical ones and plan to make a new release 0.9.8.
So translators please start updating the strings.
To be honest it's not yet in a string frozen state.
Since I haven't finished all the work, one or two new strings might be
added later.
Existing strings won't be removed or modified if there are no obvious errors.
So it's safe to start the translation now.

Important changes:
1. Fix many critical errors and crashes reported in bug trackers.
2. Rewrite path and URI parsing. This part is tested with unit test
and becomes much more robust. Multiple slashes are now handled
correctly.
3. gtk-doc support is added. Now it's possible to generated API doc,
but you need gtk-doc when compiling libfm. Configure option
--enable-gtk-doc needs to be used, too to enable this. The generated
doc can be read in devhelp. But documentation is still a work in
progress and it's not useful now.
4. I'm now trying to rewrite drag & drop handling. If I succeed, the
Dnd-related bugs can all be fixed and it's possible to start trying to
make desktop icons movable.
5. Minor UI improvement for popup menus
6. Desktop wallpaper resizes when screen resolution changes.

While other LX* components are being updated, pcmanfm is not dead. The
development is still ongoing and there will be a new release soon.

Cheers :-)

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[Lubuntu-desktop] A status matrix of all LXDE components

[PCMan]

I just created a status matrix of LXDE components on our LXDE wiki.
This matrix shows you the current status of every LXDE component.
The content of this wiki page is far from complete, but it’s just a start.
http://wiki.lxde.org/en/Status_of_LXDE_Components
So, please take a look if you’re interested and help complete the page
if possible.
If there are errors in the page, feel free to fix them.
Cheers!

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[Lubuntu-desktop] New mailing list "lxde-i18n" for LXDE translators

[PCMan]

In the past we used  to coordinate
translation work for LXDE. This mailing list server, however, suffers
from unexpected downtime sometimes recently and has some maintaince
issues. To eliminate the maintaince load and provide more stable
service, we’re moving to a new mailing list hosted on sourceforge.net
after some discussions. Since all other LXDE-related mailing lists are
all on sourceforge.net, it’s quite natural to do so for translations
as well.

Address of the new mailing list is: 
To subscribe or unsubscribe, please go to:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lxde-i18n

Current and potential future translators of LXDE, if you see this
message, please subscibe to the new mailing list instead. We already
start using the new mailing list to coordinate translation work. The
traffic of the list is low and we call for translations when a new
release is being planned. The lxde-i18n list is specifically used for
translation and related discussions only. General development issues
are discussed using the “lxde-list” mailing list.

Some new releases of LXDE components are now being planned. So let’s do it!

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] Try to make a conclusion for lxsession-logout and screen locking.

[PCMan]

So here is the design choice.
To implement locking program detection in script and depends on
dbus-send, or to implement this in C code to have no other
dependencies since we already use dbus?
Maybe this time doing it in C can make things easier than using scripts.
Suggestions?

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 5:26 AM, Guido Berhoerster
 wrote:
> * PCMan  [2010-09-14 22:46]:
>> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:19 AM, Guido Berhoerster
>>  wrote:
>> > * PCMan  [2010-09-14 15:48]:
>> >> > No, running "gnome-screensaver-command -l" without
>> >> > gnome-screensaver running will print
>> >> > **Message: Screensaver is not running!
>> >> > and return exit code 1.
>> >> This is not the case on my box.
>> >> It tried to launch gnome-screensaver even if this command failed.
>> >> I'm using ubuntu 10.04.
>> >>
>> >> Please read the source code of gnome-screesaver-command.
>> >> Is doesn't do what you said.
>> >>
>> >> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screensaver/tree/src/gnome-screensaver-command.c
>> >>
>> >> It exit with code 1 only when you pass wrong arguments, when dbus is
>> >> not available, and when you query the version number.
>> >> It return 0 even if gnome-screensaver is not running.
>> >> The dbus call, however, will cause the gnome-screensaver service being 
>> >> launched.
>> >> I don't know the version of gnome-screensaver you're using, but from
>> >> the latest code in git, it doesn't not work the way we want.
>> >
>> > I admit you are right on this one, the DBus autostart seems to
>> > have been introduced in April:
>> > http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screensaver/commit/?id=47155576403fea9339a1f702e3dc63455b763fb8
>> >
>> > They more or less silently changed the behavior of
>> > gnome-screensaver-command breaking shell scripts (including one
>> > of mine for inhibiting the screensaver while running an
>> > application) relying on the previous behavior which was modeled
>> > after xscreensaver-command, just lovely.
>>
>> Since they do things with the dirty way, here is a dirty solution I
>> came up with.
>>
>> dbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply
>> --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.NameHasOwner
>> string:"org.gnome.ScreenSaver"
>>
>> Maybe this command line can do the trick.
>
> The problem is that dbus-send might not necessarily be installed
> even when dbus itself is.
>
>> > If someone has gnome-screensaver installed and is running another
>> > screensaver I don't see any way to tell from a shellscript which
>> > one to use now.  Looking for a process is just plainly broken and
>> > unreliable by principle, e.g. someome might suspend before the
>> > session has started gnome-screensaver, see
>> > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=616225
>> But this should be a rare case. Maybe we should ask gnome-screensaver
>> developers how to solve this.
>
> I think that is the proper solution.
>
> --
> Guido Berhoerster
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Lxde-list] Try to make a conclusion for lxsession-logout and screen locking.

[PCMan]

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:19 AM, Guido Berhoerster
 wrote:
> * PCMan  [2010-09-14 15:48]:
>> > No, running "gnome-screensaver-command -l" without
>> > gnome-screensaver running will print
>> > **Message: Screensaver is not running!
>> > and return exit code 1.
>> This is not the case on my box.
>> It tried to launch gnome-screensaver even if this command failed.
>> I'm using ubuntu 10.04.
>>
>> Please read the source code of gnome-screesaver-command.
>> Is doesn't do what you said.
>>
>> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screensaver/tree/src/gnome-screensaver-command.c
>>
>> It exit with code 1 only when you pass wrong arguments, when dbus is
>> not available, and when you query the version number.
>> It return 0 even if gnome-screensaver is not running.
>> The dbus call, however, will cause the gnome-screensaver service being 
>> launched.
>> I don't know the version of gnome-screensaver you're using, but from
>> the latest code in git, it doesn't not work the way we want.
>
> I admit you are right on this one, the DBus autostart seems to
> have been introduced in April:
> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screensaver/commit/?id=47155576403fea9339a1f702e3dc63455b763fb8
>
> They more or less silently changed the behavior of
> gnome-screensaver-command breaking shell scripts (including one
> of mine for inhibiting the screensaver while running an
> application) relying on the previous behavior which was modeled
> after xscreensaver-command, just lovely.

Since they do things with the dirty way, here is a dirty solution I
came up with.

dbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply
--dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.NameHasOwner
string:"org.gnome.ScreenSaver"

Maybe this command line can do the trick.

> If someone has gnome-screensaver installed and is running another
> screensaver I don't see any way to tell from a shellscript which
> one to use now.  Looking for a process is just plainly broken and
> unreliable by principle, e.g. someome might suspend before the
> session has started gnome-screensaver, see
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=616225
But this should be a rare case. Maybe we should ask gnome-screensaver
developers how to solve this.
> For lxsession I'd propose to use my script and remove
> gnome-screensaver-command from the list.  If someone wants to use
> it, it can still be added as an explicit locking command in the
> config file.
>
> Since I find changing the cli silently in a minor version upgrade
> unacceptable I am also going to file a bug against
> gnome-screensaver.
> --
> Guido Berhoerster
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] lxkeymap, an app to switch keyboard layout easily

[PCMan]

Looks interesting.
Do you have any online repository for your source code?

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Leszek Lesner  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> here is the newest version of LXKeymap 0.2 .
> It comes with an expert mode allowing for setting very much every keymap
> and variant known to the system.
> I also updated some common keymaps and variants.
> Here some screenshots:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38932...@n00/4986344591/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38932...@n00/4986344603/
>
> and the deb:
>
> http://zevenos.com/files/lxkeymap_0.2_all.deb
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Try to make a conclusion for lxsession-logout and screen locking.

[PCMan]

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Guido Berhoerster
 wrote:
> * PCMan  [2010-09-14 06:56]:
>> No, your script didn't do the right thing.
>> If gnome-screensaver is not running, gnome-screen-saver-command
>> shouldn't be called.
>> If you do this, gnome-screen-saver will be launched, but nothing will happen.
>> At the same time it's possible that the user is actually running 
>> xscreensaver.
>
> No, running "gnome-screensaver-command -l" without
> gnome-screensaver running will print
> **Message: Screensaver is not running!
> and return exit code 1.
This is not the case on my box.
It tried to launch gnome-screensaver even if this command failed.
I'm using ubuntu 10.04.

Please read the source code of gnome-screesaver-command.
Is doesn't do what you said.

http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screensaver/tree/src/gnome-screensaver-command.c

It exit with code 1 only when you pass wrong arguments, when dbus is
not available, and when you query the version number.
It return 0 even if gnome-screensaver is not running.
The dbus call, however, will cause the gnome-screensaver service being launched.
I don't know the version of gnome-screensaver you're using, but from
the latest code in git, it doesn't not work the way we want.

>> If the user is running xscreensaver, and you call
>> gnome-screensaver-command, this will result in gnome-screensaver being
>> launched and xscreensaver being bypassed, which is just the wrong
>> behavior.
>>
>> Checking if the screensaver is currently running is necessary.
>> Relying on failure of their *-command programs is not a reliable solution.
>> That's why your script is not used directly.
>
> In fact it is the exact opposite, your approach is unportable and
> completely broken in different ways.
> Firstly, pgrep will happily match the screensaver of any user
> which might be logged into the system, it will even match if
> somebody is running "vi gnome-screensaver.txt", it is thus
> completely unsuitable for the job.
Then we need a better way to check it.
> Secondly, this check is unnecessary since the exit code of
> xscreensaver-command and gnome-screensaver-command will be 1 if
> the respective screensaver is not running.
>
> --
> Guido Berhoerster
>

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Try to make a conclusion for lxsession-logout and screen locking.

[PCMan]

No, your script didn't do the right thing.
If gnome-screensaver is not running, gnome-screen-saver-command
shouldn't be called.
If you do this, gnome-screen-saver will be launched, but nothing will happen.
At the same time it's possible that the user is actually running xscreensaver.

If the user is running xscreensaver, and you call
gnome-screensaver-command, this will result in gnome-screensaver being
launched and xscreensaver being bypassed, which is just the wrong
behavior.

Checking if the screensaver is currently running is necessary.
Relying on failure of their *-command programs is not a reliable solution.
That's why your script is not used directly.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Guido Berhoerster
 wrote:
> * PCMan  [2010-09-13 19:38]:
>> The features mentitioned in this mail is implemanted in "lock" branch now.
>> Please test if it works as expected.
>> If there are no obvious problems and objections, I'd like to merge it
>> to master branch to be included in the latest release of lxsession.
>>
>> http://lxde.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=lxde/lxsession;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/lock
>
> Please use the script I sent you, it does exactly the same as
> yours in 8 instead of 23 lines and it is actually portable.
>
> --
> Guido Berhoerster
>

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