Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread jon york

Hi guys, completely agree with all of this, but first i think is to determine 
what we want our market to be. Do we want to be out of the box, forget about 
needed to install something to make it usable (ie: flash, codecs) or do we 
want to be a bare minimum speedy OS. either way, i like both ideas, but we do 
need to determine what we wish to be and go for it. Il admit, i am ignorant of 
the rules or objectives we need to meet to be a ubuntu derivative, and we must 
adhere to that, But Mr. Ed Hewitt brings up some very valid points,

I have been selling linux based computers for years now, and I have a good idea 
of what people want either way.

Jon York



From: wiebelh...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:49:44 -0500
To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy
Slow)

Ed Hewitt makes some very good points , Something to look at would be the 
Fluxbuntu project the 7.10 Version was amazing because it was very very slim 
nothing except the essentials installed but it also retained the availability 
of all those other apps by using the official repositories. I don't think 
anyone has to worry about something missing because the people that would be 
drawn to Lubuntu would certinaly be savvy enough to fetch it for themselves.



What's good isn't always golden , I agree with the minilmist idea that Ed 
Hewitt proposed here.

Cheers!.

Dallas Wiebelhaus.





On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Ed Hewitt edwardahew...@googlemail.com 
wrote:


Hi,

I'm Ed Hewitt (chewit in IRC). I have just joined the Lubuntu team in 
Launchpad, I am very keen to give you help with the Lubuntu project. I have 
been using Xubuntu since 7.10 release, and over the years Xubuntu has been 
getting heavier and slower after each release. This has been down two things. 
First, the Ubuntu developers adding more applications and utilies to improve 
the usability of the operating system. Secondly, Xubuntu is just Ubuntu with 
Xfce 'bolted on'. No thought has gone into using as little gnome depencies as 
possible. These two points have made Xubuntu heavy and slow, and not a 
lightweight distro. It is very close to being as heavy as Ubuntu!




My worry with the Lubuntu project is that when it becomes an official Ubuntu 
distro, it will have loads of extra apps added which will make it slow and 
heavy like Xubuntu. It will be a waste your time creating a distro which went 
the same way as Xubuntu. I am writing this message to warn you that it could 
happen. I want to join the Lubuntu and help decide the best applications to add 
to the operating systems and ways to make it as light as possible.




I have looked at the Lubuntu application list and I am already concerned with 
the success of the project. It appears Lubuntu will have more applications 
installed than the Ubuntu install!

The best way I see Lubuntu being setup is to carefully follow the way Debian is 
created, since Debain is very lightweight. I believe it is best to use the 
Ubuntu minimal install with LXDE added on, then we add a carefully selection of 
applications. Such as:




Web browser - FirefoxEmail - ClawsChat - Pidgin, Xchat
Office - Abiword, Gnumeric, ePDFMedia - Totem, Rhythmbox (would like to use 
VLC, but it uses QT4)GIMP


Synaptic  Update Manager is a mustGnome network manager (need good network 
support, however it needs to start on boot up)
Some Xfce apps - Notifyd (very nice notification system), taskmanager (but 
could use lxde task), power manager


We want to keep the apps list small, basic apps which most people will use. 
Video editing, ftp clients and programming apps are not needed on the base 
install. If we add loads of apps, we will be a heavy distro. With Lubuntu its 
performance and lightweight first, sadly xubuntu forgot about that. 




Would like to hear what the whole team thinks and if I can be some help in the 
development of Lubuntu.

-- 
www.edhewitt.co.uk




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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread jon york

Hi guys, why dont we move this to the forum where it can be easier to document 
and organize these conversations?

also on that topic, in my opinion, we need to divide us into work partners, as 
right now, there is much discussion and no work being done. I think the first 
step, is quite simply that a select few people, who know LXDE and ubuntu the 
best, that they can create a base system that we can work with. this system 
should be very small, and include nothing but the neccesairy files to run lxde 
on ubuntu, as well as synaptic. that way, we can all have the same base system 
to work with, and test things out with.

Jon York



From: wiebelh...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:41:09 -0500
To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy
Slow)

Stabilized without hiccups at 128mb ram , that's without youtube lagging out , 
you can go lower no doubt.  

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Dallas Wiebelhaus wiebelh...@gmail.com wrote:


By the way , Chrome fits in like it's native and is running hella fast on this 
DE on my test box. I'm about to crank the ram down and see how low I can get.



On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Andrew Woodhead 
andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:



This is kinda surplus, the system is still ubuntu based so the standard repos 
can be used to install apps if they are needed.



If the OS is going to be as it says below, you may as well install a minimal 
install then have a gui to select apps which can then be installed off the 
repos. This however isn't the case, we are trying to make a smalland efficient 
distro with a decent amount of functionality without bloating the system with 
the likes of evolution, openoffice and firefox. These are fully installable 
once the installation has completed but the initial base system should be slick 
and quick





On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM, C David Rigby c.david.ri...@gmail.com wrote:




On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 18:40 +0100, Ed Hewitt and several others wrote:



discussion of keep it light or feature complete elided



Restating the obvious, but the engineering trade off is always between

ease of use/fully featured on the one hand and lightweight on the

other. The necessary criterion is to decide what we really want to

build, and make it unique and useful enough to attract interest.



I've proposed it before, but I'll say it again as more people are on the

list now (sorry that I've missed the IRC meetings for the last two weeks

where the app mix has been the topic of discussion). How about the

possibility of a very slim base install with the installer offering

bundles to meet individual needs and desires? Something like the

FreeBSD or Debian text installers comes to mind.



The base installation would be just a command-line, network-capable

system plus enough of X to get LXDE operational. We would be pushing the

real work to the installer. The installer, whether text-based or

grahpical, would need to provide a lot of choices of bundles to

install.



More importantly, I think the installer should provide something I have

yet to see. That something is extensive documentation of the choices of

bundles of applications, and what they mean in terms of system

performance vs features. It should be organized so that a savvy user

could bypass the explanations (or load a jumpstart script), but a novice

would get a detailed explanation of what the choices are and what they

mean for the final installed system.



My $0.02.



Cheers

C David Rigby





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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread jon york

i agree with c david rigby, in that maybe we can have a barebone system, and 
instead of having installers in the install process, maybe have some meta 
packages in the repo's where a user can download the 'full multimedia desktop' 
or the 'professional office tools' 

Jon York



Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:11:37 +0100
From: andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com
To: gbiz...@gmail.com
CC: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy
Slow)

I have a small script the guts the system of all the fluff I do not need. These 
days I use the minimal ISO and install from the repos what I need. So much 
better. My root partitions is currently 2Gb with the desktop + web browse + vlc 
+ transmission + pidgin + some plugins. Bliss 


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Glen Bizeau gbiz...@gmail.com wrote:

I agree,



Keep it small and lean, and apt-get anything you need.



The one question I think needs to be answered is  Are we making a

distro for newbies?



If we are then you will need a bunch of standard default apps... If

not, which I think in my personal experience with Linux and LXDE, this

will probably only be attractive to the more experienced user, who

like myself ends up uninstalling all the crap that comes with Ubuntu

anywayI think it should be mean and lean and if you want

something, go fetch it.



Synaptic should be front and center though, is a launcher so it's easy

ti find. And maybe a desktop document on the default install

explaining about the distro and why it is what it is, and how to get

software.



my two-cents



Glen



On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Andrew

Woodheadandrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:

 This is kinda surplus, the system is still ubuntu based so the standard

 repos can be used to install apps if they are needed.

 If the OS is going to be as it says below, you may as well install a minimal

 install then have a gui to select apps which can then be installed off the

 repos. This however isn't the case, we are trying to make a smalland

 efficient distro with a decent amount of functionality without bloating the

 system with the likes of evolution, openoffice and firefox. These are fully

 installable once the installation has completed but the initial base system

 should be slick and quick



 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM, C David Rigby c.david.ri...@gmail.com

 wrote:



 On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 18:40 +0100, Ed Hewitt and several others wrote:



 discussion of keep it light or feature complete elided



 Restating the obvious, but the engineering trade off is always between

 ease of use/fully featured on the one hand and lightweight on the

 other. The necessary criterion is to decide what we really want to

 build, and make it unique and useful enough to attract interest.



 I've proposed it before, but I'll say it again as more people are on the

 list now (sorry that I've missed the IRC meetings for the last two weeks

 where the app mix has been the topic of discussion). How about the

 possibility of a very slim base install with the installer offering

 bundles to meet individual needs and desires? Something like the

 FreeBSD or Debian text installers comes to mind.



 The base installation would be just a command-line, network-capable

 system plus enough of X to get LXDE operational. We would be pushing the

 real work to the installer. The installer, whether text-based or

 grahpical, would need to provide a lot of choices of bundles to

 install.



 More importantly, I think the installer should provide something I have

 yet to see. That something is extensive documentation of the choices of

 bundles of applications, and what they mean in terms of system

 performance vs features. It should be organized so that a savvy user

 could bypass the explanations (or load a jumpstart script), but a novice

 would get a detailed explanation of what the choices are and what they

 mean for the final installed system.



 My $0.02.



 Cheers

 C David Rigby





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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread jon york

Good point ed, 

we are forgetting our requirements, and getting head of ourselves.

so now that we are mostly agreed on being small and lightweight, what will be 
the minimum and recommended specs?

Jon York



Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:07:11 +0100
From: edwardahew...@googlemail.com
To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy  Slow)

I believe its a bad idea having different versions of Lubuntu, having different 
meta packages of Lubuntu is not what lubutnu needs. Its all about lightweight 
distro. The Ubuntu guidelines requires the distro to have one build, 
lubuntu-desktop.


All we need to do is make sure that this single meta package is bundled with a 
few lightweight apps for the end user to require out of the box which works 
well with the LXDE environment.
-- 
www.edhewitt.co.uk
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[Lubuntu-desktop] PCmanFM Trash Can

2009-07-07 Thread jon york

Hi guys,

just wanted to know if this issue was resolved or not, because for sure 
Canonical, as well as the following of Lubuntu will demand a trash can...

Jon York

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[Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

2009-07-07 Thread jon york

Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these are 
serious questions that need to be answered

in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other then 
because, also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and switch, 
or else this project will eventually fail.

in light of this, here are my questions

1- what will Lubuntu offer that any other version of *buntu does not offer?
2- what kind of performance increase shall we see with Lubuntu?
3- what is our geographic and demographic target?
4- is Lxde ready for its own *Buntu variant?
5- how will Lubuntu compared to Xubuntu in terms of GB install, Ram usage, 
performance and functionality?
6- what is the projected usage curve for this project?

these are hard questions to answer, however they do need to be addressed. I own 
a computer repair and sale company in Canada, and I and currently in university 
studying accounting and marketing. regardless of how we feel about it, we are 
competing for market share with countless Linux's including which many 
variants, official or not of Ubuntu. Is this system competing against all 
distro's? Xubuntu only? Ubuntu and Xubuntu? #!? or is it a system that will be 
aimed for the Windows/mac user to switch.

Jon York

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