Jon wrote:
I agree with you in general, but might have a few nits to pick. There are
specific titles in the USA for someone when he is in his official capacity
(as you have said). No hereditary or personal titles. When the judge is on
the bench you address him as your Honor, but on the golf
We also use the title Esquire for lawyers.
Once they've graduated and are given their JD (Doctor of Jurisprudence)
they have earned the title Esquire and the right to add Esq. at the end of
their signature. Never mind that an Esquire in the Middle Ages was someone
in fealty to a landed noble.
Craig,
I'll keep this short because on the whole I agree with you. The details of
the origin of the salute are a bit vague, the Navy never had a visor to
raise. And the right hand has always been the dangerous hand, even if the
left is called sinister. The tradition of raising the right hand to
Ron,
Let us recast that, and in the US a lawyer doesn't get a JD on graduation,
he gets a Bachelor of Law.
If we take the definition you have used from the NED then we could consider
the Esquir to be a sycophant, the shield carrier and aromor bearer. Let's
us fight, I'll hold your coat. That is
The expression Esquire in British usage came to mean gentleman in the
sense of someone who does not need to work for a living and thence
someone who moves in the circles of those who are of the gentlemanly
class. I suppose lawyers, who are as a class the most incurable of
workaholics,
Youth has always rebelled against whatever establishment they've grown up
with. I did it during the 60s. My parents did it thirty years prior. It's
the nature of youth and it is often with strong feelings of alienation
because of youth's need to prove itself to their elders. I'm not sure it's
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Roman Turovsky wrote:
In the States no politician would ever confess to loving classical
music, especially pre-election. Occasionally after many years in their
office they divulge that vice, but this is extremely rare.
Mrs. Bush is known for her active
Craig,
I agree with you in general, but might have a few nits to pick. There are
specific titles in the USA for someone when he is in his official capacity
(as you have said). No hereditary or personal titles. When the judge is on
the bench you address him as your Honor, but on the golf course
: Re: Elizabethan pieces for gov. figures.
Regarding the titles of pieces that are addressing the names of
various nobility:
I assume that some such titles are intended to be simple literal
descriptions. Many surviving dances and other pieces were originally
composed for various masques
What striking difference in taste are you referring to?
Would you prefer striking difference in custom or striking difference
in practice? I've little problem with those, and they would, perhaps,
stir up less side-controversy than any reference to modern public taste.
If you really think
There have been many good replies to my question. Thank you. My summary
would be that such Elizabethan servility was part of the grease (oops,
lubricant) that made the wheels of society turn.
Similarities can be found in modern America: calling a judge Your
Honor, military saluting, and
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Roman Turovsky wrote:
In the States no politician would ever confess to loving classical
music, especially pre-election. Occasionally after many years in their
office they divulge that vice, but this is extremely rare.
Mrs. Bush is known for her active appreciation of
Herbert wrote:
There have been many good replies to my question. Thank you. My summary
would be that such Elizabethan servility was part of the grease (oops,
lubricant) that made the wheels of society turn.
Similarities can be found in modern America: calling a judge Your
Honor,
Herbert wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Roman Turovsky wrote:
In the States no politician would ever confess to loving classical
music, especially pre-election. Occasionally after many years in their
office they divulge that vice, but this is extremely rare.
Mrs. Bush is known for her
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Honor, military saluting, and bowing to an audience.
... that you think such obeisance is somehow wrong.
I don't think it's in general wrong. But many youths rebel against it
from justifiable and/or strong feelings of alienation, often injuring no
Herbert wrote:
Honor, military saluting, and bowing to an audience.
... that you think such obeisance is somehow wrong.
I don't think it's in general wrong. But many youths rebel against it
from justifiable and/or strong feelings of alienation, often injuring no
one so much as
I've noticed several Dowland pieces with titles honoring governmental and
military figures (the Earl of Essex, a naval admiral, etc.).
The dedications strike the modern taste as greasy -- none of us would
compose a marching band piece (much less a lute piece) personally to a
distant military or
Herbert wrote:
I've noticed several Dowland pieces with titles honoring governmental and
military figures (the Earl of Essex, a naval admiral, etc.).
The dedications strike the modern taste as greasy -- none of us would
compose a marching band piece (much less a lute piece) personally to a
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
According to whose worldview? Just because it isn't done as frequently
since the days of John Phillip Sousa doesn't mean it's entirely beyond
the pale.
We seem to agree that it's done less frequently today than in the past,
and that is enough for
According to whose worldview? Just because it isn't done as frequently
since the days of John Phillip Sousa doesn't mean it's entirely beyond
the pale.
We seem to agree that it's done less frequently today than in the past,
and that is enough for my purposes.
You think dedicating a piece
On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 01:47 PM, Herbert Ward wrote:
I've noticed several Dowland pieces with titles honoring governmental
and
military figures (the Earl of Essex, a naval admiral, etc.).
The dedications strike the modern taste as greasy -- none of us would
compose a marching
On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 02:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
According to whose worldview? Just because it isn't done as frequently
since the days of John Phillip Sousa doesn't mean it's entirely beyond
the pale.
I guess nowadays people have high schools named after them rather
Am Don, 2004-02-12 um 21.33 schrieb Roman Turovsky:
According to whose worldview? Just because it isn't done as frequently
since the days of John Phillip Sousa doesn't mean it's entirely beyond
the pale.
We seem to agree that it's done less frequently today than in the past,
and
According to whose worldview? Just because it isn't done as frequently
since the days of John Phillip Sousa doesn't mean it's entirely beyond
the pale.
We seem to agree that it's done less frequently today than in the past,
and that is enough for my purposes.
You think dedicating a piece to
be forgiven.
Joseph mayes
From: Thomas Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 12 Feb 2004 22:42:36 +0100
To: Lautenliste [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Elizabethan pieces for gov. figures.
Am Don, 2004-02-12 um 21.33 schrieb Roman Turovsky:
According to whose worldview
pieces for gov. figures.
Am Don, 2004-02-12 um 21.33 schrieb Roman Turovsky:
According to whose worldview? Just because it isn't done as frequently
since the days of John Phillip Sousa doesn't mean it's entirely beyond
the pale.
We seem to agree that it's done less frequently
Herbert Ward at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've noticed several Dowland pieces with titles honoring governmental and
military figures (the Earl of Essex, a naval admiral, etc.).
How does one explain this striking difference in taste? Does a monarchist
mindset produce such servility? Perhaps
So the answer to your question of how to account for this difference in
taste is that taste has little to do with it. The political and social
reality has changed. Most of us are raised with the idea that everyone is
equal. In Dowland's time, such an assertion might have been construed as
Lutenists, to no
avail.
Vance Wood.
- Original Message -
From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: Elizabethan pieces for gov. figures.
I've noticed several Dowland pieces with titles honoring governmental
Yes - and they were obsessed therefore ...
Although Howard's post is acurate as ever I'm not sure if I would like
to follow him this time telling artists servile. If you read what has
survived from them I'm very sure they were very self confident as
artists and to a certain degree as
Roman Turovsky at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Most of us are raised with the idea that everyone is
equal. In Dowland's time, such an assertion might have been construed as
treason.
Didn't Quakers professed such a treasonous belief?
Something like it, and they drew a lot of heat for it. The
his voice most of the time
Scott
-Original Message-
From: Thomas Schall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:25 PM
To: Lautenliste
Subject: Re: Elizabethan pieces for gov. figures.
Of course you are right, but it seems to be fact that until the world
wars
to consider next time you
bow to an audience after a concert. :-)
Best wishes,
Stewart McCoy.
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lautenliste [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: Elizabethan pieces for gov. figures.
Yes
On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 06:32 PM, Thomas Schall wrote:
Nevertheless the individal did not had the importance it has today and
therefore artists of the renaissance would have seen their social and
intellecutal role very different to what we are used to seeing it
today.
Well, yes
A matter of manners as well as position. If you look at letters between
peers (equals) of the 18th and 19th century you will see them signed with
phrases like your humble and obediant servant (usually abbreviated). To
view the conventions of the past with the eyes of the present is always a
Regarding the titles of pieces that are addressing the names of
various nobility:
I assume that some such titles are intended to be simple literal
descriptions. Many surviving dances and other pieces were originally
composed for various masques and other entertainments that occupied
much of
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