Thanks for the interesting comments on Spain vs. Italy
A few years ago there was some discussion that the vihuela sources
weren't so clear about the strict no octave policy. What is the current
thinking on this?
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Could someone pls. explain why the thinner string is sometimes placed
above (baroque practice?) and sometimes below (renaissance practice?)
the thicker one?
G.
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Monica Hall
[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
I think octave stringing on the 5th
I think octave stringing on the 5th and 6th courses is now thought probably
and I think that John Griffiths does that although I am not certain.
The thing is that you have to get the strings perfectly matched so that the
high octave string enhances the low octave string but doesn't create a
Does Capirola say that you should play one or other string of an octave
strung course?
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com
To: mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk; dwinh...@lmi.net
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:20 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re:
Of course I did not mean the fourth but the third course, sorry for the
confusion. So Capirola as far as I know did not employ split octave courses.
Where does Fuenllana mention splitting the courses? I have not found any
reference. As I have no complete edition of Bakfark where does he use this
No. But he, together with Bakfark, Fuenllana and whoever propagated the
relatively rare gimmick of splitting the course. Fingering one of them
but playing on BOTH. Rather difficult to do though.
As to the placing of the thinner string in a course, I remember having
seen also modern
Let's not get confused here - the split course technique consists of
stopping only one string of a unison course so that the course produces
two different notes. This was used by Capirola, Fuenllana, Bakfark, and
possibly others. Playing the strings of an octave course separately is
a
Yes, for instance in Rechercar XIII one has to finger one string of the fourth
course and plucking both of them.
Op 12 mei 2015, om 18:18 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven:
Does Capirola say that you should play one or other string of an octave
strung course?
Monica
- Original
Hello, friends,
I seem to have misplaced my copies of The Queen's Treble (Anon / J.
Johnson).
Would somebody take pity and send me (or direct me towards) a good
performing copy?
1,000 thanks.
Cheers,
Lucas Harris
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To get on or off this list see list
Yes - that's what I thought.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 5:35 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vihuela Stringing
Let's not get confused here - the split course technique consists of
stopping only
Bakfark split course example:
Krakow lute book, Jesu nomen sanctissimum. Secunda pars: Sit nomen
domini bar 9
Fuenllana mentions the technique in his instructions
G.
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 7:47 PM, Lex van Sante [1]lvansa...@gmail.com
wrote:
Of course I did not mean the
I am glad you agree with me!
Monica
- Original Message -
From: [1]Antonio Corona
To: [2]Monica Hall ; [3]Dan Winheld
Cc: [4]Lutelist
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Vihuela Stringing
Dear Monica
I could not agree more.
There may be reason to rethink the splitting of the 4th course in renaissance
guitar technique. In the December 2012 LSA Quarterly, Michael Fink has strongly
argued for playing the octave seperately in the lowest course of the
renaissance guitar under cetain circumstances and for certain
A few thoughts:
I think it was John Ward's 1955 PhD thesis which started everyone on the
idea that the vihuela was strung in unisons, and it remained
unquestioned until quite recently, probably because with modern overspun
strings no-one thought there was a problem.
As far as lute stringing
Sorry. I didn't see all that stuff was still hanging on my first
message of this thread. Please excuse the clutter.
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To get on or off this list see list information at
Here's Mimmo's researched opinion:
The lute in its historical reality
by Mimmo Peruffo
p.22- The vihuela case: unisons or octaves?
1. Italian and German string making technology before 1570 ca. (the best
of that time)
was not so advanced as to grant the production of efficient enough bass
It is actually Bermudo who compares the 4-course guitar with the laud o
vihuela de Flandes.
The 4th course on the guitar is strung in octave.
It is true that Pisador implies that the 4th course was in unison. But both
sources seem to leave the question of the 5th and 6th open.
Monica
-
I suppose he meant Capirola.
Chris
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
At May 12, 2015, 8:27:26 AM, Monica Hall'mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk'
Fuenllana (1554) prescribes playing only one of the two strings in the
course in some passages (as does Dalza - does he?)
As far as I am
Thanks, Dan.
Just a footnote to the effect that if you have a double first course,
you're more likely to be tuning to a lower pitch (because otherwise the
total tension on the first course would be too great for comfort), so if
anything you'd be more likely to want octaves on the lower
Some of this seems to me to be a bit muddled.
In particular ...
Pisador (1552), talking about the 4th course, made it clear it ought to be
strung in unison:
Such a statement could imply that the use of octaves was standard but he did
not like it,
or it was not appropriate for his music. Hence
Briefly - the baroque guitar is strung with the high octave string on the
thumb side of a course because in much of the music it is more likely to be
used as a treble string incorporated into the melodic line. Historically
the most likely scenario is that the guitar had a re-entrant tuning and
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