[LUTE] Re: You Tube/Vimeo Question
That's a pity, Steve. Does anyone else have this problem? Rob 2008/11/26 Steve Ramey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rob, I tried this with DT's Bach Dm prelude on You Tube. I think it may have helped a bit, but was not entirely successful. After I let it load and play once thru, I played it again, but found more stuttering. Thanks for the thoughts. Steve __ From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Ramey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:12:03 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] You Tube/Vimeo Question Try letting the video completely upload before clicking Play... Rob 2008/11/25 Steve Ramey [EMAIL PROTECTED] All, When I click on the links to You Tube and Vimeo lute videos provided in the posts (and all other posts on those sites, as well), they invariably play, but with some brief sputtering in the audio accompanied by a freeze in the video at odd moments during the performance. What causes that? How can I get rid of it? My computer is an IBM Pentium III laptop running XP. My internet is DSL. Thanks! Steve -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 4. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: was something, now vinyl
Hey maybe Rob is right. Nope, Rob is right. Just to save everyone a lot of time and energy, I am ALWAYS right... ...except, maybe, this time... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: was something, now vinyl
Haven't you seen the Laurel and Hardy film where they have a gramophone in their Ford? Eventually it gets sawn in half at a sawmill... Drifting off topic? Rob 2008/11/24 Eugene C. Braig IV [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 02:43 AM 11/24/2008, Rob MacKillop wrote: Or play your records on a record player :-) Often good advice, but it's hard to listen to my vinyl on long trips via automobile. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: was something, now vinyl
Or play your records on a record player :-) Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Private Teacher Needed...
A lot of these around at the moment. Bin them. Rob 2008/11/22 David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 1:29 AM, Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Careful, looks like phishing! On Nov 21, 2008, at 12:36 AM, Brown Jerry wrote: Are you Available for Private Lesson. I received the same one. This time it didn't mention lute lessons, last time it did. David -- *** David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [4]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 4. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Miguel de Fuenllana
The link is to a private video which we can't view. Please adjust your settings, Daniel, so that we can all watch it. Rob 2008/11/22 Daniel Winheld [EMAIL PROTECTED] One more- opinions on mic placement, sound quality, appreciated. Can't tell if the mic is too close, sound level too high (extraneous white noise in background?) Thanks all, Dan Finally, original vihuela music played on the vihuela. You can watch it here: [1][2]http://vimeo.com/2312419 [2][3]images.vimeo.com/7805856D.jpg Miguel de Fuenllana [3][4]http://vimeo.com/2312419 -- -- References 1. [5]http://vimeo.com/2312419/l:transcoded_email 2. [6]http://vimeo.com/2312419?pg=transcoded_embedsec=2312419 3. [7]http://vimeo.com/2312419?pg=transcoded_embedsec=2312419 To get on or off this list see list information at [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://vimeo.com/2312419 3. http://images.vimeo.com/7805856D.jpg 4. http://vimeo.com/2312419 5. http://vimeo.com/2312419/l:transcoded_email 6. http://vimeo.com/2312419?pg=transcoded_embedsec=2312419 7. http://vimeo.com/2312419?pg=transcoded_embedsec=2312419 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 - Dm de Visee
OK - my final tests! [1]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test2 A few from David Tayler (various 'anonimous' settings) and a few samples from the free Glaceverb. Time to revise what I am trying to do here. If the result is that a 4,000 dollar piece of kit sounds better than a freebie - well, we could have guessed that from the outset. I'm not trying to get 'as good as a CD' on my laptop for minimal outlay. I'm just trying to make decent mp3 files for my website. The question then is, should I go for a straight recording with no added reverb? Some of you obviously favour that. However, to me it sounds dry. There is no bleeding between notes, no subtle overlap of resonance, which I alsways look for in a venue. This helps me phrase better. The problem with trying to recreate that ambience is that by adding electronic reverb, the reverberation is done after the performance and cannot influence the performance. So there is much to weigh up. All your comments and soundfiles have been useful, so many thanks, but ultimately I'll go with what feels right for me. The great positive is that I can do this sitting at home for almost no cash outlay. Booking someone to record and Master a disc would cost as much as buying the instrument in the first place. I think I can make better recordings than I have done before now, and I hope all this has been of use to some of you. Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test2 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 versus other recorders?
I used to have the Edirol. The Zoom H2 is better. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] H2 - Dm de Visee
I'm really sorry if all this recording-reverb discussion is boring some of you - it usually bores me, so I apologise. Hopefully it will only last another couple of days, but I have learned a lot in the last 24 hours. Davis Taylor, our resident recording maestro, has put my mp3 through a pair of very expensive reverbs, the (wonderful) results of which can be found at the bottom of the page: [1]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test However, David said it would be better if he could work from a wav file instead of an mp3. So, [2]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test2 is a page devoted to the Prelude in Dm by de Visee. At the bottom of the page is the wav file (11MB, so only click it if you have good broadband). If anyone wants to play with that, please do. I'd like to hear your results as mp3 files. David will be uploading his in due course. Before that is a number of versions of another performance of the same piece, some at 2 feet distance, some at 2 metres. I don't think the 2 metres versions are useable at all. My favourite is the Glaceverb Vocal6 (thanks to Tony Chalkley for suggesting the free Glaceverb). Your thoughts most welcome. Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test 2. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test2 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 - Dm de Visee
Which piece are you referring to, Anthony? David added reverb to my mp3 file of The Last Time I Came O'er The Moor, but hasn't yet done anything at all to the wav file of the Prelude in Dm. Rob 2008/11/21 Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rob This is the cost of new technology that allows us to replace sound engineers, secretaries and so forth: less work for them, and more tedious work for us; instead of playing or getting on with our essential work. But as most members on the list do now make their own recordings, your experience will help others spend a little less time, in initial experiments. This Waiv recording, as expected, shows that the non-compressed (or less compressed) format is superior, but most of us knew that). Or is this compressed by David, from your uncompressed waiv file? If that is the case, David has done an even more fantastic job than usual. Anthony Le 21 nov. 08 `a 14:06, Rob MacKillop a ecrit : I'm really sorry if all this recording-reverb discussion is boring some of you - it usually bores me, so I apologise. Hopefully it will only last another couple of days, but I have learned a lot in the last 24 hours. Davis Taylor, our resident recording maestro, has put my mp3 through a pair of very expensive reverbs, the (wonderful) results of which can be found at the bottom of the page: [1][2]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test However, David said it would be better if he could work from a wav file instead of an mp3. So, [2][3]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test2 is a page devoted to the Prelude in Dm by de Visee. At the bottom of the page is the wav file (11MB, so only click it if you have good broadband). If anyone wants to play with that, please do. I'd like to hear your results as mp3 files. David will be uploading his in due course. Before that is a number of versions of another performance of the same piece, some at 2 feet distance, some at 2 metres. I don't think the 2 metres versions are useable at all. My favourite is the Glaceverb Vocal6 (thanks to Tony Chalkley for suggesting the free Glaceverb). Your thoughts most welcome. Rob MacKillop -- References 1. [4]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test 2. [5]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test2 To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test 3. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test2 4. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test 5. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test2 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 - Dm de Visee
Yes,that reverb is smashing ! There is one (Lexicon 480) on ebay for a mere 4,000 dollars. At that price I would expect it to play the instrument for me as well... [1]http://tinyurl.com/58wfn8 Rob -- References 1. http://tinyurl.com/58wfn8 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 test
Thanks Val. The reverb I used was 'Small Room' - you should hear what 'Cathedral' sounds like! I agree with you, but going back to the first (non-reverb) version after hearing the second version - it suddenly sounds very dry, and not how I hear it when I am playing. There is too much reverb on the second version. Somewhere in between the two would be best, I think. I also agree that the H2 has more upper frequencies. I prefer it. More opinions welcome. Rob 2008/11/20 Sauvage Valery [EMAIL PROTECTED] My opinion : more clear trebles with the zoom H2 than sony mic on laptop. Seems on the sony high frequencies cut. Version 2 with reverb... personal opinion, even if reverb made sound more like pro recordings, or concert in a church, I'm not sure I would prefer it. I think (again it is speculation...) music, apart of religious one, was not played in churches, but now it is the place we go to concert, so we have this natural reverb when coming to a live concert. So sound engineer try to produce the same sound on recordings, and now we are used too. But, does lute players play in churches, most probably in rooms, perhaps not often in the great halls of castle reverbing too, but small intimate rooms with few people. So my preference goes to the version 1 (of course it is subjective... as usual) Val -Message d'origine- De : Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoye : jeudi 20 novembre 2008 09:27 A : Lute List Objet : [LUTE] H2 test I managed to borrow the Zoom H2 recorder from my work place. I was contemplating buying one, and am gald of the opportunity to test one before parting with cash. I recorded three versions of an arrangement of The Last Time I Came O'er The Moor. Your thoughts regarding sound quality much appreciated. The three versions: 1. Straight H2 wav file compressed to MP3 2. The same recording but with reverb added - the reverb might come as a bit of a shock after hearing the first version, but give it a few moments to let your ear tune in before making a decision 3. My previous method of recording with a Sony mini stereo mic straight into the laptop, with reverb added. This was done a couple of weeks ago. Quite a difference in tempo! Go to [1][3]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test Rob MacKillop PS As this is a baroque guitar recording, I've cross posted to the vihuela and lute lists (quite a few H2 users on the latter). BTW, I'm using Nylgut on all courses, diapason on D only. Guitar by Maestro Batov. -- References 1. [4]http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test 4. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 test
David, I think my phrasing would definitely change if you were kneeling with your head inches from my sound hole! Otherwise, useful comments... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 test
Roman has sent me three more versions, two churches and the Concertgebouw... Concrete walls - the Nero wave editor allows various wall surfaces, drapery, carpeting, etc, most of which sound terrible. Rob 2008/11/20 David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've added another two files, one with very little reverb. I still The little reverb version isn't quite natural. The concrete walls (what's the set-up here?) is more convincing. David -- *** David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [4]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 4. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 test
Thanks, Dan. Yes, beautiful music - a foretaste of the recording I'll be doing with the viol player, Jonathan Dunford, in February. Imagine such airs on the viol - really beautiful, and Jonathan is a major-league player. Looking forward to working with him. Regarding Eastern European Asian Steppe stock - plenty of (welcome) evidence of that in Edinburgh these days; not sure about the 17th century, though. It will be interesting to hear Scottish music in three hundred years time... Regarding reverb - I am drawn towards melodies that float in the air, linger a while before disappearing into the ether. A good natural reverb helps sustain these notes for a fraction of a second, tugging at the heart a little longer. It makes a huge difference to the perceived sound. I hear it even in my small room, but I don't hear it on the dry recording. Trying to recreate it with technology is a fools errand, but one I feel compelled to try. There is a difference between hearing the instrument and hearing the music... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: H2 test
If you could bear hearing it again (it's driving me crazy!) I've uploaded three new versions, one tweaked by Alexander Batov which I really like, and two by Tony Chalkley which are also excellent. I have the same software (Nero) as Alexander, so that looks promising, but the Glaceverb used by Tony is very professional, but would mean another learning curve...it never ends. [1]www.songoftherose.co.uk/test I'll do another take tomorrow at a greater distance. The present one was done about 2 feet from the mics. Rob -- References 1. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/test To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player
2008/11/18 Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, I have been told that most lutenists find their playing drops by around 20% when playing in public or before the mike. Anthony, it is actualy 17.8 per cent. Please get your facts right. This is a scientific list. We care about such discrepancies. Some lutenists are using these to put up their definitive performances of a piece Are they really? Surely there can be no such thing? I certainly would never claim any of my performances have ever been definitive. (Something we can all agree on!) Rob MacKillop -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player
I agree that MP3s are not the same quality as CDs, and add that CDs are not the same quality as vinyl. I wish I had made an old-fashioned LP. I suppose I still can, but it would be very expensive. I bought a 1930s gramophone a couple of years ago to play 78s. I was able to contrast the sound of some Benny Goodman/Charlie Christian recordings on 78s and CDs. I can state that, in my opinion, sound reproduction has not improved at all - it has just got different. With the CD versions (re-mastered) I can hear every instrument, even the bass drum, but the guitar sound is weak and lower in the mix. On the 78s, Charlie Christian jumps out of the speaker, right into your room - a fantastic sound - but some instruments are lost. In this instance I prefer the 78s. I actually WILL be recording a CD in February with the Paris-based viol player, Jonathan Dunford - well, he asked me to - for Alpha Recordings. I wonder if I could persuade them to make it a 78?! Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player
Bravo, Danny, Bravo! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] The Online Lute Player
in their audience. Rob MacKillop [1]www.songoftherose.co.uk - free mp3 files and videos :-) PS I've just remembered...it is interesting to note the difference between my acoustic guitar audience and my Early Music audience: I have a 'donations' button on various pages. The Acoustic guitar pages (Scottish/Celtic stuff - some of it arrangements of Scottish lute pieces) has had enough hits to allow me to purchase an instrument. The Song of the Rose site - lute and baroque guitar - has raised only six pounds. Enough to buy two first strings. Don't worry, this is not a criticism, just a humorous observation :-) -- References 1. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on the baroque lute
Some Bach here: [1]http://luthlibrairie.free.fr/?Baroque:Allemande Rob 2008/11/10 Marcelo F lorenciano Alonso [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, lutelisters! Does anyone know a transcription, in tablature, of the lute works: BWV 995, 997, 998, 1006 and 1000 where it can be freely downloaded ? Thank you very much! Marcelo Alonso __ Novos endereAS:os, o Yahoo! que vocA-a conhece. [1]Crie um email novo com a sua cara @[3]ymail.com ou @[4]rocketmail.com. -- References 1. [5]http://br.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/mail/*http://br.new.mail.yah oo.com/addresses To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://luthlibrairie.free.fr/?Baroque:Allemande 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://ymail.com/ 4. http://rocketmail.com/ 5. http://br.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/mail/*http://br.new.mail.yahoo.com/addresses 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on the baroque lute
No, I was being genuine. The same goes for Trond, Danny, Roman, Arto, and all the others. They all have those magic moments where trying stops and being takes over. It might be one moment in a whole video, or it might indeed be the whole video. Same goes for my students, some of them complete beginners. It only takes two or three notes to make something worthwhile and memorable. Val has a genuine fan club, and deservedly so. He might not be Hoppy Smith, but who is? That doesn't mean you can't give something positive to the world. I've heard many virtuosos who have left me cold, but even they manage a moment or two here and there. What matters is that they are trying to be positive, sharing their love for the lute and its music. What have you shared today, Igor? I don't think Igor should be removed from this list. I'm sure Val wasn't hurt in any way. Igor might be an idiot, but this is not a moderated list, and just as well as there are a few of us who might not be able to contribute as we now do :-) Rob There are moments when Val's playing has moved me, and left me thinking, 'Why can't I play like that?' you must be a comedian or something ?! Igor Moronski -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on the baroque lute
Maybe Igor is Val's evil self? It is not unknown for critics to attack their own work under the guise of another name. Val, reveal yourself! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: thumb-index
I never thought of that before, Daniel. Interesting point... Rob Mackillop 2008/11/4 Daniel Winheld [EMAIL PROTECTED] Venegas de Henestrosa 'Libro de Cifra Nuevo' (Alcala de Henares, 1557) - Figueta castellano (Spanish figueta) = thumb index with thumb out Any possibility that Figueta Castellano means exactly that, and other Spanish areas might be Extranjera ? The nation state was a looser concept entity in those days; and with large parts of Italy under Spanish political control and Italian viola/vihuela players presumably using thumb under our desire to categorize and define things could make this a tougher call. - Figueta extranjera (foreign figueta) = thumb index with thumb in Any mention of the word before this? David - grateful -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: breaking-in a lute, not linear
I'm not so sure about the idea of beating a lute into submission...maybe we should concentrate more on breaking in the lute player? Each new instrument can teach us a lot, if we have ears to learn. I have to subtly change my RH technique with every instrument I play. Each instrument has its own voice, and I spend a lot of time uncovering it. Over time, each instrument develops its own character, sings better in some places than others. Forcing it to sing all over the neck would alter its character. And what's wrong with letting an instrument take its time to develop? Any well-made instrument should sound great as soon as it is made. The trick is to allow it to develop with you. You learn from each other. You take on each others voice. The way you pluck the strings, over time, is memorised by the wood. You start to become one with the instrument. This is why I can't happily play second-hand instruments...it takes a longer period of unlearning how the previous person played it before learning a new way, if it can at all. Funny story: I once had a good-quality acoustic guitar which I had 'a relationship' with over the years. We knew each others pluses and minuses. One day at a guitar festival, a famous player who played with Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Paul McCartney, etc, started playing my guitar. A small crowd gathered around to hear him. He made the guitar sound awful! It really hurt me. Clearly he could knock me for six with his abilities, but he brutalised my poor instrument. Finally, I couldn't take it any longer as I felt he was abusing me personally - I took the guitar off him in front of all these people. I said 'You are an amazing player, but you are hurting my guitar'. What audacity! Some obviously thought I was jealous of the guy's technique, but jealousy was far from my mind. Being good or bad as a player or musician is irrelevant. Having a close relationship with your instrument is the most important thing. Without it, technique and musicianship don't get a look in. So don't beat your lute into submission. Work together to find a unique voice. :-) Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger Canarios
Steve, Normally these pieces are played on the theorbo, so if it definitely was a baroque guitar being played, they must have been arrangements. I know Maxwell Davis's Farewell to Stromness, although I haven't heard it for a decade or so. I seem to recall it is a set of variations on a passacaglia. Doesn't sound to me particularly like any of the arpegiattas or canarios by Kapsberger, but I suppose there would be a similarity with his passacaglias. It might well fit the lute. The guitar version had to miss out much of the interesting dissonance of the piano original. Nice tune, though. Go ahead and make an attempt, then let us know the result. Rob 2008/10/28 Steve Ramey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Collected Wisdom, I just heard a fellow playing a baroque guitar solo on the radio. It was something called Arpegiatt and Canarios, by Kapsberger. The Canarios sounded rather similar to the modern piano piece, Farewell to Stromness, which we may know as a guitar piece. I've thought for a long time it might be interesting on the lute. Anybody know anything about this one? TIA, Steve -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Cantio Ruthenica LXVI
Very beautiful, Roman. So many beautiful tunes. What a rich cultural vein. Many thanks for all your efforts. Rob MacKillop 2008/10/28 Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2]http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/222a.mp3 [3]http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/222a.pdf [4]http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/222c.mp3 [5]http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/222c.pdf From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] [7]http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/222d.mp3 [8]http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/222d.pdf RT To get on or off this list see list information at [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/222a.mp3 3. http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/222a.pdf 4. http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/222c.mp3 5. http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/222c.pdf 6. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 7. http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/222d.mp3 8. http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/222d.pdf 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Cantio Ruthenica LXVI
Very beautiful, Roman. So many beautiful tunes. What a rich cultural vein. Many thanks for all your efforts. Rob MacKillop PS Sorry if you get this reply twice. My first attempt bounced back to me. 2008/10/27 Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2]http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/222d.mp3 [3]http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/222d.pdf RT To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/audio/222d.mp3 3. http://www.torban.org/ruthenicae/images/222d.pdf 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New videos
I'll look into it, Arto. It would certainly be useful. Rob 2008/10/21 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 10/21/2008, Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've added these excellent videos to the Lutes and Early Guitars video collection [1][3]http://www.vimeo.com/francesco which now has 227 videos. Very nice Rob (and Alfonso), great work! By the way, is there any possibility in Francesco-Vimeo for you to make some kind of indexes of the growing amount of videos? Listed by type of music, type of instrument, type of... etc.? Perhaps it is already in the Vimeo system? But anyhow, managing the mass of videos could perhaps be even easier? Who knows what there actually is to be found... All the best, Arto -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://www.vimeo.com/francesco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: from the court of Henry the VIII
'Lovely'? Rob 2008/10/13 Omer katzir [EMAIL PROTECTED] nothing more to say... just pieces from this lovely court, i have two songs written by the king (all i could find by myself right now), greensleeves not included. again, thank you all for your help :-) b.h.w. my tuner got stuck in the customs office, i think i'll tell them it's a little atomic bomb so i wont have to pay the tax... To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Concert mp3s and more
All good stuff, Ron Donna. I can vouch for Mignarda publications - clear, accurate, and very useful. You are doing great work, guys. Rob MacKillop 2008/10/9 Ron Andrico [EMAIL PROTECTED] To All: We have added to our web site some new mp3 clips from a recent concert of 16th century chansons. Also, we have posted a short descriptive essay on us and Mignarda Editions, for those who may be interested. [1][2]http://www.mignarda.com/news Best wishes, Ron Donna [2][3]www.mignarda.com __ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. [3]Learn Now -- References 1. [4]http://www.mignarda.com/news 2. [5]http://www.mignarda.com/ 3. [6]http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com- Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_getmore_09200 8 To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.mignarda.com/news 3. http://www.mignarda.com/ 4. http://www.mignarda.com/news 5. http://www.mignarda.com/ 6. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_getmore_092008 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: More of the delectable Gordon Ferries
Oh, ye of little faith...already on his website... Rob MacKillop, webmeister! 2008/9/23 Eleanor Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear All, More vids up on Gordon's YouTube page (soon to be on his website) ... this time a piece by Morlaye and a couple by Adrien Le Roy recorded on his Renaissance guitar. Well worth using the 'high quality' option on YouTube! Elly [2]www.youtube.com/bananamunga [3]www.gordonferries.com -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.youtube.com/bananamunga 3. http://www.gordonferries.com/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: On preparing to record
Hi Damian, I don't use the recorder as a practice aid, but I can definitely see the advantage of doing so. I record when I want an mp3 for my website. So, that being the case, I have probably got the performance pretty good but never note-perfect. I've never played a piece without mistakes, ever. But there are mistakes and there are mistakes. Some are noticeable, some are not. As long as the musical flow is there, I don't worry about tiny little errors which possibly only someone who is studying the piece would notice. I'm trying to capture a performance, not an exact reading. For mp3s, I usually play the piece two or three times and choose what I consider the best. I never do it more than three times. Videos are the same for me - two or three takes, or nothing at all. My recent 'archguitar' video was an exception - I clearly didn't have enough time to polish the pieces, expecially the corrente, which is a mess. But it served the purpose in introducing the instrument. Home recording is more accurate a reproduction of the way we actually play, as opposed to CDs, which are an idealised version of what we hear in our heads. There are only a small handful of players who play like they do on CDs - I just can't recall their names just now! So, my point is: record your practice sessions, but don't get too upset if you don't sound the way you do in your ideal scenario. Concentrate more on giving a performance than a reading. There will be mistakes, but it will also be more musical. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: pre-newbie question
Hi Mike, I don't play with fingernails, but many lute players do (and did) so come to your own decision about that. I think the majority of us play with flesh. Also, many Renaissance lutes had long string lengths, even longer than your classical guitar, so you do not need to play with a capo at all. However, many classical guitarists use a capo on position II or sometimes III as they think it gets them closer to a lute sound - which of course it doesn't ;-) Importantly, the string spacing for both hands is narrower on a lute. Try out a 12-string guitar in your local guitar shop. That will give a much better idea of what it is to play a lute, including octave basses. Rob 2008/9/18 Jose Luis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Approximately on the fret II are equal to a lute in G, with A = 415 Hz. Please, play it without fingernails! ;-) Best wishes, Jose Luis 2008/9/18, Mike Coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've been plinking around on a cheap guitar I have, trying to get a sense of what it would be like to play a lute. I'm guessing that the likeness would be increased by using a capo. Does this sound right? Any suggestions on where to place the capo for the most lute-like experience, in terms of the biomechanics of playing? Are lute strings easier to fret than (acoustic) guitar strings? Is the action lower on a lute? Thanks for any info, Mike To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] archguitar
What do you get when you cross a baroque guitar with an archlute? Here is a video: [1]http://tinyurl.com/5cgkdv The instrument will be back in Germany on Sunday, and on sale. Wolfgang Emmerich's website: [2]http://tinyurl.com/5dhbor I enjoyed playing it, but could have done with more time - the performances are FAR from perfect. Granata's music is not easy, but there is a project there for someone. Gallot's music looks interesting too, but in quite a different tuning. Questions over the stringing of the basses will doubtless continue until new evidence is found. Thanks to Wolfgang for bringing it to Scotland and leaving it with me for a few days whilst he has gone off on holiday to the west coast. Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://tinyurl.com/5cgkdv 2. http://tinyurl.com/5dhbor To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo songs
Thanks for that, Arthur. She just saw it in the catalogue for Scott's library at his home. Thought it worth mentioning. Cheers, Rob 2008/9/7 Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lute List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:51 AM Subject: [LUTE] Theorbo songs | My wife was doing some research on Walter Scott's library, and found | the following. Is it known otherwise? | | D_, (N_) Choice Songs and Ayres for one Voyce, to sing to a Theorbo | Lute or Bass Violin - 1673. | | I think the shelf number is PressPII, Abbotsford. | | Rob MacKillop Did your wife find a copy in the Walter Scott Museum? It is the first of five anthologies of songs and ayres collected and published by John Playford. This volume contains songs by Banister, Farmer, Forsall, Marsh et al. The nearest copy (was it perhaps from the Scott library?) is just down the street from you, Rob, in Glasgow at the Euing Library. There are other copies in the British Library, UCBerkeley and the Folger Shakespeare Library. And once again demonstrates the ephemeral nature of music. So much is lost over the years. The press run was probably 1000 copies. The Playford anthologies and many more early music editions are available in Early English Books Online (Pro-Quest, formerly UMI), if you have access to that database. =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Brahms' Academic Festival Overture in C minor, Op. 80, performed by the Orchestre National Bordeaux Aquitaine; Alain Lombard, conductor. To download, click on the CML link here [4]http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ My Web Page: Scores [5]http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ Other Matters: [6]http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ === -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ 5. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ 6. http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Books on the history of the lute?
The book by Andreas Schlegal is very nice indeed, and full of interesting information. Recommended. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: A question about Theorbos
2008/9/4 howard posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thee-oar-boe, with the initial th as in thick. Looks like an American accent, with that oar in there, Howie. I would say Thee - or - boe. But what do Scots know? [Don't answer that] Rob MacKillop -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo songs
My wife was doing some research on Walter Scott's library, and found the following. Is it known otherwise? D_, (N_) Choice Songs and Ayres for one Voyce, to sing to a Theorbo Lute or Bass Violin - 1673. I think the shelf number is PressPII, Abbotsford. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo songs
No takers on this? Any clue as to the identity of D_, N_? Rob My wife was doing some research on Walter Scott's library, and found the following. Is it known otherwise? D_, (N_) Choice Songs and Ayres for one Voyce, to sing to a Theorbo Lute or Bass Violin - 1673. I think the shelf number is PressPII, Abbotsford. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Video - De Visee Suite in Dm
I've made a video in 2 parts of the Suite in Dm for guitar by Robert de Visee. The first part on the Vimeo site is here: [1]http://www.vimeo.com/1579964 - with the 2nd part next to it. However, on some computers it might stick and jump a little - if so just let it play through as you go and make a cup of tea...it will work fine when you return and ask it to play again. Otherwise, here are two links for YouTube. The sound and visuals are not as good, but it should play OK. [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQK2clXfUpc [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbitKSZ_Gh0 Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://www.vimeo.com/1579964 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQK2clXfUpc 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbitKSZ_Gh0 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: a very basic question
So there is no confusion over which note is the 'melody' note and which is the ornament? Rob 2008/8/20 Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] So many players interpret the comma ornament as an appogiatura in a measured way. If this is correct, why didn't the composer just write a note? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute in Scotland (fwd)
That has been online for many years now. All secondary research, nothing primary. Useful, I imagine, for those without the original texts. I'd forgotten about it. Rob 2008/8/19 Mathias Roesel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just in case you haven't seen this yet: [2]http://www.standingstones.com/scotlute.html [3]http://www.standingstones.com/lutemss.html -- It is better to solve the right problem the wrong way than to solve the wrong problem the right way. -- Doug McIlroy -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.standingstones.com/scotlute.html 3. http://www.standingstones.com/lutemss.html 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: baroque guitar scam
The photo with the two instruments together comes from Stephen Barber and Sandi Harris's site, [1]www.lutesandguitars.co.uk - if I remember correctly. Rob 2008/8/12 Wayne Cripps [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi folks - You probably know that I run a lutes for sale web page. at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html . I just got the first for sale scam - at least it seems like a scam to me.. I am Brad Baker.I came accross your wanted advert and email address on [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html#wanted I would like to inform you that i have 5 course baroque guitar For Sale @ 1,400 Euro(Give Away Price)including shipping to your front door in Finland via Courier express delivery.The price of this lutes are more than 2,500 euro.You can't get it this price(1,400 euro)anywhere.Hurry up now,this is give away price.Buy one and get one free Nokia mobile phone. Maybe I am wrong... maybe many respected luthiers are now supplying free cell phones with their usual merchandise.. but I would suggest that you be careful with any internet transactions with strangers. You can see the instruments at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Baker/ There seem to be two different pairs of guitars and a fifth by itself. Maybe one of them is yours! Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/ 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/forsale.html#wanted 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Baker/ 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Minnesinger contest in Germany 2009
This came to my work address. Thought I'd pass it on to the lute list. == Hello, medieval musicians! I'm going to organize a Minnesinger Contest at Braunschweig/Germany in October 2009, I'm looking for a good British troubadour who's fit in the genre. He could be one of seven singers of the contest. The contest will be an event of the jubilee of the day when Otto IV got crowned at Braunschweig. He shall sing songs of the 12th or 13th century. The rules of the contest are: There are seven (male!) singers. Everyone sings two songs. Additional there are some songs all sing together. It's a real contest: The main prize is given to the singer who can reach the heart of the beautiful Maiden listening to the singers. Another prize is given by the public - everyone can vote! Since 2005 we made those contests all over Germany. It's always a good mood between the singers and musicians, a success and much fun. Do you know a good singer who's fit in the genre and who's got enough humour to participate on such an event. You can have a look at a tv feature of one of the contests in may 2008: [1]http://www. tvtouring. de/default. aspx?ID=3097showNews=228631newVideo=20080526_minnegesang_klingenberg. wmv If you can help, send me mp3-files or a link to a site with the music of the singer. And tell me something about the financial conditions. Thanx a lot, Lothar Jahn == Dr. Lothar Jahn Kultur, Management, Presse und PR Guderoder Weg 6 34369 Hofgeismar [2]www.minnesang.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05671-925355 -- References 1. http://www/ 2. http://www.minnesang.com/ 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Dowland updates
Sylvain Bergeron has contributed some mp3 files, including duets with Terry McKenna. I've also placed the solo mp3 files and videos on the same page. [1]www.johndowland.co.uk Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://www.johndowland.co.uk/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: NG basses
No. I started using them after using gimped basses with gut octaves, which had terrible intonation problems. Compared to them, the Aquila D strings are near perfect. Maybe you have been unlucky and the strings you have are not true, or maybe I've been lucky. When I mentioned on the Baroque Lute list that I was using them, some expressed surprise because they had intonation problems when using them. So, maybe there is a quality control issue... Rob 2008/7/29 Bruno Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Rob, Did you notice the difference in intonation of the octaves when you fret the note with the tip of the fingers and when you lie them flat on the fretboard? 2008/7/29 Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] I use Aquila D - no problems at all. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: NG basses
I'm not a fan of Pyramid basses, preferring Savarez or Kurschner instead. Aquila D strings are equal to the best. They sound too big and bright for the first month, but after that they settle down they get an almost gut-like quality while retaining their pitch. They work for me. You can hear them on this website: www.songoftherose.co.uk - Dowland pieces on the Renaissance lute page, and some pieces on the Baroque Lute page. Rob 2008/7/30 Daniel Winheld [EMAIL PROTECTED] Great timing- I was thinking of outfitting my new archlute with the Aquila D strings- Courses 14 - 6, and realized I had no personal knowledge of them or feedback from anyone else. Do you know how they compare to Savarez copper overspun and Pyramid for brightness sustain; not to mention that delightfully subjective quantity, beauty of tone? Thanks, Dan No. I started using them after using gimped basses with gut octaves, which had terrible intonation problems. Compared to them, the Aquila D strings are near perfect. I use Aquila D - no problems at all. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: NG basses
I use Aquila D - no problems at all. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: More on lute songs
2008/7/27 LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Martyn, I didn't know that one. I'll look it up. David Current issue of Early Music, I believe... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Barto videos
Permission now granted - many wonderful Weiss, Falkenhagen, Reusner videos added to the Vimeo site: http://www.vimeo.com/Francesco Cheers, Bobby. I think the lighting is great on these videos - the playing's not bad either! Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dowland's Lutes--the hidden piece
Just catching up with this topic. A 'new' piece by Dowland is clearly of great interest. Can you be more specific, David? I looked at the 14th piece (thanks for the link to the online facsimile, Valery!) - it seems to be for 8c. On my 69cms lute, the stretches are at times too much, even with my large hands. I'll leave it to someone else to do the World Premier! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Dowland's Lutes
Luthier, Martin Shepherd, has contributed a thought-provoking essay on Dowland's lutes (which also touches on string lengths, pitches, etc) to the John Dowland website. I'm sure Martin would be very happy to answer any questions you have after reading it. Please use this discussion group for your questions, so that we can all read the correspondence. Direct link: http://www.johndowland.co.uk/DowlandsLutes.htm Any navigation problems, let me know. The root address is: www.johndowland.co.uk Other contributions very welcome. A thousand thanks to Martin for his continued contributions to the site. A few other performers and researchers have promised material for later in the year. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Barto videos
Daniel Shoskes has added quite a few Barto/Weiss/Reusner videos to the Vimeo site: http://www.vimeo.com/Francesco - as well as his own performances of Lauffensteiner. All well worth a look and a listen. There are now 136 lute and early guitar videos on the site. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Barto videos
Unfortunately I was too premature in adding Bab Barto's videos to the collected lute and early guitars page of the Vimeo site. We are still awaiting permission from the performer. I hope he grants it, because these are outstanding videos. In the meantime, I have removed them by request. Apologies, where apologies are needed. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lord Willoughby's Welcome Home
Two of our excellent contributors to this discussion group, Martin Shepherd and Stuart McCoy, have recorded Lord Willoughby's Welcome Home for the Dowland site - a really excellent performance on two gut-strung lutes made by Martin. No.66a - http://www.johndowland.co.uk/mp3.htm I hope to record some pieces myself (on an 11c strung as a 10c - CF another discussion on this list) - but have two rather contrasting gigs coming up in a couple of weeks time. The first is with a jazz singer, with me on an archtop guitar, doing Gershwin, Kern, etc. Then two days later, my first full recital in almost 5 years, on lute, theorbo and baroque guitar. Wish me luck...feeling nervous already. Back to Dowland after that. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: videos
I have to do that, and I'll do it in a few minutes time. The more, the merrier. Rob 2008/7/11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Rob and all, I just put my Biber to vimeo. But how do I put/move it to your Francesco? Arto On 7/11/2008, Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm also happy to report that the Vimeo site for lute video performances now has 101 videos! http://www.vimeo.com/Francesco You don't need to log in to watch, and the sound and vision is better than You-know-who-Tube. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] John Dowland Site Updates
I'm happy to report that the www.johndowland.co.uk site is taking shape nicely. The intention is to have a home for the complete recordings of Dowland for free download, plus essays, videos, etc. Today I have added: 1. David Taylor's dissertation on the Dowland canon - should stimulate discussion! 2. David Taylor's video performance of the Frog Galliard 3. Martin Shepherd's essay of Ornamentation in Dowland's solo lute pieces - a very useful contribution which I hope all Dowland performers will read. It also contains two mp3 performances by Martin on a gut-strung 7c he made himself. Luthier, performer, academic - is there any end to the man's talents?! There have been other updates since the first announcement, and I have had promises from other performers of soundfiles and essays, so please have a look, add it to your 'Favourites' and return every now and then to check the Updates page. Please report any errors to me. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] videos
I'm also happy to report that the Vimeo site for lute video performances now has 101 videos! http://www.vimeo.com/Francesco You don't need to log in to watch, and the sound and vision is better than You-know-who-Tube. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: very low pitch
No. But my brain is another issue... Rob 2008/7/8 Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Do you folks using very low tension have a problem with string rattle? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Why is the neck on the archlute so long?
2008/6/29 Mathias R=F6sel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I once had to stand up with my arhlute on strap so as to get the sheets on the stand into proper order. When I sat down I realized great relief on the faces of the audience. Mathias Nothing to do with your zipper being undone? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: very low pitch
I'm 2008/6/29 Nigel Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I recently tuned my 72cm 13-course down to a tone below 415 (with strings intended for 392, so half a tone lower than that) and it really came to life. Could it be the lower tension strings (now around 3.5 on the top course, basses around 2.5, octaves 2.3or 2.4) or the fact that the pitch suits the lute better? Does anybody else play baroque lute at such a low pitch (and get away with it?) Pitch I know is a very debated subject, but if you are playing alone (usually but not always the case with baroque lute) surely you are less confined to what the Pyramid or Kurschner or Savarez string chart says you should be using? Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: very low pitch
Oops. I'm convinced that low tension is the way to go. I tune my 11c to 392. You can hear it here: www.songoftherose.co.uk - click on baroque lute. Rob 2008/6/29 Nigel Solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I recently tuned my 72cm 13-course down to a tone below 415 (with strings intended for 392, so half a tone lower than that) and it really came to life. Could it be the lower tension strings (now around 3.5 on the top course, basses around 2.5, octaves 2.3or 2.4) or the fact that the pitch suits the lute better? Does anybody else play baroque lute at such a low pitch (and get away with it?) Pitch I know is a very debated subject, but if you are playing alone (usually but not always the case with baroque lute) surely you are less confined to what the Pyramid or Kurschner or Savarez string chart says you should be using? Nigel To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Gypsies Lilt - video
That's the spirit, Kerry! Good luck.
Rob
2008/6/22 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Rob
once I get a digital camera I will be posting some videos. Yes, I am just
starting on the lute (I own a 'lute like' object at the moment) and will
take possession of a better instrument before the end of this year, and I am
always open to suggestions on technique by more experienced players. Audio
has always been my preference and I have a small studio in my home. My wife
plays the flute and we are working up some arrangements of music, including
some original tunes. I may post some audio files in the interim.
Kerry
Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks to Kerry and for all the other positive comments I've received.
Performance is everything, whether you are a beginner or a long-standing
professional. What I like about the technology we have now is the ability
to
see the lute being played. I love watching beginners perform, and hope that
more of you set aside your worries about making mistakes (all my videos
have
mistakes in them) and hopefully some more experienced players will offer
words of advice, if needed. Making mistakes is perfectly 'authentic', and
so are amateur performances among amateurs. I don't think I'm alone in
enjoying a beginner trying to play, more than a virtuoso running through
something without really being 'involved'. Of course, I get great pleasure
out of watching 'real' lute players like Nigel North, Paul O'Dette, etc.
I'll never ever be on their level, but I feel everyone has something to
share, no matter what level. So, get those cameras rolling!
Rob
2008/6/21 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Beautiful, Rob. All of this discussion of tuning and strings is all well
and good, (and interesting) but you cut to the chase with your sensitive
playing and show us what it's all about.
Kerry
Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Two pieces from the Rowallan ms, the weird Gypsies Lilt, and the
beautiful
I
Long For Thy Virginitie. Looks like I need my eighth fret tightened...
http://www.vimeo.com/1204178
Rob
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[LUTE] New Dowland site
Dear Collective Wisdom, I am in the process of creating a website devoted to John Dowland - http://www.johndowland.co.uk/ - It will be a collaborative site with academic essays, a projected collaborative recording of all his works (we can argue about what exactly his works are...), videos, scores, biography, etc, etc. It is hoped that list members will contribute new essays, as well as providing copy of old articles for which they are author and which are currently out of print. It is a non-commercial site, free from advertising, created collaboratively by players, academics and enthusiasts. Would-be contributors (essays, mp3 files, videos, biography) should contact Rob MacKillop, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Gypsies Lilt - video
Thanks to Kerry and for all the other positive comments I've received. Performance is everything, whether you are a beginner or a long-standing professional. What I like about the technology we have now is the ability to see the lute being played. I love watching beginners perform, and hope that more of you set aside your worries about making mistakes (all my videos have mistakes in them) and hopefully some more experienced players will offer words of advice, if needed. Making mistakes is perfectly 'authentic', and so are amateur performances among amateurs. I don't think I'm alone in enjoying a beginner trying to play, more than a virtuoso running through something without really being 'involved'. Of course, I get great pleasure out of watching 'real' lute players like Nigel North, Paul O'Dette, etc. I'll never ever be on their level, but I feel everyone has something to share, no matter what level. So, get those cameras rolling! Rob 2008/6/21 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Beautiful, Rob. All of this discussion of tuning and strings is all well and good, (and interesting) but you cut to the chase with your sensitive playing and show us what it's all about. Kerry Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two pieces from the Rowallan ms, the weird Gypsies Lilt, and the beautiful I Long For Thy Virginitie. Looks like I need my eighth fret tightened... http://www.vimeo.com/1204178 Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: New piece of the month for June
Fuenllana has a few moments where the third finger has to cover two courses, four strings. I could get it right about 90 per cent of the time by using one finger, as the courses on my vihuela were very close. But it is a case of swings and roundabouts. Sometimes we want the courses close, sometimes we want them further apart. Are we ever truly happy?! One luthier told me that thumb-in players preferred wider spacing at the bridge than thumb-out players, and this led to wider spacing at the nut, and when these thumb-in players commissioned instruments set up this way, they made some of the repertoire more difficult for themselves. Fuenllana was a thumb-out player... Rob 2008/6/20 Stewart McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear David, It may be that your finger tip really is too narrow, but there might be some mileage in turning the angle of your hand, as violinists do, so that there is a wider surface area to hold down both courses. Pointing the left-hand fingers toward the bridge, is something we try to prevent pupils doing, but this bad habit can have its uses. I have a small vihuela discante, with a fairly tight spacing, and I often find it useful to cover two courses with a single un-barred finger. My fingertips are podgy enough for that, but then I struggle to stop a single course while playing the two open courses either side. Sometimes I use my little finger, when really I should use one of the other fingers, but my little finger is thinner than the others, and causes less damage snagging up adjacent strings. Holding down two courses with one unflattened finger can present problems. At first one should aim to be satisfied with getting just two strings to ring - the lower of the upper course, and the upper of the lower course - and simply dampen the outside strings of each pair. Eventually, with time and practice, one finds one is covering all four strings, and they all ring on. I think it is important not to try too hard, but be content at first with just an approximation. If you don't think about it too much, your fingers will find a way to do it on their own. Another possible use of two courses stopped by a single finger is in this common example: _1c___3d___4f___1c___ _2d|_ _2d|_ __a|_ ___|_ ___|_ I wouldn't always finger those notes that way, but I have it up my sleeve for when it seems the best option. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: David Tayler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 June 2008 22:50 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: New piece of the month for June Gee what an annoying chord that is. I have seen people play all four strings, that is two courses, with the tip of one finger. My finger is not wide enough. I accept this as more or less unchangeable, unless I go to a really narrow spacing. Thanks for the lovely edition. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: New piece of the month for June
Really beautiful, Martin. A fine piece and very fine playing. Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing when used positvely and creatively? And what a wonderful resource your website is already, with more to come. Keep up the good work! Rob McKillop 2008/6/20 Martin Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear All, I have finally caught up - more or less. The new piece of the month is up and running at: www.luteshop.co.uk/month/pieceofthemonth.htm A wonderfully obscure but rather splendid piece, I think. Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Gypsies Lilt - video
Two pieces from the Rowallan ms, the weird Gypsies Lilt, and the beautiful I Long For Thy Virginitie. Looks like I need my eighth fret tightened... http://www.vimeo.com/1204178 Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Late 19th-century film of man playing lute
Very rare footage: http://www.vimeo.com/1204502 Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Meantone
If they were at all common why don't we see them in iconography? There is indeed a painting which clearly shows tastini - but I can't remember where I saw it! Sorry... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Video - Port Jean Lindsay
I borrowed a friends camera - better quality than mine. It looked great on the camera viewer, but quite dark when uploaded. You might notice that I have strung my 11c temporarily as a 10c in viel ton... Here is the link: *http://tinyurl.com/5wrssk* Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: new 11c lute Pictures
It looks very beautiful, Anthony. Take your time with it. You have to grow into each other. That takes time. Subtle instruments live longer in your heart. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New Baroque lute/Meantone
Three cheers! Good luck with your new lute, Anthony. One day we will hear it. Until then, how about some pictures on the lute network site? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Web metronome
But does it beat at 415 pitch? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] John Donne
Dear Wisdom, What lute and voice settings are there of poems by John Donne (a long-time favourite poet of mine)? I'm also interested in settings for viols and voice or voices. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: John Donne
Dowland? Which song? Together with Marlow, Donne and Dowland shared the same female patron, Lucy, Countess of Bedford. I suppose a concert programme of the three has been done many times? Rob 2008/6/16 howard posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rob MacKillop wrote: What lute and voice settings are there of poems by John Donne (a long-time favourite poet of mine)? I'm also interested in settings for viols and voice or voices. Ferrabosco set The Expiration as So, so, leave off this last lamenting kisse (the seventh song in his book). I just did a web search and found this irritatingly tantalizing feature about Donne's poetry in songs: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/was- john-donne-the-cole-porter-of-his-time-491049.html It will tell you: By searching music manuscripts in the British Library and the Bodleian in Oxford, Holmes found 10 settings of Donne's verse made by some of the leading English composers of his day, including John Dowland, Orlando Gibbons, Alfonso Ferrabosco and William Corkine. But gets no more specific than that. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: CD Von edler Art in Cleveland
I was looking for images of the 'vertical' keyboard, but couldn't see any. Nice sound files, though. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] FoMRHI
Forwarding this from the Early Music Fora - although it is from Chris Goodwin of the Lute Society, I haven't seen it here... Dear FoMRHI member You will be pleased to hear that after 6 years of silence, the Fellowship of Makers and Researchers of Historical Instruments, and its Quarterly publication, are being revived. We already have enough material for at least one, maybe two issues of the Quarterly. The first should appear in July. We are sure you will have had many interesting ideas, discoveries and thoughts about historical instruments in the interim, so please put them down on paper, and send them in for inclusion in forthcoming issues of FoMRHI Quarterly! You will remember that you must send in contributions - Communications or 'Comms' as they are called -EXACTLY as you wish them to appear - in 12 point type, on A4 paper with a 25mm / 1 inch border all round, or to put it another way, if you are using non-European paper sizes, then the text area must be 160 x 246 mm (or at least no wider or longer than this). You can send contributions EITHER on paper, OR as a Word-compatible or PDF attachment. NOTE OUR NEW ADDRESS: FoMRHI c/o Chris Goodwin Southside Cottage Brook Hill Albury Guildford GU5 9DJ United Kingdom and the email address for contributions sent as attachments is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note the following: 1. Please tell everyone you know who might be interested that FoMRHI is being revived, and encourage them to send in contributions to the quarterly. 2. As we have unspent subscription monies in the bank, existing members will be credited with a year's subscription, for 2008. 3. Non-members will be given a year's free subscription if they send in a Communication for the Quarterly. 4. If you have changed address since 2000, please let us know; if you do not receive a paper version of this call for papers in the next two weeks that means we probably don't have your correct current postal address. 5. If you ever sent in a paper [in the last 6 years] for the Quarterly, and it never appeared, please re-send it now, to the new address. 6. There are plans to scan back issues of the Quarterly and make them downloadable from a website, to be set up; in the meantime you can obtain back issues for the princely sum of Pounds 3 per issue, including postage; send a cheque payable to FoMRHI, at the above address, or write with your credit card details. 7. If your interests have changed, and you don't now want to be a member of FoMRHI, please let us know, to save our postage costs. I look forward to hearing from you. best wishes Chris Goodwin -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano
Thanks Gary. The claim is that he played 'viol' - plucked or bowed was not specified. See earlier comment by Antonio. Rob 2008/6/5 gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I seem to recall reading that Francesco played viola da gamba as well as lute. Gary - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Antonio Corona [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano Thanks Antonio. So, allow me to simplify things, at least for my own benefit, and forgive me if I over simplify. I'm just thinking out loud... The vihuela de mano was created in Valencia and found its way to Naples where it became popular, more popular than the lute. Some Italian makers started making their own version which they called the viola da mano. Eventually there emerged two apparently distinct types, Spanish and Italian. The Italian version seems to have kept the classic viol shape with deep indents on the sides, while the Spanish version smoothed out the sides, as with the Raimondi drawing, or the figure of eight, almost classical guitar shape of Milan's book. Both types were used in Italy, either imported or copied, and the Spanish types were referred to as Spanish lutes or lyras. Isabella d'Este asks for a Spanish type, and, importantly, insists on it being made from ebony. Although there seems to have been a distinction in the physical aspects of the Italian and Spanish viola/vihuela, the repertoire could be played on either instrument. The Borgias, being originally Spanish, were important in spreading the popularity of the vihuela/viola to Rome and the northern states. Francesco, therefore, did not need to live in the South to come across the viola. His 1536 book mentions the viola before the lute: *Intavolatura de Viola o vero Lauto*. It was printed in Naples where the viola was most popular. This raises the possibility that Francesco did NOT play the viola, but its name was given chief prominence in order to boost sales in its area of publication...? However, it is certainly possible that he DID play the viola alongside the lute early in his career, but dropped the viola when it declined in popularity in favour of the lute. Two Neapolitan viola da mano players, Dentice and Severino, were active in both Italy and Spain, and their works could be added to the canon of vihuela literature. OK? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1481 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:31 PM --
[LUTE] string length and Francesco
I don't have a 6c and have never read Francesco's works on such an instrument, but I would like to know from the collective experience here at what length of string does it become very difficult to play his works? The lute in the portrait of him playing (if it is indeed him) seems to have quite a long string length, and many of the 6c instruments on, for instance, the Barber/Harris website are for very long string lengths, 72 cms or upper 60s. I vaguely recall Gordon Gregory playing me some Francesco on a long-fingerboard lute, and it sounded beautiful. But at what string length does it become just too awkward? Fuenllana, for instance, really requires a short vihuela, 55 to 60 cms. Not so with Francesco? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Novelties
Thanks Jerry. I was using you complete Sanz edition this very afternoon with a classical guitar student. An excellent edition, in my opinion. Rob 2008/6/5 Jerry Willard [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks Rob that really helps because it's in the states (easier for me) I really enjoyed your B guitar playing where you're demonstrating strums. it really swings!! Jerry http://www.jerrywillard.com -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jerry Willard Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Novelties The CDRom Martyn mentions, you can find it here, Jerry: http://www.lacg.net/facsimiles_page.htm A bit more expensive than Martyn remembers (more like 50 quid, Martyn) but well worth it. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: look what the cat brought in
I couldn't get any of the sound files to work. Pity. Rob 2008/6/5 LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.sabbatum.com/ :-) David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: string length and Francesco
Well, lads, I hope you can make a recording sometime of Francesco plumbing the depths. I'm sure it would sound splendid. The duets would be amazing. We await... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano
Thanks Antonio. So, allow me to simplify things, at least for my own benefit, and forgive me if I over simplify. I'm just thinking out loud... The vihuela de mano was created in Valencia and found its way to Naples where it became popular, more popular than the lute. Some Italian makers started making their own version which they called the viola da mano. Eventually there emerged two apparently distinct types, Spanish and Italian. The Italian version seems to have kept the classic viol shape with deep indents on the sides, while the Spanish version smoothed out the sides, as with the Raimondi drawing, or the figure of eight, almost classical guitar shape of Milan's book. Both types were used in Italy, either imported or copied, and the Spanish types were referred to as Spanish lutes or lyras. Isabella d'Este asks for a Spanish type, and, importantly, insists on it being made from ebony. Although there seems to have been a distinction in the physical aspects of the Italian and Spanish viola/vihuela, the repertoire could be played on either instrument. The Borgias, being originally Spanish, were important in spreading the popularity of the vihuela/viola to Rome and the northern states. Francesco, therefore, did not need to live in the South to come across the viola. His 1536 book mentions the viola before the lute: *Intavolatura de Viola o vero Lauto*. It was printed in Naples where the viola was most popular. This raises the possibility that Francesco did NOT play the viola, but its name was given chief prominence in order to boost sales in its area of publication...? However, it is certainly possible that he DID play the viola alongside the lute early in his career, but dropped the viola when it declined in popularity in favour of the lute. Two Neapolitan viola da mano players, Dentice and Severino, were active in both Italy and Spain, and their works could be added to the canon of vihuela literature. OK? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano
Dear Rob, Not quite ... The vihuela was not created in Valencia, that is just Ian Woodfield's interpretation based on insufficient iconographucal evidence which ha spread and somehow found acceptance. There was a strong vihuela-viola movement in the Aragonese territories which included the viceroyalty of Naples, but it did not displace the lute there. Incidentally, the tag da mano-de mano is very much the same both in Valencia and Naples, not so in Castile and other areas. Regarding types, iconographic sources exhibit quite a large degree of variation, both in Castile and Aragon, while some of them present besides certain characteristics we tend to associate with the viola da mano, so considering only two distinct types is an oversimplification. Early sources, both Spanish and Italian also show the deep indents, so there is no reason to associate this feature specifically with Italian instruments. The repertory could be played with either instrument (if we must insist on considering them as separate members of the same family), but it could also be played, and indeed was played on the lute. Regarding Francesco, we are on speculative ground, although I am tempted to believe he did play the plucked viola at some point, for which exercise the only thing he needed was an instrument which was readily available. We do know that Francesco played an instrument callled viola, as Cosimo Bartoli attests, but at present there is no way to establish whether this instrument was plucked or bowed. A nice bit of information, though, is that Francesco was known to improvise in Rome upon the Conde Claros tenor, the very same used by several vihuelists as a ground for their diferencias. Finally, we have no evidence that Dentice played the vihuela, but Severino is mentioned by Scipione Cerreto's _Della practica musica_ among the sonatori eccelenti del liuto, della cita di Napoli, che oggi non vivono, together with his father Vincenello and his brother Pompeo, to whic Cerreto adds that all three were known as della viola. Incidntally, Julio was buried in Madrid and was remembered later by Fancisco Pacheco, who remarked that he did play the vihuela (el ta=F1ido de la viguela de Iulio severino, exelente musico de ocho ordenes). My own impression is that we can add not only Severino's work to the vihuela repertoire, but also a substantial part of the Italian lute repertoire from the first half of the sixteenth century, as witnessed by the 1536 della Fortuna prints for viola a mano ovvero liuto. Best wishes, Antonio - Original Message From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Antonio Corona [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, 4 June, 2008 3:38:00 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Francesco and the viola da mano Thanks Antonio. So, allow me to simplify things, at least for my own benefit, and forgive me if I over simplify. I'm just thinking out loud... The vihuela de mano was created in Valencia and found its way to Naples where it became popular, more popular than the lute. Some Italian makers started making their own version which they called the viola da mano. Eventually there emerged two apparently distinct types, Spanish and Italian. The Italian version seems to have kept the classic viol shape with deep indents on the sides, while the Spanish version smoothed out the sides, as with the Raimondi drawing, or the figure of eight, almost classical guitar shape of Milan's book. Both types were used in Italy, either imported or copied, and the Spanish types were referred to as Spanish lutes or lyras. Isabella d'Este asks for a Spanish type, and, importantly, insists on it being made from ebony. Although there seems to have been a distinction in the physical aspects of the Italian and Spanish viola/vihuela, the repertoire could be played on either instrument. The Borgias, being originally Spanish, were important in spreading the popularity of the vihuela/viola to Rome and the northern states. Francesco, therefore, did not need to live in the South to come across the viola. His 1536 book mentions the viola before the lute: *Intavolatura de Viola o vero Lauto*. It was printed in Naples where the viola was most popular. This raises the possibility that Francesco did NOT play the viola, but its name was given chief prominence in order to boost sales in its area of publication...? However, it is certainly possible that he DID play the viola alongside the lute early in his career, but dropped the viola when it declined in popularity in favour of the lute. Two Neapolitan viola da mano players, Dentice and Severino, were active in both Italy and Spain, and their works could be added to the canon of vihuela literature. OK? Rob -- Sent from Yahoo! Mailhttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/isp/control/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=52418/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html. A Smarter Email. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http
[LUTE] Francesco and the viola da mano
I understand the introduction of the vihuela into Spanish Neapolitan provinces helped the spread of the Italian viola da mano, but where does Francesco da Milano come in? Did he have a connection with the south? Or did the instrument spread to the north as well? How popular was the viola da mano? Any other publications for it? And can anyone flesh out the story of one of the d'Este family ordering a 'Spanish viola da mano' but having to settle for an Italian one instead? I can't remember the facts. I might copy this to the vihuela group as there are some people there who are not subscribers here. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano
Thanks, Denys. That sounds an ideal starting place. I've just read this from Chris Wilson's review of the 1997 International Symposium on Francesco: Dinko Fabris had some intriguing new possibilities concerning Francesco's early years. He had uncovered in church records in Barletta, near Bari on the southeast coast of Italy, that a young cleric was working there for five years from 1512. He signed himself Francisco da Milano, the same spelling that is used for Francesco on the title cage of the anonymous publication 'Novamente stanpata', that had already caused so much interest at this symposium. The archbishop of the area came from Pavia but spent much of his time in Rome, only visiting Barletta twice a year. Dinko Fabris suggested that he may have brought Francesco with him from Pavia and that he traveled with his retinue. So he may have had connections with Testagrossa and it may well have been through his association with the archbishop that he obtained his position at the Vatican. So there is the possibility that he was in the south. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano
John Griffiths' book on Neapolitan Lute Music looks very informative - you can read some of it on Google Books: *http://tinyurl.com/5cjr6v* These links to Google Books are not always successful. Looks like the works of Dentice and Severino could be added to the viola/vihuela repertoire. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: These new network sites
Very nicely said, Jean-Pierre! Rob On 02/06/2008, Jean-Marie Poirier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Peter, I aa just coming back from Norwich where I collected a lute from David Van Edward and he told me thet you lived nearby ! Next time I go there I would be very glad to meet you. After my lightning visit to Norwich, I also dropped an email to Ian Harwood about his forthcoming publication on the English Consort. David had given me his email and he has just replied to me with very kind words. So I am glad to seize this opportunity, after your email arrived on this list, to express my deep gratitude for the contribution of people like you, Ian or David and others as well to make the so-called revival of the interest in Early Music possible. I am very happy to know part of this network in spite of all the frustrations you express ! Take care, as our American friends say, and all the best, Jean-Marie Poirier (from France) === 02-06-2008 11:31:02 == on 22/5/08 8:14 pm, Rob MacKillop at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what do we think of the new 'social network' sites? There is one for lute, one for cittern and one for early guitars/vihuelas. Some have written to me saying they are worried that this list might stop running, but I don't agree. The questions on the Forum of the network sites are generally different in kind, less 'academic', one might say, more social, and some people have contributed there who have not done so here. So I have no fear that the lists will disappear. What the network sites are good at is sharing soundfiles, pictures and scores, and people seem to contact each other more readily when they can see a photograph of the person they are writing to. The Music Player is interesting. Each member has his/her own. You can upload your own soundfiles and have it playing when people visit your My Page. But you can also import soundfiles from other people's pages. I even managed to put my Music Player on my own website. I've been wondering how to do this for some time. Instead of playing one file at a time, you can hear (should you want to, of course!) the whole lot with just one click - then minimise the page while you work on other things. I imagine more players will use this feature in time. See www.songoftherose.co.uk - scroll down the main page. Lots of interesting videos beginning to appear, imported from You Tube - nice to have them all in one place. I've really enjoyed looking at all the images of lutes that have appeared on the photos page - many I haven't seen before, and comments are welcome, leading to discussion. So, I think these networks have their place and are most welcome. But I am happy to still read and enquire on this list. Hopefully both can live in harmony together. I'm sure they can. Discuss... Rob MacKillop Hi Rob, I am painfully aware that the new technology can supply access to information and experiences that were not available even 12 months ago. My problem is that as an aging one-time pioneer of the EM movement I am finding it difficult to keep up. Out in the country with an iMac G3 running OS 9.2 where do I go to learn more? And perhaps wouldn't I be more useful buying and learning to use a metal-turning lathe to produce those machine-heads that you and other guittar-players are going to need shortly? Except that I may miss something important in the meantime... Yours frustratedly, Peter To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://poirierjm.free.fr 02-06-2008 --
[LUTE] Vimeo Lutes and Early Guitars Video Channel
With more people appreciating the audio and visual quality of the Vimeo site over YouTube, I've created a Vimeo Channel - one page bringing together all the Vimeo videos with lutes and early guitars. I urge all those of us who have videos to upload them to Vimeo, then inform me and I'll link them to the Lutes and Early Guitars Channel, which is: http://www.vimeo.com/Francesco Visitors welcome. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Vimeo Lutes and Early Guitars Video Channel
With more people appreciating the audio and visual quality of the Vimeo site over YouTube, I've created a Vimeo Channel - one page bringing together all the Vimeo videos with lutes and early guitars. I urge all those of us who have videos to upload them to Vimeo, then inform me and I'll link them to the Lutes and Early Guitars Channel, which is: http://www.vimeo.com/Francesco Visitors welcome. Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Double headed 12c
I used to have a 12c. You can see it on David Van Edwards' site. I bought it second hand, so had no choice in model, woods, measurements etc. My understanding is that the larger instruments work better. I didn't have it long enough to get into the specific repertoire for it, and to be honest, the repertoire is not as great as that for the 11c or 13c, and it felt like neither one. But it needed someone to specialise in it to bring out the riches. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] strumming
Somone asked me about my strumming techniques so I've added a video on strumming the baroque guitar here: http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos It's more MacKillop than Corbetta, but you might get something out of it. Not sure about doing it on the lute, though! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: strumming
Not so far... Rob 2008/5/29 LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sounds like you were having fun, Rob. Do you ever knock a bar out of place, or seriously damage the top? I have some rather deep scratches (woodchips coming out of the top) and recently needed a loose bar fixed. There are players I know who protect their tops with something coming close to what a flamenco guitar has: tapas. ;-) So, all baroque guitar players out there: beware! David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: strumming
A helpful note from the maker of the guitar: ''As for the proposed idea of soundboard bars getting loose, there are some precautionary measures against this in your guitar - bar end supports. So with the kind of strumming / hitting that you do the bars should be fine, unless you hit really hard.'' I should add that I don't actually hit hard at all - it just sounds that way. And no nails to do damage. The guitar is over two years old, and not a scratch on it. Rob 2008/5/29 LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sounds like you were having fun, Rob. Do you ever knock a bar out of place, or seriously damage the top? I have some rather deep scratches (woodchips coming out of the top) and recently needed a loose bar fixed. There are players I know who protect their tops with something coming close to what a flamenco guitar has: tapas. ;-) So, all baroque guitar players out there: beware! David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: strumming
Wear your scars with pride! Rob 2008/5/29 LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well done! Then, I'll blame the dry weather for the loose bar and old age for the scarred top. My guitar is 20 years old by now. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] new videos
Six short videos of pieces from Wemyss, Straloch and Panmure manuscripts: http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new videos
I agree, it is a beautiful piece. My wife's favourite. Rob 2008/5/27 Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The Courante is just lovely. RT - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Baroque-Lute baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] new videos Six short videos of pieces from Wemyss, Straloch and Panmure manuscripts: http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] more videos
Six short videos of pieces from Wemyss, Straloch and Panmure manuscripts: http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
