[LUTE] Re: Peter Croton's email address
Here it goes: petercro...@gmail.com Guilherme Barroso Lute and Basso Continuo Professor at [1]Escola Superior de Música de Lisboa ESML [2]www.guilherme-barroso.com | [3]@the_lute_channel Tel: +41 767488925 Em 27/09/2020, 08:33 +0200, Rainer escreveu: Dear lute netters, does anybody know Peter Croton's email address? Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://www.esml.ipl.pt/ 2. https://www.guilherme-barroso.com/ 3. https://www.youtube.com/user/Guialaude
[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations
Thanks a lot Martin. Incredible these left hand fingerings that he proposes. Em qua., 29 de abr. de 2020 à s 14:29, Martin Shepherd <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> escreveu: Yes, there are several chords which require using a finger (any finger) to cover two or more courses, and Waissel even gives us fingerings which involve using the second finger to hold to top two courses, in a context where we would use a barré. See my blog: [2]https://luteshop.co.uk/all-fingers-and-thumbs/ Martin On 28/04/2020 23:15, Guilherme Barroso wrote: > Yes, indeed. > For me, it makes more and more sense to view these intabulations as a > way to show the whole vocal piece and not something to be performed > exactly as written. > About the BarrÃÃà ©s with any other finger then the first. Has anyone > seen a historical source discuss this? I don't recall seeing one. > > Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 Ãà s 23:04, <[1][3]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> > escreveu: > >This is really quite an extreme example! But maybe with a different >technique it would be possible e.g. to play the first chord? >Sometimes, >I have the impression that they used also BarrÃÃà ©s with the second or >third finger, which would (theoretically) make it possible to play >the >first chord. Just today I found an similar chord in a piece by >Hurel, >which would need a barrÃÃà © with the second or fourth finger. I'll >hopefully get my new renaissance lute this or next week (7courses, >85cm), I'm very curious to try it! :-)and then still we have to >consider a world without 1. printed full scores and 2. recordings. >So, >in order to study a piece of music, you would have to perform - or >read >it - just by yourself. Maybe this was really kind of "full score" >for >them - you can use it to study the music and counterpoint, and if >you >actually want to perfor it you still can decide to omit some notes. >Am 28.04.2020 21:25 schrieb Guilherme Barroso: >> Dear Yuval, >> >> Thanks a lot for your answer. >> >> I have a 7c course 60cm lute and it does not get much easier at >some >> places. Of course with your lute, even worse. >> >> But there are some parts that even with a small lute, it is just >not >> possible. >> >> I attach in this email an example from Barbetta's publication from >> 1582. In the marked passage, already the first chord is not >possible >> to play (this chord appears often in this publication and also in >> Terzi's books), the next two bars are not better. even if you find >a >> way to do it by some kind of arpeggio, how make it sound musical? >> >> Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 Ãà s 20:50, <[2][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> >> escreveu: >> >>> Dear Guilherme, >>> >>> it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would >be >>> nice >>> to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago, >>> and >>> he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read >all >>> kind >>> of tablature fluently - quite crazy! >>> To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my >personal >>> experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical >>> experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when >Martina >>> and >>> me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on >>> traverso - >>> so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which >worked >>> quite >>> well - but also
[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations
I agree. Indeed the Molinaro pieces usually "fit" the lute well although very demanding. But fantasias are usually simpler then intabulations, technically speaking. Which also corroborates the idea that intabulations are a compositional guide. If we compare fantasias and intabulations already from F. da Milano or J. Paladin, the difference is very clear. They try to keep the vocal original in the intabulation. As we advance into the end of the 16th century, fantasias also get increasingly difficult with the counterpoint complexity, number of voices, etc even looking more and more to vocal pieces. Em qua., 29 de abr. de 2020 à s 02:21, Tristan von Neumann <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> escreveu: While I complained earlier that Molinaro's pieces are sometimes unplayable, many of the pieces fit the lute very well, and don't seem to be just transcriptions from the keyboard. (For example Fantasies No. 3 or 5) There is a possibility to finger some passages with a sliding barré - something that needs to be planned and does not occur naturally by just intabulating the keyboard score. André Nieuwlaat suggests that some of the pieces could actually be intabulations by John Dowland. Anyway, the polyphony in above mentioned pieces sounds extremely beautiful on the lute, and are surprisingly playable in relation to the effect. On 29.04.20 01:46, Ron Andrico wrote: > Yes. First and foremost, tablature was created to serve as a short > score of polyphonic music and printed or manuscript tablatures of > polyphonic music were meant to serve as a reservoir of information. > While the ideal is to play every note, I firmly believe that lutenists > always made adjustments, as you have described, for practical purposes. > > The idea of 16th-century lute tablatures being compared to a form such > as the preludes by Villa-Lobos, in terms of notes that must be > conquered through disciplined technique, is an absurdity imposed upon > historical music by 20th century guitarists who took up the lute. The > point of 16th-century tablatures was to gain an understanding of the > musical intent in the score and the greatest technical challenge is to > realize the polyphony to the best of one's ability. > > I have read V. Galilei's Fronimo forward and backwards, and his remarks > about not making concessions in intabulating polyphony for the sake of > fingering are an admonition to avoid altering the content of the piece > to reduce fingering difficulties because a tablature score is meant to > represent the music. Overcome the difficulties or not, but don't > change the polyphony. > > Molinaro was an organist and his tablatures show what is possible but > are certainly influenced by his conscious or unconscious reference to > keyboard practice. Terzi was a freak if he could play all those notes > in his intabulations while observing the tactus. Not bloody likely. > He's probably laughing at us from another world. > > If there is one thing I have absorbed over thirty years of lute-playing > and creating countless intabulations of sixteenth century polyphony, > the score is a reservoir of information. It was always meant to be so. > > RA > __ > > From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Guilherme Barroso > <[4]guilhermesbarr...@gmail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 9:15 PM > To: [5]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de <[6]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> > Cc: LuteList <[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; > [8]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > <[9]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations > > Yes, indeed. > For me, it makes more and more sense to view these intabulations as > a > way to show the whole vocal piece and not something to be performed > exactly as written. > About the BarrÃÃà ©s with any other finger then the first. Has anyone > seen a historical source discuss this? I don't recall
[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations
Yes, indeed. For me, it makes more and more sense to view these intabulations as a way to show the whole vocal piece and not something to be performed exactly as written. About the Barrés with any other finger then the first. Has anyone seen a historical source discuss this? I don't recall seeing one. Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 à s 23:04, <[1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> escreveu: This is really quite an extreme example! But maybe with a different technique it would be possible e.g. to play the first chord? Sometimes, I have the impression that they used also Barrés with the second or third finger, which would (theoretically) make it possible to play the first chord. Just today I found an similar chord in a piece by Hurel, which would need a barré with the second or fourth finger. I'll hopefully get my new renaissance lute this or next week (7courses, 85cm), I'm very curious to try it! :-) and then still we have to consider a world without 1. printed full scores and 2. recordings. So, in order to study a piece of music, you would have to perform - or read it - just by yourself. Maybe this was really kind of "full score" for them - you can use it to study the music and counterpoint, and if you actually want to perfor it you still can decide to omit some notes. Am 28.04.2020 21:25 schrieb Guilherme Barroso: > Dear Yuval, > > Thanks a lot for your answer. > > I have a 7c course 60cm lute and it does not get much easier at some > places. Of course with your lute, even worse. > > But there are some parts that even with a small lute, it is just not > possible. > > I attach in this email an example from Barbetta's publication from > 1582. In the marked passage, already the first chord is not possible > to play (this chord appears often in this publication and also in > Terzi's books), the next two bars are not better. even if you find a > way to do it by some kind of arpeggio, how make it sound musical? > > Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 à s 20:50, <[2]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> > escreveu: > >> Dear Guilherme, >> >> it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would be >> nice >> to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago, >> and >> he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read all >> kind >> of tablature fluently - quite crazy! >> To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my personal >> experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical >> experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when Martina >> and >> me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on >> traverso - >> so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which worked >> quite >> well - but also with violone, and for this I had to play all the >> voices. >> Since at this time I had only a fairly big lute (10 courses, 67cm), >> I >> decided to step away from perfectly playing all voicing with a >> perfect >> voiceleading, and instead making an arrangement which kept the >> madrigals >> recognizable, but at the same time quitting some tones of the inner >> >> voices and making the intabulations/arrangements more idiomatic for >> the >> lute, because above all I though it was more important to get a >> good >> phrasing and to make good music instead of hurting my hand. If >> you're >> interested in the choices I made, you can find some of the pieces >> we >> recorded on youtube. >> Regarding the amount of instructions about making owns >> intabulations, >> Philippe's argument seems not at all unlikely for me. But at the >> same >> time I'm asking myself about the differences in taste then and now >> (maybe for them it was most important to render the madrigal >> exactly? At >> the end, they lived in a sphere where only polyphonic music >> existed, so >> maybe they would have heard the mistakes made by making the >> intabulations more suitable for the lute?), and also about which >> role >> the size of the lute plays. Did you try to play the "unplayable" >> parts >> on a smaller lute? You could just use an capo in you
[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations
Sure. Here it is: [1]https://we.tl/t-cKblbeN4wz Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 às 22:40, Jurgen Frenz <[2]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> escreveu: most unfortunately this forum's service provided doesn't allow photo attachments. Can you upload the example elsewhere and post the link to it here? That would be great. Thanks Jurgen âââââââ Original Message âââââââ On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 9:25 PM, Guilherme Barroso <[3]guilhermesbarr...@gmail.com> wrote: > --0c0ca105a45ecdc0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Dear Yuval, > > Thanks a lot for your answer. > > I have a 7c course 60cm lute and it does not get much easier at some > places. Of course with your lute, even worse. > > But there are some parts that even with a small lute, it is just not > possible. > > I attach in this email an example from Barbetta's publication from 1582. In > the marked passage, already the first chord is not possible to play (this > chord appears often in this publication and also in Terzi's books), the > next two bars are not better. even if you find a way to do it by some kind > of arpeggio, how make it sound musical? > > Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 às 20:50, [4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de escreveu: > > > Dear Guilherme, > > it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would be nice > > to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago, and > > he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read all kind > > of tablature fluently - quite crazy! > > To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my personal > > experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical > > experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when Martina and > > me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on traverso - > > so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which worked quite > > well - but also with violone, and for this I had to play all the voices. > > Since at this time I had only a fairly big lute (10 courses, 67cm), I > > decided to step away from perfectly playing all voicing with a perfect > > voiceleading, and instead making an arrangement which kept the madrigals > > recognizable, but at the same time quitting some tones of the inner > > voices and making the intabulations/arrangements more idiomatic for the > > lute, because above all I though it was more important to get a good > > phrasing and to make good music instead of hurting my hand. If you're > > interested in the choices I made, you can find some of the pieces we > > recorded on youtube. > > Regarding the amount of instructions about making owns intabulations, > > Philippe's argument seems not at all unlikely for me. But at the same > > time I'm asking myself about the differences in taste then and now > > (maybe for them it was most important to render the madrigal exactly? At > > the end, they lived in a sphere where only polyphonic music existed, so > > maybe they would have heard the mistakes made by making the > > intabulations more suitable for the lute?), and also about which role > > the size of the lute plays. Did you try to play the "unplayable" parts > > on a smaller lute? You could just use an capo in your second or third > > fret, just to try how it feels with a small instrument. > > All the best, > > Yuval > > Am 28.04.2020 15:12 schrieb Guilherme Barroso: > > > > > Dear Lute collective, > > > For some time i've been thinking about some aspects about the > > > intabulation of vocal pieces and i would like to know your ideas. > > > When we look to the gigantic repertoire of vocal intabulations to > > > the > > > lute we encounter several pieces that are incredibly difficult to > > > play. > > > Intabulations done by Molinaro, Terzi, Barbetta, for example, some > > > times present passages that are not only very demanding technically > > > but also with impossible chord positions. Canguilhem, in his book > > > about Galilei's
[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations
--0c0ca105a45ecdc0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Yuval, Thanks a lot for your answer. I have a 7c course 60cm lute and it does not get much easier at some places. Of course with your lute, even worse. But there are some parts that even with a small lute, it is just not possible. I attach in this email an example from Barbetta's publication from 1582. In the marked passage, already the first chord is not possible to play (this chord appears often in this publication and also in Terzi's books), the next two bars are not better. even if you find a way to do it by some kind of arpeggio, how make it sound musical? Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 Ã s 20:50, escreveu: > Dear Guilherme, > > it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would be nice > to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago, and > he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read all kind > of tablature fluently - quite crazy! > To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my personal > experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical > experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when Martina and > me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on traverso - > so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which worked quite > well - but also with violone, and for this I had to play all the voices. > Since at this time I had only a fairly big lute (10 courses, 67cm), I > decided to step away from perfectly playing all voicing with a perfect > voiceleading, and instead making an arrangement which kept the madrigals > recognizable, but at the same time quitting some tones of the inner > voices and making the intabulations/arrangements more idiomatic for the > lute, because above all I though it was more important to get a good > phrasing and to make good music instead of hurting my hand. If you're > interested in the choices I made, you can find some of the pieces we > recorded on youtube. > Regarding the amount of instructions about making owns intabulations, > Philippe's argument seems not at all unlikely for me. But at the same > time I'm asking myself about the differences in taste then and now > (maybe for them it was most important to render the madrigal exactly? At > the end, they lived in a sphere where only polyphonic music existed, so > maybe they would have heard the mistakes made by making the > intabulations more suitable for the lute?), and also about which role > the size of the lute plays. Did you try to play the "unplayable" parts > on a smaller lute? You could just use an capo in your second or third > fret, just to try how it feels with a small instrument. > > All the best, > Yuval > > > > > Am 28.04.2020 15:12 schrieb Guilherme Barroso: > > Dear Lute collective, > >For some time i've been thinking about some aspects about the > >intabulation of vocal pieces and i would like to know your ideas. > >When we look to the gigantic repertoire of vocal intabulations to > > the > >lute we encounter several pieces that are incredibly difficult to > > play. > >Intabulations done by Molinaro, Terzi, Barbetta, for example, some > >times present passages that are not only very demanding technically > >but also with impossible chord positions. Canguilhem, in his book > >about Galilei's Fronimo treatise, says that the main goal of > > Galilei's > >intabulations was to study the counterpoint and composition, not to > > be > >played. He even compares Galilei's intabulation of Vestiva i Colli > > for > >solo lute (where the madrigal is complete with all the voices) and > >another version for lute and bass solo (where the lute part is > >extremely simplified with supression of voices). The lute and voice > >version for sure was intended to be performed while the other might > > be > >intended to be studied. The act of intabulating would be the same > > as > >making a score for study purposes. > >There are a lot of intabulations in the repertoire that are more > >concerned in maintaining all the voices of the original work then > >making some concessions to adapt it better to the instrument. > >Of course, we are dealing with a huge repertoire from several > > composers > >and several places with specific differences. Le Roy, for example, > > is > >more willing to make changes to adapt to the instrument, he says > > that > >the "playability and beauty should come first". > >But even very complex intabulations were clea
[LUTE] About vocal intabulations
Dear Lute collective, For some time i've been thinking about some aspects about the intabulation of vocal pieces and i would like to know your ideas. When we look to the gigantic repertoire of vocal intabulations to the lute we encounter several pieces that are incredibly difficult to play. Intabulations done by Molinaro, Terzi, Barbetta, for example, some times present passages that are not only very demanding technically but also with impossible chord positions. Canguilhem, in his book about Galilei's Fronimo treatise, says that the main goal of Galilei's intabulations was to study the counterpoint and composition, not to be played. He even compares Galilei's intabulation of Vestiva i Colli for solo lute (where the madrigal is complete with all the voices) and another version for lute and bass solo (where the lute part is extremely simplified with supression of voices). The lute and voice version for sure was intended to be performed while the other might be intended to be studied. The act of intabulating would be the same as making a score for study purposes. There are a lot of intabulations in the repertoire that are more concerned in maintaining all the voices of the original work then making some concessions to adapt it better to the instrument. Of course, we are dealing with a huge repertoire from several composers and several places with specific differences. Le Roy, for example, is more willing to make changes to adapt to the instrument, he says that the "playability and beauty should come first". But even very complex intabulations were clearly meant to be played, like the Terzi intabulations of vocal pieces that present a "Contrapunto" from another lute. Terzi intabulations clearly prefer to maintain the original vocal piece in the intabulation in spite of the diffculty to play. What do you think about this? When you play this repertoire, do you try to keep all notes? Do you omit certain notes to make it more playful? Do you make decision based on the musical flow? I am very curious to hear your ideas. All the best, -- Guilherme Barroso [1]www.guilherme-barroso.com -- References 1. http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki Minamino
Dears,
Recently i have acquired the Thesis. Thanks a lot for all your help.
All the best,
Guilherme Barroso
Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 Ã s 07:49, T.Kakinami
<[1]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp> escreveu:
I tried to contact Hiroyuki Minamino, but I couldn't find where he
is now.
Then there might be some ways to request the library.
for example,
[2]https://webvoyage.carli.illinois.edu/nby/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB
=local
1=all+of+these=OCLC+Number+%28OCLC%29=20=oc?18969226
Kakinami
-Original Message-
From: [3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
Arthur Ness
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 2:43 AM
To: [5]guilhermesbarr...@gmail.com; [6]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp
Cc: [7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki
Minamino
Possibly you mean Hiro's doctoral dissertation at the U. of
Chicago.
He worked with Howard Mayer Brown (!!!):
"Sixteenth-Century Lute Treatises with Emphasis on Process and
Techniques of
Intabulation."
Available through ProQuest (?) Check AMS Doctoral Dissertations
in
Musicology for info. --AJN
-Original Message-
From: Guilherme Barroso <[8]guilhermesbarr...@gmail.com>
To: T.Kakinami <[9]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp>
Cc: LuteList <[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tue, Apr 21, 2020 6:23 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki
Minamino
Dear Toshiaki
Thanks for your reply.
There are very interesting articles there but i could not find
the
thesis i am looking for in that link.
Em ter., 21 de abr. de 2020 C s 12:04, T.Kakinami
<[1][1][11]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp> escreveu:
You mean ?
[2][2][12]https://escholarship.org/search?q=Minamino%2C%20Hiroyuki%E
3%80%80
Sixteenth%2
0
Toshiaki Kakinami
-Original Message-
From: [3][3][13]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[4][4][14]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of
Guilherme
Barroso
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:01 PM
To: LuteList
Subject: [LUTE] Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki
Minamino
Dear collective,
Would anyone of you have a pdf from the thesis
Sixteenth
century lute
treatises by Hiroyuki Minamino? Or maybe have an idea
where i
could
find it?
Thanks a lot and stay healthy!
--
Guilherme dos Santos Barroso
[1][5][15]www.guilherme-barroso.com
--
References
1. [6][5][16]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
To get on or off this list see list information at
[7][6][17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
Guilherme dos Santos Barroso
Hagenbachstrasse 36
CH-4052 Basel
Schweiz
Tel: +41 767488925
[8][18]www.guilherme-barroso.com
--
References
1. mailto:[7][19]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp
2. [8][20]https://escholarship.org/search?q=Minamino,
HiroyukiC#Sixteenth%2
3. mailto:[9][21]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:[10][22]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
5. [11][23]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
6. [12][24]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
7.
[13][25]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. [14][26]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
--
References
1. mailto:[27]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp
2.
[28]https://escholarship.org/search?q=Minamino%2C%20Hiroyuki%E3%80%8
0
3. mailto:[29]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:[30]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
5. [31]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
6. [32]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
7. mailto:[33]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp
8. [34]https://escholarship.org/search?q=Minamino,
9. mailto:[35]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
10. mailto:[36]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
11. [37]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
12. [38]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
13. [39]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. [40]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
--
Guilherme dos Santos Barroso
[41]www.guilherme-barroso.com
--
References
1. mailto:tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp
2.
https://webvoyage.carli.i
[LUTE] Re: Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki Minamino
Dear Toshiaki Thanks for your reply. There are very interesting articles there but i could not find the thesis i am looking for in that link. Em ter., 21 de abr. de 2020 Ã s 12:04, T.Kakinami <[1]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp> escreveu: You mean ? [2]https://escholarship.org/search?q=Minamino%2C%20Hiroyuki%E3%80%80 Sixteenth%2 0 Toshiaki Kakinami -Original Message- From: [3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Guilherme Barroso Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:01 PM To: LuteList Subject: [LUTE] Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki Minamino Dear collective, Would anyone of you have a pdf from the thesis Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki Minamino? Or maybe have an idea where i could find it? Thanks a lot and stay healthy! -- Guilherme dos Santos Barroso [1][5]www.guilherme-barroso.com -- References 1. [6]http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Guilherme dos Santos Barroso Hagenbachstrasse 36 CH-4052 Basel Schweiz Tel: +41 767488925 [8]www.guilherme-barroso.com -- References 1. mailto:tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp 2. https://escholarship.org/search?q=Minamino, HiroyukiãSixteenth%2 3. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/ 6. http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/ 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
[LUTE] Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki Minamino
Dear collective, Would anyone of you have a pdf from the thesis Sixteenth century lute treatises by Hiroyuki Minamino? Or maybe have an idea where i could find it? Thanks a lot and stay healthy! -- Guilherme dos Santos Barroso [1]www.guilherme-barroso.com -- References 1. http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Portuguese Lute Music anyone?
Hello all, I don't know any source of Portuguese lute music but there is at least one of baroque guitar. It is called "O livro do conde de Redondo" and the facsimile was edited by Lusitana Musica. All the best, ---- Guilherme Barroso [1]www.guilherme-barroso.com On 5 Jan 2020, at 18:47, Roman Turovsky <[2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: All of Jordi Savall's CDs have him as De M. RT On 1/5/2020 12:24 PM, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: The title page of the Libro de motes ⦠has Luys Milan too I have not seen El Cortesano for quite a while ⦠All best Joachim -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Portuguese Lute Music anyone? Datum: 2020-01-05T10:13:43+0100 Von: "Albert Reyerman" <[3]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de> An: "Tristan von Neumann" <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>, "[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Wrong, Tristan. The only source we have with his name given is EL MAESTRO. Here his name is prited Luys Milan (sic) No apostroph. Regards Albert TREE EDITION Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany [7]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de www.tree-edition.com 0451 899 78 48 --- Fine Art Paintings Anke Reyerman www.anke-reyerman.de Am 04.01.2020 um 20:02 schrieb Tristan von Neumann: May I just add something outrageous: This guy is literally called "Milán". How sure are we that he's not of Italian origin? On 04.01.20 19:59, Antonio Corona wrote: Dear Ron, Thank you for your kind words. Again, I think we should be wary of speculations where the known facts points in another direction. While there is indeed a possibility of Italian influence in Milán, especially considering that the viceroy of Valencia was Ferdinand of Aragón, Duke of Calabria, I still believe that putting together Milán and Verdelot is pushing the evidence too far merely on the basis of a vague possibility (which I cannot share -the dates of their publications suggest otherwise); on the other hand, we have no way of knowing how much influence Castiglione's book might have had on Milán: at least there is none to be found in his own Cortesano. In my view all the arguments in favour of an Italian direct musical influence on Milán remain purely speculative. I cannot give credence to them. On the other hand, resorting to the contents of Valderrábano and Fuenllana is, again, misleading. Both vihuelists belong to a later phase and school (I call it Castilian as opposed to the earlier Valencian) and should not be used as a basis for comparison. The mere fact that both included a large amount of intabulations as opposed to the contents of El Maestro -where there are none-, not to mention the altogether different style of their fantasias, as well as the fact that both Valderrábano and Fuenllana were professional musicians at the service of nobility, whereas Milán was an amateur (probably a member of the lesser nobility as suggested by the "Don"), their "nationality": Castilian versus Valencian, and even the type of tablature they used should put us on our guard against a direct comparison and therefore considering them on the same category. I �m afraid that I shall need more solid evidence to convince me that Milan used the music of Verdelot (or any of the other great composers intabulated by later vihuelists) as a model or otherwise for his own music. As it stands now, I must stress it again, such a suggestion is firmly rooted on speculation and nothing more. Best wishes, Antonio On Saturday, 4 January 2020, 09:19:07 GMT-6, Ron Andrico wrote: Thanks, Antonio. I must say it is heartwarming to know you are such a champion for the music of Milan. I appreciate his role as a pioneer in Spanish instrumental music and as an advocate of the viheula and its significance in courtly life. But I don't think it is much of a speculation to say that he was influenced by Italian examples, including Verdelot's madrigals and Castiglione's much earlier example of a guide to courtly custom. I think if you'll examine the large amount of intabulated polyphony found in the books of Fuenllana (1552) and Valderrabano (1547), both of which contain several intabulations of music by Verdelot, as well as Arcadelt, Compere, Gombert, Josquin, Mouton, Sermisy and Willaert, you must admit there i
[LUTE] Re: Capirola & buzzing like bray pins?
Hi Theodore, That's a big question. But we still have very little evidence about this. Bor Zuljan has been experimenting with the âbray lute". Here is an example: [1]https://youtu.be/w2lQbXhITLY All the best, Guilherme Barroso Guilherme Barroso www.guilherme-barroso.com Em 2/12/2019, 00:32 +0100, theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu escreveu: In reading about the use of bray pins on medieval and renaissance harps, I read the following: "The beautifully decorated Capirola lute book, written in Venice 1515-1520, states that a player should 'make it so that the first fret almost touches the strings, and so on to the end, because as the frets are nearer to the string, the strings sound like a harp, and the lute appears better.' In other words, lute strings should buzz against the frets." Does the Capirola book actually say this? And if so, might this be a recommendation for buzzing lute strings? Before amplification, brays on harps and snares on drums and such obviously were used to make the instrument 'cut through' ambient noise in order to be heard. Any evidence that lutes were used this way? Thoughts? Cheers, trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://youtu.be/w2lQbXhITLY
[LUTE] Pratum Musicum - Emmanuel Adriaenssen
Dear Lute collective, Does any of you know if there is a translation of the Novum Pratum Musicum from Emmanuel Adriaenssen? Thanks in advance! Guilherme Barroso -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [OT] Tonality in the Baroque
I don't know what was the context in Fuchs book. But a lot of times when these terms appear in later sources is to identify a specific note in the scale. For instance, Dlasolre can only be the d below the first line in the G clef. Because according to the solmization thats is the only place in the Gamut where the D can be sung as la (hexachord molum) as sol (hexachord durum) and as re (hexachord naturalis). So they use this term as a pitch localization. It is common even in 19th century sources when these terms appear to designate the tuning of transpositor instruments like trumpet in Csolfaut, etc... I hope it helped. All the best, Guilherme Em 10/01/2019, 01:46 +0100, Mark Probert escreveu: RalfD wrote: ??? Whut? That system was widely used well into the 19th (!sic) century. It's just that a lot of researches tend to skip the early chapters of contemporary manuals. Just have a look at some of the most important instruction manuals and how much (expensive!) space they dedicate top proper solmization teaching. Ha! Thank you for the explanation and the pointer. IMSLP coughed up a copy of Morley's "A Plain and Easy Introduction to Practical Music" (modern spelling :-) ) where he says: Master: But have you learned nothing at all in Music before? Student: Nothing. Therefore I pray begin at the very beginning and teach me as though I were a child. M: I will do so: and therefore behold, here is the Scale of Music which we term the Gam. ... Then must you get it perfectly without book, to say it forwards and backwards. Secondly, You must learn to know wherein every Key stands, that is in rule or in space. And thirdly, How many clefs and how many notes every Key contains. Huh. Lots of fun stuff here! Thanks again. .. m. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: From a Beginner...
Hello, I recommend the book of Andrea Damiani - Method for renaissance lute from Ut Orpheus edizioni Cheers, Guilherme Barroso Em 17/06/2013, às 04:05, Steve Acklin sack...@comcast.net escreveu: Greetings, In my retirement, I’m teaching myself renaissance lute. It’s something I’ve loved all my life. I am a bassoonist for over 40 years, so have an idea of what would be of help now, and that is lots of elementary music, including fingering, for practice. The Lundgren book has been helpful; I just need more practice material than it provides. I had a TOUGH curriculum of bassoon training, but the Poulton book leaves me in the dust. Are the only collections of easy, progressive music, with fingerings available from European early music stores? I’ve downloaded some pieces, but I need fingerings for the left hand. (Here in the Atlanta area I haven’t had luck finding a private teacher.) Thanks for any help. I’m excited about this. Steve Acklin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: mudarra Tres libros de musica en cifras para vihuela
Si viesse e me levasse in portuguese is: Se viesse e me levasse The same thing. Only the Si becomes Se. And more, that word when pronounced nowadays in almost every place that speaks Portuguese sounds like Si. So, it is the same. Guilherme Barroso Em 14/03/2013, às 14:48, Ariel Abramovich g_abramo...@hotmail.com escreveu: Monica: Si viesse e me levasse is not in Spanish, and certainly is closer to Galego and to Portuguese. That's the one I was talking about, and I of course know about Milán's pieces. Ariel. The Portugese villancicos are in Milan's El Maestro which is dedicated to the Portuguese King John. Monica - Original Message - From: Ariel Abramovich g_abramo...@hotmail.com To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:42 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: mudarra Tres libros de musica en cifras para vihuela Martin is right: Latin, Italian, Castilian are the languages. If I remember correctly, there's even a villancico in some sort of Portuguese (or galaic-portuguese) with Spanish spelling. Many of the poems can be found in non musical editions, such as those by Petrarca, Manrique or Garcilaso. If some specific poem is needed, I'd be happy to send a link or a copy. I'm afraid I can't do that with all of them. With some patience, most of the texts can be found easily. Unfortunately, there's of course work to be done in order to fit the words in a reasonable, logical yet artistic way. In some of the pieces, as it happens with English lute songs, only the first strophe will fit the music, and for adding more texts re writing will be needed. Some of the verses are missing and literary sources are a must in order to fill the gap. Some people (even Spanish speaking people) unaware if this perform and record this works The writing is pretty much in the style of Guerrero and Vasquez, with a strong Italian madrigalistic influence. The voices are very independent, and there's a good balance between good counterpoint and idiomatic writing. I'm preparing a recording of most of the songs, which I hope I can offer next year. King and Heringman's version is nice, and there're others: Hoppy and Montserrat, Jorge Fresno and Rosemarie Meister, some of the songs also by Juan C Rivera and Carlos Mena, etc. Best, A To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
