[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music -

2017-11-14 Thread Alain Veylit 
I just finished (the first draft of) a transcription of a sonata in the 
Bologna Dall Casa manuscript which seems to me quite extraordinary. I 
don't know if it is bad music, but it is different - with three very 
distinct sections in strikingly different styles. If you are curious, 
please check out: http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/dalla-casa - it is 
number 19 (the last one currently). For a quick and dirty audio 
rendition see the audio tool at the bottom (ogg format only, so not 
available with Windows explorer, but Firefox and Chrome should be able 
to handle it).


Did Philip Glass make a quick incursion in the middle of the 18th century?











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[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-13 Thread Anthony Hart 
   A lute walks into a bar "Is there another bar under the bridge?"
   A lute walks into a bar "Have I been unbarred?"
   A lute walks into a bar "Just put it on my tab."
   Anthony

   2017-11-14 1:28 GMT+01:00 Stewart McCoy <[1]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>:

 A lute walks into a bar: "Tonight's programme will be entertaining -
 we've got to get through 300 bars, and there aren't many rests."
 A lute walks into a bar: "Oops! Sorry, I didn't see you. I thought I
 was in the Thibault manuscript."
 A lute walks into a bar: "I'd like six courses, and there must be a
 rose on the table."
 A lute walks into a bar: "I came just in case."
 A lute walks into a bar: "Do you have spare ribs?"
 A lute walks into a bar: "My mate Dowland fancies a Barley wine."
 A lute walks into a bar in Holborne: "Where's the loo?"
 A lute walks into a bar in Germany: "What's up? Are you short of
 staff?"
 Stewart McCoy
 -Original Message----- From: Ron Andrico
 Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 2:09 PM
 To: lutelist Net
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
A lute walks into a bar: "I'd like to order a small Frei,
 please."
A lute walks into a bar: "I'm under a lot of tension, I just
 stopped
   by to unwind."
A lute walks into a bar: "Is this what may be called a loose
 bar?"
A lute walks into a bar: "Don't fret, I'm here to tie one on."
A lute walks into a bar: "I'd better stop, I think my table is
   bulging."
A lute walks into a bar: "I'll have a double course."
 
 __
   From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 on behalf
   of howard posner <[4]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:26 AM
   To: Tristan von Neumann
   Cc: lutelist Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
   On Nov 12, 2017, at 7:45 PM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[5]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
   >
   >
   > Am 11.11.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Alain Veylit:
   > Anyone with a good ending for: A lute walks into a bar
   >> ...?
   >
   > How about those:
   >
   > A lute walks into a bar: "I'll have a large beer please. No mug,
 I
   have a bowl."
   >
   > A lute walks into a bar. The barkeeper: "Why all those frets?"
   >
   > A lute walks into a bar. The barkeeper: "You have the guts to
 show
   your face in here?"
   >
   > A lute walks into a bar. "Can I have a beer?" - "No way, you
 already
   have a loose nut."
   >
   > I apologize if they're not good, I'm German. :)
   Without question, the best lute-walks-into-a-bar jokes Iââ¬â¢ve
 ever read.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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 email
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 and
   your name will be added to ...
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   2. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --
   __
   Anthony Hart  MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
   Musicologist  and  Independent  Researcher
   Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
   Mob: +356 9944 9552.
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   [12]www.monsignor-reggio.com
   NEW  Publications:  EDIZIONE  ANTONINO  REGGIO
   -  [13]www.edizionear.com
   for information and special offer

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References

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   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  11. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
  12. http://www.monsignor-reggio.com/
  13. http://www.edizionear.com/

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-13 Thread Sean Smith 
I’m glad Frank Spinacino doesn’t work that bar. He’d’ve mangled that Martini.


> On Nov 13, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Stewart McCoy <lu...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> A lute walks into a bar: "Tonight's programme will be entertaining - we've 
> got to get through 300 bars, and there aren't many rests."
> A lute walks into a bar: "Oops! Sorry, I didn't see you. I thought I was in 
> the Thibault manuscript."
> A lute walks into a bar: "I'd like six courses, and there must be a rose on 
> the table."
> A lute walks into a bar: "I came just in case."
> A lute walks into a bar: "Do you have spare ribs?"
> A lute walks into a bar: "My mate Dowland fancies a Barley wine."
> A lute walks into a bar in Holborne: "Where's the loo?"
> A lute walks into a bar in Germany: "What's up? Are you short of staff?"
> 
> Stewart McCoy
> 
> -Original Message- From: Ron Andrico
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 2:09 PM
> To: lutelist Net
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> 
>   A lute walks into a bar: "I'd like to order a small Frei, please."
>   A lute walks into a bar: "I'm under a lot of tension, I just stopped
>  by to unwind."
>   A lute walks into a bar: "Is this what may be called a loose bar?"
>   A lute walks into a bar: "Don't fret, I'm here to tie one on."
>   A lute walks into a bar: "I'd better stop, I think my table is
>  bulging."
>   A lute walks into a bar: "I'll have a double course."
>__________
> 
>  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
>  of howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
>  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:26 AM
>  To: Tristan von Neumann
>  Cc: lutelist Net
>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> 
>  On Nov 12, 2017, at 7:45 PM, Tristan von Neumann
>  <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > Am 11.11.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Alain Veylit:
>  > Anyone with a good ending for: A lute walks into a bar
>  >> ...?
>  >
>  > How about those:
>  >
>  > A lute walks into a bar: "I'll have a large beer please. No mug, I
>  have a bowl."
>  >
>  > A lute walks into a bar. The barkeeper: "Why all those frets?"
>  >
>  > A lute walks into a bar. The barkeeper: "You have the guts to show
>  your face in here?"
>  >
>  > A lute walks into a bar. "Can I have a beer?" - "No way, you already
>  have a loose nut."
>  >
>  > I apologize if they're not good, I'm German. :)
>  Without question, the best lute-walks-into-a-bar jokes I’ve ever read.
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  [2]Lute Mail list technical information
>  www.cs.dartmouth.edu
>  How do I get on the lute mail list? To get on the mail list, send email
>  with a Subject: of "subscribe" to lute-requ...@cs.dartmouth.edu and
>  your name will be added to ...
> 
>  --
> 
> References
> 
>  1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 
>

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread Tristan von Neumann 


Am 11.11.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Alain Veylit:
 Anyone with a good ending for: A lute walks into a bar

...?


How about those:

A lute walks into a bar: "I'll have a large beer please. No mug, I have 
a bowl."


A lute walks into a bar. The barkeeper: "Why all those frets?"

A lute walks into a bar. The barkeeper: "You have the guts to show your 
face in here?"


A lute walks into a bar. "Can I have a beer?" - "No way, you already 
have a loose nut."


I apologize if they're not good, I'm German. :)

Cheers,
T*






On 11/10/2017 04:35 PM, howard posner wrote:
On Nov 8, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Alain Veylit  
wrote:


PS: bad French joke: Beethoven was so deaf that all his life he 
thought he was a painter...

Is this a pun in French?



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[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread howard posner 

> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:41 AM, Christopher Wilke  
> wrote:
> 
> Just curious - How do we know the exact cause of Beethoven's deafness
>   today?

We don't

> I assume doctors of the time didn't possess enough knowledge of
>   the causes of deafness to make a diagnosis.

Nobody did, but there is some raw data in the form of observations by the 
doctor who did an autopsy (this is from the web, and I don’t know who 
translated it into English):

"The external ear was large and irregularly formed, the scaphold fossa but more 
especially the concha was very spacious and half as large again as usual…the 
external auditory canal was covered with shining scales… The Eustachian tube 
was much thickened, its mucous lining swollen and somewhat contratced about the 
osseous portion of the tube… The facial nerves were of unusual thickness, the 
auditory nerves, on the contrary, were shiveled and destitute… The convolutions 
of the brain were full of water and remarkably white; they appeared very much 
deeper, wider and more numerous than ordinary."



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[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread Markus Lutz 
In the film they also inform about the most recent diagnosis of 
Beethoven's illness, that is drawn from the contemporary autopsie of 
Beethoven's ear (after minute 58, around 62 you find a table with the 
diagnosis).
After Wolfram Klingler: (as already written by A. John Mardinly) an 
"chronical inner ear deafness with permanent ringing in the ears", most 
probable a "cochlear otosclerosis".


Best regards
Markus

Am 12.11.2017 um 14:41 schrieb Christopher Wilke:

Just curious - How do we know the exact cause of Beethoven's deafness
today? I assume doctors of the time didn't possess enough knowledge of
the causes of deafness to make a diagnosis.

Chris
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Saturday, November 11, 2017, 7:01 PM, John Mardinly
 wrote:

Beethoven's deafness was caused by "inner ear" problems, sometimes
called labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical
problems, such as damage to the eardrum or the small bones of the inner
ear. As such, it is unlikely that the bone conduction would have been
any use to him.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

> On Nov 10, 2017, at 5:27 PM, howard posner
<[2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

>

>

>> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C. <[3]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>>  According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was
the

>>  inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,

>>  discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite
down on

>>  it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations
in

>>  his jaw bone.

>

> Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like
this one on the Time Magazine website:

>

> Interest in Beethoven's hearing loss has long captivated his fans,

> many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf

> composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even

> after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME

> once described it, "by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it
against

> the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds."

>

> I've never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like
this.  Has anyone else?

>

>

>

> To get on or off this list see list information at

>
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.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=XAd
5dnGEKxTCDxtWP81_OkSN7GFzU2vnXU4QhxuI7oU=Btd8TqMsKFhk-qbydx4-AdWQqPVK
tB-etle0bCxH5gY=

--

References

1. https://yho.com/footer0
2. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
3. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
4. 
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--

Markus Lutz
Schulstraße 11

88422 Bad Buchau

Tel  0 75 82 / 92 62 89
Fax  0 75 82 / 92 62 90
Mail mar...@gmlutz.de

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread Lex van Sante 
Oops! I didn’t read all previous posts. My bad!
> Op 12 nov. 2017, om 15:56 heeft Lex van Sante  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> Thomas Mace was deaf in his later years. He pressed his front teeth against 
> the edge of the soundboard and thus was able to hear what he was playing. He 
> describes this in his Musicks’ Monument in 1676.
>> Op 12 nov. 2017, om 15:33 heeft G. C.  het volgende 
>> geschreven:
>> 
>>  Very interesting discourse about Beethoven's deafness, several more
>>  available (in german) on YT. Thanks for the link Markus. Although it
>>  doesn't specify the nature of the hearing aid connected to the piano
>>  which was used, I assume that all hasn't yet been said in this matter.
>>  G.
>> 
>>  On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Markus Lutz <[1]mar...@gmlutz.de>
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  I'm not sure that this is a myth.
>>  There is a youtube video in German by the medical society of Mainz
>>  about Beethoven's deafness and his relation to Johann Nepomuk Mälzel
>>  (the inventor of the metronome).
>>  Beethoven used his ear trumpets and Mälzel also constructed a
>>  mechanism that was set on the piano and transported the sound directly
>>  to the ear (around 46m).
>>  [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Lj8Qy2Ilk=2965s
>>  Best regards
>>  Markus
>>  Am 11.11.2017 um 23:31 schrieb G. C.:
>> 
>>A myth then apparently. Interesting though, that:
>>The "phenomenon" of bone conduction is generally credited as
>>being
>>discovered in the 1500s (though some say it can be traced back
>>to
>>around 2AD). A physician, mathematician, philosopher and
>>all-around
>>brilliant fella' by the name of Girolamo Cardano noticed that it
>>was
>>possible to hear through a rod or spear when placed between the
>>teeth.
>>He detailed his findings in his controversial publication De
>>Subtilitate, but the information hadn't really been applied to
>>anything, let alone to help the deaf or hearing-impaired, until
>>later.
>>G.
>>On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 7:44 PM, John Mardinly
>><[1][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>>Beethoven's deafness was caused by "inner ear" problems,
>>sometimes
>>called labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical
>>problems, such as damage to the eardrum or the small bones of
>>the inner
>>ear. As such, it is unlikely that the bone conduction would have
>>been
>>any use to him.
>>A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>>--
>>References
>>1. mailto:[4]john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>To get on or off this list see list information at
>>[5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>>  --
>>  Markus Lutz
>>  SchulstraÃe 11
>>  88422 Bad Buchau
>>  Tel   0 75 82 / 92 62 89
>>  Fax   0 75 82 / 92 62 90
>>  Mail [6]mar...@gmlutz.de
>> 
>>  --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>  1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
>>  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Lj8Qy2Ilk=2965s
>>  3. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>  4. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>>  5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>  6. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
>> 
> 
> 
>

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread Lex van Sante 
Thomas Mace was deaf in his later years. He pressed his front teeth against the 
edge of the soundboard and thus was able to hear what he was playing. He 
describes this in his Musicks’ Monument in 1676.
> Op 12 nov. 2017, om 15:33 heeft G. C.  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
>   Very interesting discourse about Beethoven's deafness, several more
>   available (in german) on YT. Thanks for the link Markus. Although it
>   doesn't specify the nature of the hearing aid connected to the piano
>   which was used, I assume that all hasn't yet been said in this matter.
>   G.
> 
>   On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Markus Lutz <[1]mar...@gmlutz.de>
>   wrote:
> 
>   I'm not sure that this is a myth.
>   There is a youtube video in German by the medical society of Mainz
>   about Beethoven's deafness and his relation to Johann Nepomuk Mälzel
>   (the inventor of the metronome).
>   Beethoven used his ear trumpets and Mälzel also constructed a
>   mechanism that was set on the piano and transported the sound directly
>   to the ear (around 46m).
>   [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Lj8Qy2Ilk=2965s
>   Best regards
>   Markus
>   Am 11.11.2017 um 23:31 schrieb G. C.:
> 
> A myth then apparently. Interesting though, that:
> The "phenomenon" of bone conduction is generally credited as
> being
> discovered in the 1500s (though some say it can be traced back
> to
> around 2AD). A physician, mathematician, philosopher and
> all-around
> brilliant fella' by the name of Girolamo Cardano noticed that it
> was
> possible to hear through a rod or spear when placed between the
> teeth.
> He detailed his findings in his controversial publication De
> Subtilitate, but the information hadn't really been applied to
> anything, let alone to help the deaf or hearing-impaired, until
> later.
> G.
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 7:44 PM, John Mardinly
> <[1][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> Beethoven's deafness was caused by "inner ear" problems,
> sometimes
> called labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical
> problems, such as damage to the eardrum or the small bones of
> the inner
> ear. As such, it is unlikely that the bone conduction would have
> been
> any use to him.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> --
> References
> 1. mailto:[4]john.mardi...@asu.edu
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
>   Markus Lutz
>   SchulstraÃe 11
>   88422 Bad Buchau
>   Tel   0 75 82 / 92 62 89
>   Fax   0 75 82 / 92 62 90
>   Mail [6]mar...@gmlutz.de
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
>   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Lj8Qy2Ilk=2965s
>   3. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>   4. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
>   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   6. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
>

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread G. C. 
   Very interesting discourse about Beethoven's deafness, several more
   available (in german) on YT. Thanks for the link Markus. Although it
   doesn't specify the nature of the hearing aid connected to the piano
   which was used, I assume that all hasn't yet been said in this matter.
   G.

   On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Markus Lutz <[1]mar...@gmlutz.de>
   wrote:

   I'm not sure that this is a myth.
   There is a youtube video in German by the medical society of Mainz
   about Beethoven's deafness and his relation to Johann Nepomuk Mälzel
   (the inventor of the metronome).
   Beethoven used his ear trumpets and Mälzel also constructed a
   mechanism that was set on the piano and transported the sound directly
   to the ear (around 46m).
   [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Lj8Qy2Ilk=2965s
   Best regards
   Markus
   Am 11.11.2017 um 23:31 schrieb G. C.:

 A myth then apparently. Interesting though, that:
 The "phenomenon" of bone conduction is generally credited as
 being
 discovered in the 1500s (though some say it can be traced back
 to
 around 2AD). A physician, mathematician, philosopher and
 all-around
 brilliant fella' by the name of Girolamo Cardano noticed that it
 was
 possible to hear through a rod or spear when placed between the
 teeth.
 He detailed his findings in his controversial publication De
 Subtilitate, but the information hadn't really been applied to
 anything, let alone to help the deaf or hearing-impaired, until
 later.
 G.
 On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 7:44 PM, John Mardinly
 <[1][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
 Beethoven's deafness was caused by "inner ear" problems,
 sometimes
 called labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical
 problems, such as damage to the eardrum or the small bones of
 the inner
 ear. As such, it is unlikely that the bone conduction would have
 been
 any use to him.
 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 --
 References
 1. mailto:[4]john.mardi...@asu.edu
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --
   Markus Lutz
   SchulstraÃe 11
   88422 Bad Buchau
   Tel   0 75 82 / 92 62 89
   Fax   0 75 82 / 92 62 90
   Mail [6]mar...@gmlutz.de

   --

References

   1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Lj8Qy2Ilk=2965s
   3. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   4. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread Christopher Wilke 
   Just curious - How do we know the exact cause of Beethoven's deafness
   today? I assume doctors of the time didn't possess enough knowledge of
   the causes of deafness to make a diagnosis.

   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On Saturday, November 11, 2017, 7:01 PM, John Mardinly
    wrote:

   Beethoven's deafness was caused by "inner ear" problems, sometimes
   called labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical
   problems, such as damage to the eardrum or the small bones of the inner
   ear. As such, it is unlikely that the bone conduction would have been
   any use to him.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   > On Nov 10, 2017, at 5:27 PM, howard posner
   <[2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

   >

   >

   >> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C. <[3]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:

   >>

   >>  According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was
   the

   >>  inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,

   >>  discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite
   down on

   >>  it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations
   in

   >>  his jaw bone.

   >

   > Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like
   this one on the Time Magazine website:

   >

   > Interest in Beethoven's hearing loss has long captivated his fans,

   > many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf

   > composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even

   > after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME

   > once described it, "by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it
   against

   > the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds."

   >

   > I've never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like
   this.  Has anyone else?

   >

   >

   >

   > To get on or off this list see list information at

   >
   [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=XAd
   5dnGEKxTCDxtWP81_OkSN7GFzU2vnXU4QhxuI7oU=Btd8TqMsKFhk-qbydx4-AdWQqPVK
   tB-etle0bCxH5gY=

   --

References

   1. https://yho.com/footer0
   2. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   3. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=XAd5dnGEKxTCDxtWP81_OkSN7GFzU2vnXU4QhxuI7oU=Btd8TqMsKFhk-qbydx4-AdWQqPVKtB-etle0bCxH5gY=

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread Markus Lutz 

I'm not sure that this is a myth.
There is a youtube video in German by the medical society of Mainz about 
Beethoven's deafness and his relation to Johann Nepomuk Mälzel (the 
inventor of the metronome).
Beethoven used his ear trumpets and Mälzel also constructed a mechanism 
that was set on the piano and transported the sound directly to the ear 
(around 46m).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Lj8Qy2Ilk=2965s

Best regards
Markus

Am 11.11.2017 um 23:31 schrieb G. C.:

A myth then apparently. Interesting though, that:
The "phenomenon" of bone conduction is generally credited as being
discovered in the 1500s (though some say it can be traced back to
around 2AD). A physician, mathematician, philosopher and all-around
brilliant fella' by the name of Girolamo Cardano noticed that it was
possible to hear through a rod or spear when placed between the teeth.
He detailed his findings in his controversial publication De
Subtilitate, but the information hadn't really been applied to
anything, let alone to help the deaf or hearing-impaired, until later.
G.
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 7:44 PM, John Mardinly
<[1]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
Beethoven's deafness was caused by "inner ear" problems, sometimes
called labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical
problems, such as damage to the eardrum or the small bones of the inner
ear. As such, it is unlikely that the bone conduction would have been
any use to him.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

--

References

1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu


To get on or off this list see list information at
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--

Markus Lutz
Schulstraße 11

88422 Bad Buchau

Tel  0 75 82 / 92 62 89
Fax  0 75 82 / 92 62 90
Mail mar...@gmlutz.de

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread G. C. 
   A myth then apparently. Interesting though, that:
   The "phenomenon" of bone conduction is generally credited as being
   discovered in the 1500s (though some say it can be traced back to
   around 2AD). A physician, mathematician, philosopher and all-around
   brilliant fella' by the name of Girolamo Cardano noticed that it was
   possible to hear through a rod or spear when placed between the teeth.
   He detailed his findings in his controversial publication De
   Subtilitate, but the information hadn't really been applied to
   anything, let alone to help the deaf or hearing-impaired, until later.
   G.
   On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 7:44 PM, John Mardinly
   <[1]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
   Beethoven's deafness was caused by "inner ear" problems, sometimes
   called labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical
   problems, such as damage to the eardrum or the small bones of the inner
   ear. As such, it is unlikely that the bone conduction would have been
   any use to him.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   --

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-12 Thread wayne lute 
John meant to say . . . 

Beethoven’s deafness was caused by “inner ear” problems, sometimes called 
labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical problems, such 
as damage to the eardrum or the small bones of the inner ear. As such, it is 
unlikely that the bone conduction would have been any use to him. 

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> Date: November 11, 2017 at 12:17:52 PM EST
> To: howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
> Cc: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> 
> гM4ь6м>;р>јпa|а;уNЛпNћЎкВчИ*'ЕщэO*^Еьmў™ZŠw!jЛ
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 


--

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-11 Thread John Mardinly 
Beethoven’s deafness was caused by “inner ear” problems, sometimes called 
labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical problems, such as 
damage to the eardrum or the small bones of the inner ear. As such, it is 
unlikely that the bone conduction would have been any use to him. 

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.




> On Nov 10, 2017, at 5:27 PM, howard posner  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C.  wrote:
>> 
>>  According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was the
>>  inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,
>>  discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite down on
>>  it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations in
>>  his jaw bone.
> 
> Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like this one 
> on the Time Magazine website:
> 
> Interest in Beethoven’s hearing loss has long captivated his fans, 
> many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf 
> composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even 
> after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME 
> once described it, “by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it against 
> the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds.”
> 
> I’ve never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like this.  Has 
> anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=XAd5dnGEKxTCDxtWP81_OkSN7GFzU2vnXU4QhxuI7oU=Btd8TqMsKFhk-qbydx4-AdWQqPVKtB-etle0bCxH5gY=

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-11 Thread Alain Veylit 
No, it is just an absurd joke that mostly works with children under age 
12... But whatever makes a child giggle hysterically is worth 
remembering. (IMHO)


Another example: "What is the difference between a crow?" Answer: "none, 
both legs are the same". I guess these are equivalent to the English 
Knock, knock jokes.


I personally miss the Prairie Home Companion all jokes shows...

My one and only lute joke: In a duet with lute and cymbals, the cymbals 
have the melody. Anyone with a good ending for: A lute walks into a bar ...?



On 11/10/2017 04:35 PM, howard posner wrote:

On Nov 8, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Alain Veylit  wrote:

PS: bad French joke: Beethoven was so deaf that all his life he thought he was 
a painter...

Is this a pun in French?



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[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-11 Thread John Mardinly 
ÓM4ì
6Ü>;à>øßa|Ð;ãN»ßNû®Ú²ç¸*'µéíO*^µìmþ™ZŠw!j»

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[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-11 Thread G. C. 
   So, is this just another example of that recent (american?) phenomenon
   "fake news"? The google string "Beethoven bone conduction" gives an
   awful lot of hits! And Mace beating him to it is great. :) Doesn't the
   custom of leaning the lute onto a table also somehow associate to the
   question, vibrationwise? It's quite alluring to buy the argument that
   Beethoven did indeed use such a contraption, considering that he was
   able to compose the 9th symphony while being stone deaf.
   G.
   On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 7:59 AM, howard posner
   <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
   I was being unclear.   I also recall Mace chomping his lute, but I was
   asking about Beethoven specifically.   I haven't seen a source for
   these 20th/21st century descriptions of his using bone conduction.
   The very contrary account of Beethoven banging on an out-of-tune piano
   and howling as he composed the Missa Solemnis is from Schindler, who
   knew Beethoven but was every bit as much as much of a fiction writer as
   Dan Brown.

   --

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-10 Thread howard posner 
I was being unclear.  I also recall Mace chomping his lute, but I was asking 
about Beethoven specifically.  I haven’t seen a source for these 20th/21st 
century descriptions of his using bone conduction.  

The very contrary account of Beethoven banging on an out-of-tune piano and 
howling as he composed the Missa Solemnis is from Schindler, who knew Beethoven 
but was every bit as much as much of a fiction writer as Dan Brown.

> On Nov 10, 2017, at 7:01 PM, jeff <jjnoo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Check out Mace. As I recall, in his later years, he “heard” his lute by 
> touching his teeth to the edge of the soundboard or edge of the bowl where it 
> meets the soundboard. Late in the book, I think, and part of his 
> complaints/observations about aging.
> 
> Been a long time since I’ve looked at it, so I could be making this up. But I 
> think not…
> 
> See ya,
> 
> jeff 
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
> From: howard posner
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:29 PM
> To: Lutelist
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> 
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C. <kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was the
>>  inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,
>>  discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite down on
>>  it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations in
>>  his jaw bone.
> 
> Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like this one 
> on the Time Magazine website:
> 
> Interest in Beethoven’s hearing loss has long captivated his fans, 
> many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf 
> composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even 
> after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME 
> once described it, “by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it against 
> the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds.”
> 
> I’ve never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like this.  Has 
> anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> --

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-10 Thread jeff 
Check out Mace. As I recall, in his later years, he “heard” his lute by 
touching his teeth to the edge of the soundboard or edge of the bowl where it 
meets the soundboard. Late in the book, I think, and part of his 
complaints/observations about aging.

Been a long time since I’ve looked at it, so I could be making this up. But I 
think not…

See ya,

jeff 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: howard posner
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:29 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music


> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C. <kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was the
>   inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,
>   discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite down on
>   it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations in
>   his jaw bone.

Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like this one on 
the Time Magazine website:

Interest in Beethoven’s hearing loss has long captivated his fans, 
many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf 
composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even 
after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME 
once described it, “by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it against 
the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds.”

I’ve never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like this.  Has 
anyone else?



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-10 Thread howard posner 

> On Nov 8, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Alain Veylit  wrote:
> 
> PS: bad French joke: Beethoven was so deaf that all his life he thought he 
> was a painter...

Is this a pun in French?



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-10 Thread howard posner 

> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C.  wrote:
> 
>   According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was the
>   inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,
>   discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite down on
>   it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations in
>   his jaw bone.

Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like this one on 
the Time Magazine website:

Interest in Beethoven’s hearing loss has long captivated his fans, 
many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf 
composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even 
after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME 
once described it, “by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it against 
the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds.”

I’ve never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like this.  Has 
anyone else?



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-10 Thread Christopher Stetson 
   From a historical perspective even "bad" music is worth preserving and
   making available, so thanks, Alain, for undertaking this project.
   I'll read through it as soon as my slipped 2nd course strings are back
   up to pitch.   I wouldn't have taken the trouble without your
   intabulations.
   Best to all, and keep playing.
   Chris.

   On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 1:50 PM, G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:

According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven
 was the
inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,
discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite
 down on
it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through
 vibrations in
his jaw bone.
And "BAD" music? Well, it's all relative, but I have to say, that
 I
pity the hordes of poor sophomore students who have to dredge
 through
those endless uninspiring etudes of low musical value, when
 learning
the piano or the classical guitar, by third rate composers who
 should
have kept to their painting.
G.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Alain Veylit
<[1][2]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:
  Hi everyone,
  I have set up a transcription project for the Filippo Dalla
 Casa
  Bologna manuscript -- see [2][3]http://fandango.musickshandmad
  [4]e.com/dalla-casa.
  I am a little concerned however that many people seem to think
 that
  music is really, really bad... - so bad that it is not worth
  transcribing from grand staff to tablature, thus keeping it in
 the
  safe zone of the not seen, not heard until the end of times
 (and
  perhaps beyond, if at all possible)
  I personally find that music not worse than average -I know
  little about the 1760s music-wise... Am I the only one with
 such bad
  taste in music I cannot recognize "bad music"
  What makes bad lute music? Does it even exist? What - or who -
 comes
  to mind? Have you met with it? What do you think about the
 Dalla
  Casa music (some of which is not by him)? Do you think he
 should
  have stuck to his painter's brushes?
  Alain
  PS: bad French joke: Beethoven was so deaf that all his life he
  thought he was a painter...
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [3][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. mailto:[6]al...@musickshandmade.com
2. [7]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/dalla-casa
3. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   3. http://fandango.musickshandmad/
   4. http://e.com/dalla-casa
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   7. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/dalla-casa
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-10 Thread G. C. 
   According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was the
   inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,
   discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite down on
   it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations in
   his jaw bone.
   And "BAD" music? Well, it's all relative, but I have to say, that I
   pity the hordes of poor sophomore students who have to dredge through
   those endless uninspiring etudes of low musical value, when learning
   the piano or the classical guitar, by third rate composers who should
   have kept to their painting.
   G.

   On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Alain Veylit
   <[1]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 I have set up a transcription project for the Filippo Dalla Casa
 Bologna manuscript -- see [2]http://fandango.musickshandmad
 e.com/dalla-casa.
 I am a little concerned however that many people seem to think that
 music is really, really bad... - so bad that it is not worth
 transcribing from grand staff to tablature, thus keeping it in the
 safe zone of the not seen, not heard until the end of times (and
 perhaps beyond, if at all possible)
 I personally find that music not worse than average -   I know
 little about the 1760s music-wise... Am I the only one with such bad
 taste in music I cannot recognize "bad music"
 What makes bad lute music? Does it even exist? What - or who - comes
 to mind? Have you met with it? What do you think about the Dalla
 Casa music (some of which is not by him)? Do you think he should
 have stuck to his painter's brushes?
 Alain
 PS: bad French joke: Beethoven was so deaf that all his life he
 thought he was a painter...
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   2. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/dalla-casa
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

2017-11-08 Thread Braig, Eugene 
Perhaps not as profound as a Weiss tombeau, but I simply like the sound of much 
of Dalla Casa's archlute music, and he saw fit to include several works for 
mandolino/mandola as well.  Worth a listen to judge for one's self:

https://www.hidekiyamaya.com/recordings
https://store.cdbaby.com/cd/hidekiyamaya2
https://store.cdbaby.com/cd/hidekijohn


Eugene


-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Alain Veylit
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 7:54 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Bad lute music

Hi everyone,
I have set up a transcription project for the Filippo Dalla Casa Bologna 
manuscript -- see http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/dalla-casa.
I am a little concerned however that many people seem to think that music is 
really, really bad... - so bad that it is not worth transcribing from grand 
staff to tablature, thus keeping it in the safe zone of the not seen, not heard 
until the end of times (and perhaps beyond, if at all possible) I personally 
find that music not worse than average -  I know little about the 1760s 
music-wise... Am I the only one with such bad taste in music I cannot recognize 
"bad music"
What makes bad lute music? Does it even exist? What - or who - comes to mind? 
Have you met with it? What do you think about the Dalla Casa music (some of 
which is not by him)? Do you think he should have stuck to his painter's 
brushes?
Alain
PS: bad French joke: Beethoven was so deaf that all his life he thought he was 
a painter...



To get on or off this list see list information at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html