Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On 2016-10-23, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: quoted-printable --] > Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2016, 08:45 +0200 schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller: >> In the meantime, could you please revert your original change? I >> think >> it is clear that we will change the strings, but differently. > Since you didn't do it, I did. Thank you. Günter
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2016, 08:45 +0200 schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller: > In the meantime, could you please revert your original change? I > think > it is clear that we will change the strings, but differently. Since you didn't do it, I did. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On 2016-10-22, Guenter Milde wrote: > On 2016-10-22, Enrico Forestieri wrote: >> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 05:16:49PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >>> How bad can it become for someone who has changed the [lyrc.fontenc] >>> setting? ... >> However, more damage can result if one selected T2A as a default >> and the default setting is converted to T1 due to lack of that info. > This will normally not hurt, as LyX automatically adds T2A font encoding for > Cyrillic characters. > The only (hypothetical) instance would be the selection in the > user preamble of a font that only exists in T2A encoding in documents with > parts in a Latin-written language. However, problems may arise for the rare case of a user preferring/requiring a non-standard font encoding like LY1. Günter
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Am Samstag, den 22.10.2016, 18:02 + schrieb Guenter Milde: > > The first option (which should be the default, IMHO) uses whatever > font > > encoding is considered appropriate for the given language(s) and > > backend. We determine that via the fontenc option in languages. > > Please also take into account the font setting itself: [Default] > should > trigger OT1 and (for languages expecting something different) a > warning > unless we know the class selects an appropriate font. You probably mean [Automatic] here. We can implement whatever is considered necessary in that routine. This is analoguous to the "Automatic" babel/polyglossia thing we already have. In the meantime, could you please revert your original change? I think it is clear that we will change the strings, but differently. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On 2016-10-22, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: quoted-printable --] > Am Samstag, den 22.10.2016, 16:37 +0200 schrieb Jean-Marc Lasgouttes: >> Le 22/10/2016 à 13:40, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : >> > Moreover, we add a new entry "LyX Default", which corresponds >> > to what is now the default (i.e, load fontenc with the value >> > specified >> > in Tools->Preferences->Output->LaTeX). >> I still wonder why we should keep this preference. > Me, too. I opt for removing it and giving the user the possibility to > select from the following: > LaTeX Font Encoding Selection:Automatic > Custom > None Sounds reasonable. > The first option (which should be the default, IMHO) uses whatever font > encoding is considered appropriate for the given language(s) and > backend. We determine that via the fontenc option in languages. Please also take into account the font setting itself: [Default] should trigger OT1 and (for languages expecting something different) a warning unless we know the class selects an appropriate font. > Custom would be all the user set himself and ignores all fontenc > suggestions > None would not do any fontenc calls whatsoever. Günter
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On 2016-10-22, Enrico Forestieri wrote: > On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 05:05:04PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> Le 22/10/2016 à 16:58, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : >> > > I still wonder why we should keep this preference. >> > >> > Good observation. I think for backward compatibility. Otherwise we >> > don't know what was the old default. Suppose that a user unchecked >> > that preference, meaning that no fontenc is loaded. If we miss this >> > info, we should convert an old [Default] to T1 (the old default), >> > thus screwing up old documents. The same if instead that was changed >> > to OT1, for example. >> I think that at some point we should remove it and describe what to do in >> Release Notes for existing documents. What I do not know is whether a few >> people will face much work to get their documents in good shape again. > If you ask me, I think that 99.99% of users didn't change that default. > If someone was needing a different encoding, it is much more likely that > he stumbled upon the custom setting in the document settings dialog > rather than that setting in the preferences. I'd be cautious with such estimates. After all, the document specific setting is just 8 years old and the 8 years before changing the LyX wide default was the only option. Users may have set it and never thougth about it for ages. OTOH, even a 2012 an answer at stackexcange did only know about the global setting. (I added a comment about the per-document setting when stumbling across it yesterday.) Günter
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On 2016-10-22, Enrico Forestieri wrote: > On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 05:16:49PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> Le 22/10/2016 à 17:15, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : >> > If you ask me, I think that 99.99% of users didn't change that default. >> > If someone was needing a different encoding, it is much more likely that >> > he stumbled upon the custom setting in the document settings dialog >> > rather than that setting in the preferences. >> How bad can it become for someone who has changed the setting? > The main differences between OT1 and T1 are explained here: > http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/664/why-should-i-use-usepackaget1fontenc > If one changed it to OT1, now he would find that bitmapped fonts are > being used. Most probably he did that for getting vector fonts and > now his workaround is defeated. This is something we could/should address in [Automatic]. > However, more damage can result if one selected T2A as a default > and the default setting is converted to T1 due to lack of that info. This will normally not hurt, as LyX automatically adds T2A font encoding for Cyrillic characters. The only (hypothetical) instance would be the selection in the user preamble of a font that only exists in T2A encoding in documents with parts in a Latin-written language. Günter
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Am Samstag, den 22.10.2016, 18:41 +0200 schrieb Enrico Forestieri: > The main differences between OT1 and T1 are explained here: > http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/664/why-should-i-use-usepackag > et1fontenc > > If one changed it to OT1, now he would find that bitmapped fonts are > being used. Most probably he did that for getting vector fonts and > now his workaround is defeated. > > However, more damage can result if one selected T2A as a default > and the default setting is converted to T1 due to lack of that info. If we use automatic setting as default, as I suggested, I don't think that anything really serious can happen. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 05:16:49PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > Le 22/10/2016 à 17:15, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : > > If you ask me, I think that 99.99% of users didn't change that default. > > If someone was needing a different encoding, it is much more likely that > > he stumbled upon the custom setting in the document settings dialog > > rather than that setting in the preferences. > > How bad can it become for someone who has changed the setting? The main differences between OT1 and T1 are explained here: http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/664/why-should-i-use-usepackaget1fontenc If one changed it to OT1, now he would find that bitmapped fonts are being used. Most probably he did that for getting vector fonts and now his workaround is defeated. However, more damage can result if one selected T2A as a default and the default setting is converted to T1 due to lack of that info. -- Enrico
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Le 22/10/2016 à 17:16, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes a écrit : Le 22/10/2016 à 17:15, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : If you ask me, I think that 99.99% of users didn't change that default. If someone was needing a different encoding, it is much more likely that he stumbled upon the custom setting in the document settings dialog rather than that setting in the preferences. How bad can it become for someone who has changed the setting? The setting can just be deprecated and hidden, instead of removed straight away. New versions of LyX would save the former global default with the file after conversion. The only bad case is if the file is open and converted on an installation with a global setting the document was not made for. But this is only the issue we already have.
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Le 22/10/2016 à 17:15, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : If you ask me, I think that 99.99% of users didn't change that default. If someone was needing a different encoding, it is much more likely that he stumbled upon the custom setting in the document settings dialog rather than that setting in the preferences. How bad can it become for someone who has changed the setting? JMarc
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 05:05:04PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > Le 22/10/2016 à 16:58, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : > > > I still wonder why we should keep this preference. > > > > Good observation. I think for backward compatibility. Otherwise we > > don't know what was the old default. Suppose that a user unchecked > > that preference, meaning that no fontenc is loaded. If we miss this > > info, we should convert an old [Default] to T1 (the old default), > > thus screwing up old documents. The same if instead that was changed > > to OT1, for example. > > I think that at some point we should remove it and describe what to do in > Release Notes for existing documents. What I do not know is whether a few > people will face much work to get their documents in good shape again. If you ask me, I think that 99.99% of users didn't change that default. If someone was needing a different encoding, it is much more likely that he stumbled upon the custom setting in the document settings dialog rather than that setting in the preferences. -- Enrico
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Le 22/10/2016 à 16:58, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : I still wonder why we should keep this preference. Good observation. I think for backward compatibility. Otherwise we don't know what was the old default. Suppose that a user unchecked that preference, meaning that no fontenc is loaded. If we miss this info, we should convert an old [Default] to T1 (the old default), thus screwing up old documents. The same if instead that was changed to OT1, for example. I think that at some point we should remove it and describe what to do in Release Notes for existing documents. What I do not know is whether a few people will face much work to get their documents in good shape again. JMarc
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Am Samstag, den 22.10.2016, 16:37 +0200 schrieb Jean-Marc Lasgouttes: > Le 22/10/2016 à 13:40, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : > > Moreover, we add a new entry "LyX Default", which corresponds > > to what is now the default (i.e, load fontenc with the value > > specified > > in Tools->Preferences->Output->LaTeX). > > I still wonder why we should keep this preference. Me, too. I opt for removing it and giving the user the possibility to select from the following: LaTeX Font Encoding Selection: Automatic Custom None The first option (which should be the default, IMHO) uses whatever font encoding is considered appropriate for the given language(s) and backend. We determine that via the fontenc option in languages. Custom would be all the user set himself and ignores all fontenc suggestions None would not do any fontenc calls whatsoever. Jürgen > > JMarc > signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 04:37:04PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > Le 22/10/2016 à 13:40, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : > > Moreover, we add a new entry "LyX Default", which corresponds > > to what is now the default (i.e, load fontenc with the value specified > > in Tools->Preferences->Output->LaTeX). > > I still wonder why we should keep this preference. Good observation. I think for backward compatibility. Otherwise we don't know what was the old default. Suppose that a user unchecked that preference, meaning that no fontenc is loaded. If we miss this info, we should convert an old [Default] to T1 (the old default), thus screwing up old documents. The same if instead that was changed to OT1, for example. OTOH, that global preference is dangerous, because if someone sends you a document expecting a given fontenc (achieved by the sender by changing this pref) and you have a different default, everything may screw up. So, having this as a globlal preference is not ideal, apparently. -- Enrico
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Le 22/10/2016 à 13:40, Enrico Forestieri a écrit : Moreover, we add a new entry "LyX Default", which corresponds to what is now the default (i.e, load fontenc with the value specified in Tools->Preferences->Output->LaTeX). I still wonder why we should keep this preference. JMarc
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 11:16:30PM +, Guenter Milde wrote: > On 2016-10-21, Enrico Forestieri wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 07:05:29PM +, Guenter Milde wrote: > >> On 2016-10-21, Enrico Forestieri wrote: > > >> > I think that the old "None (no fontenc)" was more than adequate. > >> > This tells that *LyX* is not going to select any encoding. > > >> However, it was inconsistent. The same font dialog uses [Default] when > >> LyX is not going to select any font. Also the internal name is > >> "default". > > > It is because the default encoding has been T1 since ever. I also think > > that it is unfortunate that selecting everything to be default, instead > > one finds that lyx is not producing a pristine latex file such as > > \documentclass{article} > > \begin{document} > > \end{document} > > but this is historical. Each program has his quirks, and this one has > > been there since the beginning. > > Until 2008, "default" meant unequivocally "pristine latex". > LyX provided only a LyX-wide setting > Tools>Preferences>Output>LaTeX>Use_LaTeX_font_encoding. Allowed values > were a comma-separted list of font encodings or the special value > "default" for "don't load fontenc". > > Confusion started, when per-document fontenc setting was added in > [df329341a/lyxgit] to fix bug #5730. As the LyX-wide setting was kept, we > ended up with two defaults: the LyX-wide setting and the LaTeX (or > documentclass) default. > > Unfortunatly, the GUI name "Default" was chosen for the LyX-wide default. > Since then, selecting "Default" in the font encoding GUI inserts > additional code and usually leads to a font encoding differing from the > document class default. > > > This is something that one gets accustomed to. Expert users know how to > > deal with it, > > Even experts and developers get this wrong: > > E.g. Ticket #7334 "bitmapped fonts are still default" was closed as "wontfix" > with the comment > >we have the policy to not alter the class defaults (by default). > > However, the problem is actually caused by the font encoding deviating from > the class default. Sticking to the policy would have solved it (but > created others). > > > while novices don't mind and only want something that > > works and looks good. > > Documents with LyX's default settings still use bitmap fonts and don't > look good (unless you installed CM-Super). > > ... > > > Given what said above, having "LyX Default" instead of simply > > "Default" may be Ok (to differentiate from a consistency point of > > view), but another default (Class default) without any classification > > can be confusing. > > > So, it would be better to add "(no fontenc)", but then I still think > > that "None (no fontenc)" is better and doesn't need to be deciphered > > because it has always been like that. > > I prefer keeping "Default" in both GUI names, because the first ensures > compatiblity with the current naming and the second with the "Default"s > in the lines below. In a complex situation, confused is better than > misled. > > > Hence, old users know what it means, > > My experience is that many old users got it wrong all the time... > > > while new users will learn its meaning. For them, having "Class > > default" is not any clear and more confusing, IMHO. > > This was Jürgens choice, my preference is "LaTeX Default" with a tooltip: > > Use the documentclass' default encoding, don't load the fontspec package > > Jürgen pointed out, that "no fontenc" may be misleading, as fontenc > could be loaded by a package or the document class. I could live with > "LaTeX Default (no fontenc)" as a pragmatic way to tell users where to > click to avoid fontenc loading by LyX. Thanks for this detailed explanation. It makes clearer to me your rationale. Now I agree with you and make an even more radical proposal. Let's leave [Default] as the default, but now [Default] means "LaTeX default", i.e., no fontenc. In other words we rename "None (no fontenc)" to "Default" and make it the default (sorry for the pun). Moreover, we add a new entry "LyX Default", which corresponds to what is now the default (i.e, load fontenc with the value specified in Tools->Preferences->Output->LaTeX). Of course, this means that a lyx2lyx conversion has to be added, so that documents produced with previous versions have their [Default] changed to [LyX Default]. In this way, new documents get no fontenc loading by default and old documents continue working as usual. Who likes to always load fontenc, can open Document->Settings, select [LyX Default] and "Save as Document Defaults" their choice. This is the cleanest way to proceed, IMHO. -- Enrico
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On 2016-10-21, Enrico Forestieri wrote: > On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 07:05:29PM +, Guenter Milde wrote: >> On 2016-10-21, Enrico Forestieri wrote: >> > I think that the old "None (no fontenc)" was more than adequate. >> > This tells that *LyX* is not going to select any encoding. >> However, it was inconsistent. The same font dialog uses [Default] when >> LyX is not going to select any font. Also the internal name is >> "default". > It is because the default encoding has been T1 since ever. I also think > that it is unfortunate that selecting everything to be default, instead > one finds that lyx is not producing a pristine latex file such as > \documentclass{article} > \begin{document} > \end{document} > but this is historical. Each program has his quirks, and this one has > been there since the beginning. Until 2008, "default" meant unequivocally "pristine latex". LyX provided only a LyX-wide setting Tools>Preferences>Output>LaTeX>Use_LaTeX_font_encoding. Allowed values were a comma-separted list of font encodings or the special value "default" for "don't load fontenc". Confusion started, when per-document fontenc setting was added in [df329341a/lyxgit] to fix bug #5730. As the LyX-wide setting was kept, we ended up with two defaults: the LyX-wide setting and the LaTeX (or documentclass) default. Unfortunatly, the GUI name "Default" was chosen for the LyX-wide default. Since then, selecting "Default" in the font encoding GUI inserts additional code and usually leads to a font encoding differing from the document class default. > This is something that one gets accustomed to. Expert users know how to > deal with it, Even experts and developers get this wrong: E.g. Ticket #7334 "bitmapped fonts are still default" was closed as "wontfix" with the comment we have the policy to not alter the class defaults (by default). However, the problem is actually caused by the font encoding deviating from the class default. Sticking to the policy would have solved it (but created others). > while novices don't mind and only want something that > works and looks good. Documents with LyX's default settings still use bitmap fonts and don't look good (unless you installed CM-Super). ... > Given what said above, having "LyX Default" instead of simply > "Default" may be Ok (to differentiate from a consistency point of > view), but another default (Class default) without any classification > can be confusing. > So, it would be better to add "(no fontenc)", but then I still think > that "None (no fontenc)" is better and doesn't need to be deciphered > because it has always been like that. I prefer keeping "Default" in both GUI names, because the first ensures compatiblity with the current naming and the second with the "Default"s in the lines below. In a complex situation, confused is better than misled. > Hence, old users know what it means, My experience is that many old users got it wrong all the time... > while new users will learn its meaning. For them, having "Class > default" is not any clear and more confusing, IMHO. This was Jürgens choice, my preference is "LaTeX Default" with a tooltip: Use the documentclass' default encoding, don't load the fontspec package Jürgen pointed out, that "no fontenc" may be misleading, as fontenc could be loaded by a package or the document class. I could live with "LaTeX Default (no fontenc)" as a pragmatic way to tell users where to click to avoid fontenc loading by LyX. Thanks, Günter
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 07:05:29PM +, Guenter Milde wrote: > On 2016-10-21, Enrico Forestieri wrote: > > > I think that the old "None (no fontenc)" was more than adequate. > > This tells that *LyX* is not going to select any encoding. > > However, it was inconsistent. The same fibt dialog uses [Default] when LyX is > not going to select any font. Also the internal name is "default". It is because the default encoding has been T1 since ever. I also think that it is unfortunate that selecting everything to be default, instead one finds that lyx is not producing a pristine latex file such as \documentclass{article} \begin{document} \end{document} but this is historical. Each program has his quirks, and this one has been there since the beginning. This is something that one gets accustomed to. Expert users know how to deal with it, while novices don't mind and only want something that works and looks good. So, given that the "Default" has been stolen, having a "None (no fontenc)" is helpful to experts to understand what is going on, while novices grasp that something is not being selected. Probably, they don't even understand what "TeX default" means, given that there is also another default entry. I think they would be even more confused than now. > > For that goal, I would have suggested to simply change "Default" > > to "LyX Default". I don't have any idea of what is meant for > > "Global Default". > > Global Default is just a merge of the internal name and the previous GUI > name for consistency with the previous name and with the other names > of this dialogue. "LyX Default" would be OK, too. > Also, there is a suggestion to remove the global setting alltogether (see > Jean-Marcs comment). Note that menus should be comprehensible to users rather than developers. I was not even thinking that global refers to an internal classification which is not visible. > > Such controversial changes should not be performed without discussion. > > I did not expect controversy after 14 months without any response to the bug > report. I think that you should not expect to have a discussion in the bug tracker about topics such as this one. I don't even think it can be classified as a bug. The fact that in 14 months nobody cared to comment may simply mean that nobody feels that is an essential thing that should be corrected. > So my updated proposal is > > value new GUI name > == = > global LyX Default # eventually remove this value and lyxrc.fontenc > ¹ Custom > defaultClass Default # or LaTeX Default > > with a short explanation in the tooltip and full description in > the Guide. Given what said above, having "LyX Default" instead of simply "Default" may be Ok (to differentiate from a consistency point of view), but another default (Class default) without any classification can be confusing. So, it would be better to add "(no fontenc)", buth then I still think that "None (no fontenc)" is better and doesn't need to be deciphered because it has always been like that. Hence, old users know what it means, while new users will learn its meaning. For them, having "Class default" is not any clear and more confusing, IMHO. -- Enrico
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On 2016-10-21, Enrico Forestieri wrote: > On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:05:00PM +0200, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: >> 2016-10-21 11:43 GMT+02:00 Guenter Milde: >> I'd prefer something such as "Class Defaults" > I think that the old "None (no fontenc)" was more than adequate. > This tells that *LyX* is not going to select any encoding. However, it was inconsistent. The same fibt dialog uses [Default] when LyX is not going to select any font. Also the internal name is "default". We have the variable "fontenc" (in the *.lyx file called "\fontencoding") with: value old GUI name Action == = global Default depends on lyxrc.fontenc (default is equal to custom with T1) ¹ Custominsert \usepackage[]{fontenc} in document-preamble defaultNone (no fontenc) insert macro definitions missing in OT1 in document preamble to get working quotes ¹ is a comma separated list of TeX font encodings (cf `texdoc encguide.pdf`) ... > For that goal, I would have suggested to simply change "Default" > to "LyX Default". I don't have any idea of what is meant for > "Global Default". Global Default is just a merge of the internal name and the previous GUI name for consistency with the previous name and with the other names of this dialogue. "LyX Default" would be OK, too. Also, there is a suggestion to remove the global setting alltogether (see Jean-Marcs comment). > Such controversial changes should not be performed without discussion. I did not expect controversy after 14 months without any response to the bug report. So my updated proposal is value new GUI name == = global LyX Default # eventually remove this value and lyxrc.fontenc ¹ Custom defaultClass Default # or LaTeX Default with a short explanation in the tooltip and full description in the Guide. Günter
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:05:00PM +0200, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > 2016-10-21 11:43 GMT+02:00 Guenter Milde: > > > Would it help to remove just the "OT1" leaving "TeX default, no fontenc"? > > * texperts know the TeX default is OT1 > > * texpert know the default can be changed and fontenc (as any package) can > > be loaded by a package or class > > * tex-ignorants will not be helped with "OT1". > > > > I'd prefer something such as "Class Defaults" I think that the old "None (no fontenc)" was more than adequate. This tells that *LyX* is not going to select any encoding. > > My incentive was to clear the confusion with > > != > > in a GUI dialog where otherwise "Default" stands for . > > > > > I understand your rationale, and agree. For that goal, I would have suggested to simply change "Default" to "LyX Default". I don't have any idea of what is meant for "Global Default". Such controversial changes should not be performed without discussion. -- Enrico
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
2016-10-21 11:43 GMT+02:00 Guenter Milde: > Would it help to remove just the "OT1" leaving "TeX default, no fontenc"? > * texperts know the TeX default is OT1 > * texpert know the default can be changed and fontenc (as any package) can > be loaded by a package or class > * tex-ignorants will not be helped with "OT1". > I'd prefer something such as "Class Defaults" (note that we are using title casing in this context) > > My incentive was to clear the confusion with > != > in a GUI dialog where otherwise "Default" stands for . > I understand your rationale, and agree. Jürgen > > Maybe there is a better suggestion... > > Thanks, > Günter > >
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Dear Jürgen, dear LyX developers, On 2016-10-21, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: quoted-printable --] > Am Freitag, den 21.10.2016, 09:12 +0200 schrieb Günter Milde: >> + fontModule->fontencCO->addItem(qt_("TeX default (OT1, no >> fontenc)"), QString("default")); > That's not necessarily true. It just means "don't load fontenc > explicitly". The class (or a package) might load fontenc with something > else than OT1. > So the old string was more adequate. We are in a predicament here: a) fontenc=="default" ensures that LyX does not load fontenc.sty, even if LGR or T2A font encodings are required for Greek or Cyrillic letters. b) you are right, the user preamble, a class or module may change the font encoding (with or without loading fontenc). The situation is equivalent to "Default" font settings - LyX does not load a font package or modify \rmdefault etc. Unfortunately, the old strings used "Default" for "global Default" (which defaults to T1 and not the LaTeX default). Would it help to remove just the "OT1" leaving "TeX default, no fontenc"? * texperts know the TeX default is OT1 * texpert know the default can be changed and fontenc (as any package) can be loaded by a package or class * tex-ignorants will not be helped with "OT1". My incentive was to clear the confusion with != in a GUI dialog where otherwise "Default" stands for . Maybe there is a better suggestion... Thanks, Günter
Re: [LyX/master] Fix Ticket #9741 misleading name for font-encoding setting "default".
Am Freitag, den 21.10.2016, 09:12 +0200 schrieb Günter Milde: > + fontModule->fontencCO->addItem(qt_("TeX default (OT1, no > fontenc)"), QString("default")); That's not necessarily true. It just means "don't load fontenc explicitly". The class (or a package) might load fontenc with something else than OT1. So the old string was more adequate. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part