Re: Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')
On Apr 8, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: Hey Bruce On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote: Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or Renaissance As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino, hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else) provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but couldn't find anything. Given that Aldus is a more book-friendly version of Palatino, it's odd that it isn't better known and more often used. I too cannot find a free clone of Aldus. Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque [3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance? [2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/ [3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/ [4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more [5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/ URW Antigua, to my untrained eye, looks very little like Renaisssance. I'm afraid I don't know about any free clones of Renaissance. -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every postscript printer, like Palatino. Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans complement to Palatino. [1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico Another possibility would be Syntax, designed by Hans Eduard Meier. http://new.myfonts.com/search/syntax/fonts/ but again, there may be no free clone. My bible for all things typographic is Robert Bringhurst, The Elements of Typographic Style, now in its third edition. Bruce For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf Chancery, a calligraphical font. [6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/ Regards Liviu
Re: Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')
On Apr 8, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: Hey Bruce On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote: Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or Renaissance As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino, hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else) provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but couldn't find anything. Given that Aldus is a more book-friendly version of Palatino, it's odd that it isn't better known and more often used. I too cannot find a free clone of Aldus. Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque [3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance? [2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/ [3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/ [4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more [5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/ URW Antigua, to my untrained eye, looks very little like Renaisssance. I'm afraid I don't know about any free clones of Renaissance. -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every postscript printer, like Palatino. Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans complement to Palatino. [1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico Another possibility would be Syntax, designed by Hans Eduard Meier. http://new.myfonts.com/search/syntax/fonts/ but again, there may be no free clone. My bible for all things typographic is Robert Bringhurst, The Elements of Typographic Style, now in its third edition. Bruce For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf Chancery, a calligraphical font. [6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/ Regards Liviu
Re: Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')
On Apr 8, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote: Hey Bruce On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciauwrote: Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or Renaissance As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino, hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else) provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but couldn't find anything. Given that Aldus is a more book-friendly version of Palatino, it's odd that it isn't better known and more often used. I too cannot find a free clone of Aldus. Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque [3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance? [2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/ [3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/ [4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more [5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/ URW Antigua, to my untrained eye, looks very little like Renaisssance. I'm afraid I don't know about any free clones of Renaissance. -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every postscript printer, like Palatino. Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans complement to Palatino. [1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico Another possibility would be Syntax, designed by Hans Eduard Meier. http://new.myfonts.com/search/syntax/fonts/ but again, there may be no free clone. My bible for all things typographic is Robert Bringhurst, The Elements of Typographic Style, now in its third edition. Bruce For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf Chancery, a calligraphical font. [6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/ Regards Liviu
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: Dear list members, I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. in ff, fi, ...). Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. Looking at the URW Palladio font in my font-viewer (fontmatrix), I see that there is no ff ligature and that the fi and fl ligatures are faked (i.e. just two letters side by side). Looking at the TeX Gyre Termes system font with fontmatrix, I see all T1 ligatures but with a clearly separated fi (also in ffi) while, in contrast to URW Palladio, the ff has a common bar (also in ffi and ffl). Looking at the Palatino font sample chart in the TeX Font Catalogue, I see on page 2 the font table containing all ligatures required by the T1 font encoding -- but again faked (most probably via a virtual font). IAW - Palatino does not have ligatures and whatever appears as such is only a compatibility version filling the slot. However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't these ligatures? This are rather input conventions for \textendash and \textemdash (ab)using the ligature mechanism in TeX's tfm files. What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and I came across this message: http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant. There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially, considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to the palatino/mathpazo packages. Günter
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: Liviu Andronic wrote: On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff. Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? It does not supersede mathpazo: * tgpagella is not a TeX standard package: I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... * tgpagella and mathpazo have different small caps versions. Opinions differ on which is better but seems to be biased towards the mathpazo ones. * tgpagella does not set up math fonts (there is an experimental qpxmath package for this task). OTOH, adding GUI support for TeX Gyre and other widely used fonts is on the LyX feature-wish list since long... Günter
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Guenter Milde wrote: Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially, considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to the palatino/mathpazo packages. Guenter, Thank you. Back to reality: it really does not matter because 1) I suspect that no one reading any document I produce with LyX will be looking for true ligatures and 2) almost everyone else but us rebels here uses Wurd and the only ligatures there are those placed by Microsoft on users and their wallets. Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Apr 8, 2011, at 1:31 AM, Guenter Milde wrote: Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times, as the default typeface. Not only then would documents all around the world have a more beautiful face, but they'd be sprinkled with elegance fi ffi fl rather than littered with collisions fi ffi fl Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or Renaissance -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every postscript printer, like Palatino. Bruce
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Bruce Pourciau wrote: This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times, Bruce, They either use Times or the default san-serif face as a body text font. Ugly and hard to read. It has fascinated me how those in the Microsoft world stick with whatever defaults are set by the OS and applications on it and never think to change them. About 20 years ago I worked for a consulting company and we were quite progressive: we all had PCs running DOS and WordPerfect on our desks. I immediately changed the WP display from bright white on blue to grey on black (much easier on my eyes). Others would walk by and comment, Wow! How'd you do that? Of course, no one changed a darn thing on their machines, but they sure specified exactly how a document had to be formatted before it left the office. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Rich
Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')
Hey Bruce On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote: Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or Renaissance As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino, hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else) provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but couldn't find anything. Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque [3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance? [2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/ [3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/ [4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more [5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/ -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every postscript printer, like Palatino. Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans complement to Palatino. [1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf Chancery, a calligraphical font. [6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/ Regards Liviu
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: Dear list members, I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. in ff, fi, ...). Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. Looking at the URW Palladio font in my font-viewer (fontmatrix), I see that there is no ff ligature and that the fi and fl ligatures are faked (i.e. just two letters side by side). Looking at the TeX Gyre Termes system font with fontmatrix, I see all T1 ligatures but with a clearly separated fi (also in ffi) while, in contrast to URW Palladio, the ff has a common bar (also in ffi and ffl). Looking at the Palatino font sample chart in the TeX Font Catalogue, I see on page 2 the font table containing all ligatures required by the T1 font encoding -- but again faked (most probably via a virtual font). IAW - Palatino does not have ligatures and whatever appears as such is only a compatibility version filling the slot. However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't these ligatures? This are rather input conventions for \textendash and \textemdash (ab)using the ligature mechanism in TeX's tfm files. What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and I came across this message: http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant. There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially, considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to the palatino/mathpazo packages. Günter
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: Liviu Andronic wrote: On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff. Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? It does not supersede mathpazo: * tgpagella is not a TeX standard package: I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... * tgpagella and mathpazo have different small caps versions. Opinions differ on which is better but seems to be biased towards the mathpazo ones. * tgpagella does not set up math fonts (there is an experimental qpxmath package for this task). OTOH, adding GUI support for TeX Gyre and other widely used fonts is on the LyX feature-wish list since long... Günter
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Guenter Milde wrote: Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially, considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to the palatino/mathpazo packages. Guenter, Thank you. Back to reality: it really does not matter because 1) I suspect that no one reading any document I produce with LyX will be looking for true ligatures and 2) almost everyone else but us rebels here uses Wurd and the only ligatures there are those placed by Microsoft on users and their wallets. Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Apr 8, 2011, at 1:31 AM, Guenter Milde wrote: Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times, as the default typeface. Not only then would documents all around the world have a more beautiful face, but they'd be sprinkled with elegance fi ffi fl rather than littered with collisions fi ffi fl Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or Renaissance -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every postscript printer, like Palatino. Bruce
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Bruce Pourciau wrote: This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times, Bruce, They either use Times or the default san-serif face as a body text font. Ugly and hard to read. It has fascinated me how those in the Microsoft world stick with whatever defaults are set by the OS and applications on it and never think to change them. About 20 years ago I worked for a consulting company and we were quite progressive: we all had PCs running DOS and WordPerfect on our desks. I immediately changed the WP display from bright white on blue to grey on black (much easier on my eyes). Others would walk by and comment, Wow! How'd you do that? Of course, no one changed a darn thing on their machines, but they sure specified exactly how a document had to be formatted before it left the office. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Rich
Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')
Hey Bruce On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote: Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or Renaissance As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino, hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else) provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but couldn't find anything. Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque [3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance? [2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/ [3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/ [4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more [5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/ -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every postscript printer, like Palatino. Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans complement to Palatino. [1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf Chancery, a calligraphical font. [6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/ Regards Liviu
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: > Dear list members, > I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently > noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. > in ff, fi, ...). Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. Looking at the URW Palladio font in my font-viewer (fontmatrix), I see that there is no ff ligature and that the fi and fl ligatures are "faked" (i.e. just two letters side by side). Looking at the TeX Gyre Termes system font with fontmatrix, I see all "T1 ligatures" but with a clearly separated fi (also in ffi) while, in contrast to URW Palladio, the ff has a common bar (also in ffi and ffl). Looking at the Palatino font sample chart in the TeX Font Catalogue, I see on page 2 the font table containing all ligatures required by the T1 font encoding -- but again "faked" (most probably via a virtual font). IAW - Palatino does not have ligatures and whatever appears as such is only a compatibility version filling the slot. > However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't > these "ligatures"? This are rather input conventions for \textendash and \textemdash (ab)using the ligature mechanism in TeX's tfm files. > What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and > I came across this message: > http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html > ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant. There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially, considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to the palatino/mathpazo packages. Günter
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: > Liviu Andronic wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENTwrote: > ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked "ff". > Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for > Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? It does not supersede mathpazo: * tgpagella is not a TeX standard package: > I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... * tgpagella and mathpazo have different small caps versions. Opinions differ on which is better but seems to be biased towards the mathpazo ones. * tgpagella does not set up math fonts (there is an "experimental" qpxmath package for this task). OTOH, adding GUI support for TeX Gyre and other widely used fonts is on the LyX feature-wish list since long... Günter
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Guenter Milde wrote: Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially, considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to the palatino/mathpazo packages. Guenter, Thank you. Back to reality: it really does not matter because 1) I suspect that no one reading any document I produce with LyX will be looking for true ligatures and 2) almost everyone else but us rebels here uses Wurd and the only ligatures there are those placed by Microsoft on users and their wallets. Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Apr 8, 2011, at 1:31 AM, Guenter Milde wrote: Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times, as the default typeface. Not only then would documents all around the world have a more beautiful face, but they'd be sprinkled with elegance fi ffi fl rather than littered with collisions fi ffi fl Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or Renaissance -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every postscript printer, like Palatino. Bruce
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Bruce Pourciau wrote: This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times, Bruce, They either use Times or the default san-serif face as a body text font. Ugly and hard to read. It has fascinated me how those in the Microsoft world stick with whatever defaults are set by the OS and applications on it and never think to change them. About 20 years ago I worked for a consulting company and we were quite progressive: we all had PCs running DOS and WordPerfect on our desks. I immediately changed the WP display from bright white on blue to grey on black (much easier on my eyes). Others would walk by and comment, "Wow! How'd you do that?" Of course, no one changed a darn thing on their machines, but they sure specified exactly how a document had to be formatted before it left the office. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Rich
Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')
Hey Bruce On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciauwrote: > Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or > Renaissance > As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino, hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else) provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but couldn't find anything. Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque [3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance? [2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/ [3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/ [4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more [5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/ > -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every > postscript printer, like Palatino. > Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans complement to Palatino. [1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf Chancery, a calligraphical font. [6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/ Regards Liviu
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Dear list members, I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. in ff, fi, ...). Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2). Regards Liviu However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't these ligatures? What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and I came across this message: http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant. I hope it's not a FAQ. Once again, thanks for your help. -- Daniel CLEMENT -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail newfile4.lyx Description: Binary data newfile4.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
First, thanks for your reply. Liviu Andronic wrote: [...] I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. in ff, fi, ...). Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2). Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or ffi. (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? Regards Liviu [...] Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or ffi. (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no ligature for 'fi'. Regards Liviu Regards Liviu [...] Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
Thanks, that did the trick. I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... Liviu Andronic wrote: On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or ffi. (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff. Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no ligature for 'fi'. This probably makes sense, since the hook of the f is very short in Palatino... Regards Liviu [...] Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Thanks, that did the trick. I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... Liviu Andronic wrote: On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or ffi. (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff. Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no ligature for 'fi'. This probably makes sense, since the hook of the f is very short in Palatino... See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ Liviu Regards Liviu [...] Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ Liviu, Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi). Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com wrote: On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ Liviu, Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi). Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. Cheers Liviu attachment: palatino-ligs.pngattachment: tgpagella-ligs.png
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. Liviu, Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x. OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it. Thanks, Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com wrote: On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. Liviu, Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x. You can enlarge the bitmaps using Mirage. But if you're playing with the PDF files, here in Evince even at 400% there's a (hardly, but) noticeable white pixel in 'fi' for both Palladio and Pagella, and a clear distance in the Palladio 'ff'. The Pagella 'ff' ligature is clear-cut. OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it. Have fun. Liviu Thanks, Rich -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Dear list members, I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. in ff, fi, ...). Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2). Regards Liviu However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't these ligatures? What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and I came across this message: http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant. I hope it's not a FAQ. Once again, thanks for your help. -- Daniel CLEMENT -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail newfile4.lyx Description: Binary data newfile4.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
First, thanks for your reply. Liviu Andronic wrote: [...] I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. in ff, fi, ...). Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2). Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or ffi. (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? Regards Liviu [...] Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or ffi. (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no ligature for 'fi'. Regards Liviu Regards Liviu [...] Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
Thanks, that did the trick. I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... Liviu Andronic wrote: On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or ffi. (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff. Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no ligature for 'fi'. This probably makes sense, since the hook of the f is very short in Palatino... Regards Liviu [...] Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Thanks, that did the trick. I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... Liviu Andronic wrote: On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote: Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or ffi. (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff. Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no ligature for 'fi'. This probably makes sense, since the hook of the f is very short in Palatino... See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ Liviu Regards Liviu [...] Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ Liviu, Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi). Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com wrote: On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ Liviu, Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi). Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. Cheers Liviu attachment: palatino-ligs.pngattachment: tgpagella-ligs.png
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. Liviu, Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x. OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it. Thanks, Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com wrote: On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. Liviu, Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x. You can enlarge the bitmaps using Mirage. But if you're playing with the PDF files, here in Evince even at 400% there's a (hardly, but) noticeable white pixel in 'fi' for both Palladio and Pagella, and a clear distance in the Palladio 'ff'. The Pagella 'ff' ligature is clear-cut. OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it. Have fun. Liviu Thanks, Rich -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel CLEMENTwrote: > Dear list members, > > I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently > noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. > in ff, fi, ...). > Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2). Regards Liviu > However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't > these "ligatures"? > > What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and > I came across this message: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html > > ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant. > > I hope it's not a FAQ. Once again, thanks for your help. > -- > Daniel CLEMENT > > > > > > > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail newfile4.lyx Description: Binary data newfile4.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
First, thanks for your reply. Liviu Andronic wrote: [...] > > I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently > > noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g. > > in ff, fi, ...). > > > Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a > Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2). Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two "ff" (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). However, I don't see any ligature between "f" and "i", either in "fi" or "ffi". (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / Evince)? > > Regards > Liviu > > > [...] > Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENTwrote: > Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two > "ff" (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). > > However, I don't see any ligature between "f" and "i", either in "fi" or > "ffi". > > (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) > Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. > Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / > Evince)? > On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no ligature for 'fi'. Regards Liviu >> >> Regards >> Liviu >> >> >> [...] >> > Regards, > -- > Daniel CLEMENT > > > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
Thanks, that did the trick. I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... Liviu Andronic wrote: > On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENTwrote: > > Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two > > "ff" (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). > > > > However, I don't see any ligature between "f" and "i", either in "fi" or > > "ffi". > > > > (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) > > > Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked "ff". Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? > > > > Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / > > Evince)? > > > On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no > ligature for 'fi'. This probably makes sense, since the hook of the "f" is very short in Palatino... > Regards > Liviu > [...] > Regards, -- Daniel CLEMENT
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel CLEMENTwrote: > Thanks, that did the trick. > > I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then... > > Liviu Andronic wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT wrote: >> > Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two >> > "ff" (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have). >> > >> > However, I don't see any ligature between "f" and "i", either in "fi" or >> > "ffi". >> > >> > (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.) >> > >> Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble. > > ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked "ff". > > Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for > Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo? > >> >> >> > Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid / >> > Evince)? >> > >> On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no >> ligature for 'fi'. > > This probably makes sense, since the hook of the "f" is very short in > Palatino... > See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ Liviu >> Regards >> Liviu >> > [...] >> > Regards, > -- > Daniel CLEMENT > > > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ Liviu, Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi). Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Rich Shepardwrote: > On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: > >> See [1] for the list of expected ligatures. >> [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/ > > Liviu, > > Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures > in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the > standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi). > Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less "ligature pixels" than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. Cheers Liviu <><>
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less "ligature pixels" than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. Liviu, Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x. OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it. Thanks, Rich
Re: No ligatures in Palatino?
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Rich Shepardwrote: > On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote: > >> Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will >> clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less "ligature >> pixels" than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the >> 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature, >> while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol. > > Liviu, > > Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x. > You can enlarge the bitmaps using Mirage. But if you're playing with the PDF files, here in Evince even at 400% there's a (hardly, but) noticeable white pixel in 'fi' for both Palladio and Pagella, and a clear distance in the Palladio 'ff'. The Pagella 'ff' ligature is clear-cut. > OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it. > Have fun. Liviu > Thanks, > > Rich > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail