Re: Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 8, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:


Hey Bruce

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau
bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as  
Aldus or

Renaissance


As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino,
hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else)
provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but
couldn't find anything.


Given that Aldus is a more book-friendly version of Palatino, it's odd  
that it isn't better known and more often used. I too cannot find a  
free clone of Aldus.




Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of
Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque
[3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance?
[2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/
[3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/
[4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more
[5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/


URW Antigua, to my untrained eye, looks very little like Renaisssance.  
I'm afraid I don't know about any free clones of Renaissance.






-- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every
postscript printer, like Palatino.


Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans
complement to Palatino.
[1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico


Another possibility would be Syntax, designed by Hans Eduard Meier.

http://new.myfonts.com/search/syntax/fonts/

but again, there may be no free clone.

My bible for all things typographic is

Robert Bringhurst, The Elements of Typographic Style, now in its third  
edition.


Bruce



For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX
there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf
Chancery, a calligraphical font.
[6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/

Regards
Liviu

Re: Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 8, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:


Hey Bruce

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau
bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as  
Aldus or

Renaissance


As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino,
hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else)
provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but
couldn't find anything.


Given that Aldus is a more book-friendly version of Palatino, it's odd  
that it isn't better known and more often used. I too cannot find a  
free clone of Aldus.




Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of
Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque
[3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance?
[2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/
[3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/
[4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more
[5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/


URW Antigua, to my untrained eye, looks very little like Renaisssance.  
I'm afraid I don't know about any free clones of Renaissance.






-- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every
postscript printer, like Palatino.


Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans
complement to Palatino.
[1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico


Another possibility would be Syntax, designed by Hans Eduard Meier.

http://new.myfonts.com/search/syntax/fonts/

but again, there may be no free clone.

My bible for all things typographic is

Robert Bringhurst, The Elements of Typographic Style, now in its third  
edition.


Bruce



For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX
there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf
Chancery, a calligraphical font.
[6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/

Regards
Liviu

Re: Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 8, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:


Hey Bruce

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau
 wrote:
Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as  
Aldus or

Renaissance


As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino,
hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else)
provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but
couldn't find anything.


Given that Aldus is a more book-friendly version of Palatino, it's odd  
that it isn't better known and more often used. I too cannot find a  
free clone of Aldus.




Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of
Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque
[3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance?
[2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/
[3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/
[4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more
[5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/


URW Antigua, to my untrained eye, looks very little like Renaisssance.  
I'm afraid I don't know about any free clones of Renaissance.






-- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every
postscript printer, like Palatino.


Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans
complement to Palatino.
[1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico


Another possibility would be Syntax, designed by Hans Eduard Meier.

http://new.myfonts.com/search/syntax/fonts/

but again, there may be no free clone.

My bible for all things typographic is

Robert Bringhurst, The Elements of Typographic Style, now in its third  
edition.


Bruce



For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX
there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf
Chancery, a calligraphical font.
[6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/

Regards
Liviu

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote:
 Dear list members,

 I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
 noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
 in ff, fi, ...).

Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. 

Looking at the URW Palladio font in my font-viewer (fontmatrix), I see that
there is no ff ligature and that the fi and fl ligatures are faked
(i.e. just two letters side by side).

Looking at the TeX Gyre Termes system font with fontmatrix, I see all T1
ligatures but with a clearly separated fi (also in ffi) while, in
contrast to URW Palladio, the ff has a common bar (also in ffi and ffl).

Looking at the Palatino font sample chart in the TeX Font Catalogue, I
see on page 2 the font table containing all ligatures required by the T1
font encoding -- but again faked (most probably via a virtual font).

IAW - Palatino does not have ligatures and whatever appears as such is
only a compatibility version filling the slot.


 However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't
 these ligatures?

This are rather input conventions for \textendash and \textemdash (ab)using
the ligature mechanism in TeX's tfm files.

 What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and
 I came across this message:

 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html

 ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant.

There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially,
considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of
unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to
the palatino/mathpazo packages.

Günter

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote:
 Liviu Andronic wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:

 ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff.

 Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
 Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?

It does not supersede mathpazo:

* tgpagella is not a TeX standard package:

   I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...

* tgpagella and mathpazo have different small caps versions. Opinions
  differ on which is better but seems to be biased towards the mathpazo
  ones.
  
* tgpagella does not set up math fonts (there is an experimental
  qpxmath package for this task).
  
OTOH, adding GUI support for TeX Gyre and other widely used fonts is on
the LyX feature-wish list since long...

Günter

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Guenter Milde wrote:


Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design.



There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially,
considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of
unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to
the palatino/mathpazo packages.


Guenter,

  Thank you. Back to reality: it really does not matter because 1) I suspect
that no one reading any document I produce with LyX will be looking for true
ligatures and 2) almost everyone else but us rebels here uses Wurd and the
only ligatures there are those placed by Microsoft on users and their
wallets.

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 8, 2011, at 1:31 AM, Guenter Milde wrote:


Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design.



This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would  
be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than  
Times, as the default typeface. Not only then would documents all  
around the world have a more beautiful face, but they'd be sprinkled  
with elegance


fi ffi fl

rather than littered with collisions

fi ffi fl

Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus  
or Renaissance -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of  
every postscript printer, like Palatino.


Bruce

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Bruce Pourciau wrote:

This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a 
prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times,


Bruce,

  They either use Times or the default san-serif face as a body text font.
Ugly and hard to read.

  It has fascinated me how those in the Microsoft world stick with whatever
defaults are set by the OS and applications on it and never think to change
them.

  About 20 years ago I worked for a consulting company and we were quite
progressive: we all had PCs running DOS and WordPerfect on our desks. I
immediately changed the WP display from bright white on blue to grey on
black (much easier on my eyes). Others would walk by and comment, Wow!
How'd you do that? Of course, no one changed a darn thing on their
machines, but they sure specified exactly how a document had to be formatted
before it left the office.

  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Rich

Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')

[Liviu Andronic]

Hey Bruce

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau
bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
 Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or
 Renaissance

As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino,
hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else)
provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but
couldn't find anything.

Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of
Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque
[3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance?
[2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/
[3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/
[4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more
[5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/


 -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every
 postscript printer, like Palatino.

Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans
complement to Palatino.
[1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico

For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX
there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf
Chancery, a calligraphical font.
[6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/

Regards
Liviu

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote:
 Dear list members,

 I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
 noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
 in ff, fi, ...).

Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. 

Looking at the URW Palladio font in my font-viewer (fontmatrix), I see that
there is no ff ligature and that the fi and fl ligatures are faked
(i.e. just two letters side by side).

Looking at the TeX Gyre Termes system font with fontmatrix, I see all T1
ligatures but with a clearly separated fi (also in ffi) while, in
contrast to URW Palladio, the ff has a common bar (also in ffi and ffl).

Looking at the Palatino font sample chart in the TeX Font Catalogue, I
see on page 2 the font table containing all ligatures required by the T1
font encoding -- but again faked (most probably via a virtual font).

IAW - Palatino does not have ligatures and whatever appears as such is
only a compatibility version filling the slot.


 However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't
 these ligatures?

This are rather input conventions for \textendash and \textemdash (ab)using
the ligature mechanism in TeX's tfm files.

 What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and
 I came across this message:

 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html

 ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant.

There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially,
considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of
unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to
the palatino/mathpazo packages.

Günter

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote:
 Liviu Andronic wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:

 ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff.

 Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
 Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?

It does not supersede mathpazo:

* tgpagella is not a TeX standard package:

   I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...

* tgpagella and mathpazo have different small caps versions. Opinions
  differ on which is better but seems to be biased towards the mathpazo
  ones.
  
* tgpagella does not set up math fonts (there is an experimental
  qpxmath package for this task).
  
OTOH, adding GUI support for TeX Gyre and other widely used fonts is on
the LyX feature-wish list since long...

Günter

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Guenter Milde wrote:


Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design.



There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially,
considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of
unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to
the palatino/mathpazo packages.


Guenter,

  Thank you. Back to reality: it really does not matter because 1) I suspect
that no one reading any document I produce with LyX will be looking for true
ligatures and 2) almost everyone else but us rebels here uses Wurd and the
only ligatures there are those placed by Microsoft on users and their
wallets.

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 8, 2011, at 1:31 AM, Guenter Milde wrote:


Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design.



This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would  
be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than  
Times, as the default typeface. Not only then would documents all  
around the world have a more beautiful face, but they'd be sprinkled  
with elegance


fi ffi fl

rather than littered with collisions

fi ffi fl

Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus  
or Renaissance -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of  
every postscript printer, like Palatino.


Bruce

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Bruce Pourciau wrote:

This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a 
prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times,


Bruce,

  They either use Times or the default san-serif face as a body text font.
Ugly and hard to read.

  It has fascinated me how those in the Microsoft world stick with whatever
defaults are set by the OS and applications on it and never think to change
them.

  About 20 years ago I worked for a consulting company and we were quite
progressive: we all had PCs running DOS and WordPerfect on our desks. I
immediately changed the WP display from bright white on blue to grey on
black (much easier on my eyes). Others would walk by and comment, Wow!
How'd you do that? Of course, no one changed a darn thing on their
machines, but they sure specified exactly how a document had to be formatted
before it left the office.

  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Rich

Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')

[Liviu Andronic]

Hey Bruce

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau
bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
 Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or
 Renaissance

As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino,
hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else)
provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but
couldn't find anything.

Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of
Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque
[3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance?
[2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/
[3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/
[4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more
[5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/


 -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every
 postscript printer, like Palatino.

Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans
complement to Palatino.
[1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico

For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX
there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf
Chancery, a calligraphical font.
[6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/

Regards
Liviu

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote:
> Dear list members,

> I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
> noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
> in ff, fi, ...).

Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design. 

Looking at the URW Palladio font in my font-viewer (fontmatrix), I see that
there is no ff ligature and that the fi and fl ligatures are "faked"
(i.e. just two letters side by side).

Looking at the TeX Gyre Termes system font with fontmatrix, I see all "T1
ligatures" but with a clearly separated fi (also in ffi) while, in
contrast to URW Palladio, the ff has a common bar (also in ffi and ffl).

Looking at the Palatino font sample chart in the TeX Font Catalogue, I
see on page 2 the font table containing all ligatures required by the T1
font encoding -- but again "faked" (most probably via a virtual font).

IAW - Palatino does not have ligatures and whatever appears as such is
only a compatibility version filling the slot.


> However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't
> these "ligatures"?

This are rather input conventions for \textendash and \textemdash (ab)using
the ligature mechanism in TeX's tfm files.

> What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and
> I came across this message:

> http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html

> ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant.

There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially,
considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of
unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to
the palatino/mathpazo packages.

Günter

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-07, Daniel CLEMENT wrote:
> Liviu Andronic wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT  wrote:

> ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked "ff".

> Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
> Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?

It does not supersede mathpazo:

* tgpagella is not a TeX standard package:

  > I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...

* tgpagella and mathpazo have different small caps versions. Opinions
  differ on which is better but seems to be biased towards the mathpazo
  ones.
  
* tgpagella does not set up math fonts (there is an "experimental"
  qpxmath package for this task).
  
OTOH, adding GUI support for TeX Gyre and other widely used fonts is on
the LyX feature-wish list since long...

Günter

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Guenter Milde wrote:


Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design.



There is not much change in the standard Postscript fonts. Especially,
considering the emphasis that TeX puts on consistent rendering of
unchanged documents, there will be no change without a new option to
the palatino/mathpazo packages.


Guenter,

  Thank you. Back to reality: it really does not matter because 1) I suspect
that no one reading any document I produce with LyX will be looking for true
ligatures and 2) almost everyone else but us rebels here uses Wurd and the
only ligatures there are those placed by Microsoft on users and their
wallets.

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Apr 8, 2011, at 1:31 AM, Guenter Milde wrote:


Because there are no ligatures in Palatino -- by design.



This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would  
be a prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than  
Times, as the default typeface. Not only then would documents all  
around the world have a more beautiful face, but they'd be sprinkled  
with elegance


fi ffi fl

rather than littered with collisions

fi ffi fl

Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus  
or Renaissance -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of  
every postscript printer, like Palatino.


Bruce

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Bruce Pourciau wrote:

This is one of the many, many reasons why the typographic world would be a 
prettier place if Word folks would use Palatino, rather than Times,


Bruce,

  They either use Times or the default san-serif face as a body text font.
Ugly and hard to read.

  It has fascinated me how those in the Microsoft world stick with whatever
defaults are set by the OS and applications on it and never think to change
them.

  About 20 years ago I worked for a consulting company and we were quite
progressive: we all had PCs running DOS and WordPerfect on our desks. I
immediately changed the WP display from bright white on blue to grey on
black (much easier on my eyes). Others would walk by and comment, "Wow!
How'd you do that?" Of course, no one changed a darn thing on their
machines, but they sure specified exactly how a document had to be formatted
before it left the office.

  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Rich

Zapf typefaces in LaTeX (was: 'Re: No ligatures in Palatino?')

[Liviu Andronic]

Hey Bruce

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Bruce Pourciau
 wrote:
> Other faces designed by Herman Zapf would do as well -- such as Aldus or
> Renaissance
>
As far as I understand, Aldus is a book weight version of Palatino,
hence more readable. Do you know if URW++ or TeX Gyre (or anyone else)
provide a free clone? I searched all places that I could think of, but
couldn't find anything.

Also, could you please confirm if URW Antiqua [2] is _not_ a clone of
Zapf Renaissance Antiqua [5]? The former complements [4] URW Grotesque
[3]. If so, are you aware of a free clone of Renaissance?
[2] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/antiqua/
[3] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/grotesk/
[4] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/antiqua/?more
[5] http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/zapf-renaissance-antiqua/


> -- except that they aren't burned into the memory of every
> postscript printer, like Palatino.
>
Personally I like to use another Zapf design, Optima [1], as a sans
complement to Palatino.
[1] http://ctan.org/pkg/classico

For those interested, from the Zapf series freely available in LaTeX
there's also URW Chancery and TeX Gyre Chorus [6], both clones of Zapf
Chancery, a calligraphical font.
[6] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/tgchorus/

Regards
Liviu

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
 Dear list members,

 I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
 noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
 in ff, fi, ...).

Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a
Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2).

Regards
Liviu


 However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't
 these ligatures?

 What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and
 I came across this message:

 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html

 ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant.

 I hope it's not a FAQ. Once again, thanks for your help.
 --
 Daniel CLEMENT










-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
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newfile4.lyx
Description: Binary data


newfile4.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Daniel CLEMENT]

First, thanks for your reply.

Liviu Andronic wrote:
[...]
  I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
  noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
  in ff, fi, ...).
 
 Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a
 Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2).

Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).

However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or
ffi.

(I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)

Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
Evince)?

 
 Regards
 Liviu
 
 
 [...]
 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
 Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
 ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).

 However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or
 ffi.

 (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)

Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.


 Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
 Evince)?

On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
ligature for 'fi'. Regards
Liviu



 Regards
 Liviu


 [...]

 Regards,
 --
 Daniel CLEMENT






-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Daniel CLEMENT]

Thanks, that did the trick.

I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...

Liviu Andronic wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
  Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
  ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).
 
  However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or
  ffi.
 
  (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)
 
 Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.

... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff.

Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?

 
 
  Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
  Evince)?
 
 On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
 ligature for 'fi'. 

This probably makes sense, since the hook of the f is very short in
Palatino...

 Regards
 Liviu
 
[...]
 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
 Thanks, that did the trick.

 I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...

 Liviu Andronic wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
  Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
  ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).
 
  However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or
  ffi.
 
  (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)
 
 Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.

 ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff.

 Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
 Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?



  Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
  Evince)?
 
 On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
 ligature for 'fi'.

 This probably makes sense, since the hook of the f is very short in
 Palatino...

See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
[1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/

Liviu



 Regards
 Liviu

 [...]

 Regards,
 --
 Daniel CLEMENT






-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:


See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
[1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/


Liviu,

  Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures
in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the
standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi).

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com wrote:
 On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:

 See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
 [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/

 Liviu,

  Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures
 in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the
 standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi).

Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you
will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less
ligature pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black
line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the
'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi'
symbol.

Cheers
Liviu
attachment: palatino-ligs.pngattachment: tgpagella-ligs.png

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:


Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will
clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature
pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the
'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature,
while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol.


Liviu,

  Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x.

  OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it.

Thanks,

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com wrote:
 On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:

 Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will
 clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature
 pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the
 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature,
 while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol.

 Liviu,

  Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x.

You can enlarge the bitmaps using Mirage. But if you're playing with
the PDF files, here in Evince even at 400% there's a (hardly, but)
noticeable white pixel in 'fi' for both Palladio and Pagella, and a
clear distance in the Palladio 'ff'. The Pagella 'ff' ligature is
clear-cut.

  OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it.

Have fun.
Liviu


 Thanks,

 Rich




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
 Dear list members,

 I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
 noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
 in ff, fi, ...).

Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a
Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2).

Regards
Liviu


 However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't
 these ligatures?

 What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and
 I came across this message:

 http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html

 ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant.

 I hope it's not a FAQ. Once again, thanks for your help.
 --
 Daniel CLEMENT










-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail


newfile4.lyx
Description: Binary data


newfile4.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Daniel CLEMENT]

First, thanks for your reply.

Liviu Andronic wrote:
[...]
  I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
  noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
  in ff, fi, ...).
 
 Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a
 Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2).

Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).

However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or
ffi.

(I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)

Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
Evince)?

 
 Regards
 Liviu
 
 
 [...]
 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
 Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
 ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).

 However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or
 ffi.

 (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)

Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.


 Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
 Evince)?

On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
ligature for 'fi'. Regards
Liviu



 Regards
 Liviu


 [...]

 Regards,
 --
 Daniel CLEMENT






-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Daniel CLEMENT]

Thanks, that did the trick.

I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...

Liviu Andronic wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
  Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
  ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).
 
  However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or
  ffi.
 
  (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)
 
 Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.

... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff.

Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?

 
 
  Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
  Evince)?
 
 On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
 ligature for 'fi'. 

This probably makes sense, since the hook of the f is very short in
Palatino...

 Regards
 Liviu
 
[...]
 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
 Thanks, that did the trick.

 I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...

 Liviu Andronic wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT dcleme...@sfr.fr wrote:
  Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
  ff (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).
 
  However, I don't see any ligature between f and i, either in fi or
  ffi.
 
  (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)
 
 Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.

 ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked ff.

 Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
 Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?



  Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
  Evince)?
 
 On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
 ligature for 'fi'.

 This probably makes sense, since the hook of the f is very short in
 Palatino...

See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
[1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/

Liviu



 Regards
 Liviu

 [...]

 Regards,
 --
 Daniel CLEMENT






-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:


See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
[1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/


Liviu,

  Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures
in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the
standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi).

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com wrote:
 On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:

 See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
 [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/

 Liviu,

  Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures
 in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the
 standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi).

Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you
will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less
ligature pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black
line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the
'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi'
symbol.

Cheers
Liviu
attachment: palatino-ligs.pngattachment: tgpagella-ligs.png

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:


Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will
clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature
pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the
'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature,
while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol.


Liviu,

  Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x.

  OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it.

Thanks,

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com wrote:
 On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:

 Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will
 clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less ligature
 pixels than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the
 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature,
 while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol.

 Liviu,

  Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x.

You can enlarge the bitmaps using Mirage. But if you're playing with
the PDF files, here in Evince even at 400% there's a (hardly, but)
noticeable white pixel in 'fi' for both Palladio and Pagella, and a
clear distance in the Palladio 'ff'. The Pagella 'ff' ligature is
clear-cut.

  OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it.

Have fun.
Liviu


 Thanks,

 Rich




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Daniel CLEMENT  wrote:
> Dear list members,
>
> I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
> noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
> in ff, fi, ...).
>
Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a
Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2).

Regards
Liviu


> However, the various dashes (--, ---) do get linked properly. Aren't
> these "ligatures"?
>
> What do you think of this? I searched the WiKi and the list archive, and
> I came across this message:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg45849.html
>
> ...but it's pretty old, and perhaps no longer relevant.
>
> I hope it's not a FAQ. Once again, thanks for your help.
> --
> Daniel CLEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail


newfile4.lyx
Description: Binary data


newfile4.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Daniel CLEMENT]

First, thanks for your reply.

Liviu Andronic wrote:
[...]
> > I have been using the palatino font for a while. But I only recently
> > noticed that, in documents using this font, no ligatures appeared (e.g.
> > in ff, fi, ...).
> >
> Not an expert, but they seem to appear when using TeX Gyre Pagella, a
> Palatino clone. See attached (docs created in RC2).

Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
"ff" (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).

However, I don't see any ligature between "f" and "i", either in "fi" or
"ffi".

(I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)

Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
Evince)?

> 
> Regards
> Liviu
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT  wrote:
> Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
> "ff" (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).
>
> However, I don't see any ligature between "f" and "i", either in "fi" or
> "ffi".
>
> (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)
>
Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.


> Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
> Evince)?
>
On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
ligature for 'fi'. Regards
Liviu


>>
>> Regards
>> Liviu
>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
> Regards,
> --
> Daniel CLEMENT
>
>
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Daniel CLEMENT]

Thanks, that did the trick.

I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...

Liviu Andronic wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT  wrote:
> > Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
> > "ff" (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).
> >
> > However, I don't see any ligature between "f" and "i", either in "fi" or
> > "ffi".
> >
> > (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)
> >
> Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.

... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked "ff".

Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?

> 
> 
> > Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
> > Evince)?
> >
> On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
> ligature for 'fi'. 

This probably makes sense, since the hook of the "f" is very short in
Palatino...

> Regards
> Liviu
> 
[...]
> 
Regards,
-- 
Daniel CLEMENT

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel CLEMENT  wrote:
> Thanks, that did the trick.
>
> I had to install the tex-gyre package. Then...
>
> Liviu Andronic wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Daniel CLEMENT  wrote:
>> > Hum... On the attached .PDF, I do see the ligature between the two
>> > "ff" (which I usually miss) and the dashes (which I have).
>> >
>> > However, I don't see any ligature between "f" and "i", either in "fi" or
>> > "ffi".
>> >
>> > (I am under 1.6.9 so I was unable to open the attached .LYX file.)
>> >
>> Open in a text file and see the lines in the preamble.
>
> ... the \usepackage{tgpagella} allowed me to get nicely linked "ff".
>
> Definitely an improvement. Maybe LyX could load _this_ package for
> Palatino fonts, if it just supersedes mathpazo?
>
>>
>>
>> > Could something be wrong/missing with my setup (1.6.9 / Ubuntu Lucid /
>> > Evince)?
>> >
>> On the same set-up I tried with acroread, and there too there's no
>> ligature for 'fi'.
>
> This probably makes sense, since the hook of the "f" is very short in
> Palatino...
>
See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
[1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/

Liviu



>> Regards
>> Liviu
>>
> [...]
>>
> Regards,
> --
> Daniel CLEMENT
>
>
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:


See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
[1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/


Liviu,

  Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures
in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the
standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi).

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Rich Shepard  wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:
>
>> See [1] for the list of expected ligatures.
>> [1] http://www.tug.dk/FontCatalogue/palatino/
>
> Liviu,
>
>  Maybe it's my old eyeballs, but I don't see differences in the ligatures
> in the standard Palatino and the enhanced version. As a matter of fact, the
> standard ligatures seem more tighly connected (e.g., fi).
>
Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you
will clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less
"ligature pixels" than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black
line in the 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the
'fi' ligature, while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi'
symbol.

Cheers
Liviu
<><>

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:


Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will
clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less "ligature
pixels" than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the
'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature,
while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol.


Liviu,

  Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x.

  OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it.

Thanks,

Rich

Re: No ligatures in Palatino?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Rich Shepard  wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2011, Liviu Andronic wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately it's bitmap, but even so if you zoom to about 1000% you will
>> clearly notice that the Palladio ligatures have much less "ligature
>> pixels" than the Pagella. The latter features a solid black line in the
>> 'ff' ligature, and an almost 'continuous' line for the 'fi' ligature,
>> while Palladio features a completely discontinuous 'fi' symbol.
>
> Liviu,
>
>  Oh. xpdf goes only to 400x.
>
You can enlarge the bitmaps using Mirage. But if you're playing with
the PDF files, here in Evince even at 400% there's a (hardly, but)
noticeable white pixel in 'fi' for both Palladio and Pagella, and a
clear distance in the Palladio 'ff'. The Pagella 'ff' ligature is
clear-cut.

>  OK, this weekend I'll get the Pagella and install it.
>
Have fun.
Liviu


> Thanks,
>
> Rich
>



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