Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
At 10:07 PM -0500 2004-10-20, texas critter wrote: But the same error message over multiple mailings for *all* AOL list members over a week or more would indicate that it is correct. Maybe. Remember that I used to work there. With shared hosting, it's generally true, even of webhosts that don't want to host spammers, they often don't pay enough attention to their resellers' customers and will end up hosting spammers who get the server's IP address blacklisted. That's certainly true enough. Absolutely! And anyone who's looking to sign up with a webhost should find out their IP ranges and check them *before* signing up. To the degree that this is possible, yes. One useful criteria in choosing a hosting provider would be whether or not they have signed up for the feedback loop service from AOL, and can give you a summary of recent reports. I also recommend that anyone with a dedicated server sign up for the feedback loop as well. Unfortunately, that's only something you can do after-the-fact, at which point it may be too late. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
I don't think so, Mark. This is an announce-only list, and the sender is non-US, I think on a dialup. Let's say the sender's IP or ISP is on the blacklist. Even though the list mail is finally coming from my server, couldn't the presence of his IP or ISP in the message headers be enough to trigger the blacklist? - john No. The message from AOL is that the IP address of the mail server your list is being sent from is blacklisted, not the sender of the message. If you're on shared hosting, not a dedicated server, you need to talk to your webhost and find out if they're on AOL's feedback loop and if they're actively nuking spammers. That's not quite right, I don't think, because if the sender uses Squirrelmail on my server, his messages are accepted at places where they are otherwise blocked. Mine is a personal sever. I am a newbie, but I'm using Postfix/Debian and it is not an open relay. I personally have not had any problems being blocked anywhere, I've used dnsbl lookups and been OK, and have used available open-relay tests and been OK. We only have problems when my non-US friend sends mail to the list (or to certain domains that apparently have him or his ISP blocked). This sender is a good guy - a missionary that is only sending mail to his supporters - nothing unsolicited. His only problems are with AOL and one non-US domain. Thanks any other comments. - john -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
But the same error message over multiple mailings for *all* AOL list members over a week or more would indicate that it is correct. Maybe. Remember that I used to work there. Brad's right here. I've dealt with this stuff and AOL enough to be able to confirm they don't always have their act together. it's gotten better over the last year or so, mostly, I think, because they're shedding subscribers at a huge pace and shrinking down to a size their infrastructure and staff can actually get a handle on. But whenever AOL acts up for me and users complain, I always tell them the same thing -- to move to a competent ISP. AOL's got a tough job, given their size and the sheer volume of spam that they have to fight off. but they've done a lousy job of dealing with it, and it's a job that badly impacts their users (and they don't tell their users what they do or give users a chance to evaluate their actions, unlike places like Earthlink). And they've done a horrible job of teaching their users how to use the system. I finally got tired of constantly getting bogus spam reports and feeling like AOL was making me responsible for teaching their users how to use the system -- instead, I tell them to move to a competent ISP instead I've given up trying to fix AOL's problems for them. They're just not worth the hassle to me any more. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
On Oct 21, 2004, at 3:56 AM, John Fleming wrote: are otherwise blocked. Mine is a personal sever. I am a newbie, but I'm using Postfix/Debian and it is not an open relay. AOL also blocks email from servers living in IP spaces known to be dialup or in the cable modem or home DSL ranges in many cases, because so much spam comes zombied home computers. Their position is you should be using your ISP's SMTP machines to send e-mail, not your personal machine, so if you're on a consumer DSL line or cable modem line, that could well be the cause of the blockage. And frankly, these days, I think they have a point. It's one reason I've always run my home off of a SOHO line, not a personal line. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: -1 cluster-admins moderator request(s) waiting
also sprach Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004.10.19.1735 +0200]: Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Article 3.38. A collective apology for asking a FAQ. It wasn't really a problem, I just reported it for your information. The time I saved went to all of your expenses, which is inexcusable. Please forgive... -- Martin F. KrafftArtificial Intelligence Laboratory Ph.D. Student Department of Information Technology Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Zurich Tel: +41.(0)44.63-54323 Andreasstrasse 15, Office 2.18 http://ailab.ch/people/krafft CH-8050 Zurich, Switzerland Invalid/expired PGP subkeys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver! Spamtraps: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] there are more things in heaven and earth, horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -- hamlet signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Configuration back to to ascii config file?
Mark Sapiro wrote: Mauricio Tavares wrote: Let's see if I make sense. I know I can create a mailing list config file as an ascii file and then feed it in (I forgot the name of the command so I am not going to worry about it) to the mailing list to create its binary config file. When I go to the admin page, I can also change its settings. But, let's say I come up with really neat settings and would like to apply them to a few more mailing lists. Is there a way I can save the configuration of a given mailing list back to an ascii file so I can do any minor changes and feed it to the other lists? bin/config_list --help It works in both directions. Thanks! I did not know it could go both ways. So, now happyness prevails. =) -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Moderator log in?
How does the moderator log into the admin function. I entered the Moderator's email address and a password for moderators, but it isn't obvious where they log in. Admin always asks for the Administrator. Thanks ... Don -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
Mark Sapiro wrote: John Wheaton wrote: I am curious whether Mailman will work on Solaris, and how best to integrate it with our current web site. Our school maintains an informational website at www.stfrancishighschool.com, hosted by IgLou in Louisville. We have been discussing with a few alumni the possibility of creating mailing lists for the alums, and Mailman seems like a good solution. We have also looked into Majordomo, which IgLou will administer for additional monthly charges. We would like to save money. Can Mailman be installed alongside our website? In other words, is it self contained? Can its bin and lib files, for example, be installed in our web directory, and still allow Mailman to function? Mailman can be installed under Solaris in your own virtual domain on your web host, but it requires (probably root) access to the shell on the server to do it and to integrate it with the web server and MTA on the host. I.e. IgLou will probably have to do it for you and will probably charge you for the installation and maybe for monthly use as well. To see what's involved in installing Mailman, go to http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/INSTALL?only_with_tag=Release_2_1_5view=markup Adding to the mess, I am running mailman right now with postfix in a Solaris 8 box. Besides my own errors (I am working on that ;), I had no problems getting it to work. I literally set it to do postfix (and postfix to do it), typed ./config and off it went. Compiler used was gcc. So, if you need someone to harass, that much I may be able to help. =) -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
[Mailman-Users] How do I interface Mailman with Apache?
Hello, I seem to have mailman configured and built properly, but I'm wondering how to get it interfaced with apache. It seems to have put itself in /usr/local/mailman and that's not where apache is. Do I need to rebuild it? or can I link it into Apache? I'm not seeing anything obvious in the documentation. I've not ever used mailman before, so I'm kinda lost. Thanks, Aaron ~ -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Change GID w/o recompiling?
Hi there! I've been struggling with my setup of Mailman, and finally after many hours I got to the point where it actually responded via Apache. :) Only problem is that it responds with: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 8. A quick search rendered the information that Mailman must be run with the same GID as Apache (in this case 8), and that there is nothing to be done but to recompile and reinstall... :( Is that really true??? Apparantly this is one of the most common questions, so the problem isn't exactly unique for me. Has there been no development as to change the configuration so that you can change the GID Mailman runs as? Will this be a feture in future releases? And before you tell me to RTFM before installation, let me tell you that Mailman was installed as part of the baseinstallation in Suse... ;) Regards Mats Hulten -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
John Wheaton wrote: Hello, I am curious whether Mailman will work on Solaris, and how best to integrate it with our current web site. Our school maintains an informational website at www.stfrancishighschool.com, hosted by IgLou in Louisville. We have been discussing with a few alumni the possibility of creating mailing lists for the alums, and Mailman seems like a good solution. We have also looked into Majordomo, which IgLou will administer for additional monthly charges. We would like to save money. Can Mailman be installed alongside our website? In other words, is it self contained? Can its bin and lib files, for example, be installed in our web directory, and still allow Mailman to function? What you are asking is exactly what I am planning on doing here. We have a mail server (Solaris 8 box) which is currently being used as mailman's website. What we are going to do is to NFS mount the mailman directory in our webserver (a Solaris 9 box) so it can be accessed there. Probably, the best way to do it is kinda like what you infered: install mailman in the webserver and then automount the data directories. I'll be playing with that and keep you all posted with my adventures. Our other possible solution is to host the mailing lists on one of our own Linux servers, if the app cannot be installed on our host's server. Since we run Exchange Server, I am trying to simplify matters by hosting the mailing lists offsite, though. Thanks for your help. John Wheaton, Technology Coordinator St. Francis High School 233 W. Broadway Louisville, KY 40202 -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
How do you sign up for the AOL feedback loop? Finding out after the fact is better than not knowing at all. Thanks, Jeff D -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderator log in?
Donald A Green wrote: How does the moderator log into the admin function. I entered the Moderator's email address and a password for moderators, but it isn't obvious where they log in. Admin always asks for the Administrator. Answered about 50 minutes before this repost. Answer at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-October/040207.html -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] changing in the e-mail
Abo Baker El-Fiky wrote: Is there any way that I can change the welcome e-mail the list send it automatic, Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Article 4.48. The template for the welcome message is subscribeack.txt. And is there also anyway that I can stop my members from sending e-mails? I mean I need only the admin to send e-mails nothing else not the members! See FAQ 3.11. And also I need to change the welcome e-mail which contain if you need to post a massage in this list please e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Above two FAQs cover this. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
[Mailman-Users] kkkkkkkkkkkk
__ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
On 20 Oct 2004, at 17:04, Mauricio Tavares wrote: John Wheaton wrote: Hello, I am curious whether Mailman will work on Solaris, and how best to integrate it with our current web site. Our school maintains an informational website at www.stfrancishighschool.com, hosted by IgLou in Louisville. We have been discussing with a few alumni the possibility of creating mailing lists for the alums, and Mailman seems like a good solution. We have also looked into Majordomo, which IgLou will administer for additional monthly charges. We would like to save money. Can Mailman be installed alongside our website? In other words, is it self contained? Can its bin and lib files, for example, be installed in our web directory, and still allow Mailman to function? What you are asking is exactly what I am planning on doing here. We have a mail server (Solaris 8 box) which is currently being used as mailman's website. What we are going to do is to NFS mount the mailman directory in our webserver (a Solaris 9 box) so it can be accessed there. Probably, the best way to do it is kinda like what you infered: install mailman in the webserver and then automount the data directories. I'll be playing with that and keep you all posted with my adventures. If it helps, I have been running Mailman on Linux from NFS mounts, with the actual storage on a high-reliability UNIX server, for over 3 years now. In my case it was to provide a more reliable service; I use a primary Mailman server and a warm standby secondary server which takes over the primary server's identity via some DHCP trickery if the primary fails. Worked well a week back when the the local SCSI drive on the primary server died. Switchover in a couple of minutes, no loss of service or data or access to data (mail and archives). Second time that drive failure has happened; once on each of the two machines. I have been warned by experts that NFS locking could be a problem with this way of working but thus far it has not proven to be a problem. I would like to achieve automatic failover and being able to load share would be great but that is a more serious challenge for a Mailman configuration and would test the NFS lock issues more strenuously. The only problems I have had with Linux and NFS is due to what I believe to be a kernel lock handling problem on Linux. The only solution I found for this was to limit the transfer size used for the NFS mounts to 8k. I concluded that left to their own devices (no pun intended) the Linux NFS client negotiated too large a transfer size with the NFS server and then tripped over its own feet by releasing some internal kernel lock prematurely, which then caused a process to hang indefinitely (and also be unkillable; reboot being the only way to dispose of them) if they performed large data transfer to/from NFS mounts. As an aside I am about to move these Mailmen from Linux on x86 to Solaris on Sparc having had no bad experience with another Solaris/Sparc installation I set up for another domain. Our other possible solution is to host the mailing lists on one of our own Linux servers, if the app cannot be installed on our host's server. Since we run Exchange Server, I am trying to simplify matters by hosting the mailing lists offsite, though. Thanks for your help. John Wheaton, Technology Coordinator St. Francis High School 233 W. Broadway Louisville, KY 40202 -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Using domain name alias in From address for list
I'm setting up my first Mailman installation and have encountered a small problem. Everything looks about ready to go except that the address that appears in the From line from is the real name of the machine rather than the alias. In other words, the real machine name might be uglyrealname.domain.com, which has a DNS alias of prettyalias.domain.com. In all of the emails that get sent out (e.g. subscription confirmation, welcome message, etc), Mailman is correctly giving the address in the text of the email as something like [EMAIL PROTECTED], but in the From line of the email, it shows up as being from something like [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Is there any way I can change that, either through a config setting or by modifying the Python code? (I'm a programmer, but I don't know Python, so use small words that I'll understand.) Or is this something that requires changing our Sendmail settings? (And if so, any hints in that area would be VERY appreciated!) Thanks, Wally Hartshorn -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Using domain name alias in From address for list
At 2:10 PM -0500 2004-10-21, Wally Hartshorn wrote: Everything looks about ready to go except that the address that appears in the From line from is the real name of the machine rather than the alias. In other words, the real machine name might be uglyrealname.domain.com, which has a DNS alias of prettyalias.domain.com. When you say alias you mean this is done via a CNAME record, right? If so, then don't do that. The RFCs specify that any CNAME found in a mail header has to be replaced with the canonical name that is referenced by the alias, which results in precisely the kind of problem you appear to be having. Try replacing the CNAME record with an A record that refers to the same IP address. Is there any way I can change that, either through a config setting or by modifying the Python code? Nope. This kind of thing is done at the MTA level, not within Mailman. Moreover, while you might be able to configure your MTA to violate this rule, you can't do the same for all the other MTAs in the world, and once the name is changed the damage can't be un-done. Change your DNS to remove the CNAME alias and replace that with an A record which references the same IP address, and you should be okay. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
At 7:08 PM +0100 2004-10-21, Richard Barrett wrote: I have been warned by experts that NFS locking could be a problem with this way of working but thus far it has not proven to be a problem. Locking is the bane of any administrator using NFS. Nick Christenson wrote a seminal paper on how to build a scalable mail system using NFS as the message store (see http://www.jetcafe.org/~npc/doc/mail_arch.html). It's hard to do the same kind of thing in an IMAP environment -- the only IMAP server I know of that uses Maildir (a storage format that is supposedly NFS-friendly) is Courier-IMAP, and it has some serious scalability issues. For large-scale systems, this is a real PITA. The only problems I have had with Linux and NFS is due to what I believe to be a kernel lock handling problem on Linux. Cross-platform NFS server/client environments are usually the worst possible thing you can do. NFS appliance vendors like NetApp work very hard to make their products compatible with the broadest array of client OSes, and even they can't satisfy everyone. In my experience, this is the single most difficult/impossible problem to solve in an NFS environment. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
At 11:16 AM -0400 2004-10-21, MCV Webmaster wrote: How do you sign up for the AOL feedback loop? Finding out after the fact is better than not knowing at all. Read the FAQ entry that was referenced, which includes a link to the AOL page on this subject. Or go to the web page that was referenced in the original error message, which also includes a link to the same page. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
the only IMAP server I know of that uses Maildir (a storage format that is supposedly NFS-friendly) is Courier-IMAP FWIW, the dovecot IMAP server supports Maildir. -- John Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Using domain name alias in Fromaddress for list
Ah! Okay, that sounds like the problem. Oh bother. Okay, sounds like I have to bug the guys in the back room to fiddle with the DNS entry. Thanks! Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/21/2004 2:46:05 PM At 2:10 PM -0500 2004-10-21, Wally Hartshorn wrote: Everything looks about ready to go except that the address that appears in the From line from is the real name of the machine rather than the alias. In other words, the real machine name might be uglyrealname.domain.com, which has a DNS alias of prettyalias.domain.com. When you say alias you mean this is done via a CNAME record, right? If so, then don't do that. The RFCs specify that any CNAME found in a mail header has to be replaced with the canonical name that is referenced by the alias, which results in precisely the kind of problem you appear to be having. Try replacing the CNAME record with an A record that refers to the same IP address. Is there any way I can change that, either through a config setting or by modifying the Python code? Nope. This kind of thing is done at the MTA level, not within Mailman. Moreover, while you might be able to configure your MTA to violate this rule, you can't do the same for all the other MTAs in the world, and once the name is changed the damage can't be un-done. Change your DNS to remove the CNAME alias and replace that with an A record which references the same IP address, and you should be okay. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
At 4:37 PM -0400 2004-10-21, John Dennis wrote: FWIW, the dovecot IMAP server supports Maildir. Never heard of it. Is it based on UW-IMAP, Courier-IMAP, or Cyrus? Those are the big three. I don't know of any other IMAP server that anyone is using in any kind of significant operation that isn't at least based on one of these three systems. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 17:00, Brad Knowles wrote: At 4:37 PM -0400 2004-10-21, John Dennis wrote: FWIW, the dovecot IMAP server supports Maildir. Never heard of it. Is it based on UW-IMAP, Courier-IMAP, or Cyrus? Those are the big three. I don't know of any other IMAP server that anyone is using in any kind of significant operation that isn't at least based on one of these three systems. I believe it was written from scratch, principal author is Timo Sirainen, [EMAIL PROTECTED], info here: http://dovecot.org We (Red Hat) were looking for a replacement for UW-IMAP and beginning about a year ago began shipping both Dovecot and Cyrus as potential replacements for UW-IMAP. Dovecot is equivalent in ease of use (configuration) as UW-IMAP and has a focus on security (think of it as postfix's response to sendmail). Cyrus fills the need for an industrial strength IMAP server in large organizations. -- John Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
At 5:20 PM -0400 2004-10-21, John Dennis wrote: http://dovecot.org It uses mmap(), which is not safe on NFS. This is why Cyrus can't be used on NFS. This defeats the principle purpose of using Maildir. If you're going to do that, you might as well use either UW-IMAP or Cyrus, both of which are proven to be scalable (in different ways) to hundreds of thousands of users using local/SAN file storage, and the design I presented at LISA 2000 is designed to take a Cyrus-based system up to at least millions of users. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
On 21 Oct 2004, at 20:43, Brad Knowles wrote: At 7:08 PM +0100 2004-10-21, Richard Barrett wrote: I have been warned by experts that NFS locking could be a problem with this way of working but thus far it has not proven to be a problem. Locking is the bane of any administrator using NFS. Nick Christenson wrote a seminal paper on how to build a scalable mail system using NFS as the message store (see http://www.jetcafe.org/~npc/doc/mail_arch.html). It's hard to do the same kind of thing in an IMAP environment -- the only IMAP server I know of that uses Maildir (a storage format that is supposedly NFS-friendly) is Courier-IMAP, and it has some serious scalability issues. For large-scale systems, this is a real PITA. Brad In the light of your comments I looked at what I believe are the primary file contention issues for Mailman: 1. handling of files containing messages queued for processing as they are moved along the chain of queues from initial delivery by the MTA to handoff to the outbound MTA and to the archiver. The code in $prefix/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py provides the enqueueing and dequeueing functions. It appears to me that the operation of this code avoids dependence on file system locking during both file creation and deletion and is intentionally unaffected by a decision to use NFS mounts as the storage for Mailman's qfiles. The residual risk is of collisons in generating the file names of queued messages files using SHA digests but I think this is fairly small. 2. handling of files containing per list related data structures and productions of archiving processes. These operations are protected by a list locking scheme implemented using the code in $prefix/Mailman/LockFile.py The comments in this module suggest that specific efforts have been made to avoid deficiencies associated with NFS mounted file systems but there are cautionary notes such as ensuring that clocks on the systems concerned are adequately aligned. My own, non-expert conclusion is that a. Switchboard.py's code sidesteps any requirement for fine grain locking of individual message files when the are being queued and dequeued and this avoids deficiencies NFS might have in this respect. b. The coarse grained locking used for protecting per list related data structures and archiving operations specifically addresses known deficiencies in NFS. It seems to me that your reservations are reasonable but it is clear that the authors of this part of Mailman (all smarter men than I) were conscious of the potential problems and have made efforts to avoid them. This may be why, after more than 3 years of operation of a moderately active server, with everything of Mailman but the mail and cgi wrappers on NFS mounted storage, a major disaster has not struck the system yet because of the use of NFS. Indeed, disaster has been avoided by being able, courtesy of NFS, to rapidly switch to a backup server with all data intact when the primary server died; but other people's circumstances may be different and my strategy is only good because we have a high reliability NFS server for storing Mailman's files. Richard The only problems I have had with Linux and NFS is due to what I believe to be a kernel lock handling problem on Linux. Cross-platform NFS server/client environments are usually the worst possible thing you can do. NFS appliance vendors like NetApp work very hard to make their products compatible with the broadest array of client OSes, and even they can't satisfy everyone. In my experience, this is the single most difficult/impossible problem to solve in an NFS environment. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
At 12:17 AM +0100 2004-10-22, Richard Barrett wrote: 1. handling of files containing messages queued for processing as they are moved along the chain of queues from initial delivery by the MTA to handoff to the outbound MTA and to the archiver. The code in $prefix/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py provides the enqueueing and dequeueing functions. That's fine once the message gets to Mailman. This means that your MTA queues (and probably your user mailboxes, unless you use an NFS-friendly storage method for them as well) should be on local filesystems, however. If the server goes down, you risk losing those messages which are in the MTA queue but haven't been delivered yet. It appears to me that the operation of this code avoids dependence on file system locking during both file creation and deletion and is intentionally unaffected by a decision to use NFS mounts as the storage for Mailman's qfiles. If Mailman does work this way, then this is very good news. The residual risk is of collisons in generating the file names of queued messages files using SHA digests but I think this is fairly small. Agreed. Since we're not talking about crypto applications here, we could probably even use MD5 hashes reasonably safely without having to worry too much about the unlikely collisions. 2. handling of files containing per list related data structures and productions of archiving processes. These operations are protected by a list locking scheme implemented using the code in $prefix/Mailman/LockFile.py The comments in this module suggest that specific efforts have been made to avoid deficiencies associated with NFS mounted file systems but there are cautionary notes such as ensuring that clocks on the systems concerned are adequately aligned. Also good news. Also points out another known issue with NFS filesystems, and good server timesync is a very important issue that I am also involved with (see http://ntp.isc.org/bin/view/Main/ContributorsList). Indeed, it was my involvement with NTP that brought me to Mailman, since we were running our mailing lists at the time with Majordomo and I wanted to move to something that would be easier to manage. My own, non-expert conclusion is that a. Switchboard.py's code sidesteps any requirement for fine grain locking of individual message files when the are being queued and dequeued and this avoids deficiencies NFS might have in this respect. That is a likely conclusion. b. The coarse grained locking used for protecting per list related data structures and archiving operations specifically addresses known deficiencies in NFS. Also likely. It seems to me that your reservations are reasonable but it is clear that the authors of this part of Mailman (all smarter men than I) were conscious of the potential problems and have made efforts to avoid them. Barry (and the other Mailman developers) are most certainly not dummies, but I wasn't aware that this was an issue that they had specifically looked into carefully and make significant efforts to try to deal with. This is very, very good news. Thanks for the update! -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
John Fleming wrote: I don't think so, Mark. This is an announce-only list, and the sender is non-US, I think on a dialup. Let's say the sender's IP or ISP is on the blacklist. Even though the list mail is finally coming from my server, couldn't the presence of his IP or ISP in the message headers be enough to trigger the blacklist? - john No. The message from AOL is that the IP address of the mail server your list is being sent from is blacklisted, not the sender of the message. If you're on shared hosting, not a dedicated server, you need to talk to your webhost and find out if they're on AOL's feedback loop and if they're actively nuking spammers. That's not quite right, I don't think, because if the sender uses Squirrelmail on my server, his messages are accepted at places where they are otherwise blocked. Mine is a personal sever. I am a newbie, but I'm using Postfix/Debian and it is not an open relay. I personally have not had any problems being blocked anywhere, I've used dnsbl lookups and been OK, and have used available open-relay tests and been OK. We only have problems when my non-US friend sends mail to the list (or to certain domains that apparently have him or his ISP blocked). This sender is a good guy - a missionary that is only sending mail to his supporters - nothing unsolicited. His only problems are with AOL and one non-US domain. Thanks any other comments. - john It seems clear that the issue is with your friend or his ISP. When he posts to your list directly and the post is resent to the list members, the envelope sender and the Sender: and Errors-To: headers are all (re-)written to point to the list-bounces address. Thus only the From: and some Received: and possibly X-*: headers remain to identify the original source of the message. Clearly, AOL and the one other domain is looking at something there and deciding to block the message. Have you looked up his IP and others if any in the chain from him to you in the various dnsbl lists (openrbl.org does multiple list lookups with one query)? When he posts via your Squirrelmail, is the From: address the same as when he posts directly? If so, this would rule that out as the trigger. As this thread has shown, these are difficult issues to resolve, but your friend can go to the links in FAQ 3.42 and possibly find more info or some relief. In the meantime, he can apparently do what he needs to do using your Squirrelmail or get an address at any of a number of free e-mail services to post from. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:16:01 -0400 (EDT), MCV Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you sign up for the AOL feedback loop? Finding out after the fact is better than not knowing at all. http://postmaster.info.aol.com/fbl/ -- hth, texas critter Get a FREE iPod! http://alice.ttlg.net/freeipod.html Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/ EL-M FAQ: http://www.emaillist-managers.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Change GID w/o recompiling?
Mats Hulten wrote: I've been struggling with my setup of Mailman, and finally after many hours I got to the point where it actually responded via Apache. :) Only problem is that it responds with: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 8. A quick search rendered the information that Mailman must be run with the same GID as Apache (in this case 8), and that there is nothing to be done but to recompile and reinstall... :( Is that really true??? Apparantly this is one of the most common questions, so the problem isn't exactly unique for me. Has there been no development as to change the configuration so that you can change the GID Mailman runs as? Will this be a feture in future releases? And before you tell me to RTFM before installation, let me tell you that Mailman was installed as part of the baseinstallation in Suse... ;) Well, then it seems the problem in your case is Suse provided you with a non-working installation. Shouldn't you be talking to them about this? OTOH, maybe http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-October/039977.html will provide a hint. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
At 8:08 PM -0500 2004-10-21, texas critter wrote: hmm? I'm not sure what you mean by after the fact, I use the feedback loop currently to keep me alerted to spam reports on mail going out from my dedicated server to AOL. On a server you already own. Try signing up for a feedback loop report for a machine at a provider where you are considering them for service, but you are not yet actually in possession of the machine. That's what I meant by after the fact. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris-based web server
At 12:04 PM -0400 2004-10-20, Mauricio Tavares wrote: Probably, the best way to do it is kinda like what you infered: install mailman in the webserver and then automount the data directories. I'll be playing with that and keep you all posted with my adventures. Automounter is a traditional area of much pain with NFS servers. If you need that functionality, amd may be a better choice. My personal experience is that this sort of thing is a pain overall, and better avoided by using intelligent static mounts. Otherwise, with the other comments on this thread regarding Mailman's intelligent design for handling other typical NFS problem areas, it sounds like you may be reasonably safe. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
On Oct 21, 2004, at 6:06 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: blacklist. Even though the list mail is finally coming from my server, couldn't the presence of his IP or ISP in the message headers be enough to trigger the blacklist? - john No. Yes, actually. That's not quite right, I don't think, because if the sender uses Squirrelmail on my server, actually, if the received lines have a blacklisted IP in it anywhere in the chain, there's a good chance sites will block it. And yes, many of them will report back YOUR IP address (as the one doing delivery) as being blocked, even though they're blocking soemthing two or three hops prior. I've seen some amazingly badly written and stupid spam blocking stuff out there. Much of which I write off as hey, if your users are stupid enough to let you get away with throwing that stuff at their email, we'll, that's their problem. AOL is not immune to that kind of your admins are on drugs, or need them feeling. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:22:21 +0200, Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:07 PM -0500 2004-10-20, texas critter wrote: I also recommend that anyone with a dedicated server sign up for the feedback loop as well. Unfortunately, that's only something you can do after-the-fact, at which point it may be too late. hmm? I'm not sure what you mean by after the fact, I use the feedback loop currently to keep me alerted to spam reports on mail going out from my dedicated server to AOL. AOLers who report list mail as spam get unsubbed (per AOL's requirements). By being pro-active, it helps keep my server out of the AOL blocklists. -- hth, texas critter Get a FREE iPod! http://alice.ttlg.net/freeipod.html Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/ EL-M FAQ: http://www.emaillist-managers.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
SUMMARY Re: [Mailman-Users] Recent AOL thread
couldn't the presence of his IP or ISP in the message headers be enough to trigger the blacklist? - john No. Yes, actually. The problem ISP is in Europe. The challenged sender is using a dialup at this time. There are 2 probably related observations: 1. He is being blocked by a domain in South America, cantv.net. The bounce message has a link to their abuse pages, and sure enough, his ISP's SMTP server's domain is in the block list. When he sends using his Outlook, this domain appears in the headers and he bounces as if a spammer. If he uses my Squirrelmail, his sending domain doesn't appear in the headers, and his mail goes through. This is, of course, true whether we're talking about Mailman list mail or not. 2. When he sent to his list, all the AOL mails bounced. Well, they didn't actually bounce permanently - They we're delayed. I found them in my Postfix queue, but by the next day, they were gone. I haven't actually confirmed that they were received by the AOL users, but I assume they were. Apparently due to his domain's reports, his mail to AOL is rate-limited. He uses a commercial ISP, and I guess someone(s) have sent enough spam to AOL and cantv to get his ISP's SMTP server domain tagged as a problem. Thanks for all of the discussion - Being a newbie, I've learned a lot. However, this really doesn't involve Mailman anymore, so let's close it up? ;-) - John -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Change GID w/o recompiling?
Ahhh SuSE. Jim's pointer [via Mark] is good: You should change /etc/mailman.cgi-group by hand. We had some issues with the changes 'sticking' past a SuSEconfig run, but we also had some major group muckups. Once those were sorted, and we actually had a proper group to match the gid, all was well. From SuSE's Mailman package docs: --- Web and mail wrappers = With these two files: /etc/mailman.cgi-group /etc/mailman.mail-group you can specify, which group id will mailman get from web (resp. mail) server. The values are preset for use with Apache web server and Sendmail MTA. If you switch for example to Postfix MTA, fill in /etc/mailman.mail-group group handed over by this MTA (it is 65534 (nogroup) in SuSE Linux). Nice to know we guessed right. Eventually we installed 2.1.5 by hand over SuSE's RPM anyway, and set it right from the start. Cheers Adam Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 22/10/04 11:17 AM Mats Hulten wrote: I've been struggling with my setup of Mailman, and finally after many hours I got to the point where it actually responded via Apache. :) Only problem is that it responds with: -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
