on the Gazan and West Bank
economies).
Hope this helps you towards a more concrete analysis of the material
conditions of the current situation.
Victor Friedlander-Rakocz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical
this
universality as a function of human interaction with the nature, a product
of the unity of human activity and nature in practice.
I guess I'll have to order the book to be sure.
Regards,
Victor Friedlander-Rakocz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED
RD
Sounds very similar to our discussion several months back (just saved the
string to my disk).
Would really appreciate your reproduction of Section 2--Simple and higher
categories of the dialectic(pp. 108-113)--
Thanks and,
Highest regards,
Victor Friedlander-Rakocz
[EMAIL PROTECTED
was the rejection of Lysenkoism by the Dialecticians and
corresponding support given it by the Mechanists, (see
http://www.comms.dcu.ie/sheehanh/lysenko.htm). Makes one wonder at the
scientific credentials of the Mechanists who were drawn mainly from the
engineering and research elites.
Victor
Thanks for the information
I've been waiting for access to this information for a long time
Victor Friedlander-Rakocz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Jim Farmelant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 18:24
Subject: Re
by
non-Russian reading researchers of the place of Vygotsky and Ilyenkov in the
development of materialist theories of social life and of history demands
much more information in English on Deborin and his school? factions? than
is available today.
Victor Friedlander-Rakocz
[EMAIL PROTECTED
through reason and the
development of political liberalism in 18th century Europe, but modern free
masonry and its various relations have long since become exclusive clubs for
members of the petit bourgeoisie and a model for college fraternity
ceremonials.
Victor
- Original Message
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
andthe thinkers he inspired' marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 18:32
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] theory of the Communists
of the Communists may be summed upinthe
single sentence: Abolition of private property. thesingle sentence:
Abolition of private property
CB,
My comments are scattered about below (labelled V2).
. Victor
.
CB: response to the theory of the Communists may be summed up inthe
single
sentence: Abolition
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
and thinkers he inspired' marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 17:03
Subject: Spam: [Marxism-Thaxis] the theory of the
Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
and thinkers he inspired' marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 17:03
Subject: Spam: [Marxism-Thaxis] the theory of the Communists may
- Original Message -
From: A. Mani [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 1:06
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Re: 7. Re: Re: Marxism-Thaxis Digest, Vol 23,Issue
25 (Victor)
7. Re: Re: Marxism-Thaxis Digest, Vol 23, Issue 25 (Victor
/archive/ilyenkov/works/positive/index.htm,and
Ilyenkov 1977 Dialectical Logic
http://www.marxists.org/archive/ilyenkov/works/essays/index.htm
Victor
- Original Message -
From: A. Mani [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 20:10
Finally!
I was waiting for a response to that provocation. I'm writing so it'll take
a bit before I respond in full.
And thanks,
Victor
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 13:09
Subject: Re: [Marxism
).
Victor
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
andthe thinkers he inspired' marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 18:09
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Contradiction
is pure nonsense from the viewpoint of
objective idealist and of materialist dialectical concepts of knowledge.
MORE LATER.
Victor
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
andthe thinkers he
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
andthe thinkers he inspired' marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 18:48
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] From PEN-L on Zeno's
, Chinese, or Arabic numerals?
Please forward these questions to the gentleman if you will.
Thanks and Regards,
Victor
Before we get lost in the arcane intricacies of quantum mechanics (which
if the string theorists are to believed, are as 'dated' as Newtonian
mechanics) we should ask what
WL,
I've written my comments under the appropriate paragraphs below.
Peace and the strength to preserve it,
Victor
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 1:44
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Fettering
1
CB,
I'd also like to read how you justify this theory.
Victor
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:06
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] The Specter of a Soviet-Style Crisis:
Evidencesof Fette
. The revolution occurs only after the emergent alternative system, ruling
and ruled classes together, has become the effectively dominant relation of
production, the old system having lost all but its ceremonies and pensions.
Regards,
Victor
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL
is nowhere near the stage
where it can be dismissed by a powerful alternative, nor does that
alternative exist at the present time.
Victor
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 19:44
Subject: Re: [Marxism
the exigencies of normal human interaction?
Victor
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 1:54
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Fettering -correction
Without question the drive to realize a profit forces
after it has become irrelevant to production and
the social relations by which production is organized and prosecuted.
Regards,
Victor
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
andthe thinkers he
of Publication: 1982 ISSN:0163-5719 on the subject of ATO's
(You have to pay for both)
Regards,
Victor
- Original Message -
From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 22:01
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Graham Priest
is needed to resuscitate the rate of profit for
serious capital enterprise.
Globalisation is exactly this process of transferring production from
expensive developed countries to cheap developing countries. Need I add
that Marx told you so?
Victor
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown
.
Victor
- Original Message -
From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl Marx
andthe thinkers he inspired' marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 23:52
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Paul Craig
CB,
There are so many signs that the petroleum economy is sliding downhill that
I'm beginning to believe that the Club of Rome projection of a petrol
producing plateau by the first decade of the 21st century is much more
likely than the current predictions of the end of rising production rates
CB,
You liked that.
Now, try correlating it with the recent announcement that a plant for
experimenting with commercialized production of fusion induced power will be
built in France.
This is from:
http://www.theregister.com/2005/06/29/france_fusion_win/
France wins billion dollar fusion
Thanks,
About 10 years ago I heard rumours that practical fusion research (in
France) was far more advanced than was generally known even to many
physicists.
The information was so vague and diffuse it was (at least with resources
available then) to follow it up. Now that there is more
comrade? I say, thank you
for the stimulating discussion, we'll get back to these important and
stimulating topics as time goes on.
Below are some passages that stand out for me as excellent thinking and
research points for me to work with.
Victor suggests, asks, points out:
* that I am
by Karl Marx
andthe thinkers he inspired' marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 20:03
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
Victor :
CB,
Continued from last message.
First, let's not forget that a lot of human learning is human see human
do. And some
, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
Victor:
I'm not sure of it either.
However, it appears to me that we can distinguish social labour, direct
cooperation, from characteristically human labour, that is social labour
that is special since it involves the production and use of tools for
realization of material
' marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 17:08
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! :BakhurstVictor
Victor
CB: Here we see why the transgenerational transmission of how to
make and use tools is the key type of social connection defining humans
6/22/2005 +0200, Victor wrote:
Hegel regards objectification as simply the alienation of spirit in the
object. The ideal itself is the alienated spirit that has become a
universal through the mediation of language. True, I've not addressed the
problem of whether Hegel regarded labour activity
I am responding to a 6/22/2005 post from Victor, which I quote from.
The quote below is a good example of where I think Victor gets Ilyenkov
wrong 180 degrees. In the general section of Ilyenkov's 1977 essay The
Concept of the Ideal that Victor quotes from, I believe Ilyenkov is
making just
AM 6/21/2005 +0200, Victor wrote:
- Original Message - From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:17
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
What in bloody hell does this mean?
At 09:32 AM 6/21/2005 +0200
the reasonably clear first and third sentences
of the first paragraph and the first sentence of the second paragraph.
At 07:51 PM 6/20/2005 +0200, Victor wrote:
I regard Ilyenkov's contribution rather as the Logic (method or met) for a
practical (materialist or natural science) of ethics (ethos
6/19/2005 +0200, Victor wrote:
Ideality like spoken language is not one thing or another, but two things,
the objectified notion in consciousness and its material representation by
some form of language, united as a more concrete concept, the ideal. The
ideal cannot just be a manifestation
- Original Message -
From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:17
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
What in bloody hell does this mean?
At 09:32 AM 6/21/2005 +0200, Victor wrote:
Science
@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 15:43
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
Victor
The social relations are not embodied in a particular coat or in a
particular bale of linen. These are material objects whose concreteness
are
beyond the capacity of human conceptualisation
, 2005 10:11
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
Victor,
I have read your response carefully. I think I am getting a handle on our
differing approaches. They seem to emerge in the way we understand issues
such as:
a) where is ideality located?
b) where is value is located
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
Victor,
I spent a little time reviewing Ilyenkov's article The Concept of the
Ideal (available on MIA ), and the notes I published on xmca about it
last year. Below, I have copied paragraphs 66 - 90 from EVI's
142-paragraph essay. I don't
, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
Hi Victor,
Interestingly, footnote one in a paper by Lantolf and Thorne that is
getting discussed on the xmca list - the paper is at
http://communication.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/JuneJuly05/LantolfThorne2005.pdfIntroduction,
in Sociocultural Theory and the Genesis of Second
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 2:10
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! :Bakhurst
Hi Victor,
If I am getting your first point, that Bakhurst incorrectly takes Diamat
as serious theory, then you are speaking to what I referred
Positive.
They appear to be fooling around with the organization of the site. So far
they've mostly succeeded in making searches more difficult.
Oudeyis
- Original Message -
From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005
PM 6/7/2005 +0200, Victor wrote:
..
The fact that life forms activities are directed to concrete future
states, they are, no matter how simple or mechanical, exercises in reason.
This why, if you will permit a reference to an earlier thread, I regard
the investigation
@lists.econ.utah.edu
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 16:22
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics!
Yes, I have this book somewhere. So are you going to forward your review
to this list?
At 03:31 PM 6/7/2005 +0200, Victor wrote:
Unfortunately, the mainstay of Western interpretations
the human hand applies also to the brain, language organs,
bipedalism, etc. so I will try to make a case for that. And I have been
enjoying the exchanges between Ralph and Victor, especially on the issues
of the role of practice in science, the nature of scientific thought, and
the big
This apparent piece of nonsense of mine is the key issue in a nutshell. It
embodies almost all the issues of our discussion, our differences (and I
might add our concordances): the determination of rationality, of
objectivity and of men's relation to nature and nature's to men.
These issues are
My full response is in the prior message. So here I'll just make a couple of
short responses (see below).
- Original Message -
From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 4:24
Subject: Re:
The problem here is simply that I'm not sure of the ground of our
discussion. If this is tautological to you, then we share at very least the
point of view that science is at root a product of men's response to their
needs and not simply a reflection of the universe in consciousness.
Oudeyis
I've inteleaved my comments in the foliage of your commentary.
- Original Message -
From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:51
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics!
Interleaved comments on
: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics!
Victor victor
Of course objectivity reality exists, but we have to realize that what
Marx,
Lenin and other intelligent Marxists like Ilyenkov meant by objective
reality is not reality contemplated by some totally uninvolved
philosophical being. Just the reverse
Sorry,
Had a major technical breakdown.
About the only thing of Marx's early writings that relates to science is his
1844 Critique of Hegelian Philosophy (At the end of the article he devotes
about a page and a half to discussion the movement from Logic to Nature in
Hegel's Encyclopaedia of
Did some further checking in MIA and you're quite correct, even when Marx
discusses ancient astrology it, he treats it as a practical solution to a
human problem, i.e. as a cosmic calendar, compass and clock. From the point
of view of Historical materialism the importance of science, even
True, hunters and gatherers do not raise their own food, but they do produce
instruments that enhance if not enable the effectivity of their subsistence
activity. Developed hunting and gathering practice appears often to be
accompanied by collecting strategies that encourage the preservation of
Of course objectivity reality exists, but we have to realize that what Marx,
Lenin and other intelligent Marxists like Ilyenkov meant by objective
reality is not reality contemplated by some totally uninvolved
philosophical being. Just the reverse is true objective reality is only
known
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