[MCN-L] Fwd: folksonomy article
Nick Well said! You've saved me blogging the same frustrations with this article. I would add to your response that folksonomies are often about aiding discoverability rather than about classifying. Whilst the Steve project may be more about 'how do i desribe this' other implementations of folksonomies (Powerhouse Museum's collection or del.icio.us etc) are more about opening up new ways, dare i say rhizomatic ways, of finding objects. When combined with free text searching and traditional ontologies, folksonomies often aid users in discovering other objects/records/items that otherwise would be near impossible to dredge up from the information depths. seb Sebastian Chan Manager, Web Services Powerhouse Museum street - 500 Harris St Ultimo, NSW Australia postal - PO Box K346, Haymarket, NSW 1238 tel - 61 2 9217 0109 fax - 61 2 9217 0689 e - sebc at phm.gov.au w - www.powerhousemuseum.com -Original Message- From: mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu on behalf of Nick Poole Sent: Mon 11/20/2006 4:39 AM To: 'Museum Computer Network Listserv' Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Fwd: folksonomy article Jeanette et al, I was really interested in the post around the 'Beneath the Metadata' article. I actually think the article has some pretty deep flaws. First of all, it is not entirely clear why you would apply these philosophical constructs to Folksonomy in the first place and secondly I don't think it helps to further the understanding of what Folksonomy and 'traditional' cataloguing are and how they might work together. The article essentially says that classification is about absolutes - this horse is white, that box is empty - whereas Folksonomy is about subjectivity and relativism. It goes on to compare classification with propositional logic and states that Folksonomy by its nature gives rise to logical contradiction. It strikes me that this misses a significant part of the real value of the approach. In her article, Elaine Peterson says that when we catalogue, we are asking the question 'What is it?'. I couldn't disagree more. What we are really asking is 'What are we going to call this thing (and things relevantly similar to it)?'. In this sense, 'traditional' classification is an act of collective relativism, and is equally subject to the flaws of subjectivity as Folksonomy. I have no doubt that the wave around Folksonomy will eventually pass, and I very much hope that what will be left is an enriched approach to professional classification. There is considerable strength in a hybrid approach which retains the intellectual rigour of ontological standardisation but which equally recognises the additional potential value of large-scale subjective term-attribution. For example, would it not validate our professional beliefs if the subjective interpretations of tens of thousands of people translated up into patterns of meaning which confirmed them? And similarly, if they don't, wouldn't there be considerable value in asking why not? Finally, whatever the linguistic consistency or validity of folksonomic thesauri, we must never underestimate the importance of letting people in. The act of tagging is only partly to do with classification. It is an affirmative act which says 'I want to be involved' and for that alone, it is of tremendous value. Nick Poole Director Museum Documentation Association Nick Poole Director MDA The Spectrum Building, The Michael Young Centre, Purbeck Road, Cambridge, CB2 2PD Telephone: 01223 415 760 http://www.mda.org.uk http://www.collectionsforall.org.uk The revised edition of SPECTRUM, the UK museum documentation standard, is now available. Download it for free at: http://www.mda.org.uk/spectrum.htm -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of amalyah keshet Sent: 18 November 2006 11:00 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Fwd: folksonomy article Thanks for forwarding this. Good article. Amalyah Keshet At 20:33 17/11/2006, you wrote: Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:41:44 -0800 Sender: Visual Resources Association VRA-L at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU From: Jeanette Mills jcmills at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Subject: folksonomy article To: VRA-L at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Hello everyone -- Considering the recent discussions of folksonomy, I thought this article in the most recent issue of D-Lib might be of interest. I don't think it's been mentioned yet. Beneath the Metadata: Some Philosophical Problems with Folksonomy Elaine Peterson, Montana State University http://www.dlib.org/dlib/november06/peterson/11peterson.html Jeanette = Jeanette C. Mills, MA + MLIS Director of Visual Services Newsletter Editor School of Art, University of Washington jcmills at u dot washington dot edu 206-543-0649 = -- Diane M. Zorich 113 Gallup Road Princeton, NJ 08542 USA Voice:
[MCN-L] Fwd: folksonomy article
Well said. As Mal Booth replied, folksonomy can scare some people. I think that kind of gets to the crux of the matter, seeing as the library and archives people (and a lot of museums, too!) have done such a fantastic job of classifying everything, and now here's this upstart way of thinking about naming stuff which threatens to undermine that tidy order! Given the shifting nature of language, it would seem to me that folksonomy would assist classification systems - identifying terminologies which are outmoded and outdated. After all, isn't the whole point to help people find and identify stuff? How can they do that if they don't know the words something is classified under? Thus, getting to that hybrid model Nick was suggesting, folksonomy is certainly an aid and not a hindrance. Perian Sully Collection Database and Records Administrator Judah L. Magnes Museum Berkeley, CA Nick Poole nick at mda.org.uk 20/11/2006 4:39 am Jeanette et al, I was really interested in the post around the 'Beneath the Metadata' article. I actually think the article has some pretty deep flaws. First of all, it is not entirely clear why you would apply these philosophical constructs to Folksonomy in the first place and secondly I don't think it helps to further the understanding of what Folksonomy and 'traditional' cataloguing are and how they might work together. The article essentially says that classification is about absolutes - this horse is white, that box is empty - whereas Folksonomy is about subjectivity and relativism. It goes on to compare classification with propositional logic and states that Folksonomy by its nature gives rise to logical contradiction. It strikes me that this misses a significant part of the real value of the approach. In her article, Elaine Peterson says that when we catalogue, we are asking the question 'What is it?'. I couldn't disagree more. What we are really asking is 'What are we going to call this thing (and things relevantly similar to it)?'. In this sense, 'traditional' classification is an act of collective relativism, and is equally subject to the flaws of subjectivity as Folksonomy. I have no doubt that the wave around Folksonomy will eventually pass, and I very much hope that what will be left is an enriched approach to professional classification. There is considerable strength in a hybrid approach which retains the intellectual rigour of ontological standardisation but which equally recognises the additional potential value of large-scale subjective term-attribution. For example, would it not validate our professional beliefs if the subjective interpretations of tens of thousands of people translated up into patterns of meaning which confirmed them? And similarly, if they don't, wouldn't there be considerable value in asking why not? Finally, whatever the linguistic consistency or validity of folksonomic thesauri, we must never underestimate the importance of letting people in. The act of tagging is only partly to do with classification. It is an affirmative act which says 'I want to be involved' and for that alone, it is of tremendous value. Nick Poole Director Museum Documentation Association Nick Poole Director MDA The Spectrum Building, The Michael Young Centre, Purbeck Road, Cambridge, CB2 2PD Telephone: 01223 415 760 http://www.mda.org.uk ( http://www.mda.org.uk/ ) http://www.collectionsforall.org.uk ( http://www.collectionsforall.org.uk/ ) The revised edition of SPECTRUM, the UK museum documentation standard, is now available. Download it for free at: http://www.mda.org.uk/spectrum.htm -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of amalyah keshet Sent: 18 November 2006 11:00 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Fwd: folksonomy article Thanks for forwarding this. Good article. Amalyah Keshet At 20:33 17/11/2006, you wrote: Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:41:44 -0800 Sender: Visual Resources Association VRA-L at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU From: Jeanette Mills jcmills at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Subject: folksonomy article To: VRA-L at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Hello everyone -- Considering the recent discussions of folksonomy, I thought this article in the most recent issue of D-Lib might be of interest. I don't think it's been mentioned yet. Beneath the Metadata: Some Philosophical Problems with Folksonomy Elaine Peterson, Montana State University http://www.dlib.org/dlib/november06/peterson/11peterson.html Jeanette = Jeanette C. Mills, MA + MLIS Director of Visual Services Newsletter Editor School of Art, University of Washington jcmills at u dot washington dot edu 206-543-0649 = -- Diane M. Zorich 113 Gallup Road Princeton, NJ
[MCN-L] Job Posting - University of Michigan - Digital Library Production Service - Media Digital Photographer
The Digital Library Production Service at the University of Michigan is now accepting applications for the position of Media Digital Photographer. This position is responsible for digital imaging of rare, fragile and complex objects, such as papyri, rare books and photographs, and oversized materials that cannot be sent offsite. The person in this position needs to know about traditional photographic and lighting techniques, as well as emerging digital imaging standards and technologies. In addition, familiarity with copy stand photography and library materials is desired. Basic Function and Responsibilities: The Photographer/Digital Imaging Specialist performs photographic and digital scanning activities. In particular: * Perform photographic and digital imaging work, including imaging of complex, rare and fragile library materials. 75% * Develop new image capture methods and procedures, recommend new equipment, and modify equipment, methods and procedures to meet requirements of specific assignments. Plan and implement quantitative and qualitative quality control procedures for the unit, including device characterization and monitoring, routine equipment calibration, and appropriate inspection procedures. Implement color management routines where appropriate. Plan and schedule the production assignments of the unit and review original specifications and final products on individual projects. 10% * Determine equipment needs and specifications in conjunction with Purchasing and outside vendors, and recommend equipment purchases. Monitor and approve expenditures for materials and services. 5% * Work with colleagues to develop and implement the capture and storage of appropriate administrative and technical metadata to support long-term preservation of digital images. Monitor and modify procedures and workflow routines to conform with emerging community preservation standards. Attend and participate in conferences and seminars on the latest developments in the photographic and digital imaging field. 5% * Produce appropriate documentation and reports. 5% Supervision Received: This position reports to the Digital Library Production Manager Qualifications Required: * Bachelor's degree or an equivalent combination of education and experience is necessary. * Considerable knowledge of the methods, materials and equipment used in photography, particularly studio or copy photography. * Considerable knowledge of the technical concepts, methods, materials, software and equipment used in digital imaging, color management and manipulation of image files. * Demonstrated experience using Adobe Photoshop and other image processing software to create high quality digital images. * Ability to work in a collegial environment. * Excellent oral and written communication skills. * Excellent organizational and project management skills, and attention to detail. Preferred: * Bachelor's or MFA in photography preferred. * Experience with handling rare or archival materials, and with copystand photography. * Certification from a recognized program in photographic preservation and archival training, or equivalent experience, preferred. * Knowledge of Windows, Macintosh, and Unix operating systems and productivity software sufficient to perform file management tasks (navigating within directory trees, moving files, renaming files, creating directories, etc.). Applicants interested in applying for this position can go to the University of Michigan Human Resources Website: http://www.umich.edu/~jobs/ Search for Posting #5096 as a detailed search. Fill out the online application form. Review of applications will begin on December 4, 2006; but applications submitted later may be considered. Questions about the positions may be directed to Christopher Rennie, Digital Library Production Manager, at ccrennie at umich.edu
[MCN-L] Fwd: folksonomy article
Along those lines... I have always found that filtering the log of a website for search transactions is an invaluable and interesting tool for assessing the content the site is delivering. Particularly useful are reasonable searches that returned no results for they are an indicator of content gaps. I think that folksonomies can be useful to formal classification structures in a similar way. For example, asking the residents of Philadelphia to pitch in on building the set of micro-neighborhoods (The Brickyard, The Valley, etc) within the standard (and beloved!) set (Germantown, Old City, Northern Liberties, ...) might add a vibrant layer to the structure of an oral history site. I think we all agree that we are grateful for the formal structures and the intellectual heavy lifting they represent. I expect we also all agree that they reflect their time and their architects and that they need to evolve. My suggestion - let the Classifiers and the Folksonomers sit down at a Tavern twice a year and work it out. Bob Leming Rock River Star -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Perian Sully Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 11:28 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Fwd: folksonomy article Well said. As Mal Booth replied, folksonomy can scare some people. I think that kind of gets to the crux of the matter, seeing as the library and archives people (and a lot of museums, too!) have done such a fantastic job of classifying everything, and now here's this upstart way of thinking about naming stuff which threatens to undermine that tidy order! Given the shifting nature of language, it would seem to me that folksonomy would assist classification systems - identifying terminologies which are outmoded and outdated. After all, isn't the whole point to help people find and identify stuff? How can they do that if they don't know the words something is classified under? Thus, getting to that hybrid model Nick was suggesting, folksonomy is certainly an aid and not a hindrance. Perian Sully Collection Database and Records Administrator Judah L. Magnes Museum Berkeley, CA Nick Poole nick at mda.org.uk 20/11/2006 4:39 am Jeanette et al, I was really interested in the post around the 'Beneath the Metadata' article. I actually think the article has some pretty deep flaws. First of all, it is not entirely clear why you would apply these philosophical constructs to Folksonomy in the first place and secondly I don't think it helps to further the understanding of what Folksonomy and 'traditional' cataloguing are and how they might work together. The article essentially says that classification is about absolutes - this horse is white, that box is empty - whereas Folksonomy is about subjectivity and relativism. It goes on to compare classification with propositional logic and states that Folksonomy by its nature gives rise to logical contradiction. It strikes me that this misses a significant part of the real value of the approach. In her article, Elaine Peterson says that when we catalogue, we are asking the question 'What is it?'. I couldn't disagree more. What we are really asking is 'What are we going to call this thing (and things relevantly similar to it)?'. In this sense, 'traditional' classification is an act of collective relativism, and is equally subject to the flaws of subjectivity as Folksonomy. I have no doubt that the wave around Folksonomy will eventually pass, and I very much hope that what will be left is an enriched approach to professional classification. There is considerable strength in a hybrid approach which retains the intellectual rigour of ontological standardisation but which equally recognises the additional potential value of large-scale subjective term-attribution. For example, would it not validate our professional beliefs if the subjective interpretations of tens of thousands of people translated up into patterns of meaning which confirmed them? And similarly, if they don't, wouldn't there be considerable value in asking why not? Finally, whatever the linguistic consistency or validity of folksonomic thesauri, we must never underestimate the importance of letting people in. The act of tagging is only partly to do with classification. It is an affirmative act which says 'I want to be involved' and for that alone, it is of tremendous value. Nick Poole Director Museum Documentation Association Nick Poole Director MDA The Spectrum Building, The Michael Young Centre, Purbeck Road, Cambridge, CB2 2PD Telephone: 01223 415 760 http://www.mda.org.uk ( http://www.mda.org.uk/ ) http://www.collectionsforall.org.uk ( http://www.collectionsforall.org.uk/ ) The revised edition of SPECTRUM, the UK museum documentation standard, is now available. Download it for free at: http://www.mda.org.uk/spectrum.htm
[MCN-L] metadata for dummies
Hi list of smart people much more knowledgeable than me: I'm trying to wrap my brain around the technical aspects of metadata sharing and structures, reading though (and not entirely comprehending) a lot of different sources. As I am a visual, hands-on type learner, I'm trying to put everything I'm reading into non-technical language this neophyte can understand. I'm pretty sure I've got #'s 2-4 wrong, but can anyone help me unravel this? 1) You have objects. You apply vocabularies to the objects in order to describe them. The vocabularies facilitate how your object information is seen by other computers. Examples of Vocabularies are: AAT, ULAN, Chenhall's (I understand #1 pretty well. Here's where I start to get lost...) 2) In order for the other computers to understand what you're giving them, the information needs to be arranged in a specific way. These are the element sets...? these are MARC, LOC, VRA, Dublin Core 3) Because very few institutions have pure collections that fit into one of the Vocabularies, we can use multiple Vocabularies. Do we use multiples of #2 as well? These are defined and plugged into the element sets. They are tagged as belonging to a specific Vocabulary (I think there's a middle piece in here I'm missing) 4) There is an umbrella structure, the Harvester, which can read #2 and serve it to the user in readable form. Examples: OAI, MARC (also fits as a #2), XML So as you can see, I'm dreadfully muddled. I know it's important to understand it, but I'm just not able to wrap my head around the various resources out there. I'm starting to think that Ask A Ninja is more my level... Help! and thanks in advance -- Perian Sully Collection Database and Records Administrator Judah L. Magnes Museum 2911 Russell St. Berkeley, CA 94705 510-549-6950 x 335
[MCN-L] metadata for dummies
Hi Perian, Here's my two bits about metadata -- not as terribly informed as I ought to be but hopefully that will mean that it's more simplistic as a result. First off, metadata isn't a term originating from the cultural heritage community so its usage within the library, museum and archives communities is almost grafted in and misunderstandings abound. In fact, it comes from the database science community (I think Bo Sundgren coined the term but I'm not entirely certain at this point) where it makes the most sense. Simply put, it is data about data which, as explanations go, does not explain a lot. However, within the context of databases, it does make a lot of sense. Since databases are really just big tables of information, what you can do with a specific row and column is determined by what you know of that particular row or column. Consider a column in a database called registration date. If a computer is programmed to recognize any value within that column as a piece of text, then there's not a lot you can do with it. But if that same value is number, suddenly you can do a lot more. For instance, you could determine whether a value fell within a range of values. So identifying that a column in a database is a column of integer values is an example of metadata. In the cultural heritage community, it has been applied to a number of areas, some of which existed pre-metadata in the cultural heritage community. Take the library community for example -- most library people simply assume that the majority of metadata applied in this new era of digital objects is what already existed as cataloging. The traditional library catalogue entry would not contain information about who owned the book prior to the library however -- even if the book came from special collections. Museums, on the other, would have great interest in the object's provenance. The result is that each domain typically assumes that what it considers important about an object represents the entirety of what should be known about an object. In the connected world, this view is changing and hence, the use of metadata as a catch all term that covers all pieces of data that describes a digital object, regardless of the domain that it comes from. Broadly, an object can have information about what it is (descriptive metadata), how it's made (technical metadata), the process used to make it (administrative metadata), what it's made up of (structural metadata), what you need to know to protect it (preservation metadata) and how to use it (audience metadata, behavioral metadata, intent metadata). Within each of these categories of metadata, there are rules for the specific attributes of an object. Dublin core, VRA, MIX, MARC are all examples of this -- they provide a list of attributes within the context of the category of metadata that can be applied an object (e.g. title, creator, description). Generally, these rules do not have a specific way they need to be formatted -- MARC being a notable exception as its origins can be traced back to the era of the punch card. Standards like SGML, XML and specific DTDs/schemas for each of these provide the rules for how to format the information into a way that machines can use them. There are also rules for how the information within a given attribute is formatted and what should be included like CCO and AACR2 -- for instance, what to do with the initial article in a title or what constitutes a title as opposed to a subtitle. Because we'd all like to do things in the same way if possible (so that it's easier to cooperate), people will put out lists of standardized values for a given attribute so that everyone's working on the same page -- LCSH/LCC/DCC for subject headings for instance and things like AAT and ULAN. Finally, we want our system to talk to other peoples' systems so we need to put together a list of rules for how systems talk -- OAI, Z39.50 and SOAP are examples for how systems can bundle everything together and send it to another system. Also of note is how those bundles are structured -- these represent standards like METS, SCORM and MPEG-21 DIDL. Tim Perian Sully wrote: Hi list of smart people much more knowledgeable than me: I'm trying to wrap my brain around the technical aspects of metadata sharing and structures, reading though (and not entirely comprehending) a lot of different sources. As I am a visual, hands-on type learner, I'm trying to put everything I'm reading into non-technical language this neophyte can understand. I'm pretty sure I've got #'s 2-4 wrong, but can anyone help me unravel this? 1) You have objects. You apply vocabularies to the objects in order to describe them. The vocabularies facilitate how your object information is seen by other computers. Examples of Vocabularies are: AAT, ULAN, Chenhall's (I understand #1 pretty well. Here's where I start to get lost...) 2) In order
[MCN-L] metadata for dummies
Hi Perian- 1) You have objects. You apply vocabularies to the objects in order to describe them. The vocabularies facilitate how your object information is seen by other computers. Examples of Vocabularies are: AAT, ULAN, Chenhall's (I understand #1 pretty well. Here's where I start to get lost...) Yep, you're right on target here. 2) In order for the other computers to understand what you're giving them, the information needs to be arranged in a specific way. These are the element sets...? these are MARC, LOC, VRA, Dublin Core The element sets provide the buckets (fields) into which the vocabulary terms you've chosen go. They also generally have buckets for bits of information that a controlled vocabulary doesn't necessarily cover, such as dimensions of an art work. All of the relevant elements together form one metadata record for the item. These standards are sometimes called element sets, or data structure standards. I'd take LOC off of this list. If you're referring to the Library of Congress Subject Headings, those go in #1, with AAT, etc. 3) Because very few institutions have pure collections that fit into one of the Vocabularies, we can use multiple Vocabularies. Do we use multiples of #2 as well? These are defined and plugged into the element sets. They are tagged as belonging to a specific Vocabulary You don't need separate records when you are using more than one vocabulary to describe your items. More robust (or complicated, depending on your perspective) metadata structure standards allow you to specify the controlled vocabulary used for individual elements for which it's likely a controlled vocabulary will be used. Most don't require one is used at all or specify which one, but when you do use one you can often say which one you did use. For example, in CDWA Lite, the subjectTerm element has a termsource attribute in which you say which vocabulary the value came from. MODS in the library world has similar functions. But not all metadata structure standards provide this capability. Simple Dublin Core (the 15 element set, without qualifiers) provides no way to say what vocabulary an entry came from. Qualified Dublin Core adds this capability for subjects. (I think there's a middle piece in here I'm missing) I think the missing piece in here is use of this date for local retrieval. In your local environment, you can control the data and the assumptions made about it. So even if you're using a data structure standard that doesn't let you say which vocabulary is used for a given field, if you always use the same one, you know that and can correct for it. This isn't as easy in the shared environment. In your local system, you probably will have some (but maybe small) level of control over how this data displays to the user - which fields show, etc. 4) There is an umbrella structure, the Harvester, which can read #2 and serve it to the user in readable form. Examples: OAI, MARC (also fits as a #2), XML I think the label for what you're getting at here is protocols for metadata sharing. The harvester (an OAI term noting a service that comes and gets your metadata to pool it together with metadata from other institutions) facilitates one-stop searching of resources from multiple places. I think what's important here is that there are a number of protocols which promote metadata sharing. OAI is one of them, that operates on the harvesting model, pre-fetching metadata before searches happen. Z39.50 and SRU are other protocols, that operate on a federated searching model where a user query is simultaneously sent to multiple places and the results are then aggregated for display to the user. All of these are specifications for how the communication between you with the interesting resources and the aggregator who provides multi-collection searching works. They define *how* the metadata you have gets from you to the aggregator. So OAI is a *protocol*, not a metadata format. MARC is a metadata format used in libraries both for local systems and for sharing, so it goes in both #4 and the in-between step before it. XML is simply a meta-language that allows you to specify data structure standards like those in #2 above. Hope this helps! Jenn Jenn Riley Metadata Librarian Digital Library Program Indiana University - Bloomington Wells Library E170 (812) 856-5759 www.dlib.indiana.edu Inquiring Librarian blog: www.inquiringlibrarian.blogspot.com
[MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems
Hi, all-- Last summer was the most recent discussion I've found on MCN-L about Drupal as a content management system, and I was wondering whether anybody has done any recent comparison between Drupal and WordPress (especially WordPress MU) as a website CMS. We're planning on using one or the other as part of a complete site redesign: using the content we currently have as a base, but updating the overall site design and navigation; permitting content editing by multiple staffers; and providing a more sophisticated integration of social media (multiple blogs among other things). So we're trying to get a read on the current state of these two platforms. Along with general opinions about ease of use and the their development communities, we're interested in: * ability to handle heavy traffic * security * how well customizations roll from upgrade to upgrade * social media integration Any and all opinions, pro and con, about either Drupal or WordPress MU (or both) would be most appreciated! I'm happy to write up a summary post of anything I hear (and to clarify if needed). Many thanks! --Eric Eric D. M. Johnson New Media Specialist Monticello P.O. Box 316 Charlottesville, VA 22902 Phone: (434) 984-7570 | Fax: (434) 977-6140 http://www.monticello.org/ ejohnson at monticello.orgmailto:ejohnson at monticello.org
[MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems
Please reply to the list. We're interested in this topic and I bet we're not alone. Thanks! Laura -- Laura Mann Business Development Director Mediatrope Interactive Studio 207 Powell Street, 3rd Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 415.896.2000 x19 voice 415.896.2212 fax www.mediatrope.com On 2/22/10 12:44 PM, Eric Johnson ejohnson at monticello.org wrote: Hi, all-- Last summer was the most recent discussion I've found on MCN-L about Drupal as a content management system, and I was wondering whether anybody has done any recent comparison between Drupal and WordPress (especially WordPress MU) as a website CMS. We're planning on using one or the other as part of a complete site redesign: using the content we currently have as a base, but updating the overall site design and navigation; permitting content editing by multiple staffers; and providing a more sophisticated integration of social media (multiple blogs among other things). So we're trying to get a read on the current state of these two platforms. Along with general opinions about ease of use and the their development communities, we're interested in: * ability to handle heavy traffic * security * how well customizations roll from upgrade to upgrade * social media integration Any and all opinions, pro and con, about either Drupal or WordPress MU (or both) would be most appreciated! I'm happy to write up a summary post of anything I hear (and to clarify if needed). Many thanks! --Eric Eric D. M. Johnson New Media Specialist Monticello P.O. Box 316 Charlottesville, VA 22902 Phone: (434) 984-7570 | Fax: (434) 977-6140 http://www.monticello.org/ ejohnson at monticello.orgmailto:ejohnson at monticello.org ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/
[MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems
Here is a site where you can get a comparison of just about any cms with any other. http://www.cmsmatrix.org/ I think Drupal is a little more robust than Wordpress in terms of features, plug-ins, etc. Wordpress is more often than not just used as a blog and is also capable of managing a site, whereas Drupal is used to manage sites but can also contain a blog, if you can draw that distinction. We just implemented a Drupal site as a work-in-progess, and so far so good. Gerald Gerald Reese Webmaster Oakland Museum of California 1000 Oak Street Oakland, CA 94607 510/238-4746 www.museumca.org On 2/22/10 12:44 PM, Eric Johnson ejohnson at monticello.org wrote: Hi, all-- Last summer was the most recent discussion I've found on MCN-L about Drupal as a content management system, and I was wondering whether anybody has done any recent comparison between Drupal and WordPress (especially WordPress MU) as a website CMS. We're planning on using one or the other as part of a complete site redesign: using the content we currently have as a base, but updating the overall site design and navigation; permitting content editing by multiple staffers; and providing a more sophisticated integration of social media (multiple blogs among other things). So we're trying to get a read on the current state of these two platforms. Along with general opinions about ease of use and the their development communities, we're interested in: * ability to handle heavy traffic * security * how well customizations roll from upgrade to upgrade * social media integration Any and all opinions, pro and con, about either Drupal or WordPress MU (or both) would be most appreciated! I'm happy to write up a summary post of anything I hear (and to clarify if needed). Many thanks! --Eric Eric D. M. Johnson New Media Specialist Monticello P.O. Box 316 Charlottesville, VA 22902 Phone: (434) 984-7570 | Fax: (434) 977-6140 http://www.monticello.org/ ejohnson at monticello.orgmailto:ejohnson at monticello.org ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/
[MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems
Hi Eric, I can't really say I've done a comparison between Drupal and Wordpress MU as a CMS but I do have some thoughts to share. Fundamentally I've found Wordpress to be quite different from drupal. First off Wordpress is a blogging platform, and MU is for running more than one blog on a single install. Lot's of people use Wordpress as a CMS but it's generally referred to as a hack, to which I tend to agree trying it in the past. Drupal on the other hand is a CMS through and through. It is much better suited for running an institution's website. We use it here, so I am quite biased. In my honest opinion, I would not consider Wordpress for anything besides a dedicated blog. For something like a website (and one with social interaction) Drupal word be my choice. With that in mind, I will focus on Drupal as I touch on your bullet points. As an PHP developer, I find Drupal extremely powerful and flexible. If you don't like something, you can override it yourself, install a module, or do it some other way. There is a huge community for Drupal, each module has an issue queue where you may report bugs and questions. There are active mailing lists, IRC channels, forums etc and best of all Google where you can find all kinds of info and developer blogs. There is a learning curve but if you know html / css and basic PHP eg print, foreach, and working with arrays as well as some linux experience you should be fine. In a few weeks you will know your way around the admin area, have a basic understanding of views, panels, and CCK. Once you are proficient, you can build a moderately complex site within a week easily. Content editing by multiple staffers: We have setup roles for each dept that provides content, and then assigned one person in that dept to manage posting (someone comfortable with posting blogs and pages to the web, and can understand BASIC html.) Once a user has a role you can pair down hundreds of permissions to limit them, and again, if it not there you can code a permission yourself. Social media integration: Hundreds of modules are available for this. Search projects on drupal.org and see what you can find, more than likely something exists. Speed: Drupal's performance is directly related to how many modules you have within your installation. We have our PHP memory limit set to 128mb which is recommended. If your site is slowing down, you just throw more hardware at it. Drupal's performance is much faster than Wordpress which is notorious for succumbing to events like the Digg Effect. Upgrades: Core upgrades, especially point releases are usually quite simple and do not require anything more than patching. We patch our installs following this site: http://fuerstnet.de/en/drupal-upgrade-easier which makes patching a 10 minute affair. Major releases obviously require reworking of templates and modules, as code is depreciated for better functionality, but the hassle rewards itself with everything else you are now able to do. The core upgrades are fairly easy to do and is directly related to how complex your site actually is. I hope this helps anyone considering Drupal as a platform for their next website or redesign. I would also like to add that Drupal is open enough that we are currently developing direct integration with our collection management system to allow the public to browse it right from Drupal itself. If anyone has any questions, please let me know. I will be following this discussion. -- Ryan Hartman Web Developer Amon Carter Museum 3501 Camp Bowie Blvd., Ft. Worth, TX 76107 t: 817.989.5047 http://www.cartermuseum.org From: Eric Johnson ejohnson at monticello.org Reply-To: Museum Computer Network Listserv mcn-l at mcn.edu Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:44:50 -0500 To: 'mcn-l at mcn.edu' mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems Hi, all-- Last summer was the most recent discussion I've found on MCN-L about Drupal as a content management system, and I was wondering whether anybody has done any recent comparison between Drupal and WordPress (especially WordPress MU) as a website CMS. We're planning on using one or the other as part of a complete site redesign: using the content we currently have as a base, but updating the overall site design and navigation; permitting content editing by multiple staffers; and providing a more sophisticated integration of social media (multiple blogs among other things). So we're trying to get a read on the current state of these two platforms. Along with general opinions about ease of use and the their development communities, we're interested in: * ability to handle heavy traffic * security * how well customizations roll from upgrade to upgrade * social media integration Any and all opinions, pro and con, about either Drupal or WordPress MU (or both) would be most appreciated! I'm happy to write up a summary post of anything I hear (and to clarify if needed).
[MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems
WRT the digg effect and Wordpress - wordpress installs MUST have a cache-ing plugin installed. We use WP Super Cache which has saved us from a lot of pain. I'd not suggest a high traffic site uses WP as a CMS for the whole site but for small orgs Wordpress can do the job quite well and has a flatter learning curve than Drupal. Seb Sebastian Chan A/g Head of Digital, Social Emerging Technologies Powerhouse Museum street - 500 Harris St Ultimo, NSW Australia postal - PO Box K346, Haymarket, NSW 1238 tel - 61 2 9217 0109 mob - 61 (0) 413 457 126 fax - 61 2 9217 0689 e - sebc at phm.gov.au w - www.powerhousemuseum.com b - www.powerhousemuseum.com/dmsblog -- This email and attachments are for the use of the intended recipient(s) only and may contain confidential or legally privileged information or material that is copyright of Powerhouse Museum or a third party. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. Any views expressed in this message and attachments are those of the individual sender and the Powerhouse Museum accepts no liability for the content of this message. -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Ryan Hartman Sent: Tuesday, 23 February 2010 9:02 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems Hi Eric, I can't really say I've done a comparison between Drupal and Wordpress MU as a CMS but I do have some thoughts to share. Fundamentally I've found Wordpress to be quite different from drupal. First off Wordpress is a blogging platform, and MU is for running more than one blog on a single install. Lot's of people use Wordpress as a CMS but it's generally referred to as a hack, to which I tend to agree trying it in the past. Drupal on the other hand is a CMS through and through. It is much better suited for running an institution's website. We use it here, so I am quite biased. In my honest opinion, I would not consider Wordpress for anything besides a dedicated blog. For something like a website (and one with social interaction) Drupal word be my choice. With that in mind, I will focus on Drupal as I touch on your bullet points. As an PHP developer, I find Drupal extremely powerful and flexible. If you don't like something, you can override it yourself, install a module, or do it some other way. There is a huge community for Drupal, each module has an issue queue where you may report bugs and questions. There are active mailing lists, IRC channels, forums etc and best of all Google where you can find all kinds of info and developer blogs. There is a learning curve but if you know html / css and basic PHP eg print, foreach, and working with arrays as well as some linux experience you should be fine. In a few weeks you will know your way around the admin area, have a basic understanding of views, panels, and CCK. Once you are proficient, you can build a moderately complex site within a week easily. Content editing by multiple staffers: We have setup roles for each dept that provides content, and then assigned one person in that dept to manage posting (someone comfortable with posting blogs and pages to the web, and can understand BASIC html.) Once a user has a role you can pair down hundreds of permissions to limit them, and again, if it not there you can code a permission yourself. Social media integration: Hundreds of modules are available for this. Search projects on drupal.org and see what you can find, more than likely something exists. Speed: Drupal's performance is directly related to how many modules you have within your installation. We have our PHP memory limit set to 128mb which is recommended. If your site is slowing down, you just throw more hardware at it. Drupal's performance is much faster than Wordpress which is notorious for succumbing to events like the Digg Effect. Upgrades: Core upgrades, especially point releases are usually quite simple and do not require anything more than patching. We patch our installs following this site: http://fuerstnet.de/en/drupal-upgrade-easier which makes patching a 10 minute affair. Major releases obviously require reworking of templates and modules, as code is depreciated for better functionality, but the hassle rewards itself with everything else you are now able to do. The core upgrades are fairly easy to do and is directly related to how complex your site actually is. I hope this helps anyone considering Drupal as a platform for their next website or redesign. I would also like to add that Drupal is open enough that we are currently developing direct integration with our collection management system to allow the
[MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems
I'm with Seb here. Our own Titus Bicknell is a whiz at making gorgeous Wordpress sites that have no blog components at all. Like http://www.marcus-wareing.com/ and http://www.gatewaycanyons.com/ Granted, though, that's a LOT of custom work. But it's nice to see what CAN be done. At Magnes, we're building our new site in Drupal, but leaving our blog and some other components in Wordpress for the simple reason that less tech-savvy folks need the lower learning-curve of WP. I'm no dummy when it comes to finding my way around a piece of software, but I have to admit that I'm finding Drupal a bit of a nightmare to work in and with. If I had my druthers, I'd do everything in Wordpress, but I know that it would take an awful lot more work to get it to look the way I'd want it to as a website. ~Perian Perian Sully Collections Information Manager Web Programs Strategist The Magnes Berkeley, CA -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Chan, Sebastian Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:43 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems WRT the digg effect and Wordpress - wordpress installs MUST have a cache-ing plugin installed. We use WP Super Cache which has saved us from a lot of pain. I'd not suggest a high traffic site uses WP as a CMS for the whole site but for small orgs Wordpress can do the job quite well and has a flatter learning curve than Drupal. Seb Sebastian Chan A/g Head of Digital, Social Emerging Technologies Powerhouse Museum street - 500 Harris St Ultimo, NSW Australia postal - PO Box K346, Haymarket, NSW 1238 tel - 61 2 9217 0109 mob - 61 (0) 413 457 126 fax - 61 2 9217 0689 e - sebc at phm.gov.au w - www.powerhousemuseum.com b - www.powerhousemuseum.com/dmsblog -- This email and attachments are for the use of the intended recipient(s) only and may contain confidential or legally privileged information or material that is copyright of Powerhouse Museum or a third party. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. Any views expressed in this message and attachments are those of the individual sender and the Powerhouse Museum accepts no liability for the content of this message. -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Ryan Hartman Sent: Tuesday, 23 February 2010 9:02 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems Hi Eric, I can't really say I've done a comparison between Drupal and Wordpress MU as a CMS but I do have some thoughts to share. Fundamentally I've found Wordpress to be quite different from drupal. First off Wordpress is a blogging platform, and MU is for running more than one blog on a single install. Lot's of people use Wordpress as a CMS but it's generally referred to as a hack, to which I tend to agree trying it in the past. Drupal on the other hand is a CMS through and through. It is much better suited for running an institution's website. We use it here, so I am quite biased. In my honest opinion, I would not consider Wordpress for anything besides a dedicated blog. For something like a website (and one with social interaction) Drupal word be my choice. With that in mind, I will focus on Drupal as I touch on your bullet points. As an PHP developer, I find Drupal extremely powerful and flexible. If you don't like something, you can override it yourself, install a module, or do it some other way. There is a huge community for Drupal, each module has an issue queue where you may report bugs and questions. There are active mailing lists, IRC channels, forums etc and best of all Google where you can find all kinds of info and developer blogs. There is a learning curve but if you know html / css and basic PHP eg print, foreach, and working with arrays as well as some linux experience you should be fine. In a few weeks you will know your way around the admin area, have a basic understanding of views, panels, and CCK. Once you are proficient, you can build a moderately complex site within a week easily. Content editing by multiple staffers: We have setup roles for each dept that provides content, and then assigned one person in that dept to manage posting (someone comfortable with posting blogs and pages to the web, and can understand BASIC html.) Once a user has a role you can pair down hundreds of permissions to limit them, and again, if it not there you can code a permission yourself. Social media integration: Hundreds of modules are available for this. Search projects on drupal.org and see what you can find, more than likely
[MCN-L] Drupal vs. WordPress MU as content management systems
We've done a half-dozen smaller sites in wordpress and I've flirted with the idea using wordpress for our primary site (www) but we've never gotten to actual implementation. Gerald's observation in this thread is a good one -- drupal started with the goal of being a comprehensive CMS and has worked it's way down the food chain, wordpress the reverse. However, I think the developer community around wordpress have decreased the pain point in wp playing as a grownup substantially. We started using wp because the back-end is surprisingly friendly for the average user. I always found an extra layer of abstraction in drupal that made simple things not straightforward and I always found my mental model expecting something slightly different than what drupal delivered. Admittedly, that was usually because I was trying to do something simple and dirty and drupal was the over-powered tool for the simple task (oh, but what an awesome tool at the end of the day). Drupal also generally struck me as something made by developers for developers, wordpress seemed to err on the side of users designers. I know that the next major rev of Drupal will be going through a major overhaul of the back-end, I'm looking forward to the improvements. I think both systems have incredibly rich user communities surrounding them and more often than not, we can find a plugin that's close to some sort of functionality that we need / want and we can modify from there. Even luckier, there's a rich developer community for wordpress around Denver and we know the original developer (Matt) so we have something of a fallback position if we got really serious and got stuck along the way. I think drupal's being used for the larger sites that I know of (IMA redesign, Balboa Park Collaborative, to name a few) and I think your choice depends on familiarity, scope of project, and programming skills. -bw. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Bruce Wyman, Director of Technology Denver Art Museum / 100 W 14th Ave. Pkwy, Denver, CO 80204 office: 720.913.0159 / fax: 720.913.0002 bwyman at denverartmuseum.org
[MCN-L] mcn-l Digest, Vol 53, Issue 13
Dear Dana, Our social media efforts are collaborative across the institution. There are no positions particularly devoted to this, we are using it as a tool for our usual work. In a broad conceptual sense, they are overseen by senior staff in the Getty Trust Communications/Web team, Museum Public Relations, and Museum Collection Information Access. The core staff that manages the efforts, creates guidelines, and offers guidance are in the same departments with submissions welcomed from all. We also have a social media working group composed of parties across the Trust; this includes staff who plan to use this type of outreach for future projects but aren't engaging with it yet. The Museum's Twitter, YouTube, and ArtBabble endeavors are managed by Collection Information Access and focus on the Museum's collection exhibitions. The Trust-wide YouTube, Facebook, and forthcoming blog are managed by Communications/Web team, while the Trust-wide Flickr account is handled by both Communications/Web team and Collection Information Access. The latter initiatives are broad-based in content. I hope this is helpful! Best, Maria Maria L. Gilbert Sr. Editor, Collection Information Access J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049 mgilbert at getty.edu www.getty.edu -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Mitroff Silvers, Dana Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 4:29 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] does your institution have a social media manager? I know this question has been asked in the past on MCN-l in various forms and permutations, but I'm asking again to get the latest, greatest answers from my peers, as things are changing so rapidly in the arena of social media and museums! Does your institution have a dedicated, full-time social media manager? If so, in which department does that position live? Or do you divide up social media responsibilities between more than one person or department? If so, what criteria do you use to make those distinctions? Many thanks for your input! Dana .. Dana Mitroff Silvers Head of Online Services San Francisco Museum of Modern Art 151 Third Street San Francisco, CA 94103-3159 dmitroff at sfmoma.org www.sfmoma.org
[MCN-L] British Museum - web developer
Dear all, We're looking for a Web Developer to assist the senior web developer in the maintenance, design and implementation of the website. The ideal candidate must have a background in ASP.NET, C#, object orientated design, XHTML and should be able to prove prior experience utilizing these technologies. Ref: 77014W Salary: ?30,143 per annum Contract: Permanent Department: Learning and Audiences Application deadline: 12 noon, 05 March 2010 Download the job description and an application pack from http://www.britishmuseum.org/the_museum/jobs.aspx Join a great team! Matthew mcock at britishmuseum.org Head of Web | Department of Learning and Audiences| The British Museum | britishmuseum.org http://www.britishmuseum.org | twitter.com/britishmuseum http://www.twitter.com/britishmuseum | t: 020 7323 8169 | m: 07971 433841 BOOK NOW FOR SPRING EXHIBITIONS Kingdom of Ife: sculptures from West Africa 4 March - 6 June 2010 Fra Angelico to Leonardo: Italian Renaissance drawings 22 April - 25 July 2010 BOOK NOW +44 (0)20 7323 8181 www.britishmuseum.org Follow the British Museum on Facebook and Twitter at www.facebook.com/britishmuseum www.twitter.com/britishmuseum
[MCN-L] Touch Screen Technologies
Hello all, We are trying to set up an interactive listening station that would give the visitor a chance to use a touch screen to choose between a few audio stories that are represented by visuals. The goal would be to have listening wands or headsets available as well. I would appreciate any advice on the simplest way to do this as well as recommendations regarding equipment. We do have some equipment on hand and would be interested to know if anyone has used a combination of a BrightSign Interactive Sign Controller with a Tyco LCD TouchMonitor to create something similar. Thanks, Narda Narda McKeen LaClair Technical Administrator Shelburne Museum Rebooting is a wonder drug - it fixes almost everything. ~Garrett Hazel, Help Desk Blues, 2002
[MCN-L] Mobile fundraising for museums - case studies?
Hello all, Are there any museums that are currently utilizing mobile fundraising (mobile applications with options to donate, fundraising options tied into audio and/or iPhone tours, text donations, etc..)? We are very interested in learning about the opportunities and challenges of mobile fundraising in the museum space but we?re having a hard time finding any case studies. Regards, Kate Regan -- ___ Kate Regan Business Development Manager Mediatrope Interactive Studio 207 Powell Street, 3rd Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 415.896.2000 x17 voice 415.896.2212 fax www.mediatrope.com kate at mediatrope.com
[MCN-L] VRA Core survey closes Monday, March 1st
In case you missed the announcement the first time around - Just a reminder that the VRA Core survey will close Monday March 1 2010 at 5pm PST. Below is the original announcement. Dear Colleagues, The Data Standards Committee of the Visual Resources Association (VRA) invites you to participate in a brief survey about the VRA Core data standard. This survey is meant to assess the current adoption of the VRA Core data standard in terms of the types and number of organizations using it, how it is being implemented, and challenges to its use. The survey is geared towards the following groups: a) organizations using VRA Core 4.0 b) organizations using VRA Core versions 1, 2, or 3 c) organizations who have considered but not adopted the Core. Only a subset of the questions apply to groups b c. The survey consists of 14 questions and requires approximately 5-10 minutes to complete. Please click on the following link to access our survey https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/vracore . You will also find a link to the survey posted on the VRA home page ( http://www.vraweb.org/). We request your response by Monday March 1, 2010 at 5pm PST. Please forward this announcement to other colleagues who may be interested in this survey. We thank you in advance for your willingness to complete the survey. Your feedback will help the future development of the VRA Core data standard. Data Standards Committee Co-chairs - Johanna Bauman (ARTstor), Trish Rose-Sandler (University of California, San Diego)
