Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-16 Thread Sina Bahram 
*nod*. It's a lot better, but not fully WCAG conformant . I'm obviously rather 
opinionated about what that means, but yes their new player is "way" better for 
sure.


President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
Phone: 919-345-3832
https://www.PAC.bz
Twitter: @SinaBahram
Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com

-Original Message-
From: mcn-l  On Behalf Of Tim Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 12:53 PM
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv 
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

Vimeo announced last month that they upgraded their player to WCAG AA
accessibility rating:
https://vimeo.com/blog/post/accessibility-updates-to-the-vimeo-player/

While I haven't verified this myself it looks like a good step.

-tim]


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:49 PM David Ertel  wrote:

> I also recommend Vimeo Pro for certain use cases, especially for static
> sites or promotional sites. I can confirm that with Vimeo Pro you can
> access signed URLs of the actual transcoded video files which you can use
> to embed the video via the  tag or a third party player.
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:43 AM Sina Bahram  wrote:
>
> > +1 on Vimeo pro over YouTube when it comes to business concerns, but
> there
> > definitely can be some accessibility issues with their native video
> player;
> > however, I believe that other video players such as VideoJS, AblePlayer,
> > etc. can be backed by a Vimeo video, though this would require
> verification.
> >
> >
> > President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
> > Phone: 919-345-3832
> > https://www.PAC.bz
> > Twitter: @SinaBahram
> > Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: mcn-l  On Behalf Of hoplist
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:04 AM
> > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv 
> > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 15, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Matt Morgan 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It's worth mentioning Vimeo Pro,
> > >
> > > https://vimeo.com/professionals <https://vimeo.com/professionals>
> > >
> > > which is super cheap compared to self-hosting or the enterprise video
> > providers but does everything most people want.
> >
> > I second Vimeo Pro and have used it for years. YouTube is a promotional
> > platform and its pretty much the only game in town if promotion is your
> > goal. But YouTube is a terrible host. It’s only advantage as a host is
> that
> > it is free.
> >
> > Vimeo Pro is inexpensive and offers sufficient tools to be a proper host
> > service. My one complaint is that its video management tools leave a
> great
> > deal to be desired.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >tod
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-16 Thread Tim Schwartz 
Vimeo announced last month that they upgraded their player to WCAG AA
accessibility rating:
https://vimeo.com/blog/post/accessibility-updates-to-the-vimeo-player/

While I haven't verified this myself it looks like a good step.

-tim]


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:49 PM David Ertel  wrote:

> I also recommend Vimeo Pro for certain use cases, especially for static
> sites or promotional sites. I can confirm that with Vimeo Pro you can
> access signed URLs of the actual transcoded video files which you can use
> to embed the video via the  tag or a third party player.
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:43 AM Sina Bahram  wrote:
>
> > +1 on Vimeo pro over YouTube when it comes to business concerns, but
> there
> > definitely can be some accessibility issues with their native video
> player;
> > however, I believe that other video players such as VideoJS, AblePlayer,
> > etc. can be backed by a Vimeo video, though this would require
> verification.
> >
> >
> > President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
> > Phone: 919-345-3832
> > https://www.PAC.bz
> > Twitter: @SinaBahram
> > Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: mcn-l  On Behalf Of hoplist
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:04 AM
> > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv 
> > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 15, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Matt Morgan 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It's worth mentioning Vimeo Pro,
> > >
> > > https://vimeo.com/professionals <https://vimeo.com/professionals>
> > >
> > > which is super cheap compared to self-hosting or the enterprise video
> > providers but does everything most people want.
> >
> > I second Vimeo Pro and have used it for years. YouTube is a promotional
> > platform and its pretty much the only game in town if promotion is your
> > goal. But YouTube is a terrible host. It’s only advantage as a host is
> that
> > it is free.
> >
> > Vimeo Pro is inexpensive and offers sufficient tools to be a proper host
> > service. My one complaint is that its video management tools leave a
> great
> > deal to be desired.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >tod
> >
> >
> > ___
> > You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum
> Computer
> > Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-16 Thread Osterman, Mark 
Just wanted to agree that many interesting resources arose from this discussion 
and I appreciate learning from the community. I think this issue of 
transcribing/captioning crosses many bridges related to accessibility and 
inclusion so learning more about what is available to the field and 
understanding expectations for standards is invaluable.

Mark

Dr. Mark Osterman
Digital Experience Manager
Lowe Art Museum
University of Miami
305-284-6377
__
LOWE
​

From: mcn-l  on behalf of Ellice Engdahl 

Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 3:48 PM
To: mcn-l@mcn.edu 
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

Just wanted to thank all those who provided their thoughts on this question.  
The accessibility comments are also exceedingly welcome, so no worries about 
thread hijacking. :-)

It's a lot to chew on, and while it's hard for me to picture a world where we 
totally move away from YouTube (like Google, Facebook, [insert name of giant 
tech platform here], it's where the most eyeballs are...), it's sounding like 
private hosting also has some advantages of its own.  I will share all your 
thoughts with my colleagues and we'll see where we go from here!

If others have additional/different/similar thoughts, please consider sending 
those my way.

Thanks!

Ellice

.
Ellice Engdahl, PMP
Manager, Digital Collections & Content
P: 313.982.6005
E: elli...@thehenryford.org<mailto:elli...@thehenryford.org>
.

From: Ellice Engdahl
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 9:28 AM
To: mcn-l@mcn.edu
Subject: Video hosting question

Hello, all,

While we have plenty of "modern" video out on YouTube, we currently host most 
our historic and collections-item videos (e.g. oral history video clips) on a 
private streaming platform.  We don't use much of the functionality provided by 
the private platform, so the question has come up whether YouTube would meet 
our needs as a player.

Some questions/potential concerns that have passed through my head:


  1.  Are there potentially different copyright implications to private hosting 
than to YouTube?  What if we made the YouTube videos unlisted so we were simply 
using it as a player?
  2.  Has anyone had (or is/was concerned about having) historic video 
challenged or taken down as in violation of YouTube's community standards?

Can anyone weigh in on these?  And are there other issues to contemplate that I 
am missing?  If the people at your institution who would make such decisions 
are not on the MCN listserv, I'd love it if you'd pass this along to them-I 
will take any and all input, on- or off-list.

If you've chosen to use a private streaming service in addition to or instead 
of YouTube, I'd be interested to know what additional value you think it brings.

Thanks!

.
Gain Perspective. Get Inspired. Make History.

Ellice Engdahl, PMP
Manager, Digital Collections & Content
P: 313.982.6005
E: elli...@thehenryford.org<mailto:elli...@thehenryford.org>

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.

The Henry Ford
20900 Oakwood Boulevard
Dearborn, MI 48124

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Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-15 Thread David Ertel 
I also recommend Vimeo Pro for certain use cases, especially for static
sites or promotional sites. I can confirm that with Vimeo Pro you can
access signed URLs of the actual transcoded video files which you can use
to embed the video via the  tag or a third party player.

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:43 AM Sina Bahram  wrote:

> +1 on Vimeo pro over YouTube when it comes to business concerns, but there
> definitely can be some accessibility issues with their native video player;
> however, I believe that other video players such as VideoJS, AblePlayer,
> etc. can be backed by a Vimeo video, though this would require verification.
>
>
> President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
> Phone: 919-345-3832
> https://www.PAC.bz
> Twitter: @SinaBahram
> Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mcn-l  On Behalf Of hoplist
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:04 AM
> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv 
> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question
>
>
> > On Oct 15, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Matt Morgan 
> wrote:
> >
> > It's worth mentioning Vimeo Pro,
> >
> > https://vimeo.com/professionals <https://vimeo.com/professionals>
> >
> > which is super cheap compared to self-hosting or the enterprise video
> providers but does everything most people want.
>
> I second Vimeo Pro and have used it for years. YouTube is a promotional
> platform and its pretty much the only game in town if promotion is your
> goal. But YouTube is a terrible host. It’s only advantage as a host is that
> it is free.
>
> Vimeo Pro is inexpensive and offers sufficient tools to be a proper host
> service. My one complaint is that its video management tools leave a great
> deal to be desired.
>
> Cheers,
>tod
>
>
> ___
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Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-15 Thread Sina Bahram 
+1 on Vimeo pro over YouTube when it comes to business concerns, but there 
definitely can be some accessibility issues with their native video player; 
however, I believe that other video players such as VideoJS, AblePlayer, etc. 
can be backed by a Vimeo video, though this would require verification.


President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
Phone: 919-345-3832
https://www.PAC.bz
Twitter: @SinaBahram
Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com

-Original Message-
From: mcn-l  On Behalf Of hoplist
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:04 AM
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv 
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question


> On Oct 15, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Matt Morgan  wrote:
> 
> It's worth mentioning Vimeo Pro, 
> 
> https://vimeo.com/professionals <https://vimeo.com/professionals>
> 
> which is super cheap compared to self-hosting or the enterprise video 
> providers but does everything most people want. 

I second Vimeo Pro and have used it for years. YouTube is a promotional 
platform and its pretty much the only game in town if promotion is your goal. 
But YouTube is a terrible host. It’s only advantage as a host is that it is 
free.

Vimeo Pro is inexpensive and offers sufficient tools to be a proper host 
service. My one complaint is that its video management tools leave a great deal 
to be desired.

Cheers,
   tod


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Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-15 Thread hoplist 

> On Oct 15, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Matt Morgan  wrote:
> 
> It's worth mentioning Vimeo Pro, 
> 
> https://vimeo.com/professionals 
> 
> which is super cheap compared to self-hosting or the enterprise video 
> providers but does everything most people want. 

I second Vimeo Pro and have used it for years. YouTube is a promotional 
platform and its pretty much the only game in town if promotion is your goal. 
But YouTube is a terrible host. It’s only advantage as a host is that it is 
free.

Vimeo Pro is inexpensive and offers sufficient tools to be a proper host 
service. My one complaint is that its video management tools leave a great deal 
to be desired.

Cheers,
   tod


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Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-15 Thread Matt Morgan 
It's worth mentioning Vimeo Pro, 

https://vimeo.com/professionals

which is super cheap compared to self-hosting or the enterprise video providers 
but does everything most people want. You still probably need to be on Youtube 
to reach the crowds there, but you may find Vimeo is better for embeds and 
sharing, plus the pro accounts give you control over all the little things 
(junk promoted at the end etc).

-- 
  Matt Morgan
  m...@concretecomputing.com

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019, at 8:25 AM, Bryan Kennedy wrote:
> Don't mean to take this thread in a new direction, but cielo24 is a
> fantastic machine captioning tool for video (and audio).
> 
> https://cielo24.com/
> 
> Like YT and other machine learning systems, it's far from perfect, but the
> cost is pennies per hour of video and allows you to browse videos by
> machine generated keywords. It even groups text sections into estimated
> topics. You can click on these words in the transcription and jump to the
> video section.
> 
> We use it as a first pass for most videos we use online and in exhibits
> before we even do the edit. It's helpful for the team doing a rough content
> edit on interviews. The rough transcriptions are a useful starting point
> for human cleanup of the captions and translation work as well.
> 
> bk
> 
> bryan kennedy
> director, museum technology & digital operations
> science museum of minnesota
> bkenn...@smm.org   651.221.2522
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 12:47 PM Matt Popke 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Ellice,
> >
> > We have a lot of video currently hosted on YouTube at the DAM. We're still
> > using it for some purpose, but we've recently been moving away from it for
> > some purposes, as well.
> >
> > Regarding copyright: I think the biggest risk of copyright issues on
> > youtube is that it has a very large audience and automated takedown systems
> > regularly scan the content there. It's just more likely that some automated
> > system will flag a video—any video—for takedown, often incorrectly. It
> > really depends on what you're putting up there.
> >
> > The reason we're moving away from youtube for much of our content has more
> > to do with YouTube's recommendation algorithm and the decreasing amount of
> > control we have over YouTube embeds in web pages. There is currently no way
> > to reliably turn off the grid of recommendations that appears in a youtube
> > video after it has finished playing. It used to be an API feature that we
> > could decide to enable or disable depending on our use case, but lately the
> > grid just appears whether we like it or not.
> >
> > We have no control over what shows up in those recommendations, and a
> > significant amount of the content on YouTube is problematic in one way or
> > another (extremism, racism, violence, etc.). We don't want to appear to the
> > unitiated user as though we are tacitly supporting or recommending whatever
> > YouTube's algorithm decides to show when our video is done playing.
> >
> > It's different for video that is viewed on YouTube's site. Users know who
> > is running the show there. But increasingly, when embedding video content
> > on web pages we are using Vimeo because we have more control over the
> > embeds.
> >
> > Also, as YouTube continues to pursue monetization strategies that
> > privilege ads and advertisers, we anticipate service changes that would be
> > at odds with our goals as an institution. It's easier to start moving to a
> > different service now when we have time to adjust then to find ourselves
> > moving to that service in a panicked rush after changes occur. The benefit
> > of paying for a video hosting service is you know what you are getting and
> > can be more assured that, aside from possible price increases, the service
> > isn't going to pull the rug out from under you without warning.
> >
> > Matt Popke
> > Developer
> > 720.913.0126
> > mpo...@denverartmuseum.org
> >
> >
> > On 10/14/19, 07:32, "mcn-l on behalf of Ellice Engdahl" <
> > mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu on behalf of elli...@thehenryford.org> wrote:
> >
> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
> > not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
> > know the content is safe.
> >
> >
> > Hello, all,
> >
> > While we have plenty of "modern" video out on YouTube, we currently
> > host most our historic and collections-item videos (e.g. oral history video
> > clips) on a private streaming platform.  We don't use much of the
> > functionality provided by the private platform, so the question has come up
> > whether YouTube would meet our needs as a player.
> >
> > Some questions/potential concerns that have passed through my head:
> >
> >
> >   1.  Are there potentially different copyright implications to
> > private hosting than to YouTube?  What if we made the YouTube videos
> > unlisted so we

Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-15 Thread Bryan Kennedy 
Don't mean to take this thread in a new direction, but cielo24 is a
fantastic machine captioning tool for video (and audio).

https://cielo24.com/

Like YT and other machine learning systems, it's far from perfect, but the
cost is pennies per hour of video and allows you to browse videos by
machine generated keywords. It even groups text sections into estimated
topics. You can click on these words in the transcription and jump to the
video section.

We use it as a first pass for most videos we use online and in exhibits
before we even do the edit. It's helpful for the team doing a rough content
edit on interviews. The rough transcriptions are a useful starting point
for human cleanup of the captions and translation work as well.

bk

bryan kennedy
director, museum technology & digital operations
science museum of minnesota
bkenn...@smm.org   651.221.2522



On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 12:47 PM Matt Popke 
wrote:

> Hi Ellice,
>
> We have a lot of video currently hosted on YouTube at the DAM. We're still
> using it for some purpose, but we've recently been moving away from it for
> some purposes, as well.
>
> Regarding copyright: I think the biggest risk of copyright issues on
> youtube is that it has a very large audience and automated takedown systems
> regularly scan the content there. It's just more likely that some automated
> system will flag a video—any video—for takedown, often incorrectly. It
> really depends on what you're putting up there.
>
> The reason we're moving away from youtube for much of our content has more
> to do with YouTube's recommendation algorithm and the decreasing amount of
> control we have over YouTube embeds in web pages. There is currently no way
> to reliably turn off the grid of recommendations that appears in a youtube
> video after it has finished playing. It used to be an API feature that we
> could decide to enable or disable depending on our use case, but lately the
> grid just appears whether we like it or not.
>
> We have no control over what shows up in those recommendations, and a
> significant amount of the content on YouTube is problematic in one way or
> another (extremism, racism, violence, etc.). We don't want to appear to the
> unitiated user as though we are tacitly supporting or recommending whatever
> YouTube's algorithm decides to show when our video is done playing.
>
> It's different for video that is viewed on YouTube's site. Users know who
> is running the show there. But increasingly, when embedding video content
> on web pages we are using Vimeo because we have more control over the
> embeds.
>
> Also, as YouTube continues to pursue monetization strategies that
> privilege ads and advertisers, we anticipate service changes that would be
> at odds with our goals as an institution. It's easier to start moving to a
> different service now when we have time to adjust then to find ourselves
> moving to that service in a panicked rush after changes occur. The benefit
> of paying for a video hosting service is you know what you are getting and
> can be more assured that, aside from possible price increases, the service
> isn't going to pull the rug out from under you without warning.
>
> Matt Popke
> Developer
> 720.913.0126
> mpo...@denverartmuseum.org
>
>
> On 10/14/19, 07:32, "mcn-l on behalf of Ellice Engdahl" <
> mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu on behalf of elli...@thehenryford.org> wrote:
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
> know the content is safe.
>
>
> Hello, all,
>
> While we have plenty of "modern" video out on YouTube, we currently
> host most our historic and collections-item videos (e.g. oral history video
> clips) on a private streaming platform.  We don't use much of the
> functionality provided by the private platform, so the question has come up
> whether YouTube would meet our needs as a player.
>
> Some questions/potential concerns that have passed through my head:
>
>
>   1.  Are there potentially different copyright implications to
> private hosting than to YouTube?  What if we made the YouTube videos
> unlisted so we were simply using it as a player?
>   2.  Has anyone had (or is/was concerned about having) historic video
> challenged or taken down as in violation of YouTube's community standards?
>
> Can anyone weigh in on these?  And are there other issues to
> contemplate that I am missing?  If the people at your institution who would
> make such decisions are not on the MCN listserv, I'd love it if you'd pass
> this along to them-I will take any and all input, on- or off-list.
>
> If you've chosen to use a private streaming service in addition to or
> instead of YouTube, I'd be interested to know what additional value you
> think it brings.
>
> Thanks!
>
>

Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-14 Thread M. Elings 
Just wanted to chime in here on the question of captioning. We use YT
auto-captioning and then have humans correct it. YT auto-captioning alone
is not acceptable at UC Berkeley, so we take the extra step. So far we have
found no other more cost-effective method to get good captioning without
breaking the bank. If anyone has a better method, please share.

--
Mary W. Elings
Assistant Director and Head of Technical Services
The Bancroft Library
University of California



On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 2:21 PM Susan Edwards  wrote:

> Hi Sina - You are correct! And I did not mean to imply that the transcripts
> provided by YT are perfect. They are not at all.
> However, UCLA's office of ADA compliance has told us that they are ok with
> us providing captions in this way. There is definitely much work to be done
> on this front - I'd will reach out to you separately about better ways!
>
> Susan
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 2:07 PM Sina Bahram  wrote:
>
> > Because Susan mentioned captions below, I just wanted to make one thing
> > really clear. I don't mean to disagree, Susan, and it's not the main
> topic
> > of this thread, so apologies to the OP ahead of time, but it's critical
> to
> > understand that automatically generated captions are not sufficient for
> > accessibility/inclusive design reasons. I don't think you were implying
> > that they were since many places take the auto-generated captions, then
> > edit them to be compliant/useful, but this question comes up a ton in our
> > work. Happy to discuss under a separate thread/cover, but trying to not
> > high-jack the thread here.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Take care,
> > Sina
> >
> > President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
> > Phone: 919-345-3832
> > https://www.PAC.bz
> > Twitter: @SinaBahram
> > Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: mcn-l  On Behalf Of Susan Edwards
> > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 2:14 PM
> > To: Museum Computer Network Listserv 
> > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question
> >
> > Hi Ellice -
> > We have lots of videos on YouTube and are currently adding on the order
> of
> > 100 each year. We think of YT as another social media outlet, and it's an
> > important distribution channel for us.
> > Agree with Matt about the lack of control over the content that's
> delivered
> > at the end of the videos, but that has a lot to do with the user and
> their
> > own watching habits. Just like any other social media platform, this
> needs
> > to be managed, and you need to keep up with the changes - it requires
> care
> > and feeding. I think it's important that you have a social media person
> or
> > marketing/communications team that can manage this platform - that's got
> to
> > be part of the investment.
> >
> >  YT isn't the only place our videos are hosted - this is not our archive.
> > We also post a lot to Vimeo (mostly produced promotional videos), and all
> > of our public programs documentation videos originate on the Livestream
> > platform. Everything is archived on-site as well. We are about to embark
> on
> > a Mellon-funded project to create an online archive for our public
> programs
> > documentation videos, and we may move choose a different host for this,
> but
> > I don't think we will stop also posting to YT.
> >
> > Another important thing for us is the auto-captioning YT provides. As
> part
> > of UCLA, we are a government entity and have to comply with ADA
> > requirements for accessibility. Without the captioning provided by YT for
> > free, we would have to take on this expense and
> >
> > And yes, we have had videos blocked and taken down for copyright, AND our
> > account was blocked from live broadcasting on YT for 3 months. It's all
> > robots-managed and there is virtually nothing you can do about it - it's
> > super frustrating. I have tried to appeal many ways, many times, to no
> > avail!
> >
> > Hope this helps - happy to discuss more!
> > Susan
> >
> > Susan Edwards
> > Associate Director, Digital Content
> > Hammer Museum
> > 10899 Wilshire Bl
> > Los Angeles, CA 90024
> > sedwa...@hammer.ucla.edu
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 10:50 AM Matt Popke 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ellice,
> > >
> > > We have a lot of video currently hosted on YouTube at the DAM. We're
> > still
> > > using it for some purpose, but we've recently been moving away from it
> > for
> > > some purposes, as well.
> > >
>

Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-14 Thread Susan Edwards 
Hi Sina - You are correct! And I did not mean to imply that the transcripts
provided by YT are perfect. They are not at all.
However, UCLA's office of ADA compliance has told us that they are ok with
us providing captions in this way. There is definitely much work to be done
on this front - I'd will reach out to you separately about better ways!

Susan

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 2:07 PM Sina Bahram  wrote:

> Because Susan mentioned captions below, I just wanted to make one thing
> really clear. I don't mean to disagree, Susan, and it's not the main topic
> of this thread, so apologies to the OP ahead of time, but it's critical to
> understand that automatically generated captions are not sufficient for
> accessibility/inclusive design reasons. I don't think you were implying
> that they were since many places take the auto-generated captions, then
> edit them to be compliant/useful, but this question comes up a ton in our
> work. Happy to discuss under a separate thread/cover, but trying to not
> high-jack the thread here.
>
> Thanks
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
> President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
> Phone: 919-345-3832
> https://www.PAC.bz
> Twitter: @SinaBahram
> Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mcn-l  On Behalf Of Susan Edwards
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 2:14 PM
> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv 
> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question
>
> Hi Ellice -
> We have lots of videos on YouTube and are currently adding on the order of
> 100 each year. We think of YT as another social media outlet, and it's an
> important distribution channel for us.
> Agree with Matt about the lack of control over the content that's delivered
> at the end of the videos, but that has a lot to do with the user and their
> own watching habits. Just like any other social media platform, this needs
> to be managed, and you need to keep up with the changes - it requires care
> and feeding. I think it's important that you have a social media person or
> marketing/communications team that can manage this platform - that's got to
> be part of the investment.
>
>  YT isn't the only place our videos are hosted - this is not our archive.
> We also post a lot to Vimeo (mostly produced promotional videos), and all
> of our public programs documentation videos originate on the Livestream
> platform. Everything is archived on-site as well. We are about to embark on
> a Mellon-funded project to create an online archive for our public programs
> documentation videos, and we may move choose a different host for this, but
> I don't think we will stop also posting to YT.
>
> Another important thing for us is the auto-captioning YT provides. As part
> of UCLA, we are a government entity and have to comply with ADA
> requirements for accessibility. Without the captioning provided by YT for
> free, we would have to take on this expense and
>
> And yes, we have had videos blocked and taken down for copyright, AND our
> account was blocked from live broadcasting on YT for 3 months. It's all
> robots-managed and there is virtually nothing you can do about it - it's
> super frustrating. I have tried to appeal many ways, many times, to no
> avail!
>
> Hope this helps - happy to discuss more!
> Susan
>
> Susan Edwards
> Associate Director, Digital Content
> Hammer Museum
> 10899 Wilshire Bl
> Los Angeles, CA 90024
> sedwa...@hammer.ucla.edu
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 10:50 AM Matt Popke 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ellice,
> >
> > We have a lot of video currently hosted on YouTube at the DAM. We're
> still
> > using it for some purpose, but we've recently been moving away from it
> for
> > some purposes, as well.
> >
> > Regarding copyright: I think the biggest risk of copyright issues on
> > youtube is that it has a very large audience and automated takedown
> systems
> > regularly scan the content there. It's just more likely that some
> automated
> > system will flag a video—any video—for takedown, often incorrectly. It
> > really depends on what you're putting up there.
> >
> > The reason we're moving away from youtube for much of our content has
> more
> > to do with YouTube's recommendation algorithm and the decreasing amount
> of
> > control we have over YouTube embeds in web pages. There is currently no
> way
> > to reliably turn off the grid of recommendations that appears in a
> youtube
> > video after it has finished playing. It used to be an API feature that we
> > could decide to enable or disable depending on our use case, but lately
> the
> > grid just appears whether we like it or not.
> >
> > We have no co

Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-14 Thread Sina Bahram 
Because Susan mentioned captions below, I just wanted to make one thing really 
clear. I don't mean to disagree, Susan, and it's not the main topic of this 
thread, so apologies to the OP ahead of time, but it's critical to understand 
that automatically generated captions are not sufficient for 
accessibility/inclusive design reasons. I don't think you were implying that 
they were since many places take the auto-generated captions, then edit them to 
be compliant/useful, but this question comes up a ton in our work. Happy to 
discuss under a separate thread/cover, but trying to not high-jack the thread 
here.

Thanks

Take care,
Sina

President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
Phone: 919-345-3832
https://www.PAC.bz
Twitter: @SinaBahram
Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com

-Original Message-
From: mcn-l  On Behalf Of Susan Edwards
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 2:14 PM
To: Museum Computer Network Listserv 
Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

Hi Ellice -
We have lots of videos on YouTube and are currently adding on the order of
100 each year. We think of YT as another social media outlet, and it's an
important distribution channel for us.
Agree with Matt about the lack of control over the content that's delivered
at the end of the videos, but that has a lot to do with the user and their
own watching habits. Just like any other social media platform, this needs
to be managed, and you need to keep up with the changes - it requires care
and feeding. I think it's important that you have a social media person or
marketing/communications team that can manage this platform - that's got to
be part of the investment.

 YT isn't the only place our videos are hosted - this is not our archive.
We also post a lot to Vimeo (mostly produced promotional videos), and all
of our public programs documentation videos originate on the Livestream
platform. Everything is archived on-site as well. We are about to embark on
a Mellon-funded project to create an online archive for our public programs
documentation videos, and we may move choose a different host for this, but
I don't think we will stop also posting to YT.

Another important thing for us is the auto-captioning YT provides. As part
of UCLA, we are a government entity and have to comply with ADA
requirements for accessibility. Without the captioning provided by YT for
free, we would have to take on this expense and

And yes, we have had videos blocked and taken down for copyright, AND our
account was blocked from live broadcasting on YT for 3 months. It's all
robots-managed and there is virtually nothing you can do about it - it's
super frustrating. I have tried to appeal many ways, many times, to no
avail!

Hope this helps - happy to discuss more!
Susan

Susan Edwards
Associate Director, Digital Content
Hammer Museum
10899 Wilshire Bl
Los Angeles, CA 90024
sedwa...@hammer.ucla.edu


On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 10:50 AM Matt Popke 
wrote:

> Hi Ellice,
>
> We have a lot of video currently hosted on YouTube at the DAM. We're still
> using it for some purpose, but we've recently been moving away from it for
> some purposes, as well.
>
> Regarding copyright: I think the biggest risk of copyright issues on
> youtube is that it has a very large audience and automated takedown systems
> regularly scan the content there. It's just more likely that some automated
> system will flag a video—any video—for takedown, often incorrectly. It
> really depends on what you're putting up there.
>
> The reason we're moving away from youtube for much of our content has more
> to do with YouTube's recommendation algorithm and the decreasing amount of
> control we have over YouTube embeds in web pages. There is currently no way
> to reliably turn off the grid of recommendations that appears in a youtube
> video after it has finished playing. It used to be an API feature that we
> could decide to enable or disable depending on our use case, but lately the
> grid just appears whether we like it or not.
>
> We have no control over what shows up in those recommendations, and a
> significant amount of the content on YouTube is problematic in one way or
> another (extremism, racism, violence, etc.). We don't want to appear to the
> unitiated user as though we are tacitly supporting or recommending whatever
> YouTube's algorithm decides to show when our video is done playing.
>
> It's different for video that is viewed on YouTube's site. Users know who
> is running the show there. But increasingly, when embedding video content
> on web pages we are using Vimeo because we have more control over the
> embeds.
>
> Also, as YouTube continues to pursue monetization strategies that
> privilege ads and advertisers, we anticipate service changes that would be
> at odds with our goals as an institution. It's easier to start moving to a
> different service now when we have time to a

Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-14 Thread Susan Edwards 
Hi Ellice -
We have lots of videos on YouTube and are currently adding on the order of
100 each year. We think of YT as another social media outlet, and it's an
important distribution channel for us.
Agree with Matt about the lack of control over the content that's delivered
at the end of the videos, but that has a lot to do with the user and their
own watching habits. Just like any other social media platform, this needs
to be managed, and you need to keep up with the changes - it requires care
and feeding. I think it's important that you have a social media person or
marketing/communications team that can manage this platform - that's got to
be part of the investment.

 YT isn't the only place our videos are hosted - this is not our archive.
We also post a lot to Vimeo (mostly produced promotional videos), and all
of our public programs documentation videos originate on the Livestream
platform. Everything is archived on-site as well. We are about to embark on
a Mellon-funded project to create an online archive for our public programs
documentation videos, and we may move choose a different host for this, but
I don't think we will stop also posting to YT.

Another important thing for us is the auto-captioning YT provides. As part
of UCLA, we are a government entity and have to comply with ADA
requirements for accessibility. Without the captioning provided by YT for
free, we would have to take on this expense and

And yes, we have had videos blocked and taken down for copyright, AND our
account was blocked from live broadcasting on YT for 3 months. It's all
robots-managed and there is virtually nothing you can do about it - it's
super frustrating. I have tried to appeal many ways, many times, to no
avail!

Hope this helps - happy to discuss more!
Susan

Susan Edwards
Associate Director, Digital Content
Hammer Museum
10899 Wilshire Bl
Los Angeles, CA 90024
sedwa...@hammer.ucla.edu


On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 10:50 AM Matt Popke 
wrote:

> Hi Ellice,
>
> We have a lot of video currently hosted on YouTube at the DAM. We're still
> using it for some purpose, but we've recently been moving away from it for
> some purposes, as well.
>
> Regarding copyright: I think the biggest risk of copyright issues on
> youtube is that it has a very large audience and automated takedown systems
> regularly scan the content there. It's just more likely that some automated
> system will flag a video—any video—for takedown, often incorrectly. It
> really depends on what you're putting up there.
>
> The reason we're moving away from youtube for much of our content has more
> to do with YouTube's recommendation algorithm and the decreasing amount of
> control we have over YouTube embeds in web pages. There is currently no way
> to reliably turn off the grid of recommendations that appears in a youtube
> video after it has finished playing. It used to be an API feature that we
> could decide to enable or disable depending on our use case, but lately the
> grid just appears whether we like it or not.
>
> We have no control over what shows up in those recommendations, and a
> significant amount of the content on YouTube is problematic in one way or
> another (extremism, racism, violence, etc.). We don't want to appear to the
> unitiated user as though we are tacitly supporting or recommending whatever
> YouTube's algorithm decides to show when our video is done playing.
>
> It's different for video that is viewed on YouTube's site. Users know who
> is running the show there. But increasingly, when embedding video content
> on web pages we are using Vimeo because we have more control over the
> embeds.
>
> Also, as YouTube continues to pursue monetization strategies that
> privilege ads and advertisers, we anticipate service changes that would be
> at odds with our goals as an institution. It's easier to start moving to a
> different service now when we have time to adjust then to find ourselves
> moving to that service in a panicked rush after changes occur. The benefit
> of paying for a video hosting service is you know what you are getting and
> can be more assured that, aside from possible price increases, the service
> isn't going to pull the rug out from under you without warning.
>
> Matt Popke
> Developer
> 720.913.0126
> mpo...@denverartmuseum.org
>
>
> On 10/14/19, 07:32, "mcn-l on behalf of Ellice Engdahl" <
> mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu on behalf of elli...@thehenryford.org> wrote:
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
> know the content is safe.
>
>
> Hello, all,
>
> While we have plenty of "modern" video out on YouTube, we currently
> host most our historic and collections-item videos (e.g. oral history video
> clips) on a private streaming platform.  We don't use much of the
> functionality provided by the private platform, so the question has come up
> whether YouTube would meet our needs as a player.
>
>

Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-14 Thread Matt Popke 
Hi Ellice,

We have a lot of video currently hosted on YouTube at the DAM. We're still 
using it for some purpose, but we've recently been moving away from it for some 
purposes, as well.

Regarding copyright: I think the biggest risk of copyright issues on youtube is 
that it has a very large audience and automated takedown systems regularly scan 
the content there. It's just more likely that some automated system will flag a 
video—any video—for takedown, often incorrectly. It really depends on what 
you're putting up there.

The reason we're moving away from youtube for much of our content has more to 
do with YouTube's recommendation algorithm and the decreasing amount of control 
we have over YouTube embeds in web pages. There is currently no way to reliably 
turn off the grid of recommendations that appears in a youtube video after it 
has finished playing. It used to be an API feature that we could decide to 
enable or disable depending on our use case, but lately the grid just appears 
whether we like it or not.

We have no control over what shows up in those recommendations, and a 
significant amount of the content on YouTube is problematic in one way or 
another (extremism, racism, violence, etc.). We don't want to appear to the 
unitiated user as though we are tacitly supporting or recommending whatever 
YouTube's algorithm decides to show when our video is done playing. 

It's different for video that is viewed on YouTube's site. Users know who is 
running the show there. But increasingly, when embedding video content on web 
pages we are using Vimeo because we have more control over the embeds.

Also, as YouTube continues to pursue monetization strategies that privilege ads 
and advertisers, we anticipate service changes that would be at odds with our 
goals as an institution. It's easier to start moving to a different service now 
when we have time to adjust then to find ourselves moving to that service in a 
panicked rush after changes occur. The benefit of paying for a video hosting 
service is you know what you are getting and can be more assured that, aside 
from possible price increases, the service isn't going to pull the rug out from 
under you without warning.

Matt Popke
Developer
720.913.0126
mpo...@denverartmuseum.org
 

On 10/14/19, 07:32, "mcn-l on behalf of Ellice Engdahl"  wrote:

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not 
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the 
content is safe.


Hello, all,

While we have plenty of "modern" video out on YouTube, we currently host 
most our historic and collections-item videos (e.g. oral history video clips) 
on a private streaming platform.  We don't use much of the functionality 
provided by the private platform, so the question has come up whether YouTube 
would meet our needs as a player.

Some questions/potential concerns that have passed through my head:


  1.  Are there potentially different copyright implications to private 
hosting than to YouTube?  What if we made the YouTube videos unlisted so we 
were simply using it as a player?
  2.  Has anyone had (or is/was concerned about having) historic video 
challenged or taken down as in violation of YouTube's community standards?

Can anyone weigh in on these?  And are there other issues to contemplate 
that I am missing?  If the people at your institution who would make such 
decisions are not on the MCN listserv, I'd love it if you'd pass this along to 
them-I will take any and all input, on- or off-list.

If you've chosen to use a private streaming service in addition to or 
instead of YouTube, I'd be interested to know what additional value you think 
it brings.

Thanks!

.
Gain Perspective. Get Inspired. Make History.

Ellice Engdahl, PMP
Manager, Digital Collections & Content
P: 313.982.6005
E: elli...@thehenryford.org


https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.thehenryford.orgdata=02%7C01%7Cmpopke%40denverartmuseum.org%7Cc04c9436d5b74f5cfbfe08d750aafee8%7Cce07caf59ef14a37b466a44073737e5f%7C0%7C0%7C637066567673071477sdata=49fqN4WWf4kCFNTxUrrtQlk6ZUJyjsM7Z8DfpbPjI1k%3Dreserved=0
.

The Henry Ford
20900 Oakwood Boulevard
Dearborn, MI 48124

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You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer 
Network

Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-14 Thread Maarten Brinkerink 
Dear Ellice and all,

Thanks for raising this important discussion, which to me addresses the next 
wave of online awareness for museums (ethical concerns, related to leveraging 
dominant social media platforms).

In the Netherlands there have been numerous accounts related to your second 
point. Established national and regional archives have seen historical footage 
- especially historical documentation of the Second World War - removed from 
YouTube, or even entire channels blocked, without a clear response from YouTube 
to disputes to these actions.

Best,

Maarten 

> Op 14 okt. 2019, om 15:27 heeft Ellice Engdahl  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> Hello, all,
> 
> While we have plenty of "modern" video out on YouTube, we currently host most 
> our historic and collections-item videos (e.g. oral history video clips) on a 
> private streaming platform.  We don't use much of the functionality provided 
> by the private platform, so the question has come up whether YouTube would 
> meet our needs as a player.
> 
> Some questions/potential concerns that have passed through my head:
> 
> 
>  1.  Are there potentially different copyright implications to private 
> hosting than to YouTube?  What if we made the YouTube videos unlisted so we 
> were simply using it as a player?
>  2.  Has anyone had (or is/was concerned about having) historic video 
> challenged or taken down as in violation of YouTube's community standards?
> 
> Can anyone weigh in on these?  And are there other issues to contemplate that 
> I am missing?  If the people at your institution who would make such 
> decisions are not on the MCN listserv, I'd love it if you'd pass this along 
> to them-I will take any and all input, on- or off-list.
> 
> If you've chosen to use a private streaming service in addition to or instead 
> of YouTube, I'd be interested to know what additional value you think it 
> brings.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> .
> Gain Perspective. Get Inspired. Make History.
> 
> Ellice Engdahl, PMP
> Manager, Digital Collections & Content
> P: 313.982.6005
> E: elli...@thehenryford.org
> 
> www.thehenryford.org
> .
> 
> The Henry Ford
> 20900 Oakwood Boulevard
> Dearborn, MI 48124
> 
> ___
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Re: [MCN-L] Video hosting question

2019-10-14 Thread Captain Laika 
I've certainly used unlisted videos before (i.e. only accessible via 
direct link) - no technological barriers there.




On 14/10/2019 14:27, Ellice Engdahl wrote:

Hello, all,

While we have plenty of "modern" video out on YouTube, we currently host most 
our historic and collections-item videos (e.g. oral history video clips) on a private 
streaming platform.  We don't use much of the functionality provided by the private 
platform, so the question has come up whether YouTube would meet our needs as a player.

Some questions/potential concerns that have passed through my head:


   1.  Are there potentially different copyright implications to private 
hosting than to YouTube?  What if we made the YouTube videos unlisted so we 
were simply using it as a player?
   2.  Has anyone had (or is/was concerned about having) historic video 
challenged or taken down as in violation of YouTube's community standards?

Can anyone weigh in on these?  And are there other issues to contemplate that I 
am missing?  If the people at your institution who would make such decisions 
are not on the MCN listserv, I'd love it if you'd pass this along to them-I 
will take any and all input, on- or off-list.

If you've chosen to use a private streaming service in addition to or instead 
of YouTube, I'd be interested to know what additional value you think it brings.

Thanks!

.
Gain Perspective. Get Inspired. Make History.

Ellice Engdahl, PMP
Manager, Digital Collections & Content
P: 313.982.6005
E: elli...@thehenryford.org

www.thehenryford.org
.

The Henry Ford
20900 Oakwood Boulevard
Dearborn, MI 48124

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