/webercarbs
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- Original Message -
From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
How about manufacturing in general? Building new cars has to have a huge
impact
No, it is 2-3 per week.
--R
LarryT wrote:
You wrote:China's growth one of the
elements driving the current oil crises?
While listening to a debate on the energy situation and the US's lack of new
power plant construction (zero new plants in the last 30 years) - they
reported that China
Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
No, it is 2-3 per week.
--R
LarryT wrote:
You wrote:China's growth one of the
elements driving the current oil crises?
While listening
Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Damn! Worse than I thought!
Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
While listening to a debate on the energy situation and the US's
lack of new power plant construction (zero new plants in the last 30
years) - they reported that China is starting up a new coal fired
power plant each *week* !! We all know how environmentally
Allan pointed out:
And what do you think the chances are that they have all the
sophisticated scrubbers etc. on the stacks of these power plants they
are building?
'Zactly. I read an article the other day that these plants are spewing out
the goo at such an alarming rate that the people nearby
Robert Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
'Zactly. I read an article the other day that these plants are
spewing out the goo at such an alarming rate that the people nearby
are already dying from stuff that usually takes decades to kill
people who live near power plants in the rest of the
,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:01 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Robert Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
...
__
From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:00:38 -0500
You are pretty much correct, but the problem is the rest of the
developing world wants to live exactly as we do here in the states (or
other developed countries) and they will burn everything in sight to get
there --coal, oil, trees, whatever.. Telling them to stop or grow
greenly is a good
PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
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- Original Message -
From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
LarryT [EMAIL
://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
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- Original Message -
From: Robert Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Up here we do it with flowing water.
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LarryT
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:19 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Bob wrote:quietly and cleanly making electricity
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Bob wrote:quietly and cleanly making electricity
Hi Bob,
Thanks for looking out for us! BTW, how are you making electr?
Solar? Wind? rubbing 2 sticks together? ;-)
Wind, as far as a reliability standpoint, sucks to put
: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
You are pretty much correct, but the problem is the rest of the
developing world wants to live exactly as we do here in the states (or
other developed countries) and they will burn everything in sight to get
there --coal, oil, trees, whatever.. Telling them
: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
If we started planning to build a nuclear power plant today, construction
would be complete in 16 years.
And as far as I know, none are in the planning stages because no-one wants
on in his or her backyard!
TVA
LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
IMO, nuclear is the only practical way to provide power to vast numbers of
the population. Even France is fully committed to nukes.
So is China, even though they are also building the coal-fired plants.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/china.html
Ah another opportunity to float an opinion. You're right, Rich, it is
informative and interesting to hear all of us sound off (and I've been
doing it a lot lately I know).
It is demoralizing to hear about what China and India and whoever else
are doing - seems it would more than cancel out
:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
On Nov 9, 2007 1:01 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Up here we do it with flowing water.
Randy
Aaaa cheap government hydro. Love it.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
, November 09, 2007 2:15 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Ah another opportunity to float an opinion. You're right, Rich, it is
informative and interesting to hear all of us sound off (and I've been
doing it a lot lately I know).
It is demoralizing to hear about what
Randy mentioned:
If we all drove non-turbo MB diesels from the 60's and 70's there would be
no need to dash from light to light.
It just doesn't look like I'm dashing. Believe me...more times than not I
have my foot in it. Trouble is, it looks like I'm putting along because all
the Lexi and
Slinging neutrons around.
Bob R.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of LarryT
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:19 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Bob wrote:quietly and cleanly making electricity
Hi Bob
backyard?
Tom
www.kegkits.com
Original Message
From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11/09/07 02:15 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ah another opportunity to float an opinion. You're right
Tom asked:
anyone want to re-consider having a nuclear power plant built in his or her
backyard?
I will! Then my commute will be shorter...
Bob R.
If you live in the west and you flip on a light, think of me.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new parts see
I'm not sure this is quite true, I was reading somewhere they are
forced to buy equipment from elsewhere and that
equipment meets current nasty first world environmental standards
(such as they are), thus emissions are much
lower than oh say any usa coal fired plant given perhaps they are all
] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Then there is the whole battery nastiness issue -- manufacturing and
disposal -- which is not negligible, but it is removed from view so you
can feel better about driving the Prius. And how one feels about
the issue is the most important aspect!
--R
LarryT wrote
Then there is the whole battery nastiness issue -- manufacturing and
disposal -- which is not negligible, but it is removed from view so you
can feel better about driving the Prius. And how one feels about
the issue is the most important aspect!
--R
LarryT wrote:
This was in a industry
I would imagine that a diesel hybrid would be the smartest way to go, at
least using currently available technology. I know that there are some out
there, at least in the prototype phase, but I can't see any real obstacle
for them. Thinking in terms of the last Golf TDI which got what 45mpg? If
-
From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
How about manufacturing in general? Building new cars has to have a huge
impact on the ecology and on our oil
http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
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- Original Message -
From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
I think the issue with diesel hybrids is that the diesel
I think the issue with diesel hybrids is that the diesel engine is even
more expensive than a gasser, which drives up the cost of the package
even higher, and the economics work even worse. The Prius is not
economically cost-effective compared to a straight gasser, even with the
deep
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Along with the electrical consumption req'd to make steel is the power
needed to make Aluminum - used in ever increasing amounts to save weight
I guess that's the thinking behind hybrids? But isn't there a penalty
to
hybrids which must drag all that electrical stuff around when it isn;t
needed or being used? (like long trips)
The thinking behind hybrids is that the charge/discharge cycle
of the electric parts is more efficient than
the alum co built the smelter and the power co built a
new *Electrical Generating Plant * just for the plant we were building.
Both steel and aluminum require a lot of energy to refine. It's
just that steel can make use of fuel heat directly whereas aluminum
requires it to be converted to
] Diesels Vs Hybrids
On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:02 AM, LarryT wrote:
Along with the electrical consumption req'd to make steel is the power
needed to make Aluminum - used in ever increasing amounts to save
weight and
increase mpg's. Alum needs much more electricity than steel.
Up here
On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:02 AM, LarryT wrote:
Along with the electrical consumption req'd to make steel is the power
needed to make Aluminum - used in ever increasing amounts to save
weight and
increase mpg's. Alum needs much more electricity than steel.
Up here in the Pacific NW during the
PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
I think the issue with diesel hybrids is that the diesel engine is even
more expensive than a gasser, which drives up the cost of the package
even
Allan Streib wrote:
Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Logic won the bag issue but I'm afrait it won't with hybrid
vehicles.
Not everywhere. The local organic grocery does NOT use plastic
bags. They encourage bringing your own shopping bags, otherwise you
get paper bags (unbleached
Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I suppose the hills around here make it a good choice. But I have
always questioned the manufacturing/disposal processes of the
batteries, etc. And this thread has added to my mind another issue
that I have not thought a lot about: the environmental
Yeah, there's a grocery co-op I sometimes go to in Seattle that makes
you feel guilty for requesting a grocery bag. I appreciate the effort
to help the enviro. on the grocery bag issue, but they really ought to
handle it better with the customers than assuming you don't need a
bag, then copping a
]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
The bottom line is that the paper bag will likely compost itself to
nothing but the plastic bag will be with us
always. Even better is to carry your own re-usable
Hargrave
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:04 PM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
They are and always have been and always will be closed minded. Anyone
on a mission is.
I remember years ago during the first oil crises when the same mindset
was moving the entire
Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Logic won the bag issue but I'm afrait it won't with hybrid
vehicles.
Not everywhere. The local organic grocery does NOT use plastic
bags. They encourage bringing your own shopping bags, otherwise you
get paper bags (unbleached recycled paper of course)
LarryT wrote:
I've got it!! Put a windmill on the roof!! Drive and charge! ;-D
When I was 12, I designed a perpetual motion go kart.
Motive power supplied by a car battery, starter motor,
and alternator. The idea was to recharge with the alternator
on the fly. Never built it (fortunately)
LarryT wrote:
That's because the media has it's own agenda - which is Hybrid cars
regardless of the logic.
What grinds my shorts is the fact that gov't picks a technology,
like hybrids, subsidizes it stupidly (would you rather have somebody
driving to work in a Prius or a passenger truck?
Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
They are and always have been and always will be closed minded. Anyone
on a mission is.
I remember years ago during the first oil
! youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.
- Original Message -
From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
andrew strasfogel wrote:
Scr*w
Yes! Especially during Daylight Savings Time -- you can save more
of it!
--R
andrew strasfogel wrote:
Scr*w plug in hybrids. Just mount a PV arrray on the roof of the car
to trickle charge the batteries in broad daylight. Doesn't that make
more sense?
of anodes. It's 100 percent electricity .
Thanks, Tom
256-656-1924
-Original Message-
From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: 11/8/07 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
the alum co built the smelter and the power co
And to carry your logic a little further, why not just drive down hill
all the time?
Tom
www.kegkits.com
Original Message
From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11/08/07 04:14 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
.
- Original Message -
From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Yes! Especially during Daylight Savings Time -- you can save more
of it!
--R
andrew
Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11/08/07 03:54 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I like to analyze communities I visit or live in by the most commonly
seen cars there. Here on Bainbridge, I think that the Prius
to the lower 48 States.
Tom
www.kegkits.com
Original Message
From: dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11/08/07 02:23 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
According to How It's Made produced
AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
the alum co built the smelter and the power co built a
new *Electrical Generating Plant * just for the plant we were
building.
Both steel and aluminum require a lot of energy to refine. It's
just that steel can make use of fuel heat directly whereas
with
scrap and then lower a set of anodes. It's 100 percent electricity .
Thanks, Tom
256-656-1924
-Original Message-
From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: 11/8/07 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
the alum co built
@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Scr*w plug in hybrids. Just mount a PV arrray on the roof of the car
to trickle charge the batteries in broad daylight. Doesn't that make
more sense?
On Nov 8, 2007 3:39 PM, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
Looked at a site related to electric boats last evening. They claim 8 hours on
a full charge and the boat has a
diesel generator on board that will essentially permit full time operation if
need be. The idea appeals as it would
be nice to have a quiet boat. Unfortunately, the batteries are heavy
List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Sure, charge 2 days - drive one mile, charge 2 days - drive one mile,
charge 2 days - drive one mile.
Solar cells are terribly inefficiant.
Tom
www.kegkits.com
Original Message
From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11/08/07 03:02
] Diesels Vs Hybrids
the alum co built the smelter and the power co built a
new *Electrical Generating Plant * just for the plant we were
building.
Both steel and aluminum require a lot of energy to refine. It's
just that steel can make use of fuel heat directly whereas aluminum
I like to analyze communities I visit or live in by the most commonly
seen cars there. Here on Bainbridge, I think that the Prius even beats
the Subaru in sheer numbers. It's not uncommon to have three or more
of them in sight at once when driving down a two lane road.
I suppose the hills around
/webercarbs
.
- Original Message -
From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
LarryT wrote:
That's because the media has it's own agenda - which is Hybrid cars
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