Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
If you replace everything everyone tells you to, you will end up with a completely new engine. There are length spec's for the bolts in WIS. If they exceed the spec they have stretched and need to be replaced. If not they are good to use again. -Dave Walton On 8/22/09, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: So when I go to put it back together I do need to use new bolts? I wondered about that. Peter Frederick wrote: Yes, it does. Center out, as always, to avoid trapping stresses. Actual sequence depends on the gasket. Some are two torque steps, some are a single torque step and then two 90 degree turns, with a 10 min settling time between. That was the case on the 603, anyway. Use new bolts, too -- cheaper than another head gasket set when they don't hold and it blows again. you would loosen the bolts from the ends of the cylinder head to the center. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2319 - Release Date: 08/22/09 06:06:00 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090822/e1ac0dda/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
So Im right in the middle of pulling the head on the 140. Im down to pulling the timing chain slide rail pins and removing the head bolts. I have the special MB slide hammer type tool for removing the pins but the WILL NOT budge at all. I have never had problems getting those out with this tool. Im thinking I need to try the other type of extractor tool. What do you guys think? Also, is there a certain order to removing the head bolts? WIS does not say anything about it. Damn, If I cant get those pins out with the tool I have, I will have to order the other till and wont be able to get the head off till next weekend at the earliest. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:13:28 -0500 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: I have the special MB slide hammer type tool for removing the pins but the WILL NOT budge at all. I have never had problems getting those out with this tool. Im thinking I need to try the other type of extractor tool. What do you guys think? Does the shop manual specify a particular type of tool? What is the, other type of extractor tool? Also, is there a certain order to removing the head bolts? WIS does not say anything about it. It wouldn't hurt to loosen them in the opposite manner specified for torquing them upon installation. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
Use the other extractor, it's better than a slide hammer, and is in fact the one specified in the manual. Works great. Loosen the head bolts in reverse order of tightening. I've done that for 30 years or more now, it's pretty much the standard way to do things. There is a specified way to remove the cam, though, and you should follow it. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
Books says side hammer type or screw type can be used. Book does not say what order to tighten bolts, only the sequence of each bolt. IE torq to this spec, then to this, and so on, but not which bolt to do first, 2nd, and so on. Craig McCluskey wrote: On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:13:28 -0500 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: I have the special MB slide hammer type tool for removing the pins but the WILL NOT budge at all. I have never had problems getting those out with this tool. Im thinking I need to try the other type of extractor tool. What do you guys think? Does the shop manual specify a particular type of tool? What is the, other type of extractor tool? Also, is there a certain order to removing the head bolts? WIS does not say anything about it. It wouldn't hurt to loosen them in the opposite manner specified for torquing them upon installation. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2319 - Release Date: 08/22/09 06:06:00 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090822/276e0ba5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
I already removed the cam in the specified manner. Peter Frederick wrote: Use the other extractor, it's better than a slide hammer, and is in fact the one specified in the manual. Works great. Loosen the head bolts in reverse order of tightening. I've done that for 30 years or more now, it's pretty much the standard way to do things. There is a specified way to remove the cam, though, and you should follow it. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
I used a long bolt with multiple layers of washers and a nut to apply pressure. Was not pretty, but it worked. Washers fit over the pin to apply pressure at the base topped off with one with a smaller hole that allowed the nut to seat and transfer pressure to the others. Looking for tightening sequence. If you have a dial gauge, you can check the amount that the piston top protrudes from the block for each cylinder to see if any rods are bent. Put a small bar across the cylinder opening and set to zero. Rotate crank to get highest reading from piston. MAKE SURE you remove vacuum pump or be prepared for the timing chain to lurch forward as you rotate crank. Could take a finger off if your hand is in the wrong place at the wrong time. -Dave Walton On 8/22/09, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: So Im right in the middle of pulling the head on the 140. Im down to pulling the timing chain slide rail pins and removing the head bolts. I have the special MB slide hammer type tool for removing the pins but the WILL NOT budge at all. I have never had problems getting those out with this tool. Im thinking I need to try the other type of extractor tool. What do you guys think? Also, is there a certain order to removing the head bolts? WIS does not say anything about it. Damn, If I cant get those pins out with the tool I have, I will have to order the other till and wont be able to get the head off till next weekend at the earliest. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
My copy of WIS won't start. Not sure why. I see it on the Process list, but no window appears. The sequence is in there somewhere. It's a bad scan of a bad drawing with numbers in circles showing the order. About half the numbers are legible. As I recall there were 2 torque steps, then you turn the bolt 90 degrees to finish it off. -Dave Walton On 8/22/09, dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com wrote: I used a long bolt with multiple layers of washers and a nut to apply pressure. Was not pretty, but it worked. Washers fit over the pin to apply pressure at the base topped off with one with a smaller hole that allowed the nut to seat and transfer pressure to the others. Looking for tightening sequence. If you have a dial gauge, you can check the amount that the piston top protrudes from the block for each cylinder to see if any rods are bent. Put a small bar across the cylinder opening and set to zero. Rotate crank to get highest reading from piston. MAKE SURE you remove vacuum pump or be prepared for the timing chain to lurch forward as you rotate crank. Could take a finger off if your hand is in the wrong place at the wrong time. -Dave Walton On 8/22/09, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: So Im right in the middle of pulling the head on the 140. Im down to pulling the timing chain slide rail pins and removing the head bolts. I have the special MB slide hammer type tool for removing the pins but the WILL NOT budge at all. I have never had problems getting those out with this tool. Im thinking I need to try the other type of extractor tool. What do you guys think? Also, is there a certain order to removing the head bolts? WIS does not say anything about it. Damn, If I cant get those pins out with the tool I have, I will have to order the other till and wont be able to get the head off till next weekend at the earliest. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
Actually, it does, but not by number. I'll dig it up later. Center out, alternating sides. Big pain, really takes two people to do, one to work the wrench and one to keep track of the bolts. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
yea, thats it, but I guess it does not matter what order you do the bolts though. dave walton wrote: My copy of WIS won't start. Not sure why. I see it on the Process list, but no window appears. The sequence is in there somewhere. It's a bad scan of a bad drawing with numbers in circles showing the order. About half the numbers are legible. As I recall there were 2 torque steps, then you turn the bolt 90 degrees to finish it off. -Dave Walton On 8/22/09, dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com wrote: I used a long bolt with multiple layers of washers and a nut to apply pressure. Was not pretty, but it worked. Washers fit over the pin to apply pressure at the base topped off with one with a smaller hole that allowed the nut to seat and transfer pressure to the others. Looking for tightening sequence. If you have a dial gauge, you can check the amount that the piston top protrudes from the block for each cylinder to see if any rods are bent. Put a small bar across the cylinder opening and set to zero. Rotate crank to get highest reading from piston. MAKE SURE you remove vacuum pump or be prepared for the timing chain to lurch forward as you rotate crank. Could take a finger off if your hand is in the wrong place at the wrong time. -Dave Walton On 8/22/09, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: So Im right in the middle of pulling the head on the 140. Im down to pulling the timing chain slide rail pins and removing the head bolts. I have the special MB slide hammer type tool for removing the pins but the WILL NOT budge at all. I have never had problems getting those out with this tool. Im thinking I need to try the other type of extractor tool. What do you guys think? Also, is there a certain order to removing the head bolts? WIS does not say anything about it. Damn, If I cant get those pins out with the tool I have, I will have to order the other till and wont be able to get the head off till next weekend at the earliest. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2319 - Release Date: 08/22/09 06:06:00 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090822/8baedb2b/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
Yes, it does. Center out, as always, to avoid trapping stresses. Actual sequence depends on the gasket. Some are two torque steps, some are a single torque step and then two 90 degree turns, with a 10 min settling time between. That was the case on the 603, anyway. Use new bolts, too -- cheaper than another head gasket set when they don't hold and it blows again. you would loosen the bolts from the ends of the cylinder head to the center. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
So when I go to put it back together I do need to use new bolts? I wondered about that. Peter Frederick wrote: Yes, it does. Center out, as always, to avoid trapping stresses. Actual sequence depends on the gasket. Some are two torque steps, some are a single torque step and then two 90 degree turns, with a 10 min settling time between. That was the case on the 603, anyway. Use new bolts, too -- cheaper than another head gasket set when they don't hold and it blows again. you would loosen the bolts from the ends of the cylinder head to the center. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2319 - Release Date: 08/22/09 06:06:00 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090822/e1ac0dda/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
When I did the head on my SDL, there was a specific pattern given in the manual. Same pattern for both tightening and loosening. Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (281,xxx mi) '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x59,xxx mi) BioBeast '82 300CD (183 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine The Accordion Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: So Im right in the middle of pulling the head on the 140. Im down to pulling the timing chain slide rail pins and removing the head bolts. I have the special MB slide hammer type tool for removing the pins but the WILL NOT budge at all. I have never had problems getting those out with this tool. Im thinking I need to try the other type of extractor tool. What do you guys think? Also, is there a certain order to removing the head bolts? WIS does not say anything about it. Damn, If I cant get those pins out with the tool I have, I will have to order the other till and wont be able to get the head off till next weekend at the earliest. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
That was the recommendation I got from the guy who made his living working on MBs -- not cheap, but they tend to not hold very well the second time. Far less hassle than another head RR, too. I had no choice, anyway, one broke off at the rear where the head gasket was blown into the bolt hole on #6. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
I measured the head bolts and all of mine were on the short end of the manual recommended range. 30,000mi+ later and the engine still runs like a top. Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (281,xxx mi) '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x59,xxx mi) BioBeast '82 300CD (183 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine The Accordion Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: So when I go to put it back together I do need to use new bolts? I wondered about that. Peter Frederick wrote: Yes, it does. Center out, as always, to avoid trapping stresses. Actual sequence depends on the gasket. Some are two torque steps, some are a single torque step and then two 90 degree turns, with a 10 min settling time between. That was the case on the 603, anyway. Use new bolts, too -- cheaper than another head gasket set when they don't hold and it blows again. you would loosen the bolts from the ends of the cylinder head to the center. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
new bolts are a little over $70 from Rusty. Peter Frederick wrote: That was the recommendation I got from the guy who made his living working on MBs -- not cheap, but they tend to not hold very well the second time. Far less hassle than another head RR, too. I had no choice, anyway, one broke off at the rear where the head gasket was blown into the bolt hole on #6. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.64/2319 - Release Date: 08/22/09 06:06:00 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090822/768dab36/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] pulling the head on my 140
We used new bolts on the '87 603 head - Iprobably still have the old ones if you want to measure them all (yours and mine) and use the best of the bunch. However, I'd just order a new set from Rusty with the gasket set. On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote: new bolts are a little over $70 from Rusty. -- OK Don Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090822/ff3da7b3/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
