subject:"Re\: \[MBZ\] Ted Cruz\?"

Natural born - does that mean you have to be conceived in the natural way?  No 
turkey basters, no homosexual unions, no external wombs or baby breeder boxes?

clay



On Mar 26, 2015, at 6:30 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 Why not? The constitution says Natural born American it doesn't say born 
 on American soil which would after all exclude John Mcain...
 -Curt
 
  From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Dan Penoff dpen...@verizon.net; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:34 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
 
 The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
 office of President are unique to that office.
 
 It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
 requirements.
 
 But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
 make.
 
 On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.
 
 Dan
 
 On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.
 
 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
 pirates of the Caribbean.
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

He was hatched in Canuck land, then moved to TX.

clay

On Mar 26, 2015, at 6:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born citizen.
 Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres really 
 no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots who 
 questioned Obama's citizenship.
 -Curt
 
  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
 
 He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.
 
 Dan
 
 
 
 On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.  
 
 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates 
 of the Caribbean.
 
 
 
 
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Service persons register the birth with the US Embassy or Consulate. McCain
was born on US soil in the Canal Zone (Which was at the time) in a US Hospital,
to US citizen parents. Still was registered at the embassy. Obama, on the
other hand was born in Africa, Kenyan father, White mother. Would have been
British at the time.

clay

On Mar 26, 2015, at 8:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had kittens
in the oven would you call them biscuits?
He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no intention of
becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So technically he's an
American born abroad like so many children of active servicepersons.
-Curt
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born citizen.
Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots
who questioned Obama's citizenship.
-Curt

From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan

On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

Hold on! Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates
of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-27 Thread Peter Frederick

Hawai'i was a state in 1961, and has been a US territory since 1900 or  
so.  Not very  close to Kenya.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

So BHO Sr. is a child rapist?  Statutory at least.  Inter racial mating was 
sort of illegal in many states at the time as well.

So he is the bastard son of a pedophile rapist?

clay



On Mar 26, 2015, at 12:42 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 Worthwhile to point out, Stanley Ann Dunham was 17 at time of birth, thus,
 a minor under the existing law and not in possession of transferable
 citizenship rights since at that time, a 17 yr. old could not legally sign
 documents.
 
 Legally, Mr. Obama Sr. was married to another woman, thus the marriage to
 Stanley Ann was null and void under existing law [then and now, bigamy is
 not lawful]. Thus, there is question to be raised as to how he is shown on
 the presented Hawaii document.
 
 Inquiring minds want answers.. but, the records are sealed.. why?
 
 On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 
 
 
 Obama was born in Hawaii, a US state, to an American mother.
 -Curt
 
 
 THat is the party line, but there is no evidence presented.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-27 Thread Andrew Strasfogel

Wow, to think I didn't know that  thanks to the lamestream media
suppressing the Truth.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 11:27 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:

 very well put

 LarryT
 91 300D

 On 3/24/2015 11:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 Somewhere, in the last 239 years, we as a country shifted from being a
 Constitutional Republic to acting like a Democracy.

 The best description of a Democracy I've heard is: Two wolves and One
 sheep
 voting on what to eat for dinner.

 The best description of a Republic I've heard is: One well armed sheep
 inviting the Two wolves to eat all the grass they want for dinner.

 Somehow, along the way our elected representatives stop asking the
 question
 What is best for America and started asking only the question What can
 I
 do to get re-elected. Regardless of the political party, the current lot
 in office have failed to do the job they were elected to do and the
 Citizens, regardless of party, are, for the most part, aware of that
 failure.

 If we are lucky, we can fix it at the ballot box. If we are not lucky, it
 will come to the fox hole.

 If the ship of state were an airliner, it would be off course and entering
 an uncontrolled decent. Immediate corrective action would be required, if
 we wanted to live.

 Respectfully,

 Grant...

 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 7:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

As George Washington pointed out, we shouldn't have parties because we
 can already see what happens when we do.

 People tend to divide themselves based on the parties, rather than based
 on the issues. Many aren't actually listening to what is being said, they
 are too busy trying to push everyone into a particular little square on
 the
 ballot.

 We can't get anywhere because people (including the politicians
 themselves) are too busy naming the other side as their enemy to actually
 get things done. They're playing politics like it's a game, one that they
 have to win, and not actually thinking about the reality or consequences
 of
 their actions.
 Gerry
 ..

 Curly McLain wrote:

  Who thinks there will be a  third party candidate this time around?

 Get Jokin Joe (Biteme) to run as the 3rd party.  He'd probably get
 more votes than  the queen of arKansas!

 He could run as a 1901 Progressive!

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-27 Thread G Mann

Thank you, however, I'm just an American Citizen who, like a large
percentage of other American Citizens, is shocked and dismayed at the
repeat offenses committed by the elected officials and those who they
appoint.

I feel moved to point out, as example, the latest action by Mrs. Clinton
regards the use of a private email server to conduct state business. She is
an attorney, so it is not presumptive that her duty to know the law stands
at a greater standard than Joe Citizen, yet, for reasons yet explained,
she violated the Federal law which requires open records of Sec of State
actions. Then, when Congress subpenaed her records, she first delayed, then
gave them printed copies of what she decided they should have, not the
whole record. Now, yet another Congressional subpena was issued for the
hard drive and it's announced that she scrubbed the drive.. again without
any authority to do so, and in violation of the subpena.

Here is someone who for some time has been the presumed anointed
candidate for POTUS. Now, before anyone jumps on the party bandwagon for
what ever party wishes to claim I just insulted them.. the leaders of the
other party have committed public sin on equal scale.

The real question I have unanswered is... how long before the Citizens
stand up and start to say I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take this
anymore ?

History says that will happen.. it's only a matter of when.

In my personal opinion, of course.

Grant...

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 8:27 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:

 very well put

 LarryT
 91 300D

 On 3/24/2015 11:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 Somewhere, in the last 239 years, we as a country shifted from being a
 Constitutional Republic to acting like a Democracy.

 The best description of a Democracy I've heard is: Two wolves and One
 sheep
 voting on what to eat for dinner.

 The best description of a Republic I've heard is: One well armed sheep
 inviting the Two wolves to eat all the grass they want for dinner.

 Somehow, along the way our elected representatives stop asking the
 question
 What is best for America and started asking only the question What can
 I
 do to get re-elected. Regardless of the political party, the current lot
 in office have failed to do the job they were elected to do and the
 Citizens, regardless of party, are, for the most part, aware of that
 failure.

 If we are lucky, we can fix it at the ballot box. If we are not lucky, it
 will come to the fox hole.

 If the ship of state were an airliner, it would be off course and entering
 an uncontrolled decent. Immediate corrective action would be required, if
 we wanted to live.

 Respectfully,

 Grant...

 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 7:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

As George Washington pointed out, we shouldn't have parties because we
 can already see what happens when we do.

 People tend to divide themselves based on the parties, rather than based
 on the issues. Many aren't actually listening to what is being said, they
 are too busy trying to push everyone into a particular little square on
 the
 ballot.

 We can't get anywhere because people (including the politicians
 themselves) are too busy naming the other side as their enemy to actually
 get things done. They're playing politics like it's a game, one that they
 have to win, and not actually thinking about the reality or consequences
 of
 their actions.
 Gerry
 ..

 Curly McLain wrote:

  Who thinks there will be a  third party candidate this time around?

 Get Jokin Joe (Biteme) to run as the 3rd party.  He'd probably get
 more votes than  the queen of arKansas!

 He could run as a 1901 Progressive!

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

IT was a state in 1959, but BHO was not born there.  His mother was subjected 
to child rape there and gave birth in the land of his father.

clay

On Mar 27, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

 Hawai'i was a state in 1961, and has been a US territory since 1900 or so.  
 Not very  close to Kenya.
 
 Peter
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-27 Thread LarryT

very well put

LarryT
91 300D

On 3/24/2015 11:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Somewhere, in the last 239 years, we as a country shifted from being a
Constitutional Republic to acting like a Democracy.

The best description of a Democracy I've heard is: Two wolves and One sheep
voting on what to eat for dinner.

The best description of a Republic I've heard is: One well armed sheep
inviting the Two wolves to eat all the grass they want for dinner.

Somehow, along the way our elected representatives stop asking the question
What is best for America and started asking only the question What can I
do to get re-elected. Regardless of the political party, the current lot
in office have failed to do the job they were elected to do and the
Citizens, regardless of party, are, for the most part, aware of that
failure.

If we are lucky, we can fix it at the ballot box. If we are not lucky, it
will come to the fox hole.

If the ship of state were an airliner, it would be off course and entering
an uncontrolled decent. Immediate corrective action would be required, if
we wanted to live.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 7:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

As George Washington pointed out, we shouldn't have parties because we
can already see what happens when we do.

People tend to divide themselves based on the parties, rather than based
on the issues. Many aren't actually listening to what is being said, they
are too busy trying to push everyone into a particular little square on the
ballot.

We can't get anywhere because people (including the politicians
themselves) are too busy naming the other side as their enemy to actually
get things done. They're playing politics like it's a game, one that they
have to win, and not actually thinking about the reality or consequences of
their actions.
Gerry
..

Curly McLain wrote:

Who thinks there will be a third party candidate this time around?

Get Jokin Joe (Biteme) to run as the 3rd party. He'd probably get
more votes than the queen of arKansas!

He could run as a 1901 Progressive!

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4315/9374 - Release Date: 03/24/15

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born citizen.
Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres really 
no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots who 
questioned Obama's citizenship.
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
   
He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan



 On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.  
 
 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates 
 of the Caribbean.
 
 


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Why not? The constitution says Natural born American it doesn't say born on
American soil which would after all exclude John Mcain...
-Curt

From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Dan Penoff dpen...@verizon.net; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan

On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

Hold on! Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
pirates of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

His father was a minister - he's got religion in spades.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:43 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Gerry wrote:
  P.S. Cruz got only 5% in a Quinnipiac pole compared to Walkers 17%.

 Walker seems good.
 Probably no grey hair.
 Cruz is no grey hair.
 Dump the teabag jazz and he might do well.
 Walker needs to get religion.
 mao

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Easy assumption hold on.. It's the Koch brothers calling again...
brb... ;))

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Funny little thing.. Mr. B. Obama, while in congress, demanded that Mr. J.
McCain was not eligible to serve as President because of his location of
birth in Panama. After raising a high stink over it, it was determined
that
Mr. McCain, born of TWO American citizens, one on duty serving in US
Military, in Panama, did indeed meet the requirements of Constitution as a
Natural Born Citizen.
The settled point of law being, location of birth does not impart
Citizenship to a Citizen born to TWO American Citizens. Rather,
Citizenship
of the child carries via Citizenship of Parent Citizens, not their
location
at time of birth.

Mr. B. Obama Jr. then sealed all his records, and ran for the office of
president, while it is common knowledge that Mr. B. Obama Sr. never
obtained US Citizenship. Thus raising the, as yet unanswered, question as
to his exact legal status.

Small point of law, but law is made of small points. This issue continues
to be argued by both sides of the argument without proper resolution.
Simple solution, requiring presentation of valid, certifiable documents..
not forthcoming.

Most curious, in my personal opinion.

Respectfully,

Grant...

Hidden because there is something to hide.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

If Cruz leads the balloting in the primaries and appears headed toward the
R nomination, the Koch Bros. will fund a search that miraculaously locates
Cruz' USA birth certificate tucked away in Grandma's linen cabinet.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

There's no way he could be Canadian -- bullfeathers, he's as Canadian as
anyone else born in Calgary, Alberta.

Unlike Obama, Cruz WAS born outside the USA. He has, believe it or not, a
valid Canadian birth certificate, which makes him a citizen just like
having a US birth certificate makes someone a US citizen. Curiously he
manage to renounce said Canadian citizenship in record time -- it normally
takes six or eight years to fully complete the process, and Conrad Black
fought for almost 20 years to renounce his. It's not a matter of walking
in and saying I don't wanna be anymore.

His mother also did not register his birth with a US Consular Officer,
which is required to establish the validity of his claim to citizenship,
and he must be a resident of the US for 14 years past the date of claim to
be eligible to be President. Lot's of unaswered questions there, and Cruz
certainly isn't going to do anything to clear them up, especially the data
at which a Consular Official of some sort was notified of his birth to a US
citizen.

I have also heard, true or not, that since first generation children of
Cuban citizens are considered Cuban citizens by Cuba and it is IMPOSSIBLE
to renounce Cuban citizenship at the moment under the Castro goverment,
that Cruz is a bona fide citizen of Cuba. This will definitely prevent him
being President of the US. Papa Cruz was a Cuban citizen until the 1990s
sometime, and in Cuban law probably still is.

McCain was born outside the US, but that event occurred in a military
hospital in the Canal Zone in Panama, considered US soil, and said birth
was properly recorded.

Lots of fodder for the speculation machine that passes for political
discourse in the US.

I do notice a deafening silence from the birthers who howled about Obama
though.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes

There's no way he could be Canadian -- bullfeathers, he's as
Canadian as anyone else born in Calgary, Alberta.

Unlike Obama, Cruz WAS born outside the USA. He has, believe it or
not, a valid Canadian birth certificate, which makes him a citizen
just like having a US birth certificate makes someone a US citizen.
Curiously he manage to renounce said Canadian citizenship in record
time -- it normally takes six or eight years to fully complete the
process, and Conrad Black fought for almost 20 years to renounce his.
It's not a matter of walking in and saying I don't wanna be anymore.

His mother also did not register his birth with a US Consular Officer,
which is required to establish the validity of his claim to
citizenship, and he must be a resident of the US for 14 years past the
date of claim to be eligible to be President. Lot's of unaswered
questions there, and Cruz certainly isn't going to do anything to
clear them up, especially the data at which a Consular Official of
some sort was notified of his birth to a US citizen.

I have also heard, true or not, that since first generation children
of Cuban citizens are considered Cuban citizens by Cuba and it is
IMPOSSIBLE to renounce Cuban citizenship at the moment under the
Castro goverment, that Cruz is a bona fide citizen of Cuba. This will
definitely prevent him being President of the US. Papa Cruz was a
Cuban citizen until the 1990s sometime, and in Cuban law probably
still is.

McCain was born outside the US, but that event occurred in a military
hospital in the Canal Zone in Panama, considered US soil, and said
birth was properly recorded.

Lots of fodder for the speculation machine that passes for political
discourse in the US.

I do notice a deafening silence from the birthers who howled about
Obama though.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?


Funny little thing.. Mr. B. Obama, while in congress, demanded that Mr. J.
McCain was not eligible to serve as President because of his location of
birth in Panama. After raising a high stink over it, it was determined that
Mr. McCain, born of TWO American citizens, one on duty serving in US
Military, in Panama, did indeed meet the requirements of Constitution as a
Natural Born Citizen.
The settled point of law being, location of birth does not impart
Citizenship to a Citizen born to TWO American Citizens. Rather, Citizenship
of the child carries via Citizenship of Parent Citizens, not their location
at time of birth.

Mr. B. Obama Jr. then sealed all his records, and ran for the office of
president, while it is common knowledge that Mr. B. Obama Sr. never
obtained US Citizenship. Thus raising the, as yet unanswered, question as
to his exact legal status.

Small point of law, but law is made of small points. This issue continues
to be argued by both sides of the argument without proper resolution.
Simple solution, requiring presentation of valid, certifiable documents..
not forthcoming.

Most curious, in my personal opinion.

Respectfully,

Grant...


Hidden because there is something to hide.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes

There is lots of misinformation in this thread.  US Immigration and
Naturalization laws are among the most complex laws on the books.  IME most
attorneys, even those specializing in Immigration law do not have a good
understanding of these laws.  Here are some things I know:

It IS in the law (the Immigration and Nationality Act) that any person born
in the US (and subject to its jurisdiction) is a US citizen.  The law
further defines the US as including some outlying places such as Guam and
the Canal Zone (where McCain was born) when it was under US jurisdiction.  A
person who would not be subject to its jurisdiction would be, for example,
a child born to the ambassador of a foreign country.

The US is NOT the only country that confers citizenship on those born in
their territory.

To lose US citizenship (generally) a person must renounce.  This is a term
of art which is defined as a formal renunciation before a US consular
official.  I guess the Canadian laws might be similar.

There are actually several ways to acquire citizenship other than by birth
or naturalization. There is, for example, derivative citizenship acquired by
a child when his parents naturalize.  To make things even more complicated,
there are people who are US Nationals, but NOT citizens, such as people born
on some Pacific islands.

Greg 

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Fiorentino via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:44 PM
To: 'G Mann'; 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

 It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

Well!  I too thought that this was the case, based on my work experience as
a former Immigration Officer/Supervisor.  But recent research has revealed
to me that there is some ambiguity in the legal definition of the term
natural born citizen.  Many competent legal scholars consider any person
who is a citizen at birth, whether or not born in the US to be a natural
born citizen.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann
via Mercedes
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 7:35 PM
To: Dan Penoff; Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:




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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes

 It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

Well!  I too thought that this was the case, based on my work experience as
a former Immigration Officer/Supervisor.  But recent research has revealed
to me that there is some ambiguity in the legal definition of the term
natural born citizen.  Many competent legal scholars consider any person
who is a citizen at birth, whether or not born in the US to be a natural
born citizen.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann
via Mercedes
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 7:35 PM
To: Dan Penoff; Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:




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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Given the outrageous, narrow minded, and highly inflammatory views of Sen.
Cruz (not that there's anything wrong with that), it would be quite a leap
for the Party of Lincoln to choose him as their standard bearer.

Now the Teabag party is another matter. They absolutely LOVE this
guy. This is why i predict at lesat a three way race in 2016. Add Ted to
the mix of Hillary (if she runs), Jeb, and possibly Bernie Sanders.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those
unique
requirements.

Well! I too thought that this was the case, based on my work experience as
a former Immigration Officer/Supervisor. But recent research has revealed
to me that there is some ambiguity in the legal definition of the term
natural born citizen. Many competent legal scholars consider any person
who is a citizen at birth, whether or not born in the US to be a natural
born citizen.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann
via Mercedes
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 7:35 PM
To: Dan Penoff; Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

Why couldn't even I (born in NC to parents and several grnparents all born 
in NC) become a Canadian citizen?  ('Cept I've shoveled more than my share 
of snow and don't want it; otherwise I would consider it quite an honor.) 
;)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?




But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to 
give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children in 
the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.


RB

On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had 
kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no 
intention of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So 
technically he's an American born abroad like so many children of 
active servicepersons.

-Curt
   From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
  To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

RB



On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born 
citizen.
Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres 
really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the 
idiots who questioned Obama's citizenship.

-Curt

 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
   To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
   Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
 He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan



On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
wrote:


Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from 
pirates of the Caribbean.




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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Excellent point.

Pretty sure there are no newly freed slaves to be affected by that
amendment remaining..  Perhaps it's usefulness has expired.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Another strange artifact of slavery.  The intent (14th amendment, 1868) was
 to make it clear that the freed slaves were citizens (which was pretty-much
 all of them, slave trade ended in 1808).  On one hand, this should be fixed
 because it creates the anchor baby situation.  On the other hand, this
 would
 not be a problem if folks still took JFK's words to heart.

  -Original Message-
  From: G Mann
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:22 AM
 
  Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
  Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for
  Mexican children [principally].
 
 ...



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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes

Another strange artifact of slavery.  The intent (14th amendment, 1868) was
to make it clear that the freed slaves were citizens (which was pretty-much
all of them, slave trade ended in 1808).  On one hand, this should be fixed
because it creates the anchor baby situation.  On the other hand, this would
not be a problem if folks still took JFK's words to heart.

 -Original Message-
 From: G Mann 
 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:22 AM
 
 Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
 Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for
 Mexican children [principally].
 
...



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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?




Thankfully (?), he is such an over the top extremist that there is a
less-than-even chance the R party won't nominate him.



You are right, the R party wont nominate anyone but a liberal ala 
tailhook mccain or Willard.   However, he does represnt mainstream 
Americans, and given a chance, Americans Might very well nominate him.


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?





Obama was born in Hawaii, a US state, to an American mother.
-Curt


THat is the party line, but there is no evidence presented.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Worthwhile to point out, Stanley Ann Dunham was 17 at time of birth, thus,
a minor under the existing law and not in possession of transferable
citizenship rights since at that time, a 17 yr. old could not legally sign
documents.

Legally, Mr. Obama Sr. was married to another woman, thus the marriage to
Stanley Ann was null and void under existing law [then and now, bigamy is
not lawful]. Thus, there is question to be raised as to how he is shown on
the presented Hawaii document.

Inquiring minds want answers.. but, the records are sealed.. why?

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:




 Obama was born in Hawaii, a US state, to an American mother.
 -Curt


 THat is the party line, but there is no evidence presented.


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?


Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for Mexican
children [principally].

If you and your pregnant wife visit Mexico and the child is born there,
Mexico WILL NOT confer Mexican Citizenship to that child. Same for every
other country.

The immigration system is full of strange little twists.. Best friend here
is an immigration atty with 35 yrs of practice.. we often talk of such
things.


Actually, no that is not the law.  It is a custom.   There is no law 
that confers citizenship to babies born here of furrners.There 
otta be a law...


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?


If Cruz leads the balloting in the primaries and appears headed toward the
R nomination, the Koch Bros. will fund a search that miraculaously locates
Cruz' USA birth certificate tucked away in Grandma's linen cabinet.


Its been done before!

Would that bother you?

If so, why didn't it bother you the last time?

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?


Peter sez:

Unlike Obama, Cruz WAS born outside the USA.  He has, believe it or 
not, a valid Canadian birth certificate, which makes him a citizen 
just like having a US birth certificate makes someone a US citizen.


BZZT   WRONG!

Canada does not have anchor babies!   NO OTHER country in the world 
has a law that makes a baby born to foreigners a citizen.In FACT 
the US of A has no such law.   Anchor Baby is a practice, but there 
is NO such law.


If you disagree, show the documentation that a foreign baby born in 
Canada is automatically a Canuk!


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread archer75--- via Mercedes

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

...
Peter Frederick wrote:

There's no way he could be Canadian -- bullfeathers, he's as Canadian as
anyone else born in Calgary, Alberta.

McCain was born outside the US, but that event occurred in a military
hospital in the Canal Zone in Panama, considered US soil, and said birth
was properly recorded.

Lots of fodder for the speculation machine that passes for political
discourse in the US.

I do notice a deafening silence from the birthers who howled about Obama
though.

Peter

With a Republican majority Supreme Court, Cruz will become president if he gets
the nomination and wins the election.
However, extremists such as Cruz are seldom nominated. A usually accurate poll
shows the following:

A new Bloomberg Politics/Saint Anselm New Hampshire poll shows Jeb Bush has
taken a slight lead over other potential Republican presidential candidates.

When asked who they would vote for if the 2016 New Hampshire presidential
primary were held today, 16 percent of respondents picked the former Florida
governor. Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky was second with 13 percent, Gov. Scott
Walker of Wisconsin followed with 12 percent, and Gov. Chris Christie of New
Jersey earned 10 percent.

I would think it will be either Jeb Bush or Scott Walker, the candidate favored
by big business because he defeated a union; the Wisconsin Teachers Union. Of
those two, I would pick Walker since Bushs conservatism is suspect in many
right wing republicans minds.
Gerry
P.S. Cruz got only 5% in a Quinnipiac pole compared to Walkers 17%.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?


Andrew sez:

Now the Teabag party is another matter.  They absolutely LOVE this
guy.  This is why i predict at lesat a three way race in 2016.  Add Ted to
the mix of Hillary (if she runs), Jeb, and possibly Bernie Sanders.


There is no teabag party.  Show me one ballot that lists a candidate 
of the teabag party


I'm waiting...



Besides, you were assigned to get Jokin Joe Biden to run (in his own 
party if he likes)   Tend to that business!


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

And there is no Obummer!

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

There is lots of misinformation in this thread. US Immigration and
Naturalization laws are among the most complex laws on the books. IME most
attorneys, even those specializing in Immigration law do not have a good
understanding of these laws. Here are some things I know:

It IS in the law (the Immigration and Nationality Act) that any person born
in the US (and subject to its jurisdiction) is a US citizen. The law
further defines the US as including some outlying places such as Guam and
the Canal Zone (where McCain was born) when it was under US jurisdiction.
A
person who would not be subject to its jurisdiction would be, for
example,
a child born to the ambassador of a foreign country.

The US is NOT the only country that confers citizenship on those born in
their territory.

To lose US citizenship (generally) a person must renounce. This is a term
of art which is defined as a formal renunciation before a US consular
official. I guess the Canadian laws might be similar.

There are actually several ways to acquire citizenship other than by birth
or naturalization. There is, for example, derivative citizenship acquired
by
a child when his parents naturalize. To make things even more complicated,
there are people who are US Nationals, but NOT citizens, such as people
born
on some Pacific islands.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Fiorentino via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:44 PM
To: 'G Mann'; 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those
unique
requirements.

Greg

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes

Gerry wrote:
 P.S. Cruz got only 5% in a Quinnipiac pole compared to Walkers 17%.

Walker seems good.
Probably no grey hair.
Cruz is no grey hair.
Dump the teabag jazz and he might do well.
Walker needs to get religion.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes


Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do 
not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the 
USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an 
American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a 
permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.


Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through 
my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother 
in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.


RB

On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born citizen.
Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres really 
no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots who 
questioned Obama's citizenship.
-Curt

   From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.


Dan




On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates of 
the Caribbean.




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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

When did we become a country where a father's citizenship establishes that of
the child? A child born to an American parent who wishes to be American is
American. In Cruz's case its clear he's not Canadian, theres no Canadian
parent. He doesn't wish to be Cuban so ipso-facto he's American, easy as that.
Why make things any more difficult?
-Curt
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

The technical question of law which I don't know is: Was Mr. Cruz Sr. an
American Citizen at the time of Mr. Cruz Jr. birth?

My current information says he was still legally a Cuban Citizen and had not
yet become a Naturalized American Citizen, thus not meeting special
Constitutional requirements for his son to hold the office of President..

I accept that my information is less than perfect, please clear that issue for
me.

Thank you,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had kittens in
the oven would you call them biscuits?
He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no intention of
becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So technically he's an
American born abroad like so many children of active servicepersons.
-Curt
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born citizen.
Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres really
no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots who
questioned Obama's citizenship.
-Curt

From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan

On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Hold on! Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates
of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

I would draw your attention to the status of :
Native Born Citizen
Natural Born Citizen [special requirement for POTUS]
and
Naturalized Citizen

Each have specific requirements. The issue of Natural Born Citizen has
been heard several times before the US Supreme Court and each time
determined to be a Citizen born of Citizen Parents [both mother and
father]. Thus a point of settled law.

A child born of Mexican parents, on American soil, [so called anchor
baby] is given Native Born Citizenship, yet by Constitutional Law, could
not serve as President, yet would have full rights of Citizenship in all
other matters.
[Yes, I know, gets complicated quickly.]

A Naturalized Citizen was born and held Citizenship in another country and
after fulfilling all legal requirements, becomes Naturalized and would
have full rights of Citizenship in all other matters, but could not hold
the office of POTUS..

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Its not specific though, it says natural born citizen explain exactly
what that means...
I'd posit that there is natural born citizen and naturalized citizen
there are no other statuses with citizen in them, if you are not one you
must be the other. Thus since they were not naturalized both Cruz and Obama
are natural born citizens, the immigration status of the father plays into
it not at all.
-Curt
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Well.. I could quickly agree that Mr. B. Obama Jr. father was unknown if
presented with a verifiable birth certificate that so stated.. Which I have
not.

Again, the Constitution requires very specific Citizenship of the office
of President. Thus the basis of this discussion, which I hope will remain
civil.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

In 2008 Hilary and Obama co-sponsored a bill that specifically said McCain
was an American citizen, shut your rabble rousing.
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/04/11/clinton-obama-agree-mccains-a-natural-born-citizen/

Obama was born in Hawaii, a US state, to an American mother. I'm pretty
sure being born on American soil to an American parent makes you an
American no matter the nationality of his father, in fact the father
shouldn't even enter into it. If the father were unknown we wouldn't be
having this discussion...
-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

I always knew you were Special ... ;))



On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 I'm a natchull born lover man, I'm a hootchie cootchie man!  No B! - O
 child - Y...

 --R




 On 3/26/15 11:37 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 Fair point, however, when it comes to divining what logic [if any] may be
 behind any rule made by Immigration and Naturalization Agency, I'm at a
 total loss.


 It seems much confusion exists over the term:
   Natural Born Citizen [as required by Constitution to be President]
 as opposed to:
   Native Born Citizen
 and: Naturalized Citizen
 A person may hold ONE of those legal Citizenship status, but not Two.

 Case law on those points makes several days of close reading necessary and
 I invite anyone who wishes to do that. It seems to me, much of the emotion
 and argument we see over this issue is based on lack of details as to
 those
 definitions applied to the current POTUS and the possible contender POTUS.

 Respectfully,

 Grant...

 On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  Most of it is so we can tweak other countries no?
 I'm thinking specifically of Cuba...
 -Curt

From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
   To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
   Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:22 AM
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

 Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
 Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for
 Mexican
 children [principally].

 If you and your pregnant wife visit Mexico and the child is born there,
 Mexico WILL NOT confer Mexican Citizenship to that child. Same for every
 other country.

 The immigration system is full of strange little twists.. Best friend
 here
 is an immigration atty with 35 yrs of practice.. we often talk of such
 things.

 On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
 If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to
 give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children
 in
 the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.

 RB


 On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

  Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had
 kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
 He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no
 intention of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So
 technically he's an American born abroad like so many children of

 active

 servicepersons.
 -Curt
 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
   To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
   Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
 Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in
 Canada?
 Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
 not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
 USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
 American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
 permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

 Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
 my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my
 mother
 in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

 RB



 On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

  It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born
 citizen.
 Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
 really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the

 idiots

 who questioned Obama's citizenship.
 -Curt

   From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
   He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

 Dan



   On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com

 wrote:

 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
 pirates of the Caribbean.


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

In 2008 Hilary and Obama co-sponsored a bill that specifically said McCain was
an American citizen, shut your rabble
rousing.http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/04/11/clinton-obama-agree-mccains-a-natural-born-citizen/

Obama was born in Hawaii, a US state, to an American mother. I'm pretty sure
being born on American soil to an American parent makes you an American no
matter the nationality of his father, in fact the father shouldn't even enter
into it. If the father were unknown we wouldn't be having this discussion...
-Curt

From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Funny little thing.. Mr. B. Obama, while in congress, demanded that Mr. J.
McCain was not eligible to serve as President because of his location of birth
in Panama. After raising a high stink over it, it was determined that Mr.
McCain, born of TWO American citizens, one on duty serving in US Military, in
Panama, did indeed meet the requirements of Constitution as a Natural Born
Citizen.
The settled point of law being, location of birth does not impart Citizenship
to a Citizen born to TWO American Citizens. Rather, Citizenship of the child
carries via Citizenship of Parent Citizens, not their location at time of birth.

Mr. B. Obama Jr. then sealed all his records, and ran for the office of
president, while it is common knowledge that Mr. B. Obama Sr. never obtained US
Citizenship. Thus raising the, as yet unanswered, question as to his exact
legal status.

Small point of law, but law is made of small points. This issue continues to be
argued by both sides of the argument without proper resolution. Simple
solution, requiring presentation of valid, certifiable documents.. not
forthcoming.

Most curious, in my personal opinion.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Why not? The constitution says Natural born American it doesn't say born on
American soil which would after all exclude John Mcain...
-Curt

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan

On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

Hold on! Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
pirates of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Funny little thing.. Mr. B. Obama, while in congress, demanded that Mr. J.
McCain was not eligible to serve as President because of his location of
birth in Panama. After raising a high stink over it, it was determined that
Mr. McCain, born of TWO American citizens, one on duty serving in US
Military, in Panama, did indeed meet the requirements of Constitution as a
Natural Born Citizen.
The settled point of law being, location of birth does not impart
Citizenship to a Citizen born to TWO American Citizens. Rather, Citizenship
of the child carries via Citizenship of Parent Citizens, not their location
at time of birth.

Most curious, in my personal opinion.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Why not? The constitution says Natural born American it doesn't say
born on American soil which would after all exclude John Mcain...
-Curt

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan

On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

Hold on! Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
pirates of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Its not specific though, it says natural born citizen explain exactly what
that means...
I'd posit that there is natural born citizen and naturalized citizen there
are no other statuses with citizen in them, if you are not one you must be
the other. Thus since they were not naturalized both Cruz and Obama are natural
born citizens, the immigration status of the father plays into it not at all.
-Curt
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Well.. I could quickly agree that Mr. B. Obama Jr. father was unknown if
presented with a verifiable birth certificate that so stated.. Which I have not.

Again, the Constitution requires very specific Citizenship of the office of
President. Thus the basis of this discussion, which I hope will remain civil.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

In 2008 Hilary and Obama co-sponsored a bill that specifically said McCain was
an American citizen, shut your rabble
rousing.http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/04/11/clinton-obama-agree-mccains-a-natural-born-citizen/

Obama was born in Hawaii, a US state, to an American mother. I'm pretty sure
being born on American soil to an American parent makes you an American no
matter the nationality of his father, in fact the father shouldn't even enter
into it. If the father were unknown we wouldn't be having this discussion...
-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

I think we (and I really mean the media) worry about it too much. If he/she was 
born:A. To an American parentorB. On US soiland has never had citizenship in 
another country then he/she is American, easy as that. We should probably have 
a constitutional amendment that says so, get all this foolishness over with 
once and for all, its just a distraction.
-Curt
  From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:37 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Fair point, however, when it comes to divining what logic [if any] may be 
behind any rule made by Immigration and Naturalization Agency, I'm at a total 
loss.

It seems much confusion exists over the term:
 Natural Born Citizen [as required by Constitution to be President]
as opposed to:
 Native Born Citizen
and: Naturalized Citizen
A person may hold ONE of those legal Citizenship status, but not Two.

Case law on those points makes several days of close reading necessary and I 
invite anyone who wishes to do that. It seems to me, much of the emotion and 
argument we see over this issue is based on lack of details as to those 
definitions applied to the current POTUS and the possible contender POTUS.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Most of it is so we can tweak other countries no?
I'm thinking specifically of Cuba...
-Curt

      From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:22 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for Mexican
children [principally].

If you and your pregnant wife visit Mexico and the child is born there,
Mexico WILL NOT confer Mexican Citizenship to that child. Same for every
other country.

The immigration system is full of strange little twists.. Best friend here
is an immigration atty with 35 yrs of practice.. we often talk of such
things.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
 If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to
 give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children in
 the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.

 RB

 On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had
 kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
 He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no
 intention of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So
 technically he's an American born abroad like so many children of active
 servicepersons.
 -Curt
        From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
  To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
    Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
 Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
 not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
 USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
 American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
 permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

 Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
 my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
 in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

 RB

 On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born
 citizen.
 Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
 really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots
 who questioned Obama's citizenship.
 -Curt

          From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
    To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
    Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
    Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
      He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

 Dan

  On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:

 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
 pirates of the Caribbean.

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 To search list

Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

I'm a natchull born lover man, I'm a hootchie cootchie man!  No B! - O 
child - Y...


--R



On 3/26/15 11:37 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Fair point, however, when it comes to divining what logic [if any] may be
behind any rule made by Immigration and Naturalization Agency, I'm at a
total loss.


It seems much confusion exists over the term:
  Natural Born Citizen [as required by Constitution to be President]
as opposed to:
  Native Born Citizen
and: Naturalized Citizen
A person may hold ONE of those legal Citizenship status, but not Two.

Case law on those points makes several days of close reading necessary and
I invite anyone who wishes to do that. It seems to me, much of the emotion
and argument we see over this issue is based on lack of details as to those
definitions applied to the current POTUS and the possible contender POTUS.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


Most of it is so we can tweak other countries no?
I'm thinking specifically of Cuba...
-Curt

   From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:22 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for Mexican
children [principally].

If you and your pregnant wife visit Mexico and the child is born there,
Mexico WILL NOT confer Mexican Citizenship to that child. Same for every
other country.

The immigration system is full of strange little twists.. Best friend here
is an immigration atty with 35 yrs of practice.. we often talk of such
things.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to
give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children in
the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.

RB


On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:


Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had
kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no
intention of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So
technically he's an American born abroad like so many children of

active

servicepersons.
-Curt
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
  To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

RB



On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:


It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born
citizen.
Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the

idiots

who questioned Obama's citizenship.
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
  He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan



  On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

wrote:

Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
pirates of the Caribbean.


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes



But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to 
give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children 
in the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.


RB

On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had kittens in the 
oven would you call them biscuits?
He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no intention of becoming 
Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So technically he's an American born 
abroad like so many children of active servicepersons.
-Curt
   From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
  To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?

Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

RB



On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born citizen.
Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres really 
no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots who 
questioned Obama's citizenship.
-Curt

 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
   To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
   Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
 
He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.


Dan




On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates of 
the Caribbean.



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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

The technical question of law which I don't know is: Was Mr. Cruz Sr. an
American Citizen at the time of Mr. Cruz Jr. birth?

My current information says he was still legally a Cuban Citizen and had
not yet become a Naturalized American Citizen, thus not meeting special
Constitutional requirements for his son to hold the office of President..

I accept that my information is less than perfect, please clear that issue
for me.

Thank you,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had
kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no intention
of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So technically he's
an American born abroad like so many children of active servicepersons.
-Curt
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born
citizen.
Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots
who questioned Obama's citizenship.
-Curt

From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan

On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

Hold on! Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
pirates of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for Mexican
children [principally].

If you and your pregnant wife visit Mexico and the child is born there,
Mexico WILL NOT confer Mexican Citizenship to that child. Same for every
other country.

The immigration system is full of strange little twists.. Best friend here
is an immigration atty with 35 yrs of practice.. we often talk of such
things.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


 But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
 If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to
 give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children in
 the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.

 RB


 On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had
 kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
 He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no
 intention of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So
 technically he's an American born abroad like so many children of active
 servicepersons.
 -Curt
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
   To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
   Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
 Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
 Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
 not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
 USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
 American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
 permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

 Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
 my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
 in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

 RB



 On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born
 citizen.
 Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
 really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots
 who questioned Obama's citizenship.
 -Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
  He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

 Dan



  On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:

 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
 pirates of the Caribbean.


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

He specifically said that he was renouncing something he didn't know he had. 
He's never had to be naturalized as an American which means he's native born. 
There are only two choices, native born and naturalized, if you're not one 
you're the other. He's never been naturalized so he must be native born.
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:17 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to 
give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children 
in the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.

RB

On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
 Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had kittens 
 in the oven would you call them biscuits?
 He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no intention of 
 becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So technically he's an 
 American born abroad like so many children of active servicepersons.
 -Curt
        From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
  To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

 Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
 Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
 not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
 USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
 American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
 permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

 Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
 my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
 in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

 RB

 On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
 It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born citizen.
 Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres 
 really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots 
 who questioned Obama's citizenship.
 -Curt

          From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
    To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
    Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
    Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

 He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

 Dan

 On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:

 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates 
 of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Well.. I could quickly agree that Mr. B. Obama Jr. father was unknown if
presented with a verifiable birth certificate that so stated.. Which I have
not.

Again, the Constitution requires very specific Citizenship of the office of
President. Thus the basis of this discussion, which I hope will remain
civil.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Funny little thing.. Mr. B. Obama, while in congress, demanded that Mr. J.
McCain was not eligible to serve as President because of his location of
birth in Panama. After raising a high stink over it, it was determined that
Mr. McCain, born of TWO American citizens, one on duty serving in US
Military, in Panama, did indeed meet the requirements of Constitution as a
Natural Born Citizen.
The settled point of law being, location of birth does not impart
Citizenship to a Citizen born to TWO American Citizens. Rather, Citizenship
of the child carries via Citizenship of Parent Citizens, not their location
at time of birth.

Most curious, in my personal opinion.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Why not? The constitution says Natural born American it doesn't say
born on American soil which would after all exclude John Mcain...
-Curt

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan

On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

Hold on! Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
pirates of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Most of it is so we can tweak other countries no?
I'm thinking specifically of Cuba...
-Curt

  From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:22 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for Mexican
children [principally].

If you and your pregnant wife visit Mexico and the child is born there,
Mexico WILL NOT confer Mexican Citizenship to that child. Same for every
other country.

The immigration system is full of strange little twists.. Best friend here
is an immigration atty with 35 yrs of practice.. we often talk of such
things.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
 If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to
 give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children in
 the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.

 RB

 On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had
 kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
 He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no
 intention of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So
 technically he's an American born abroad like so many children of active
 servicepersons.
 -Curt
        From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
  To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
    Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
 Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
 not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
 USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
 American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
 permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

 Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
 my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
 in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

 RB

 On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born
 citizen.
 Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
 really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots
 who questioned Obama's citizenship.
 -Curt

          From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
    To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
    Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
    Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
      He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

 Dan

  On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:

 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
 pirates of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Fair point, however, when it comes to divining what logic [if any] may be
behind any rule made by Immigration and Naturalization Agency, I'm at a
total loss.


It seems much confusion exists over the term:
 Natural Born Citizen [as required by Constitution to be President]
as opposed to:
 Native Born Citizen
and: Naturalized Citizen
A person may hold ONE of those legal Citizenship status, but not Two.

Case law on those points makes several days of close reading necessary and
I invite anyone who wishes to do that. It seems to me, much of the emotion
and argument we see over this issue is based on lack of details as to those
definitions applied to the current POTUS and the possible contender POTUS.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Most of it is so we can tweak other countries no?
 I'm thinking specifically of Cuba...
 -Curt

   From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:22 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

 Interesting side note of law. USA is the only country that confers
 Citizenship based on LOCATION on American soil at time of birth for Mexican
 children [principally].

 If you and your pregnant wife visit Mexico and the child is born there,
 Mexico WILL NOT confer Mexican Citizenship to that child. Same for every
 other country.

 The immigration system is full of strange little twists.. Best friend here
 is an immigration atty with 35 yrs of practice.. we often talk of such
 things.

 On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 
  But you said there was no way for him to be Canadian.
  If he renounced Canadian citizenship, then one would think he had it to
  give it up, and I assume like Mexicans who like to have their children in
  the USA, if one is born here, one is likely able to claim citizenship.
 
  RB
 
 
  On 26/03/2015 10:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
 
  Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had
  kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
  He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no
  intention of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So
  technically he's an American born abroad like so many children of
 active
  servicepersons.
  -Curt
 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
   To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com
   Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
 Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
  Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
  not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
  USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
  American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
  permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.
 
  Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
  my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
  in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.
 
  RB
 
 
 
  On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
 
  It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born
  citizen.
  Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
  really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the
 idiots
  who questioned Obama's citizenship.
  -Curt
 
   From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
   He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.
 
  Dan
 
 
 
   On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 
  wrote:
 
  Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.
 
  His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
  pirates of the Caribbean.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-26 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes


So sorry, cannot allow that.
Need to tax people on worldwide income like USA so have to keep all 
citizens no matter what.


RB

On 25/03/2015 8:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan


On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates of 
the Caribbean.








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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had kittens in 
the oven would you call them biscuits?
He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no intention of 
becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So technically he's an 
American born abroad like so many children of active servicepersons.
-Curt
  From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do 
not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the 
USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an 
American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a 
permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through 
my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother 
in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

RB

On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
 It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born citizen.
 Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres really 
 no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots who 
 questioned Obama's citizenship.
 -Curt

        From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

 He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

 Dan

 On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.

 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates 
 of the Caribbean.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

His mom needed to have bewen in the US for 10 continuous years for him to
qualify, or something like that.  It's complicatged.

Thankfully (?), he is such an over the top extremist that there is a
less-than-even chance the R party won't nominate him.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Theres a great Maine joke the punchline of which is If your cat had
 kittens in the oven would you call them biscuits?
 He's American because his parents were there temporarily with no intention
 of becoming Canadian citizens or permanent residents. So technically he's
 an American born abroad like so many children of active servicepersons.
 -Curt
   From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
  To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

 Why is there no way for him to be Canadian if he was born in Canada?
 Both of my sons were born here to a mother who is a US citizen but do
 not qualify for dual citizenship via their mother because she left the
 USA before she attained the age of majority even though she is still an
 American citizen and has never obtained dual citizenship. She is a
 permanent resident of Canada but not a Canadian citizen.

 Oddly enough, my sons could apparently apply for US citizenship through
 my wife's parents even though my father in law is deceased and my mother
 in law obtained Canadian citizenship and thus has dual citizenship.

 RB



 On 26/03/2015 8:29 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
  It wouldn't matter, to be president you'd have to be a natural born
 citizen.
  Which he probably is, his mother is American, his dad is Cuban, theres
 really no way for him to be Canadian... Still its fun to pick on the idiots
 who questioned Obama's citizenship.
  -Curt
 
 From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
   To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com
   Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:41 PM
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?
 
  He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.
 
  Dan
 
 
 
  On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.
 
  His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
 pirates of the Caribbean.
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

If we are lucky, we can fix it at the ballot box. If we are not lucky, 
it

will come to the fox hole.


Soap box, ballot box, cartridge box.  Isn't that the usual
progression?

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Anyone who votes for Hillary had better make sure they wouldn't object 
to her running mate becoming president.


Now _there's_ an ironic reversal!  :-)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

If the ship of state were an airliner, it would be off course and 
entering

an uncontrolled decent.


If only our SoS _was_ uncontrolledly decent!  :-)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-25 Thread clay via Mercedes

Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.  

His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates of 
the Caribbean.


On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:45 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

 provide the Native American (pre-European Invader Indigenous Person) content.
 
 Only native Americans are eligible for the office.  Perhaps this
 is referring to Aboriginal Americans?
 
 -- Jim
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-25 Thread clay via Mercedes

It was used to kill a dame who did abortions. They should have used it for
something a bit more interesting

clay

On Mar 24, 2015, at 8:29 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Funny you should mention that.

Some years ago, I built a full size working Guillotine. Lately, I've been
ask if I could go into volume production. My observation is that America
votes with it's wallet first...

It gives cause for wonder, doesn't it..

Interesting historical note, machinery wise. France used the Guillotine for
execution up until the late 1960's... being an avid machinery history buff.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

As George Washington pointed out, we shouldn't have parties because we
can already see what happens when we do.

Hear, Here!

George was right!

Political parties are corrupt.Ds Jefferson and Jackson, and JFK were
true Americans. Rs lincoln, Grant and Reagan were Americans. THe parties
were corrupt even in Jeffersons day.

None of them would recognize their parties now.

What will you do to eliminate political parties?

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-25 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes

He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

Dan

 On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.  
 
 His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from pirates 
 of the Caribbean.
 
 


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-25 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 He renounced his Canuck citizenship a while back.

 Dan

  On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:38 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  Hold on!  Cruz is a Canadian.
 
  His mama was from below the 49th, but his dad was some wetback from
 pirates of the Caribbean.
 
 


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-25 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes

You have the BEST sense of humor.  ROFLMAO!

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 10:39 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 When did anyone in con gress ever read the constitution, with the possible
 exceptions of Cruz, S King and Ernst?


  The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
 office of President are unique to that office.

 It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
 requirements.

 But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
 make.

 On Wed, Mar 25, 2015


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?


The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.


_Running_ for the office.  I think a non-naive-American could end
up _holding_ the office, if he came to it by succession.  Same way
Bill Clinton could end up holding the office again, if H was elected
and he was the running mate, and something happened...

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-25 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes

When did anyone in con gress ever read the constitution, with the 
possible exceptions of Cruz, S King and Ernst?




The Citizenship requirements set forth in Constitution for holding the
office of President are unique to that office.

It appears Mr. Cruz, although a legal citizen, does not meet those unique
requirements.

But, in the words of another possible candidate, What difference does it
make.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes

Yes, any of the R candidates would be better, although I tend to agree with
Randy that neither party has a very impressive field at this point.  Hillary
is just an empty pants suit, with no record of accomplishments other than
negative ones. Hasn't even signed her outgoing government employee form.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 1:52 PM
To: Rich Thomas; Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Who's said anything about Hillary?

You think any of the R candidaes would be better?


On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 It's all pointless, it's Hillary!'s turn so she should just assume the 
 job, we could avoid all the trouble and money spending and annoyances, 
 and have the Smartest Woman in the World as our President, maybe with 
 Michelle Obama as the VP, and in 8 years perhaps Chels and one of the 
 Obama girls could run together, or maybe Lizzie Warren to provide the 
 Native American (pre-European Invader Indigenous Person) content.  Not 
 allowing them to take the job would be genderist and racist.

 Wouldn't that be near-utopia, the completion of the fundamental 
 transformation!  I am almost too giddy to type just thinking about it!

 --R



 On 3/24/15 3:26 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

 There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who can 
 brand himself as the most conservative of the pack.  Cruz is off to 
 a flying start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.

 OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as he is 
 the first to raise $1 BB.

 I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.



 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes  
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  On 24/03/2015 2:08 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

  'Nother pieca BS he can pile on with the rest of it to try pass off 
 on
 somebody.

 Wilton


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

Might outta ease off a little, now; gettin' on into politics; somebody might 
get riled.   ;)


I know what!  I'll throw in another Country Boy Tale!

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?


Theres always a 3rd party candidate, NPR just neglects to talk about 
them.
Seriously, in 2008 Ron Paul (then running as a Republican) was second in 
Nevada, NPR reported on the 1st and 3rd place finishers completely 
skipping him. So many people (including me) called them on it they had to 
release a lame excuse that they didn't do what they clearly had done. I 
lost a lot of respect for them that year.
In 2008 Ralph Nader made a pretty good showing considering he ran as a 3rd 
party contender but mainstream media just skipped over him.

-Curt
  From: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

 Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 5:11 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Who thinks there will be a  third party candidate this time around?


So why do you bother to listen to all the propaganda stations?   (NPB and 
all the BS stations)  Good for you for calling them out, but it is obvious 
that news is the last thing they want to talk about.  It is all propaganda 
and most of that is pro D party, socialist, marxist, communist, 
progressive or what ever term they choose to use this day.


The glaring absence to me is that there is NO REPORTING about how the D 
party now would react to their proclaimed hero and his beliefs and 
policies.   The beliefs and policies that JFK  (not to mention Jefferson 
and Jackson) stood for and implemented are very little different than what 
Ted Cruz stands for.  JFK  as a candidate today would be ridiculed by the 
media the same way they ridicule Ted Cruz.


Think about it.

Secure borders
Standing up to Putin
Tax cuts implemented
Nationalism
Family values
Roman Catholic values of before Vatican II
Belief in the American system
Belief in American People
Support of the Military, and the Navy in particular

This  list goes on, but each one of these things JFK did or believed in 
are now attacked by the D party.




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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Theres always a 3rd party candidate, NPR just neglects to talk about them.
Seriously, in 2008 Ron Paul (then running as a Republican) was
second in Nevada, NPR reported on the 1st and 3rd place finishers
completely skipping him. So many people (including me) called them
on it they had to release a lame excuse that they didn't do what
they clearly had done. I lost a lot of respect for them that year.
In 2008 Ralph Nader made a pretty good showing considering he ran as
a 3rd party contender but mainstream media just skipped over him.

-Curt
From: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List
mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

Who thinks there will be a third party candidate this time around?

So why do you bother to listen to all the propaganda stations? (NPB
and all the BS stations) Good for you for calling them out, but it
is obvious that news is the last thing they want to talk about. It
is all propaganda and most of that is pro D party, socialist,
marxist, communist, progressive or what ever term they choose to use
this day.

The glaring absence to me is that there is NO REPORTING about how the
D party now would react to their proclaimed hero and his beliefs and
policies. The beliefs and policies that JFK (not to mention
Jefferson and Jackson) stood for and implemented are very little
different than what Ted Cruz stands for. JFK as a candidate today
would be ridiculed by the media the same way they ridicule Ted Cruz.

Think about it.

Secure borders
Standing up to Putin
Tax cuts implemented
Nationalism
Family values
Roman Catholic values of before Vatican II
Belief in the American system
Belief in American People
Support of the Military, and the Navy in particular

This list goes on, but each one of these things JFK did or believed
in are now attacked by the D party.

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?


Who thinks there will be a  third party candidate this time around?


Get Jokin Joe (Biteme) to run as the 3rd party.  He'd probably get 
more votes than  the queen of arKansas!


He could run as a 1901 Progressive!

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

Somewhere, in the last 239 years, we as a country shifted from being a
Constitutional Republic to acting like a Democracy.

The best description of a Democracy I've heard is: Two wolves and One sheep
voting on what to eat for dinner.

The best description of a Republic I've heard is: One well armed sheep
inviting the Two wolves to eat all the grass they want for dinner.

If we are lucky, we can fix it at the ballot box. If we are not lucky, it
will come to the fox hole.

If the ship of state were an airliner, it would be off course and entering
an uncontrolled decent. Immediate corrective action would be required, if
we wanted to live.

Respectfully,

Grant...

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 7:43 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

As George Washington pointed out, we shouldn't have parties because we
can already see what happens when we do.

Curly McLain wrote:

Who thinks there will be a third party candidate this time around?

Get Jokin Joe (Biteme) to run as the 3rd party. He'd probably get
more votes than the queen of arKansas!

He could run as a 1901 Progressive!

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread archer75--- via Mercedes

 As George Washington pointed out, we shouldn't have parties because we can 
already see what happens when we do.

People tend to divide themselves based on the parties, rather than based on the 
issues. Many aren't actually listening to what is being said, they are too busy 
trying to push everyone into a particular little square on the ballot.

We can't get anywhere because people (including the politicians themselves) are 
too busy naming the other side as their enemy to actually get things done. 
They're playing politics like it's a game, one that they have to win, and not 
actually thinking about the reality or consequences of their actions.
Gerry
.. 

Curly McLain wrote:

 Who thinks there will be a  third party candidate this time around?
 
 Get Jokin Joe (Biteme) to run as the 3rd party.  He'd probably get 
 more votes than  the queen of arKansas!
 
 He could run as a 1901 Progressive!
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

Funny you should mention that.

Some years ago, I built a full size working Guillotine. Lately, I've been
ask if I could go into volume production. My observation is that America
votes with it's wallet first...

It gives cause for wonder, doesn't it..

Interesting historical note, machinery wise. France used the Guillotine for
execution up until the late 1960's... being an avid machinery history buff.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

As George Washington pointed out, we shouldn't have parties because we
can already see what happens when we do.

Hear, Here!

George was right!

Political parties are corrupt.Ds Jefferson and Jackson, and JFK were
true Americans. Rs lincoln, Grant and Reagan were Americans. THe parties
were corrupt even in Jeffersons day.

None of them would recognize their parties now.

What will you do to eliminate political parties?

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

provide the Native American (pre-European Invader Indigenous Person) 
content.


Only native Americans are eligible for the office.  Perhaps this
is referring to Aboriginal Americans?

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

 As George Washington pointed out, we shouldn't have parties because 
we can already see what happens when we do.


People tend to divide themselves based on the parties, rather than 
based on the issues. Many aren't actually listening to what is being 
said, they are too busy trying to push everyone into a particular 
little square on the ballot.


We can't get anywhere because people (including the politicians 
themselves) are too busy naming the other side as their enemy to 
actually get things done. They're playing politics like it's a game, 
one that they have to win, and not actually thinking about the 
reality or consequences of their actions.

Gerry

\

Hear, Here!

George was right!

Political parties are corrupt.Ds Jefferson and Jackson, and JFK 
were true Americans.  Rs lincoln, Grant and Reagan were Americans. 
THe parties were corrupt even in Jeffersons day.


None of them would recognize their parties now.

What will you do to eliminate political parties?

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread archer75--- via Mercedes

Anyone who votes for Hillary had better make sure they wouldn't object to her 
running mate becoming president. She has had a small stroke and she does not 
appear to be in the best of health. The pressures of the presidency could do 
her under.
Gerry

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Who's said anything about Hillary?
 
 You think any of the R candidaes would be better?
 
 
 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  It's all pointless, it's Hillary!'s turn so she should just assume the
  job, we could avoid all the trouble and money spending and annoyances, and
  have the Smartest Woman in the World as our President, maybe with Michelle
  Obama as the VP, and in 8 years perhaps Chels and one of the Obama girls
  could run together, or maybe Lizzie Warren to provide the Native American
  (pre-European Invader Indigenous Person) content.  Not allowing them to
  take the job would be genderist and racist.
 
  Wouldn't that be near-utopia, the completion of the fundamental
  transformation!  I am almost too giddy to type just thinking about it!
 
  --R
 
 
 
  On 3/24/15 3:26 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
 
  There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who can brand
  himself as the most conservative of the pack.  Cruz is off to a flying
  start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.
 
  OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as he is the
  first to raise $1 BB.
 
  I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.
 
 
 
  On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
   On 24/03/2015 2:08 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:
 
   'Nother pieca BS he can pile on with the rest of it to try pass off on
  somebody.
 
  Wilton
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

The Republican potential candidates have a new category this time around.
Several of them are Undocumented Democrat.

Hillary is taking some reality hits lately from her actions. It seems
unlikely she will have the political traction she once had with hard core
progressives and Democratic voters. Based on the latest actions by
Congress, she may be voted in by a jury of 12 rather than a political
election.

I sure picked a strange time to grow old in. Seems the whole hope and
change was a typo for the teleprompter... the real text read hype and
chains apparently..

On a positive note... my old Mercedes just keeps working as designed...
they don't lie to me, the work when I want them to, and if they don't I can
fix them..
Now I return you to your daily oil thread.. ;

Grant...

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who can brand
himself as the most conservative of the pack. Cruz is off to a flying
start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.

OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as he is the
first to raise $1 BB.

I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

On 24/03/2015 2:08 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

'Nother pieca BS he can pile on with the rest of it to try pass off on
somebody.

Wilton

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes

There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who can brand
himself as the most conservative of the pack.  Cruz is off to a flying
start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.

OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as he is the
first to raise $1 BB.

I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.



On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 On 24/03/2015 2:08 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

 'Nother pieca BS he can pile on with the rest of it to try pass off on
 somebody.

 Wilton



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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

It's all pointless, it's Hillary!'s turn so she should just assume the 
job, we could avoid all the trouble and money spending and annoyances, 
and have the Smartest Woman in the World as our President, maybe with 
Michelle Obama as the VP, and in 8 years perhaps Chels and one of the 
Obama girls could run together, or maybe Lizzie Warren to provide the 
Native American (pre-European Invader Indigenous Person) content.  Not 
allowing them to take the job would be genderist and racist.


Wouldn't that be near-utopia, the completion of the fundamental 
transformation!  I am almost too giddy to type just thinking about it!


--R



On 3/24/15 3:26 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who can brand
himself as the most conservative of the pack.  Cruz is off to a flying
start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.

OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as he is the
first to raise $1 BB.

I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.



On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


On 24/03/2015 2:08 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:


'Nother pieca BS he can pile on with the rest of it to try pass off on
somebody.

Wilton



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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes

Who's said anything about Hillary?

You think any of the R candidaes would be better?


On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 It's all pointless, it's Hillary!'s turn so she should just assume the
 job, we could avoid all the trouble and money spending and annoyances, and
 have the Smartest Woman in the World as our President, maybe with Michelle
 Obama as the VP, and in 8 years perhaps Chels and one of the Obama girls
 could run together, or maybe Lizzie Warren to provide the Native American
 (pre-European Invader Indigenous Person) content.  Not allowing them to
 take the job would be genderist and racist.

 Wouldn't that be near-utopia, the completion of the fundamental
 transformation!  I am almost too giddy to type just thinking about it!

 --R



 On 3/24/15 3:26 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

 There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who can brand
 himself as the most conservative of the pack.  Cruz is off to a flying
 start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.

 OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as he is the
 first to raise $1 BB.

 I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.



 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  On 24/03/2015 2:08 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

  'Nother pieca BS he can pile on with the rest of it to try pass off on
 somebody.

 Wilton


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes

http://fusion.net/story/108086/yik-yak-liberty-university-and-the-end-of-cultural-monoliths/

Enjoy.

Dan



 On Mar 24, 2015, at 4:51 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Who's said anything about Hillary?
 
 You think any of the R candidaes would be better?
 
 
 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 It's all pointless, it's Hillary!'s turn so she should just assume the
 job, we could avoid all the trouble and money spending and annoyances, and
 have the Smartest Woman in the World as our President, maybe with Michelle
 Obama as the VP, and in 8 years perhaps Chels and one of the Obama girls
 could run together, or maybe Lizzie Warren to provide the Native American
 (pre-European Invader Indigenous Person) content.  Not allowing them to
 take the job would be genderist and racist.
 
 Wouldn't that be near-utopia, the completion of the fundamental
 transformation!  I am almost too giddy to type just thinking about it!
 
 --R
 
 
 
 On 3/24/15 3:26 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
 
 There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who can brand
 himself as the most conservative of the pack.  Cruz is off to a flying
 start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.
 
 OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as he is the
 first to raise $1 BB.
 
 I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.
 
 
 
 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 On 24/03/2015 2:08 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:
 
 'Nother pieca BS he can pile on with the rest of it to try pass off on
 somebody.
 
 Wilton
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

Nothing needs be said about Hillary!  It's her turn, we all know that, 
she should be president by acclimation or executive order or everyone 
should just accede.  Rs and any other Ds are irrelevant.


What difference, at this point, does it make?

--R


On 3/24/15 4:51 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Who's said anything about Hillary?
You think any of the R candidaes would be better?

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


It's all pointless, it's Hillary!'s turn so she should just assume
the job, we could avoid all the trouble and money spending and
annoyances, and have the Smartest Woman in the World as our
President, maybe with Michelle Obama as the VP, and in 8 years
perhaps Chels and one of the Obama girls could run together, or
maybe Lizzie Warren to provide the Native American (pre-European
Invader Indigenous Person) content. Not allowing them to take the
job would be genderist and racist.

Wouldn't that be near-utopia, the completion of the fundamental
transformation!  I am almost too giddy to type just thinking about it!

--R



On 3/24/15 3:26 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who
can brand
himself as the most conservative of the pack.  Cruz is off
to a flying
start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.

OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as
he is the
first to raise $1 BB.

I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.



On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

On 24/03/2015 2:08 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

'Nother pieca BS he can pile on with the rest of it to
try pass off on
somebody.

Wilton


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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

2015-03-24 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

Ya see?!  Even them fereners can see through all the BS!  ;)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Curly McLain 126die...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?

On 24/03/2015 3:04 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

There appears to be race among the R non-candidates to see who can brand
himself as the most conservative of the pack.  Cruz is off to a flying
start with his call to abolish EPA, the IRS, and non-Christians.

OTOH, Jeb doesn't seem to care one way or the other so long as he is the
first to raise $1 BB.

I need to order some popcorn before the price skyrockets.

Why don't you start selling no bush bumper stickers? You know, BUSH with 
the ø symbol through it. (Vølvø content)

I'd buy one!  G was ok, but should finished the job with Hussy.
GW was ok.  But jeb is no different than the current VEEP, only not as 
funny

From the peanut gallery, I think a walker/cruz combo would win. It would 
get a lot of the population interested if ANYONE would pay attention to 
what real Americans want.

I think Biteme would peat pillary in a landslide.

___

I don't follow politics closely enough to know enough to make a
meaningful comment but I have to say, I do not see anyone out there that
I would bother to walk accross the street to vote for.
What a god awful time in US politics.

RB

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Re: [MBZ] Ted Cruz?