[MBZ] OT - Speeding Up Time Machine Backups,

[Mike Esh via Mercedes]

I am interested and do not know very much about how to work on a computer so I would need detailed instruction. 



I am using the newer Airport Time Capsule that is also a Wifi station.  My wife 
has about 1.5 terabytes of pictures we have backed up using an Ethernet cable 
and it took about 72 hours.  Do you think it would do this type of thing a 
little faster?





Thanks

Mike










Michael E. Esh
m...@barr.com
michael...@mac.com
(C) 231.894.5505


On Dec 14, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:






If there are any Mac users out there using Time Machine for their backups, I 
came across a nice (safe) file system hack that increases the band file size in 
the Time Machine’s sparsebundle.

The default size of the band files is around 8Mb, meaning that an 800Mb backup 
will create around 100 band files. That means my 500Gb Time Machine backup 
approaches hundreds of thousands of band files.

By increasing the band files size Time Machine doesn’t have to open these 
massive numbers of files when backing up or restoring. This is especially 
difficult if you’re backing up over a network share.

I can elaborate privately for anyone who is interested. It’s a fairly simple 
change done in Terminal.

Dan
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[MBZ] OT - Speeding Up Time Machine Backups

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

If there are any Mac users out there using Time Machine for their backups, I 
came across a nice (safe) file system hack that increases the band file size in 
the Time Machine’s sparsebundle.

The default size of the band files is around 8Mb, meaning that an 800Mb backup 
will create around 100 band files.  That means my 500Gb Time Machine backup 
approaches hundreds of thousands of band files.

By increasing the band files size Time Machine doesn’t have to open these 
massive numbers of files when backing up or restoring.  This is especially 
difficult if you’re backing up over a network share.

I can elaborate privately for anyone who is interested.  It’s a fairly simple 
change done in Terminal.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Larry T]

I actually saw hands hanging in the town square when I worked in Saudi 
Arabia. They evidently believed in advertising their punishments. A 
gruesome and often effective persuasion method.  Of course, the fact 
that there were multiple hands shows not everyone was as impressed as I 
was ...;-)


A nose - now that might get their attention!

LarryT

On 5/6/2013 12:07 AM, Dieselhead wrote:

Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose s_ law???

However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame???


On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

 Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) 
There is

 historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves.




--
OK Don
2013 F150
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1957 C182A


Nope.  I believe the practice far predates the profet.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Andrew Strasfogel]

You project an admiration for the Saudi approach to justice.  Does this
tempt you to to move to Riyadh?  Perhaps you could consult and perusade
them to sever/display noses or other parts of the human anatomy in a never
ending quest to deter crime...

On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:

 I actually saw hands hanging in the town square when I worked in Saudi
 Arabia. They evidently believed in advertising their punishments. A
 gruesome and often effective persuasion method.  Of course, the fact that
 there were multiple hands shows not everyone was as impressed as I was ...
;-)

 A nose - now that might get their attention!

 LarryT

 On 5/6/2013 12:07 AM, Dieselhead wrote:

 Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose s_ law???

 However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame???


 On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

  Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There
 is
  historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves.



 --
 OK Don
 2013 F150
 2012 Passat TDI DSG
 1957 C182A


 Nope.  I believe the practice far predates the profet.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Brian Toscano]

Tax laws are made by Congress.  Some point to consider are that flat tax
rates such as sales taxes are regressive and hurt the poor.  Taxes that
make everyone pay the same overall percentage of income are preferred but
tricky.

For example, the per gallon gas tax is the same for someone living on
minimum wage as they are for a rich person.  Therefore the percentage of
income is higher for the minimum wage worker.

Also higher income earners often pay less as a percentage than the middle
class.

Does Mitt Romney contribute 6% of his wages to the social security fund?




On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote:

 You project an admiration for the Saudi approach to justice.  Does this
 tempt you to to move to Riyadh?  Perhaps you could consult and perusade
 them to sever/display noses or other parts of the human anatomy in a never
 ending quest to deter crime...

 On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:

  I actually saw hands hanging in the town square when I worked in Saudi
  Arabia. They evidently believed in advertising their punishments. A
  gruesome and often effective persuasion method.  Of course, the fact that
  there were multiple hands shows not everyone was as impressed as I was
 ...
 ;-)
 
  A nose - now that might get their attention!
 
  LarryT
 
  On 5/6/2013 12:07 AM, Dieselhead wrote:
 
  Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose s_ law???
 
  However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame???
 
 
  On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There
  is
   historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves.
 
 
 
  --
  OK Don
  2013 F150
  2012 Passat TDI DSG
  1957 C182A
 
 
  Nope.  I believe the practice far predates the profet.
 
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  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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 http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Scott Ritchey]

Two points on this.  (1) The rich will always get around the tax codes,
because they can.  (2) From each according to his ability hasn't worked
well in practice.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Larry T
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 6:12 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

IMO the progressive tax code should be illegal.   Just because someone 
is wealthy is no reason to tax them at a higher rate. Actually the tax 
codes as sold to the public just before 1916  was said to only apply 
to the very wealthy.  You can see how long that lasted. It's always 
easier to point to the rich guys (who are always fewer in number than 
the masses) and convince those with less finances how evil the wealthy 
are for no other reason than they have more money.   Tax rates and 
ticket costs should be the same for everyone.   Just because the 
socialist in Europe are doing it doesn't mean it's right.

Just because the wealthy have more money doesn't mean they should spend 
more on the government and all the stupid things they like to spend our 
taxes on.  The government does so many things they have no business 
doing it's no wonder we're trillions in debt. Things like peanut 
allotments which do nothing but keep prices high, cotton and diary 
products get the same treatment.  The govt is tossing suply and demand 
in order to manage production.  And in return those industries 
donate huge dollars to get the people elected who will continue these 
and other practices.

Back to progressive laws that punish the wealthy more than others.
There is no reason to tax the rich at higher rates than everyone else.   
So there :-P

LarryT

On 5/3/2013 8:51 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
 What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
 understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
 Constitutional protections as the poor?


 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
 progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
 to
 pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Randy Bennell]

On 05/05/2013 7:15 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
It's called a value added tax, or VAT. Common in the EU and other 
places.


Dan


NO!  A VAT is insidious.  VAT is added every time a raw material, part 
or component is handled.  A flat tax on income is direct and 
understandable.  A tax on retail sales is also direct and understandable.


VAT greatly favors vertically integrated companies., as they start 
with raw ingredients and if they sell directly at retail, there are 
only two VATs on the finished product, on raw materials, and again on 
the retail sale.  Take an auto for example.  Many tiers of suppliers, 
each with several levels of VAT.  The VAT becomes a MAJOR component of 
the retail price.


VAT sucks bigtime.  It is a big reason why you don't buy a lot of 
products from UK and former crown colonies, who nearly all have VAT 
taxes, driving up prices.  Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious 
prices for parts?




We have GST - goods and services tax in Canada on the federal level.
Most provinces (or maybe all of them) also have PST or RSt - retail 
sales tax.
In some provinces we also ahve HST which is harmonized tax - a combined 
GST and provincial sales tax. Supposed to be cheaper to administer but 
what it has done is to widen the scope of things that get taxed.
To the credit of our Conservative federal government - the GST has been 
lowered twice in recent years from 7% to 6% and now 5% which is a good 
thing in my mind. Unfortunately, our provincial socialist government is 
picking up the slack by raising our PST from 7% to 8%. It is necessary I 
suppose because they keep increasing the size of the government. They 
keep hiring more spin doctors to tell us that everything is great.
Pretty soon we will all work for the government and they can change 
socialist to communist.
I hope the bas*ards are booted out on their backsides when  the next 
election comes around.


Randy who did not vote for this bunch last time

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[WILTON]

Randy, you're sounding very American.  Welcome aboard.   ;)

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue



On 05/05/2013 7:15 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
It's called a value added tax, or VAT. Common in the EU and other 
places.


Dan


NO!  A VAT is insidious.  VAT is added every time a raw material, part or 
component is handled.  A flat tax on income is direct and understandable. 
A tax on retail sales is also direct and understandable.


VAT greatly favors vertically integrated companies., as they start with 
raw ingredients and if they sell directly at retail, there are only two 
VATs on the finished product, on raw materials, and again on the retail 
sale.  Take an auto for example.  Many tiers of suppliers, each with 
several levels of VAT.  The VAT becomes a MAJOR component of the retail 
price.


VAT sucks bigtime.  It is a big reason why you don't buy a lot of 
products from UK and former crown colonies, who nearly all have VAT 
taxes, driving up prices.  Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious 
prices for parts?




We have GST - goods and services tax in Canada on the federal level.
Most provinces (or maybe all of them) also have PST or RSt - retail sales 
tax.
In some provinces we also ahve HST which is harmonized tax - a combined 
GST and provincial sales tax. Supposed to be cheaper to administer but 
what it has done is to widen the scope of things that get taxed.
To the credit of our Conservative federal government - the GST has been 
lowered twice in recent years from 7% to 6% and now 5% which is a good 
thing in my mind. Unfortunately, our provincial socialist government is 
picking up the slack by raising our PST from 7% to 8%. It is necessary I 
suppose because they keep increasing the size of the government. They keep 
hiring more spin doctors to tell us that everything is great.
Pretty soon we will all work for the government and they can change 
socialist to communist.
I hope the bas*ards are booted out on their backsides when  the next 
election comes around.


Randy who did not vote for this bunch last time

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Larry T]

IMO the progressive tax code should be illegal.   Just because someone 
is wealthy is no reason to tax them at a higher rate. Actually the tax 
codes as sold to the public just before 1916  was said to only apply 
to the very wealthy.  You can see how long that lasted. It's always 
easier to point to the rich guys (who are always fewer in number than 
the masses) and convince those with less finances how evil the wealthy 
are for no other reason than they have more money.   Tax rates and 
ticket costs should be the same for everyone.   Just because the 
socialist in Europe are doing it doesn't mean it's right.


Just because the wealthy have more money doesn't mean they should spend 
more on the government and all the stupid things they like to spend our 
taxes on.  The government does so many things they have no business 
doing it's no wonder we're trillions in debt. Things like peanut 
allotments which do nothing but keep prices high, cotton and diary 
products get the same treatment.  The govt is tossing suply and demand 
in order to manage production.  And in return those industries 
donate huge dollars to get the people elected who will continue these 
and other practices.


Back to progressive laws that punish the wealthy more than others.
There is no reason to tax the rich at higher rates than everyone else.   
So there :-P


LarryT

On 5/3/2013 8:51 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
Constitutional protections as the poor?


Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:


Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Craig]

On Sun, 05 May 2013 18:12:02 -0400 Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:

 Just because the wealthy have more money doesn't mean they should spend 
 more on the government and all the stupid things they like to spend our 
 taxes on.

With the same tax rate for all, the wealthy WILL spend more money on the
government, because they make more money. That should be a, Duh!, but
with the class warfare the elite seek to incite, it seems to be forgotten
easily.


Craig

P.S. That also assumes reasonable tax codes without loopholes. A flat tax
 with a credit for low income folks seems best. Or maybe even return
 to the original way of funding, excise taxes.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Larry T]

Yep. I'm all for a national sales tax but only *_IF _*the 16th amendment 
is repealed.  If not, sure as i love my MB, we'd soon be taxed both with 
a sales and income tax.   I can hear it now, We need to do it for the 
children.   or just as likely We need to pass this bill to find out 
what's in it.  Give me a break. puulease.


one more thing on taxes and I'll stop - Everyone uses the 
infrastructure.  Everyone enjoys the protection of the military. with 
those 2 things in mind, everyone should share in the expense - which I 
believe a National Sales Tax or Flat tax would do - no deductions, etc.  
While the real estate PAC's (as well as others) will wring their hands 
and say people will no longer be able to afford homes, but imo the pacs 
would better use their time to educate prospective buyers by telling 
them they'll be paying less overall taxes so they'll be better to afford 
higher payments. Along with repealing the 16th Amendment, the states 
should follow suit and repeal all taxes except for a statewide sales tax 
- no more Personal Property tax, real estate tax, auto tax, gas tax, 
tolls, etc. -- there are so many embedded taxes we cannot possible keep 
them all straight. The tax situation in this country (and others too 
I am sure) is so muddled as to be completely impossible to decipher.



LarryT

LarryT
On 5/5/2013 6:43 PM, Craig wrote:

On Sun, 05 May 2013 18:12:02 -0400 Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:


Just because the wealthy have more money doesn't mean they should spend
more on the government and all the stupid things they like to spend our
taxes on.

With the same tax rate for all, the wealthy WILL spend more money on the
government, because they make more money. That should be a, Duh!, but
with the class warfare the elite seek to incite, it seems to be forgotten
easily.


Craig

P.S. That also assumes reasonable tax codes without loopholes. A flat tax
  with a credit for low income folks seems best. Or maybe even return
  to the original way of funding, excise taxes.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Dan Penoff]

It's called a value added tax, or VAT.  Common in the EU and other places.

Dan

On May 5, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Larry T wrote:

 Yep. I'm all for a national sales tax but only *_IF _*the 16th amendment is 
 repealed.  If not, sure as i love my MB, we'd soon be taxed both with a sales 
 and income tax.   I can hear it now, We need to do it for the children.   
 or just as likely We need to pass this bill to find out what's in it.  Give 
 me a break. puulease.
 
 one more thing on taxes and I'll stop - Everyone uses the infrastructure.  
 Everyone enjoys the protection of the military. with those 2 things in mind, 
 everyone should share in the expense - which I believe a National Sales Tax 
 or Flat tax would do - no deductions, etc.  While the real estate PAC's (as 
 well as others) will wring their hands and say people will no longer be able 
 to afford homes, but imo the pacs would better use their time to educate 
 prospective buyers by telling them they'll be paying less overall taxes so 
 they'll be better to afford higher payments. Along with repealing the 16th 
 Amendment, the states should follow suit and repeal all taxes except for a 
 statewide sales tax - no more Personal Property tax, real estate tax, auto 
 tax, gas tax, tolls, etc. -- there are so many embedded taxes we cannot 
 possible keep them all straight. The tax situation in this country (and 
 others too I am sure) is so muddled as to be completely impossible to 
 decipher.
 
 
 LarryT
 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Dieselhead]

  The tax situation in this country (and others too I am sure) is so 
muddled as to be completely impossible to decipher.



LarryT


THAT IS NO ACCIDENT.   IT IS BY INTENT.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Dieselhead]

It's called a value added tax, or VAT.  Common in the EU and other places.

Dan


NO!  A VAT is insidious.  VAT is added every time a raw material, 
part or component is handled.  A flat tax on income is direct and 
understandable.  A tax on retail sales is also direct and 
understandable.


VAT greatly favors vertically integrated companies., as they start 
with raw ingredients and if they sell directly at retail, there are 
only two VATs on the finished product, on raw materials, and again on 
the retail sale.  Take an auto for example.  Many tiers of suppliers, 
each with several levels of VAT.  The VAT becomes a MAJOR component 
of the retail price.


VAT sucks bigtime.  It is a big reason why you don't buy a lot of 
products from UK and former crown colonies, who nearly all have VAT 
taxes, driving up prices.  Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious 
prices for parts?


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue raising

[Hendrik and fay]

It's called a GST here, which stands for Grab Take Snatch.
It's not the only reason why parts are more expensive here, the reason 
is volume, shipping costs and competition.


Hendrik
who is a collector of GST and needs to do his 1/4ly BAS

On 06/05/13 09:45, Dieselhead wrote:
It's called a value added tax, or VAT. Common in the EU and other 
places.


Dan


NO!  A VAT is insidious.  VAT is added every time a raw material, part 
or component is handled.  A flat tax on income is direct and 
understandable.  A tax on retail sales is also direct and understandable.


VAT greatly favors vertically integrated companies., as they start 
with raw ingredients and if they sell directly at retail, there are 
only two VATs on the finished product, on raw materials, and again on 
the retail sale.  Take an auto for example.  Many tiers of suppliers, 
each with several levels of VAT.  The VAT becomes a MAJOR component of 
the retail price.


VAT sucks bigtime.  It is a big reason why you don't buy a lot of 
products from UK and former crown colonies, who nearly all have VAT 
taxes, driving up prices.  Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious 
prices for parts?






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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Larry T]

a BIG part I suspect!  the only thing worse than the USA's 60,000 page 
(or whatever) tax code is europe's VAT!   Value Added my butt!  the only 
perceived value is the govt's taking the peasants money! and its all in 
favor of the govt. -- dieselhead described it perfectly!


the govt is salivating over the prospect of being able to tax internet 
sales!  they were slowed recently but its a temporary bump in the road 
for them...  they'll get their nose under the tent, then steal the 
freakin' tent!   you can quote me ;-)


LarryT


On 5/5/2013 8:15 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious prices for parts? 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Dieselhead]

a BIG part I suspect!  the only thing worse than the USA's 60,000 
page (or whatever) tax code is europe's VAT!   Value Added my butt! 
the only perceived value is the govt's taking the peasants money! 
and its all in favor of the govt. -- dieselhead described it 
perfectly!


the govt is salivating over the prospect of being able to tax 
internet sales!  they were slowed recently but its a temporary bump 
in the road for them...  they'll get their nose under the tent, then 
steal the freakin' tent!   you can quote me ;-)


LarryT


Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) 
There is historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[OK Don]

Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose Shariah law???

However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame???


On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

 Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There is
 historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves.



-- 
OK Don
2013 F150
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1957 C182A
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Dieselhead]

Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose s_ law???

However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame???


On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:


 Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There is
 historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves.




--
OK Don
2013 F150
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1957 C182A


Nope.  I believe the practice far predates the profet.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[dseretakis]

Good for you!

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2013, at 2:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 We the People in Arizona forced the speed cameras to be removed. Rampant
 fraud was part of the reason. The other part was the loss of Constitutional
 Right to face our accuser.
 
 Vote early Vote often.. it can work.
 
 
 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:
 
 Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt.  Interstate
 speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85.  Imagine the
 revenue they could generate.
 
 Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
 '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)
 
 On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 
 Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
 a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
 hidden tax.
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[dseretakis]

No. That sounds like communism.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2013, at 2:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
 progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to
 pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.
 
 
 
 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:
 
 Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt.  Interstate
 speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85.  Imagine the
 revenue they could generate.
 
 Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
 '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)
 
 On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 
 Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
 a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
 hidden tax.
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Curt Raymond]

Perhaps too many people have read the stories of Robin Hood and don't realize 
that those stories are probably well twisted by the passage of time.

Of course lots of people go up to actors and treat them like the characters 
they portray.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 18:21:36 -0400
From: Max meadedil...@bellsouth.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Message-ID: 98925d16-0f5d-474e-bbda-f89810f5e...@email.android.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

No.  Those of us outside the beltway and who have been taught critical thinking 
call that income redistribution aka stealing.  Done in the name of government 
doesn't change the morality of it.

Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston, SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Mitch Haley]

dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:

No. That sounds like communism.



It sounds like the lie used to sell Communism to the masses.

The more power government has, the more it will be used by those wielding the 
power to enrich those wielding the power.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Scott Ritchey]

... but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination,
perseverance, persistence, and tenacity

I would say that you received an outstanding inheritance.  Sway better than
things.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 11:15 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both 
side and ends.  During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for 
heating the curing barns.  I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting 
to spend nights at the barn with Daddy.  A few times, I'd go to sleep at the

barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had gone 
to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house.  Everybody, Mom,

Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby.  I was lucky to 
have such a caring and loving family.  We never had much money or material 
things, but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, 
perseverance, persistence, and tenacity

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue



 In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides.  I still have 
 a
 tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot
 wide door) to hold yard equipment.  When this old tobacco farm was active 
 it
 was just as you describe.  I still have one slide that seems to be made 
 from
 2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading.  Also, the
 curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the 
 process.

 -Original Message-
 From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
 Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

 Relative measure of wealth reminds me:  When I was a boy on tobacco farms 
 in

 Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - 
 the
 little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to
 the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would
 loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging
 the leaves into the barns.  Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6
 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners.  Rich farmers had wheels on
 their store-bought, factory-built trucks.

 Wilton

 - Original Message - 
 From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com
 To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue



 What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
 understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
 Constitutional protections as the poor?


 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.

 -- 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[WILTON]

Yep.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue




... but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination,
perseverance, persistence, and tenacity

I would say that you received an outstanding inheritance.  Sway better 
than

things.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 11:15 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both
side and ends.  During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for
heating the curing barns.  I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting
to spend nights at the barn with Daddy.  A few times, I'd go to sleep at 
the


barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had 
gone
to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house.  Everybody, 
Mom,


Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby.  I was lucky 
to

have such a caring and loving family.  We never had much money or material
things, but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination,
perseverance, persistence, and tenacity

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue




In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides.  I still have
a
tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot
wide door) to hold yard equipment.  When this old tobacco farm was active
it
was just as you describe.  I still have one slide that seems to be made
from
2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading.  Also, the
curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the
process.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

Relative measure of wealth reminds me:  When I was a boy on tobacco farms
in

Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks -
the
little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields 
to

the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would
loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging
the leaves into the barns.  Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6
(sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners.  Rich farmers had wheels on
their store-bought, factory-built trucks.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue




What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
Constitutional protections as the poor?


Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:


Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.


--



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding

[Randy Bennell]

Just think of it as a speed tax.
If you want to go fast, you have to pay.
That was standard terminology at the old speed shops.
How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do.

Randy

On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
Nope.  Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies.  In the US 
of A, we have the right to face our accuser.  Some camera company 
inGermany is not an accuser in the eyes of the court.


Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice.  They lie with 
studies about safety.  They claim its fer da cilluns.  It really is 
all about extorting money from the populace.




I see the speeders as perps, not victims.

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:


 Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a 
victim.



 



 





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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding

[Andrew Strasfogel]

I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

 Just think of it as a speed tax.
 If you want to go fast, you have to pay.
 That was standard terminology at the old speed shops.
 How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do.

 Randy

 On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

 Nope.  Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies.  In the US of
 A, we have the right to face our accuser.  Some camera company inGermany is
 not an accuser in the eyes of the court.

 Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice.  They lie with studies
 about safety.  They claim its fer da cilluns.  It really is all about
 extorting money from the populace.


 I see the speeders as perps, not victims.

 On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:


  Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a
 victim.

  


  




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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding

[Randy Bennell]

Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all.

Randy


On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:


Just think of it as a speed tax.
If you want to go fast, you have to pay.
That was standard terminology at the old speed shops.
How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do.

Randy

On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote:


Nope.  Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies.  In the US of
A, we have the right to face our accuser.  Some camera company inGermany is
not an accuser in the eyes of the court.

Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice.  They lie with studies
about safety.  They claim its fer da cilluns.  It really is all about
extorting money from the populace.


I see the speeders as perps, not victims.

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:


  Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a

victim.

  
  







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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
hidden tax.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

 Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all.

 Randy


 On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes.

 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
 wrote:

 Just think of it as a speed tax.
 If you want to go fast, you have to pay.
 That was standard terminology at the old speed shops.
 How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do.

 Randy

 On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

 Nope.  Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies.  In the US of
 A, we have the right to face our accuser.  Some camera company
 inGermany is
 not an accuser in the eyes of the court.

 Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice.  They lie with studies
 about safety.  They claim its fer da cilluns.  It really is all about
 extorting money from the populace.


 I see the speeders as perps, not victims.

 On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
 wrote:


   Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a

 victim.

   
   





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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Benz Hogs]

Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt.  Interstate 
speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85.  Imagine the 
revenue they could generate.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)

On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
hidden tax.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.



On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:

 Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt.  Interstate
 speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85.  Imagine the
 revenue they could generate.

 Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
 '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)

 On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
 a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
 hidden tax.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[G Mann]

We the People in Arizona forced the speed cameras to be removed. Rampant
fraud was part of the reason. The other part was the loss of Constitutional
Right to face our accuser.

Vote early Vote often.. it can work.


On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:

 Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt.  Interstate
 speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85.  Imagine the
 revenue they could generate.

 Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
 '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)

 On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
 a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
 hidden tax.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Benz Hogs]

Why not enforce the laws that are already on the books instead of 
wasting time making new ones?


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)

On 5/3/2013 1:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.




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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Maybe there is a need to change?  Maybe the old laws have outlived their
relevance or usefulness.  Maybe there is a new problem that needs to be
addressed.  Lots of reasons.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:

 Why not enforce the laws that are already on the books instead of wasting
 time making new ones?

 Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
 '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)

 On 5/3/2013 1:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
 progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to
 pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding

[Randy Bennell]

It is not a hidden tax as we all know we can be caught if we drive 
faster than the posted limits.


It is not a certain tax. Most of the time we get away with it.

Sometimes we get caught and have to pay up.

Randy

On 03/05/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
hidden tax.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:


Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all.

Randy


On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:


I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
wrote:

Just think of it as a speed tax.

If you want to go fast, you have to pay.
That was standard terminology at the old speed shops.
How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do.

Randy

On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

Nope.  Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies.  In the US of

A, we have the right to face our accuser.  Some camera company
inGermany is
not an accuser in the eyes of the court.

Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice.  They lie with studies
about safety.  They claim its fer da cilluns.  It really is all about
extorting money from the populace.


I see the speeders as perps, not victims.


On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
wrote:


   Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a


victim.

   
   






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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Randy Bennell]

Those who  can least afford to pay fines, should be among the most 
careful drivers in order to avoid having to pay the fines.


Randy

On 03/05/2013 1:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.



On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:


Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt.  Interstate
speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85.  Imagine the
revenue they could generate.

Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)

On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:


Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
hidden tax.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Ah, the voice of reason.  Plentiful north of the border but in woefully
short supply in the USA at the moment...

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

 It is not a hidden tax as we all know we can be caught if we drive faster
 than the posted limits.

 It is not a certain tax. Most of the time we get away with it.

 Sometimes we get caught and have to pay up.

 Randy

 On 03/05/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
 a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
 hidden tax.

 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
 wrote:

 Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all.

 Randy


 On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes.

 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
 wrote:

 Just think of it as a speed tax.

 If you want to go fast, you have to pay.
 That was standard terminology at the old speed shops.
 How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do.

 Randy

 On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

 Nope.  Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies.  In the US
 of

 A, we have the right to face our accuser.  Some camera company
 inGermany is
 not an accuser in the eyes of the court.

 Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice.  They lie with
 studies
 about safety.  They claim its fer da cilluns.  It really is all about
 extorting money from the populace.


 I see the speeders as perps, not victims.

 On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
 wrote:


Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a

 victim.







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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Dan Penoff]

We are working on it in Florida. There is a guy over in St. Pete who has done a 
fantastic job refuting all the government claims about their advantages, yet 
they still voted them in against the wishes of their constituents.

A local DA has received something like 4-5 red light camera tickets and gotten 
all of them thrown out. Seems that you don't have to come to a complete stop to 
turn right on a red light - you just have to slow to less than 12 mph.

I know a couple of people who got them and challenged the ticket. Both got 
dismissed.

If there was ever a bogus way of cleaning people's pockets I don't know of it.

Dan

On May 3, 2013, at 2:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 We the People in Arizona forced the speed cameras to be removed. Rampant
 fraud was part of the reason. The other part was the loss of Constitutional
 Right to face our accuser.
 
 Vote early Vote often.. it can work.
 
 
 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:
 
 Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt.  Interstate
 speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85.  Imagine the
 revenue they could generate.
 
 Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
 '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)
 
 On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 
 Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
 a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
 hidden tax.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[G. M. Brown]

Speed trap: I-81 Wytheville, VA.
 
G. M. Brown
Brevard, NC   
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding

[Randy Bennell]

Sadly, it is not all that common here either.

Randy

On 03/05/2013 2:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Ah, the voice of reason.  Plentiful north of the border but in woefully
short supply in the USA at the moment...

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:


It is not a hidden tax as we all know we can be caught if we drive faster
than the posted limits.

It is not a certain tax. Most of the time we get away with it.

Sometimes we get caught and have to pay up.

Randy

On 03/05/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:


Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
hidden tax.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
wrote:

Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all.

Randy


On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes.

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
wrote:

Just think of it as a speed tax.


If you want to go fast, you have to pay.
That was standard terminology at the old speed shops.
How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do.

Randy

On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

Nope.  Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies.  In the US
of


A, we have the right to face our accuser.  Some camera company
inGermany is
not an accuser in the eyes of the court.

Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice.  They lie with
studies
about safety.  They claim its fer da cilluns.  It really is all about
extorting money from the populace.


I see the speeders as perps, not victims.

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com

wrote:


Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a

victim.




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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Dieselhead]

Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. 
Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 
70-85.  Imagine the revenue they could generate.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)


Its IL.  THey money would never make it to the state coffers 
somehow/anyhow.  It would go to Rohm, Se IU, afs CME, Hof fa, 
bumbster, Corny A's or somewhere.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Max]

No.  Those of us outside the beltway and who have been taught critical thinking 
call that income redistribution aka stealing.  Done in the name of government 
doesn't change the morality of it.

Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston, SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Scott Ritchey]

What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
Constitutional protections as the poor?


Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.

-- 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[WILTON]

Relative measure of wealth reminds me:  When I was a boy on tobacco farms in 
Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the 
little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to 
the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would 
loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging 
the leaves into the barns.  Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 
(sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners.  Rich farmers had wheels on 
their store-bought, factory-built trucks.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue




What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
Constitutional protections as the poor?


Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:


Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.


--



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Scott Ritchey]

In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides.  I still have a
tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot
wide door) to hold yard equipment.  When this old tobacco farm was active it
was just as you describe.  I still have one slide that seems to be made from
2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading.  Also, the
curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the process.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

Relative measure of wealth reminds me:  When I was a boy on tobacco farms in

Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the 
little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to 
the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would 
loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging 
the leaves into the barns.  Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 
(sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners.  Rich farmers had wheels on 
their store-bought, factory-built trucks.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue



 What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
 understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
 Constitutional protections as the poor?


 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.

 -- 



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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[clay]

I am not sure about how best to deal with the poverty stricken and cost of life.

#1 boy was planning on using the E300 to get to his job.  At the time of offer, 
it was for graveyard shift unloading either trailer (Target) or airplane 
(Fedex).  He would be able to return home with the car so that I would be able 
to use it once I woke up.   With the car gone, he is now trying to figure out 
how to get to the job on city bus, which does not run in the wee hours of the 
night.  It would take him almost two hours to get  to the job, and another two 
home.  A car cuts it to around 25 minutes if traffic is flowing well.

Cost of vehicle purchase, insurance and fuel instead of maybe $60/mo. for the 
bus and around $40 a shift of wasted time based on wages.  The poor want all 
the goodies the established people have, so are trapped in unrealistic 
expectations of what a good life entails.  

Tax everybody until there is no cash flowing and see how far we get.

clay


On May 3, 2013, at 11:33 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
 progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to
 pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.
 
 
 
 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:
 
 Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt.  Interstate
 speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85.  Imagine the
 revenue they could generate.
 
 Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
 '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi)
 
 On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 
 Sorry!  I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely
 a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a
 hidden tax.
 
 
 __**_
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[WILTON]

Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both 
side and ends.  During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for 
heating the curing barns.  I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting 
to spend nights at the barn with Daddy.  A few times, I'd go to sleep at the 
barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had gone 
to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house.  Everybody, Mom, 
Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby.  I was lucky to 
have such a caring and loving family.  We never had much money or material 
things, but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, 
perseverance, persistence, and tenacity


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue




In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides.  I still have 
a

tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot
wide door) to hold yard equipment.  When this old tobacco farm was active 
it
was just as you describe.  I still have one slide that seems to be made 
from

2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading.  Also, the
curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the 
process.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

Relative measure of wealth reminds me:  When I was a boy on tobacco farms 
in


Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - 
the

little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to
the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would
loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging
the leaves into the barns.  Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6
(sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners.  Rich farmers had wheels on
their store-bought, factory-built trucks.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue




What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
Constitutional protections as the poor?


Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:


Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.


--



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[WILTON]

Oh, growing up on tenant farms also gave me an extremely strong desire to 
get a good education.  If every child/teenager now could have only a little 
bit of that intense desire for and education that I had, there'd be no need 
for juvenal courts and we'd hafta build a LOT more schools.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue


Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both 
side and ends.  During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for 
heating the curing barns.  I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting 
to spend nights at the barn with Daddy.  A few times, I'd go to sleep at 
the barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had 
gone to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house. 
Everybody, Mom, Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the 
baby.  I was lucky to have such a caring and loving family.  We never had 
much money or material things, but they gave me a strong sense of 
integrity, determination, perseverance, persistence, and tenacity


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue




In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides.  I still have 
a

tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot
wide door) to hold yard equipment.  When this old tobacco farm was active 
it
was just as you describe.  I still have one slide that seems to be made 
from

2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading.  Also, the
curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the 
process.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

Relative measure of wealth reminds me:  When I was a boy on tobacco farms 
in


Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - 
the
little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields 
to

the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would
loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging
the leaves into the barns.  Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6
(sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners.  Rich farmers had wheels on
their store-bought, factory-built trucks.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue




What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
Constitutional protections as the poor?


Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:


Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
to
pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.


--



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue

[Rich Thomas]

When I was a kid I spent summers with my grandparents, my granddaddies both 
grew terbacky.  I looked forward to the cutting time.  I got to drive the 
tractor pulling the wagon through the field then haul the load to the barn.  
Being 12 or 14 that was a real big deal.  My one granddaddy hired an old black 
man, one mr. Fred Torian who was quite a character.  He christened me an 
honorary soul brother at one point which I thought was pretty cool for a 
know-nothing white boy. He also made some wicked Q that was quite famous.

He had one guy on his crew named Sculley who was about 7ft tall and was always 
the guy on the wagon handing the sticks up to the guys on the tiers.  I learned 
many things from those guys while waiting for them to unload a wagon, none of 
which I shared with my parents!

My granddaddies occasionally grew dark fired backy but mostly grew air-cured 
burley.  They used arsenic of lead to kill the worms, go figure what that did 
to flavor the product.

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On May 3, 2013, at 11:14 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:

Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both side 
and ends.  During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for heating 
the curing barns.  I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting to spend 
nights at the barn with Daddy.  A few times, I'd go to sleep at the barn, but 
I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had gone to the barn 
and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house.  Everybody, Mom, Dad, 5 
brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby.  I was lucky to have such 
a caring and loving family.  We never had much money or material things, but 
they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, perseverance, 
persistence, and tenacity

Wilton

- Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue


 
 In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides.  I still have a
 tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot
 wide door) to hold yard equipment.  When this old tobacco farm was active it
 was just as you describe.  I still have one slide that seems to be made from
 2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading.  Also, the
 curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the process.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
 Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
 
 Relative measure of wealth reminds me:  When I was a boy on tobacco farms in
 
 Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the
 little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to
 the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would
 loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging
 the leaves into the barns.  Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6
 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners.  Rich farmers had wheels on
 their store-bought, factory-built trucks.
 
 Wilton
 
 - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com
 To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
 
 
 
 What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally
 understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same
 Constitutional protections as the poor?
 
 
 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a
 progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford
 to
 pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing.
 -- 
 
 
 
 ___
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Loren Faeth]

You must live on a different planet

At 10:43 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote:

What's so funny? Actually, I've been to traffic court like 6 times
when I was a teenager and drove crazy, and had the fines reduced to
the legal minimum or removed every time.

Sincerely,
Tyler

On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

tyler wrote:

I absolutely disagree with what you're saying. Most judges are
reasonable, and put the burden of proof on the officer, not the
defendant- as is required by law.

The judge also has the power to adjust sentencing to make the
punishment fit the crime. For example, over a year ago in Oregon I
got a ticket for running snow tires out of season. What I was doing
was illegal, and I admitted it to the judge- but pleaded not guilty
(the only option which gets you to court) because it had in fact
snowed a few days earlier, and I had put the tires on just for that
snow storm, and had then been out of town and didn't have time to
change them back. The judge found me guilty, but reduced the fine
to the absolute minimum (from about $150 to like $10).

If you are professional, courteous and reasonable, and don't
contradict the officers testimony (calling him a liar) but instead
explain the circumstances surrounding your actions, most judges
will give you the minimum sentence the law allows them to.

Tyler



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Loren Faeth 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[tyler]

I think it has to do with how you act and how you approach the 
situation. For example, I always file a discovery request for the 
officers notes, bring signed affidavits from any passengers with their 
complete story, bring relevant photos and maps of the scene/car/etc, and 
generally act respectful and professional- and I also generally have a 
very good reason for why I was breaking the law (or else I wouldn't have 
been doing so- right?). I will also get a new haircut and wear a full 
business suit or very nice clothes. The judges are also often very 
interested in my scientific research, especially if I was driving 
somewhere related to it at the time. The cops generally look unprepared, 
unprofessional, and insincere in comparison and the judge can see that. 
Generally they don't even remember the exact incident and their notes 
don't match their testimony very well.


Twice I've gotten tickets and instead of payment I sent in a copy of the 
relevant law highlighted along with a note to explain why my actions 
were not legally in violation- and they chose to dismiss the case 
without going to trial.


Tyler

Loren Faeth wrote:

You must live on a different planet

At 10:43 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote:

What's so funny? Actually, I've been to traffic court like 6 times
when I was a teenager and drove crazy, and had the fines reduced to
the legal minimum or removed every time.

Sincerely,
Tyler 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Hendrik Fay]

Not a different planet but a different world, I tried to challenge a 
speeding ticket many years ago (120 in a 110 zone) but failed miserably. 
The magistrates where sympathetic but had to uphold the law, ended up 
costing me more and a couple of points off the license.
Kinda frustrating when you consider some of the sentences handed out for 
serious stuff, a few years back there was a case of a young bloke who 
grabbed his old man's hand gun (safely stored under bed.not) and 
shot a newspaper delivery guy in the face because he thought this fella 
had attacked a couple of his girlfriends. The newspaper guy lost an eye 
and the young idiot got a suspended sentence. Following a public outcry 
the Government appealed the sentence and the shooter got some jail time.


Hendrik

tyler wrote:
I think it has to do with how you act and how you approach the 
situation. For example, I always file a discovery request for the 
officers notes, bring signed affidavits from any passengers with their 
complete story, bring relevant photos and maps of the scene/car/etc, 
and generally act respectful and professional- and I also generally 
have a very good reason for why I was breaking the law (or else I 
wouldn't have been doing so- right?). I will also get a new haircut 
and wear a full business suit or very nice clothes. The judges are 
also often very interested in my scientific research, especially if I 
was driving somewhere related to it at the time. The cops generally 
look unprepared, unprofessional, and insincere in comparison and the 
judge can see that. Generally they don't even remember the exact 
incident and their notes don't match their testimony very well.


Twice I've gotten tickets and instead of payment I sent in a copy of 
the relevant law highlighted along with a note to explain why my 
actions were not legally in violation- and they chose to dismiss the 
case without going to trial.


Tyler

Loren Faeth wrote:

You must live on a different planet

At 10:43 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote:

What's so funny? Actually, I've been to traffic court like 6 times
when I was a teenager and drove crazy, and had the fines reduced to
the legal minimum or removed every time.

Sincerely,
Tyler 






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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[tyler]

I absolutely disagree with what you're saying. Most judges are 
reasonable, and put the burden of proof on the officer, not the 
defendant- as is required by law.


The judge also has the power to adjust sentencing to make the punishment 
fit the crime. For example, over a year ago in Oregon I got a ticket for 
running snow tires out of season. What I was doing was illegal, and I 
admitted it to the judge- but pleaded not guilty (the only option which 
gets you to court) because it had in fact snowed a few days earlier, and 
I had put the tires on just for that snow storm, and had then been out 
of town and didn't have time to change them back. The judge found me 
guilty, but reduced the fine to the absolute minimum (from about $150 to 
like $10).


If you are professional, courteous and reasonable, and don't contradict 
the officers testimony (calling him a liar) but instead explain the 
circumstances surrounding your actions, most judges will give you the 
minimum sentence the law allows them to.


Tyler

Hendrik  Fay wrote:
Best off to just pay the thing, question is did you miss the sign or 
was the sign that badly vandalized that any reasonable person would 
not be able to make out what it was.
What is the basis of your challenge? That there was only one partially 
obscured sign?
You have to consider that a court will not go against an officer of 
the law unless you can absolutely prove that the issuing of the ticket 
was wrong. Can you do this?
I recently got a red light running ticket in my truck, situation was 
that a bus had partially pulled into my lane whilst wanting to turn at 
the traffic lights, there was a car to my left and I was busy watching 
my mirrors and the bus to see how far over I could go, in order to not 
hit the car or bus. By the time I saw that the lights where just about 
to turn red it was too late to safely stop.
I could go to court and explain the circumstances but the court would 
most likely say that given my experience I should have done better and 
stopped the truck if it was unsafe to proceed.


Hendrik


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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

tyler wrote:
I absolutely disagree with what you're saying. Most judges are 
reasonable, and put the burden of proof on the officer, not the 
defendant- as is required by law.


The judge also has the power to adjust sentencing to make the 
punishment fit the crime. For example, over a year ago in Oregon I got 
a ticket for running snow tires out of season. What I was doing was 
illegal, and I admitted it to the judge- but pleaded not guilty (the 
only option which gets you to court) because it had in fact snowed a 
few days earlier, and I had put the tires on just for that snow storm, 
and had then been out of town and didn't have time to change them 
back. The judge found me guilty, but reduced the fine to the absolute 
minimum (from about $150 to like $10).


If you are professional, courteous and reasonable, and don't 
contradict the officers testimony (calling him a liar) but instead 
explain the circumstances surrounding your actions, most judges will 
give you the minimum sentence the law allows them to.


Tyler

Hendrik  Fay wrote:
Best off to just pay the thing, question is did you miss the sign or 
was the sign that badly vandalized that any reasonable person would 
not be able to make out what it was.
What is the basis of your challenge? That there was only one 
partially obscured sign?
You have to consider that a court will not go against an officer of 
the law unless you can absolutely prove that the issuing of the 
ticket was wrong. Can you do this?
I recently got a red light running ticket in my truck, situation was 
that a bus had partially pulled into my lane whilst wanting to turn 
at the traffic lights, there was a car to my left and I was busy 
watching my mirrors and the bus to see how far over I could go, in 
order to not hit the car or bus. By the time I saw that the lights 
where just about to turn red it was too late to safely stop.
I could go to court and explain the circumstances but the court would 
most likely say that given my experience I should have done better 
and stopped the truck if it was unsafe to proceed.


Hendrik


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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.16/2241 - Release Date: 07/16/09 05:58:00


  


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 
89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 
84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 
http://www.okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's

[Allan Streib]

If hypothetically the officer forgot to have me sign the ticket does
that mean anything?

Allan

WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com writes:

 Late one afternoon in '76 at George AFB, CA, (near Victorville) I had
 dismantled a small, surplus bridge on base and most of the long beams
 loaded onto my '74 Plymouth van with several feet of each protruding
 out the back of the van.  I had attached a red flag and red reflector
 the end on one of the beams to improve their visibility for the night
 trip to my cabin 35 miles away in the San Gabriel Mountains where I
 planned to use the beams in the building of a deck.  Almost
 immediately after I exited the base onto the main highway for the trip
 to the cabin flashing blue lights of a CHP cruiser were behind me.  I
 pulled over thinking the officer was gonna jump me for having the
 beams protruding so far out the back or not having a light on them or
 question  why I was leaving the base loaded with such beams,
 especially at night.  He ask for my license and registration, which I
 immediately presented, of course.  He glanced at them, handed them
 back and said, Sorry to have bothered you, Sir.  Have a nice
 evening.  I put my license back in my wallet, threw the registration
 card on the engine cover by right leg and proceeded with my trip.
 Coupla days later, I picked up the registration card and, as I started
 to put it back in the glove compartment, I noticed that the card was
 for a '64 Dodge van that I had traded a coupla years before for the
 76 Plymouth van that I was driving!!! CHP officer never noticed the
 difference.  BTW, 'have no idea what they were looking for.

 Wilton

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:16 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding


 ernest breakfield wrote:
 try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if
  there was some way you could  have known what it actually was!

 I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my
 brakes on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign
 and 25mph on the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a
 curve and saw the sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by
 the book, straight from the academy' cop who was bored. It was about
 1:00 AM and I think he was waiting for the nearby tavern to
 close. He's the only cop who ever compared the VIN on my dash with
 the VIN on my registration.

 Mitch.

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-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Tyler]

What's so funny? Actually, I've been to traffic court like 6 times  
when I was a teenager and drove crazy, and had the fines reduced to  
the legal minimum or removed every time.


Sincerely,
Tyler

On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

tyler wrote:
I absolutely disagree with what you're saying. Most judges are  
reasonable, and put the burden of proof on the officer, not the  
defendant- as is required by law.


The judge also has the power to adjust sentencing to make the  
punishment fit the crime. For example, over a year ago in Oregon I  
got a ticket for running snow tires out of season. What I was doing  
was illegal, and I admitted it to the judge- but pleaded not guilty  
(the only option which gets you to court) because it had in fact  
snowed a few days earlier, and I had put the tires on just for that  
snow storm, and had then been out of town and didn't have time to  
change them back. The judge found me guilty, but reduced the fine  
to the absolute minimum (from about $150 to like $10).


If you are professional, courteous and reasonable, and don't  
contradict the officers testimony (calling him a liar) but instead  
explain the circumstances surrounding your actions, most judges  
will give you the minimum sentence the law allows them to.


Tyler



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[MBZ] OT: speeding

[Allan Streib]

Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20.  I thought I was on an
unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit.  I
cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road.  It's
a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park.

Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20.  I did not recall
seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and
found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint
vandalism.

Thinking of contesting the ticket.  I'm going back in the morning to
take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or
additional speed limit signs.  Anyone have a feeling whether a judge
would dismiss this at a bench trial?

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[pm7088]

Don't deal with the Judge, he will consider you a PIA. Go talk to the 
prosecutor, with luck he will reduce of nolly the charge. He's happy they got 
your attention. 


-- 

Peter Arnold 

Windsor, CT 

- Original Message - 
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu 
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:15:35 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: [MBZ] OT: speeding 

Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20. I thought I was on an 
unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit. I 
cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road. It's 
a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park. 

Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20. I did not recall 
seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and 
found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint 
vandalism. 

Thinking of contesting the ticket. I'm going back in the morning to 
take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or 
additional speed limit signs. Anyone have a feeling whether a judge 
would dismiss this at a bench trial? 

Allan 
-- 
1983 300D 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Jim Cathey]

Thinking of contesting the ticket.  I'm going back in the morning to
take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or
additional speed limit signs.  Anyone have a feeling whether a judge
would dismiss this at a bench trial?


One of the most instructive things I did, when dealing with
a speeding ticket myself, was to observe traffic court for a
few sessions beforehand.  (I had Fridays off at that point
in time.)

It might work, it might not.  Generally just showing up
at I'm sorry court and not being an idiot (either when
speeding or in court) could net you a halved fine.  (I
didn't do it court is pretty much all or nothing.  You
want I'm sorry court, btw.  You're not contesting your
speed or location, but the circumstances.  I went to the
wrong one [checked wrong box on ticket] but the judge was
understanding when I explained why I thought I was in the
right place, though she set me straight.)  Once in awhile
the ticket is dismissed.  Mine was.  (I had documentary
evidence of my brand-new and unexpectedly overly large
snow tires.  I remember thinking at the time, What, are
these guys bored or something?)

There are certain key phrases to use and to avoid, I'm
sure that's part of the (local) process.  There's also
what appeared to me to be an unsettling odor of randomness.
I recall one rather attractive girl's totally lame story,
her ticket's dismissal surprised even her.  Attitude is also
important.  Being next up after a raving asshole is also
not too good for your cause.  The judges have seen it all,
day-in day-out.  They have pretty good BS detectors, but
the nature of that job tends to make them cranky.

Watch.  Really.  You'll see not what works, but rather
a whole lot of what doesn't.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Mitch Haley]

pm7...@comcast.net wrote:

Don't deal with the Judge, he will consider you a PIA. Go talk to the prosecutor


Around here (Michigan) we have to demand a formal hearing to get a prostitutor 
and judge, otherwise it's just you, the cop, and a part time lawyer/magistrate.


My experience with demanding a formal hearing:
1. Calhoun County, demanded formal hearing on the advice of my counsel, got 
scheduled for an informal hearing, complained, got rescheduled for pre-trial 
conference with a persecuting attorney.
At the conference, he offered me dismissal w/o prejudice, to be reinstated if 
any further violations in the next six months, and I pay $25 costs. That seemed 
to be the SOP, if you are accused of a traffic offense, have a clean record, and 
nobody was hurt, they just get you out of there without costing the county any 
more money. The other speeder there got the same deal for going a bit faster 
than me.


2. Eaton County, demanded formal hearing, scheduled for informal hearing, 
complained and got scheduled for formal hearing. No pretrial, but five minutes 
before the hearing, the prostituting attorney offered me the chance to plea 
guilty and pay. At trial, cop lied through his teeth, I dragged it out for a 
couple of hours trying to get some truth out of him, and it probably cost the 
county $1000-2000 to get an $80 speeding fine out of me for being the slowest 
car on the road. (that'll teach them to handle it a pre-trial, eh?)


3. Eaton County, several years later. Demanded formal hearing, actually got 
scheduled for one, with pre-trial conference beforehand. Good thing for the 
clerk, I was ready to sue her the next time somebody tried to deny my right to a 
formal hearing by purposefully ignoring my request. PA said Your record doesn't 
merit this charge Oh, so you'll be dismissing it? No, but if you settle 
here, I'll reduce it greatly. So, BS criminal charges dismissed, paid a stiff 
fine for traffic offense not chargeable against my insurance rating. I still 
liked the first result best, but #3 was better than #2.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Loren Faeth]

I want to encourage you to resist.  The only discouragement they get 
is when you make them spend more to prosecute than the ticket is worth.


that said, in the first proceeding your chances of success I would 
put at 5% or less.  As one judge told me once, If you weren't 
guilty, they would not have given you a ticket.  Most likely, the 
case will be dismissed on appeal to a real court.  That pretty much 
necessitates paying a shyster to represent you.


At 01:15 AM 7/15/2009, you wrote:

Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20.  I thought I was on an
unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit.  I
cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road.  It's
a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park.

Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20.  I did not recall
seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and
found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint
vandalism.

Thinking of contesting the ticket.  I'm going back in the morning to
take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or
additional speed limit signs.  Anyone have a feeling whether a judge
would dismiss this at a bench trial?

Allan
--
1983 300D

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Loren Faeth 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[WILTON]

I'd gather evidence and talk to prosecutor about dismissal.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:15 AM
Subject: [MBZ] OT: speeding



Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20.  I thought I was on an
unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit.  I
cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road.  It's
a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park.

Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20.  I did not recall
seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and
found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint
vandalism.

Thinking of contesting the ticket.  I'm going back in the morning to
take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or
additional speed limit signs.  Anyone have a feeling whether a judge
would dismiss this at a bench trial?

Allan
--
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Mitch Haley]

Loren Faeth wrote:
I want to encourage you to resist.  The only discouragement they get is 
when you make them spend more to prosecute than the ticket is worth.


I forgot to mention in my earlier reply:
If you have photographic evidence, don't let anybody see it until after you've 
cross-examined the lying sack of cop. Otherwise, the scene of the offense will 
magically change to someplace different than where your photographs were taken 
(and also different from the location written on the ticket) When it happened to 
me, I had an envelope from a photo processing lab on the table in front of me.
The judge didn't care that the place I claimed it happened and the place written 
on the ticket was different from the place the cop testified to in court.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[ernest breakfield]

always fight a ticket. there are a variety of reasons you might get off.

   if it comes down to convincing a judge, i wouldn't argue about what 
my actual speed was but would be prepared to show evidence that you 
couldn't have *reasonably* known that the speed limit was 20 since 
that's what you've been charged with exceeding. it may be a tough 
argument since there *was* a sign there (even if it was partially 
obliterated), but i'd bring plenty of pictures and try to make it clear 
that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way you could 
have known what it actually was! municipalities have a certain 
responsibility to make it possible for people to know what the 
regulations are for any specific place; this is what you're playing to, 
although you'll probably piss off a judge by saying it this way.
   (if it can be shown that this is an area you aren't familiar with, 
that wouldn't hurt; of course, if this is part of your regular commute, 
it might be deemed that you should have known what the speed limit was.)


   it varies too much from area to area to know the specifics of how 
things work where you'll be going to court, but i'm 3-0 in fighting my 
last 3 tickets like this in CA.
   you may even have the option of a 'Trail by Declaration' where you 
make your statement and present your evidence by mail (without ever 
having to appear in court). this often works for you because the citing 
officer has to present his side the same way, and they're generally not 
particularly fond of having to do more paperwork (and are frequently 
surprisingly bad at it).


   if it makes a big difference to you, talk to a lawyer; they might 
have some tips for you, but sometimes just having legal representation 
seems to make enough of a difference that a ruling will come out in your 
favor.



cheers!
e


Allan Streib wrote:

Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20.  I thought I was on an
unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit.  I
cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road.  It's
a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park.

Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20.  I did not recall
seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and
found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint
vandalism.

Thinking of contesting the ticket.  I'm going back in the morning to
take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or
additional speed limit signs.  Anyone have a feeling whether a judge
would dismiss this at a bench trial?

Allan
  

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[ernest breakfield]

er, make that trIAl by declaration,... silly spell check doesn't know 
what i *meant* to say!   ;-)



cheers!
e


ernest breakfield wrote:

always fight a ticket. there are a variety of reasons you might get off.

   if it comes down to convincing a judge, i wouldn't argue about what 
my actual speed was but would be prepared to show evidence that you 
couldn't have *reasonably* known that the speed limit was 20 since 
that's what you've been charged with exceeding. it may be a tough 
argument since there *was* a sign there (even if it was partially 
obliterated), but i'd bring plenty of pictures and try to make it 
clear that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way 
you could have known what it actually was! municipalities have a 
certain responsibility to make it possible for people to know what the 
regulations are for any specific place; this is what you're playing 
to, although you'll probably piss off a judge by saying it this way.
   (if it can be shown that this is an area you aren't familiar with, 
that wouldn't hurt; of course, if this is part of your regular 
commute, it might be deemed that you should have known what the 
speed limit was.)


   it varies too much from area to area to know the specifics of how 
things work where you'll be going to court, but i'm 3-0 in fighting my 
last 3 tickets like this in CA.
   you may even have the option of a 'Trail by Declaration' where you 
make your statement and present your evidence by mail (without ever 
having to appear in court). this often works for you because the 
citing officer has to present his side the same way, and they're 
generally not particularly fond of having to do more paperwork (and 
are frequently surprisingly bad at it).


   if it makes a big difference to you, talk to a lawyer; they might 
have some tips for you, but sometimes just having legal representation 
seems to make enough of a difference that a ruling will come out in 
your favor.



cheers!
e


Allan Streib wrote:

Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20.  I thought I was on an
unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit.  I
cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road.  It's
a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park.

Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20.  I did not recall
seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and
found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint
vandalism.

Thinking of contesting the ticket.  I'm going back in the morning to
take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or
additional speed limit signs.  Anyone have a feeling whether a judge
would dismiss this at a bench trial?

Allan
  

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Mitch Haley]

ernest breakfield wrote:

try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if

 there was some way you could  have known what it actually was!

I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my brakes on. 
AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph on the 
other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the sign. No 
ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight from the academy' 
cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was waiting for the 
nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever compared the VIN on my dash 
with the VIN on my registration.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's

[WILTON]

Late one afternoon in '76 at George AFB, CA, (near Victorville) I had 
dismantled a small, surplus bridge on base and most of the long beams loaded 
onto my '74 Plymouth van with several feet of each protruding out the back 
of the van.  I had attached a red flag and red reflector the end on one of 
the beams to improve their visibility for the night trip to my cabin 35 
miles away in the San Gabriel Mountains where I planned to use the beams in 
the building of a deck.  Almost immediately after I exited the base onto the 
main highway for the trip to the cabin flashing blue lights of a CHP cruiser 
were behind me.  I pulled over thinking the officer was gonna jump me for 
having the beams protruding so far out the back or not having a light on 
them or question  why I was leaving the base loaded with such beams, 
especially at night.  He ask for my license and registration, which I 
immediately presented, of course.  He glanced at them, handed them back and 
said, Sorry to have bothered you, Sir.  Have a nice evening.  I put my 
license back in my wallet, threw the registration card on the engine cover 
by right leg and proceeded with my trip.  'Coupla days later, I picked up 
the registration card and, as I started to put it back in the glove 
compartment, I noticed that the card was for a '64 Dodge van that I had 
traded a coupla years before for the '76 Plymouth van that I was driving!!! 
CHP officer never noticed the difference.  BTW, 'have no idea what they were 
looking for.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding



ernest breakfield wrote:

try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if

 there was some way you could  have known what it actually was!

I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my brakes 
on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph on 
the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the 
sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight from 
the academy' cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was 
waiting for the nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever 
compared the VIN on my dash with the VIN on my registration.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's

[R A Bennell]

Even back then, he may have just been checking to see if you appeared to have 
been drinking. You appeared sober so
he let you go on your way.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:50 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's


Late one afternoon in '76 at George AFB, CA, (near Victorville) I had
dismantled a small, surplus bridge on base and most of the long beams loaded
onto my '74 Plymouth van with several feet of each protruding out the back
of the van.  I had attached a red flag and red reflector the end on one of
the beams to improve their visibility for the night trip to my cabin 35
miles away in the San Gabriel Mountains where I planned to use the beams in
the building of a deck.  Almost immediately after I exited the base onto the
main highway for the trip to the cabin flashing blue lights of a CHP cruiser
were behind me.  I pulled over thinking the officer was gonna jump me for
having the beams protruding so far out the back or not having a light on
them or question  why I was leaving the base loaded with such beams,
especially at night.  He ask for my license and registration, which I
immediately presented, of course.  He glanced at them, handed them back and
said, Sorry to have bothered you, Sir.  Have a nice evening.  I put my
license back in my wallet, threw the registration card on the engine cover
by right leg and proceeded with my trip.  'Coupla days later, I picked up
the registration card and, as I started to put it back in the glove
compartment, I noticed that the card was for a '64 Dodge van that I had
traded a coupla years before for the '76 Plymouth van that I was driving!!!
CHP officer never noticed the difference.  BTW, 'have no idea what they were
looking for.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding


 ernest breakfield wrote:
 try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if
  there was some way you could  have known what it actually was!

 I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my brakes
 on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph on
 the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the
 sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight from
 the academy' cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was
 waiting for the nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever
 compared the VIN on my dash with the VIN on my registration.

 Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's

[WILTON]

Yeah, my thought, too.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's


Even back then, he may have just been checking to see if you appeared to 
have been drinking. You appeared sober so

he let you go on your way.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:50 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's


Late one afternoon in '76 at George AFB, CA, (near Victorville) I had
dismantled a small, surplus bridge on base and most of the long beams 
loaded

onto my '74 Plymouth van with several feet of each protruding out the back
of the van.  I had attached a red flag and red reflector the end on one of
the beams to improve their visibility for the night trip to my cabin 35
miles away in the San Gabriel Mountains where I planned to use the beams 
in
the building of a deck.  Almost immediately after I exited the base onto 
the
main highway for the trip to the cabin flashing blue lights of a CHP 
cruiser

were behind me.  I pulled over thinking the officer was gonna jump me for
having the beams protruding so far out the back or not having a light on
them or question  why I was leaving the base loaded with such beams,
especially at night.  He ask for my license and registration, which I
immediately presented, of course.  He glanced at them, handed them back 
and

said, Sorry to have bothered you, Sir.  Have a nice evening.  I put my
license back in my wallet, threw the registration card on the engine cover
by right leg and proceeded with my trip.  'Coupla days later, I picked up
the registration card and, as I started to put it back in the glove
compartment, I noticed that the card was for a '64 Dodge van that I had
traded a coupla years before for the '76 Plymouth van that I was 
driving!!!
CHP officer never noticed the difference.  BTW, 'have no idea what they 
were

looking for.

Wilton

- Original Message -
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding



ernest breakfield wrote:

try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if

 there was some way you could  have known what it actually was!

I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my 
brakes
on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph 
on

the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the
sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight 
from

the academy' cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was
waiting for the nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever
compared the VIN on my dash with the VIN on my registration.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding

[Hendrik Fay]

Best off to just pay the thing, question is did you miss the sign or was 
the sign that badly vandalized that any reasonable person would not be 
able to make out what it was.
What is the basis of your challenge? That there was only one partially 
obscured sign?
You have to consider that a court will not go against an officer of the 
law unless you can absolutely prove that the issuing of the ticket was 
wrong. Can you do this?
I recently got a red light running ticket in my truck, situation was 
that a bus had partially pulled into my lane whilst wanting to turn at 
the traffic lights, there was a car to my left and I was busy watching 
my mirrors and the bus to see how far over I could go, in order to not 
hit the car or bus. By the time I saw that the lights where just about 
to turn red it was too late to safely stop.
I could go to court and explain the circumstances but the court would 
most likely say that given my experience I should have done better and 
stopped the truck if it was unsafe to proceed.


Hendrik

Allan Streib wrote:

Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20.  I thought I was on an
unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit.  I
cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road.  It's
a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park.

Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20.  I did not recall
seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and
found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint
vandalism.

Thinking of contesting the ticket.  I'm going back in the morning to
take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or
additional speed limit signs.  Anyone have a feeling whether a judge
would dismiss this at a bench trial?

Allan
  



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