Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Many new cars have electric parking brake. I can't figure why...

Curt 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 11:08 AM, archer75--- via 
Mercedes wrote:   What year was the Lexus? My '08 Prius 
has an all mechanical parking brake. Stomp on the foot pedal and it stops 
rolling.
Gerry
'83 300D
'83 240D
'08 Prius

Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> On a serious note, my uphill neighbor on the same long, straight, steep
> driveway experienced a total power failure on a lexis hybrid suv at the top
> of the drive. It then began rolling backward down the hill and there was
> little she could do to stop it, because everything was electrically
> actuated. I will have to ask her what technique she used to stop. She got
> rid of the car immediately.
> On Jun 30, 2016 8:32 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
> 
> Hmm, I hadn't thought of it before but in an accident where battery power
> fails do you end up with a car you can't put into park?
> Of course in a bad front end collision I can see the linkage for a shifter
> getting destroyed too.
> I'm not a fan of the electric parking brake concept. I can see having the
> battery go flat and not be able to get the brake off. I presume theres some
> failsafe for that but I've never looked into it.
> -Curt
> 
>      From: Fred Moir via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Fred Moir 
>  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:23 AM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more
> complex shifter?"
> 
> Randy, et al.
> 
> A flat battery would ruin your day.
> 
> Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and
> selecting, from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.
> 
> In the split second available, could it be done effectively?
> 
> I think not.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> Fred
> 
> For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
> an app on their cell phone might work just as well.
> 
> RB
> 
> 
> 
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

What year was the Lexus? My '08 Prius has an all mechanical parking brake. 
Stomp on the foot pedal and it stops rolling.
Gerry
'83 300D
'83 240D
'08 Prius

Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> On a serious note, my uphill neighbor on the same long, straight, steep
> driveway experienced a total power failure on a lexis hybrid suv at the top
> of the drive. It then began rolling backward down the hill and there was
> little she could do to stop it, because everything was electrically
> actuated. I will have to ask her what technique she used to stop. She got
> rid of the car immediately.
> On Jun 30, 2016 8:32 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
> 
> Hmm, I hadn't thought of it before but in an accident where battery power
> fails do you end up with a car you can't put into park?
> Of course in a bad front end collision I can see the linkage for a shifter
> getting destroyed too.
> I'm not a fan of the electric parking brake concept. I can see having the
> battery go flat and not be able to get the brake off. I presume theres some
> failsafe for that but I've never looked into it.
> -Curt
> 
>   From: Fred Moir via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Fred Moir 
>  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:23 AM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more
> complex shifter?"
> 
> Randy, et al.
> 
> A flat battery would ruin your day.
> 
> Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and
> selecting, from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.
> 
> In the split second available, could it be done effectively?
> 
> I think not.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> Fred
> 
> For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
> an app on their cell phone might work just as well.
> 
> RB
> 
> 
> 
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

On a serious note, my uphill neighbor on the same long, straight, steep
driveway experienced a total power failure on a lexis hybrid suv at the top
of the drive. It then began rolling backward down the hill and there was
little she could do to stop it, because everything was electrically
actuated. I will have to ask her what technique she used to stop. She got
rid of the car immediately.
On Jun 30, 2016 8:32 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 
wrote:

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it before but in an accident where battery power
fails do you end up with a car you can't put into park?
Of course in a bad front end collision I can see the linkage for a shifter
getting destroyed too.
I'm not a fan of the electric parking brake concept. I can see having the
battery go flat and not be able to get the brake off. I presume theres some
failsafe for that but I've never looked into it.
-Curt

  From: Fred Moir via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Fred Moir 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more
complex shifter?"

Randy, et al.

A flat battery would ruin your day.

Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and
selecting, from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.

In the split second available, could it be done effectively?

I think not.

YMMV

Fred

For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
an app on their cell phone might work just as well.

RB



Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

for the kids today, an app on their cell phone might work just as well.


So long as they don't need to look up!

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[OK Don via Mercedes]

That's for the totals, look at the rate per 100 million miles driven - it's
still going down. I suspect that it's due to all those safety things that
MB keeps inventing and allowing others to freely copy/use.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Traffic fatality trends:
>
>
> http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/overview-of-fatality-facts#Trends
>
> Looks like we've hit a plateau.  I blame (fill in the blank) !!!
>
> Note that the plateau started around 1992, there was a large drop for the
> 2008/9 recession (fewer miles driven), and we settled at another lower
> plateau.
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
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>
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Traffic fatality trends:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/overview-of-fatality-facts#Trends

Looks like we've hit a plateau.  I blame (fill in the blank) !!!

Note that the plateau started around 1992, there was a large drop for the
2008/9 recession (fewer miles driven), and we settled at another lower
plateau.

-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[OK Don via Mercedes]

If you don't like how the cars are being built, don't buy them. Build your
own to your own specs - you'll have no one but yourself to blame for any
failures, but you'll also have the knowledge to fix/change them.

Aircraft likewise - hence the Wittman Tailwind I'm building.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The 787 rollout wasn't what you'd call a smashing success, several battery
> issues one of which IIRC filled a plane with smoke.
> Still both Boeing and Airbus make astonishingly safe aircraft that fly
> millions of miles between incidents. Many (most?) of the "issues" are human
> related, not the aircraft.
> -Curt
>
>   From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Randy Bennell 
>  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 12:46 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more
> complex shifter?"
>
> Yes, I think so.
> Boeing had an issue recently too with a plane on fire - Singapore maybe?
> They got everyone off alive.
>
> RB
>
> On 30/06/2016 11:40 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:
> > Much so.
> > Isn't that another Airbus they're now trying to pull out of the
> > Mediterranean?
> >
> > Wilton
> >
> >
> >> On 30/06/2016 10:52 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> Fly Boeing.
> >>>
> >>> Wilton
> >>
> >> Is that like, if it is not Boeing, I am not going?
> >>
> >> RB
> >>
> >> ___
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The 787 rollout wasn't what you'd call a smashing success, several battery 
issues one of which IIRC filled a plane with smoke.
Still both Boeing and Airbus make astonishingly safe aircraft that fly millions 
of miles between incidents. Many (most?) of the "issues" are human related, not 
the aircraft.
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Randy Bennell 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 12:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"
   
Yes, I think so.
Boeing had an issue recently too with a plane on fire - Singapore maybe?
They got everyone off alive.

RB

On 30/06/2016 11:40 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:
> Much so.
> Isn't that another Airbus they're now trying to pull out of the 
> Mediterranean?
>
> Wilton
>
>
>> On 30/06/2016 10:52 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Fly Boeing.
>>>
>>> Wilton
>>
>> Is that like, if it is not Boeing, I am not going?
>>
>> RB
>>
>> ___ 


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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Allahuwa Akbar Airlines

--JC


On 6/30/16 12:40 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

Much so.
Isn't that another Airbus they're now trying to pull out of the 
Mediterranean?


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Randy Bennell via Mercedes" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Randy Bennell" 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more 
complex shifter?"




On 30/06/2016 10:52 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

Fly Boeing.

Wilton


Is that like, if it is not Boeing, I am not going?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Yes, I think so.
Boeing had an issue recently too with a plane on fire - Singapore maybe?
They got everyone off alive.

RB

On 30/06/2016 11:40 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

Much so.
Isn't that another Airbus they're now trying to pull out of the 
Mediterranean?


Wilton



On 30/06/2016 10:52 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

Fly Boeing.

Wilton


Is that like, if it is not Boeing, I am not going?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Much so.
Isn't that another Airbus they're now trying to pull out of the 
Mediterranean?


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Bennell via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Randy Bennell" 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more 
complex shifter?"




On 30/06/2016 10:52 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

Fly Boeing.

Wilton


Is that like, if it is not Boeing, I am not going?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 30/06/2016 10:57 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:
'Reminds me:  12-year-old grandson showed me how to use the nav system 
in Schwartze (MB 211).


Wilton


Yes, the very young children have grown up with things like cell phones, 
iPads and laptop computers.
Our 9 year old great niece works the complicted television setup with 
PVR etc quickly and accurately.
I, on the other hand, have no idea how it all works. I have never cared 
enough to figure it out. I gave up on TV for the most part a while back.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Reminds me of something I read once, a farmer complaining that the tractor had 
ruined farming and his sons would never know how to farm with horses.His buddy 
replies "I never learned to farm with oxen and I seem to have done alright."
I think every generation rails that the younger generation is doing it all 
wrong. IIRC somewhere theres an ancient greek text complaining that kids these 
days don't respect their elders and their music is weird.
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Randy Bennell 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"
   
I am totally with you Fred.
I learned to drive on manual transmissions and would still find it 
easier to kick in the clutch than to shft the automatic into neutral or 
park.
BUT we are another generation or two removed from the young folks today.
Have you ever watched the kids text with both thumbs?
I am pretty slow texting because I only use one finger to hit the screen 
buttons.
I only started texting a couple of years ago and I have no idea how to 
Tweet or any idea why I would want to do so, or why I would want to 
"follow" what someone like Justin Bieber wants to share with the world.
However, I suspect that the new drivers coming along would find the new 
shifters more in tune with their world than we ever will.
The car makers need to limit who buys and the licencing people need to 
restrict those who can drive these things. You and I will be banned!

RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[WILTON via Mercedes]

'Reminds me:  12-year-old grandson showed me how to use the nav system in 
Schwartze (MB 211).


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Bennell via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Randy Bennell" 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more 
complex shifter?"




On 30/06/2016 10:23 AM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Randy, et al.

A flat battery would ruin your day.

Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and 
selecting, from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.


In the split second available, could it be done effectively?

I think not.

YMMV

Fred

For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
an app on their cell phone might work just as well.

RB



Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.
___


I am totally with you Fred.
I learned to drive on manual transmissions and would still find it easier 
to kick in the clutch than to shft the automatic into neutral or park.

BUT we are another generation or two removed from the young folks today.
Have you ever watched the kids text with both thumbs?
I am pretty slow texting because I only use one finger to hit the screen 
buttons.
I only started texting a couple of years ago and I have no idea how to 
Tweet or any idea why I would want to do so, or why I would want to 
"follow" what someone like Justin Bieber wants to share with the world.
However, I suspect that the new drivers coming along would find the new 
shifters more in tune with their world than we ever will.
The car makers need to limit who buys and the licencing people need to 
restrict those who can drive these things. You and I will be banned!


RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 30/06/2016 10:23 AM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:
  


A flat battery would ruin your day.

  


Fred



Reminds me of the old poster that said, "one little nuclear bomb can 
just ruin your whole day".


RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 30/06/2016 10:52 AM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

Fly Boeing.

Wilton


Is that like, if it is not Boeing, I am not going?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 30/06/2016 10:23 AM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Randy, et al.

A flat battery would ruin your day.

Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and selecting, 
from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.

In the split second available, could it be done effectively?

I think not.

YMMV

Fred

For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
an app on their cell phone might work just as well.

RB



Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.
___


I am totally with you Fred.
I learned to drive on manual transmissions and would still find it 
easier to kick in the clutch than to shft the automatic into neutral or 
park.

BUT we are another generation or two removed from the young folks today.
Have you ever watched the kids text with both thumbs?
I am pretty slow texting because I only use one finger to hit the screen 
buttons.
I only started texting a couple of years ago and I have no idea how to 
Tweet or any idea why I would want to do so, or why I would want to 
"follow" what someone like Justin Bieber wants to share with the world.
However, I suspect that the new drivers coming along would find the new 
shifters more in tune with their world than we ever will.
The car makers need to limit who buys and the licencing people need to 
restrict those who can drive these things. You and I will be banned!


RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Fly Boeing.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Curt Raymond" 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more 
complex shifter?"



Hmm, I hadn't thought of it before but in an accident where battery power 
fails do you end up with a car you can't put into park?
Of course in a bad front end collision I can see the linkage for a shifter 
getting destroyed too.
I'm not a fan of the electric parking brake concept. I can see having the 
battery go flat and not be able to get the brake off. I presume theres 
some failsafe for that but I've never looked into it.

-Curt

 From: Fred Moir via Mercedes 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Fred Moir 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more 
complex shifter?"


Randy, et al.

A flat battery would ruin your day.

Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and 
selecting, from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.


In the split second available, could it be done effectively?

I think not.

YMMV

Fred

For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
an app on their cell phone might work just as well.

RB



Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

A podcast I listen to recently included the line "People wouldn't die".
I sent them a note mentioning that EVERYBODY will die at some point, maybe they 
meant "people wouldn't die right now".
They were good enough to correct themselves in a later episode...
-Curt

  From: Fred Moir via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Fred Moir 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"
   
Joel.

Your faith in technology is sweet. My life-long observation of the 
brilliance/greed/and plain ego driven designs make me very wary of claims of 
omnipotence.

"They are lousy shots, they'll never hit me from he."

Trust but verify and train to handle all foreseeable faults, and memorize the 
prayer of personal choice.

Perhaps The Shepherds prayer? "Lord please don't let me f**k-up".  Alan 
Shepherd that is.

Not cynical, rather experienced.

Remember that you should not take life too seriously, you are not getting out 
of it alive.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes  on behalf of Joel Cairo via 
Mercedes 
Sent: 30 June 2016 15:25
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Joel Cairo
Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"

Skynet will soon be here to do it all for us

--JC

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I'm wondering how those cars will fare in the zombie apocalypse...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Skynet will soon be here to do it all for us
>
> --JC
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Joel.

Your faith in technology is sweet. My life-long observation of the 
brilliance/greed/and plain ego driven designs make me very wary of claims of 
omnipotence.

"They are lousy shots, they'll never hit me from he."

Trust but verify and train to handle all foreseeable faults, and memorize the 
prayer of personal choice.

Perhaps The Shepherds prayer? "Lord please don't let me f**k-up".  Alan 
Shepherd that is.

Not cynical, rather experienced.

Remember that you should not take life too seriously, you are not getting out 
of it alive.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes  on behalf of Joel Cairo via 
Mercedes 
Sent: 30 June 2016 15:25
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Joel Cairo
Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"

Skynet will soon be here to do it all for us

--JC

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it before but in an accident where battery power fails 
do you end up with a car you can't put into park?
Of course in a bad front end collision I can see the linkage for a shifter 
getting destroyed too.
I'm not a fan of the electric parking brake concept. I can see having the 
battery go flat and not be able to get the brake off. I presume theres some 
failsafe for that but I've never looked into it.
-Curt

  From: Fred Moir via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Fred Moir 
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"
   
Randy, et al.

A flat battery would ruin your day.

Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and selecting, 
from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.

In the split second available, could it be done effectively?

I think not.

YMMV

Fred

For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
an app on their cell phone might work just as well.

RB



Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Skynet will soon be here to do it all for us

--JC


On 6/30/16 11:23 AM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Randy, et al.

A flat battery would ruin your day.

Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and selecting, 
from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.

In the split second available, could it be done effectively?

I think not.

YMMV

Fred

For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
an app on their cell phone might work just as well.

RB



Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.
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--
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Randy, et al.

A flat battery would ruin your day.

Also, to use an "AP" would require looking down at the screen and selecting, 
from a menu, the appropriate icon, etc.

In the split second available, could it be done effectively?

I think not.

YMMV

Fred

For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today,
an app on their cell phone might work just as well.

RB



Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 29/06/2016 11:09 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Yup. A shift lever, even if it is only hooked to wires, can be 
operated on instinct/adreneline.  (Shove it in park as soon as it 
stops after an accident.)  that will never happen with a rotary switch 
on the console.  There has to be conscious thought (and visual 
contact) to move it to a different setting. 


For us old folks who grew up with shifters, yes, but for the kids today, 
an app on their cell phone might work just as well.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 29/06/2016 11:17 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
I saw a GenU-wine 57 plymie today!  Running down the road, pushbuttons 
and all!   Faded red with a white top.   BIG fins!


Trailing a plume of blue smoke?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[WILTON via Mercedes]

I can attest to that - "Shove it into park as soon as it stops after an 
accident," that is.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Curley McLain via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Curley McLain" <126die...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more 
complex shifter?"



Yup.  A shift lever, even if it is only hooked to wires, can be operated 
on instinct/adreneline.  (Shove it in park as soon as it stops after an 
accident.)  that will never happen with a rotary switch on the console. 
There has to be conscious thought (and visual contact) to move it to a 
different setting.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 29, 2016 at 11:09 AM
I can see how that rotary switch isn't too bad, but can you operate 
without

looking? Can you operate it correctly when fear / shock / adrenaline are
in play, like following a collision? With complexity comes risk, and if
each auto maker goes their own way, switching between vehicles becomes a
real chore, maybe too much of a barrier to overcome in an emergency.
Progress in one area doesn't necessarily mean overall progress, we have 
to

chose our measurements carefully.

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Curley sez:

>‎saw a GenU-wine 57 plymie >today! Running down the road, >pushbuttons 
>and all! Faded red with a white >top. BIG fins!

Christine. Be afraid. Very afraid.

  ‎http://stephenking.wikia.com/wiki/Christine_(car)


Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10
  Original Message  

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I saw a GenU-wine 57 plymie today!  Running down the road, pushbuttons 
and all!   Faded red with a white top.   BIG fins!



Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
June 29, 2016 at 7:05 PM



A friend in high school had a 1962 Polara with push button torqueflite 
transmission.


http://www.kingoftheroad.net/1964_Chrysler_New_Yorker_wagon/images/64-chry-tranny-buttons.jpg

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Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
June 29, 2016 at 6:44 PM

The last push-button shifter I saw was on an Edsel.


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Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
June 29, 2016 at 8:19 AM
Driving the ML blueytechie the other day I shut it off (pushed a 
button) while it was still in "D" (push a lever sorta down) and it 
appeared not to then go into "P" since I had not pushed the button on 
the end of the lever to tell it to "P" before pushing it off. It 
seemed to still be in something other than "P" though no indication of 
what ("N"?).  I think I might then have pushed the "P" button at the 
end of the "shift" lever or pushed the parking brake button to set the 
brake (I looked for an actual pedal or mechanical lever but alas there 
was no such thing) or both as it was on a slight incline anyway, 
whichever it was it stopped rolling on the incline.


It also has steering wheel paddles, the functions of which I have not 
bothered to learn yet as it seems to know what it needs to do to move 
the thing once I tell it to "D" or "R"  using the little "shift" lever 
and push the "throttle" pedal switch lever thing. All the various 
electronic nannies seem to get their shit together though when I push 
the "throttle" switch lever pedal as it moves with considerable 
alacrity and becomes quite entertaining -- not bad for a dizzel.


The brakes on it (brake switch lever pedal) are touchy as hell too, 
doesn't take much to do a faceplant in the windshield.


One thing I have noticed, and it is mildly annoying, is that it seems 
to either downshift or put on the JakeBrake when one lets off the 
"throttle" -- it seems to bog down almost like applying the brake 
switch lever pedal, not coasting.  That might be some function of the 
transmission downshifting or TC staying locked up or something, I 
don't know.  Or maybe the German nannies just know what I want to do, 
or should be doing, and do it for me.


I am hoping for the Benzites also to get busted for monkeying with the 
dizzel nannies so I can get some money from them.


--JC




Curley McLain 
June 28, 2016 at 11:59 PM
Yep!  the pushbutton gearshift has gone to the absurd!  A simple lever 
still works best, even if it is only and electric switch with 
detents.  At the auction I had to drive some of those miserable goofy 
things.  The one pictured as lan drover, with the rotary switch was in 
something I drove, but not a lan drover.  MB is right there with the 
absurdity, but at least theirs is somewhat easy to decipher.


But a multimillion$$$ lawsuit won't stop them from using stupid, 
non-intuitive gagets in place of a gear shift.  All the millions toada 
had to pay out for the push and pray did not slow down the use of push 
and pray.


THe "gear shift" is now in the hands of software developers, and not 
engineers.  Software developers love to make the use of the software 
obscure, odd, weird, or oddball, so that you need a class to be able 
to use a telephone. (as an example) It is not about functionality, but 
about how to impress other software nerds with how obscure and weird I 
made this.   Look for more "gearshift" deaths, just like "Push and 
pray" deaths.


The pushbutton gearshift of the 50s was workable, if unreliable.  the 
new pushbutton gearshifts are not workable, reliable or safe.  BEWARE!


Buy a 123, 124 or 126, or 116, or 108-115 instead!


Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 28, 2016 at 12:03 PM
PRNDL is dead, long live PRNDL!

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160627/OEM11/306279980/array-of-levers-and-dials-complicates-a-once-simple-function

I would think that if I needed to read the manual just to figure out 
how to

shift the transmission, I have just demonstrated that the car (or truck or
whatever) is too complex and a hazard to operate.

Competing for dash / console space with all the rest of the buttons and
dials? That statement alone should be a clue that there is a deeper
problem here.
-
Max
Charleston SC
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To 

Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Dabummer and albore are fixated on suffocating trees.  Where are the 
treehuggers when trees are REALLY in danger?



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 29, 2016 at 11:19 AM
I blame the Feds. The CAFE standards are driving automakers to extremes to
lower fuel consumption, which directly results in more human deaths. From
wikipedia:

"Proposal: On May 19, 2009, President Barack Obama
 proposed a new national fuel
economy program which adopts uniform federal standards to regulate both
fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions while preserving the legal
authorities of DOT, EPA and California. The program covers model year 2012
to model year 2016 and ultimately requires an average fuel economy 
standard

of 35.5 miles per US gallon (6.63 L/100 km; 42.6 mpg-imp) in 2016 (of 39
miles per gallon for cars and 30 mpg for trucks), a jump from the current
average for all vehicles of 25 miles per gallon."

"Agreement: On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with
thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per 
gallon

for cars and light-duty trucks by model year
 2025. He was joined by 
Ford, GM,

Chrysler, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar/Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi,
Nissan, Toyota, and Volvo—which together account for over 90% of all
vehicles sold in the United States—as well as the United Auto Workers
(UAW), and the State of California, who were all participants in the deal.
[44]

The agreement will result in new CAFE regulations for model year 2017-2025
vehicles which were finalized on August 28, 2012.[45]

The major increases in stringency and the changes in the structure of CAFE
create a need for research that incorporates the demand and supply 
sides of

the new vehicle market in a more detailed manner than was needed with
static fuel economy standards.[46]


Volkswagen responded to the July 29, 2011 agreement with the following
statement: "Volkswagen does not endorse the proposal under discussion. It
places an unfairly high burden on passenger cars, while allowing special
compliance flexibility for heavier light trucks. Passenger cars would be
required to achieve 5% annual improvements, and light trucks 3.5% annual
improvements. The largest trucks carry almost no burden for the 2017-2020
timeframe, and are granted numerous ways to mathematically meet targets in
the outlying years without significant real-world gains. The proposal
encourages manufacturers and customers to shift toward larger, less
efficient vehicles, defeating the goal of reduced greenhouse gas 
emissions."

[47]

Additionally, Volkswagen has since approached U.S. law makers about
lowering their proposal to double fuel efficiency for passenger cars by
2025. Volkswagen at the time claimed that the new plan was unfair, but the
company was later revealed to have been systematically cheating emissions
tests. As a result, Volkswagen is one of the only major auto manufacturers
to not sign the agreement that has led to the current proposal from the
Obama administration.[48]

This is yet another example of the law of unintended consequences and the
lobbying power of big corporations coupled with the force of the federal
government, which is literally killing the very people that are 
supposed to

be "saved".
-
Max
Charleston SC



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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Yup.  A shift lever, even if it is only hooked to wires, can be operated 
on instinct/adreneline.  (Shove it in park as soon as it stops after an 
accident.)  that will never happen with a rotary switch on the console.  
There has to be conscious thought (and visual contact) to move it to a 
different setting.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 29, 2016 at 11:09 AM
I can see how that rotary switch isn't too bad, but can you operate 
without

looking? Can you operate it correctly when fear / shock / adrenaline are
in play, like following a collision? With complexity comes risk, and if
each auto maker goes their own way, switching between vehicles becomes a
real chore, maybe too much of a barrier to overcome in an emergency.
Progress in one area doesn't necessarily mean overall progress, we have to
chose our measurements carefully.

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On June 29, 2016 at 7:44 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:The last push-button shifter I saw was on an Edsel.A friend in high school had a 1962 Polara with push button torqueflite transmission.http://www.kingoftheroad.net/1964_Chrysler_New_Yorker_wagon/images/64-chry-tranny-buttons.jpg
 

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Renault Dauphine.

Dan


> On Jun 29, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> The last push-button shifter I saw was on an Edsel.
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The last push-button shifter I saw was on an Edsel.


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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

My SWMBO only ever drove a manual transmission until after I married her,
her Dad would only buy (and allow her to buy) manual transmission cars.
She didn't have a clue about how to drive my '87 wagon when I bought it
(and she was long done with a PHD in music at that point), so I had to give
her a some instruction.  I think she would flat out refuse to drive a car
with anything other than a manual transmission or a MB-80's-style
automatic, until someone could teach her.  She likes the auto better than a
manual now, but I'll bet that in an emergency stop, she'll be trying to
push in the brake pedal and clutch pedal at the same time, which will be a
GOOD thing, but she may shift the lever into something like what feels like
neutral in a manual trans car, which may be a bad thing.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:14 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


> Honestly at some point we have to stop protecting idiots. If you can't
> handle a rotary dial in the event of an accident how would you do with a
> manual shifter?
> -Curt
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Am I missing something? Where are people being killed?
Until recently the fuel economy of most vehicles was abysmal and for small cars 
had slid from the late '80s/early '90s. My '98 Jetta can do 50mpg easily, the 
'05 Golf can do 50 but its a struggle. Actually that reminds me I need to get 
summer tires on the cars
-Curt

  From: Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Meade Dillon 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 12:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"
   
I blame the Feds.  The CAFE standards are driving automakers to extremes to
lower fuel consumption, which directly results in more human deaths.  From
wikipedia:

"Proposal: On May 19, 2009, President Barack Obama
 proposed a new national fuel
economy program which adopts uniform federal standards to regulate both
fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions while preserving the legal
authorities of DOT, EPA and California. The program covers model year 2012
to model year 2016 and ultimately requires an average fuel economy standard
of 35.5 miles per US gallon (6.63 L/100 km; 42.6 mpg-imp) in 2016 (of 39
miles per gallon for cars and 30 mpg for trucks), a jump from the current
average for all vehicles of 25 miles per gallon."

"Agreement: On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with
thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon
for cars and light-duty trucks by model year
 2025. He was joined by Ford, GM,
Chrysler, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar/Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi,
Nissan, Toyota, and Volvo—which together account for over 90% of all
vehicles sold in the United States—as well as the United Auto Workers
(UAW), and the State of California, who were all participants in the deal.
[44]

The agreement will result in new CAFE regulations for model year 2017-2025
vehicles which were finalized on August 28, 2012.[45]

The major increases in stringency and the changes in the structure of CAFE
create a need for research that incorporates the demand and supply sides of
the new vehicle market in a more detailed manner than was needed with
static fuel economy standards.[46]


Volkswagen responded to the July 29, 2011 agreement with the following
statement: "Volkswagen does not endorse the proposal under discussion. It
places an unfairly high burden on passenger cars, while allowing special
compliance flexibility for heavier light trucks. Passenger cars would be
required to achieve 5% annual improvements, and light trucks 3.5% annual
improvements. The largest trucks carry almost no burden for the 2017-2020
timeframe, and are granted numerous ways to mathematically meet targets in
the outlying years without significant real-world gains. The proposal
encourages manufacturers and customers to shift toward larger, less
efficient vehicles, defeating the goal of reduced greenhouse gas emissions."
[47]

Additionally, Volkswagen has since approached U.S. law makers about
lowering their proposal to double fuel efficiency for passenger cars by
2025. Volkswagen at the time claimed that the new plan was unfair, but the
company was later revealed to have been systematically cheating emissions
tests. As a result, Volkswagen is one of the only major auto manufacturers
to not sign the agreement that has led to the current proposal from the
Obama administration.[48]

This is yet another example of the law of unintended consequences and the
lobbying power of big corporations coupled with the force of the federal
government, which is literally killing the very people that are supposed to
be "saved".
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:59 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> THe "gear shift" is now in the hands of software developers, and not
> engineers.  Software developers love to make the use of the software
> obscure, odd, weird, or oddball, so that you need a class to be able to use
> a telephone. (as an example) It is not about functionality, but about how
> to impress other software nerds with how obscure and weird I made this.
>  Look for more "gearshift" deaths, just like "Push and pray" deaths.
>
> The pushbutton gearshift of the 50s was workable, if unreliable.  the new
> pushbutton gearshifts are not workable, reliable or safe.  BEWARE!
>
>
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To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I blame the Feds.  The CAFE standards are driving automakers to extremes to
lower fuel consumption, which directly results in more human deaths.  From
wikipedia:

"Proposal: On May 19, 2009, President Barack Obama
 proposed a new national fuel
economy program which adopts uniform federal standards to regulate both
fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions while preserving the legal
authorities of DOT, EPA and California. The program covers model year 2012
to model year 2016 and ultimately requires an average fuel economy standard
of 35.5 miles per US gallon (6.63 L/100 km; 42.6 mpg-imp) in 2016 (of 39
miles per gallon for cars and 30 mpg for trucks), a jump from the current
average for all vehicles of 25 miles per gallon."

"Agreement: On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with
thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon
for cars and light-duty trucks by model year
 2025. He was joined by Ford, GM,
Chrysler, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar/Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi,
Nissan, Toyota, and Volvo—which together account for over 90% of all
vehicles sold in the United States—as well as the United Auto Workers
(UAW), and the State of California, who were all participants in the deal.
[44]

The agreement will result in new CAFE regulations for model year 2017-2025
vehicles which were finalized on August 28, 2012.[45]

The major increases in stringency and the changes in the structure of CAFE
create a need for research that incorporates the demand and supply sides of
the new vehicle market in a more detailed manner than was needed with
static fuel economy standards.[46]


Volkswagen responded to the July 29, 2011 agreement with the following
statement: "Volkswagen does not endorse the proposal under discussion. It
places an unfairly high burden on passenger cars, while allowing special
compliance flexibility for heavier light trucks. Passenger cars would be
required to achieve 5% annual improvements, and light trucks 3.5% annual
improvements. The largest trucks carry almost no burden for the 2017-2020
timeframe, and are granted numerous ways to mathematically meet targets in
the outlying years without significant real-world gains. The proposal
encourages manufacturers and customers to shift toward larger, less
efficient vehicles, defeating the goal of reduced greenhouse gas emissions."
[47]

Additionally, Volkswagen has since approached U.S. law makers about
lowering their proposal to double fuel efficiency for passenger cars by
2025. Volkswagen at the time claimed that the new plan was unfair, but the
company was later revealed to have been systematically cheating emissions
tests. As a result, Volkswagen is one of the only major auto manufacturers
to not sign the agreement that has led to the current proposal from the
Obama administration.[48]

This is yet another example of the law of unintended consequences and the
lobbying power of big corporations coupled with the force of the federal
government, which is literally killing the very people that are supposed to
be "saved".
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:59 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> THe "gear shift" is now in the hands of software developers, and not
> engineers.  Software developers love to make the use of the software
> obscure, odd, weird, or oddball, so that you need a class to be able to use
> a telephone. (as an example) It is not about functionality, but about how
> to impress other software nerds with how obscure and weird I made this.
>  Look for more "gearshift" deaths, just like "Push and pray" deaths.
>
> The pushbutton gearshift of the 50s was workable, if unreliable.  the new
> pushbutton gearshifts are not workable, reliable or safe.  BEWARE!
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The only complaint I have about the rotary dial is that its the same size and 
shape as the HVAC knobs. When we test drove the eco-Diesel pickup a couple 
years ago it was off to the side of the HVAC and slightly twisted so it wasn't 
in the same plane. The Chrysler 200 I rented a couple months ago had the shift 
dial mostly horizontal and the HVAC mostly vertical so it was pretty easy to 
tell.
In an accident dial left until it stops...

Honestly at some point we have to stop protecting idiots. If you can't handle a 
rotary dial in the event of an accident how would you do with a manual shifter?
-Curt

  From: Meade Dillon 
 To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 12:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"
   
I can see how that rotary switch isn't too bad, but can you operate without 
looking?  Can you operate it correctly when fear / shock / adrenaline are in 
play, like following a collision? With complexity comes risk, and if each auto 
maker goes their own way, switching between vehicles becomes a real chore, 
maybe too much of a barrier to overcome in an emergency.  Progress in one area 
doesn't necessarily mean overall progress, we have to chose our measurements 
carefully.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Most Chrysler products use a rotary switch just like the Land Rover one 
pictured. Its plenty intuitive, you dial up the gear you want. To be easier 
it'd need to do it for you...
-Curt
    




  
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I can see how that rotary switch isn't too bad, but can you operate without
looking?  Can you operate it correctly when fear / shock / adrenaline are
in play, like following a collision? With complexity comes risk, and if
each auto maker goes their own way, switching between vehicles becomes a
real chore, maybe too much of a barrier to overcome in an emergency.
Progress in one area doesn't necessarily mean overall progress, we have to
chose our measurements carefully.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Most Chrysler products use a rotary switch just like the Land Rover one
> pictured. Its plenty intuitive, you dial up the gear you want. To be easier
> it'd need to do it for you...
> -Curt
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Most Chrysler products use a rotary switch just like the Land Rover one 
pictured. Its plenty intuitive, you dial up the gear you want. To be easier 
it'd need to do it for you...
-Curt

  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 12:59 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"
   
Yep!  the pushbutton gearshift has gone to the absurd!  A simple lever 
still works best, even if it is only and electric switch with detents.  
At the auction I had to drive some of those miserable goofy things.  The 
one pictured as lan drover, with the rotary switch was in something I 
drove, but not a lan drover.  MB is right there with the absurdity, but 
at least theirs is somewhat easy to decipher.

But a multimillion$$$ lawsuit won't stop them from using stupid, 
non-intuitive gagets in place of a gear shift.  All the millions toada 
had to pay out for the push and pray did not slow down the use of push 
and pray.

THe "gear shift" is now in the hands of software developers, and not 
engineers.  Software developers love to make the use of the software 
obscure, odd, weird, or oddball, so that you need a class to be able to 
use a telephone. (as an example) It is not about functionality, but 
about how to impress other software nerds with how obscure and weird I 
made this.  Look for more "gearshift" deaths, just like "Push and pray" 
deaths.

The pushbutton gearshift of the 50s was workable, if unreliable.  the 
new pushbutton gearshifts are not workable, reliable or safe.  BEWARE!

Buy a 123, 124 or 126, or 116, or 108-115 instead!

> Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
> June 28, 2016 at 12:03 PM
> PRNDL is dead, long live PRNDL!
>
> http://www.autonews.com/article/20160627/OEM11/306279980/array-of-levers-and-dials-complicates-a-once-simple-function
>
> I would think that if I needed to read the manual just to figure out 
> how to
> shift the transmission, I have just demonstrated that the car (or truck or
> whatever) is too complex and a hazard to operate.
>
> Competing for dash / console space with all the rest of the buttons and
> dials? That statement alone should be a clue that there is a deeper
> problem here.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>

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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Driving the ML blueytechie the other day I shut it off (pushed a button) 
while it was still in "D" (push a lever sorta down) and it appeared not 
to then go into "P" since I had not pushed the button on the end of the 
lever to tell it to "P" before pushing it off. It seemed to still be in 
something other than "P" though no indication of what ("N"?).  I think I 
might then have pushed the "P" button at the end of the "shift" lever or 
pushed the parking brake button to set the brake (I looked for an actual 
pedal or mechanical lever but alas there was no such thing) or both as 
it was on a slight incline anyway, whichever it was it stopped rolling 
on the incline.


It also has steering wheel paddles, the functions of which I have not 
bothered to learn yet as it seems to know what it needs to do to move 
the thing once I tell it to "D" or "R"  using the little "shift" lever 
and push the "throttle" pedal switch lever thing. All the various 
electronic nannies seem to get their shit together though when I push 
the "throttle" switch lever pedal as it moves with considerable alacrity 
and becomes quite entertaining -- not bad for a dizzel.


The brakes on it (brake switch lever pedal) are touchy as hell too, 
doesn't take much to do a faceplant in the windshield.


One thing I have noticed, and it is mildly annoying, is that it seems to 
either downshift or put on the JakeBrake when one lets off the 
"throttle" -- it seems to bog down almost like applying the brake switch 
lever pedal, not coasting.  That might be some function of the 
transmission downshifting or TC staying locked up or something, I don't 
know.  Or maybe the German nannies just know what I want to do, or 
should be doing, and do it for me.


I am hoping for the Benzites also to get busted for monkeying with the 
dizzel nannies so I can get some money from them.


--JC


On 6/29/16 12:59 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Yep! the pushbutton gearshift has gone to the absurd!  A simple lever 
still works best, even if it is only and electric switch with 
detents.  At the auction I had to drive some of those miserable goofy 
things.  The one pictured as lan drover, with the rotary switch was in 
something I drove, but not a lan drover.  MB is right there with the 
absurdity, but at least theirs is somewhat easy to decipher.


But a multimillion$$$ lawsuit won't stop them from using stupid, 
non-intuitive gagets in place of a gear shift.  All the millions toada 
had to pay out for the push and pray did not slow down the use of push 
and pray.


THe "gear shift" is now in the hands of software developers, and not 
engineers.  Software developers love to make the use of the software 
obscure, odd, weird, or oddball, so that you need a class to be able 
to use a telephone. (as an example) It is not about functionality, but 
about how to impress other software nerds with how obscure and weird I 
made this.   Look for more "gearshift" deaths, just like "Push and 
pray" deaths.


The pushbutton gearshift of the 50s was workable, if unreliable. the 
new pushbutton gearshifts are not workable, reliable or safe. BEWARE!


Buy a 123, 124 or 126, or 116, or 108-115 instead!


Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 28, 2016 at 12:03 PM
PRNDL is dead, long live PRNDL!

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160627/OEM11/306279980/array-of-levers-and-dials-complicates-a-once-simple-function 



I would think that if I needed to read the manual just to figure out 
how to
shift the transmission, I have just demonstrated that the car (or 
truck or

whatever) is too complex and a hazard to operate.

Competing for dash / console space with all the rest of the buttons and
dials? That statement alone should be a clue that there is a deeper
problem here.
-
Max
Charleston SC
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--
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Yep!  the pushbutton gearshift has gone to the absurd!  A simple lever 
still works best, even if it is only and electric switch with detents.  
At the auction I had to drive some of those miserable goofy things.  The 
one pictured as lan drover, with the rotary switch was in something I 
drove, but not a lan drover.  MB is right there with the absurdity, but 
at least theirs is somewhat easy to decipher.


But a multimillion$$$ lawsuit won't stop them from using stupid, 
non-intuitive gagets in place of a gear shift.  All the millions toada 
had to pay out for the push and pray did not slow down the use of push 
and pray.


THe "gear shift" is now in the hands of software developers, and not 
engineers.  Software developers love to make the use of the software 
obscure, odd, weird, or oddball, so that you need a class to be able to 
use a telephone. (as an example) It is not about functionality, but 
about how to impress other software nerds with how obscure and weird I 
made this.   Look for more "gearshift" deaths, just like "Push and pray" 
deaths.


The pushbutton gearshift of the 50s was workable, if unreliable.  the 
new pushbutton gearshifts are not workable, reliable or safe.  BEWARE!


Buy a 123, 124 or 126, or 116, or 108-115 instead!


Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 28, 2016 at 12:03 PM
PRNDL is dead, long live PRNDL!

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160627/OEM11/306279980/array-of-levers-and-dials-complicates-a-once-simple-function

I would think that if I needed to read the manual just to figure out 
how to

shift the transmission, I have just demonstrated that the car (or truck or
whatever) is too complex and a hazard to operate.

Competing for dash / console space with all the rest of the buttons and
dials? That statement alone should be a clue that there is a deeper
problem here.
-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex shifter?"

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

On the other hand if you're too stupid to make sure you're in park before you 
get out of the car you probably need to be weeded out of the gene pool...
-Curt

  From: Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes  
Cc: Meade Dillon 
 Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:03 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] One for Curly, or "How can automakers design a more complex 
shifter?"
   
PRNDL is dead, long live PRNDL!

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160627/OEM11/306279980/array-of-levers-and-dials-complicates-a-once-simple-function

I would think that if I needed to read the manual just to figure out how to
shift the transmission, I have just demonstrated that the car (or truck or
whatever) is too complex and a hazard to operate.

Competing for dash / console space with all the rest of the buttons and
dials?  That statement alone should be a clue that there is a deeper
problem here.
-
Max
Charleston SC
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