Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

A real paradox - Barcelona is one of the coolest, most vibrant cities on
the planet.


In 1992 or all the time?

Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

They’re a coop. That’s why they’re so accommodating.  If they were we a state 
regulated electric utility, they wouldn’t be giving him the time of day, much 
less purchasing his power.

If you read the article I linked to, it highlights one of the weasely things 
the legislators are doing to try and stay above the fray while keeping the 
utilities happy - You want to force me to buy power?  Sure!  Only make me pay 
$0.02-$0.03 a KwH rather than the rate I make you pay.  That way they can say 
they’re doing what’s expected of them for point-of-use but making it 
financially unattractive for the consumer.

Dan


> On Dec 4, 2015, at 10:52 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Here's what I found on Clay Electrics website: 
> 
> "Member Generated Power
> Seminole Electric Cooperative, Inc., through Clay Electric, will purchase 
> electricity generated and delivered to Clay Electric from any of its members' 
> qualifying small photovoltaic systems of 100kW or less, under the provisions 
> of section 25 of the (PDF)
> 
> Looks like Clay Electric is one of the few power companies in Florida that 
> buy back excess solar power.
> Gerry
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff wrote:
> They’re a coop. That’s why they’re so accommodating.  If they were we a state 
> regulated electric utility, they wouldn’t be giving him the time of day, much 
> less purchasing his power.
> If you read the article I linked to, it highlights one of the weasely things 
> the legislators are doing to try and stay above the fray while keeping the 
> utilities happy - You want to force me to buy power?  Sure!  Only make me pay 
> $0.02-$0.03 a KwH rather than the rate I make you pay.  That way they can say 
> they’re doing what’s expected of them for point-of-use but making it 
> financially unattractive for the consumer.
.

I beg to disagree. Just because a Florida electric company is a coop doesn't 
mean they treat their customers well and/or give rebates.


1. Escambia River Electric Cooperative
2. Choctawhatchee Electric Cooperative
3. West Florida Electric Cooperative
4. Gulf Coast Electric Cooperative
5. Talquin Electric Cooperative
6. Tri-County Electric Cooperative
7. Suwannee Valley Electric Cooperative
8. Okefenoke Electric Cooperative
9. Clay Electric Cooperative
10. Central Florida Electric Cooperative
11. Sumter Electric Cooperative
12. Withlacoochee Electric Cooperative
13. Peace River Electric Cooperative
14. Glades Electric Cooperative
15. Florida Keys Electric Cooperative
16. PowerSouth Energy Cooperative
17. Seminole Electric Cooperative 

These are the members of the Florida Electric Cooperatives Association.
Most do not give rebates, and most point out that the state program, which was 
a joke, has ended.

The reason Manfreds coop gives rebates is that they operate in the same county 
as Gainesvilles GRU which is far to the left of most coops. If they didn't the 
left wing activists at UF would be giving them a fit, and the GRU might be 
crossing their lines to supply power to county residents.

Read this and you'll understand:

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20081013/NEWS/810140283

When we moved to Florida 70 years ago the state government, which was dominated 
by the Democratic Party, was gloriously corrupt.
Idealistic young people like myself at that time were frustrated because 
nothing could be done about it.
Now, the Republican Party dominates the state government, and the state 
government is still gloriously corrupt.
Idealistic young people like yourself are frustrated because nothing can be 
done about it.
The moral of that story is that anytime a political party has a lock on a 
majority of local elections there will be serious corruption.
Note: There were "democratic" periods when neither party dominated, but even 
then entrenched corruption, such as with power companies, persisted.
(Off the soapbox)
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[MG via Mercedes]

Yep, but the bad part is that they still don't pay as much as 
they charge and you still have to pay the fuel surcharge on all 
the electricity you use from the line even if you replace it 
later, or so I was told by one person. I have gotten different 
stories including that the electricity usage cancels out with the 
replacement and there is no extra charge. Hard to tell what it is 
till it all starts.


Manfred


Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 22:52:42 -0500
From: "arche...@embarqmail.com" 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 

Here's what I found on Clay Electrics website: 


"Member Generated Power
Seminole Electric Cooperative, Inc., through Clay Electric, will purchase 
electricity generated and delivered to Clay Electric from any of its members' 
qualifying small photovoltaic systems of 100kW or less, under the provisions of 
section 25 of the (PDF)

Looks like Clay Electric is one of the few power companies in Florida that buy 
back excess solar power.
Gerry




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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Curly wrote:
> We needa be more like Yurp!

We need to re-jig our entire mind about electric.
Long wires with few taps? - absolutely unaffordable.
Numerous, i.e. perhaps at every residence - generation facility or solar panels.
Then think some other pattern of appliances such as those on motorhomes.
yada, yada - we can do much better than centralized utility systems uniformity.
Variation of system and greater ingenuity and invention will make our
dull economy turn to life.
We are in straight jackets regarding all arenas of market and culture.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Having spent a little time with solar I can tell you that if we all had to 
generate our own electricity we'd do a lot better on the conservation front. 
Really makes you pay attention.
-Curt

  From: Mountain Man via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Mountain Man <maontin@gmail.com>
 Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2015 5:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!
   
Curly wrote:
> We needa be more like Yurp!

We need to re-jig our entire mind about electric.
Long wires with few taps? - absolutely unaffordable.
Numerous, i.e. perhaps at every residence - generation facility or solar panels.
Then think some other pattern of appliances such as those on motorhomes.
yada, yada - we can do much better than centralized utility systems uniformity.
Variation of system and greater ingenuity and invention will make our
dull economy turn to life.
We are in straight jackets regarding all arenas of market and culture.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Solar companies go bankrupt because the Chinese price their panels below cost 
of production...
-Curt

  From: Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Curly McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 12:24 AM
 Subject: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!
   
This relates to a couple of other threads:

We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing 
productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put 
solar panels  on top of graves!

http://www.therebel.media/paris_climate_conference_spain_s_abengoa_solar_goes_bankrupt

Pay heed to the connection between utility cost (manipulated by the 
goobers) and manufacturing.



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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Can you produce for your own use?

Or put another way, if you have the power co pull the meter and cut 
the line, can anyone stop you from putting up solar elect. panels? 
Or how long would it be until the gestapo makes you take em down. 
Maybe ALCLU would provide you a lawyer.




(oops, forgot they are not interested in "civil liberties.")

Hawaii has lotsa people who live off grid.  Not much on Oahu, but on 
Hawaii and other islands, off grid is not unusual.  The utilities are 
just not available.  There is a lot of solar there.



What about the lobbyists for the power utilities who get laws passed 
that make it impossible to use solar at your home?


The "Sunshine State" has some of the most restrictive laws regarding 
solar power in the nation. I can go totally off grid, but I can't 
produce and sell any of that power.


Dan who would go solar in a second, Chinee or not



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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

What about the lobbyists for the power utilities who get laws passed that make 
it impossible to use solar at your home?

The "Sunshine State" has some of the most restrictive laws regarding solar 
power in the nation. I can go totally off grid, but I can't produce and sell 
any of that power.

Dan who would go solar in a second, Chinee or not

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 4, 2015, at 10:13 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> That is probably true for companies that make the panels, but once the panels 
> are installed and operating, the cost of new panels has little to no 
> influence on the operating cost.   This spanish company appears to be an 
> operator.  Nothing is said about it being a producer of panels.
> 
> 
>> Solar companies go bankrupt because the Chinese price their panels below 
>> cost of production...
>> -Curt
>> 
>>  From: Curly McLain via Mercedes 
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Curly McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 12:24 AM
>> Subject: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!
>>  This relates to a couple of other threads:
>> 
>> We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing
>> productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put
>> solar panels  on top of graves!
>> 
>> http://www.therebel.media/paris_climate_conference_spain_s_abengoa_solar_goes_bankrupt
>> 
>> Pay heed to the connection between utility cost (manipulated by the
>> goobers) and manufacturing.
> 
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> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

That is probably true for companies that make the panels, but once 
the panels are installed and operating, the cost of new panels has 
little to no influence on the operating cost.   This spanish company 
appears to be an operator.  Nothing is said about it being a producer 
of panels.



Solar companies go bankrupt because the Chinese price their panels 
below cost of production...

-Curt

  From: Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Curly McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 12:24 AM
 Subject: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!
  
This relates to a couple of other threads:


We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing
productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put
solar panels  on top of graves!

http://www.therebel.media/paris_climate_conference_spain_s_abengoa_solar_goes_bankrupt

Pay heed to the connection between utility cost (manipulated by the
goobers) and manufacturing.



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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Sorta reminds me of when IRS seized a little place in Nevada, called "The
Mustang Ranch" .. which was making money hand over ... ehhhmmm well fist"
selling whiskey and renting women. So much money, IRS said it wasn't paying
enough taxes...

Government took it over and lost so much money selling whiskey and whores
they had to close the place down.. Yep... imagine that... after over 75 yrs
of being a profitable business.. 1 yr. of government oversight... closed..

I guess we just need more government to make it work.


Sadly, although the social/marx/comun/ists claim "capitalism doesn't 
work", we have not had a free market capitalist economy since 1913 
for sure, and effectively since about 1900.  This is because of 
goobermnt intervention and manipulation.  (Picking "winners and 
losers" based on political donations)


Why was 1913 a pivotal date?

[A jar of Andrew's cat poop pepper jam for the first to come up with 
the right answer!]


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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Sorta reminds me of when IRS seized a little place in Nevada, called "The
Mustang Ranch" .. which was making money hand over ... ehhhmmm well fist"
selling whiskey and renting women. So much money, IRS said it wasn't paying
enough taxes...

Government took it over and lost so much money selling whiskey and whores
they had to close the place down.. Yep... imagine that... after over 75 yrs
of being a profitable business.. 1 yr. of government oversight... closed..

I guess we just need more government to make it work.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This relates to a couple of other threads:
>
> We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing
> productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put solar
> panels  on top of graves!
>
>
> http://www.therebel.media/paris_climate_conference_spain_s_abengoa_solar_goes_bankrupt
>
> Pay heed to the connection between utility cost (manipulated by the
> goobers) and manufacturing.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[MG via Mercedes]

I don't get it. I'm up in Alachua co. and am in the process of 
installing a solar array that will put unused electricity back 
into the grid. At the end of the year if I have put in more then 
I have used they will send me a check. Sounds to me like I will 
be selling electricity to the power company. Possibly local laws 
in Tampa are different? Or have you not checked recently?


Manfred


Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2015 10:27:22 -0500
From: Dan Penoff 

What about the lobbyists for the power utilities who get laws 
passed that make it impossible to use solar at your home?


The "Sunshine State" has some of the most restrictive laws 
regarding solar power in the nation. I can go totally off grid, 
but I can't produce and sell any of that power.


Dan who would go solar in a second, Chinee or not

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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

I believe I am correct in saying the Spanish company totally invested in
the focused reflector/hot salt , heat exchange to steam turbine generator
system of "solar power" 

Huge up front investment required for each installation. Gigantic reliance
on government grants to fund those installations all over the world..

In each case... cost overruns out the wazzz, [government project,
right?] and once completed... VERY poor return per sunlight/electricity.
Goals vs Result = Failure to produce.

I may be painting with an overly broad brush, but I believe it to be the
picture. Spanish government is broke and pulled continuation of grants..
Other worldwide installations/government grants ran out, were not
extended..

Bankruptcy follows because it cost more to make power than power is
produced.



Hmmm,  kinda sounds like onea bumster's buddies.   solyndra?   535 
million in the bud's pocket in exchange fer raising a couple mil fer 
the bumsta's campaign.   pretty good investment, aye?


Almost 27 to 1.  Sign me UP!


Well, yeah, he had to spend a few mil to make it look like a 
legitimate attempt to be in biz.  So, its only 25 to 1.


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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

1913:  Sixteenth Amendment (income tax).

-MMM-
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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Ding!  Ding!  Ding!  Ding!   Give that man a jar of Andrew's 
(in)famous cat poop jelly!






1913:  Sixteenth Amendment (income tax).

-MMM-
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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yes, you can produce for your own consumption. The utilities just don't allow 
or heavily restrict point-of-use. About the only way it's been gotten around is 
on a scale of a complete housing development (and quite successfully at that.)

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 4, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Can you produce for your own use?
> 
> Or put another way, if you have the power co pull the meter and cut the line, 
> can anyone stop you from putting up solar elect. panels? Or how long would it 
> be until the gestapo makes you take em down. Maybe ALCLU would provide you a 
> lawyer.
> 
> 
> 
> (oops, forgot they are not interested in "civil liberties.")
> 
> Hawaii has lotsa people who live off grid.  Not much on Oahu, but on Hawaii 
> and other islands, off grid is not unusual.  The utilities are just not 
> available.  There is a lot of solar there.
> 
> 
>> What about the lobbyists for the power utilities who get laws passed that 
>> make it impossible to use solar at your home?
>> 
>> The "Sunshine State" has some of the most restrictive laws regarding solar 
>> power in the nation. I can go totally off grid, but I can't produce and sell 
>> any of that power.
>> 
>> Dan who would go solar in a second, Chinee or not
>> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

>From an industrial and solar perspective, Germany is more comparable to the 
>U.S. than Spain, and their installed solar base is significant and expanding. 
>It will be interesting to see how their plans to continue going heavily 
>solar/wind work out; assuming that another Schicklgruber* doesn't arise from 
>their growing Nazi-like parties.
Gerry

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/06/opinion/l-hitler-never-really-was-schicklgruber-016390.html
~

G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:

> Sorta reminds me of when IRS seized a little place in Nevada, called "The
> Mustang Ranch" .. which was making money hand over ... ehhhmmm well fist"
> selling whiskey and renting women. So much money, IRS said it wasn't paying
> enough taxes...
> 
> Government took it over and lost so much money selling whiskey and whores
> they had to close the place down.. Yep... imagine that... after over 75 yrs
> of being a profitable business.. 1 yr. of government oversight... closed..
> 
> I guess we just need more government to make it work.
> 
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > This relates to a couple of other threads:
> >
> > We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing
> > productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put solar
> > panels  on top of graves!
> >
> >
> > http://www.therebel.media/paris_climate_conference_spain_s_abengoa_solar_goes_bankrupt
> >
> > Pay heed to the connection between utility cost (manipulated by the
> > goobers) and manufacturing.
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4477/2 - Release Date: 12/04/15
> 


-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Germany is probably a lot more comparable to the US than Spain in most ways 
although I suppose we're always chasing Spain on political corruption...
-Curt
  From: archer75--- via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: "arche...@embarqmail.com" <arche...@embarqmail.com>
 Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 11:34 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!
   
From an industrial and solar perspective, Germany is more comparable to the 
U.S. than Spain, and their installed solar base is significant and expanding. 
It will be interesting to see how their plans to continue going heavily 
solar/wind work out; assuming that another Schicklgruber* doesn't arise from 
their growing Nazi-like parties.
Gerry

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/06/opinion/l-hitler-never-really-was-schicklgruber-016390.html
~

G Mann via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Sorta reminds me of when IRS seized a little place in Nevada, called "The
> Mustang Ranch" .. which was making money hand over ... ehhhmmm well fist"
> selling whiskey and renting women. So much money, IRS said it wasn't paying
> enough taxes...
> 
> Government took it over and lost so much money selling whiskey and whores
> they had to close the place down.. Yep... imagine that... after over 75 yrs
> of being a profitable business.. 1 yr. of government oversight... closed..
> 
> I guess we just need more government to make it work.
> 
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > This relates to a couple of other threads:
> >
> > We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing
> > productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put solar
> > panels  on top of graves!
> >
> >
> > http://www.therebel.media/paris_climate_conference_spain_s_abengoa_solar_goes_bankrupt
> >
> > Pay heed to the connection between utility cost (manipulated by the
> > goobers) and manufacturing.
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I believe I am correct in saying the Spanish company totally invested in
the focused reflector/hot salt , heat exchange to steam turbine generator
system of "solar power" 

Huge up front investment required for each installation. Gigantic reliance
on government grants to fund those installations all over the world..

In each case... cost overruns out the wazzz, [government project,
right?] and once completed... VERY poor return per sunlight/electricity.
Goals vs Result = Failure to produce.

I may be painting with an overly broad brush, but I believe it to be the
picture. Spanish government is broke and pulled continuation of grants..
Other worldwide installations/government grants ran out, were not
extended..

Bankruptcy follows because it cost more to make power than power is
produced.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Germany is probably a lot more comparable to the US than Spain in most
> ways although I suppose we're always chasing Spain on political
> corruption...
> -Curt
>   From: archer75--- via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: "arche...@embarqmail.com" <arche...@embarqmail.com>
>  Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 11:34 AM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!
>
> From an industrial and solar perspective, Germany is more comparable to
> the U.S. than Spain, and their installed solar base is significant and
> expanding. It will be interesting to see how their plans to continue going
> heavily solar/wind work out; assuming that another Schicklgruber* doesn't
> arise from their growing Nazi-like parties.
> Gerry
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/06/opinion/l-hitler-never-really-was-schicklgruber-016390.html
> ~
>
> G Mann via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorta reminds me of when IRS seized a little place in Nevada, called "The
> > Mustang Ranch" .. which was making money hand over ... ehhhmmm well fist"
> > selling whiskey and renting women. So much money, IRS said it wasn't
> paying
> > enough taxes...
> >
> > Government took it over and lost so much money selling whiskey and whores
> > they had to close the place down.. Yep... imagine that... after over 75
> yrs
> > of being a profitable business.. 1 yr. of government oversight...
> closed..
> >
> > I guess we just need more government to make it work.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > This relates to a couple of other threads:
> > >
> > > We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing
> > > productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put
> solar
> > > panels  on top of graves!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.therebel.media/paris_climate_conference_spain_s_abengoa_solar_goes_bankrupt
> > >
> > > Pay heed to the connection between utility cost (manipulated by the
> > > goobers) and manufacturing.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4477/2 - Release Date:
> 12/04/15
> >
>
>
> --
> arche...@embarqmail.com <arche...@embarqmail.com>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

A real paradox - Barcelona is one of the coolest, most vibrant cities on
the planet.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We were in Spain a few years back and driving around here and there, and
> at one point on the autobahn or whatever they call it, I see a sign for
> Something Nuclearismo or some such, and sure enough a coupla km down the
> road we pass a nuke just kinda sitting out in the middle of nothing.  It
> had fences and all, but not much else anywhere around.  They also had solar
> panels stuck all over the place and wind machines, most of which were not
> spinning.  At some place we passed a construction project where they were
> building another high-speed train line, not sure where it was coming from
> or going to, or how the sparsity of population centers out that way would
> provide any reasonable revenues (not that that was probably a goal).
>
> My daughter did a semester there, and said the whole place was kinda sad,
> really high unemployment among the younger people, no particular view of
> the future.
>
> --R
>
> On 12/4/15 11:57 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I believe I am correct in saying the Spanish company totally invested in
>> the focused reflector/hot salt , heat exchange to steam turbine generator
>> system of "solar power" 
>>
>> Huge up front investment required for each installation. Gigantic reliance
>> on government grants to fund those installations all over the world..
>>
>> In each case... cost overruns out the wazzz, [government project,
>> right?] and once completed... VERY poor return per sunlight/electricity.
>> Goals vs Result = Failure to produce.
>>
>> I may be painting with an overly broad brush, but I believe it to be the
>> picture. Spanish government is broke and pulled continuation of grants..
>> Other worldwide installations/government grants ran out, were not
>> extended..
>>
>> Bankruptcy follows because it cost more to make power than power is
>> produced.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Germany is probably a lot more comparable to the US than Spain in most
>>> ways although I suppose we're always chasing Spain on political
>>> corruption...
>>> -Curt
>>>    From: archer75--- via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>   To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> Cc: "arche...@embarqmail.com" <arche...@embarqmail.com>
>>>   Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 11:34 AM
>>>   Subject: Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!
>>>
>>>  From an industrial and solar perspective, Germany is more comparable to
>>> the U.S. than Spain, and their installed solar base is significant and
>>> expanding. It will be interesting to see how their plans to continue
>>> going
>>> heavily solar/wind work out; assuming that another Schicklgruber* doesn't
>>> arise from their growing Nazi-like parties.
>>> Gerry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/06/opinion/l-hitler-never-really-was-schicklgruber-016390.html
>>> ~
>>>
>>> G Mann via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorta reminds me of when IRS seized a little place in Nevada, called "The
>>>> Mustang Ranch" .. which was making money hand over ... ehhhmmm well
>>>> fist"
>>>> selling whiskey and renting women. So much money, IRS said it wasn't
>>>>
>>> paying
>>>
>>>> enough taxes...
>>>>
>>>> Government took it over and lost so much money selling whiskey and
>>>> whores
>>>> they had to close the place down.. Yep... imagine that... after over 75
>>>>
>>> yrs
>>>
>>>> of being a profitable business.. 1 yr. of government oversight...
>>>>
>>> closed..
>>>
>>>> I guess we just need more government to make it work.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
>>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This relates to a couple of other threads:
>>>>>
>>>>> We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing
>>>>> productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put
>>>>>
>>>> solar
>>>
>>>> panels  on top of

Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Hopefully you got into the solar FIT program before it stopped accepting new 
members. FIT, and similar programs throughout the state, may have been stopped 
from accepting new members by the state government.

https://www.gru.com/AboutGRU/Content/SolarFIT.aspx

Gerry
~
> I don't get it. I'm up in Alachua co. and am in the process of 
> installing a solar array that will put unused electricity back 
> into the grid. At the end of the year if I have put in more then 
> I have used they will send me a check. Sounds to me like I will 
> be selling electricity to the power company. Possibly local laws 
> in Tampa are different? Or have you not checked recently?
> 
> Manfred
> 
> 
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2015 10:27:22 -0500
> From: Dan Penoff 
> 
> What about the lobbyists for the power utilities who get laws 
> passed that make it impossible to use solar at your home?
> 
> The "Sunshine State" has some of the most restrictive laws 
> regarding solar power in the nation. I can go totally off grid, 
> but I can't produce and sell any of that power.
> 
> Dan who would go solar in a second, Chinee or not
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4477/2 - Release Date: 12/04/15
> 


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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

We were in Spain a few years back and driving around here and there, and 
at one point on the autobahn or whatever they call it, I see a sign for 
Something Nuclearismo or some such, and sure enough a coupla km down the 
road we pass a nuke just kinda sitting out in the middle of nothing.  It 
had fences and all, but not much else anywhere around.  They also had 
solar panels stuck all over the place and wind machines, most of which 
were not spinning.  At some place we passed a construction project where 
they were building another high-speed train line, not sure where it was 
coming from or going to, or how the sparsity of population centers out 
that way would provide any reasonable revenues (not that that was 
probably a goal).


My daughter did a semester there, and said the whole place was kinda 
sad, really high unemployment among the younger people, no particular 
view of the future.


--R

On 12/4/15 11:57 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

I believe I am correct in saying the Spanish company totally invested in
the focused reflector/hot salt , heat exchange to steam turbine generator
system of "solar power" 

Huge up front investment required for each installation. Gigantic reliance
on government grants to fund those installations all over the world..

In each case... cost overruns out the wazzz, [government project,
right?] and once completed... VERY poor return per sunlight/electricity.
Goals vs Result = Failure to produce.

I may be painting with an overly broad brush, but I believe it to be the
picture. Spanish government is broke and pulled continuation of grants..
Other worldwide installations/government grants ran out, were not
extended..

Bankruptcy follows because it cost more to make power than power is
produced.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Germany is probably a lot more comparable to the US than Spain in most
ways although I suppose we're always chasing Spain on political
corruption...
-Curt
   From: archer75--- via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "arche...@embarqmail.com" <arche...@embarqmail.com>
  Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 11:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

 From an industrial and solar perspective, Germany is more comparable to
the U.S. than Spain, and their installed solar base is significant and
expanding. It will be interesting to see how their plans to continue going
heavily solar/wind work out; assuming that another Schicklgruber* doesn't
arise from their growing Nazi-like parties.
Gerry


http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/06/opinion/l-hitler-never-really-was-schicklgruber-016390.html
~

G Mann via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Sorta reminds me of when IRS seized a little place in Nevada, called "The
Mustang Ranch" .. which was making money hand over ... ehhhmmm well fist"
selling whiskey and renting women. So much money, IRS said it wasn't

paying

enough taxes...

Government took it over and lost so much money selling whiskey and whores
they had to close the place down.. Yep... imagine that... after over 75

yrs

of being a profitable business.. 1 yr. of government oversight...

closed..

I guess we just need more government to make it work.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


This relates to a couple of other threads:

We needa be more like Yurp!  Seems Spain, that model of manufacturing
productivity, has lotsa solar.  There ya go Andrew!  They even put

solar

panels  on top of graves!




http://www.therebel.media/paris_climate_conference_spain_s_abengoa_solar_goes_bankrupt

Pay heed to the connection between utility cost (manipulated by the
goobers) and manufacturing.

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4477/2 - Release Date:

12/04/15

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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[MG via Mercedes]

Ah so it is your local company that is doing you. Here the 
Gainesville regional utilities even had a thing going where they 
helped buy you a system but that went out a couple of years ago 
and I'm not in Gainesville anyway. I guess that's why all those 
people are out trying to get a law passed about the right to be 
allowed to put a system up. I keep telling them that we have that 
right already but maybe not everywhere and it looks like it may 
not last unless something is done about the lobbyists from the 
electric companies.


Manfred


Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2015 13:17:24 -0500
From: Dan Penoff 


I don?t know about your area, but around here it?s TECO, or Tampa 
Electric Company, which was just purchased yesterday by a 
Canadian firm.  They used to have a lottery at the beginning of 
the year for a fixed number of permits they would issue to 
purchase point-of-use power.  I don?t know the number but the 
word was that it was pretty small, maybe a few hundred at most.


They stopped the program this year, so it?s not even an option at 
this point.


The state laws are involved in some means as well:

http://fcir.org/2015/04/03/in-sunshine-state-big-energy-blocks-solar-power/

Dan

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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[MG via Mercedes]

No that doesn't apply to me. I am a part of the Clay Electric Coop.

Manfred


Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 17:14:30 -0500
From: "arche...@embarqmail.com" 

Hopefully you got into the solar FIT program before it stopped accepting new 
members. FIT, and similar programs throughout the state, may have been stopped 
from accepting new members by the state government.

https://www.gru.com/AboutGRU/Content/SolarFIT.aspx

Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Here's what I found on Clay Electrics website: 

"Member Generated Power
Seminole Electric Cooperative, Inc., through Clay Electric, will purchase 
electricity generated and delivered to Clay Electric from any of its members' 
qualifying small photovoltaic systems of 100kW or less, under the provisions of 
section 25 of the (PDF)

Looks like Clay Electric is one of the few power companies in Florida that buy 
back excess solar power.
Gerry


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Re: [MBZ] We needa be more like yurp!

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I don’t know about your area, but around here it’s TECO, or Tampa Electric 
Company, which was just purchased yesterday by a Canadian firm.  They used to 
have a lottery at the beginning of the year for a fixed number of permits they 
would issue to purchase point-of-use power.  I don’t know the number but the 
word was that it was pretty small, maybe a few hundred at most.

They stopped the program this year, so it’s not even an option at this point.

The state laws are involved in some means as well:

http://fcir.org/2015/04/03/in-sunshine-state-big-energy-blocks-solar-power/

Dan

 
> On Dec 4, 2015, at 12:19 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> I don't get it. I'm up in Alachua co. and am in the process of installing a 
> solar array that will put unused electricity back into the grid. At the end 
> of the year if I have put in more then I have used they will send me a check. 
> Sounds to me like I will be selling electricity to the power company. 
> Possibly local laws in Tampa are different? Or have you not checked recently?
> 
> Manfred
> 
> 
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2015 10:27:22 -0500
> From: Dan Penoff 
> 
> What about the lobbyists for the power utilities who get laws passed that 
> make it impossible to use solar at your home?
> 
> The "Sunshine State" has some of the most restrictive laws regarding solar 
> power in the nation. I can go totally off grid, but I can't produce and sell 
> any of that power.
> 
> Dan who would go solar in a second, Chinee or not
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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