Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged illegal behavior
Mark, Stefan and Martin have completely refused the refund despite their written email promise of full refund. I tried very hard to work out a solution with them. IMCA board members tried the same after thoroughly investigating the complaint. It’s clear that Stefan and Martin were blinded by their greed. I am hopeful that you and others will get them to see the light and bring them back to ethical behavior. I have no idea why someone will refuse a refund after their promise unless they sold goods that were so bad that they are unlikely to find another sucker for it. Warm regards, naveen Naveen Jain Founder - Moon Express, Intelius, InfoSpace Board of Trustee – X Prize Foundation, Singularity University http://www.linkedin.com/in/naveenjainintelius --- From: Mark's Meteorites [mailto:m...@meteorites.cc] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 9:03 AM To: Matthias Bärmann Cc: Naveen Jain; MexicoDoug; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged illegal behavior To me it sounds like someone has, at best, been naive and not done their homework. Caveat emptor applies when you're buying a pint of milk; it certainly applies if you're ponying up a quarter million bucks. A quarter million dollars on something, mail order, for something only viewed in photographs? For real? I think that this discussion should make people think carefully about their deals - both from whom they buy, and to whom they sell. Nonetheless - as Farmer says, either they did or they didn't refuse to refund. IF they didn't (minus a reasonable handling deduction) then they're in the wrong. Mark On 2 Aug 2011, at 15:19, Matthias Bärmann wrote: Mr. Jain wrote: I am very new to the meteorite collection ... 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification (...) He also wrote: I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesnâ•˙t look right to me (...) makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff (...) Sounds somehow strange, no? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged illegal behavior
My English is unfortunately not perfect and I either don't want to give the gobshite, but as this causa is serious enough: Mark wrote: (...) either they did or they didn't refuse to refund. IF they didn't (minus a reasonable handling deduction) then they're in the wrong. I don't believe that this is really what you wanted to express, Mark. Apart from this I've noticed here on the list the quotation of Martin Altmann, assuring refund in the case that pieces wouldn't be accepted from the recipient. I have n o t noticed, as a second step, any quotation of Martin actually refusing to give the asked refund or arguing about why not. Best regards, Matthias - Original Message - From: Mark's Meteorites m...@meteorites.cc To: Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de Cc: nav...@intelius.com; 'MexicoDoug' mexicod...@aim.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged illegal behavior To me it sounds like someone has, at best, been naive and not done their homework. Caveat emptor applies when you're buying a pint of milk; it certainly applies if you're ponying up a quarter million bucks. A quarter million dollars on something, mail order, for something only viewed in photographs? For real? I think that this discussion should make people think carefully about their deals - both from whom they buy, and to whom they sell. Nonetheless - as Farmer says, either they did or they didn't refuse to refund. IF they didn't (minus a reasonable handling deduction) then they're in the wrong. Mark On 2 Aug 2011, at 15:19, Matthias Bärmann wrote: Mr. Jain wrote: I am very new to the meteorite collection ... 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification (...) He also wrote: I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesnâ•˙t look right to me (...) makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff (...) Sounds somehow strange, no? __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6344 (20110802) __ E-Mail wurde geprft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6344 (20110802) __ E-Mail wurde gepr�ft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged illegal behavior
Dear Naveen and List This is quite surreal... but no, not surreal anymore in our times. First, Naveen, no matter how big your wealth is, how can you buy anything for such an amount without seeing it, touching it... ?! (if this shocks you... read some Albert Einstein thoughts...) You could have flown to Europe or invited them to US for pennies in regard to the amount of the deal you are talking about ! I know, there was the refund policy ! Nevertheless... I am flabbergasted ! I don't know personally the 2 Germans involved, but being a follower on this list for many years, Martin seems all but far away from a crook. Now 2 OTs, and this in the same pursuit as yours in ethical manners and philosophy: (I could have sent you these questions privately, but as Anne Black said, you put her private emails on this list, without her knowledge and/or consent, so be it...) 1- how do you combine hoping to mine resources from the Moon (your Moon Express adventure) and touting yourself a philanthropist ? Sounds contradictory to me. Please let me know where I am wrong on this. 2- having lived many years in USA, and looking at your other creation, Intelius, Why can't I see what information is collected on me there, without having to pay for it ? Is that ethical ? Not sure about it... ultimately... Anyway, I hope your matter will be resolved, but would very much like you to answer my 2 last points. (privately or on the List) Thank you... Ethically yours... Michael Brosse __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged illegal behavior
I know there must be another side to this story. I sure would like to hear Stefan and Martin's response, though I can understand their reticence to speak up, under threat of litigation. I won't add to the speculation, except to note that the overwhelming number of List members posting in defense of Chladni's Heirs speaks volumes about their reputation in the community. Doug Ross __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged illegal behavior
I was going to hold my tongue about recent issues, including this one. I offer only this quote, and make no additional comment, input or opinion other than all of this is very disturbing in such a tiny community... Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing. ABRAHAM LINCOLN, Lincoln's Own Stories -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: Doug Ross d...@dougross.net To: Meteorite List List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged illegal behavior I know there must be another side to this story. I sure would like to hear Stefan and Martin's response, though I can understand their reticence to speak up, under threat of litigation. I won't add to the speculation, except to note that the overwhelming number of List members posting in defense of Chladni's Heirs speaks volumes about their reputation in the community. Doug Ross __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
