Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-20 Thread Eric Furman
Of course this is all useless to the O.P. because you didn't include a link to a HOWTO. On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:04 +0200, Raimo Niskanen raimo+open...@erix.ericsson.se wrote: On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 06:59:25PM +0800, shweg...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 19 Apr 2010, Raimo Niskanen wrote: On

Re: OpenBSD Culture? - dual boot info

2010-04-19 Thread Andres Genovez
2010/4/18 Kim 4secure...@neomailbox.net @ Zachary fwiw - I have Windows XP, Linux, and OpenBSD running on one machine using two drives, but it should be possible with one. I would recommend installing Windows first, or if already installed, shrink the partition using Ranish partition

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-19 Thread Raimo Niskanen
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 08:48:26AM +0800, shweg...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, J Sisson wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:28 AM, trustlevel-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: You can actually have MANY more than 4 OS on one drive, but it does get rather complicated and not worth the effort

Multibooting (was : OpenBSD culture)

2010-04-19 Thread Peter Kay (Syllopsium)
OpenBSD does not require a primary partition, nor does NetBSD. Solaris does for the moment, although code to fix that has been committed. I have a Windows 7 x64, OpenBSD, Solaris, NetBSD multiboot. It's not that difficult to arrange. I did most of the partitioning in Windows, setting up a

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-19 Thread shwegime
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010, Raimo Niskanen wrote: On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 08:48:26AM +0800, shweg...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, J Sisson wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:28 AM, trustlevel-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: You can actually have MANY more than 4 OS on one drive, but it does get

Re: Multibooting (was : OpenBSD culture)

2010-04-19 Thread Brad Tilley
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:07 +0100, Peter Kay (Syllopsium) syllops...@syllopsium.com wrote: OpenBSD does not require a primary partition, nor does NetBSD. Solaris does for the moment, although code to fix that has been committed. I have a Windows 7 x64, OpenBSD, Solaris, NetBSD multiboot.

Re: Multibooting (was : OpenBSD culture)

2010-04-19 Thread Peter Kay (Syllopsium)
From: Brad Tilley b...@16systems.com as appropriate if you're using grub etc or XP.. Another Option. Assuming a i386 or amd64 PC: 1. Put another hard drive into the computer. 2. Go into the BIOS and make the new hard drive have higher priority. 3. Boot the computer and install OpenBSD onto

Re: Multibooting (was : OpenBSD culture)

2010-04-19 Thread Chris Bennett
On 04/19/10 07:13, Brad Tilley wrote: On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:07 +0100, Peter Kay (Syllopsium) syllops...@syllopsium.com wrote: OpenBSD does not require a primary partition, nor does NetBSD. Solaris does for the moment, although code to fix that has been committed. I have a Windows 7 x64,

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-19 Thread Raimo Niskanen
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 06:59:25PM +0800, shweg...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 19 Apr 2010, Raimo Niskanen wrote: On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 08:48:26AM +0800, shweg...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, J Sisson wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:28 AM, trustlevel-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: You

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-19 Thread Siju George
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 2:59 AM, shweg...@gmail.com wrote: Of course I boot using the Vista bootloader and easybcd to edit the configuration, which saves a lot of headache. The important thing is it can be done. :) How Do you Tell the OpenBSD Installer to install to a logical partition?

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-19 Thread Peter Kay (Syllopsium)
From: Siju George sgeorge...@gmail.com On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 2:59 AM, shweg...@gmail.com wrote: Of course I boot using the Vista bootloader and easybcd to edit the configuration, which saves a lot of headache. The important thing is it can be done. :) How Do you Tell the OpenBSD

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-19 Thread Duncan Patton a Campbell
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:52:36 -0400 Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Donald Allen wrote: After getting subjected to some of this nonsense personally, having asked a question on openbsd-tech (and was in the midst of a useful exchange with Bob Beck until it was interrupted out of

Re: OpenBSD Culture? - dual boot info

2010-04-18 Thread Kim
@ Zachary fwiw - I have Windows XP, Linux, and OpenBSD running on one machine using two drives, but it should be possible with one. I would recommend installing Windows first, or if already installed, shrink the partition using Ranish partition manager or Parted Magic. Create two new primary

Re: OpenBSD Culture? - dual boot info

2010-04-18 Thread Pau
http://www.aei.mpg.de/~pau/zen_process_obsd.html 2010/4/18 Kim 4secure...@neomailbox.net: @ Zachary fwiw - I have Windows XP, Linux, and OpenBSD running on one machine using two drives, but it should be possible with one. I would recommend installing Windows first, or if already installed,

Re: OpenBSD Culture? - dual boot info

2010-04-18 Thread Super Biscuit
: OpenBSD Culture? - dual boot info To: misc@openbsd.org Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 7:24 AM @ Zachary fwiw - I have Windows XP, Linux, and OpenBSD running on one machine using two drives, but it should be possible with one. I would recommend installing Windows first, or if already installed, shrink

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread André
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52:36AM -0400, Donald Allen wrote: accumulation of discomfort about the behavior of this community. It's not about a COMMUNITY here. It's about an OS and good code. If you want am smooth, senseless

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Eric Furman
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Matthias Kilian k...@outback.escape.de wrote: What detail in the original reply Theo sent to the OP (and quoted it later on this list) was rude? The lack of an answer. He could have said Yes. Check your nearest search engine for details. Which would have

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Artur Grabowski
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a *lot* older than nine. Yet you still believe that it's ok for guests to tell the hosts how to behave in their home. Amazing. What culture are you from? //art

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Siju George
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Chris Dukes pak...@pr.neotoma.org wrote: Multibooting is having several operating systems on one computer, and some means of selecting which OS is to boot. It is not a trivial task! If you don't understand what you are doing, you may end up deleting large

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Daniel Gracia Garallar
on their own if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture? Zach http://www.fidei.org

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Donald Allen
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:16 AM, Artur Grabowski a...@blahonga.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a *lot* older than nine. Yet you still believe that it's ok for guests to tell the hosts how to behave in

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Tony Abernethy
Donald Allen wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:16 AM, Artur Grabowski a...@blahonga.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a *lot* older than nine. Yet you still believe that it's ok for guests to tell

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Donald Allen
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Tony Abernethy t...@servasoftware.com wrote: Donald Allen wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:16 AM, Artur Grabowski a...@blahonga.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Stas Miasnikou
Donald Allen wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Tony Abernethy t...@servasoftware.com wrote: Donald Allen wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:16 AM, Artur Grabowski a...@blahonga.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Vijay Sankar
Donald Allen wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:16 AM, Artur Grabowski a...@blahonga.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a *lot* older than nine. Yet you still believe that it's ok for guests to tell the

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Ted Roby
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Vijay Sankar vsan...@foretell.ca wrote: Regardless of your standards of etiquette that anyone may have violated, it is a shame that you would drop financial support for the OpenBSD project. It is especially unfair because there is nothing a developer can do

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Tony Abernethy
Donald Allen wrote: So you believe civility and correctness are mutually exclusive? Interesting. Hardly, but if I am given a choice, I will take correctness. You seem to be under the impression that either correctness is irrelevant or that somehow civility implies correctness. As for mutual

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Marc Espie
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 04:16:08PM +0800, Artur Grabowski wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a *lot* older than nine. Yet you still believe that it's ok for guests to tell the hosts how to behave in their

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Ted Roby
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Marc Espie es...@nerim.net wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 04:16:08PM +0800, Artur Grabowski wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the compliment, but I'm a *lot* older than nine. Yet you still

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Marc Espie
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 08:37:18AM -0600, Ted Roby wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Marc Espie es...@nerim.net wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 04:16:08PM +0800, Artur Grabowski wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Donald Allen donaldcal...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Ted Roby
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Marc Espie es...@nerim.net wrote: yeah, you can also find culture in petri dishes, you know... ;-) and Theo's counter? (still more trolling) *snag* (how can one take this thread seriously ?) You can't, if you take it correctly! At least pink noise

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Chris Dukes
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 03:26:14PM +0530, Siju George wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Chris Dukes pak...@pr.neotoma.org wrote: Multibooting is having several operating systems on one computer, and some means of selecting which OS is to boot. It is not a trivial task! If you

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread trustlevel-two
Now I'm seeing new PCs with. 1) Primary partition for the M$ equivalent of /boot 2) Primary partition with the main M$ install 3) Primary partition with the recovery bits. Install Linux and that 4th primary partition becomes the extended partition. No place for OpenBSD. You can actually

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread J Sisson
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:28 AM, trustlevel-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: You can actually have MANY more than 4 OS on one drive, but it does get rather complicated and not worth the effort which certainly wouldn't help here. The point was that OpenBSD requires a primary partition.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Jacob Meuser
= Your analogy doesn't go far enough. Better: guests in a home being asked for contributions and also being insulted, both by the hosts. Guess it depends on your recent culture, I can recall many times when me and my

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Ted Roby
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Jacob Meuser jake...@sdf.lonestar.orgwrote: = Your analogy doesn't go far enough. Better: guests in a home being asked for contributions and also being insulted, both by the hosts.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread Steve Shockley
On 4/16/2010 10:57 AM, Marc Espie wrote: (yo, your momma used to suck dead Stallmans through straws) I find this highly insulting. used to, indeed.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-16 Thread shwegime
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, J Sisson wrote: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:28 AM, trustlevel-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: You can actually have MANY more than 4 OS on one drive, but it does get rather complicated and not worth the effort which certainly wouldn't help here. The point was that OpenBSD

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Artur Grabowski
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Marco, instead of complaining about GNU, GPL, FSF, Linux, etc. Why don't you write some code instead? I know it's a strange concept. Hehehe. A funny hippie. //art

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Scott McEachern
On 04/15/10 01:39, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: Fascinating. I predicted Peereboom would post the same old rant. My fix has nothing to do with childish attitude or being more nerdy than you. It has everything do with GNU's twisted definition of freedom. Yet, that's YOUR

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Tomas Bodzar
Eh? Was it irony? I suppose that not and you need to learn A LOT about who is Marco ;-) On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 1:39 PM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Marco, instead of complaining about GNU, GPL, FSF, Linux, etc. Why don't you write some code instead? I know it's a

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
Eh? Was it irony? I suppose that not and you need to learn A LOT about who is Marco ;-) Search for Strange concept on marc.info.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
Then apply some logical thinking yourself, and quit drinking Stallman's kool-aid. Funny. How many restrictions are in the BSD and ISC licenses? For all intents and purposes, one: keep the copyright message intact. Otherwise, *free* to do with as you please. That's a fact.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Tomas Bodzar
http://marc.info/?w=2r=1s=%22Strange+concept%22q=t and? On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 9:37 AM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Eh? Was it irony? I suppose that not and you need to learn A LOT about who is Marco ;-) Search for Strange concept on marc.info.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Michal
On 14/04/2010 19:27, J Sisson wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Matthias Kilian k...@outback.escape.de wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:38:56PM -0500, Ron McDowell wrote: Yup, nowhere in that goals page does it say anything about don't be rude to the casual users. Maybe that is why

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread David Coppa
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 9:35 AM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: The fact that I'm not a developer does not means I should remain in silence. The general approach there has always been: Shut up and hack! -dav

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Jacob Meuser
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 04:35:36AM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: That's because I don't yell GPL is not free while I'm using GPL. what's wrong with that? if I use Windows and yell Windows is not free, would you think the same? I'm curious, what freedom do you think the GPL brings to

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread trustlevel-two
If you define freedom by the number of restrictions, then the only free license would be no license at all. Public domain. No copyright. Thus no restrictions. No ALL CAPs notices. Not even crediting the original developers. So you think that giving people the freedom to know where the code

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread - Tethys
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Matthias Kilian k...@outback.escape.de wrote: What detail in the original reply Theo sent to the OP (and quoted it later on this list) was rude? The lack of an answer. He could have said Yes. Check your nearest search engine for details. Which would have

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Leonardo Carneiro - Veltrac
, and OpenBSD culture is when Theo forgets something on the kitchen counter and doesn't put it back in the fridge before leaving town for a hike.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Marco Peereboom
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 02:39:29AM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: Fascinating. I predicted Peereboom would post the same old rant. My fix has nothing to do with childish attitude or being more nerdy than you. It has everything do with GNU's twisted definition of freedom.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Eric Furman
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:35 -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Then apply some logical thinking yourself, and quit drinking Stallman's kool-aid. Funny. He just spoke TRUTH, Your ilk is unfamiliar with that and its concept. How many restrictions are in the BSD

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Eric Furman
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:38 +0100, - Tethys tet...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Matthias Kilian k...@outback.escape.de wrote: What detail in the original reply Theo sent to the OP (and quoted it later on this list) was rude? The lack of an answer. He could have said

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Ted Roby
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:49 AM, trustlevel-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: So you think that giving people the freedom to know where the code has come from to allow them to not get conned and not use old, possibly insecure code and giving them the ability to contribute to the original source of the

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Donald Allen
[begin quote] On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Matthias Kilian k...@outback.escape.de wrote: What detail in the original reply Theo sent to the OP (and quoted it later on this list) was rude? The lack of an answer. He could have said Yes. Check your nearest search engine for details. Which

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Stas Miasnikou
Donald Allen wrote: After getting subjected to some of this nonsense personally, having asked a question on openbsd-tech (and was in the midst of a useful exchange with Bob Beck until it was interrupted out of the blue by someone who apparently enjoys behaving like an unruly 10-year-old; it had

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Donald Allen
Donald Allen wrote: After getting subjected to some of this nonsense personally, having asked a question on openbsd-tech (and was in the midst of a useful exchange with Bob Beck until it was interrupted out of the blue by someone who apparently enjoys behaving like an unruly 10-year-old; it

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
That's because I don't yell GPL is not free while I'm using GPL. what's wrong with that? if I use Windows and yell Windows is not free, would you think the same? If you were insulting a Windows user, probably. I'm curious, what freedom do you think the GPL brings to those people who use

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Brandon LaRocque
For them? Maybe the freedom to give copies to their friends whithout being sued or doing anything illegal. That can easily be applied to any of the free licenses without any other legal obligations.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
Lets try it. 0 X (Y + Z) Y 0 Z 0 ISC = X GPL = X + Y + Z Logical enough for you? If you assume that the definition of freedom is the number of restrictions, then neither ISC nor GPL are free. The only free license would be no license at all. Public domain. Since _my_ definition of

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
For them? Maybe the freedom to give copies to their friends whithout being sued or doing anything illegal. That can easily be applied to any of the free licenses without any other legal obligations. Yes! Because they are all free (in _my_ opinion). I like GPL, ISC, BSD, all of them.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Marco Peereboom
See I told you logic wouldn't work for you. The dictionary definition of freedom is no restrictions therefore more restriction is less free. Not sure how you can argue that. ISC has one restriction, the GPL has numerous therefore less free. Again not sure how this is debatable. If you prefer

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
The dictionary definition of freedom is no restrictions NO RESTRICTIONS May I point out to you that ISC has restrictions. You are contradicting yourself. Logic works the same for everyone, since it's an abstract field, but apparently you did not study it.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Henry Sieff
I work with a lot of systems integrator types - they deliver finished platforms to run apps we develop on. A lot of familiarity with Solaris and Centos. One day, a couple of load balancers died and one of them needed a quick solution so I tossed them my 4.6 cd and sent them a link to man for

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Tony Abernethy
VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: Logic works the same for everyone, since it's an abstract field, but apparently you did not study it. It weems that you did not learn it.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Marco Peereboom
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:14:56AM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: The dictionary definition of freedom is no restrictions NO RESTRICTIONS May I point out to you that ISC has restrictions. You are contradicting yourself. The ISC has one restriction and I never claimed otherwise.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Tony Abernethy
Marco Peereboom wrote: See I told you logic wouldn't work for you. snip Since _my_ definition of freedom for software is different, I reach different conclusions. Right. It didn't.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:02:23AM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: Lets try it. 0 X (Y + Z) Y 0 Z 0 ISC = X GPL = X + Y + Z Logical enough for you? If you assume that the definition of freedom is the number of restrictions, then neither ISC nor GPL are free.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Igor Sobrado
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 5:05 AM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: For them? Maybe the freedom to give copies to their friends whithout being sued or doing anything illegal. That can easily be applied to any of the free licenses without any other legal obligations. Yes!

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Ted Roby
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 9:02 PM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Lets try it. 0 X (Y + Z) Y 0 Z 0 ISC = X GPL = X + Y + Z Logical enough for you? If you assume that the definition of freedom is the number of restrictions, then neither ISC nor GPL

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Scott McEachern
On 04/15/10 23:14, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: The dictionary definition of freedom is no restrictions NO RESTRICTIONS May I point out to you that ISC has restrictions. You are contradicting yourself. Logic works the same for everyone, since it's an abstract field, but apparently

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Ted Roby
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Otto Moerbeek o...@drijf.net wrote: You do not seem to understand how copyright works. When published, a work is subject to a set of restrictions, laid down by copyright law. A license grants rights (under conditions or restrictions) to the receiver of a

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Chris Dukes
attitude that smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture? Zach, Theo was much more civil to you than I expected. I've been watching OpenBSD since around 1998, and using it in various projects since around 2001. I came to be using OpenBSD

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Darrin Chandler
What if I release my work as Anonymous with no text in regards to licensing? Then nobody knows who owns the code, and lack of license goes to the default case of ALL Rights Reserved. Does anyone wanting to use that work in OpenBSD actually have to track down who Anonymous was? Does the code

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:55:11AM -0600, Ted Roby wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Otto Moerbeek o...@drijf.net wrote: You do not seem to understand how copyright works. When published, a work is subject to a set of restrictions, laid down by copyright law. A license grants

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Ted Roby
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Otto Moerbeek o...@drijf.net wrote: Yes, it's a tricky question. As for OpenBSD, we do not include anonymous work. A work can be public domain if the copyright expires. In some jurisdictions, a work can be put into the public domain by the author. If a

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Chris Dukes
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 09:15:39AM -0700, Henry Sieff wrote: I work with a lot of systems integrator types - they deliver finished platforms to run apps we develop on. A lot of familiarity with Solaris and Centos. One day, a couple of load balancers died and one of them needed a quick solution

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Henry Sieff
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Chris Dukes pak...@pr.neotoma.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 09:15:39AM -0700, Henry Sieff wrote: [SNIP] Unfortunately, for many of us the end goal is to get a pile of crap, as dictated by management, working well enough that we get another paycheck.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
Now this is interesting... Does anything supersede Copyright Law? What if I release my work as Anonymous with no text in regards to licensing? Does anyone wanting to use that work in OpenBSD actually have to track down who Anonymous was? Does the code become useless if its ownership

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
You do not seem to understand how copyright works. When published, a work is subject to a set of restrictions, laid down by copyright law. A license grants rights (under conditions or restrictions) to the receiver of a work. No license means no extra rights, which means the default defined

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
I think the best example is Free as in Beer. Which already misses the point. I can brew beer all day. I can keep it to myself. I can also share it. If I share a beer with you, it is free. (I am giving it to you) If you sell it to me it's also free. You are missing the point. If I

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Ted Roby
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 1:13 AM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Now this is interesting... Does anything supersede Copyright Law? What if I release my work as Anonymous with no text in regards to licensing? Does anyone wanting to use that work in OpenBSD

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Ted Roby
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 1:05 AM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: I think the best example is Free as in Beer. Which already misses the point. That's why the example is so common? It's in quotes because I didn't originate it. I can brew beer all day. I can

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Theo de Raadt
I don't know for certain, but I believe that in the United States a work whithout copyright notices goes to the public domain after 25 years. I don't know for certain, but I believe you are just making things up as you go along, because you are nothing but a troll.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Ted Unangst
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_copyright_law#Duration_of_copyright On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 3:13 AM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Now this is interesting... Does anything supersede Copyright Law? What if I release my work as Anonymous with no text in regards

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_copyright_law#Duration_of_copyright From http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm 1923 through 1977 Published without a copyright notice None. In the public domain due to failure to comply

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Chris Dukes
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:59:57AM -0700, Henry Sieff wrote: Oh, absolutely - hence the proliferation of Linux and Solaris in our solutions - the customer insists on oracle for the back-end db, they get oracle. And as you say, that can be driven by the arbitrary demands of the customer

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
The ISC has one restriction and I never claimed otherwise. The GPL has MORE restrictions. I am not contradicting myself. You just want to change the dictionary to match your little reality. You are contradicting yourself. On your terms: Axioms: 1 Freedom means no restrictions 2 ISC has

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Ted Roby
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:20 AM, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: The ISC has one restriction and I never claimed otherwise. The GPL has MORE restrictions. I am not contradicting myself. You just want to change the dictionary to match your little reality. You are

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Marco Peereboom
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah you love to hear yourself speak, eh? On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 05:20:45AM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: The ISC has one restriction and I never claimed otherwise. The GPL has MORE

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Brad Tilley
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 05:20 -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO vt...@c3sl.ufpr.br wrote: Saying that ISC is more free than GPL makes no sense Saying Do not remove our text does not restrict your freedom. That's all the ISC asks of you. Leave the copyright notice and the permission to use alone.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Nikolai Fetissov
Would you freaking stop this? Go hug Stallman or something. It's not entertaining anymore. The ISC has one restriction and I never claimed otherwise. The GPL has MORE restrictions. I am not contradicting myself. You just want to change the dictionary to match your little reality. You

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO
Saying that ISC is more free than GPL makes no sense Saying Do not remove our text does not restrict your freedom. That's all the ISC asks of you. Leave the copyright notice and the permission to use alone. Please do not take my mesages out of context. Removing sentences, and twisting what

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Jacob Meuser
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:39:57PM -0300, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: That's because I don't yell GPL is not free while I'm using GPL. what's wrong with that? if I use Windows and yell Windows is not free, would you think the same? If you were insulting a Windows user, probably.

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Tony Abernethy
VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: Please do not take my mesages out of context. Removing sentences, and twisting what I said can be very convenient to put me in the wrong whithout factual evidence. I do not please. Since no message can be completely within context, that implies that your are

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-15 Thread Antoine Jacoutot
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010, VICTOR TARABOLA CORTIANO wrote: I'm reasoning. I'm not bombing your house. Good morning in the Lord. Religious fanatics don't automatically bomb a house, some create museum. -- Antoine

OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-14 Thread Zachary Uram
. Is this a fair assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture? Zach http://www.fidei.org

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-14 Thread Bret S. Lambert
. I must say I detect a certain attitude that smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture? Zach http://www.fidei.org

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-14 Thread Sergey Bronnikov
if possible. I must say I detect a certain attitude that smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture? Zach http://www.fidei.org -- sergeyb@

Re: OpenBSD culture?

2010-04-14 Thread SJP Lists
attitude that smacks of superiority and even condescension at times. Is this a fair assessment of 6the OpenBSD culture? Zach The developers don't make OpenBSD for you, but they are good enough to give away the fruits of those efforts for free. You think people work hard on the code

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