On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 15:36:42 +
Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
> Thanks everyone for recommendations, I think I am just going to use
> VimOutliner for development and outlining. The use case I have is for
> a novel which should require less formatting than a technical book,
> so I should be able
Joe Davis wrote
>> Some writers swear on Scrivener. It's proprietary and Mac/Win only,
>> though.
>
> Manuskript[1] looks promising as a foss alternative. Haven't attempted
> to build it on OpenBSD. None of the dependencies look to be a major
> problem.
>
> Cheers,
> Joe
>
> [1]:
> Some writers swear on Scrivener. It's proprietary and Mac/Win only, though.
Manuskript[1] looks promising as a foss alternative. Haven't attempted
to build it on OpenBSD. None of the dependencies look to be a major
problem.
Cheers,
Joe
[1]: http://www.theologeek.ch/manuskript/
On 2019-11-02 11:14, Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen wrote:
2. nov. 2019 kl. 16:00 skrev Oliver Leaver-Smith :
What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I
mean long form such as novels and technical books, including plot and
character development, outlining, and
Am Sa., 2. Nov. 2019 um 16:06 Uhr schrieb Oliver Leaver-Smith
:
> What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I mean
> long form such as novels and technical books, including plot and character
> development, outlining, and formatting for publishing (not all the same
>
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019, Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
The use case I have is for a novel which should require less formatting
than a technical book, so I should be able to retrofit that after once
I have investigated the many tools mentioned in the thread.
Plain TeX would mean in that case a
Hi,
As an alternative to LaTeX, especially if you design the book,
you may give ConTeXt a chance. Just several elements of
comparison with LaTeX
Cons:
* quite hard learning-curve
* documentation is hard to find a the beginning.
The reference manual is not maintained any more.
Things are
Thanks everyone for recommendations, I think I am just going to use VimOutliner
for development and outlining. The use case I have is for a novel which should
require less formatting than a technical book, so I should be able to retrofit
that after once I have investigated the many tools
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 06:38:52PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> > If you write documentation, just use the best format in the first
> > place. If the project you are documenting allows checking in
> > documentation in mdoc(7) format, use that.
>
> TL/DR SUMMARY: mdoc(7) is cool, but based on an
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 06, 2019 at 08:43:18AM +0100, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> Steve Litt wrote on Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 06:38:52PM -0500:
> > On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 18:38:03 +0100 > Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> >> Andrew wrote on Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:56:58PM +:
>
> >> [ Pandoc ]
> >>> is one
> With the exception of perlpod(1)/pod2man(1), most programs that
good to know as i'm really confortable with pod.
> page formatting. scdoc(1) is not an exception; the output code
> quality is poor indeed
> * stray .P before and after .SH
> ...
this list is really interesting. maybe it should
Hi Marc,
Marc Chantreux wrote on Wed, Nov 06, 2019 at 08:42:28AM +0100:
> let me ruin your day: are you aware of scdoc?
> https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/scdoc
Yes, i think i tripped over it before, once.
> i really appreciated reading about you opinion. thank you.
I think the basic idea is a
Hi Steve,
Steve Litt wrote on Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 06:38:52PM -0500:
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 18:38:03 +0100 > Ingo Schwarze wrote:
>> Andrew wrote on Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:56:58PM +:
>> [ Pandoc ]
>>> is one of the most useful tools I have ever used. If you are
>>> writing any sort of
hello,
> https://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan18-mandoc.pdf
which leds me to the conference video. it was really interesting.
> Nothing is wrong with trying to make things simple for users, quite
> to the contrary. But that is not an excuse for delivering solutions
> that are technically
Hi,
Martijn van Duren wrote on Wed, Nov 06, 2019 at 06:40:51AM +0100:
> On 11/6/19 12:07 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 23:12:52 +0100
>>> https://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan18-mandoc.pdf
>> If the preceding presentation was authored in mdoc(7), could you please
>> post the mdoc
On 11/6/19 12:07 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 23:12:52 +0100
> Ingo Schwarze wrote:
>
>
>> https://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan18-mandoc.pdf
>
> If the preceding presentation was authored in mdoc(7), could you please
> post the mdoc code that created it, and the mandoc(1)
Dear Ingo,
> Could I have a copy of the source text file of the presentation and the
> command line(s) that produced the PDF file?
I found it: https://www.openbsd.org/papers/eurobsdcon2018-mandoc.roff
Yours sincerely,
Xianwen
Dear Ingo,
> The following presentation also contains a few related remarks
> on pages 32-34, especially on page 33:
>
> https://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan18-mandoc.pdf
I read through the entire presentation for the sake of seeing what kind
of presentation mdoc could produce. The presentation
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 18:38:03 +0100
Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Andrew wrote on Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:56:58PM +:
>
> [ Pandoc ]
> > is one of the most useful tools I have ever used. If you are
> > writing any sort of documentation then I *highly* recommend
> > checking it out
>
> I
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 23:12:52 +0100
Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> https://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan18-mandoc.pdf
If the preceding presentation was authored in mdoc(7), could you please
post the mdoc code that created it, and the mandoc(1) command and any
filter programs that caused it to be a
Marc Chantreux wrote on Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 07:56:03PM +0100:
> can you explain us what's so wrong with keeping
> simple things simple the way markdown allows us?
https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article=20170304230520
The following presentation also contains a few related remarks
on pages
> > > documentation language, mdoc(7), at all, neither for input nor for
> > > output, already makes me raise an eyebrow or two
> Vim has many useful HTML plugins (or write your own)
yes ... but why should i bother with an uggly distracting format when
i can have a format that is close visually
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 07:56:03PM +0100, Marc Chantreux wrote:
>
> there is no problem with other formats but can't you admit that for many
> people, something like
>
> * denis
> * brian
> * doug
>
> is easier to write, read and edit than << ?
>
>
> denis
> brian
> doug
>
>
>
On 05/11/2019 17:38, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
Hi,
Hello Ingo!
Andrew wrote on Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:56:58PM +:
[ Pandoc ]
is one of the most useful tools I have ever used. If you are writing
any sort of documentation then I *highly* recommend checking it out
I strongly oppose that
hello,
> > that said: i'll really give troff a try again when i will figure out how
> > to create templates for the documents i need (as i said in a previous
> > message: i have a layout problem)
>
> First mention of templates in this four dozen message thread.
i replied to this thread but as
Am Mo., 4. Nov. 2019 um 09:39 Uhr schrieb Roderick :
> TeX produces dvi, a well documented and simple page description language.
> Then it is transformed to postscript or pdf.
Nope. pdfTeX was developed 25 years ago, LuaTeX 12 years ago. Both
write PDF directly.
Best
Martin
On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:58 PM Marc Chantreux wrote:
> yes ... what's the point of using another format than postscript
> directly. ...
That's not a really question (nor does it fit here).
> that said: i'll really give troff a try again when i will figure out how
> to create templates for the
Hi Ingo
Many thanks for your inputs concerning older, but interesting tools
g/t-roff and refer(1). I didnt know them before.
-oliver
On 3 Nov 2019, at 16:41, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
Hello,
Xianwen Chen wrote on Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 04:16:43PM +0100:
I am interested in giving _groff_ and
hello,
> > is one of the most useful tools I have ever used. If you are writing
> > any sort of documentation then I *highly* recommend checking it out
> I strongly oppose that point. There is no need at all to bother
> with pandoc when you write documentation. (It may be useful for
> other
Hi,
Andrew wrote on Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 12:56:58PM +:
[ Pandoc ]
> is one of the most useful tools I have ever used. If you are writing
> any sort of documentation then I *highly* recommend checking it out
I strongly oppose that point. There is no need at all to bother
with pandoc when
On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 02:06:35AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> I know what you mean and you're right to a degree, but I'm currently
> writing a couple of books with AsciiDoctor edited in Vim. And I use
> VimOutliner for outlining. I'll try to remember and let you know when I
> actually finish
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 09:07:13 +
Yon wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 02:27:38AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> > I'm not sure, but I think if you write with a certain subset of
> > TeX, it would be fairly easy to write a program to convert it to
> > XHTML5, from which you can pretty easily create
On 04 Nov 2019, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> So after writing the whole thing, you're going to go back and insert
> some sorts of codes for backstory paragraphs, emphasis, dialog, and
> various other styles?
>
> How are you going to get word-wrap right?
>
> I know it's possible with novels, but it
On 02 Nov 2019, Raymond, David wrote:
> You might try lyx. This is a front end for latex. You can write
> without worrying about formatting and come back to that later. Also,
> when you do the formatting, you don't have to worry about niggling
> details as in word and its clones. Just declare
On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 02:27:38AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> I'm not sure, but I think if you write with a certain subset of TeX, it
> would be fairly easy to write a program to convert it to XHTML5, from
> which you can pretty easily create ePubs. Plain TeX as made by Knuth is
> indeed simple
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019, Steve Litt wrote:
[...] If you can even conceive of it being ePub or some
other lineflow reading format, Texlive and all the TeX/LaTeX
tools dead-end you.
TeX produces dvi, a well documented and simple page description language.
Then it is transformed to postscript or
Texlive is great if you're certain your output will be now and forever
only in PDF format. If you can even conceive of it being ePub or some
other lineflow reading format, Texlive and all the TeX/LaTeX
tools dead-end you.
SteveT
Steve Litt
November 2019 featured book: Manager's Guide to
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 15:16:22 -0400
STeve Andre' wrote:
> On 2019-11-02 15:07, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 03:04:34PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2019-11-02 11:00, Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> What tools do people find useful for
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 18:50:56 + (UTC)
Roderick wrote:
> Here is an old system, written in FORTRAN and C, perhaps compiles in
> OpenBSD:
>
> http://www.tustep.uni-tuebingen.de/tustep_eng.html
>
> But I never used it and I am hyppy with TeX.
>
> Rodrigo
>
I'm not sure, but I think if you
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 20:07:39 +0100
Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 03:04:34PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 2019-11-02 11:00, Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By
> > > writing I mean
On 2019-11-02 18:29, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
Hi Jordan,
Jordan Geoghegan wrote on Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 05:44:23PM -0700:
I've thought about learning latex and mandoc and all the fancy
tools, but I've just never gotten around to it.
Actually, both mandoc(1) and mdoc(7) are off-topic in this
Maybe have a look at Asciidoctor[1]. It's a plain text markup language
and
fast parser/converter with ruby as its sole dependency.
The language is easy to write, very easy to read and doesn't get in
your way. It's similar to Markdown but much more potent, well-rounded
and extensible if
Dear Mr. Péter,
Thank you!
> I installed it via cabal, but you need a little workaround, since a W^X
> allowed partition is required for the build There are some articles
> online which I followed and created a cabal directory in /usr/local
> (which is wxallowed) and mounted it in my $HOME as
Xianwen Chen (陈贤文) [2019-11-03 13:44:20 +0100]:
> Does _pandoc_ work on OpenBSD now?
I can confirm that pandoc works on OpenBSD as I have built it a few
months ago. However, it wasn't a painless procedure.
I installed it via cabal, but you need a little workaround, since a W^X
allowed partition
Here is an old system, written in FORTRAN and C, perhaps compiles in
OpenBSD:
http://www.tustep.uni-tuebingen.de/tustep_eng.html
But I never used it and I am hyppy with TeX.
Rodrigo
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
And finally, the only thing that is seriously wrong with
the "print/texlive" port is how ridiculously large it is.
That is "texlive". Donald Knuths TeX/mf is exactly the opposite to bloat.
Right. Thank you very much!
Ingo Schwarze writes:
> Hello,
>
> Xianwen Chen wrote on Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 04:16:43PM +0100:
>
>> I am interested in giving _groff_ and _gpresent_ a try. I am seasoned
>> LaTeX user. Is there a tutorial that you would recommend to someone like
>> me?
>
> No, i'm
> My substitute for _pandoc_ is the _org-mode_ of emacs, which is for some
> people also good for outlining etc.
if i quit using vim some day, it will be for something lightweight so
i'll never run emacs, i guess.
regards
marc
Hello,
Xianwen Chen wrote on Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 04:16:43PM +0100:
> I am interested in giving _groff_ and _gpresent_ a try. I am seasoned
> LaTeX user. Is there a tutorial that you would recommend to someone like
> me?
No, i'm not aware of tutorials (but i generally don't use tutorials,
so
Dear Mr. Schwarze,
> That said, the obvious answer for the OP is of course the
> "textproc/groff" port (disclosure: which i maintain). The roff(7)
> language and the troff programm is what people in the UNIX world
> always used for writing books and journal articles, and it is very
> much alive
On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 01:44:20PM +0100, Xianwen Chen (陈贤文) wrote:
> Dear Marc,
>
> > I wasn't talking about mandoc but pandoc (https://pandoc.org/): you
> > write most of the things just using markdown format and add latex
> > instructions whenever you want. this way, you keep simple things
Dear Mr. Chantreux,
> i realized i haven't try on BSD as my desktop remains a linux for the
> moment. sorry i lost the focus because of this very appealing thread.
My substitute for _pandoc_ is the _org-mode_ of emacs, which is for some
people also good for outlining etc.
But I miss _pandoc_.
hello,
> Does _pandoc_ work on OpenBSD now?
i realized i haven't try on BSD as my desktop remains a linux for the
moment. sorry i lost the focus because of this very appealing thread.
regards
marc
On 03/11/2019 12:44, Xianwen Chen (陈贤文) wrote:
Does _pandoc_ work on OpenBSD now?
Pandoc doesn't work on OpenBSD? This is seriously a bit of a shock.
It is one of the most useful tools I have ever used. If you are writing
any sort of documentation then I *highly* recommend checking it out
Dear Marc,
> I wasn't talking about mandoc but pandoc (https://pandoc.org/): you
> write most of the things just using markdown format and add latex
> instructions whenever you want. this way, you keep simple things simple
> but you keep the power of latex under the wood.
Does _pandoc_ work on
> the "print/texlive" port is how ridiculously large it is.
because it comes with the whole distribution. i never tested but
https://tectonic-typesetting.github.io/ seems to fix it by downloading
stuff on demand. however, another problem with tex is performance.
troff is blazing fast. however...
Hi,
On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 02:29:02AM +0100, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> As long as you only *use* macro packages, groff is *much*
> easier to use than LaTeX (not least because the quality of
> documentation of groff is vastly superior to LaTeX, and LaTeX
> documentation is so extremely huge and
> documents, but for my use case, LibreOffice has treated me well. I primarily
> use it for simple things like putting together invoices, writing articles,
> rendering documents to PDF or postscript, and reading .docx files people
> send me.
> I'm sure there's a superior way to do all this,
I really like Markdown for actual writing, because its markup for logical
structure is quite low-key and non-distracting, and (unlike *roff or LaTeX)
it also reads pretty well in source form. Tables are fairly annoying,
particularly if I later have to insert a column in mid table.
Use whatever
Hello,
What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I
mean long form such as novels and technical books, including plot and
character development, outlining, and formatting for publishing (not all
the same application necessarily)
I agree with the majority of people
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 03:00:28PM +, Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing
> I mean long form such as novels and technical books, including plot
> and character development, outlining, and formatting for publishing
> (not
On 2019-11-02 11:00, Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I
> mean long form such as novels and technical books, including plot and
> character development, outlining, and formatting for publishing (not all
> the same
Hi Jordan,
Jordan Geoghegan wrote on Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 05:44:23PM -0700:
> I've thought about learning latex and mandoc and all the fancy
> tools, but I've just never gotten around to it.
Actually, both mandoc(1) and mdoc(7) are off-topic in this thread.
You cannot use either for writing a
On 2019-11-02 15:54, Marc Chantreux wrote:
hello,
You can't go wrong with LibreOffice. I've written thousands of pages over
the years with it. It may be too "heavy" for some, but for me, if I'm doing
something too complex for vi or mousepad, I just fire up LibreOffice.
to me there is no
hello,
> You can't go wrong with LibreOffice. I've written thousands of pages over
> the years with it. It may be too "heavy" for some, but for me, if I'm doing
> something too complex for vi or mousepad, I just fire up LibreOffice.
to me there is no such thing that is too complex for the unix
You might try lyx. This is a front end for latex. You can write
without worrying about formatting and come back to that later. Also,
when you do the formatting, you don't have to worry about niggling
details as in word and its clones. Just declare chapters, sections,
etc.
Lyx is an OpenBSD
On 2019-11-02 13:18, Chris Bennett wrote:
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 03:16:22PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote:
On 2019-11-02 15:07, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
You obviously never wrote a book.
At least not with the requirements OP asked for. >
Actually, I am, right now. I've found that "formatting"
>>> On 2 Nov 2019, at 19:17, STeve Andre' wrote:
On 2019-11-02 15:07, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 03:04:34PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote:
/usr/bin/vi
>>> You obviously never wrote a book.
>>> At least not with the requirements OP asked for. >
>> Actually, I am,
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 03:16:22PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote:
>
>
> On 2019-11-02 15:07, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
> > You obviously never wrote a book.
> > At least not with the requirements OP asked for. >
>
> Actually, I am, right now. I've found that "formatting" is an
> annoyance, when
On 2019-11-02 15:07, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 03:04:34PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote:
On 2019-11-02 11:00, Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
Hello,
What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I mean long
form such as novels and technical books,
> What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I mean
> long form such as novels and technical books, including plot and character
> development, outlining, and formatting for publishing (not all the same
> application necessarily)
>
Hi,
Not sure for plot and characters.
On Sat, Nov 02, 2019 at 03:04:34PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote:
>
>
> On 2019-11-02 11:00, Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I mean
> > long form such as novels and technical books, including plot and character
> >
On 2019-11-02 11:00, Oliver Leaver-Smith wrote:
Hello,
What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I mean long
form such as novels and technical books, including plot and character
development, outlining, and formatting for publishing (not all the same
application
Mr. Hansteen what are your thoughts on Texlive?
On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 9:16 AM Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen <
pe...@bsdly.net> wrote:
>
>
> > 2. nov. 2019 kl. 16:00 skrev Oliver Leaver-Smith :
> >
> > What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I
> mean long form such
> 2. nov. 2019 kl. 16:00 skrev Oliver Leaver-Smith :
>
> What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I mean
> long form such as novels and technical books, including plot and character
> development, outlining, and formatting for publishing (not all the same
>
For me OpenOffice works and of Focus Writer. I “won” NaNoWriMo using focus
writer.
On Saturday, November 2, 2019, Oliver Leaver-Smith
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I mean
> long form such as novels and technical books, including plot and
Hello,
What tools do people find useful for writing on OpenBSD? By writing I mean long
form such as novels and technical books, including plot and character
development, outlining, and formatting for publishing (not all the same
application necessarily)
I have found a number which boast Linux
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