First of all, I've been informed who Greg Oster is...a/the maintainer of
RAIDframe. So, let's start by acknowledging his superior knowledge in
the area (possibly a little bias, but his knowledge of this topic is to
be respected).
I am NOT A file system expert. I am barely file system aware.
On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 03:58:26PM -0500, Nick Holland wrote:
up toasting them, far from the end of the world. I can give you a very
good explaination (or several) for why a disk powered down mid-write
could be dammaged, it is really odd how RARELY this actually happens in
real life. I come
Greg Oster wrote:
...
Here's what I'd encourage you (or anyone else) to do:
actually, I'd encourage you do try your own test. Results were interesting.
1) Create a ccd as you describe in the HOWTO and mount the filesystem.
used my own instructions, if you don't mind. :)
Softdeps on. That
Nick Holland writes:
Greg Oster wrote:
...
Here's what I'd encourage you (or anyone else) to do:
actually, I'd encourage you do try your own test. Results were interesting.
Well... as we see, you did *your* version of the test, not mine ;)
1) Create a ccd as you describe in the HOWTO
I know of several people who ran software mirroring on Windows and they had
major problems with it along the lines that Greg described. I also know some
people that never had problems in a similar setup with OpenBSD. Prodded a
little more, they never had it crash so I guess sometimes being stable
Greg,
Again, you raise some interesting issues. I wonder how likely the
catastrophic failures you describe are, versus how likely it is that
things fail in a way where ccd actually helps you. I was hoping someone
else would comment on that, but that doesn't seem to have happened so
far.
So
Robbert Haarman writes:
Greg,
Again, you raise some interesting issues. I wonder how likely the
catastrophic failures you describe are, versus how likely it is that
things fail in a way where ccd actually helps you. I was hoping someone
else would comment on that, but that doesn't seem
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
Greg Oster
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:26 PM
To: Robbert Haarman
Cc: misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: Updated CCD Mirroring HOWTO
Robbert Haarman writes:
Greg,
Again, you raise some
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Robbert Haarman writes:
Greg,
Again, you raise some interesting issues. I
wonder how likely the
catastrophic failures you describe are, versus
how likely it is that
things fail in a way where ccd actually helps
you. I was hoping someone
else would comment on
In all these:
I'm going to take this thread for what I think it is... the old guard
telling us youngin's that our efforts are appreciated, but we've got a
bit more to learn about how things work, and how to write good
documentation, before we're really ready to jump into these things the
way we
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 01:58:04 +0100, frantisek holop [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
hmm, on Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 09:34:39AM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said that
Yes, OpenBSD is the _only_ operating system that takes security as
seriously as it should be taken. Consider the why of OpenBSD's
this is a
Daniel Ouellet wrote:
In all these:
I'm going to take this thread for what I think it is... the old guard
telling us youngin's that our efforts are appreciated, but we've got a
bit more to learn about how things work, and how to write good
documentation, before we're really ready to jump
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OpenBSD claims to be done for the benefit of its developers and every
indication that I've seen says that they mean exactly what they say.
True and nothing wrong with that.
Concerns of users are secondary at best.
The developers will help you if you have something
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:15:26 +0100, Robbert Haarman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear JCR,
To the rest of list users; Please pardon another long email from me on
this. Helping reasonable people like Robbert understand why many people
consider HOWTO's to be harmful is hopefully worth the added
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 17:52:51 +0100, Robbert Haarman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear list, especially Greg and Mickey,
I've updated the working copy of the CCD Mirroring HOWTO. In particular,
I've split off the comparison to software RAID into a separate section
and clarified that ccd does not do
Dear JCR,
Thank you for your informative message.
Things like HowTo documents, sites like openbsdsupport.org and lists
like openbsd-newbie@ are more often than not considered garbage. The
reason is simply because you are robbing the reader of the fundamental
and important details that the
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Robbert Haarman wrote:
The reason I wrote the HOWTO is that, in my opinion of course, the
manpages don't make it clear how to set things up. Searching the
archives for more information came up with some contradictory messages,
and some instances of people being misled
Robbert Haarman wrote:
If end-users are lazy and want to take the easy way out, they should
go back to using linux and MS-Windows. They are not welcome here.
That's a pity. I personally think OpenBSD is the _only_ operating system
that takes security as seriously as it should be taken,
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:34:39 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
J.C. Roberts wrote:
To the rest of list users; Please pardon another long email from me on
this. Helping reasonable people like Robbert understand why many people
consider HOWTO's to be harmful is hopefully worth the added noise and
J.C. Roberts wrote:
To the rest of list users; Please pardon another long email from me on
this. Helping reasonable people like Robbert understand why many people
consider HOWTO's to be harmful is hopefully worth the added noise and
bandwidth.
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:57:12 +0100, Robbert
J.C. Roberts wrote:
Both security and reliability are really nothing more than a byproduct
of correctness and well informed decisions.
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:34:39 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's the point.
Note the nothing more. And the byproduct.
If you throw away the
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:00:39 +, Michael Quaintance
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JCR,
/Please/ don't loose your verbosity.
For newbies like me, your lengthy descriptions of why the OpenBSD
community thinks like it does are incredibly useful. Short, pithy
explanations like Tony's are great for
J.C. Roberts wrote:
Please do not mistake me and my opinions for the opinions of the OpenBSD
community in general. OpenBSD users and developers actually thrive on
the conflict of differing opinions; a reasonably friendly competition to
figure out and prove both what works and what works best.
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:25:16 +, Michael Quaintance
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
J.C. Roberts wrote:
[snip]
I'm just a normal user who doesn't contribute a great deal to the
project, so there is a *HUGE* difference between me and the people who
actually have both the expertise and dedication
J.C. Roberts wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:00:39 +, Michael Quaintance
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JCR,
/Please/ don't loose your verbosity.
For newbies like me, your lengthy descriptions of why the OpenBSD
community thinks like it does are incredibly useful. Short, pithy
explanations
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:54:04 -0500, Chris Zakelj [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
J.C. Roberts wrote:
snip
I'm just a normal user who doesn't contribute a great deal to the
project, so there is a *HUGE* difference between me and the people who
actually have both the expertise and dedication needed to
hmm, on Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 09:34:39AM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said that
Yes, OpenBSD is the _only_ operating system that takes security as
seriously as it should be taken. Consider the why of OpenBSD's
this is a silly argument.
of course it is not the only system. don't think nobody else
Are you subscribed to newbies? We don't do the bullshit like the
HOWTOs or openbsdsupport.org. We teach you how to help yourself. The
answers come with learning, so you can be a better admin.
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:30:21 -0800
J.C. Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: Things like HowTo
Dear list, especially Greg and Mickey,
I've updated the working copy of the CCD Mirroring HOWTO. In particular,
I've split off the comparison to software RAID into a separate section
and clarified that ccd does not do automatic recovery, and I've
rewritten the section on labeling to state that
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